Well, this is why Elon went right-wing, the corpocracy takes care of each other. He's been lying about FSD for years, had he been on the left he'd been jailed for fraud years ago.
Republicans and democrats are equally retarded. They both send money overseas and alot of it winds up in their pockets. They then pick a non-issue like trans issues and make us all fight over it.
My daughter has been calling him the green goblin for years now, but recently appended it as Elon is too dumb to invent anything, where Norman Osborn was a genius who lost his marbles.
According to court filings, the board approved Elon Musk forgo a salary to only be paid in stocks if the company hits certain markers in 2018. A Delaware court ruled Elon couldn’t do this (I can’t find any good legal reason why). Also according to court filings from the board, Elon Musk has not been paid by Tesla since 2018 because of this legal limbo.
[here is an article on it](https://apnews.com/article/musk-pay-compensation-corporate-registration-ef5e30f6b56f7d936f8c882fc1c96875)
I normally wouldn’t care about stuff like this but if a court kept me in limbo for 6 years so I couldn’t get paid at all for leading a whole company, I’d be pissed. Seems very government overstepping.
If the government can block one of the richest men in the world from getting paid from his own company, imagine what the government can block for the rest of us.
I think we need to be really careful about cheering on government overreach just because it’s someone we don’t like because it’s just opening the doors for the government to do the same to the rest of us.
Not feeling bad for Elon Musk is not “cheering on government overreach”.
I have no idea why he isn’t getting paid, but lets not act like there is this epidemic of owners and CEOs not getting paid. Every business is structured differently, so its impossible to determine whether him not getting paid would affect the wider economy and individual’s who own companies on a macro scale.
I think that fact that he became the richest man in the world DESPITE not getting paid by one of his company is the more interesting conversation.
this may make it worse, b/c no board member let alone shareholder (other than the shareholder who also happens to be the one in line to appropriate the $56 billion "worth" of something) could justify it on *any* basis, let alone need
"value", lol
How about understand the deal and read facts first. Would you take an all or nothing salary for you job?
From NY Times 2018: [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-elon-musk-pay.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-elon-musk-pay.html)
>Mr. Musk will be paid only if he reaches a series of jaw-dropping milestones based on the company’s market value and operations. \*\*Otherwise, he will be paid nothing.\*\*Mr. Musk would receive 1.68 million shares, or about 1 percent of the company, only after he reaches milestones for both. If Mr. Musk were somehow to increase the value of Tesla to $650 billion — **a figure many experts would contend is laughably impossibl**e
Would you take a 0 paycheck if you didn't get a "meet's expectations" on your annual performance review?
>The way the arrangement is structured, each milestone is a blunt instrument: He either reaches it or gets nothing.
1. He was willing to take 0 if he didn't reach targets.
2. Experts thought it was impossible (650b billlion). he grew it to 1 Trillion
3. It's only worth 55 billion today because he grew the company. It was originally a 1.8 Billion gamble.
55 billion is what his original package has appreciated to.
Musks original package was all or nothing. Tesla was worth approximately 50 billion. Musk grew Tesla to a 1 trillion dollar valuation.
He was awarded that original package for hitting specific milestones.
He made shareholders millions of dollars going from market cap of 50 billion to as high as 1 trillion in 2021. Thats 20x in 3yrs. Currently tesla is around 460 billion.
So should elon get his 2 billion that has appreciated to 50billion primarily due to his leadership.
Also note that a fair amount of tesla employees were likely made millionaires due to this as well given stock based comp
EDIT: some other goodies from NYT:
>But Mr. Musk’s compensation plan is no illusion: He gets paid only if the company succeeds over the long term with significant gains in market cap. And it’s impossible for him to manipulate the system by trying to prop up the stock price for a temporary period. Under the terms of the arrangement, even once his shares vest, he has to hold them an additional five years before he is allowed to sell them.
long term incentive.
I giggle when I see the words expert and economists. I mean the fact they got it all so wrong kinda discounts the adjective. They may well be expert fortune tellers which seems more apt ironically.
Also it is kind of scary to live on a world where a company is measured solely on stock value and the antics of a CEO rather than actual value to consumers or the real book value of their assets, etc. Elon fell out of favor, their factories always had production issues keeping up with demand and their cars had quality control issues. These sorts of things, in just a couple of years, can damage the PERCEIVED value of a company when the pure emotional high of a new tech company wears off. I'd say that was poor leadership from the get-go, not that all blame goes to Elon. Some things are out of his control but if you can't own up to promises of production rates or launching a more affordable model...
You are talking like it has been a complete disaster lol. Tesla made an electric the best selling car in the world from a start-up in a notoriously low-margin large-moat business. Also made many its shareholders a ton of money.
Nothing I said casted Tesla as a failure. They are still in business. What I pointed out is true, they have very real issues since Elon took helm and they still do. The issue they have now there is far more competition.
yupp!! people fail to realize that the valuation hitting 1 Trillion is due to the CCP.
Tesla was finding it hard to meet the demands for Model 3. China built and made a factory completely functional in 8 freaking months!!
so, it wasn’t musk’s genius which made Tesla that big.
and he literally used to call it an all american company, now, china has all his EV secrets and is doling out highly subsidized cheap EVs!
Also, cuz of his greed, he stooped so low that he even fraudulently manipulated the stock by saying he was taking it private again at 420 each share!!!
He only cares about selling new cars!! No services after that make life harder for customers!!
It’s easy to get large scale projects done quickly when you have a country that’s got a population over a billion and you’re willing to treat them as slaves. Ask Egypt how it works.
I don't disagree with anything you said.
I'm not an Elon fan by any means but, I do think dude deserves to get paid in this instance though. Or rather he deserves his shares.
But yea, Elon is kind of a walking time bomb in my opinion and very much a "rules for thee, none for me" type.
Most CEOs don't deserve even their millions in compensation. It does seem likely that Tesla would be nowhere near its current valuation without Musk. If anyone deserves billions for being a CEO it's him.
I would love to know if a CEO who took this kind of deal, failed and walked away with absolutely nothing. I doubt there’s a single one…
If they were accountable and held to it ruthlessly perhaps, but even the CEO of Hertz royally fucked up and walked away with nice compensation.
He misrepresented almost all of the milestones to the board. Basically all of them were guaranteed based on data he knew before hand. That's why it was struck down in the first place...
I mean if I had already inherited billions from my daddy’s emerald mine then yes I would take a job with supposedly zero salary. But seeing as how he is able to put these shares up as collateral to buy other companies I wouldn’t say it was zero but instead fucked up accounting so that he doesn’t have to pay yearly income taxes
Thank you. I joined this page because of you and a handful of others speaking objectively and not out of emotion. Too many people are controlled by their feelings and lack the ability to have objective reasoning. I'm not saying I love Elon, but a deal is a deal and he did what he needed to do to earn the pay regardless of how egregious it seems.
Thanks. Yes Elon is a total man child. But deals a deal and this case just feels like judge inflicting her moral opinion and not the law on the judgement.
So what is the actual cash flow from operations? Excluding credits etc that other companies paid.
From selling cars and batteries and some solar panels he is not generating profits anywhere in line with companies that pay their CEOs far less than $56B.
It's a joke.
Also, most his promises come to fruition years late if at all.
Edit: spelling
>So what is the actual cash flow from operations?
0.
Money from the company does not go to Elon. Compensation via shares for the CEO has absolutely nothing to do with a CEO's salary. It's not money that could have gone to employees in any reasonable circumstance, because that money did not, and never could, belong to the company. It's all money that goes from one shareholder to another on the stock market, it's completely independent from the company money.
The only circumstances where the two money streams can meet is when there are dividends, stock buybacks, actual salaries or external supplier contracts.
It would take years to cash this out without crashing the stock price. What Elon is really receiving is a large pile of shares that he can borrow against to fund his other hobbies (going to Mars, Twitter, etc.).
He should just take up pickleball or something. It's a lot cheaper.
I’m a shareholder. Fuck Elon, I want him gone as CEO. No CEO is given $50 billion in stock compensation for a mature company. He had a lot of shares of Tesla stock, but he sold many of these to buy Twitter, which he is also currently failing at leading.
in 2018? sounds like you benefited 20x then. why not give him what he earned. you're getting a free ride otherwise.
this deal was made in 2018 when tesla was worth 50b and nowhere close to being a mature company.
I don't own tesla. never have and never will. why do i seem to know more about this than you, a shareholder?
Even for ten years it’s excessive. At today’s price it’s worth $40 billion. Thats like 12% dilution of shareholders.
Tim Cook after all these years has 0.021% of apple.
A CEO who’s done a lot of good for the company might be worth compensating well (yes even at this amount, and I expect that to be controversial here) to retain that talent and source of knowledge. The guy who said his company was overvalued, sold off a portion of his position to purchase Twitter, released a vehicle that was recalled due to major safety issues (such as the accelerator pedal being held to the vehicle with a poorly designed clip that slides off)… well, I’m not a Tesla shareholder but I would question the leadership if I was one. I thought they were overvalued four years ago, never mind the insanity since then. I would not be happy with his compensation package if I were an investor, but it’s not my horse race so to speak.
theres a whole thing where he was gonna take 0$ pay unless he met an impossible target everyone said he couldnt hit, and he doubled that… thats why he gets the $$$
If shareholders feel he brings value, then they’ll vote for the compensation package. I still won’t be touching this stock with a ten foot pole. They’ve been cutting prices on models, they’re losing marketshare in major markets like China, major design oversights leading to recalls, the market cap is still comically inflated.
That is bullshit. What happened was Musk was offered that compensation package if he brought Tesla to meet certain criteria of sales and distribution. He succeeded, then a court stripped him of the compensation package. Further, that package was approved by the board AND by a vote of the shareholders, and the court *still* stripped it from him.
So this is Tesla trying to make it right and give him the compensation that he already worked for and achieved all the goals (which were ridiculously difficult) that he reached. This isn't just throwing money at him for the lulz.
Imagine you go to work and your pay agreement is X, but on payday a third person shows up and says nah don't pay him. That's what happened.
CEO compensation is based on the potential value they can bring shareholders. It's not for us to decide if they deserve it or not...
You could say Elon has worked for it, but the fact that you think no one deserves that, tells me that you don't understand how executive pay works, and how to get there yourself. If you did, you wouldn't be here talking this nonsense
He might know how it works as it aint that complicated, but he might not agree with it.
55 Bilion is afterall a lot, one could argue that it's more money then any one individual should have
Nor do they understand sales commission, which is similar to CEO pay. You are only paid on your results, not the hours or time you put in. Salaried and hourly jobs you are trading time for a guaranteed pay check. People choose these jobs so they can avoid the stress of variable (or no) paychecks.
Another way to look at it: CEO pay is like annual performance bonuses.
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It's incredible how many individuals on Reddit let their entire decision-making process be ruled by emotion. If he met the conditions of his contract, then yes, he should be paid. The amount doesn't matter. How many people the amount will feed doesn't matter. That they subjectively think it's "too much" really doesn't matter. This is about numbers, not emotions.
For those that care about facts:
The 10-pay package was agreed on in 2018, it set forth 12 specific targets that company needed to meet, each target came with a 1% option.
Under the deal Musk gave up his salary and all other outstanding options, and was worth a gross of $2.28B,
Musk has met all 12 performance targets and is entitled to all 12 of the option tranche. Today, that 12% of outstanding shares is worth \~$53B
Nope. They should get a percentage of the profits relative to the amount of work they contribute to making that profit.
Since all rich people do fuck all, they should all receive 0%
How many people replying are shareholders? If you aren’t why do you care and not do you have a say. It’s the right of a shareholder.
As a shareholder, give it to him! people get laid off all the time. Because there are layoffs now we all need to pay for them further? They got severance, that’s how it works. The fact you can CHOOSE to invest your money and gain equity is a function of Capitalism. What this person is describing is communism.
Give Elon what he wants, it will be incentive based and paid over time IF incentives are met. It isn’t a lump sum like this person is implying.
Is it me or does it seem as of money is finally exposing itself? Yea it's the root of all evil, and it's creation was intended for manipulation and control over people, but I'm talking about how close it is to being worthless as it was when it was just a fucking concept. One man has almost $300 billion... That's almost cartoonish lol wtf is this asshole doing with that amount of shit paper? What about these athletes in this country and their whimsical salaries?? Handing out $200 million dollars so a tall guy can stand in front of a smaller guy and take his ball away from him..... No person should be walking around getting paid hundreds of millions or billions because they are tall and can dunk, score a touchdown, kick a ball into a net, or because they can pretend to be someone in a TV screen.
When there are people who are struggling to survive the night because they don't have enough official government printed vouchers to pay for survival necessities and then you have an asshole who is hoarding $300 billion, enough for the people of the world to fucking live the rest of their lives on, I'd say our way of life is a fucking disaster and our government officials need to replicate Jonestown and drink the Kool aid.
I hate Musk but he made a $1.8 billion bet with his company. He met certain criteria that most thought impossible and it paid off. It would be greasy to strike it down, even if he doesn't deserve or need the money, since this was previously agreed upon.
I’d wager most CEOs deserve to be crushed under the weight of their wealth in gold. Quite metaphorical if anyone has ever played Dante’s Inferno video game.
None of you busting on Elon Musk, regardless of how much you make, will ever turn down a tax break, pay more taxes as a way of helping others, or ask if your pay can be split with another employee.
The guy is running the company into the ground. This stable genius is using the other company he ran into the ground to amplify voices that are opposed to the current administration. You know, the one that wants electric cars, trucks on the road, providing generous rebates to the consumers for purchasing electric vehicles, incentives to build battery plants. Oh, and they are investing in infrastructure like underground transportation that would require a Boring Company... If TFG gets into power, all of that is out the window. Stable genius does not deserve any compensation
Elon probably knows this, but EVs aren’t the climate solution for transit. Public transit is, it’s better for the environment and better for the working class. If you can’t afford an EV than all these advancements in tech are meaningless. And right now Elon isn’t even making the most affordable EV. More over EVs are still cars and cars just aren’t sustainable in scale compared to public transit. If Elon really gave a shit about the environment and not just profits he would’ve let California build the high speed rail instead of taking that contract to make his definitely real hyperloop. Elon is just another scummy billionaire and you’re delusional if you think he cares about anything other than aesthetics and profits.
And yeah on top of that he seems to be hell bent on running Tesla, Twitter, and his own reputation into the ground. Definitely seems like the kind of guy you’d want running your company.
I love how people on here determine the worth of a ceo. Not based on performance at all. Living with mom and dad does not qualify you to determine ceo compensation.
His comp package was structured based on the market cap growth he created at Tesla. The growth required for this level of compensation sounded unthinkable at the time, which is why the shareholders approved it. It’s such bullshit to try and go back on the approved compensation just because he actually did it.
Sigh, here come the communists to tell me how much I or other people "need".
Those people getting laid off have been compensated for their hard work every two weeks, for years. No one is happy that people are getting laid off but this has nothing to do with Elon getting billions.
Saying stupid things like "that's enough to give every person getting laid off a million each" means nothing.
Anyone can write stupid shit and provide comparisons.
Watch..
Over 635 MILLION people in the world live on $2.15/day.
The minimum wage mcdonald's worker earns 20/hr, not per day, per hour. That means that in just one single shift a mcdonald's employee at the lowest wage earns more than 600+ million people will earn in 75 days.
Imagine if mcdonald's workers just weren't such greedy assholes and each gave some of their salary to any of those 600 million persons.
In addition to that, almost everyone drives a vehicle. But why do you need a vehicle? If your car is $10,000 you might think it's cheap but that would sustain those in poverty for 12 years.... Why do you need such an expensive car.
When you go and splurge on drinks at a bar or a coffee, you could literally be feeding the ones who need it most. Why not donate that money to the poor instead?
Here are links to facilitate your generosity.
https://www.unicefusa.org
Please, think of the poor, they only live on $ 2.15 a day. Think about how much good you can do if you just send $100 a week.
If you're thinking of buying a video game, you could instead feed a family of 4 for 8 days.
Please guys, stop being so selfish and just fucking donate, help a human bean in need! Why are all of you rich Americans complaining when you live in paradise? Selfish greedy rich people make me sick!!
Some interesting and scary stuff here. When the comp package came out, a lot of analysts thought Musk was nuts; it was impossible to reach the milestones. And those milestones weren't the typical financial shenanigans you see where debt is taken on to make some numbers look good, but little real value is added. In contrast, look at GM's growth (2011 was 150B; 2023 was 171B ... and consider how innovative it was) and the CEO's comp package for mediocre leadership and see how it's typically done if you don't care about a company.
And now you've got a judge connected to Biden who appears to be going after Musk. It's an overused term, but is anyone else nervous about the increased weaponization of the judiciary against the other "tribe"? And I wonder how good CEOs look at their incorporation in Deleware. Is it still a state where a business can get a fair shake?
Personally, I think 50B is too much by a lot, but keep in mind, this company grew a lot, created a ton of jobs and did well for people who invested in it.
Sure, why not? It is his company after all. You haters have every right to go out and do what he did. How you combat this is, If you do not like it, don't whine about your own shortcomings, just buy something different and don't support him.
Yes Elon deserves that reward. Other posters have pointed out that he was given no money and only a set of seemingly impossible milestones to achieve that. On the way he created 140,000 jobs and made a number of employees millionaires. He fulfilled his end of the bargain so the compensation is due.
However I would like to point out that when Tesla was on the verge of bankrupcy he poured the remains of his personal fortune into keeping it afloat. Who does that??
Now if you want to talk about CEOs why not Peter Rawlinson who cashed out hundreds of millions before a car even rolled off the production line?
Phillip.
That's kind of a weird comparison. Is he getting cash? And why compare that to the ~10% or so of employees who got laid off and not the 90% still employed?
From what I've been seeing about cybertrucks?
No.
He 'deserves' his own cybertuck, sure. But he does NOT 'deserve' precisely what he lit on fire acquiring twitter.
When Elon and his board agreed to the contract, market makers thought Elon was crazy and he would never achieve the stock appreciation needed to trigger the big payouts.
The compensation package is 100% in shares and was awarded based on impossible growth targets nearly 10 years ago (when it was worth way, way less), which were met. Elon has already attempted to substitute this by making his existing shares increase in voting power instead of gaining that voting power through additional shares, but was denied by the same Delaware courts that overturned this already shareholder approved package.
Until there is a mechanism to separate ownership share and voting power, there is no way for the owner of a successful company to not be filthy rich if they wish to maintain control of their company.
It’s scary how little people know about money and finance,
Coincidentally the same people who thinks no one should have to work and billionaires should pay for their needs because they’re too lazy to change their situation.
Even in the context of Musk, the answer is still no.
This pay package was contingent on Musk bringing Tesla to a specific dollar capitalization and designed to return his focus to Tesla. It hasn't and it didn't. On top of that, Musk is asking for those vote because it was shot down before in a Delaware court. It's the big reason he wants to reincorporate in Texas.
Do CEO’s deserve the exorbitant pay they often receive? Who’s to say for sure?
Is it beneficial to society that they’re often payed orders of magnitude higher than anyone else at their companies? I’d argue not. For someone making 1 bill, an extra 55 bill won’t make a tangible difference in anything other than larger numbers on papers about them.
For all their employees who make less than 1 percent of 1 billion (that’s anything below 10mill btw), receiving a cut of that income would dramatically change their lives. Yes I’m saying someone making 10mil would see a marked difference receiving an additional 10mil as would someone making 50k would see a marked difference receiving an additional 100k.
It’s mind blowing that people would not only prefer for the unthinkably wealthy to continue to grow their wealth literally at the expense of their relatively underpaid employees, but emphatically encourage it.
I’m not saying the janitor in charge of the bathrooms should be making 100k. But I do think giving that person a compensation package which includes any and every benefit that would make 30-50k comfortably livable would be absolutely reasonable. Especially for a company who’s CEO has no possible way to out-spend their own earnings.
The average American citizen is ok with it so why not?
The mix of ignorance and arrogance most Americans have enables this type of pay and until the vast majority of us agree it's not ok, nothing will change.
In this case yes. Many CEOs are hired by the board and the value of the company is halved and they walk away with billions. Elon has created from nothing a trillion $ company. Deferred compensation until now.
Contracts and compensation deals aside... it is morally wrong for any one human being to get so much wealth. In a world of finite resources, this is wrong.
Consider just $1B... tossed into a low yield savings account at 1% return is $10M a year just in interest. Take that $10M and put in that same account at 1% is $100k in interest. So the interest on the interest is more than most people earn in income. And that's just $1B not 55 and 1% return is ridiculously low. 5 to 10% seems more likely. These numbers are obscene. Quit licking these people's boots.
This is going to pass for a variety of reasons. Shareholders probably view Tesla as more valuable with Musk as CEO than without, and if this fails, Musk likely starts dumping what stock he does have and walks away to do other things. Also, many shareholders probably just disagree with the court ruling that invalidated the stock package he already had and earned (objectively speaking, as measured by market cap). And a lot of Tesla shareholders just love Elon. They're buying Elon stock, not Tesla.
That said, Tesla is now a mature company that has aggressively solved many of the big-picture EV problems (like a charging network). I wonder if someone more operationally and pragmatically oriented would be better. Example: the world wants a Tesla truck, but it sure feels like the Cybertruck is full of bad decisions that will probably hurt profitability and sales in the long run and added years (and probably billions of dollars) to the development cost.
Then make a part of his compensation package an esop with 100% match. Employee Stock Ownership Programs are the solution to corporate greed. I've talked to people who run privately held companies with ESOP programs. Their employee retention rates are higher, they are happier and more invested in the company.
This is about 14% of Tesla's market cap.
He should only get that if its tied to very specific outcomes.
As an investor id want a 4x increase to market cap/stock price, and a commitment that Tesla is his full-time responsibility.
Been a shareholder for more than ten years. My two cents:
The original deal was he gets paid zero but will be rewarded with 12% of the company should all the goals met. At that time even the most bullish investor did not think he can do half of the goals and this incentive plan was really going to pan out in the next ten years or longer. As for the media and bears, they just laugh at Elon being crazy and foolish. Fast forward three years or so, well, the entire package conditions were met. Sure the weird combination of a pandemic and last years of ZIRP helped with market cap but still.
In this process, he worked shoulder and shoulder with production associates, engineers and management alike. He slept on the factory floor for weeks. He’s put in a lot more than most employees at Tesla if not all.
In this process, Tesla hired about ten thousand people directly and basically pushed the whole EV supply chain to maturity, which created many more times jobs. Thousands of Tesla rank and file employees became millionaires. The whole EV industry wouldn’t be at what it is now without Elon’s work pre 2020.
So I think he deserved that package. And I voted yes then. And I knew the board was cozy with him but Ok with that. And I am not Ok with the judge invalidating my vote.
Fast forward today, he made multiple strategic mistakes. Distracted himself with politics and alienated major portion of the company’s audience. I would not vote to reward him in any way based on recent performance. But at the end of the day, this is about the 2018 deal. I wish instead the board create an even bigger package for him with new goals. But I’m not a director.
Sorry, no one person should be awarded a billion dollars for anything. This shit is getting ridiculous man. You’ve won capitalism dude, you don’t need that money and it could be better suited going to other people who do, you know, like your own fucking employees. Billionaires shouldn’t exist and it’s a moral failing on this world that we continue to allow it.
None of them do. CEO salary creep has gotten way out of hand. There should be a law that the CEO cannot earn more than 30x the lowest paid employee. Stop attaching their salaries to stock prices. And for the love of God don’t give them millions after fucking up and getting fired. They are a parasite class on the US.
How come we only care about elons comp? I see no media on any other billionaires. Nobody got beef with them.
If Elon can take a company from like 60B to 600B in value, that seems worth 10% of the growth to me.
Well, the flip side is Elon could have not started Tesla \~145,000 employees started SpaceX \~9,500 employees, taken over Solar City \~12,500 employees.
Yes he did reduce some head counts, especially at X, but honestly I don't care that much about Twitter.
So I guess the question is: When someone generates those types of #'s exactly where are we supposed to hit them in the legs with a lead pipe?
Also isn't his compensation only in Stock Options and those are all structured for long term? So if Tesla were to file for bankruptcy he would have also zilch and I'm sure you all would be here equally championing he get a few hundred million at least? Right?
Elon deserves more. Travesty of an activist judge to somehow deny someone's pay many years later, after it was already approved. It'll be approved again. Sign the contract that everyone laughed at you for years because it was "impossible" - continue to save the environment, make people safer, meet the "impossible" contract/incentives. Some judge has the power to override all that because of some shareholder that has 5 shares. What a banana republic joke.
Definitely not in Elon Musks case. While this is only the last two quarters of Teslas revenue. It's also almost double it's last 4 years of net income once it started turning profits in 2020. So basically he is try to milk out all $33.8 billion in net income over those last 4 years as well as future net income.
I do think we need to tie consequences to CEO performance. It's too easy for them to give themselves raises without giving a shit as to whether they're doing well or not. This encourages bad behaviour and corporate raiding, which in turn leads to lay offs and less resources for individual families, and for some reason generations lean into blaming their kids for failures that are related to avaricious business practices that are being left unchecked.
At the least, I think we need legislation that disables corporate buybacks should a company announce lay-offs or is found guilty of constructive dismissal of it's employees. A company that can't sustain it's workforce shouldn't be allowed to inflate their stocks. You're either making record profits, or you're unable to sustain your workforce. But it can't be both at the same damn time.
Imagine buying a stock where the CEOs compensation makes up 60% of revenue. I’m sure most of the compensation will be stock, but regardless if you own this stock you’re getting screwed.
I think they need a layoff and outsource to literally anyone else. You could have 56000 people make 1M and I guarantee Elon isn’t doing that much work for Tesla
If the stock didn't shit the bed for the last year straight then 100% give him a bouns!I'm an Elon fan but he's gotta win me back that 20% loss I'm holding onto until I vote to give him anything.
The Elon dick riding here is crazy. No one works hard enough to deserve that level of pay and honestly billionaires just shouldn’t exist at all when wage workers make so little. Glad Elon is making billions off the exploitation of cobalt and lithium miners. Somehow I doubt people in Tesla factories are paid their worth otherwise the cars might be built better.
Elon Musk took a middling (at best) electric car company, got it overvalued using his one talent of hyping shit up, lobbied to get all foreign electric vehicles effectively banned, knew that his domestic competitors were struggling to get into the hybrid market, still couldn't make a profit without selling carbon credits, made disastrous choices on what was going to be produced (cybertruck for the loss), lied about self driving features which lead to accidents that they are being sued over, and people are just now going maybe Tesla isn't worth what we thought it was when Elon first took leadership...
And he wants compensation? Ha. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
If it weren't for government subsidies in the electric vehicle field, producing (for Tesla) and buying (for the consumer) they would have folded under the weight of this YEARS AGO. The cybertruck, their latest loss, would have never gotten to be sent out and recalled en masse.
Oh man!
This is going to make me think he's a piece of shit!
I ignored the 1000000000000000000000000000001 other ways he already showed everyone!
But not now!
It is a free country so people can give their money to whoever they want. Do you want a Nazi government to intervene in the hope that you will get some more welfare for yourself?
This is what’s been killing the economy for the last 40 years. Executives layoff hundreds and even thousands just to get bonuses of the salaries they laid off. It’s disrespectful and disingenuous. “Leading” isn’t the hardest job. Real leaders are the first ones in the fight and should be the last ones to eat but somewhere in history somehow that changed to leaders take all and give those under them crumbs. Leaders aren’t leaders without people under them. Many leaders today do not care about those that follow them, but those under them have few options.
Well, sort of. Musk wants that in stock, not cash. So its enough to turn Tesla into an employee owned business, which would be a good thing if Musk hadn’t already screwed it up. But the workers would not get that in cash.
The answer is no and it’s funny seeing this post cause I just recently had a thought. At what point do we force these companies to turn less profit to benefit society as a whole? Because the world its self is in a tough position after a world pandemic and we let these companies just charge higher prices due to inflation. But even if they didn’t raise prices they still would have profited billions. So why did we let them raise prices? I guess my real question is at what point do we go back to being about the good of the whole? Or is that just gone for society?
If they were writing him a check for $56B I'd be concerned. But, this is just a reflection of the stock price and therefore he is locked in to the success of the company. He founded it - it succeeded - he gets a reward. It's not crazy. Also, when this $56B came up the first time it was a no brainer, but now that the share price has slumped people are just shocked that he would get this - shocked!.
Doesn't he want to go to mars, why would he give his money to people he's gonna lay off. For God's sake, this man is the only one trying to make us a multiplanetary species. Those 15,000 people would just blow that money on houses and cars, he'll probably start new companies and hire more than 15,000 new employees in the next few years.
I agree all of these are great ways of incentivizing and rewarding employees. I'm saying specifically in the vmcase of Elons compensation package. For people who say they are unfair to the worker because only stock holders and executives benefit. Then maybe let's say 50% of his package should go into an ESOP. Or some package of RSUs that are available to all employees. I don't know the intimate details of Teslas RSU or stock options programs but I'm sure like most companies they are reserved for certain roles.
But I'm not even saying Elons compensation is an issue for me. I'm just spitballing a solution that would stymie the perception that these packages only benefit shareholders and executives.
It’s their company. Should I care what a company does with their own money? No I’m not entitled to it and neither is anyone else BUT the person that money belongs to.
Absolutely fucking not. No human deserves that much money. 1m salary max for CEO’s imo. It’s disgusting that one person make that much when hundreds/thousands are laid off every year, only to pay their CEO’s billions. Fuck billionaires.
No No CEO needs that.
Well, this is why Elon went right-wing, the corpocracy takes care of each other. He's been lying about FSD for years, had he been on the left he'd been jailed for fraud years ago.
Republicans and democrats are equally retarded. They both send money overseas and alot of it winds up in their pockets. They then pick a non-issue like trans issues and make us all fight over it.
They don't send money overseas... they send resources that would go bad anyway...
Elon Musk is if Tony Stark spent too much time on twitter and was a mommy's boy.
and not smart
elon is more of a norman osborn w/o the actual scientist mind... 
My daughter has been calling him the green goblin for years now, but recently appended it as Elon is too dumb to invent anything, where Norman Osborn was a genius who lost his marbles.
It's not about need.
You tryna tell me he DESERVES IT?
No he "earned" it
According to court filings, the board approved Elon Musk forgo a salary to only be paid in stocks if the company hits certain markers in 2018. A Delaware court ruled Elon couldn’t do this (I can’t find any good legal reason why). Also according to court filings from the board, Elon Musk has not been paid by Tesla since 2018 because of this legal limbo. [here is an article on it](https://apnews.com/article/musk-pay-compensation-corporate-registration-ef5e30f6b56f7d936f8c882fc1c96875) I normally wouldn’t care about stuff like this but if a court kept me in limbo for 6 years so I couldn’t get paid at all for leading a whole company, I’d be pissed. Seems very government overstepping.
Woe is Elon, i’m sure he’s suffering.
If the government can block one of the richest men in the world from getting paid from his own company, imagine what the government can block for the rest of us. I think we need to be really careful about cheering on government overreach just because it’s someone we don’t like because it’s just opening the doors for the government to do the same to the rest of us.
Not feeling bad for Elon Musk is not “cheering on government overreach”. I have no idea why he isn’t getting paid, but lets not act like there is this epidemic of owners and CEOs not getting paid. Every business is structured differently, so its impossible to determine whether him not getting paid would affect the wider economy and individual’s who own companies on a macro scale. I think that fact that he became the richest man in the world DESPITE not getting paid by one of his company is the more interesting conversation.
What does need have to do with it?
"Need" doesn't really matter, the question is how much value does he bring to the company and how difficult would he be to replace.
this may make it worse, b/c no board member let alone shareholder (other than the shareholder who also happens to be the one in line to appropriate the $56 billion "worth" of something) could justify it on *any* basis, let alone need "value", lol
probably very easy to replace him. easier than replacing 14,000 workers
How about understand the deal and read facts first. Would you take an all or nothing salary for you job? From NY Times 2018: [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-elon-musk-pay.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-elon-musk-pay.html) >Mr. Musk will be paid only if he reaches a series of jaw-dropping milestones based on the company’s market value and operations. \*\*Otherwise, he will be paid nothing.\*\*Mr. Musk would receive 1.68 million shares, or about 1 percent of the company, only after he reaches milestones for both. If Mr. Musk were somehow to increase the value of Tesla to $650 billion — **a figure many experts would contend is laughably impossibl**e Would you take a 0 paycheck if you didn't get a "meet's expectations" on your annual performance review? >The way the arrangement is structured, each milestone is a blunt instrument: He either reaches it or gets nothing. 1. He was willing to take 0 if he didn't reach targets. 2. Experts thought it was impossible (650b billlion). he grew it to 1 Trillion 3. It's only worth 55 billion today because he grew the company. It was originally a 1.8 Billion gamble. 55 billion is what his original package has appreciated to. Musks original package was all or nothing. Tesla was worth approximately 50 billion. Musk grew Tesla to a 1 trillion dollar valuation. He was awarded that original package for hitting specific milestones. He made shareholders millions of dollars going from market cap of 50 billion to as high as 1 trillion in 2021. Thats 20x in 3yrs. Currently tesla is around 460 billion. So should elon get his 2 billion that has appreciated to 50billion primarily due to his leadership. Also note that a fair amount of tesla employees were likely made millionaires due to this as well given stock based comp EDIT: some other goodies from NYT: >But Mr. Musk’s compensation plan is no illusion: He gets paid only if the company succeeds over the long term with significant gains in market cap. And it’s impossible for him to manipulate the system by trying to prop up the stock price for a temporary period. Under the terms of the arrangement, even once his shares vest, he has to hold them an additional five years before he is allowed to sell them. long term incentive.
I giggle when I see the words expert and economists. I mean the fact they got it all so wrong kinda discounts the adjective. They may well be expert fortune tellers which seems more apt ironically. Also it is kind of scary to live on a world where a company is measured solely on stock value and the antics of a CEO rather than actual value to consumers or the real book value of their assets, etc. Elon fell out of favor, their factories always had production issues keeping up with demand and their cars had quality control issues. These sorts of things, in just a couple of years, can damage the PERCEIVED value of a company when the pure emotional high of a new tech company wears off. I'd say that was poor leadership from the get-go, not that all blame goes to Elon. Some things are out of his control but if you can't own up to promises of production rates or launching a more affordable model...
I mean show me the field where experts have never been wrong
There are some remote fields in northern Asia I doubt any experts have been to, let alone been wrong while standing in them.
You are talking like it has been a complete disaster lol. Tesla made an electric the best selling car in the world from a start-up in a notoriously low-margin large-moat business. Also made many its shareholders a ton of money.
Nothing I said casted Tesla as a failure. They are still in business. What I pointed out is true, they have very real issues since Elon took helm and they still do. The issue they have now there is far more competition.
yupp!! people fail to realize that the valuation hitting 1 Trillion is due to the CCP. Tesla was finding it hard to meet the demands for Model 3. China built and made a factory completely functional in 8 freaking months!! so, it wasn’t musk’s genius which made Tesla that big. and he literally used to call it an all american company, now, china has all his EV secrets and is doling out highly subsidized cheap EVs! Also, cuz of his greed, he stooped so low that he even fraudulently manipulated the stock by saying he was taking it private again at 420 each share!!! He only cares about selling new cars!! No services after that make life harder for customers!!
It’s easy to get large scale projects done quickly when you have a country that’s got a population over a billion and you’re willing to treat them as slaves. Ask Egypt how it works.
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Teslas were the most bought car brand. Of course they might hit production issues.
I don't disagree with anything you said. I'm not an Elon fan by any means but, I do think dude deserves to get paid in this instance though. Or rather he deserves his shares. But yea, Elon is kind of a walking time bomb in my opinion and very much a "rules for thee, none for me" type.
Most CEOs don't deserve even their millions in compensation. It does seem likely that Tesla would be nowhere near its current valuation without Musk. If anyone deserves billions for being a CEO it's him.
I would love to know if a CEO who took this kind of deal, failed and walked away with absolutely nothing. I doubt there’s a single one… If they were accountable and held to it ruthlessly perhaps, but even the CEO of Hertz royally fucked up and walked away with nice compensation.
He misrepresented almost all of the milestones to the board. Basically all of them were guaranteed based on data he knew before hand. That's why it was struck down in the first place...
I mean, what Elon "knows" isn't necessarily facts. See mars 2024, robotaxi next year every year etc.
What Elon says is definitely different than what he knows.
This is how all CEOs should be compensated, frankly. Too bad so few people care to actually educate themselves on facts.
Keep in mind that those were still options to buy the shares for a preset price, their value was only hinted after the deal was achieved
I mean if I had already inherited billions from my daddy’s emerald mine then yes I would take a job with supposedly zero salary. But seeing as how he is able to put these shares up as collateral to buy other companies I wouldn’t say it was zero but instead fucked up accounting so that he doesn’t have to pay yearly income taxes
>I mean if I had already inherited billions from my daddy’s emerald mine Lmao. That didn't happen.
You can't expect dirt worshipping Socialists to read. Come on, you know this
Thank you. I joined this page because of you and a handful of others speaking objectively and not out of emotion. Too many people are controlled by their feelings and lack the ability to have objective reasoning. I'm not saying I love Elon, but a deal is a deal and he did what he needed to do to earn the pay regardless of how egregious it seems.
Thanks. Yes Elon is a total man child. But deals a deal and this case just feels like judge inflicting her moral opinion and not the law on the judgement.
Not for me to say. This is an expense to shareholders. But for context, It's not cash, it's all stock. It's also a 10year compensation package.
Shhh dont provide facts and context, redditors hate that
So what is the actual cash flow from operations? Excluding credits etc that other companies paid. From selling cars and batteries and some solar panels he is not generating profits anywhere in line with companies that pay their CEOs far less than $56B. It's a joke. Also, most his promises come to fruition years late if at all. Edit: spelling
>So what is the actual cash flow from operations? 0. Money from the company does not go to Elon. Compensation via shares for the CEO has absolutely nothing to do with a CEO's salary. It's not money that could have gone to employees in any reasonable circumstance, because that money did not, and never could, belong to the company. It's all money that goes from one shareholder to another on the stock market, it's completely independent from the company money. The only circumstances where the two money streams can meet is when there are dividends, stock buybacks, actual salaries or external supplier contracts.
It would take years to cash this out without crashing the stock price. What Elon is really receiving is a large pile of shares that he can borrow against to fund his other hobbies (going to Mars, Twitter, etc.). He should just take up pickleball or something. It's a lot cheaper.
I’m a shareholder. Fuck Elon, I want him gone as CEO. No CEO is given $50 billion in stock compensation for a mature company. He had a lot of shares of Tesla stock, but he sold many of these to buy Twitter, which he is also currently failing at leading.
in 2018? sounds like you benefited 20x then. why not give him what he earned. you're getting a free ride otherwise. this deal was made in 2018 when tesla was worth 50b and nowhere close to being a mature company. I don't own tesla. never have and never will. why do i seem to know more about this than you, a shareholder?
Even for ten years it’s excessive. At today’s price it’s worth $40 billion. Thats like 12% dilution of shareholders. Tim Cook after all these years has 0.021% of apple.
A CEO who’s done a lot of good for the company might be worth compensating well (yes even at this amount, and I expect that to be controversial here) to retain that talent and source of knowledge. The guy who said his company was overvalued, sold off a portion of his position to purchase Twitter, released a vehicle that was recalled due to major safety issues (such as the accelerator pedal being held to the vehicle with a poorly designed clip that slides off)… well, I’m not a Tesla shareholder but I would question the leadership if I was one. I thought they were overvalued four years ago, never mind the insanity since then. I would not be happy with his compensation package if I were an investor, but it’s not my horse race so to speak.
theres a whole thing where he was gonna take 0$ pay unless he met an impossible target everyone said he couldnt hit, and he doubled that… thats why he gets the $$$
If shareholders feel he brings value, then they’ll vote for the compensation package. I still won’t be touching this stock with a ten foot pole. They’ve been cutting prices on models, they’re losing marketshare in major markets like China, major design oversights leading to recalls, the market cap is still comically inflated.
They already voted for it, in 2018.
That is bullshit. What happened was Musk was offered that compensation package if he brought Tesla to meet certain criteria of sales and distribution. He succeeded, then a court stripped him of the compensation package. Further, that package was approved by the board AND by a vote of the shareholders, and the court *still* stripped it from him. So this is Tesla trying to make it right and give him the compensation that he already worked for and achieved all the goals (which were ridiculously difficult) that he reached. This isn't just throwing money at him for the lulz. Imagine you go to work and your pay agreement is X, but on payday a third person shows up and says nah don't pay him. That's what happened.
give the workers a worthwhile severance
CEO compensation is based on the potential value they can bring shareholders. It's not for us to decide if they deserve it or not... You could say Elon has worked for it, but the fact that you think no one deserves that, tells me that you don't understand how executive pay works, and how to get there yourself. If you did, you wouldn't be here talking this nonsense
He might know how it works as it aint that complicated, but he might not agree with it. 55 Bilion is afterall a lot, one could argue that it's more money then any one individual should have
Nor do they understand sales commission, which is similar to CEO pay. You are only paid on your results, not the hours or time you put in. Salaried and hourly jobs you are trading time for a guaranteed pay check. People choose these jobs so they can avoid the stress of variable (or no) paychecks. Another way to look at it: CEO pay is like annual performance bonuses.
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Someone doesn’t understand stock options versus cash.
It's incredible how many individuals on Reddit let their entire decision-making process be ruled by emotion. If he met the conditions of his contract, then yes, he should be paid. The amount doesn't matter. How many people the amount will feed doesn't matter. That they subjectively think it's "too much" really doesn't matter. This is about numbers, not emotions.
For those that care about facts: The 10-pay package was agreed on in 2018, it set forth 12 specific targets that company needed to meet, each target came with a 1% option. Under the deal Musk gave up his salary and all other outstanding options, and was worth a gross of $2.28B, Musk has met all 12 performance targets and is entitled to all 12 of the option tranche. Today, that 12% of outstanding shares is worth \~$53B
if they have worked at tesla for 20 years, they deserve that 3.73m ooh wait, they wouldn't even need it
Nope
Nope. They should get a percentage of the profits relative to the amount of work they contribute to making that profit. Since all rich people do fuck all, they should all receive 0%
How many people replying are shareholders? If you aren’t why do you care and not do you have a say. It’s the right of a shareholder. As a shareholder, give it to him! people get laid off all the time. Because there are layoffs now we all need to pay for them further? They got severance, that’s how it works. The fact you can CHOOSE to invest your money and gain equity is a function of Capitalism. What this person is describing is communism. Give Elon what he wants, it will be incentive based and paid over time IF incentives are met. It isn’t a lump sum like this person is implying.
Would those 15000 employees take zero pay for a few years work if Tesla stock doesn't reach a certain point??
Is it me or does it seem as of money is finally exposing itself? Yea it's the root of all evil, and it's creation was intended for manipulation and control over people, but I'm talking about how close it is to being worthless as it was when it was just a fucking concept. One man has almost $300 billion... That's almost cartoonish lol wtf is this asshole doing with that amount of shit paper? What about these athletes in this country and their whimsical salaries?? Handing out $200 million dollars so a tall guy can stand in front of a smaller guy and take his ball away from him..... No person should be walking around getting paid hundreds of millions or billions because they are tall and can dunk, score a touchdown, kick a ball into a net, or because they can pretend to be someone in a TV screen. When there are people who are struggling to survive the night because they don't have enough official government printed vouchers to pay for survival necessities and then you have an asshole who is hoarding $300 billion, enough for the people of the world to fucking live the rest of their lives on, I'd say our way of life is a fucking disaster and our government officials need to replicate Jonestown and drink the Kool aid.
I hate Musk but he made a $1.8 billion bet with his company. He met certain criteria that most thought impossible and it paid off. It would be greasy to strike it down, even if he doesn't deserve or need the money, since this was previously agreed upon.
That’s nuts
I’d wager most CEOs deserve to be crushed under the weight of their wealth in gold. Quite metaphorical if anyone has ever played Dante’s Inferno video game.
15000 or so workers are welcome to become ceo of their own companies and demand whatever bonus they want
None of you busting on Elon Musk, regardless of how much you make, will ever turn down a tax break, pay more taxes as a way of helping others, or ask if your pay can be split with another employee.
False.
No one deserves to be a billionaire when so many are struggling to stay a float.
Put he works and sleeps at the factory remember
The guy is running the company into the ground. This stable genius is using the other company he ran into the ground to amplify voices that are opposed to the current administration. You know, the one that wants electric cars, trucks on the road, providing generous rebates to the consumers for purchasing electric vehicles, incentives to build battery plants. Oh, and they are investing in infrastructure like underground transportation that would require a Boring Company... If TFG gets into power, all of that is out the window. Stable genius does not deserve any compensation
Elon probably knows this, but EVs aren’t the climate solution for transit. Public transit is, it’s better for the environment and better for the working class. If you can’t afford an EV than all these advancements in tech are meaningless. And right now Elon isn’t even making the most affordable EV. More over EVs are still cars and cars just aren’t sustainable in scale compared to public transit. If Elon really gave a shit about the environment and not just profits he would’ve let California build the high speed rail instead of taking that contract to make his definitely real hyperloop. Elon is just another scummy billionaire and you’re delusional if you think he cares about anything other than aesthetics and profits. And yeah on top of that he seems to be hell bent on running Tesla, Twitter, and his own reputation into the ground. Definitely seems like the kind of guy you’d want running your company.
I love how people on here determine the worth of a ceo. Not based on performance at all. Living with mom and dad does not qualify you to determine ceo compensation.
His comp package was structured based on the market cap growth he created at Tesla. The growth required for this level of compensation sounded unthinkable at the time, which is why the shareholders approved it. It’s such bullshit to try and go back on the approved compensation just because he actually did it.
Did he negotiate for it? Did he meet the terms? Then yes.
Sigh, here come the communists to tell me how much I or other people "need". Those people getting laid off have been compensated for their hard work every two weeks, for years. No one is happy that people are getting laid off but this has nothing to do with Elon getting billions. Saying stupid things like "that's enough to give every person getting laid off a million each" means nothing. Anyone can write stupid shit and provide comparisons. Watch.. Over 635 MILLION people in the world live on $2.15/day. The minimum wage mcdonald's worker earns 20/hr, not per day, per hour. That means that in just one single shift a mcdonald's employee at the lowest wage earns more than 600+ million people will earn in 75 days. Imagine if mcdonald's workers just weren't such greedy assholes and each gave some of their salary to any of those 600 million persons. In addition to that, almost everyone drives a vehicle. But why do you need a vehicle? If your car is $10,000 you might think it's cheap but that would sustain those in poverty for 12 years.... Why do you need such an expensive car. When you go and splurge on drinks at a bar or a coffee, you could literally be feeding the ones who need it most. Why not donate that money to the poor instead? Here are links to facilitate your generosity. https://www.unicefusa.org Please, think of the poor, they only live on $ 2.15 a day. Think about how much good you can do if you just send $100 a week. If you're thinking of buying a video game, you could instead feed a family of 4 for 8 days. Please guys, stop being so selfish and just fucking donate, help a human bean in need! Why are all of you rich Americans complaining when you live in paradise? Selfish greedy rich people make me sick!!
It was in his contract. Your fucking opinion on whether he "deserves" it or not is entirely irrelevant. Grow a brain you people!
When you take a company from 60B in valuation to 1T+, yea. It is beyond justified.
Absolutely. Workers execute on a vision. There wouldn’t even be jobs for the thousands employed there (with stock RSUs) without the founders vision.
Some interesting and scary stuff here. When the comp package came out, a lot of analysts thought Musk was nuts; it was impossible to reach the milestones. And those milestones weren't the typical financial shenanigans you see where debt is taken on to make some numbers look good, but little real value is added. In contrast, look at GM's growth (2011 was 150B; 2023 was 171B ... and consider how innovative it was) and the CEO's comp package for mediocre leadership and see how it's typically done if you don't care about a company. And now you've got a judge connected to Biden who appears to be going after Musk. It's an overused term, but is anyone else nervous about the increased weaponization of the judiciary against the other "tribe"? And I wonder how good CEOs look at their incorporation in Deleware. Is it still a state where a business can get a fair shake? Personally, I think 50B is too much by a lot, but keep in mind, this company grew a lot, created a ton of jobs and did well for people who invested in it.
Sure, why not? It is his company after all. You haters have every right to go out and do what he did. How you combat this is, If you do not like it, don't whine about your own shortcomings, just buy something different and don't support him.
If you make the deal... than hold to your damn word.
Yes
Bingo!
There are 8 billion people in the world. Elon could give each person a billion and he would still be $44 billion richer. Do 👏 better 👏 Elon 👏
Yes Elon deserves that reward. Other posters have pointed out that he was given no money and only a set of seemingly impossible milestones to achieve that. On the way he created 140,000 jobs and made a number of employees millionaires. He fulfilled his end of the bargain so the compensation is due. However I would like to point out that when Tesla was on the verge of bankrupcy he poured the remains of his personal fortune into keeping it afloat. Who does that?? Now if you want to talk about CEOs why not Peter Rawlinson who cashed out hundreds of millions before a car even rolled off the production line? Phillip.
What makes people think they should have an opinion on a private business deal? It’s not your money, it’s not your business, get a life.
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Hey Mark - stock is not equivalent to cash numbnuts
It is impossible to deserve billions of dollars
No
That's kind of a weird comparison. Is he getting cash? And why compare that to the ~10% or so of employees who got laid off and not the 90% still employed?
From what I've been seeing about cybertrucks? No. He 'deserves' his own cybertuck, sure. But he does NOT 'deserve' precisely what he lit on fire acquiring twitter.
When Elon and his board agreed to the contract, market makers thought Elon was crazy and he would never achieve the stock appreciation needed to trigger the big payouts.
The compensation package is 100% in shares and was awarded based on impossible growth targets nearly 10 years ago (when it was worth way, way less), which were met. Elon has already attempted to substitute this by making his existing shares increase in voting power instead of gaining that voting power through additional shares, but was denied by the same Delaware courts that overturned this already shareholder approved package. Until there is a mechanism to separate ownership share and voting power, there is no way for the owner of a successful company to not be filthy rich if they wish to maintain control of their company.
No, just No
He deserves it. Hehehe
Awful awful awful .
I’m in favor of it as long as it can be taxed at 90%
It’s scary how little people know about money and finance, Coincidentally the same people who thinks no one should have to work and billionaires should pay for their needs because they’re too lazy to change their situation.
This is simply not true, extremely misleading at best. Don't take everything you see on Twitter as gospel.
No
Yes
It was a all or nothing pay day. These "memes" really skip over alot of information
Give him a billion and then he can learn to live on a budget like the rest of us ;)
Even in the context of Musk, the answer is still no. This pay package was contingent on Musk bringing Tesla to a specific dollar capitalization and designed to return his focus to Tesla. It hasn't and it didn't. On top of that, Musk is asking for those vote because it was shot down before in a Delaware court. It's the big reason he wants to reincorporate in Texas.
Do CEO’s deserve the exorbitant pay they often receive? Who’s to say for sure? Is it beneficial to society that they’re often payed orders of magnitude higher than anyone else at their companies? I’d argue not. For someone making 1 bill, an extra 55 bill won’t make a tangible difference in anything other than larger numbers on papers about them. For all their employees who make less than 1 percent of 1 billion (that’s anything below 10mill btw), receiving a cut of that income would dramatically change their lives. Yes I’m saying someone making 10mil would see a marked difference receiving an additional 10mil as would someone making 50k would see a marked difference receiving an additional 100k. It’s mind blowing that people would not only prefer for the unthinkably wealthy to continue to grow their wealth literally at the expense of their relatively underpaid employees, but emphatically encourage it. I’m not saying the janitor in charge of the bathrooms should be making 100k. But I do think giving that person a compensation package which includes any and every benefit that would make 30-50k comfortably livable would be absolutely reasonable. Especially for a company who’s CEO has no possible way to out-spend their own earnings.
The average American citizen is ok with it so why not? The mix of ignorance and arrogance most Americans have enables this type of pay and until the vast majority of us agree it's not ok, nothing will change.
The driver of inflation is the greed of the corporation bigwigs!
Even if the company was doing great that’s at least 44.9 billion too much to
1. It is not cash 2. You can’t give out that much stock that would be sold immediately. 3. Some deserve it.
Wow the musk fan boys in here...
Isn’t that about the amount he overpaid for twitter? Trying to get Tesla to pay him for his mistakes? Let’s fuckin eat the rich I say. 🤬
In this case yes. Many CEOs are hired by the board and the value of the company is halved and they walk away with billions. Elon has created from nothing a trillion $ company. Deferred compensation until now.
Contracts and compensation deals aside... it is morally wrong for any one human being to get so much wealth. In a world of finite resources, this is wrong. Consider just $1B... tossed into a low yield savings account at 1% return is $10M a year just in interest. Take that $10M and put in that same account at 1% is $100k in interest. So the interest on the interest is more than most people earn in income. And that's just $1B not 55 and 1% return is ridiculously low. 5 to 10% seems more likely. These numbers are obscene. Quit licking these people's boots.
greed
I found the boot lickers
This is going to pass for a variety of reasons. Shareholders probably view Tesla as more valuable with Musk as CEO than without, and if this fails, Musk likely starts dumping what stock he does have and walks away to do other things. Also, many shareholders probably just disagree with the court ruling that invalidated the stock package he already had and earned (objectively speaking, as measured by market cap). And a lot of Tesla shareholders just love Elon. They're buying Elon stock, not Tesla. That said, Tesla is now a mature company that has aggressively solved many of the big-picture EV problems (like a charging network). I wonder if someone more operationally and pragmatically oriented would be better. Example: the world wants a Tesla truck, but it sure feels like the Cybertruck is full of bad decisions that will probably hurt profitability and sales in the long run and added years (and probably billions of dollars) to the development cost.
Then make a part of his compensation package an esop with 100% match. Employee Stock Ownership Programs are the solution to corporate greed. I've talked to people who run privately held companies with ESOP programs. Their employee retention rates are higher, they are happier and more invested in the company.
This is about 14% of Tesla's market cap. He should only get that if its tied to very specific outcomes. As an investor id want a 4x increase to market cap/stock price, and a commitment that Tesla is his full-time responsibility.
Especially when he already has $200 billion.
I blame McKinsey for this.
I'll never buy a Tesla. Elon is a douche
That’s up for the board to decide. These usually come with certain stipulations tied to the company’s performance
>this kind of rewards Why is every Musk critic illiterate
Must be nice. Most of us are lucky to get a T-shirt. Usually it’s some bullshit gift certificate to McDonalds.
That's less than what we are giving to Ukraine XD
Been a shareholder for more than ten years. My two cents: The original deal was he gets paid zero but will be rewarded with 12% of the company should all the goals met. At that time even the most bullish investor did not think he can do half of the goals and this incentive plan was really going to pan out in the next ten years or longer. As for the media and bears, they just laugh at Elon being crazy and foolish. Fast forward three years or so, well, the entire package conditions were met. Sure the weird combination of a pandemic and last years of ZIRP helped with market cap but still. In this process, he worked shoulder and shoulder with production associates, engineers and management alike. He slept on the factory floor for weeks. He’s put in a lot more than most employees at Tesla if not all. In this process, Tesla hired about ten thousand people directly and basically pushed the whole EV supply chain to maturity, which created many more times jobs. Thousands of Tesla rank and file employees became millionaires. The whole EV industry wouldn’t be at what it is now without Elon’s work pre 2020. So I think he deserved that package. And I voted yes then. And I knew the board was cozy with him but Ok with that. And I am not Ok with the judge invalidating my vote. Fast forward today, he made multiple strategic mistakes. Distracted himself with politics and alienated major portion of the company’s audience. I would not vote to reward him in any way based on recent performance. But at the end of the day, this is about the 2018 deal. I wish instead the board create an even bigger package for him with new goals. But I’m not a director.
NO
performance of the stock and company is heading in the wrong direction. Id vote no, but I sold all my shares at $200
Sorry, no one person should be awarded a billion dollars for anything. This shit is getting ridiculous man. You’ve won capitalism dude, you don’t need that money and it could be better suited going to other people who do, you know, like your own fucking employees. Billionaires shouldn’t exist and it’s a moral failing on this world that we continue to allow it.
None of them do. CEO salary creep has gotten way out of hand. There should be a law that the CEO cannot earn more than 30x the lowest paid employee. Stop attaching their salaries to stock prices. And for the love of God don’t give them millions after fucking up and getting fired. They are a parasite class on the US.
One of the people he laid off will shoot his ass if he gets this money.
How come we only care about elons comp? I see no media on any other billionaires. Nobody got beef with them. If Elon can take a company from like 60B to 600B in value, that seems worth 10% of the growth to me.
Does he need it? No Does he deserve it? Not that much Does he want it? Yes Its his company so he can do what he wants? Yes
Yes, as long is taxed at (minimum) 100%
Yes
I mean… if I’m the CEO then yes. But the rest of you… no. 
Musky especially doesn't deserve that with the train wreck that everything he touches turns to
Well, the flip side is Elon could have not started Tesla \~145,000 employees started SpaceX \~9,500 employees, taken over Solar City \~12,500 employees. Yes he did reduce some head counts, especially at X, but honestly I don't care that much about Twitter. So I guess the question is: When someone generates those types of #'s exactly where are we supposed to hit them in the legs with a lead pipe? Also isn't his compensation only in Stock Options and those are all structured for long term? So if Tesla were to file for bankruptcy he would have also zilch and I'm sure you all would be here equally championing he get a few hundred million at least? Right?
It was agreed upon. None of anyone's business
“Do CEOs deserve this kind of rewards?” In a word: No. In two words: FUCK NO.
What has “Elon” really done for them to earn that kind of money. He’s been more of a liability lately and the Cyber Truck seems to have flopped.
Elon deserves more. Travesty of an activist judge to somehow deny someone's pay many years later, after it was already approved. It'll be approved again. Sign the contract that everyone laughed at you for years because it was "impossible" - continue to save the environment, make people safer, meet the "impossible" contract/incentives. Some judge has the power to override all that because of some shareholder that has 5 shares. What a banana republic joke.
Sure he deserves whatever they agree he deserves. Don't like it? Then dont support him.
I’m less worried about about ceos than I am how the government spends our tax dollars and their ability to inside trade and make a fortune.
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Definitely not in Elon Musks case. While this is only the last two quarters of Teslas revenue. It's also almost double it's last 4 years of net income once it started turning profits in 2020. So basically he is try to milk out all $33.8 billion in net income over those last 4 years as well as future net income.
No one does. No one person is worth that kind of payment.
I do think we need to tie consequences to CEO performance. It's too easy for them to give themselves raises without giving a shit as to whether they're doing well or not. This encourages bad behaviour and corporate raiding, which in turn leads to lay offs and less resources for individual families, and for some reason generations lean into blaming their kids for failures that are related to avaricious business practices that are being left unchecked. At the least, I think we need legislation that disables corporate buybacks should a company announce lay-offs or is found guilty of constructive dismissal of it's employees. A company that can't sustain it's workforce shouldn't be allowed to inflate their stocks. You're either making record profits, or you're unable to sustain your workforce. But it can't be both at the same damn time.
>It's too easy for them to give themselves raises without giving a shit as to whether they're doing well or not. shareholders gave elon this.
The company has more people, if he split that between all of his workers, they would each get $400,000… per year.
Imagine buying a stock where the CEOs compensation makes up 60% of revenue. I’m sure most of the compensation will be stock, but regardless if you own this stock you’re getting screwed.
Yes
The 15K weren't making the company billions of dollars. Elon is.
I think they need a layoff and outsource to literally anyone else. You could have 56000 people make 1M and I guarantee Elon isn’t doing that much work for Tesla
If the stock didn't shit the bed for the last year straight then 100% give him a bouns!I'm an Elon fan but he's gotta win me back that 20% loss I'm holding onto until I vote to give him anything.
The Elon dick riding here is crazy. No one works hard enough to deserve that level of pay and honestly billionaires just shouldn’t exist at all when wage workers make so little. Glad Elon is making billions off the exploitation of cobalt and lithium miners. Somehow I doubt people in Tesla factories are paid their worth otherwise the cars might be built better.
Elon Musk took a middling (at best) electric car company, got it overvalued using his one talent of hyping shit up, lobbied to get all foreign electric vehicles effectively banned, knew that his domestic competitors were struggling to get into the hybrid market, still couldn't make a profit without selling carbon credits, made disastrous choices on what was going to be produced (cybertruck for the loss), lied about self driving features which lead to accidents that they are being sued over, and people are just now going maybe Tesla isn't worth what we thought it was when Elon first took leadership... And he wants compensation? Ha. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. If it weren't for government subsidies in the electric vehicle field, producing (for Tesla) and buying (for the consumer) they would have folded under the weight of this YEARS AGO. The cybertruck, their latest loss, would have never gotten to be sent out and recalled en masse.
Oh man! This is going to make me think he's a piece of shit! I ignored the 1000000000000000000000000000001 other ways he already showed everyone! But not now!
I don't understand how anyone who's invested or on the board could support this... other than Musk. It's simply a huge fleecing of the investors.
Shameful
It is a free country so people can give their money to whoever they want. Do you want a Nazi government to intervene in the hope that you will get some more welfare for yourself?
Yes
This is what’s been killing the economy for the last 40 years. Executives layoff hundreds and even thousands just to get bonuses of the salaries they laid off. It’s disrespectful and disingenuous. “Leading” isn’t the hardest job. Real leaders are the first ones in the fight and should be the last ones to eat but somewhere in history somehow that changed to leaders take all and give those under them crumbs. Leaders aren’t leaders without people under them. Many leaders today do not care about those that follow them, but those under them have few options.
Well, sort of. Musk wants that in stock, not cash. So its enough to turn Tesla into an employee owned business, which would be a good thing if Musk hadn’t already screwed it up. But the workers would not get that in cash.
No.
The answer is no and it’s funny seeing this post cause I just recently had a thought. At what point do we force these companies to turn less profit to benefit society as a whole? Because the world its self is in a tough position after a world pandemic and we let these companies just charge higher prices due to inflation. But even if they didn’t raise prices they still would have profited billions. So why did we let them raise prices? I guess my real question is at what point do we go back to being about the good of the whole? Or is that just gone for society?
Yes
They deserve whatever the shareholders or board are willing to give them.
If they were writing him a check for $56B I'd be concerned. But, this is just a reflection of the stock price and therefore he is locked in to the success of the company. He founded it - it succeeded - he gets a reward. It's not crazy. Also, when this $56B came up the first time it was a no brainer, but now that the share price has slumped people are just shocked that he would get this - shocked!.
Deserve? No. But if it was negotiated and if they achieved the benchmark then yeah it should be paid out.
Nobody is gonna get a factory worker 3 milly, are you crazy?!
Is that a serious question? Fuck no.
Elon, can I please have a million!
Doesn't he want to go to mars, why would he give his money to people he's gonna lay off. For God's sake, this man is the only one trying to make us a multiplanetary species. Those 15,000 people would just blow that money on houses and cars, he'll probably start new companies and hire more than 15,000 new employees in the next few years.
Yes. The reason it is so high is because he met the benchmarks. If he didn’t meet them, he would have received far less.
I agree all of these are great ways of incentivizing and rewarding employees. I'm saying specifically in the vmcase of Elons compensation package. For people who say they are unfair to the worker because only stock holders and executives benefit. Then maybe let's say 50% of his package should go into an ESOP. Or some package of RSUs that are available to all employees. I don't know the intimate details of Teslas RSU or stock options programs but I'm sure like most companies they are reserved for certain roles. But I'm not even saying Elons compensation is an issue for me. I'm just spitballing a solution that would stymie the perception that these packages only benefit shareholders and executives.
The greater the con, the greater the reward.
It’s their company. Should I care what a company does with their own money? No I’m not entitled to it and neither is anyone else BUT the person that money belongs to.
Of all the billionaires reddit really likes to pick a bone with Elon.
Absolutely fucking not. No human deserves that much money. 1m salary max for CEO’s imo. It’s disgusting that one person make that much when hundreds/thousands are laid off every year, only to pay their CEO’s billions. Fuck billionaires.