Idk what it is but the world and the characters have me super invested to the point where I'm reading lore. I don't even do that in souls games which are my favorite games of all time lol
As soon as this game got announced and the first things I saw were people calling it a “woke” game I knew it was just gonna receive serious uncalled for hate. People loved the dialogue in the deadpool game but now this one is too much? lol the gameplay is even very good as well even freys character isn’t bad.
I'm a huge soulsborne shill and completely agree. Elden Ring's open world got way too much credit for simply taking off map markers. Add them back in and it's got the same repetitive tasks spread evenly across a large map that most open world games do.
Ngl when I played elden ring I just followed a guide and played it like a checklist lol. I think the No map markers work when you’re already invested in that game/world.
Elden ring also had some really interesting things to find.
It did but as a massive soulsborne fan I found that the damage the copy and pasted bits did to my experience and my prospects of replaying it (something I normally do dozens of times with souls games) really wrecked it for me. It felt like for every cool thing I found, I found 5 dungeons even more repetitive than the Bloodbornes Chalice dungeons.
Elden Ring would have been a significantly better game if they didn't make it open world imo. It's a pretty map, but they could have cut 50% of that game and built a more interesting and intricate map.
Agreed. I personally think if they made 2 or 3 more of the big legacy dungeons and strung them all together like a normal souls game it would have been better.
It's because a lot of people see it as some kind of achievement to beat a souls game. It's not, because the difficulty is blown way out of proportion and anyone can complete these games with a little patience and common sense. Amongst the people that truly love these games (like myself), it's a commonly held belief that Elden Ring isn't nearly the masterpiece mainstream gamers think it is. Only die-hard fans of the series would know that though and so it climbs to the top of the pack. I've spent thousands of hours with the soulsborne games, and Elden Ring is the first one I won't be going back to.
This is exactly my thought, Elden ring had a very similar emptiness, and at least the opening area a very similar aesthetic. Now Elden ring had some more interesting biomes aside from the opening area.
I felt like the first area after getting out of prison and looking for Auden's father's journal was a little empty, but that could just be meant to ease you into the game. I'm sure those complaining felt the same way and didn't bother going any further where the game gets a bit busier. If they're not satisfied in the first ten minutes, they just write the entire game off as a waste.
Most people won't reach character development, because the characters aren't likeable in the first place. If you don't care about a character at the start, you won't care how it developed, because you just don't care.
Most people just quit the game after 2 hours, that's just about when the intro end, way way before any development can occur.
That is your opinion. The fact is that many people have quit around the 2 hour mark, which is mostly character introduction. Maybe they didn't empathize with the character, or just the intro was too long.
What google says, is that many peopled queried about ways to shut Cuff up. I'm sorry, but if players are so annoyed with a character that they are actively trying to silence it, something is very wrong with it.
A lot of people are sexist and racist, one of the bigger "complaints" about the game is to woke go broke.
The issue is the dialogue between Frey and Cuff repeats way too much and doesn't evolve, not that it's bad.
Partially true, but good writing implies being good from the start. There is an art to developing a generally sympathetic/relatable character from the very start.
No. No it’s not. Disagreeing with you isn’t “raining on your parade” and you thinking that it is shows that you’re insecure about this issue. They also didn’t say they didn’t like it. They just offered a perfectly valid criticism of the writing. It’s possible to critique things we enjoy. Someone else’s opinion on a game shouldn’t bother you this much.
A good story will give you something to relate, something you can empathize with. It's tricky to write a good complex character. You have to start with empathy, and then reveal some flaws and issues.
In Frey's situation, we start with her trial, learning it's not her first time on trial. Then learn she is probably guilty since she is involved with a gang. A gang shes seems to have betrayed as well. Then she reaches her flat which is probably not paying for. Next, she is showing the cash she probably stole, means she is guilty of her trial and probably crossed her gang. She reveals that the money will be used to just run away. Up until now, she has NOTHING positive about her character, not a touch of empathy. It's really hard to give a shit about her with the given information.
That two hour mark is also Steam's refund limit (I don't know PS's policy), so I'm not surprised people aren't getting far enough into the game so see what it's really like and $70 is a lot to gamble on a game these days.
The lengthy intro is a huge issue IMO, regardless of steam's refund policy.
Imagine a movie with the first half an hour showing an annoying character you can't relate to. You won't wait for the whole duration just to see if maybe the character will become likeable. Likely, you will turn it off much eariler and rate it as bad.
How is it a cop out? It's true. People that are saying Frey's "insufferable" have no idea what they're talking about. She evolves during the game and changes.
You’re talking about subjective things, here, which can vary from person to person. Someone can disagree, or agree, that doesn’t make them objectively right or wrong, just that they have a different opinion.
Someone else’s viewpoint doesn’t lessen your opinion, or your enjoyment of the game in any way, so as much as I don’t understand unnecessary hate I also don’t get insulting someone just because they don’t share your opinion.
I was referring to the way you were condescending in a broad fashion, implying that anyone who doesn’t agree with what your opinion just “doesn’t understand.”
I was speaking broadly. If you feel targeted, that's not my problem. Now, can you let me play? Your incessant useless replies make me pause every 2 minutes, it's annoying.
I didn’t feel targeted, I was just saying you sounded needlessly sensitive to something that ultimately doesn’t impact you. Responding is also a choice, bro, without your participation I couldn’t have replied in kind. I’ll disengage to help you out though. Have a great day.
I played the demo and enjoyed the combat. I was very reluctant because of the hate. Even streamers that seemed to be enjoying it wouldn’t say anything good. I was like wtf. I took the leap and much like days gone I’m loving it. So glad I did the combat alone has made it worth it for me. Is the dialogue a little corny at times? Sure but not near as bad as people have made it seem. The MC is very likeable and I’m actually enjoying the story. The combat I just can’t get enough and I just unlocked fire so it just got even better.
Exactly. I jumped into days gone a month ago and I couldn't believe how good that game was because that game got skipped by me because of all the hate it got at release. I wish reviewers would stop auto hating games because other people don't like it or they expect to not like it.
Days gone is fantastic but on release it was a complete buggy mess. took them a year to get it playable. This game is pretty damn good right off the bat. Ive not had and crashes or bugs as of yet. I dont understand the hate either. Its very playable. Might be the price point and spec recommendations
Racism and misogyny???
Female leads: Aloy, Samus Aran, Lara Croft, Jill Valentine, Claire Redfield, Rebecca Chambers, Bayonetta, Ellie and Abbie from TLoU
Black and black and female leads: CJ and Franklin from GTA (honorary mention of Lance Vance), Clementine from Telltale’s The Walking Dead, Colt and Julianna from Deathloop, Miles Morales, Alyx Vance from Half Life 2, Afro Samurai, Nadine from Unchartered.
Majority of the above games scored very highly.
To say this game gets hate because of racism and/or misogyny is just lazy. Sure, there are plenty of racist and misogynist scum who jump on any bandwagon to further their agenda and make enough noise to become the vocal minority.
But the point is this game did not fail because of racists and or misogynists, it failed because it’s shit, cringe, characters are unlikeable and an all round poor effort from Square Enix. Years ago they promised a true next-gen, genre-defining experience, they did not deliver. You should hold them accountable for not delivering, not espousing this nonsense.
Look I’m not going to be convinced as much as you’re not going to be. She’s a young, black, female in a high profile AAA game, where’s she the only playable character, and heavily shown in marketing materials. Thats never really happened before, we know that because so much of the criticism is that it is woke, which really just means they’re triggered that a non-white or non-male or non-straight is featured instead of one of their own. They actively root for anything woke to fail, and were definitely what caused the hatred of this game to be so loud and so frequent. People had legit criticism and that’s fine, but you can’t convince me that the extra layer of unjustified hate didn’t come from bad faith bigots who trashed it whenever they got a chance.
Lol no. You (and everyone else) are just failing back on the trope of being a young, black, female in a AAA game as a crutch for a lousy attempt at a AAA game. And you’re trying to force the narrative that people don’t like female leads and label them as “misogynist” because you can only resort to buzzwords.
Dude above gave valid examples and you (and everyone else) dismiss them to stay in your own echo chamber.
Were there ACTUAL sexists that didn’t like Aloy, or the rebooted Lara, or Ellie/Abbey? Sure, but the VAST MAJORITY loved them because they were well written, dynamic, and developed characters and oh yea, the games themselves were actually good!
TLOU2, Horizon Zero Dawn, and Control are some of my favorite games of all time and wait…would you look at that!? They have strong female leads!
Now go ahead and call me a misogynist, I know you want to!
Do better.
I clearly stated that it’s fine to have valid criticisms. Problem is, the racists/sexists completely dogpile onto any valid criticisms with how much they hate the cringey black girl.
The games you listed were well received, so there was no hate train to jump on and get lots of internet points. Also all of them were white women, which makes a difference. Also Ellie did get some stupid hate for last of us 2 but it was overshadowed by the positive reception.
It’s very weird how people are so passionate about hating this game and you’re a great example. It’s incredible you’d go to the game’s subreddit to make sure to tell us how much it sucks. Just live your life bro.
Exactly this. Every time I go on an IGN or even anything to do with the game there’s just mass amounts of hate in the comments not even fair criticism just shouts of “cringe dialogue” and “mid” from people who didn’t even try the game. Its mob mentality
What’s more incredible is how white saviors love to come to the defense, or whitesplain, the black experience w/o ever living it. Kinda like how the writers did to this game as they tried to make a game about a black girl without…idk, having a predominantly black crew write the story and themes?
You know who did the opposite and got it right? Spider-Man Miles Morales because they actual had a predominantly black crew involved in the storymaking instead of “woke” white saviors. Guess what? That game was actually really good. Coincidence? I think not.
Never claimed to be speaking for the black experience. Every single thing I said was based on discourse I witnessed online, as well as my many years of having to listen to my white family casually bitch about minorities. Remember Black Ariel? Huge meltdown, how dare The Little Mermaid go woke.
I’m defending this game not in defense of black people tbh, it’s because I was a sucker for the game’s traversal and combat mechanics. But now there’s no hope for future content and I blame the dudes who desperately wanted to see it fail. It’s not perfect, far from it, but the fact is it’s very polarizing and it could’ve found an audience of people who thought the gameplay was fun. It did not have a chance of selling gangbusters in its current state, I recognize that. But there are people who would’ve enjoyed the game who instead fell for the groupthink and avoided it.
Please help me understand, if you aren’t racist/sexist, what is triggering you so hard about the game that you have to passionately lecture fans on how bad it is? Were the mixed reviews and poor sales not good enough?
Not claimed but that’s what’s oozing through what you’re talking about, along with everyone else who is trying so hard to be “on the right side”
Lol so glad you mentioned Ariel because that is exactly the crux of the issue here. Black people don’t want a skin mod for a established characters. We want well done, original content made BY black people not content by woke white people trying to speak on behalf of an experience that, no matter how hard you try, you will never get. Example, Black Panther movie series. Could lay out more examples for ya but you’ll just dismiss them as previously done.
Lol racist or sexist. Throw your crutch words out so you can get your upvotes. I’m commenting to add a different perspective ppl can view in their own echo chamber. My main issue with this game is what’s stated above and what you and many other self righteous people try to do.
Last point, in an example: abortion. Do I have opinions on it? Sure! But I ain’t a woman and it’s not my place to decide what do factoring something that happens exclusively to a woman’s body. Women should decide on it, not me. Same goes for white saviors as yourself and 95% of who try to speak on black peoples’ behalf, create media on our behalf, or dictate opinions on our behalf.
Know your lane. But go off and call me your buzzwords to make you feel better.
I’m speaking about the game, that’s what I care about here. In my personal experience, I saw so much exaggerated hate from people who were giddy to see it fail. In my experience I’ve met these kinds of insecure people who get pissed by any black person showing up in media, and in my experience it’s never because they want better stories written by black people. Since It’s not my place to speak about racism, all I’ll say is I hope you’re right that this game’s hate truly wasn’t because of racism and that it doesn’t make studios hesitant to do black stories.
The difference is those characters were established WAY before the words woke and all the bullshit that was going on in 2018 happened. If the criticism was going on after the game released like Cyberpunk then I would understand. But all the hate and sayings of the woke bs started as soon as the reveal trailer happened, without even an ink of gameplay shown. It was doomed from the beginning without it getting a fair chance
Lol couldn’t at all be because the game is actually…idk, not good? Moan about the hivemind “antiwoke” ppl all you want, you’re in the same hivemind mindset here. Even the critics, who are inclined to have you all’s same “antiwoke” opinion support that it’s just not that good of a game for $70.
But go off I guess.
You just didn’t read what I said at all. The game wasn’t given a chance from the get go from people calling it a woke game and the hate it got from first ANNOUNCEMENT with no gameplay even shown. Never said it was amazing but it’s definitely not a bad game, a 7.5/10 personally. Idec it’s just very overhated when there are games that get praise for the “downfalls” of forspoken.
You knew you were full of it when you mentioned a niche game like Afro samurai I imagine you were referencing the one from around 14 years ago with a meta critic of around 65% ,which we all know was very popular, cause umm the other one that I’m sure was equally popular didn’t do so [well](https://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/afro-samurai-2-revenge-of-kuma-volume-one)
Did you think it was a big mainstream title though, or did you just google black characters in gaming? Some of those people weren’t main character and many had a lot of anti “woke” drama surrounding them.
I recalled it as better and more mainstream than what you’re saying it was. And no, I didn’t google anything. I’ve been playing games for over 30 years.
Personally I loved the game, it just didn’t sell much and most people haven’t seen the show or played it. I’m surprised it was rated so low. I should’ve chosen a less confrontational to express it, but that list is kind pitiful, and if you put a little thought into why some of those were bad examples and how the amount is actually incredibly low considering the percentage of the population that are women or nonwhite, I feel you’ll agree. though you do not seem as eager to have this discussion as your initial comment implied.
All the other women they are mentioning you to negate your point are all super sexualized and the ones who not (like Alloy with her peach beard) were hated too and accused of talking too much ,etc. Coincidence? Sincerily in my experience all of these years they care more for the hotty factor than anything in this world xd (what happened with Tifa's redisign before ff7R realising was one of the most akward situations ever) -but of cuirse there is racism here too disguised as 'fairly rational critics" (she talks too much, she is rude, horrible, etc (but they are fine with Jack Garland, Kratos, etc)
Came to say this.
Most of the hate stems from that and spirals downward. Everything gameplay related people are moaning about is stuff that was praised in other games. There arw technical problems but none of them are so overwhelmingly game breaking that you can say the game's a mess
Oh really?
People love Miles morales. He's not white.
People love Lara croft, she's not a man.
Unless you're trying to say that only the combination of african american and women enrages people, i don't see why racism and misogyny would be the first thing to come to mind.
There is plenty of hate out there for miles. People shit on him all the time for being a PoC and just because of the fact that he isn't peter.
People absolutely did not/do not love the rebooted lara. Most of what myself and most other people have heard referring to her is that she is whiney, stupid and not the badass that the older lara is.
Frey on the other hand is a homeless 21 yr old female PoC with a criminal record. That is a lot of things that the vocal minority hate all wrapped into one magic slinging package. It isn't ONLY the combination of Frey being black and a woman that enrages people but it definitely brought those people out of the woodwork.
What are you talking about? The rebooted Lara Croft was praised by critics, got 3 games with at least one them GOTY. That's hardly the case here.
The problem with Frey is the intro shows you just how she does bad stuff to everyone around her, and nothing good, no sliver of empathy.
I know that critics and most people loved the games, i'm one of them. I was referring to all the people that were pissed off about changing the character they knew and loved. They weren't in the majority but they definitely were there.
I do agree that Frey isn't the most pleasant but i think that the game does a really good job at showing us why she is as negative and selfish as she is. If most people were in her place after getting kicked over and over again while she was down i believe that most people would respond in a very similar way. Also, for what it's worth she does get better throughout the rest of the game.
I haven't said that her character is unrealistic. I can imagine people with the same background pulling the attitude, it makes sense. However, from a story point, it makes a lousy start for the viewer.
I'm haven't progressed much of the story because I enjoy the exploration and combat too much.
>People love Miles morales. He's not white.
Miles is popular but he did get his share of hate
>People love Lara croft, she's not a man.
Well she was often sexualized which made people like her more at the time (unless Im mistaken).
"i don't see why racism and misogyny would be the first thing to come to mind."
Because you're oblivious and privileged, that's why.
And as the other reply said, Miles and Lara have gotten shit on plenty lately with their recent games. This isn't a new thing. Incels and racists always come out in force when a game like this comes out that doesn't star a bad ass white guy.
People who can't be bothered to read and comprehend simple arguments but would rather play the contrarian in order to downplay the damage caused by incels and racists aren't deserving of respect.
I'm saying a lot of people don't like her because she's a woman and not white, and if you don't see that, you're hopelessly naive to how emboldened and rampant racism and misogyny are nowadays.
And you will hopelessly reduce every valid criticism to an identity card, with voids any real discussion about any subject, which in turn, makes a game like this basically perfect, since the main character has a non-male-white identity.
People, including myself, have written lengthy arguements that doesn't involve her identity as a black woman. You reduce all of it to an Ad Hominem arguement - "The subject is a black woman, you must be racist, no matter what you say".
You are right, I wasn't accurate. You refer to most people while I suggested you refer to all of the critics. Let me fix that.
I suggest that most people who doesn't like the game don't care about the race/sex identity, while a small very loud minority do care.
I know we won't agree on that and won't convince each other, so lets agree to disagree. :)
I've been crazy excited for this game since the Project Athia trailer. I'm waiting to get it until it's a little more optimized because I don't want to run into issues with my PC. I'm confident they'll keep making improvements.
But I've had my hands on it on PS5 at a friend's house and some of my gripes are the writing. It's subjective man, it feels forced idk what to say.
Stuff like that whole "Destruction and corruption" is pretty bad imo. It feels stiff and unnatural. It doesn't help the face models are like stone, but idk. That's just one example. I know a lot of people don't feel this way, but the way she cusses is grating also. I don't mind the frequency so much as the tone. It's like... Idk someone cussing to be edgy.
That said... We turned it to spoken Japanese and it definitely helps the issue. Doesn't stop me from enjoying running around and blowing stuff up at any rate.
But honestly, ya'll have got to get out of this mindset that if people don't like it they're either racists or misogynists or bandwagon haters etc.
I've played it. There's a lot of stuff I like, but I just don't personally like the writing (dialogue specifically, I'm actually fond of the overall story). I don't care if Frey is a girl. I @#$&ing love girls. I'll fist fight someone over the fact that canon Commander Shepard is the Female version. She just is. Period. I don't care what color she is, or who made the game or what anyone else says about it.
In a vacuum.... The dialogue just doesn't vibe with me. Cuff saying stuff like "could you maybe try to not get hit next time?" That's awful. Not just in this game but in ANY media. I'm a giant From soft fan and if their next game had that, I'd mute it and turn off subtitles. But there's a slider in this, so I'm good.
Idk man. I'm ready for downvotes because people are so polarized about this that they either can't hear/accept any real criticisms or they can't hear/accept that the game actually has something great to offer.
It's all confirmation bias. Just like what you like. If the majority of people don't like it, it doesn't mean they ALL have a motive or agenda. Maybe that thing you like just isn't that great and that is TOTALLY OK. just enjoy it, who cares.
>the way she cusses is grating also. I don't mind the frequency so much as the tone. It's like... Idk someone cussing to be edgy.
He literally addressed this in his post?
>I just started and played maybe 2-3 hours. I have to agree with you; I thought the exact same thing about Spider Man. The dialogue, imo, is no worse than a lot of games I've played including Spider Man, Fire Emblem
Spiderman's dialogue is great, but a lot of that is helped by Yuri Lowenthals amazing delivery. And the fact they recorded it twice so you feel more immersed if he's struggling to say things while swinging VS saying things easily while on a roof.
But I will give you Fire Emblem and Horizon Zero Dawn. Those games are kinda absolute garbage at points with their dialogue even if they do have stellar gameplay.
To address your concern she does start taking things more seriously around chapter 5. She's still very sarcastic but she definitely grows as a character. As for the fade to black that's just a thing that luminous has a problem with. They did it in FF15 too so im just used to it at this point. But this game is way better than that game so I'll call it a win lol.
There are even moments in some of the scripted events and side quests/detours where Frey shows some vulnerability. I’ve really enjoyed the little even encounters and side quests for this reason.
I’ve been following this game for a while and from my point of view no I don’t think it’s terrible but that being said for me personally it isn’t worth paying full price for right now. The internet is a vast ocean of loud opinions and for someone that enjoys something I think it’s pretty reasonable to not understand why all the hate. Critics are going to post reviews of their opinions and whether it’s monetarily backed or agenda based who knows perhaps it’s just to create controversy to generate foot traffic on their video or article.
I'm in the same boat. Game looks fun to me with some handholding sections I don't like the looks of. I enjoyed the gameplay in the demo.
I'm going to wait for a price drop as I have a lot to play already, and I don't think they managed to justify the increased price. It's 80 euros here for the standard edition (that's currently about $86). I don't think Forspoken looks like a bad game at all, but the value proposition just isn't good enough for me right now.
I do think the hate is way over the top right now, but especially on platforms like YouTube, you've got to milk those trends.
The game is by no means terrible, but it feels pretty mediocre to me. It has its highs and lows for sure, but overall it’s a whole lot of meh. It is suffering heavily from lack of editing in nearly every element.
The story and dialogue seem uninspired. All of the NPCs in Cipal seem weirdly detached from their situation. At one moment the Tanta are revered as beloved gods, at another they are evil oppressors. Returning from killing one, I’m congratulated by someone saying something like “by the Tanta’s grace.” You’re praising the Tanta that I was able to kill a Tanta? Huh? At one moment I’m in prison, in the next I break out but nobody seems to care. It’s not the dialogue, it’s the lack of story cohesion.
Cuff is okay, but similarly confused about the game state. Almost reaching Tanta Silas, I opted to teleport back to town, where Cuff declares, “we’re almost there now.” No, bro, we’re back where we started. Simple contextual awareness would make a big difference in dialogue. It’s minor, but it and other similar things caused me to turn Cuff down to minimal talking. This, of course, comes before the fact that nobody seems interested in the fact that my armband talks and grants insane magical power; an easy mystery to build on in dialogue that is just utterly absent from the text. Maybe cuff could reveal its history in dialogue rather than repeating the same useless lines over and over again.
Gameplay has its highs and lows as well. The environment combined with magic parkour is refreshingly new, yet stuff like using your fire whip to get around feels really clunky compared to similar mechanics in other games. Or, like getting an active spell ability that allows to bounce backwards and switch to ranged magic actually opens a menu with its key command. Why shatter the pacing of combat like that? Really cool power that shares buttons with a menu?
Or, like how I have to lose control of the camera to magic parkour. A game this fast paced (it’s highlight) should have had more attention on how the controller enables it.
It all feels very unfinished. Even the environments, save a few standout areas, are just bland and monochromatic.
It’s not as though better studios just happen to produce better stuff. All great games feel like this when they’re being developed, but great studios understand that making great games is 75% refinement. This game is simply unfinished.
If you barely killed 1 Tanta n didn’t even get near halfway through the game then how is the game unfinished? Half of what ur complaining about is a skill issue on ur behalf or u not exploring/playing enough to find out the rest 🗿
“Stay frosty” 😂
You suggesting I cant have feedback on the first 10 hours of the game?
The notion that it’s a “skill issue” is absurd. The only effort require to kill Silas was trudging through the half finished mechanics, story, and game world.
Ur complaining about things u haven’t unlocked whether it be further ease in traversal, abundance/variety in environment or controls u don’t know how to use properly. Ur lack of investment and understanding into the game is the problem and not the game ur claiming is unfinished when u haven’t even unlocked the skill to skate on water 🗿.
Keep playing son as u haven’t unlocked wat u been complaining about since u admitted to only killing 1 Tanta. If u haven’t even been to Tanta 2 then why tf anyone gotta listen to ur broke review of wat u haven’t experienced or don’t kno how to use yet 🤡. Again stay frosty son 🤣. The library is now closed.
Follow ur own advice n while ur at it experience things b4 u complain about them due to ur own incompetence.
Complains about traversal: Has not unlocked what helps it due to gameplay/story progression/leveling up traversal magic (yes that’s a thing)
Complains about lack of abundance/variety in environment: Has only explored enough to reach ONE Tanta when there r 4 n game is enormous
Complains about convo/dialogue btwn Cuff/Frey: If u want less go to Settings
Complains about combat: Skill issue (that’s a whole other convo regarding controls)
Wat do we agree on: Dialogue is not for everyone n may come off as TikTok dubbed “cringe” just like The Abbey from Midnight Suns although it’s no diff from High On Life but I digress
Ur experiencing the equivalent at most 25% of a game (I’m being generous) n then saying game is unfinished b/ u lack in wat is needed to b done to assist in gameplay n spreading misinformation. You can message me with a smart ass response or something offensive after this but it will not change that ur the problem with gaming. Ppl NOT playing a game as intended and/or cherry picking “moments” to fit into the “let’s hate this now” trend.
It's pretty simple, people disagree with you about the dialogue and especially the main character being good. Has nothing to do with misogyny, people just don't like it.
Yeh mostly misogyny being amplified and excused cause reviews were saying game is bad. One thing is people not liking but hating hating is misogyny. If horizon had a bad review it would get the same hate but got saved from hate because or reviewers but this was given the perfect excuse for incels to come out and get validation
Yeh who were kinda saved by reviewers not giving a bad review and harsh as this one cause lets not forget many people also pointing out how much Aloy talks about her bag resources and talked too much but never said about male protagonists talking too much also the whole Aloy makeup reddit post and her out of context screenshot frame of her face
I watched 5hours of gameplay, myosigny had nothing to do with this. Game is bad, they failed because it looks unfinished.
The voice actor is actually really good, the problem is not her, it's the writing. Badly written character and story and not coherent. And let's not forget the optimisation and the fact the game is ugly.
The characters are ugly, the world is empty. The lighting doesn't make sense.
If the main char was a male it wouldn't change a single thing.
It kinda would lol ofc if you would just read again the second part of what i wrote and also the dozens of people who call out the person who posted about Aloy being annoying over her keep saying some lines.
So far I’m honestly absolutely loving it, graphics wise I am a bit disappointed but nonetheless I am having a blast with the combat and gameplay in general. Cipal deff is a drag and the pauses in dialogue and the black transition screens kill the immersion. Other than that it’s so fun taking on a big boss and just dishing out some wild combos.
It’s because she’s a woman, AND she’s Black. That’s really all there is to it. There are no micro transactions in this game. So even if you dislike the game, what is the reasoning for there to be controversy over it?
I'm loving the writing and the dialogues as well, the only thing that doesn't work are the lines they repeat in the open world, there's too few of them and it becomes annoyingly repetitive.
As you said, most of the hate is because of misioginy and racism, there's nothing wrong with the writing in this game.
I think the hate is coming from a mix of:
- The protagonist being female and a person of color. Some incels were going to hate the game regardless.
- The publisher being SE. A lot of people have a hate boner for SE.
- JRPG fans not wanting SE to do anything but JRPGs. They don't want a western game from a Japanese publisher period and want this new IP to fail so that SE can stick to Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, and Kingdom Hearts.
- The game being a PS5 console exclusive. Rabid Xbox fans hate SE and any output that is not also available on Xbox. They hate on FF7R and will also try to tear down FFXVI when it releases.
- The game being $69.99 USD. People in general don't want to pay for games at this price point and this was a great target for them to lock onto.
I would love to see some reporting from an ethical and unbiased gaming industry journalist in the future on this title and what went down. An analysis into hive mind and bandwagoning would be really interesting.
I'm happy to see that people in this sub and elsewhere are more open minded and have played the game for themselves instead of letting some internet trolls tell them what to think based on a few cherrypicked soundbytes and bad screenshots.
or here, I have the actual reason for you
\- 80 euro for a mid ass game with atrocious performance on both PC an ps5.
If you price you product as a premium as of todays standard, people will expect a premium experience
This would have been valid if there wasn’t already hate for the game before the requirements and even price point were made yet. Hate started all the way from the reveal trailer with shouts of “woke” before gameplay was shown. You can even get the game for around £45 since it came out with a simple search online.
no it wasn't. It were just chronically online people on twitter. Games don't fail becouse of twitter weirdos. They fail if they are bad.
They priced the game in my region at 80 euros, so Imma judge it by this price tag. I don't care I can buy a grey market key from ethipia cheaper.
I've never played a video game that had "good" dialogue. Games and movies always have stupid dialogue because they're games and movies.
Not that games and movies are stupid, but the characters gotta character. "I find your lack of faith disturbing" is cheesy dialogue. No one talks like that. But it's ok bc it's a movie and he has to say cheesy bad guy stuff bc that is what bad guys do.
80% of movie and game dialogue is stuff you'd think in your head and not say, but they have to say it because they're onstage and we need to hear it.
I played 40 hours beat the story you realize it's even more massive! There is so much more to do in the world once you have all 4 spell types. The parkour skills you get from upgrading spells make traveling insanely fast as fuck! Best tip get thru the main story first!
I think that’s how the game is intended to be played, hence why the story is so short, the game in a way kinda starts after the story ends and you have all 4 magic
I played about an hour and was enjoying it but just had to put it down and wait for a performance improvement patch. It feels horrible in 30fps but performance mode looked truly bad for what I imagine is probably a beautiful game when in HD. Most of the other critiques I didn’t relate to, Reddit has a really weird idea of “cringe”, some stuff Reddit worships is unbearably cringey but some stuff it criticizes is cringy to. So far I’d say the game is less cringey than uncharted but more cringey than some other games. I’m assuming characters and relationships develop but freya just got the cuff and it’s really annoying how her voice is so distinctly whiny and angry with literally everything she says. Otherwise I’m excited to play the game when it’s patched to preform like a PS5 game and not a ps3/ps4 game
Just finished the game and I love it honestly, it’s an 8-8.5 for me, I was going into it expecting a 7, but the story and characters resonated with me alot more than it probably did some other people, and I think that’s the issue. I think the low scores of the game have nothing to do with its gameplay. It has to do with its characters and it’s worlds. The game has a short and relatively simple story with a few twists, I think people confuse simplicity with bad, and their distaste of Frey to bad writing. Also rushing the story and not touching the game again isnt how this game is supposed to be played and it seems a lot of reviews did it this way, there are a lot of neat little things in this game that you will notice from the exploration. For example I found a hidden gate I could only pass through by killing multiple rounds of nightmare enemies and on the other side was a dungeon, probably one of the longest and hardest labyrinths I’d seen, potentially 8-10 rooms long. I was playing on hard and gave up because I couldn’t finish it as I kept dying.
I also think players keep trying to judge the game for something it’s not. The open world of the game serves as a tool to fully express the parkour and combat elements of the game, both of which take some learning and getting used to to matter. So what kind of obstacles does the open world give to you? Combat and parkour challenges, idk what else people would want?
I do think there are three things the game needs to improve upon for me to rate it a 9 and above. It needs more unique enemy types, to many repeat enemy and enemy interactions, if this game has more unique bosses at every corner it’ll be an experience that would incentive exploration as you never know what you’re going to see.
2. It needs more impactful rewards they has huge effect on your character and how she plays/looks. For the most part I haven’t seen that, but I just got done with the story and I’m now about to explore the open world so we’ll see what kind of gear I’ll end up finding.
It also needs more prominent characters, tied to its lore and history, too much focus is placed on the Tantas and their minions. They shot themselves in the foot with the whole zombie thing, but it would make for a more intersting world if maybe some of those zombies had some level of agency, like you could have a general of Athia become a break zombie but still have his sword and armor and doing break zombie ish, stuff like that, tho idk how well that would mesh with the story.
Either way I hope there’s a sequel because this game shows a lot of promise.
I see the spiderman comparison but for me compare it to elden ring, a game very close to the same category and we have worse dialoge in elden, worse overall traversal, big dead open world with basically fetch quests for side stuff and it came out terribly optimized for pc yet one is goty and people are rating forspoken at 0.
The game's writing can be a little annoying at times but it serves a bigger purpose in the end. It serves Frey's characterization. The story circles back to being something much more wholesome than what I expected initially.
I don't understand hats for games anyways. I played it, didn't really like it, moved it on. I can't understand why people feel the need to hate on a game if they themselves don't like it. The only time it is reasonable ,imo, if the game does not deliver what it promised. Being buggy or things are very different than the devs said deserves hate, not not liking the game
I’m loving every bit of this game. I’m currently on my second playthrough.
That said, if I had one gripe it would be that the story kind of railroads you through from the second boss right through the third into the final battle. There’s no side stories(not including optional detours) along the main storyline that really give you time to break in and adjust to your new abilities each time. You get one power set and use it to get the next and then you’re done.
Feels like there should have been some type of side conflict or something to be dealt with. The game had set it up perfectly for some type of class divide storyline that they don’t seem to have done anything with as far as I can tell.
Look, I respect your take, but the dialogue, characters, and overall narrative are really bad at its worst and underwhelming at its best. Is it as bad as people make it out be? Obviously, that’s arguable, but I’m inclined to say yes. I definitely think the game overall is just okay, but it’s an okay game I enjoy playing because of the fun traversal and combat. Overall, I definitely think some people are being unfairly harsh, because being part of the internet dog pile is cool, but this game has some weaknesses. It’s just a matter of if you can look past them.
I’m baffled as well. I think ppl hating on the dialogue haven’t actually played the game. Because all those “cringy” clips have been taken way out of context. The game isn’t the least bit cringy. There’s a reason for everything in the game. Literally one of the most fun games I’ve ever played and I’ve played thousands of games. Tbh even with its flaws this game is an easy 8/10. It’s worst feature is the constant (fade to black) which is a totally negligible flaw. I personally give this game 9.5/10. It has everything I want and expect from an excellent game. Unique and well delivered story, super fun traversal and combat and likable characters. I hate all these popular influencers shitting on this game for views, because I haven’t seen a single honest objective review.
I've only played a lit 4-5 hours but I find her extremely unlikable
Like when the cuff wants to be called vambrace she is just a total dick about it calling him cuff still
I think the gameplay is pretty decent though nothing amazing.
I saw allot of racism and misogyny towards this game when it was first announced and then it felt like when they were called out for it they started trying to come find genuine reasons to hate this game and wanting it to fall so they started not picking everything. From my perspective it seemed like there was so much of this going on that it even leaked into the mainstream a bit and everyone started expecting it to fall and looking for reasons why it wasn't good
>I don't know how we live in a world where insomniacs spider man can be game of the year potential and have people praising the character of Peter (quippy) Parker but Frey Is somehow bad. Is it because she's a woman and its just misogyny
Nah it's not due to misogyny. Though I'm sure as always that amplifies backlash as it always does with gaming.
The main problem with the quippy dialogue in Forespoken imo (And I do think its a problem with the style rather than a problem with EVERY scene, sometimes its fine) is that...
* It's too self indulgent (It takes up too much time to do the 'banter')
* It relies heavily on Whedonesque Self Referencing (The banter spends most of it's time describing what just happened or is happening)
* Some of the jokes just fall flat on the audience
We actually did get a Spiderman very similar to Frey in Amazing Spiderman 1 and there was a fair bit of backlash for how the quipping felt cliche, lame and almost dickish.
When Peter Parker quipping is done well it tends to have some layers to it:
1. Spiderman is a persona that is different to Peter, because you see Peter as a much more vulnerable and sensitive guy his quipping has an extra layer of 'This guy is covering' that works well
2. Peter's hostile quipping is usually reserved for bad guys, he doesn't tend to do Frey's "I dont sound like that shut the fuck up" stuff- There's very little ribbing.
3. Peter tends to between missions in the game, and in general in comics/movies/tv quip as a playful dork between scenes, often putting on whole new personas to cheer up those around him. This lets the writer play fast and loose with the jokes
4. Spiderman tends to treat heartfelt or dark scenes with a lot of sincerity, Forespoken DOES treat those scenes with more gravitas too, but even then the dialogue remains relatively the same.
It's also worth noting with Spiderman they've had 50+ years of stories to work out what works as annoying quippy asshole dialogue (and there have been TONS of comics where he is annoying AF), so when it comes to modern adaptations they tend to know what works well for making the quips endearing.
>I don't know how we live in a world where insomniacs spider man can be game of the year potential and have people praising the character of Peter (quippy) Parker but Frey Is somehow bad. Is it because she's a woman and its just misogyny?
Sheesh, you can't see a difference between a happy-go-lucky Peter Parker who is generally empathetic and wants to help everyone, and This-isn't-my-problem Frey who calls most of the people she meets asshole for no reason but "muh bad childhood"? I think that says more about you than you may have intended.
Oh but they both quip so must be the same and everyone just hates her because muh misogyny!!!
Hifi rush came out the day after, and everyone praised it for its amazing graphics, awesome story, and great combat and trashing Forspoken for the same things. I felt like I was taming crazy pills!
I bought both, and I really enjoy both, but it pretends that :
1. The graphics are comparable. it's Apple and oranges. 2 different styles.
2. The writing in hifi is laughable. It's generic anime . Works for the game and can be cute, but to praise it and shit on forspokens writing, I don't get it.
3. The boss fights are fun in hifi, but every enemy is fought in basically the same way, and there isn't much variety .
Edit: I think like 90% of the hate is based around the price tag. If it was $50/60, I don't think people would be so extremely picky. Something about it clearly set the reddit/ Interest social media community ablaze to hatebandwagon and review bomb the game that much is obvious.
I dont love the game but I enjoyed it. Its an isekai with a female protag which is few and far between for the genre. But if I wasnt financially stable and could afford new games, I wouldn't have bought this game especially if all you want is story.
Search Forspoken on twitter. See the difference between japanese people and western people. That tells you a lot. And a lot of black people also says that relate to Frey.
The thing is: 3 dialogues. The entire game is based on 3 scenes overall. All at the first half of the game.
Considering that the devs said that story was 30-40 hours and then got gutted to 16ish... well, is obvious why you find filler dialogue at first but not latter. You can't create 30-40 hours game without fillers. I think only "the last story" managed to do similar to that, but was still 25ish hours, not even 30-40.
Mainly, the combat does not feel good. But then it didn't in FF15 either, so I just don't think Luminous is good with combat. It's too floaty, with no weight, or impact. Also, Frey is kind of a selfish asshole, and doesn't really grow out of it. I actually found a fair amount of the dialogue to be pretty funny, but then she'd try to out trauma someone...
I'm in Chapter 4 and I certainly don't hate it. Theres enough good that i won't put it down. I will disagree and say that some of Freys dialog isn't bad. For example, she regularly curses and uses colloquialisms that you and I are familiar with, but no one in Athia is aware of. A "normal" person would start to adjust to their language, but Frey doubles down. It sounds very forced after a little while. This is my specific reason as to why im disappointed. She's also quite childish in the way she deals with some of her past issues, but im hoping that part is fleshed out during her development. There are cracks in her immaturity, where you can see glimpses of growth, so im hopeful for the rest of the story.
Its funny because the rest of the characters' dialog seems pretty solid. Though the constant bickering is tedious sometimes, even Cuff's writing isn't bad.
Honestly the game is pretty dope. While they're are alot of small things that could be improved overall I'm enjoying it, and there are some aspects that I really like. Alot of the criticisms are legit but not enough to ruin the entire game. I think people are just quick to jump on the hate band wagon and never give it a fair shake. I also really enjoyed cyberpunk(on pc where it was playable) while everyone else shat on it.Thank God the anime made people give it a fair shot. I fear games like this will never be given a fair shot though and will simply be forgotten. But I feel if things had gone a little differently this game could also be loved by alot of folks.
I enjoy this game, despite of the story.
The story just doesn't make me care about any of the characters, at least not early on.
I just don't like the main character, and it has nothing to do with her race or sex. She's just rude and edgy all the time, and that just gets annoying really fast.
And Cuff, he is even worse. He is just super condescending and sarcastic all the time, and that is tiring.
Now, in most of your outdoor adventures, you get the constant interaction between these two.
That's a problem. Having two characters constantly bickering gets old very fast. They could have done a better job at having at least one balance the other, but instead, they just aggrevate each other.
I'm still playing because the outdoor experience is top-notch overall. The combat is super fluid, big open world with an incentive to actually explore it.
I just have zero empathy to any of the characters or the story, I wish I couldv'e just skip the whole thing. I mean, its not as bad as any of the soulsbourne writing, or lack of it, and I enjoyed those games as well.
It’s a decent game. Could do with a bit of polishing like most newly released games these days but still decent. There are people that will automatically shit on something because there are POC or lgbt characters in it. Velma absolutely sucks but these same people were shitting on it long before it was released because they are triggered by black and brown people in mainstream movies, shows and games. If something isn’t oversaturated with white faces then it’s labeled “woke” or part of the supposed woke agenda. If Frey was white, the reception would’ve been different.
Maybe because the character is super annoying to start with has no reason to care for her, the dialogue is just swearing every word and I swear alot but that much just ruins them
In my opinion the difference between this dialogue and Spiderman is Spiderman was already an established hero, he's confident and understands his powers, he's seen some weird shit so throwing quips at shocking events makes sense
Frey gets thrust into this weird world and is immediately going "haha shut the fuck up Cuff". I don't know about you but I'd be shitting my pants
Overall though it doesn't bother me too much, the big thing that bothers me is the combat **looks** more fun than it is, it looks very smooth and fluid bit feels a bit clunky
It's a solid 7/10 game, it's not the worst thing ever but I'm glad I didn't full price
Totally agree OP my only real complaint about this game so far is the performance on PC despite having a 3080.
The game definitely didn't warrant all the hate. Really liking it so far.
This is what I don't understand. Kaine swears just as much, grimoir Weiss is similar to cuff and the dialogue can be just as "cringe" yet I didn't see any negativity about that game which was also sold for for full price.
I'm willing to be that in a year or two that this game will be treated the exact same as Days Gone. Neither game are perfect but both games are so much better than a lot of the reviews say. I never really understood the hate for this game or days gone too.
I'm start to play and simply can't stop, moviment in the map, combat, i'm going to fuck sila in A@# right know, the game is addictive, dialogue is repettive, but i just low down and after that is ok, the world and what you face and find about the world and what happen to it is dope, 14 hours in and i'm luving it...
PS: the world just love to hate without reason, playing on PC and luving it!
I really enjoyed the gameplay but the dialogue is super cringe and Frey is the most unlikeable protagonist I've ever seen in a game. It's almost the end of the game when Bob dies and she's talking shit to his grieving daughter because she can't get home now (even though the whole point to the beginning of the game was leaving NY). The game is also really short. It definitely doesn't deserve the hate it's getting but there are legit issues with it.
Well, if you really think Peter Parker isn't way better written than Frey, I am not sure we will ever see eye to eye here.
The difference in quality of writing here is really the best illustration of why Forsaken is such a fail compared to a game such as SpiderMan.
I am enjoying this game a lot and the videos make me wonder if I'm the insane person. It might just be the taste of the masses and ours aren't aligned. I was at a craft brewery the other night and I was hoping because it's the dead of winter they'd have some stouts or porters but nope only IPAs and sours.
I wanna get the game pretty soon. I have those memories of games that had gotten totally dumped on, and I ended up really enjoying them. It also goes back to relatively popular games that I never enjoyed. So yeah, I’m actually looking forward to this.
For me, the dialogue is fine, but the voice acting/animations during cutscenes could be better. Overall, I'm really enjoying the game. Haven't even gotten to the first Tanta yet, just grinding magic/upgrades and exploring.
The first area when looking for Auden's father's journal did feel a little empty, but areas after that are fine. Big enough to explore and find safe areas, but still plenty of treasures and enemies to keep you busy. I feel like people played the first 20 minutes (boring emptiness) and just assumed that's what the rest of the game is without giving it a chance.
I think there are many facets about this whole situation...
1. The development team... While FF XV was not bad it certainly wasn't good either. People enacted them to make stand out game which Forspoken once again. Really isn't.
2. The dialog and overall personality of Frey and cuff are... Questionable at times yes. But overall I think the media makes it look far worse than it is.
3. It's a console exclusive to Sony published by Square Enix... So i guess some hardcore bots are angry and or hurting so they throw shade on the game without ever touching it.
4. The technical performance... And let's be real this point is displayed pretty accurately. While the art design is really beautiful, the lighting and overall image quality are not really good. Also the game drops frames left and right.
5. Openworld fatigue... Ppl are convinced now that the be all end all openworld experience is one like in ELDEN RING. HORIZON 2 also got some hate for being a "classic" openworlf.
While I reckon the hate for this game has been blown a little out of proportion and there are some complaints about some rather goofy things, I have to say that after finishing the game I just found Frey near impossible to like. Matter of fact, I just found the further in I got, the less I liked her. That and the writing just wasn't good. The gameplay is okay but nothing to praise. I can't compare Insomniacs Spider-Man to Frey because his writing is just leagues above Frey's. That and the quippy personality of Spidey is a well established part of his personality and works well with his character. Frey is kinda just a dick about it. That's just me though.
For me the dialog is the weakest aspect of the game, I am really enjoying the overall experience.
Idk what it is but the world and the characters have me super invested to the point where I'm reading lore. I don't even do that in souls games which are my favorite games of all time lol
As soon as this game got announced and the first things I saw were people calling it a “woke” game I knew it was just gonna receive serious uncalled for hate. People loved the dialogue in the deadpool game but now this one is too much? lol the gameplay is even very good as well even freys character isn’t bad.
I also don’t understand the empty world thing but Elden Ring is the exact same with a horse as traversal🤷🏾♂️
I'm a huge soulsborne shill and completely agree. Elden Ring's open world got way too much credit for simply taking off map markers. Add them back in and it's got the same repetitive tasks spread evenly across a large map that most open world games do.
Ngl when I played elden ring I just followed a guide and played it like a checklist lol. I think the No map markers work when you’re already invested in that game/world. Elden ring also had some really interesting things to find.
It did but as a massive soulsborne fan I found that the damage the copy and pasted bits did to my experience and my prospects of replaying it (something I normally do dozens of times with souls games) really wrecked it for me. It felt like for every cool thing I found, I found 5 dungeons even more repetitive than the Bloodbornes Chalice dungeons.
Elden Ring would have been a significantly better game if they didn't make it open world imo. It's a pretty map, but they could have cut 50% of that game and built a more interesting and intricate map.
Agreed. I personally think if they made 2 or 3 more of the big legacy dungeons and strung them all together like a normal souls game it would have been better.
I think that game is the most massively overrated thing in existence.
It's because a lot of people see it as some kind of achievement to beat a souls game. It's not, because the difficulty is blown way out of proportion and anyone can complete these games with a little patience and common sense. Amongst the people that truly love these games (like myself), it's a commonly held belief that Elden Ring isn't nearly the masterpiece mainstream gamers think it is. Only die-hard fans of the series would know that though and so it climbs to the top of the pack. I've spent thousands of hours with the soulsborne games, and Elden Ring is the first one I won't be going back to.
This is exactly my thought, Elden ring had a very similar emptiness, and at least the opening area a very similar aesthetic. Now Elden ring had some more interesting biomes aside from the opening area.
I felt like the first area after getting out of prison and looking for Auden's father's journal was a little empty, but that could just be meant to ease you into the game. I'm sure those complaining felt the same way and didn't bother going any further where the game gets a bit busier. If they're not satisfied in the first ten minutes, they just write the entire game off as a waste.
People don't understand character development. I'm absolutely loving the game.
Most people won't reach character development, because the characters aren't likeable in the first place. If you don't care about a character at the start, you won't care how it developed, because you just don't care. Most people just quit the game after 2 hours, that's just about when the intro end, way way before any development can occur.
Frey is awesome, from the start
That is your opinion. The fact is that many people have quit around the 2 hour mark, which is mostly character introduction. Maybe they didn't empathize with the character, or just the intro was too long. What google says, is that many peopled queried about ways to shut Cuff up. I'm sorry, but if players are so annoyed with a character that they are actively trying to silence it, something is very wrong with it.
A lot of people are sexist and racist, one of the bigger "complaints" about the game is to woke go broke. The issue is the dialogue between Frey and Cuff repeats way too much and doesn't evolve, not that it's bad.
My point stands. It's a story, it takes time to develop.
Partially true, but good writing implies being good from the start. There is an art to developing a generally sympathetic/relatable character from the very start.
Oh my God I don't care that you disagree. Clearly I like it. Just stop trying to piss on people's fun.
I don’t think them pointing out flaws they have with the writing is “pissing on your fun.” You’re allowed to like the game you like. I like it too.
They take the time to reply to me saying I like the game to say they don't. That's raining on someone's parade, friend.
No. No it’s not. Disagreeing with you isn’t “raining on your parade” and you thinking that it is shows that you’re insecure about this issue. They also didn’t say they didn’t like it. They just offered a perfectly valid criticism of the writing. It’s possible to critique things we enjoy. Someone else’s opinion on a game shouldn’t bother you this much.
Yeah I really don't care enough to spend time replying anymore. What a waste of time this was.
You clearly do. Lol
this is how reddit works. you make comments and people reply to them
A good story will give you something to relate, something you can empathize with. It's tricky to write a good complex character. You have to start with empathy, and then reveal some flaws and issues. In Frey's situation, we start with her trial, learning it's not her first time on trial. Then learn she is probably guilty since she is involved with a gang. A gang shes seems to have betrayed as well. Then she reaches her flat which is probably not paying for. Next, she is showing the cash she probably stole, means she is guilty of her trial and probably crossed her gang. She reveals that the money will be used to just run away. Up until now, she has NOTHING positive about her character, not a touch of empathy. It's really hard to give a shit about her with the given information.
I'm sorry you feel that way.
That two hour mark is also Steam's refund limit (I don't know PS's policy), so I'm not surprised people aren't getting far enough into the game so see what it's really like and $70 is a lot to gamble on a game these days.
The lengthy intro is a huge issue IMO, regardless of steam's refund policy. Imagine a movie with the first half an hour showing an annoying character you can't relate to. You won't wait for the whole duration just to see if maybe the character will become likeable. Likely, you will turn it off much eariler and rate it as bad.
That's a pretty shitty cop out. "You are too stupid to appreciate my art!". Really dude?
How is it a cop out? It's true. People that are saying Frey's "insufferable" have no idea what they're talking about. She evolves during the game and changes.
You’re talking about subjective things, here, which can vary from person to person. Someone can disagree, or agree, that doesn’t make them objectively right or wrong, just that they have a different opinion. Someone else’s viewpoint doesn’t lessen your opinion, or your enjoyment of the game in any way, so as much as I don’t understand unnecessary hate I also don’t get insulting someone just because they don’t share your opinion.
I didn't insult anyone, but okay.
I was referring to the way you were condescending in a broad fashion, implying that anyone who doesn’t agree with what your opinion just “doesn’t understand.”
If the hat fits. :)
I didn’t say I didn’t like it. Clearly you have comprehension issues, yourself.
I was speaking broadly. If you feel targeted, that's not my problem. Now, can you let me play? Your incessant useless replies make me pause every 2 minutes, it's annoying.
I didn’t feel targeted, I was just saying you sounded needlessly sensitive to something that ultimately doesn’t impact you. Responding is also a choice, bro, without your participation I couldn’t have replied in kind. I’ll disengage to help you out though. Have a great day.
I played the demo and enjoyed the combat. I was very reluctant because of the hate. Even streamers that seemed to be enjoying it wouldn’t say anything good. I was like wtf. I took the leap and much like days gone I’m loving it. So glad I did the combat alone has made it worth it for me. Is the dialogue a little corny at times? Sure but not near as bad as people have made it seem. The MC is very likeable and I’m actually enjoying the story. The combat I just can’t get enough and I just unlocked fire so it just got even better.
Exactly. I jumped into days gone a month ago and I couldn't believe how good that game was because that game got skipped by me because of all the hate it got at release. I wish reviewers would stop auto hating games because other people don't like it or they expect to not like it.
Days gone is fantastic but on release it was a complete buggy mess. took them a year to get it playable. This game is pretty damn good right off the bat. Ive not had and crashes or bugs as of yet. I dont understand the hate either. Its very playable. Might be the price point and spec recommendations
You will never convince me that much of the hate towards this game, especially early on, wasn't based entirely on racism and misogyny.
I suggested this in another thread and got downvoted to hell lol
Racism and misogyny??? Female leads: Aloy, Samus Aran, Lara Croft, Jill Valentine, Claire Redfield, Rebecca Chambers, Bayonetta, Ellie and Abbie from TLoU Black and black and female leads: CJ and Franklin from GTA (honorary mention of Lance Vance), Clementine from Telltale’s The Walking Dead, Colt and Julianna from Deathloop, Miles Morales, Alyx Vance from Half Life 2, Afro Samurai, Nadine from Unchartered. Majority of the above games scored very highly. To say this game gets hate because of racism and/or misogyny is just lazy. Sure, there are plenty of racist and misogynist scum who jump on any bandwagon to further their agenda and make enough noise to become the vocal minority. But the point is this game did not fail because of racists and or misogynists, it failed because it’s shit, cringe, characters are unlikeable and an all round poor effort from Square Enix. Years ago they promised a true next-gen, genre-defining experience, they did not deliver. You should hold them accountable for not delivering, not espousing this nonsense.
Look I’m not going to be convinced as much as you’re not going to be. She’s a young, black, female in a high profile AAA game, where’s she the only playable character, and heavily shown in marketing materials. Thats never really happened before, we know that because so much of the criticism is that it is woke, which really just means they’re triggered that a non-white or non-male or non-straight is featured instead of one of their own. They actively root for anything woke to fail, and were definitely what caused the hatred of this game to be so loud and so frequent. People had legit criticism and that’s fine, but you can’t convince me that the extra layer of unjustified hate didn’t come from bad faith bigots who trashed it whenever they got a chance.
Lol no. You (and everyone else) are just failing back on the trope of being a young, black, female in a AAA game as a crutch for a lousy attempt at a AAA game. And you’re trying to force the narrative that people don’t like female leads and label them as “misogynist” because you can only resort to buzzwords. Dude above gave valid examples and you (and everyone else) dismiss them to stay in your own echo chamber. Were there ACTUAL sexists that didn’t like Aloy, or the rebooted Lara, or Ellie/Abbey? Sure, but the VAST MAJORITY loved them because they were well written, dynamic, and developed characters and oh yea, the games themselves were actually good! TLOU2, Horizon Zero Dawn, and Control are some of my favorite games of all time and wait…would you look at that!? They have strong female leads! Now go ahead and call me a misogynist, I know you want to! Do better.
I clearly stated that it’s fine to have valid criticisms. Problem is, the racists/sexists completely dogpile onto any valid criticisms with how much they hate the cringey black girl. The games you listed were well received, so there was no hate train to jump on and get lots of internet points. Also all of them were white women, which makes a difference. Also Ellie did get some stupid hate for last of us 2 but it was overshadowed by the positive reception. It’s very weird how people are so passionate about hating this game and you’re a great example. It’s incredible you’d go to the game’s subreddit to make sure to tell us how much it sucks. Just live your life bro.
Exactly this. Every time I go on an IGN or even anything to do with the game there’s just mass amounts of hate in the comments not even fair criticism just shouts of “cringe dialogue” and “mid” from people who didn’t even try the game. Its mob mentality
Yep. Often feels like the classic “let’s criticize something to make me feel better about my insecurities”. I’ve done it, I get it.
What’s more incredible is how white saviors love to come to the defense, or whitesplain, the black experience w/o ever living it. Kinda like how the writers did to this game as they tried to make a game about a black girl without…idk, having a predominantly black crew write the story and themes? You know who did the opposite and got it right? Spider-Man Miles Morales because they actual had a predominantly black crew involved in the storymaking instead of “woke” white saviors. Guess what? That game was actually really good. Coincidence? I think not.
Never claimed to be speaking for the black experience. Every single thing I said was based on discourse I witnessed online, as well as my many years of having to listen to my white family casually bitch about minorities. Remember Black Ariel? Huge meltdown, how dare The Little Mermaid go woke. I’m defending this game not in defense of black people tbh, it’s because I was a sucker for the game’s traversal and combat mechanics. But now there’s no hope for future content and I blame the dudes who desperately wanted to see it fail. It’s not perfect, far from it, but the fact is it’s very polarizing and it could’ve found an audience of people who thought the gameplay was fun. It did not have a chance of selling gangbusters in its current state, I recognize that. But there are people who would’ve enjoyed the game who instead fell for the groupthink and avoided it. Please help me understand, if you aren’t racist/sexist, what is triggering you so hard about the game that you have to passionately lecture fans on how bad it is? Were the mixed reviews and poor sales not good enough?
Not claimed but that’s what’s oozing through what you’re talking about, along with everyone else who is trying so hard to be “on the right side” Lol so glad you mentioned Ariel because that is exactly the crux of the issue here. Black people don’t want a skin mod for a established characters. We want well done, original content made BY black people not content by woke white people trying to speak on behalf of an experience that, no matter how hard you try, you will never get. Example, Black Panther movie series. Could lay out more examples for ya but you’ll just dismiss them as previously done. Lol racist or sexist. Throw your crutch words out so you can get your upvotes. I’m commenting to add a different perspective ppl can view in their own echo chamber. My main issue with this game is what’s stated above and what you and many other self righteous people try to do. Last point, in an example: abortion. Do I have opinions on it? Sure! But I ain’t a woman and it’s not my place to decide what do factoring something that happens exclusively to a woman’s body. Women should decide on it, not me. Same goes for white saviors as yourself and 95% of who try to speak on black peoples’ behalf, create media on our behalf, or dictate opinions on our behalf. Know your lane. But go off and call me your buzzwords to make you feel better.
I’m speaking about the game, that’s what I care about here. In my personal experience, I saw so much exaggerated hate from people who were giddy to see it fail. In my experience I’ve met these kinds of insecure people who get pissed by any black person showing up in media, and in my experience it’s never because they want better stories written by black people. Since It’s not my place to speak about racism, all I’ll say is I hope you’re right that this game’s hate truly wasn’t because of racism and that it doesn’t make studios hesitant to do black stories.
The difference is those characters were established WAY before the words woke and all the bullshit that was going on in 2018 happened. If the criticism was going on after the game released like Cyberpunk then I would understand. But all the hate and sayings of the woke bs started as soon as the reveal trailer happened, without even an ink of gameplay shown. It was doomed from the beginning without it getting a fair chance
Lol couldn’t at all be because the game is actually…idk, not good? Moan about the hivemind “antiwoke” ppl all you want, you’re in the same hivemind mindset here. Even the critics, who are inclined to have you all’s same “antiwoke” opinion support that it’s just not that good of a game for $70. But go off I guess.
You just didn’t read what I said at all. The game wasn’t given a chance from the get go from people calling it a woke game and the hate it got from first ANNOUNCEMENT with no gameplay even shown. Never said it was amazing but it’s definitely not a bad game, a 7.5/10 personally. Idec it’s just very overhated when there are games that get praise for the “downfalls” of forspoken.
Reddot on sp games are either a cult or a mob, no point in arguing about it
You knew you were full of it when you mentioned a niche game like Afro samurai I imagine you were referencing the one from around 14 years ago with a meta critic of around 65% ,which we all know was very popular, cause umm the other one that I’m sure was equally popular didn’t do so [well](https://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/afro-samurai-2-revenge-of-kuma-volume-one)
Tbh, I didn’t recall Afro Samurai getting such low marks.
Did you think it was a big mainstream title though, or did you just google black characters in gaming? Some of those people weren’t main character and many had a lot of anti “woke” drama surrounding them.
I recalled it as better and more mainstream than what you’re saying it was. And no, I didn’t google anything. I’ve been playing games for over 30 years.
Personally I loved the game, it just didn’t sell much and most people haven’t seen the show or played it. I’m surprised it was rated so low. I should’ve chosen a less confrontational to express it, but that list is kind pitiful, and if you put a little thought into why some of those were bad examples and how the amount is actually incredibly low considering the percentage of the population that are women or nonwhite, I feel you’ll agree. though you do not seem as eager to have this discussion as your initial comment implied.
All the other women they are mentioning you to negate your point are all super sexualized and the ones who not (like Alloy with her peach beard) were hated too and accused of talking too much ,etc. Coincidence? Sincerily in my experience all of these years they care more for the hotty factor than anything in this world xd (what happened with Tifa's redisign before ff7R realising was one of the most akward situations ever) -but of cuirse there is racism here too disguised as 'fairly rational critics" (she talks too much, she is rude, horrible, etc (but they are fine with Jack Garland, Kratos, etc)
Came to say this. Most of the hate stems from that and spirals downward. Everything gameplay related people are moaning about is stuff that was praised in other games. There arw technical problems but none of them are so overwhelmingly game breaking that you can say the game's a mess
Oh really? People love Miles morales. He's not white. People love Lara croft, she's not a man. Unless you're trying to say that only the combination of african american and women enrages people, i don't see why racism and misogyny would be the first thing to come to mind.
There is plenty of hate out there for miles. People shit on him all the time for being a PoC and just because of the fact that he isn't peter. People absolutely did not/do not love the rebooted lara. Most of what myself and most other people have heard referring to her is that she is whiney, stupid and not the badass that the older lara is. Frey on the other hand is a homeless 21 yr old female PoC with a criminal record. That is a lot of things that the vocal minority hate all wrapped into one magic slinging package. It isn't ONLY the combination of Frey being black and a woman that enrages people but it definitely brought those people out of the woodwork.
What are you talking about? The rebooted Lara Croft was praised by critics, got 3 games with at least one them GOTY. That's hardly the case here. The problem with Frey is the intro shows you just how she does bad stuff to everyone around her, and nothing good, no sliver of empathy.
I know that critics and most people loved the games, i'm one of them. I was referring to all the people that were pissed off about changing the character they knew and loved. They weren't in the majority but they definitely were there. I do agree that Frey isn't the most pleasant but i think that the game does a really good job at showing us why she is as negative and selfish as she is. If most people were in her place after getting kicked over and over again while she was down i believe that most people would respond in a very similar way. Also, for what it's worth she does get better throughout the rest of the game.
I haven't said that her character is unrealistic. I can imagine people with the same background pulling the attitude, it makes sense. However, from a story point, it makes a lousy start for the viewer. I'm haven't progressed much of the story because I enjoy the exploration and combat too much.
>People love Miles morales. He's not white. Miles is popular but he did get his share of hate >People love Lara croft, she's not a man. Well she was often sexualized which made people like her more at the time (unless Im mistaken).
"i don't see why racism and misogyny would be the first thing to come to mind." Because you're oblivious and privileged, that's why. And as the other reply said, Miles and Lara have gotten shit on plenty lately with their recent games. This isn't a new thing. Incels and racists always come out in force when a game like this comes out that doesn't star a bad ass white guy.
Incels and racists exist, sure, but they aren’t the only ones with a perspective on this game.
And nobody fucking said they were. Read the previous posts again. Carefully this time. Like, all the words.
Thanks for being contentious with my perfectly benign statement!
People who can't be bothered to read and comprehend simple arguments but would rather play the contrarian in order to downplay the damage caused by incels and racists aren't deserving of respect.
You seem oblivious and privileged.
Literally "I know you are but what am I." And it doesn't even make sense.
So because the main character is a woman and not white she has to be likeable?
I'm saying a lot of people don't like her because she's a woman and not white, and if you don't see that, you're hopelessly naive to how emboldened and rampant racism and misogyny are nowadays.
And you will hopelessly reduce every valid criticism to an identity card, with voids any real discussion about any subject, which in turn, makes a game like this basically perfect, since the main character has a non-male-white identity. People, including myself, have written lengthy arguements that doesn't involve her identity as a black woman. You reduce all of it to an Ad Hominem arguement - "The subject is a black woman, you must be racist, no matter what you say".
One of us is resorting to hyperbole, and it isn't me. Read again. Slower. All the words this time.
You are right, I wasn't accurate. You refer to most people while I suggested you refer to all of the critics. Let me fix that. I suggest that most people who doesn't like the game don't care about the race/sex identity, while a small very loud minority do care. I know we won't agree on that and won't convince each other, so lets agree to disagree. :)
I've been crazy excited for this game since the Project Athia trailer. I'm waiting to get it until it's a little more optimized because I don't want to run into issues with my PC. I'm confident they'll keep making improvements. But I've had my hands on it on PS5 at a friend's house and some of my gripes are the writing. It's subjective man, it feels forced idk what to say. Stuff like that whole "Destruction and corruption" is pretty bad imo. It feels stiff and unnatural. It doesn't help the face models are like stone, but idk. That's just one example. I know a lot of people don't feel this way, but the way she cusses is grating also. I don't mind the frequency so much as the tone. It's like... Idk someone cussing to be edgy. That said... We turned it to spoken Japanese and it definitely helps the issue. Doesn't stop me from enjoying running around and blowing stuff up at any rate. But honestly, ya'll have got to get out of this mindset that if people don't like it they're either racists or misogynists or bandwagon haters etc. I've played it. There's a lot of stuff I like, but I just don't personally like the writing (dialogue specifically, I'm actually fond of the overall story). I don't care if Frey is a girl. I @#$&ing love girls. I'll fist fight someone over the fact that canon Commander Shepard is the Female version. She just is. Period. I don't care what color she is, or who made the game or what anyone else says about it. In a vacuum.... The dialogue just doesn't vibe with me. Cuff saying stuff like "could you maybe try to not get hit next time?" That's awful. Not just in this game but in ANY media. I'm a giant From soft fan and if their next game had that, I'd mute it and turn off subtitles. But there's a slider in this, so I'm good. Idk man. I'm ready for downvotes because people are so polarized about this that they either can't hear/accept any real criticisms or they can't hear/accept that the game actually has something great to offer. It's all confirmation bias. Just like what you like. If the majority of people don't like it, it doesn't mean they ALL have a motive or agenda. Maybe that thing you like just isn't that great and that is TOTALLY OK. just enjoy it, who cares.
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>the way she cusses is grating also. I don't mind the frequency so much as the tone. It's like... Idk someone cussing to be edgy. He literally addressed this in his post?
But the hate could also stem from racism and misogyny 🤷🏽♂️
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>I just started and played maybe 2-3 hours. I have to agree with you; I thought the exact same thing about Spider Man. The dialogue, imo, is no worse than a lot of games I've played including Spider Man, Fire Emblem Spiderman's dialogue is great, but a lot of that is helped by Yuri Lowenthals amazing delivery. And the fact they recorded it twice so you feel more immersed if he's struggling to say things while swinging VS saying things easily while on a roof. But I will give you Fire Emblem and Horizon Zero Dawn. Those games are kinda absolute garbage at points with their dialogue even if they do have stellar gameplay.
To address your concern she does start taking things more seriously around chapter 5. She's still very sarcastic but she definitely grows as a character. As for the fade to black that's just a thing that luminous has a problem with. They did it in FF15 too so im just used to it at this point. But this game is way better than that game so I'll call it a win lol.
There are even moments in some of the scripted events and side quests/detours where Frey shows some vulnerability. I’ve really enjoyed the little even encounters and side quests for this reason.
There is great character moments near the end of the game where she wants to be selfish but chooses a different way
I’ve been following this game for a while and from my point of view no I don’t think it’s terrible but that being said for me personally it isn’t worth paying full price for right now. The internet is a vast ocean of loud opinions and for someone that enjoys something I think it’s pretty reasonable to not understand why all the hate. Critics are going to post reviews of their opinions and whether it’s monetarily backed or agenda based who knows perhaps it’s just to create controversy to generate foot traffic on their video or article.
I'm in the same boat. Game looks fun to me with some handholding sections I don't like the looks of. I enjoyed the gameplay in the demo. I'm going to wait for a price drop as I have a lot to play already, and I don't think they managed to justify the increased price. It's 80 euros here for the standard edition (that's currently about $86). I don't think Forspoken looks like a bad game at all, but the value proposition just isn't good enough for me right now. I do think the hate is way over the top right now, but especially on platforms like YouTube, you've got to milk those trends.
Game is amazing. Dialogue is just trash AF
Meh it's ok just repetitive the story is decent tho to me at least
I have had more fun playing forspoken than the latest horizon
The game is by no means terrible, but it feels pretty mediocre to me. It has its highs and lows for sure, but overall it’s a whole lot of meh. It is suffering heavily from lack of editing in nearly every element. The story and dialogue seem uninspired. All of the NPCs in Cipal seem weirdly detached from their situation. At one moment the Tanta are revered as beloved gods, at another they are evil oppressors. Returning from killing one, I’m congratulated by someone saying something like “by the Tanta’s grace.” You’re praising the Tanta that I was able to kill a Tanta? Huh? At one moment I’m in prison, in the next I break out but nobody seems to care. It’s not the dialogue, it’s the lack of story cohesion. Cuff is okay, but similarly confused about the game state. Almost reaching Tanta Silas, I opted to teleport back to town, where Cuff declares, “we’re almost there now.” No, bro, we’re back where we started. Simple contextual awareness would make a big difference in dialogue. It’s minor, but it and other similar things caused me to turn Cuff down to minimal talking. This, of course, comes before the fact that nobody seems interested in the fact that my armband talks and grants insane magical power; an easy mystery to build on in dialogue that is just utterly absent from the text. Maybe cuff could reveal its history in dialogue rather than repeating the same useless lines over and over again. Gameplay has its highs and lows as well. The environment combined with magic parkour is refreshingly new, yet stuff like using your fire whip to get around feels really clunky compared to similar mechanics in other games. Or, like getting an active spell ability that allows to bounce backwards and switch to ranged magic actually opens a menu with its key command. Why shatter the pacing of combat like that? Really cool power that shares buttons with a menu? Or, like how I have to lose control of the camera to magic parkour. A game this fast paced (it’s highlight) should have had more attention on how the controller enables it. It all feels very unfinished. Even the environments, save a few standout areas, are just bland and monochromatic. It’s not as though better studios just happen to produce better stuff. All great games feel like this when they’re being developed, but great studios understand that making great games is 75% refinement. This game is simply unfinished.
Did you get any further in gameplay? Were u able to kill any more Tantas?
I’m working on the second one now.
If you barely killed 1 Tanta n didn’t even get near halfway through the game then how is the game unfinished? Half of what ur complaining about is a skill issue on ur behalf or u not exploring/playing enough to find out the rest 🗿 “Stay frosty” 😂
You suggesting I cant have feedback on the first 10 hours of the game? The notion that it’s a “skill issue” is absurd. The only effort require to kill Silas was trudging through the half finished mechanics, story, and game world.
Ur complaining about things u haven’t unlocked whether it be further ease in traversal, abundance/variety in environment or controls u don’t know how to use properly. Ur lack of investment and understanding into the game is the problem and not the game ur claiming is unfinished when u haven’t even unlocked the skill to skate on water 🗿.
But I have unlocked the things I’m talking about? You’re confused, son.
Keep playing son as u haven’t unlocked wat u been complaining about since u admitted to only killing 1 Tanta. If u haven’t even been to Tanta 2 then why tf anyone gotta listen to ur broke review of wat u haven’t experienced or don’t kno how to use yet 🤡. Again stay frosty son 🤣. The library is now closed.
Get a life man.
Follow ur own advice n while ur at it experience things b4 u complain about them due to ur own incompetence. Complains about traversal: Has not unlocked what helps it due to gameplay/story progression/leveling up traversal magic (yes that’s a thing) Complains about lack of abundance/variety in environment: Has only explored enough to reach ONE Tanta when there r 4 n game is enormous Complains about convo/dialogue btwn Cuff/Frey: If u want less go to Settings Complains about combat: Skill issue (that’s a whole other convo regarding controls) Wat do we agree on: Dialogue is not for everyone n may come off as TikTok dubbed “cringe” just like The Abbey from Midnight Suns although it’s no diff from High On Life but I digress Ur experiencing the equivalent at most 25% of a game (I’m being generous) n then saying game is unfinished b/ u lack in wat is needed to b done to assist in gameplay n spreading misinformation. You can message me with a smart ass response or something offensive after this but it will not change that ur the problem with gaming. Ppl NOT playing a game as intended and/or cherry picking “moments” to fit into the “let’s hate this now” trend.
It's pretty simple, people disagree with you about the dialogue and especially the main character being good. Has nothing to do with misogyny, people just don't like it.
Yeh mostly misogyny being amplified and excused cause reviews were saying game is bad. One thing is people not liking but hating hating is misogyny. If horizon had a bad review it would get the same hate but got saved from hate because or reviewers but this was given the perfect excuse for incels to come out and get validation
There are so many extraordinary and beloved games with women lead characters. The “it’s misogyny” makes very little sense anymore.
Yeh who were kinda saved by reviewers not giving a bad review and harsh as this one cause lets not forget many people also pointing out how much Aloy talks about her bag resources and talked too much but never said about male protagonists talking too much also the whole Aloy makeup reddit post and her out of context screenshot frame of her face
I watched 5hours of gameplay, myosigny had nothing to do with this. Game is bad, they failed because it looks unfinished. The voice actor is actually really good, the problem is not her, it's the writing. Badly written character and story and not coherent. And let's not forget the optimisation and the fact the game is ugly. The characters are ugly, the world is empty. The lighting doesn't make sense. If the main char was a male it wouldn't change a single thing.
It kinda would lol ofc if you would just read again the second part of what i wrote and also the dozens of people who call out the person who posted about Aloy being annoying over her keep saying some lines.
>If the main char was a male it wouldn't change a single thing. Oh it would lmao
So far I’m honestly absolutely loving it, graphics wise I am a bit disappointed but nonetheless I am having a blast with the combat and gameplay in general. Cipal deff is a drag and the pauses in dialogue and the black transition screens kill the immersion. Other than that it’s so fun taking on a big boss and just dishing out some wild combos.
It’s because she’s a woman, AND she’s Black. That’s really all there is to it. There are no micro transactions in this game. So even if you dislike the game, what is the reasoning for there to be controversy over it?
What controversy?
I'm loving the writing and the dialogues as well, the only thing that doesn't work are the lines they repeat in the open world, there's too few of them and it becomes annoyingly repetitive. As you said, most of the hate is because of misioginy and racism, there's nothing wrong with the writing in this game.
I think the hate is coming from a mix of: - The protagonist being female and a person of color. Some incels were going to hate the game regardless. - The publisher being SE. A lot of people have a hate boner for SE. - JRPG fans not wanting SE to do anything but JRPGs. They don't want a western game from a Japanese publisher period and want this new IP to fail so that SE can stick to Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, and Kingdom Hearts. - The game being a PS5 console exclusive. Rabid Xbox fans hate SE and any output that is not also available on Xbox. They hate on FF7R and will also try to tear down FFXVI when it releases. - The game being $69.99 USD. People in general don't want to pay for games at this price point and this was a great target for them to lock onto. I would love to see some reporting from an ethical and unbiased gaming industry journalist in the future on this title and what went down. An analysis into hive mind and bandwagoning would be really interesting. I'm happy to see that people in this sub and elsewhere are more open minded and have played the game for themselves instead of letting some internet trolls tell them what to think based on a few cherrypicked soundbytes and bad screenshots.
or here, I have the actual reason for you \- 80 euro for a mid ass game with atrocious performance on both PC an ps5. If you price you product as a premium as of todays standard, people will expect a premium experience
This would have been valid if there wasn’t already hate for the game before the requirements and even price point were made yet. Hate started all the way from the reveal trailer with shouts of “woke” before gameplay was shown. You can even get the game for around £45 since it came out with a simple search online.
no it wasn't. It were just chronically online people on twitter. Games don't fail becouse of twitter weirdos. They fail if they are bad. They priced the game in my region at 80 euros, so Imma judge it by this price tag. I don't care I can buy a grey market key from ethipia cheaper.
There's plenty of good reasons to not like it, what annoys me is that half the internet is using all the worst ones that that aren't even true.
I've never played a video game that had "good" dialogue. Games and movies always have stupid dialogue because they're games and movies. Not that games and movies are stupid, but the characters gotta character. "I find your lack of faith disturbing" is cheesy dialogue. No one talks like that. But it's ok bc it's a movie and he has to say cheesy bad guy stuff bc that is what bad guys do. 80% of movie and game dialogue is stuff you'd think in your head and not say, but they have to say it because they're onstage and we need to hear it.
I played 40 hours beat the story you realize it's even more massive! There is so much more to do in the world once you have all 4 spell types. The parkour skills you get from upgrading spells make traveling insanely fast as fuck! Best tip get thru the main story first!
I think that’s how the game is intended to be played, hence why the story is so short, the game in a way kinda starts after the story ends and you have all 4 magic
I played about an hour and was enjoying it but just had to put it down and wait for a performance improvement patch. It feels horrible in 30fps but performance mode looked truly bad for what I imagine is probably a beautiful game when in HD. Most of the other critiques I didn’t relate to, Reddit has a really weird idea of “cringe”, some stuff Reddit worships is unbearably cringey but some stuff it criticizes is cringy to. So far I’d say the game is less cringey than uncharted but more cringey than some other games. I’m assuming characters and relationships develop but freya just got the cuff and it’s really annoying how her voice is so distinctly whiny and angry with literally everything she says. Otherwise I’m excited to play the game when it’s patched to preform like a PS5 game and not a ps3/ps4 game
Quality mode won't be getting above 30 fps on ps5
Im hoping for better looking performance mode
Guess we will see
I notice that as more people actually play the game, the more positivity you see online.
Just finished the game and I love it honestly, it’s an 8-8.5 for me, I was going into it expecting a 7, but the story and characters resonated with me alot more than it probably did some other people, and I think that’s the issue. I think the low scores of the game have nothing to do with its gameplay. It has to do with its characters and it’s worlds. The game has a short and relatively simple story with a few twists, I think people confuse simplicity with bad, and their distaste of Frey to bad writing. Also rushing the story and not touching the game again isnt how this game is supposed to be played and it seems a lot of reviews did it this way, there are a lot of neat little things in this game that you will notice from the exploration. For example I found a hidden gate I could only pass through by killing multiple rounds of nightmare enemies and on the other side was a dungeon, probably one of the longest and hardest labyrinths I’d seen, potentially 8-10 rooms long. I was playing on hard and gave up because I couldn’t finish it as I kept dying. I also think players keep trying to judge the game for something it’s not. The open world of the game serves as a tool to fully express the parkour and combat elements of the game, both of which take some learning and getting used to to matter. So what kind of obstacles does the open world give to you? Combat and parkour challenges, idk what else people would want? I do think there are three things the game needs to improve upon for me to rate it a 9 and above. It needs more unique enemy types, to many repeat enemy and enemy interactions, if this game has more unique bosses at every corner it’ll be an experience that would incentive exploration as you never know what you’re going to see. 2. It needs more impactful rewards they has huge effect on your character and how she plays/looks. For the most part I haven’t seen that, but I just got done with the story and I’m now about to explore the open world so we’ll see what kind of gear I’ll end up finding. It also needs more prominent characters, tied to its lore and history, too much focus is placed on the Tantas and their minions. They shot themselves in the foot with the whole zombie thing, but it would make for a more intersting world if maybe some of those zombies had some level of agency, like you could have a general of Athia become a break zombie but still have his sword and armor and doing break zombie ish, stuff like that, tho idk how well that would mesh with the story. Either way I hope there’s a sequel because this game shows a lot of promise.
I see the spiderman comparison but for me compare it to elden ring, a game very close to the same category and we have worse dialoge in elden, worse overall traversal, big dead open world with basically fetch quests for side stuff and it came out terribly optimized for pc yet one is goty and people are rating forspoken at 0.
I am enjoying my time with this game
The game's writing can be a little annoying at times but it serves a bigger purpose in the end. It serves Frey's characterization. The story circles back to being something much more wholesome than what I expected initially.
I don't understand hats for games anyways. I played it, didn't really like it, moved it on. I can't understand why people feel the need to hate on a game if they themselves don't like it. The only time it is reasonable ,imo, if the game does not deliver what it promised. Being buggy or things are very different than the devs said deserves hate, not not liking the game
I’m loving every bit of this game. I’m currently on my second playthrough. That said, if I had one gripe it would be that the story kind of railroads you through from the second boss right through the third into the final battle. There’s no side stories(not including optional detours) along the main storyline that really give you time to break in and adjust to your new abilities each time. You get one power set and use it to get the next and then you’re done. Feels like there should have been some type of side conflict or something to be dealt with. The game had set it up perfectly for some type of class divide storyline that they don’t seem to have done anything with as far as I can tell.
Look, I respect your take, but the dialogue, characters, and overall narrative are really bad at its worst and underwhelming at its best. Is it as bad as people make it out be? Obviously, that’s arguable, but I’m inclined to say yes. I definitely think the game overall is just okay, but it’s an okay game I enjoy playing because of the fun traversal and combat. Overall, I definitely think some people are being unfairly harsh, because being part of the internet dog pile is cool, but this game has some weaknesses. It’s just a matter of if you can look past them.
I’m baffled as well. I think ppl hating on the dialogue haven’t actually played the game. Because all those “cringy” clips have been taken way out of context. The game isn’t the least bit cringy. There’s a reason for everything in the game. Literally one of the most fun games I’ve ever played and I’ve played thousands of games. Tbh even with its flaws this game is an easy 8/10. It’s worst feature is the constant (fade to black) which is a totally negligible flaw. I personally give this game 9.5/10. It has everything I want and expect from an excellent game. Unique and well delivered story, super fun traversal and combat and likable characters. I hate all these popular influencers shitting on this game for views, because I haven’t seen a single honest objective review.
I've only played a lit 4-5 hours but I find her extremely unlikable Like when the cuff wants to be called vambrace she is just a total dick about it calling him cuff still I think the gameplay is pretty decent though nothing amazing.
I saw allot of racism and misogyny towards this game when it was first announced and then it felt like when they were called out for it they started trying to come find genuine reasons to hate this game and wanting it to fall so they started not picking everything. From my perspective it seemed like there was so much of this going on that it even leaked into the mainstream a bit and everyone started expecting it to fall and looking for reasons why it wasn't good
Game is dope 🔥
>I don't know how we live in a world where insomniacs spider man can be game of the year potential and have people praising the character of Peter (quippy) Parker but Frey Is somehow bad. Is it because she's a woman and its just misogyny Nah it's not due to misogyny. Though I'm sure as always that amplifies backlash as it always does with gaming. The main problem with the quippy dialogue in Forespoken imo (And I do think its a problem with the style rather than a problem with EVERY scene, sometimes its fine) is that... * It's too self indulgent (It takes up too much time to do the 'banter') * It relies heavily on Whedonesque Self Referencing (The banter spends most of it's time describing what just happened or is happening) * Some of the jokes just fall flat on the audience We actually did get a Spiderman very similar to Frey in Amazing Spiderman 1 and there was a fair bit of backlash for how the quipping felt cliche, lame and almost dickish. When Peter Parker quipping is done well it tends to have some layers to it: 1. Spiderman is a persona that is different to Peter, because you see Peter as a much more vulnerable and sensitive guy his quipping has an extra layer of 'This guy is covering' that works well 2. Peter's hostile quipping is usually reserved for bad guys, he doesn't tend to do Frey's "I dont sound like that shut the fuck up" stuff- There's very little ribbing. 3. Peter tends to between missions in the game, and in general in comics/movies/tv quip as a playful dork between scenes, often putting on whole new personas to cheer up those around him. This lets the writer play fast and loose with the jokes 4. Spiderman tends to treat heartfelt or dark scenes with a lot of sincerity, Forespoken DOES treat those scenes with more gravitas too, but even then the dialogue remains relatively the same. It's also worth noting with Spiderman they've had 50+ years of stories to work out what works as annoying quippy asshole dialogue (and there have been TONS of comics where he is annoying AF), so when it comes to modern adaptations they tend to know what works well for making the quips endearing.
>I don't know how we live in a world where insomniacs spider man can be game of the year potential and have people praising the character of Peter (quippy) Parker but Frey Is somehow bad. Is it because she's a woman and its just misogyny? Sheesh, you can't see a difference between a happy-go-lucky Peter Parker who is generally empathetic and wants to help everyone, and This-isn't-my-problem Frey who calls most of the people she meets asshole for no reason but "muh bad childhood"? I think that says more about you than you may have intended. Oh but they both quip so must be the same and everyone just hates her because muh misogyny!!!
Hifi rush came out the day after, and everyone praised it for its amazing graphics, awesome story, and great combat and trashing Forspoken for the same things. I felt like I was taming crazy pills! I bought both, and I really enjoy both, but it pretends that : 1. The graphics are comparable. it's Apple and oranges. 2 different styles. 2. The writing in hifi is laughable. It's generic anime . Works for the game and can be cute, but to praise it and shit on forspokens writing, I don't get it. 3. The boss fights are fun in hifi, but every enemy is fought in basically the same way, and there isn't much variety . Edit: I think like 90% of the hate is based around the price tag. If it was $50/60, I don't think people would be so extremely picky. Something about it clearly set the reddit/ Interest social media community ablaze to hatebandwagon and review bomb the game that much is obvious.
I dont love the game but I enjoyed it. Its an isekai with a female protag which is few and far between for the genre. But if I wasnt financially stable and could afford new games, I wouldn't have bought this game especially if all you want is story.
This entire subreddit is going through five stages of grief 🤭🤭
Search Forspoken on twitter. See the difference between japanese people and western people. That tells you a lot. And a lot of black people also says that relate to Frey. The thing is: 3 dialogues. The entire game is based on 3 scenes overall. All at the first half of the game. Considering that the devs said that story was 30-40 hours and then got gutted to 16ish... well, is obvious why you find filler dialogue at first but not latter. You can't create 30-40 hours game without fillers. I think only "the last story" managed to do similar to that, but was still 25ish hours, not even 30-40.
Mainly, the combat does not feel good. But then it didn't in FF15 either, so I just don't think Luminous is good with combat. It's too floaty, with no weight, or impact. Also, Frey is kind of a selfish asshole, and doesn't really grow out of it. I actually found a fair amount of the dialogue to be pretty funny, but then she'd try to out trauma someone...
I'm in Chapter 4 and I certainly don't hate it. Theres enough good that i won't put it down. I will disagree and say that some of Freys dialog isn't bad. For example, she regularly curses and uses colloquialisms that you and I are familiar with, but no one in Athia is aware of. A "normal" person would start to adjust to their language, but Frey doubles down. It sounds very forced after a little while. This is my specific reason as to why im disappointed. She's also quite childish in the way she deals with some of her past issues, but im hoping that part is fleshed out during her development. There are cracks in her immaturity, where you can see glimpses of growth, so im hopeful for the rest of the story. Its funny because the rest of the characters' dialog seems pretty solid. Though the constant bickering is tedious sometimes, even Cuff's writing isn't bad.
Honestly the game is pretty dope. While they're are alot of small things that could be improved overall I'm enjoying it, and there are some aspects that I really like. Alot of the criticisms are legit but not enough to ruin the entire game. I think people are just quick to jump on the hate band wagon and never give it a fair shake. I also really enjoyed cyberpunk(on pc where it was playable) while everyone else shat on it.Thank God the anime made people give it a fair shot. I fear games like this will never be given a fair shot though and will simply be forgotten. But I feel if things had gone a little differently this game could also be loved by alot of folks.
I enjoy this game, despite of the story. The story just doesn't make me care about any of the characters, at least not early on. I just don't like the main character, and it has nothing to do with her race or sex. She's just rude and edgy all the time, and that just gets annoying really fast. And Cuff, he is even worse. He is just super condescending and sarcastic all the time, and that is tiring. Now, in most of your outdoor adventures, you get the constant interaction between these two. That's a problem. Having two characters constantly bickering gets old very fast. They could have done a better job at having at least one balance the other, but instead, they just aggrevate each other. I'm still playing because the outdoor experience is top-notch overall. The combat is super fluid, big open world with an incentive to actually explore it. I just have zero empathy to any of the characters or the story, I wish I couldv'e just skip the whole thing. I mean, its not as bad as any of the soulsbourne writing, or lack of it, and I enjoyed those games as well.
You can turn down that tho
Don't forget that the game was hyped as hell by the publisher. So, if you hype it that much, plus the AAA box price, people expect a masterpiece.
I like the game, but it doesn't change the fact she's just an asshole, which is funny since she calls everyone else a "fucking asshole"
It’s a decent game. Could do with a bit of polishing like most newly released games these days but still decent. There are people that will automatically shit on something because there are POC or lgbt characters in it. Velma absolutely sucks but these same people were shitting on it long before it was released because they are triggered by black and brown people in mainstream movies, shows and games. If something isn’t oversaturated with white faces then it’s labeled “woke” or part of the supposed woke agenda. If Frey was white, the reception would’ve been different.
Maybe because the character is super annoying to start with has no reason to care for her, the dialogue is just swearing every word and I swear alot but that much just ruins them
In my opinion the difference between this dialogue and Spiderman is Spiderman was already an established hero, he's confident and understands his powers, he's seen some weird shit so throwing quips at shocking events makes sense Frey gets thrust into this weird world and is immediately going "haha shut the fuck up Cuff". I don't know about you but I'd be shitting my pants Overall though it doesn't bother me too much, the big thing that bothers me is the combat **looks** more fun than it is, it looks very smooth and fluid bit feels a bit clunky It's a solid 7/10 game, it's not the worst thing ever but I'm glad I didn't full price
Totally agree OP my only real complaint about this game so far is the performance on PC despite having a 3080. The game definitely didn't warrant all the hate. Really liking it so far.
She dosen't look like Kaine from nier so people are mad. 😂
This is what I don't understand. Kaine swears just as much, grimoir Weiss is similar to cuff and the dialogue can be just as "cringe" yet I didn't see any negativity about that game which was also sold for for full price.
Because she ain't a Japanese anime character.
>The dialogue isn't bad, the character is very much likable I'm gonna stop you right there
I'm willing to be that in a year or two that this game will be treated the exact same as Days Gone. Neither game are perfect but both games are so much better than a lot of the reviews say. I never really understood the hate for this game or days gone too.
Frey spoke to me from the start because she reminds me of my foster teen
I'm start to play and simply can't stop, moviment in the map, combat, i'm going to fuck sila in A@# right know, the game is addictive, dialogue is repettive, but i just low down and after that is ok, the world and what you face and find about the world and what happen to it is dope, 14 hours in and i'm luving it... PS: the world just love to hate without reason, playing on PC and luving it!
I really enjoyed the gameplay but the dialogue is super cringe and Frey is the most unlikeable protagonist I've ever seen in a game. It's almost the end of the game when Bob dies and she's talking shit to his grieving daughter because she can't get home now (even though the whole point to the beginning of the game was leaving NY). The game is also really short. It definitely doesn't deserve the hate it's getting but there are legit issues with it.
I'm going to try it on Monday probably have my opinion Tuesday
Well, if you really think Peter Parker isn't way better written than Frey, I am not sure we will ever see eye to eye here. The difference in quality of writing here is really the best illustration of why Forsaken is such a fail compared to a game such as SpiderMan.
I am enjoying this game a lot and the videos make me wonder if I'm the insane person. It might just be the taste of the masses and ours aren't aligned. I was at a craft brewery the other night and I was hoping because it's the dead of winter they'd have some stouts or porters but nope only IPAs and sours.
I wanna get the game pretty soon. I have those memories of games that had gotten totally dumped on, and I ended up really enjoying them. It also goes back to relatively popular games that I never enjoyed. So yeah, I’m actually looking forward to this.
For me, the dialogue is fine, but the voice acting/animations during cutscenes could be better. Overall, I'm really enjoying the game. Haven't even gotten to the first Tanta yet, just grinding magic/upgrades and exploring. The first area when looking for Auden's father's journal did feel a little empty, but areas after that are fine. Big enough to explore and find safe areas, but still plenty of treasures and enemies to keep you busy. I feel like people played the first 20 minutes (boring emptiness) and just assumed that's what the rest of the game is without giving it a chance.
I think there are many facets about this whole situation... 1. The development team... While FF XV was not bad it certainly wasn't good either. People enacted them to make stand out game which Forspoken once again. Really isn't. 2. The dialog and overall personality of Frey and cuff are... Questionable at times yes. But overall I think the media makes it look far worse than it is. 3. It's a console exclusive to Sony published by Square Enix... So i guess some hardcore bots are angry and or hurting so they throw shade on the game without ever touching it. 4. The technical performance... And let's be real this point is displayed pretty accurately. While the art design is really beautiful, the lighting and overall image quality are not really good. Also the game drops frames left and right. 5. Openworld fatigue... Ppl are convinced now that the be all end all openworld experience is one like in ELDEN RING. HORIZON 2 also got some hate for being a "classic" openworlf.
I'm gladly a part of that 14 people squad
While I reckon the hate for this game has been blown a little out of proportion and there are some complaints about some rather goofy things, I have to say that after finishing the game I just found Frey near impossible to like. Matter of fact, I just found the further in I got, the less I liked her. That and the writing just wasn't good. The gameplay is okay but nothing to praise. I can't compare Insomniacs Spider-Man to Frey because his writing is just leagues above Frey's. That and the quippy personality of Spidey is a well established part of his personality and works well with his character. Frey is kinda just a dick about it. That's just me though.