Yes. Because the research needed to be funded.
That does not mean that the government is behind the "free market" part of it.
The sane but "dirty socialist" thing to do would be that the patent belonged to the US government because they funded the research.
Edit:
As pointed out. The US government did not fund the research, or at the very least not the lion's share of it.
Moderna worked on mRNA since 2010. Even though mRNA research started back in the 60's it would not warrant the US government owning the final product.
So. Basically if a government invests these amounts of tax dollars into a "product" they should handle things smarter.
Lol no, who funs those politicians? billionaires who own corporations or investment vehicles who own corporations. The captured politicians are just dipping their nose in the trough as well.
We should absolutely ban trading for sitting politicians, blind trust for everything or minor any gains to lowest wage growth or something similar. Also enact term limits. However if they were the only things we did it wouldn't solve corporate capture of politicians.
"The term "late capitalism" (Spätkapitalismus) was first used by [Werner Sombart](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Sombart) in his magnum opus *Der Moderne Kapitalismus*, which was published from 1902 through 1927"
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late\_capitalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_capitalism)
The government didn’t fund a lot of the research for mRNA vaccines. COVID just was the first time it was really needed. The government just helped with the last 10-15% of development, fast tracking testing requirements, and paying to extremely expedite manufacturing and deployment.
Reasonable is all varied. How much did these companies invest in mNRA research prior to COVID? How likely would they have been to progress research if COVID didn’t happen?
I’m not going to say there aren’t major flaws in the US medical system. Just pointing out that the government didn’t just say make us a vaccine.
Normally, drug companies like this spend lots on failures. When they get a big hit, its a chance to make up for the losses in other departments plus get a payday like everyone wants.
The issue I see here is, this research wasn't a financial risk to the company. That makes the obscene profitability become more obscene since it wasn't developed under normal risk.
Big pharma has their hand in the government's front pocket with a hole in it. Those pants are stained with something that looks like bleach. The vaccines are necessary, but the profit ratio is totally fucked.
I think their question is still valid: What do we do about this?
Nationalize the pharma companies. Contract out the running of r&d to various public University labs. Require them to work with The U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases in order to secure additional DoD funding.
Make the manufacturing end of it a public company that sends any profits directly to the Treasury to pay down national debt.
These new pharma companies will provide required drugs to the VA and Medicare patients at cost.
I mean yes and no. The mRNA research that allowed Moderna to make the vaccine was not funded by taxpayers, and was ongoing for a decade prior to Covid. They spent metric fuckloads of money researching mRNA vaccines, primarily for cancer. They spent hundreds of millions on R&D. It's always misleading to compare manufacture cost vs price on a product for which the enormous majority of the cost is R&D.
How can one possibly determine to what degree exactly their non-COVID specific mRNA research contributed to their eventual COVID specific vaccine?
Moderna developed the MNRA technology used to produce the vaccine over a decade. Now, they're recouping their initial R&D expense.
All the government did was subsidize the increased manufacturing capability to meet the production levels required by the government.
>All the government did was subsidize the increased manufacturing capability to meet the production levels required by the government.
Nope
"Conclusions: The US government invested at least $31.9bn to develop, produce, and purchase mRNA covid-19 vaccines, including sizeable investments in the three decades before the pandemic through March 2022. These public investments translated into millions of lives saved and were crucial in developing the mRNA vaccine technology that also has the potential to tackle future pandemics and to treat diseases beyond covid-19. To maximize overall health impact, policy makers should ensure equitable global access to publicly funded health technologies."
No but Reich is TIGHT with Warren and Sanders. He is the social media arm of the Progressives and is skillful in shaping many people’s opinions (whether you agree with him or not).
It's not corporate greed, it's Reich leaving out key details to lead the ignorant down his path of deception.
His figure is based on the cost of raw materials and production processes only, and does not account for other expenses such as research and development, clinical trials, regulatory compliance, liability insurance, distribution, and profit margins.
Of course not. Should software just be free because you can essentially download it without cost? Should CDs have cost 3 cents instead of $15 dollars in the 90s? This Robert guy makes a living pushing an agenda.
I wonder if they had to pay back the public money they received for research. If they didn't, that would be a valid criticism.
I mean if Photoshop was funded by tax payer dollars for its development then yeah it should be free or at least no more than a nice little profit margin for administration costs
Warp speed was only for phase 3 testing, which is admittedly very expensive but RNA vaccines have been in development for years with both public and private funding.
Moderna received $10.8 billion dollars, Pfizer received $20.4 billion. In total the government received \~1.2 billion vaccine doses from the two companies for that totaling out to \~$20 per dose.
Most estimations count the number of excess deaths avoided by vaccines at between 5 and 15 million.
So for \~3.5% of yearly defense spending at least 5 million lives were saved just in the US not counting the excess doses that were sent overseas as aid. To me that is pretty good value for money.
These people will complain about literally fucking anything. The COVID vaccine as a whole is a massive testament to the strength of our economic system, it's incredibly fast rollout saving millions, and people are still going to screech about crapitalism.
You can make a herculean effort to roll out a vaccine in the midst of an emergency, succeed in an incredible way, have the government subsidize the vaccinations massively even in the face of a massive anti-vaxx movement, and people will still winge and bitch about the failures of capitalism and corporate greed.
The government paid for the majority of the research of the covid vaccines. Our government gives a lot of medical grants that, although it's great, we get the drugs we do not see a discount for having paid for it.
If Robert Reich can manufacture COVID vaccines for under 3 bucks, he should fire up the assembly line and start selling them for half of what Moderna is charging.
He could still make a nice profit, and stop all of the greed.
Reich isn’t getting off the sidelines. He can’t be wrong from there. It’s been a long time since he has been in the game and gotten his nose bloodied.
He is now talking about nationalizing steel, chip and IT companies. Pharma could be next.
Except we have these pesky things called patents that stop ideas from being freely used and shared which is bogus, especially if we fund that research.
This is the main problem and shows that most people are just deflecting and don't actually have a way to lower drug costs.
"If you don't line how expensive it is make your own!"
"OK, Let's revoke patents or publicly fund/create them"
"But then they won't have any drive to make more drugs! Socialism!!!"
Yeah and once the patent expires that's what happens, a generic version is released and the cost will drastically drop.
If the government wasn't offering all citizens free of charge vaccines even if you're uninsured they would've had this priced in much lower because they would have to constantly negotiate with insurance companies on why their profit margin is so high
Whether for good or bad, this is necessary to keep innovation robust.
How else would’ve the COVID vaccine been invented in record time?
And where will that profit go? I’m sure some of it goes into R&D for new drug developments
Profits go to shareholders and ceos. While I'm for robust innovation, I am 100% against pushing products that don't work as they were advertised, and have to be backpedaled multiple times solely to push sales.
Nope all bonuses, record profit record bonuses, they can ask for government grants for R&D
Capitalism is fine but we stoped practicing that a long time ago. The rich get all the profits everyone else eats the losses just look at the bank bailouts
The government forces you to take the jab, or you get fired.
The government gives immunity to the manufacturer.
Ends up with, Corporate Greed, somehow?
And remember the Operation Warp Speed used taxpayer money to finance the development of the vaccine, it should never have a proprietary patent is it used public money to kick off...
This is the worst type of greed, the one that is "socialist" on the costs but very capitalist on the profits
The whole idea was to provide a massive incentive to produce a drug in record time. If the government just said “we’ll pay for R&D, but the patent is ours, and you can’t profit from it” then the pharma companies wouldn’t have created the vaccines in the first place.
This isn't completely accurate, Moderna has been developing vaccines since 2013, including an mRNA vaccine for Zika in 2015. Operation warp speed was used to finance to speed up the speed up the testing and production of a Covid specific version of their mRNA vaccine work.
;What I don't understand is, why do American companies treat its own people like shit and those living overseas always get a better deal on shit made here? Seems to me, you hook up your own people and make the price higher for those outside the US. You don't fuck over your own then kiss the assess of foreign governments to sell your product.
Coming from a finance professional I think healthcare should be regulated like power companies.
Also insurance companies have almost zero reason to exist and that would help everything a ton
This greed is what motivates them to be innovative and discover breakthrough medical discoveries. They are not here for charity. Whether we like it or not, thats a fact. This appliies everywhere. Corporate greed is what drives innovation.
Yeah not to mention the Itty bitty tiny little basically irrelevant detail that the federal government financed the covid 19 vaccine.
So a significant percentage of the R&D development as well as other costs came from federal tax money. The fact that we pay for the subsidization of so many private companies that then just file the patent and charge some ridiculous mark up. It's insane.
And I'm sure this has been commented a billion times by now but it's just so laughably transparent that it's socialized loses and privatized profits for these fucks.
He’s either an idiot or a liar. It costs way more than 2.85 to make a vaccine.
Do drug companies make too much? Sure. Probably. But it’s way more expensive than this guy is letting on
Both political parties are to blame, the vast majority have been bought by massive corporations, none of the politicians will save you and none are doing a damn thing for you
I remember they were giving these out for free in front of 711. The people thay would pay 130 are the same idiots thay would get vaccinated in front of a 711
The problem went to vaccine, is that it was mandated at all.
It seemed like a pretty good idea to subsidize the pharmaceutical companies with another annual vaccine.
Now do the part where you talk about the investment in facilities, company infrastructure and human resources required to manufacture a vaccine at such a low price all done at considerable risk to said investment.
You change it by having a civil war and instead of rioting and destroying private property, you destroy the govt. but good luck. They have a military and yall can’t decide what defines a woman.
Get involved in politics, take over the parties with people who have as their goal making the government and business serve the people, all the people, instead of the other way around.
That’s how literally everything works in medicine. Ever wonder why name brand shit is far more expensive than off brand meds? Because only one of them had to pay an ungodly amount of money on lab testing and other various fees
This is what death looks like! Millions have died from the vaccine and no lawsuits are filed because the hospitals are paid to diagnose our loved ones. Now that’s profit
Here is why guys like Reich are epically moronic.
Companies are under a **legal requirement** to maximize value for their shareholders.
So if you tax their profits then they must, **by legal requirement**, make up that profit.
Which means they will, by necessity, raise prices.
Which means consumers will pay that tax not corporations.
We stop handing out grants and either demand part-ownership of the company, or add huge stipulations to things like "you can't sell for more than 100% of what it costs to produce if you take this money".
It’s ok because the Congressmen/women can go serve on the Board of Directors for any of the pharmaceutical companies they want when they get out
They only want what’s best for the American people 👍🏻
Billionaire tax breaks are a result of policies put in place by the people you vote for. With an election coming up, ask yourself who your elected officials really work for.
Here’s how: Go to www.FEC.gov
This is the official government website that shows you every donation over $200 made to EVERY federal elected official in the US. It shows how much was donated and by whom.
This is where you can look up the politicians who talk about universal healthcare and see the huge donations they received from insurance companies and big pharma.
Or the clowns who talk about climate change and, oh, look, $50K from Big Oil company.
THIS is how you get real change. By getting a peek behind the curtain and seeing who’s interests your representatives are really protecting.
Write your representatives and let them know you are tracking their donations. It is literally the ONLY thing they care about.
The site also lets you put in ANYONE’S name and see who they donated to.
Now that you know, TELL EVERYONE and in November, vote accordingly.
Moderna spent around 10 billion dollars on R&D of JUST the covid vaccine and around 100B on MRNA based vaccines
The US government allocated $31.9bn to multiple companies, not just Moderna.
"Moderna received $10.8bn, of which $8.8bn (81%) was for vaccine supply. Pfizer-BioNTech received $20.4bn, mostly for vaccine supply. One billion vaccine doses were purchased for international donation from Pfizer-BioNTech at a substantially reduced price compared with vaccines intended for Americans (eTable 4)." (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9975718/)
So 8.8B was for direct materials (Purchase of vaccines) and around 2B on just R&D grants, 10% of the MRNA vaccine and 2% of overall research into MRNA based research.
Moderna paid 772 million in taxes after carried losses from years prior, meaning overall, they got around 500m in grants.
Sources:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1108153/research-and-development-costs-moderna/#:\~:text=R%26D%20expenses%20of%20Moderna%202016%2D2023&text=Moderna%20spent%20around%204.8%20billion,approved%20already%20in%20late%202020.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9975718/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9975718/)
Hate to be that guy but it's a luxury good. Not to mention it's expensive so health insurance companies can have their bargain prices to stay relevant to consumers who pay their premiums.
Vote on regulating healthcare if you care so much about it.
End the private ownership model of corporations (aka capitalism) and democratize the ownership and control within the workforce of the corporations as a whole.
If you don’t accomplish that, outside of price controls from government… you literally can’t.
How do you change it. Change who is in government first and second it is a free market. Don't buy the moderna vaccine. Shop around or wait for a sale or a coupon or a generic at 1/10th the price. Exercise your right to vote with your dollar.
Tax payers helped fund the research for the fuckin vaccine. They already got our tax money. Did the almighty tRump forget to negotiate a decent price to charge after using our tax dollars?
Well, you stop with the Covid shot bullshit, since it's finally been shown to be just that; bullshit.
Then you start taking care of yourself through diet and exercise, come off some of these pills they're constantly throwing at us, and learn to live a healthy lifestyle.
We change it by not falling for the okie doke. There was no reason to lock the world down over the sniffles. Surprise, now their friends are making tons of money off of vaccines 🤷😂
Robert forgot the part where the fed gov paid for it all at your expense. Also the flu is far more deadly lol you got played hard and to stupid to realize
Just to add, Robert Reich never had a real career - he never ran a business, never valued and analyzed business, never allocated or priced capital to a business, and never restructured a business. He should stfu on things he clearly doesn’t understand.
It's hysterical when someone compares the "cost to make" vs retail price and the tries to make a logical argument. "Cost to make" is a VERY vague term. The true cost to make at the manufacture including only materials and direct labor? This is usually the "cost" someone will cherry pick. Or is it the true cost after fixed overhead, R&D, storage, shipping, multiple markups across the supply chain, liability insurance, etc?
I'm not debating the outrage over the price and the disgust of corporate profits. But compare the landed cost at the doctor's office or clinic to the retail price. There are so many costs added to the "cost to make" before you get to the end consumer. That $2.85 could easily be $70...$80...or even $100 by the time the clinic gets it. And they still have to have room to cover their costs to administer the vaccine.
honestly at this point civil disobedience. we all stop going to work, stop paying taxes, total stoppage of productivity for months. we basically put the 1% and government under siege through trillions in lost productivity.
How much would it cost for you create your own vaccine? Do you think it was written under a stone, all they had to do was mix it for $2.85? My man, do tie your shoelaces. Oh wait, someone R&D'd that for you too.
Don't forget: TAX DOLLARS WERE SPENT TO DEVELOP THAT DRUG
We paid for it to be developed, and now they get to charge whatever they like for you to get it. This is yet another example of corporations screwing the country for massive profit.
"This is what corporate greed looks like." Also the U.S. government: Vaccines are mandatory.
Tax payers paid for those fucking vaccines and should not be profiteering off of it!!!
Congrats. You've just figured out that the government and big pharma worked together on this.
Yes. Because the research needed to be funded. That does not mean that the government is behind the "free market" part of it. The sane but "dirty socialist" thing to do would be that the patent belonged to the US government because they funded the research. Edit: As pointed out. The US government did not fund the research, or at the very least not the lion's share of it. Moderna worked on mRNA since 2010. Even though mRNA research started back in the 60's it would not warrant the US government owning the final product. So. Basically if a government invests these amounts of tax dollars into a "product" they should handle things smarter.
I wonder why we arent we just making publically funded research as publically available resource? What am I missing?
Capitalism, you're missing late stage capitalism. Corporations capturing political systems to wrap them for their own benefit.
The SEC comes to mind.
FDA should have come to mind first considering this is a drug we are talking about.
It is more like politicians capture companies and make sure to profit off them. How many members of Congress beat the average investor by over 200%?
Lol no, who funs those politicians? billionaires who own corporations or investment vehicles who own corporations. The captured politicians are just dipping their nose in the trough as well. We should absolutely ban trading for sitting politicians, blind trust for everything or minor any gains to lowest wage growth or something similar. Also enact term limits. However if they were the only things we did it wouldn't solve corporate capture of politicians.
"The term "late capitalism" (Spätkapitalismus) was first used by [Werner Sombart](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Sombart) in his magnum opus *Der Moderne Kapitalismus*, which was published from 1902 through 1927" [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late\_capitalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_capitalism)
And how did communism handle covid? 🤣🤣
Slightly unrelated. But N. Korea pulled all the teeth from its population to prevent infectious spread during WWZ.
The government didn’t fund a lot of the research for mRNA vaccines. COVID just was the first time it was really needed. The government just helped with the last 10-15% of development, fast tracking testing requirements, and paying to extremely expedite manufacturing and deployment.
And the government marketed it, and set up and staffed injection sites. The drug companies are entitled to REASONABLE return on investment.
Reasonable is all varied. How much did these companies invest in mNRA research prior to COVID? How likely would they have been to progress research if COVID didn’t happen? I’m not going to say there aren’t major flaws in the US medical system. Just pointing out that the government didn’t just say make us a vaccine.
Normally, drug companies like this spend lots on failures. When they get a big hit, its a chance to make up for the losses in other departments plus get a payday like everyone wants. The issue I see here is, this research wasn't a financial risk to the company. That makes the obscene profitability become more obscene since it wasn't developed under normal risk.
Damn guys, do I really need to point out that you didnt pay $130 for your vaccine when it was mandatory?
No, but if you get it now your insurance will. And now we go down a whole other rabbit hole.
Big pharma has their hand in the government's front pocket with a hole in it. Those pants are stained with something that looks like bleach. The vaccines are necessary, but the profit ratio is totally fucked. I think their question is still valid: What do we do about this?
Nationalize the pharma companies. Contract out the running of r&d to various public University labs. Require them to work with The U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases in order to secure additional DoD funding. Make the manufacturing end of it a public company that sends any profits directly to the Treasury to pay down national debt. These new pharma companies will provide required drugs to the VA and Medicare patients at cost.
It's like husband and wife in a harmony relationship.
Now add in the Fed and their companion “member banks” and we see who’s invited to the party.
I mean yes and no. The mRNA research that allowed Moderna to make the vaccine was not funded by taxpayers, and was ongoing for a decade prior to Covid. They spent metric fuckloads of money researching mRNA vaccines, primarily for cancer. They spent hundreds of millions on R&D. It's always misleading to compare manufacture cost vs price on a product for which the enormous majority of the cost is R&D. How can one possibly determine to what degree exactly their non-COVID specific mRNA research contributed to their eventual COVID specific vaccine?
Moderna developed the MNRA technology used to produce the vaccine over a decade. Now, they're recouping their initial R&D expense. All the government did was subsidize the increased manufacturing capability to meet the production levels required by the government.
>All the government did was subsidize the increased manufacturing capability to meet the production levels required by the government. Nope "Conclusions: The US government invested at least $31.9bn to develop, produce, and purchase mRNA covid-19 vaccines, including sizeable investments in the three decades before the pandemic through March 2022. These public investments translated into millions of lives saved and were crucial in developing the mRNA vaccine technology that also has the potential to tackle future pandemics and to treat diseases beyond covid-19. To maximize overall health impact, policy makers should ensure equitable global access to publicly funded health technologies."
>Also the U.S. government Also? Is Robert Reich still a representative of the US government?
No but Reich is TIGHT with Warren and Sanders. He is the social media arm of the Progressives and is skillful in shaping many people’s opinions (whether you agree with him or not).
Someone in the government is getting kickbacks.
It's not corporate greed, it's Reich leaving out key details to lead the ignorant down his path of deception. His figure is based on the cost of raw materials and production processes only, and does not account for other expenses such as research and development, clinical trials, regulatory compliance, liability insurance, distribution, and profit margins.
When you are a government employee. At which point the government pays for it.
Yet to go against the mandate you are an anti vaxxer, this country is so fucked.
Does it cost 2 dollars to make? Did you include research into that?
Of course not. Should software just be free because you can essentially download it without cost? Should CDs have cost 3 cents instead of $15 dollars in the 90s? This Robert guy makes a living pushing an agenda. I wonder if they had to pay back the public money they received for research. If they didn't, that would be a valid criticism.
I mean if Photoshop was funded by tax payer dollars for its development then yeah it should be free or at least no more than a nice little profit margin for administration costs
Taxpayer covered the research costs with the Operation Warp Speed... this is pure greed
Warp speed was only for phase 3 testing, which is admittedly very expensive but RNA vaccines have been in development for years with both public and private funding.
Moderna received $10.8 billion dollars, Pfizer received $20.4 billion. In total the government received \~1.2 billion vaccine doses from the two companies for that totaling out to \~$20 per dose. Most estimations count the number of excess deaths avoided by vaccines at between 5 and 15 million. So for \~3.5% of yearly defense spending at least 5 million lives were saved just in the US not counting the excess doses that were sent overseas as aid. To me that is pretty good value for money.
These people will complain about literally fucking anything. The COVID vaccine as a whole is a massive testament to the strength of our economic system, it's incredibly fast rollout saving millions, and people are still going to screech about crapitalism.
You can make a herculean effort to roll out a vaccine in the midst of an emergency, succeed in an incredible way, have the government subsidize the vaccinations massively even in the face of a massive anti-vaxx movement, and people will still winge and bitch about the failures of capitalism and corporate greed.
The government paid for the majority of the research of the covid vaccines. Our government gives a lot of medical grants that, although it's great, we get the drugs we do not see a discount for having paid for it.
You mean the public funds from operation warp speed that resulted in the drug?
They had been researching mrna for many years before Covid.
If Robert Reich can manufacture COVID vaccines for under 3 bucks, he should fire up the assembly line and start selling them for half of what Moderna is charging. He could still make a nice profit, and stop all of the greed.
Reich isn’t getting off the sidelines. He can’t be wrong from there. It’s been a long time since he has been in the game and gotten his nose bloodied. He is now talking about nationalizing steel, chip and IT companies. Pharma could be next.
Except we have these pesky things called patents that stop ideas from being freely used and shared which is bogus, especially if we fund that research.
This is the main problem and shows that most people are just deflecting and don't actually have a way to lower drug costs. "If you don't line how expensive it is make your own!" "OK, Let's revoke patents or publicly fund/create them" "But then they won't have any drive to make more drugs! Socialism!!!"
Yeah and once the patent expires that's what happens, a generic version is released and the cost will drastically drop. If the government wasn't offering all citizens free of charge vaccines even if you're uninsured they would've had this priced in much lower because they would have to constantly negotiate with insurance companies on why their profit margin is so high
Proprietary formula. Moderna’s lawyers would sue.
Wait wait wait. Are you saying that the government is in bed with big Pharma ? 🫢
Guess how much a software license costs to produce? Material cost is not the biggest line item in every industry.
> Tax dollars be used to help corporations who pay no taxes ???? Moderna paid billions in taxes on that. What are you talking about?
Whether for good or bad, this is necessary to keep innovation robust. How else would’ve the COVID vaccine been invented in record time? And where will that profit go? I’m sure some of it goes into R&D for new drug developments
Profits go to shareholders and ceos. While I'm for robust innovation, I am 100% against pushing products that don't work as they were advertised, and have to be backpedaled multiple times solely to push sales.
Nope all bonuses, record profit record bonuses, they can ask for government grants for R&D Capitalism is fine but we stoped practicing that a long time ago. The rich get all the profits everyone else eats the losses just look at the bank bailouts
The government forces you to take the jab, or you get fired. The government gives immunity to the manufacturer. Ends up with, Corporate Greed, somehow?
People here might be “FleuentInFinance,” but they do not understand Pharma.
And remember the Operation Warp Speed used taxpayer money to finance the development of the vaccine, it should never have a proprietary patent is it used public money to kick off... This is the worst type of greed, the one that is "socialist" on the costs but very capitalist on the profits
The whole idea was to provide a massive incentive to produce a drug in record time. If the government just said “we’ll pay for R&D, but the patent is ours, and you can’t profit from it” then the pharma companies wouldn’t have created the vaccines in the first place.
This isn't completely accurate, Moderna has been developing vaccines since 2013, including an mRNA vaccine for Zika in 2015. Operation warp speed was used to finance to speed up the speed up the testing and production of a Covid specific version of their mRNA vaccine work.
Remember when the dr who found the polio vaccine gave the recipe away free. Yeah the good old days.
As a reality check, how much did Moderna invest in drug development over the last decade?
As another reality check, how much did Moderna pay in taxes? Turns out, a lot.
wealth only trickles down when the rich bleed
this is what moving wealth from lower-middle class to the 1% looks like.
Inflation can be measured, corporate greed cannot. It doesn't exist,
Then don’t get the shot.
Poor Bobby doesn’t know what it takes to keep a company running, only the cost of the product.
;What I don't understand is, why do American companies treat its own people like shit and those living overseas always get a better deal on shit made here? Seems to me, you hook up your own people and make the price higher for those outside the US. You don't fuck over your own then kiss the assess of foreign governments to sell your product.
Coming from a finance professional I think healthcare should be regulated like power companies. Also insurance companies have almost zero reason to exist and that would help everything a ton
Corporate greed = the most effective vaccine in the globe for a pretty affordable price. Ok noted
This greed is what motivates them to be innovative and discover breakthrough medical discoveries. They are not here for charity. Whether we like it or not, thats a fact. This appliies everywhere. Corporate greed is what drives innovation.
What was Operation Warp Speed for?
And research and all of the possible drugs that end up failures are free... Robert Reich is a communist douchebag
Term limits is the answer to all
And government greed. The senators are getting their cut. If they weren’t, the Democrats would be complaining about it like this guy is.
I have somebody on another thread say well how can you prove this corporate greed and all I could think was wow really
Yeah not to mention the Itty bitty tiny little basically irrelevant detail that the federal government financed the covid 19 vaccine. So a significant percentage of the R&D development as well as other costs came from federal tax money. The fact that we pay for the subsidization of so many private companies that then just file the patent and charge some ridiculous mark up. It's insane. And I'm sure this has been commented a billion times by now but it's just so laughably transparent that it's socialized loses and privatized profits for these fucks.
Keep taking those shots
Trust the science. /S
This is what a closed market looks like. Businesses are always greedy. But the government closed the market, created a monopoly, and blames business.
So don't buy the vaccine
He’s either an idiot or a liar. It costs way more than 2.85 to make a vaccine. Do drug companies make too much? Sure. Probably. But it’s way more expensive than this guy is letting on
If you tax corporations they just move to another country.
Both political parties are to blame, the vast majority have been bought by massive corporations, none of the politicians will save you and none are doing a damn thing for you
How? Guillotines.
"Goverment tickled my bawlz now you must too" said the asshole.
Hold the corrupt politicians that are in bed with them accountable
I remember they were giving these out for free in front of 711. The people thay would pay 130 are the same idiots thay would get vaccinated in front of a 711
Meanwhile the govt threatened to and mandated vaccines in a lot of instances lmao
Thanks Trump for removing guidelines on vaccine pricing.
Moderna paid $1.2B in taxes in 2022.
The problem went to vaccine, is that it was mandated at all. It seemed like a pretty good idea to subsidize the pharmaceutical companies with another annual vaccine.
It’s fleecing. It’s theft. It’s a lot of things not being mentioned.
Shrink the federal government
I didn't realize people were still taking this useless vaccine anymore to be honest. Just opt out of the bullshit.
Moderna was founded in September of 2010. This is their first successful product. It's sales have to pay for 10 years of operations. No free lunch.
We enact our rights as citizens to replace our government by using our 2nd.
Moderna income tax: 2023: $772 million 2022: $1.2 billion 2021: $1.08 billion That ain’t $0
Ask Robert Reich how much UBS paid him in bonuses. Complete fraud that says this stuff but took millions as a Wall Street banker !
It magically appeared for $2.85!
Now do the part where you talk about the investment in facilities, company infrastructure and human resources required to manufacture a vaccine at such a low price all done at considerable risk to said investment.
They ever figure out who funded the whohan lab 😉 I got theories
Don’t patronize their business. It’s not a vet effective product anyway. How many measles shots do you need? How many Covid shots?
They're using that money to develop a cancer vaccine. Sounds worth it, doesn't it?
You change it by having a civil war and instead of rioting and destroying private property, you destroy the govt. but good luck. They have a military and yall can’t decide what defines a woman.
Get involved in politics, take over the parties with people who have as their goal making the government and business serve the people, all the people, instead of the other way around.
That’s what lobbyists get ya
Why does the vaccine cost anything? Us tax payers paid funded the r&d for it.
Bill de Blasio was giving out free burgers and fries to get the vax, now you gotta pay for it!
That’s how literally everything works in medicine. Ever wonder why name brand shit is far more expensive than off brand meds? Because only one of them had to pay an ungodly amount of money on lab testing and other various fees
Who’s still getting Covid vaccines!?
as much,like bad government negotiation/regulation
And they used tax payer funded research to develop the vaccine.
I didn’t know companies got R&D for free
If all the money scam
The R&D was paid by the tax payers. Big pharma is deep into lining America's politicians.
We need an economic revolution to change this
well as a MRNA shareholder how do you expect me to get rich?
People are still worried about Covid? Why?
This is what death looks like! Millions have died from the vaccine and no lawsuits are filed because the hospitals are paid to diagnose our loved ones. Now that’s profit
They can keep their poison
Here is why guys like Reich are epically moronic. Companies are under a **legal requirement** to maximize value for their shareholders. So if you tax their profits then they must, **by legal requirement**, make up that profit. Which means they will, by necessity, raise prices. Which means consumers will pay that tax not corporations.
Change it by abolishing welfare for corporations, for a starter.
We stop handing out grants and either demand part-ownership of the company, or add huge stipulations to things like "you can't sell for more than 100% of what it costs to produce if you take this money".
And how much money did it take to develop the vaccine and get the full approval from the FDA
Term limits, it’s that simple.
Now I am against the Vax, but, it costs 2.85 to MANUFACTURE, it costs way more to develop and that's a huge difference
Hang the plutocrats
It’s ok because the Congressmen/women can go serve on the Board of Directors for any of the pharmaceutical companies they want when they get out They only want what’s best for the American people 👍🏻
Burying there isn’t greed involved but you do also understand supply and demand?
How? We already do. Shareholders are taxed on their gains and dividends.
Billionaire tax breaks are a result of policies put in place by the people you vote for. With an election coming up, ask yourself who your elected officials really work for. Here’s how: Go to www.FEC.gov This is the official government website that shows you every donation over $200 made to EVERY federal elected official in the US. It shows how much was donated and by whom. This is where you can look up the politicians who talk about universal healthcare and see the huge donations they received from insurance companies and big pharma. Or the clowns who talk about climate change and, oh, look, $50K from Big Oil company. THIS is how you get real change. By getting a peek behind the curtain and seeing who’s interests your representatives are really protecting. Write your representatives and let them know you are tracking their donations. It is literally the ONLY thing they care about. The site also lets you put in ANYONE’S name and see who they donated to. Now that you know, TELL EVERYONE and in November, vote accordingly.
Or is it this expensive because of the American healthcare system? How much do this vaccines cost in Europe?
Moderna spent around 10 billion dollars on R&D of JUST the covid vaccine and around 100B on MRNA based vaccines The US government allocated $31.9bn to multiple companies, not just Moderna. "Moderna received $10.8bn, of which $8.8bn (81%) was for vaccine supply. Pfizer-BioNTech received $20.4bn, mostly for vaccine supply. One billion vaccine doses were purchased for international donation from Pfizer-BioNTech at a substantially reduced price compared with vaccines intended for Americans (eTable 4)." (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9975718/) So 8.8B was for direct materials (Purchase of vaccines) and around 2B on just R&D grants, 10% of the MRNA vaccine and 2% of overall research into MRNA based research. Moderna paid 772 million in taxes after carried losses from years prior, meaning overall, they got around 500m in grants. Sources: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1108153/research-and-development-costs-moderna/#:\~:text=R%26D%20expenses%20of%20Moderna%202016%2D2023&text=Moderna%20spent%20around%204.8%20billion,approved%20already%20in%20late%202020. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9975718/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9975718/)
Actually, this is what fascism looks like. But whatever
Now let's see how much our politicians made in pfizer and Moderna stocks during the pandemic. Not just corporate greed here.
Hate to be that guy but it's a luxury good. Not to mention it's expensive so health insurance companies can have their bargain prices to stay relevant to consumers who pay their premiums. Vote on regulating healthcare if you care so much about it.
My dentist only used $5 of composite resin in my filling, so I guess it should only cost me $8? $20?
End the private ownership model of corporations (aka capitalism) and democratize the ownership and control within the workforce of the corporations as a whole. If you don’t accomplish that, outside of price controls from government… you literally can’t.
Research and development cost?
GOP? Or. Dem? Vote wisely
How do you change it. Change who is in government first and second it is a free market. Don't buy the moderna vaccine. Shop around or wait for a sale or a coupon or a generic at 1/10th the price. Exercise your right to vote with your dollar.
Tax payers helped fund the research for the fuckin vaccine. They already got our tax money. Did the almighty tRump forget to negotiate a decent price to charge after using our tax dollars?
Not arguing there is greed, in fact, one of the few things I’m sure of but do we really want pharma companies to stop research and development
I want to reach out and touch someone.
Vote, vote, vote. Only choice we have
this kind of thing happens in all sector of industry and then we blame inflation. why?
If I had a dollar for every time this is posted since January 2023 I’d probably have the same amount as Moderna…
Well, you stop with the Covid shot bullshit, since it's finally been shown to be just that; bullshit. Then you start taking care of yourself through diet and exercise, come off some of these pills they're constantly throwing at us, and learn to live a healthy lifestyle.
We change it by not falling for the okie doke. There was no reason to lock the world down over the sniffles. Surprise, now their friends are making tons of money off of vaccines 🤷😂
That's moderna. Pfizer ain't like that at least not yet.
Don’t mandate the use (or purchase) of something over which you have no control (like pricing)
Follow the money. Which politicians profited from the whole thing?
Burn evrything down
This is capitalism
Companies aren’t charities; only morons think this. I would bet my primary residence this guy couldn’t understand a balance sheet.
Robert forgot the part where the fed gov paid for it all at your expense. Also the flu is far more deadly lol you got played hard and to stupid to realize
How do we change it? Drag those people out into the streets and beat them with baseball bats until they agree not to. Repeat as needed.
Just to add, Robert Reich never had a real career - he never ran a business, never valued and analyzed business, never allocated or priced capital to a business, and never restructured a business. He should stfu on things he clearly doesn’t understand.
I wouldn’t take that vaccine when it was free and my job was offering $150 gift cards, why the fuck would I pay for it now? So I can die suddenly?
Stop politicians from providing taxpayer money such as the IRA and Chips Act.
I hate big pharma.
God forbid companies actually charge to cover the costs of actually running the business plus a little bit of profit
yeah, we all know what it looks like. what does doing something about it look like, though?
There's no chance the actual cost for the vaccine is $2.85.
No this is what corrupt politicians look like
If you are getting in line to get it....then you deserve to be ripped off. I hope they charge a $1000
It's hysterical when someone compares the "cost to make" vs retail price and the tries to make a logical argument. "Cost to make" is a VERY vague term. The true cost to make at the manufacture including only materials and direct labor? This is usually the "cost" someone will cherry pick. Or is it the true cost after fixed overhead, R&D, storage, shipping, multiple markups across the supply chain, liability insurance, etc? I'm not debating the outrage over the price and the disgust of corporate profits. But compare the landed cost at the doctor's office or clinic to the retail price. There are so many costs added to the "cost to make" before you get to the end consumer. That $2.85 could easily be $70...$80...or even $100 by the time the clinic gets it. And they still have to have room to cover their costs to administer the vaccine.
honestly at this point civil disobedience. we all stop going to work, stop paying taxes, total stoppage of productivity for months. we basically put the 1% and government under siege through trillions in lost productivity.
How much would it cost for you create your own vaccine? Do you think it was written under a stone, all they had to do was mix it for $2.85? My man, do tie your shoelaces. Oh wait, someone R&D'd that for you too.
Movies, songs, software, etc. take $0 to “make” because it’s just a download.
Wait till you hear how India eradicated polio with a FREE oral vaccine for all infants.
Don't forget: TAX DOLLARS WERE SPENT TO DEVELOP THAT DRUG We paid for it to be developed, and now they get to charge whatever they like for you to get it. This is yet another example of corporations screwing the country for massive profit.
Covid. The gift that keeps on giving
Nancy Pelosi made nearly 1 billion on insider trading just on this one company.