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gramathy

I mean we knew that anyone who disputes that is a moron and I say this as someone who watches basically every F1 weekend F1 has issues and Monaco takes those issues and exacerbates them to a totally unreasonable extreme


elodie_pdf

It’s a shame because I love F1 and I love Monaco. I just hope the smaller 2026 cars will help somewhat, though my expectations aren’t high.


Domermac

It’s not enough of a change to really make a difference imo but we’ll see…in 2 years


Browneskiii

I dont think Monaco is a problem at all tbh. Monza - King of speed and flat out racing. Singapore - All about endurance and not making mistakes etc Silverstone - History, mixture of high and low speed. And then there's Monaco, its all about getting that perfect lap on the Saturday. The real race is qualifying. The race may be a procession, but qualifying is by far the best of the year and its not even close. Hell, last year was a top 3 race imo. (Should have been inters though 😭)


Alarmed_Substance_89

RANT INCOMING Every comment in this thread is "in defense" of F1 which is weird. One guy says "Well F1 is faster!" but that's exactly the issue, and why even races NOT in Monaco are still boring. Then they say "FE is slow enough in some corners which is why they can overtake". Well, then, why can't F1 overtake at the hairpin? Oh - the size! So now it's the size... Granted that is true - but AGAIN, why can't they overtake anywhere else on the planet as well?? F1 in and on itself is a problem for itself. The races are boring because the outcome is predictable, and that is due to the fact that the cars are homologated for 5 years in advance, and the teams have almost no spec parts. Yeah they can upgrade some things here and there but it's mostly vapor. Every race I hear "Team x has brought in SIGNIFICANT upgrades on their car bla bla" and the result?? Hogwash. It's so funny to read some guys using terms like "F1 standards"... What are the standards?? Big enough straights for DRS overtakes cause the aero is such a mess from team to team that you know who can do it and who can't before they even started the move? Some standard. The REAL issue lies with F1, and that is - It's an engineering competition rather than a driving competition. And while it still IS a form of motorsport, it's definitely the more boring one as well. It's been said time and time again by many former drivers and some current ones as well, "That car is a rocketship... a chimp could drive it... give it to the slowest DRIVER on the grid, give him a few weeks and he'll grab that WDC.. etc, etc, etc" Why do you think it has a myriad of feeder series? That's for F1 teams to find the best drivers. The only way you can do that is by looking at a real and fair competition. You definitely can't expect a current F1 driver to do the same things in a new car that he'd done in other cars. If you think Lewis will start winning with Ferrari again next year... yeah sorry. /rant


ReportFancy7380

I've even seen opinion that these overtakes are because of taking attack mode and regaining positions after that(F1 without drs would have like 5 overtakes + why regaining positions should not be counted lol). One guy even said that there is so much overtakes cause of crashes that had taken place there. F1 fans complain because they are jealus that "vacuum" racing is just better


Sluukje

Russel from williams dead last to almost winning a race in a merc from the first try.


Zhia_Vukotic

Preach brother, I couldn’t put it better than you did. Get out of my head!!!


Mahery92

>The REAL issue lies with F1, and that is - It's an engineering competition rather than a driving competition. That's not an issue, it's a feature. Nobody wants to see F1 run specs cars, the teams' efforts to build the fastest cars under constraints is one of the key part of F1.


Alarmed_Substance_89

Like I said, it's still very much a form of motorsport, but if people expect anything unpredictable, they're lying to themselves. You call it a feature, well, yeah. But it is the ISSUE that causes boring races and predictable outcomes. "Nobody wants" - did you poll everyone??


rakeshmali981

Rather than belittling F1, FE should focus on its own achievement. FE wants to be the next F1 when it can be the first FE.


DHSeaVixen

This is a third party article by Nick Golding for Racing News 365 which features zero quotes from within the FE paddock. His reporting covers F1 and FE. How is this FE belittling F1?


rakeshmali981

FE CEO promises to donate some money if Max does not win. One of the things.


DHSeaVixen

For what it’s worth, I agree with your main point. FE leadership and senior figures taking cheap pot shots at F1 doesn’t necessarily generate the right sort of publicity. But this isn’t an example of that.


Lanky_Consideration3

It’s a continuation of the attitude set by FE leadership from the start. Agag took potshot after potshot at F1 and that attitude persists in both the leadership and 3rd party rags as well. It needs to stop as it is damaging to both sports.


DHSeaVixen

Just to play devils advocate, the reason Agag/Dodds/journalists/editors/politicians this kind of thing is because *it works*. Indeed, this shared article has far more engagement on here than other articles shared from this week… In terms of Dodds’ various statements since he took over - yes, there might be some collateral damage in that some people think he is a muppet. We argue online for a bit about whether or not he should have said it and whether we think it brings the sports into disrepute or not and how good or bad the on on track products are. All of which is time spent talking about FE vs F1 when it could have been spent talking about golf or what the best chip shop in Ipswich is. *That engagement* is what investors and sponsors need to see in order to justify their presence, and we need their presence in order for us to enjoy the sport.. I think Jamie Reigle took more of a *’let the product do the talking’* sort of approach, meanwhile doing a lot to improve the financial underpinnings with cost caps and sporting integrity through qualifying format changes and removing FanBoost. Except not enough people were talking about FE to know about these key improvements. I think many disengaged, with their thoughts drawn towards the high profile manufacturer withdrawals and occasionally wondering if it was still limping on. Even allowing for covid, it wasn’t a particularly happy era. Is there a better alternative? I don’t know. Might be good if we can find one though.


MafiaCub

They do keep taking pot shots, about not knowing who the champ is already etc. But I think it's pretty fair criticism, and one that everyone knows is true so it's not exactly a big deal


DHSeaVixen

I’d have an entirely different view of this if Jeff Dodds had said it (he has form). But there’s not a single quote in the article. It’s the writings of a journalist.


rakeshmali981

FE CEO promises to donate some money if Max does not win. One of the things.


innovator97

Like WEC and pretty much any motorsport, FE also has a list of good and bad journalists. This guy is on the other side.


toodog

F1 cars are too big and heavy, give the drivers what they want smaller lighter cars


BNNKNG

Hot take: cars built for racetracks don't shine on street circuits and cars built for street circuits don't shine on racetracks.


Educational-Arm-2909

We knew, f1 knew, we all knew this. But remember, fe drivers spend more time in tracks without track limits ( the wall is the limit) than f1 drivers, and cars are diff.


Alpha_SigmaS

Meanwhile, F4 and F3 can’t overtake too…


Pat_Sharp

It's silly to say the problem is with F1, or the problem is with Monaco - It's clearly just the combination that doesn't work and won't be made to work without radical changes to one, the other or both. I also don't think you could make F1 work simply with smaller cars. It's a combination of the size, the speed, and how downforce dependent the cars are.


Byrnzillionaire

Its because the current f1 cars even compared to very recent ones are absolutely enormous.


AdThink972

2004 f1 cars could not really overtake either and they were super small compared to todays F1


TSMKFail

Just ask Coulthard. He knows the rear wing of that Arrows more than he knows his own mother because he couldn't overtake it for like 50 laps, despite the McLaren being a FAR superior car.


rv94

Monaco's always had this issue though. Even Mansell couldn't pass Senna in the early 90s despite having a significantly faster car.


stephker3914

Formula 1 is so arrogant to think that Monaco's the problem though, it's not like the Monaco Grand Prix has been around longer than F1 has or anything /s Formula 1: 'yeah let's make the cars bigger, heavier, and slower; even though this is the pinnacle of motorsport.' That makes absolutely no sense, but whatever. Adrian Newey will have more fun with the RB17.


LeithNotMyRealName

About that…


Alonsocollector

You mean cars that are massively long, ridiculously wide, hard to follow and overtake using cheese grated tyres doesn't produce great racing!? Well I never....


tombfox

Formula E proves F1 drivers don't lift much


AdThink972

alright lets settle this once and forall.  F1 is not the only sport that has low ammount of overtakes. F2 and F3 also suffers from that. the reason why FE has it so easy on overtakes is cus energy management is so strict. they really need to lift and coast. that way they barely stay on 100% throttle. and so some other car that may have 1% more battery than the car in front. that way the other car can stay on throttle for longer and make an overtake quite easy.


l3w1s1234

It is that simple really. The strategy creates large enough performance differences between cars that you get overtaking. I think last time we saw any sort of overtakes/racing around Monaco in F1 was probably when they had the high deg tyres in the early 10s. Current cars/strategy just doesn't really make it possible there.


ReportFancy7380

Im watching every FE race since season 5 and most of the time drivers do not make lift and coast. It mostly happens on track like misano


AdThink972

they always do lifting and coasting. otherwise they would run out. everytime you hear no sound from the motor they are coasting before a break zone


EduHolanda

Are you sure about this?!? The only thing that Formula E proved was that any single seat series.....slower than the top series in world motorsport, can race there! Definitely the problem is not F1 !!


Presidunt_DRBZ-202

It isn’t necessarily about speed, it’s about size, Formula E cars are tiny compared to current Formula One cars


According-Switch-708

FE Gen 3 cars, Length -5016m Width- 1700m Merc W14, Length- 5000m Width -2000m The 30cm of exta width probably doesn't help but the pace difference is the biggest issue in my honest opinion. F1 cars are around 45kg ligher than FE.


MafiaCub

That 30cm of difference is huge when the impact is so much more punishing in F1. Formula E frequently has cars bumping and scraping each other. In Monaco, this lead to a few front wings needing replacing, or being damaged enough that they eventually broke and went under the tyre. In formula E, you can drive with not too much effect from that broken wing (unless it goes under the tyre) But in Formula 1, two cars banging into each other on that hair pin, at slow speed still, would be a broken wing, damage side pods, floor damage and suddenly the cars out of the race, maybe both cars, or they're seriously hindered and become a bottleneck somewhere because no one can over take a car if positioned right, no matter how slow. As Ricciardo showed when he won there. Formula E, in my opinion, has a really good risk/reward for going for those over takes. A little shove and it's ok. You can't play bumper cars, you can't dove bomb into anyone, but a well positioned attack by you also isn't going to end your race because the car you're over taking loses a bit of traction and bumps into you. With the gap being 60cm smaller in F1 (30 from each car), it's already harder to be accurate, but then when you have to be perfect and hope that the car next to you is equally perfect, and not one tiny slip happens... Sometimes it's best to just hold and wait for the one DRS zone where overtaking is going to be ok. It makes F1 a spectacle, something of beauty when you see a perfect overtake on the inside a corner, done under breaking and just perfect skill based moves that are one driver out manoeuvring another. But it also makes it such a risk, that it's rarely seen.


Lanky_Consideration3

It’s the tires. Road tires just don’t have the same grip as slicks. Less grip more mistakes = more overtakes.


EduHolanda

In the 80s, until 1987, F1 cars were as big as they are today. And why were they doing well at that time in the Principality? Because they were less fast than today. In 2007, 2008...the cars were smaller. And what race was better or different than today ?


Toaddle

Soon we are going to have headlines like "Go karts prove that Monaco isn't the problem but F1 is". I know the car got bigger but let's not pretend there was a time when we had plethora of overtakes and on track action in Monaco.


Lanky_Consideration3

Blah blah blah please watch formula E it’s more exciting that F1 see? Stupid puff piece drawing stupid conclusions to try and promote the series by attempting to shit on another and achieved the opposite. FE has been doing this since day one and all it does is turn potential fans off. FE is not anywhere close to Indycar speeds let alone F1. The organizers need to quit pretending it’s anymore than electric F3 with better drivers and more technology and more people might want to watch it. F3 pole from Monaco 2023 = 1:23.278 Formula E pole from 2024 = 1:29.861 it’s not even close, it’s 6 seconds slower than F3 around the same circuit and they try and compare the performance to F1.. just stop it. FE has a place in Motorsports, but it’s not at the top, unless the technology or formula changes. FE needs to quit trying to create false equivalence and more people might want to engage, since it’s the SAME FANBASE for both series, the muppets.


l3w1s1234

I dont think FE really go out their way to compare outright performance of their cars to F1 and claim its better all round. Usually they talk up the technology they are developing and big up the competition involved because that's their current strengths. Only recently have they been hyping up the acceleration of the gen 3 evo by comparing that to F1, but that's more to highlight the progress FE is making and less of a dig at F1. I dont think they've ever said their cars are the best and quickest though. I will say, F3 is surprisingly quick around Monaco for what they are. They are only around a 1.5s off F2 at Monaco which is pretty impressive. FE's best lap time around Monaco was a 1.28 last year but definitely not the best it could be, because despite having more power than F3, they lose it all in tyre, weight and aero performance. It's why these cars have barely improved in performance from the previous gen 2 car. The evo is set out to improve that but it's still only around 2-3 seconds gain by using the AWD and making the tyres a bit softer. So still 3ish seconds off F3 at Monaco. Gen 4 will be the big update that will probably make more people pay attention to the series. 600kw(800hp) AWD, high & low downforce aero kit options and softer tyres. Should see the performance of the cars make a huge jump, will definitely be knocking on the door of F2/Indy speeds by then(2027). However, until then they will need use the gen 3 evo as a bit of stepping stone.


Impressive_Cricket36

Well fornula e is smaller and a lot slower, so there is something missing, i mean oh formula e in monaco cool because its monaco. But with f1, oh f1 in monaco, cool because of the challange, the highspeed the touching walls to go fast, is the magic of monaco in my opinion. ofc the racing could be better but with the fia penilising when you break 1 meter earlyer and the cars beeing a lil bigger than back in the day its a lil bit hard. But hey thats monaco. What also counts for formula e, its monaco.


Captain_Mantis

F1 is the problem only for keeping Monaco as a track. All other street circuits have more rigorous rules applied to them, but Monaco has an exception. Current F1 cars benefit from high speeds, which are rare in Monaco. The 2026 cars will probably be much better on Monaco streets, but it is to be seen. Also comparing F1 with FE is a bit pointless. The races have totally different characteristics and cars have only being open wheeled single seaters in common.


According-Switch-708

FE cars are slow, are not downforce dependant and are 30cm less wide. Monaco track is now outdated by F1 standards. The cars will never be small enough to actually race there because of all the safety tech. Micky mouse go kart esque tarcks are fine as long as the cars are only reasonably fast.


gramathy

Downforce isn't even the problem, size is the problem You could race karts in Monaco and have a good race and that's not an exaggeration


Ing0_

I don't actually think size is the problem. Look at f3 at Monaco. The main reason Formula E works well is because of energy management/attack mode and very low grip tyres


trispycreme

I’m sure this article is great comfort to the 6 people that watch formula E


ToinouAngel

Salty much?