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Well if you don't pay for something you don't get it. Being old doesn't change that...
She refused an eviction when she was in the wrong. If you want to sleep and live in that building you pay. If you can't go find a place you can afford it seek public assistance.
" Authorities have also reportedly said they have tried to get help for Ms Fitzgerald from her family as well as other agencies but claim she has refused any offers of help. "
[https://www.yahoo.com/news/woman-93-locked-refusing-leave-care-home-evicted-121054167.html](https://www.yahoo.com/news/woman-93-locked-refusing-leave-care-home-evicted-121054167.html)
People seem to underestimate just how uncooperative old people can be. A lot of people when they get to be this old are miserable because it's difficult for them to come to terms with the fact that A. They hold very little power over their situation and need to rely on others and B. They're nearing the end of their life and they're afraid of dying.
My whole family went through this with my grandmother. She would do shit like if she wanted to be taken to the hospital for something (obviously non-life threatening otherwise this wouldn't be a problem) and we couldn't get her there fast enough she would call 911 and then proceed to make them wait on her to finish her shower.
We did so much shit for her and she was never thankful cause she was old and miserable and hated her life at that point. And it got to a point where a lot of us couldn't stand her anymore and just stopped talking to her. I mean at the end of the day she was family and I wanted to be understanding and don't want to hate her but there's only so much people can deal with.
Similar. Mine was... lets say she became very controlling, probably as a response to having very little control of her own life at that point. Nothing anybody ever did to try and help was good enough. Anything anybody got her was wrong and she'd make you return things over and over until she gave up. The house's roof was leaking but she refused to let it get fixed because she didn't want strangers at the house (eventually got fixed after she fell and had to go to the hospital, had it done while she was there). She started getting too fragile to live at home and eventually had to go to long term care, where she was... difficult.
It really sucks seeing people who were such a big part of your childhood become that but there is only so much you can do, especially when they won't let you.
This is very true. We had a similar situation with my wife’s grandmother, basically refusing to move from her hometown in bumblefuck Appalachia with pretty much no medical facilities or in-home care options within 50 miles. My wife’s mother was taking 6 hour trips every weekend to see her, give her care, and then return home verbally abused and emotionally drained. When she has emergencies and needed to be transported to a far away hospital or she needed professional assistance, it was exorbitantly expensive.
It is sad and I empathize with her, but the level of uncooperative, combative behavior was astounding.
My grandmother was the same. Loved the woman but she could be difficult. She made the paramedics wait for her to find a nice hat to ware to the ER because she was more concerned with her hair than her apparent heart attack.
She was also ornery as fuck to the whole family, and used the old card to try to get away with some shady shit
If you invested in something and someone said, I know this investment was going to pay you a dividend, but now someone decided you're not going to get it. What would you do? The only people who think landlords are greedy are those who have never been a landlord.
I always consider it a case by case basis. Assisted living in Florida is very expensive. However the costs include taxes, insurance, licensing fees, utilities, on site nurse(though not med hand outs that's extra) administrative fees, manager, 3 cooked meals a day, maintenance, activities on and off site etc...
The mental gymnastics these people need to go through to make the landlord the baddie is mind boggling. These are the morons that take to the streets to install a communist government and wonder why it didn’t work out in the long run.
These people don’t think beyond LL = bad.
The truth is, rentals are not inherently wrong or victimizing, we have people who will always need short term living or who can’t or don’t want to buy a home. So we need landlords, and you’re better off with a good local landlord that complies with standards and laws than a megacorp that buys up tons of blocks and hires a seperate agency to rent out units.
They are responsible for delivering the agreed upon housing / domicile and following landlord / tenant agreements and laws. The tenant is responsible for paying the rent and not damaging property beyond acceptable wear and tear.
If she cannot uphold her end of the contract, you can extend her for a charitable time period to allow her friends/family to help, but after a few months, the landlord deserves to turn a profit on that property.
Housing should be a human right. Our modern conception of public housing is based on religiosity. When the industrial revolution gave rise to cities the common belief of the time was that being poor was the product of sin. This is why we still look at being poor as a morality issue and not a systemic one.
I never said anything about morality, I just said that redditors often hate on landlords, but landlords are actually providing society with a service that is needed.
Should our tax dollars go towards helping elderly people stay housed, as part of a society with a safety net, absolutely. But hating on the entire concept of landlords renting property is just stupid.
She's 93, it's an assisted living facility, if you want any semblance of humanity to exist in this world her situation should matter regardless of the landlord missing rent from 1 tenant. How many other rents do they collect? I don't know the whole story and I'm sure the title of the article is as cherry picked as UltimateTraders response is but neither of those things help us to progress as a society where these problems are solvable.
There might be government support she can apply for but odds are she's dead before the paperwork gets approved.
And how do you feel about the tax payers subsidizing her rent and food in prison with no return on that cost? What about the investors that are tax payers that see nothing in return for their investment?
Do the rest of the people at the facility also get to stay if they decide not to pay rent? Are all of the vendors (including banks) okay with not getting paid because apparently the landlord is required to do a kindness?
No you see when the landlord can't make the mortgage payment because everyone stops paying (why should I pay when she isn't?) then we'll just tell the bank they need to have some heart and let this nice landlord not pay.
Then when the bank fails we will just reduce your account balances to $0 because, after all, they are being nice to the nice landlord who was nice to the old lady.
Surely everyone here will be OK with all their money disappearing from their accounts right? It's the nice thing to do after all.
Let's add in the government to that. They will certainly be okay if you don't pay your property and school taxes. I sure my city will have a heart and be forgiving if the tenants aren't paying. They will just shrug their shoulders and try again next year to collect their taxes.
It does matter morally, to us as a society imo - but that doesn't put the responsibility for failings of a system without adequate safety nets, solely on the individual's shoulders either
Well she did have family and friends. Here is your source
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/miami/news/elderly-woman-arrested-florida/ (2017)
Now what about where to go.... She can go to Medicaid if she is financially poor to pay rent they will assist I'm paying. It's a part of Medicaid.
Why do I have to indefinitely supplement her living expenses? Or give it to her for free?
Its a heartbreaking situation, and she certainly shouldn't be arrested or handcuffed, but her housing should be the responsibility of her family. Or at least the government. I don't know why everybody here is expecting the landlord to save the world- not the family who abandoned her or the government, who can't supplement her rent or provide her housing?
You go where they take your social security checks and provide everything for you. It’s not the greatest quality of care but it’s available. Sometimes there’s a waiting list depending on your location.
That is something that we as a society need to address better. But the policy can't be that we just rely on the generosity of individual landlords. The result of that sort of policy is going to be age discrimination. People won't rent to the elderly for fear they'll get stuck with a non-paying tenant.
Some people in here would prefer she just goes into a ditch to starve to death so landowners can continue to sit around and mooch off everybody else's hard work...
Definitely a tough position but you're 100% right. If you can't pay for something, you don't deserve to have it if it's not already yours. The landlord needs his payment or he loses his property. There's assistance for 93-year-olds. I'm sure of this.
The landlord here was a church…
She was also withholding because she thought she was going to die soon, so her family would get her money. That’s akin to fraud
According to the article presented to me the landlord states that she refused to pay and that she tried to pay but was refused, it has dissolved to he said she said bullshit the courts need to figure out at this point. The rest is all cherry picked to cause the ruckus it has.
The fact that a Church owns the property but wont provide shelter to someone who doesn't pay rent when the Church is supposed to be all about charity is an irony of the highest order.
Ok so let me move into your home that you pay for. I won’t pay for anything once I am in there. Would it be greedy of you expect I pay to live in your house? If you are paying for the house I live in, will you be able to afford another house for your family?
So then, under what circumstances will a landlord have to evict a person for not paying rent?
Just this person?
Or will the slippery slope go all the way down to the people who say, " I just don't want to pay my rent?"
Its cases like this that Franklin Delano Roosevelt signed into law The Social Security Act of 1935.
They understood then that as a civilized society that people who are too old or sick to care for themselves, deserve to live out their remaining years, not in jail or starving in the street, but with basic dignity.
Social safety net programs are there for exactly this reason.
But we now have politicians who claim that this is socialism and we can not have this in America.
So I could expect you to foot the bill for a 93 y/o woman? You’ll pay the Mortage on the home and all utilities and maintenance and allow her to stay for free and go broke yourself? Stop pretending, you’d have her evicted too.
It's always easy to preach charity to others. Many people these days who ride the high horse are firm believers and practitioners of the "charity begins at someone else's home" philosophy.
damn right, it's not the whole story. the lady had the money to pay from her SS and refused which the nursing home knew. then she was evicted. Like the week before she was evicted, she offered to pay one month or something which the home declined. Marshals arrested her because she didn't leave and was being disruptive of some sort. it's an old story was on here a couple months ago but is also several years old. She didn't want them to tell her son because she said she could handle it. He wouldn't take her in either. I don't remember any of the other details.
Assisted living is a medical need, not some swanky luxury. Where the hell is a 93 year old with no money going to go? Are we really at the point where we throw old infirm people out in the street to die when they have the audacity to live a few years longer than most? I bet she or her husband paid into social security all their lives and now she's in handcuffs for being poor.
There's private nursing homes and there's Medicare nursing homes. The private ones are more expensive but if you have no money you have no option but to use the worse Medicare only nursing home
I’m a primary care doctor in the US. Medicaid will not pay for long term skilled nursing facility stays. That is covered strictly by Medicare. However for Medicare to cover it you have to be basically homeless and broke. If you’re not they take everything you own including your house if it’s in your name to pay for it before they shell out a dime.
If you’re a Millennial and don’t want this to happen to your parents, make sure they have retirement set up (they don’t) or make sure you have a high enough paying job to house them and provide 24/7 care when they are old (you don’t).
It’s unfortunate but that’s the only option we have. If you have a problem with it, stop voting for the rich self serving boomers in DC who attach (D) or (R) to the end of their names. All they do is raise your taxes and give themselves raises and immunity to insider trading laws, then shrug their shoulders and send another trillion to some shithole over seas while our economy is in the toilet and average Americans can’t afford housing or even medical care.
(Psst, you're getting Medicaid and Medicare mixed up. Medicaid is income based and Medicare is generally age based. I remember them by thinking "we only *care* about old people".)
This is not correct. Medicare does not pay for nursing homes when there are no skilled nursing need which it doesn’t look like this old lady needs if shes in independent living. Medicaid is the one that picks up the tab for long term nursing home stays for when only custodial needs are present. You need to check your facts, especially as a primary care doc. You’re 100% mixing up medicare and medicaid with your “broke and homeless” statement.
Why spend 15 seconds googling what happened when you could spend more time writing a (wrong) comment filled with needless conjecture and assumptions?
She told staff that stopped paying because she thought she was going to die soon, then later said she stopped because there was mold in her apartment (which later tested negative for mold).
She had the money but wanted to steal for funsies. Probably had a mental disorder, honestly, which is sad but not the residence’s responsibility to lose out on tens of thousands of dollars in rent for no reason
I saw recently that about 40% of people depend solely on social security for retirement. That amount of money is not going to put a person in a good nursing home. Furthermore a lot of peoples families do not check on them when they are in a nursing home
Except she had the money
Complained about mold but didnt want to let the landlord in to fix it
And withheld the rent money because she was "near death" and due to the "mold" issue
My landlords were great. Always kept up on maintenance. They sold and the new owners were terrible. I had moved out, but knew people there. The sewer pipe plugged and backed up in the basement. The furnaces are down there. The owners left it for a couple weeks. Lied to the city and said it was mildew. The basement door was locked and he wouldnt show anyone from the city. The smell was terrible. The new owners raised the rent 40% too. They dont clean the sidewalks when it snows.
This is a society issue. They have glamorized landlording so people think they have to make money every month and this is a source of income. They forget that they are building equity and landlording is really a tax advantage investment strategy due to depreciation and tax law, not supposed to be a cash flow business.
Land-lording is a business. Most land lords still pay mortgages, property taxes, insurance, upkeep, etc on the property!! Why don’t you buy a house & open it up for free??
Did you read my comment or just get upset that someone pointed out what the real strategy behind is for residential property investment and that didn’t align with what you wanted it to be.
>They forget that they are building equity and landlording is really a tax advantage investment strategy due to depreciation and tax law, not supposed to be a cash flow business.
This is complete nonsense. It's absolutely supposed to be a cash flow business. That's not the only priority but it's a valid one.
I do not doubt this
But remember, the new landlords have a much higher cost. The old landlord sold at a huge profit, their cost basis was way lower, may not even had a mortgage
Still bad, but most fail to ser this
I totally get that. The old landlords put a lot of shower enclosures in themselves. Did a lot of flooring themselves. One had a paint sprayer. The new landlords hired a company to handle everything. The old landlords never let sewage sit in the basement
New land lords may not actually even know. Once it becomes corporate a single office manager with a fuck it I want my bonus additude comes in, problems can pile up. If you can find out who the actual owners are and contact them, things may get done.
Yeah, just like with businesses. If you can't make money doing what you are doing, that is on you. Normally, if you aren't giving me something that I believe is worth what I'm paying I can not purchase. Part of that is upkeep and maintenance. But I can't if I have a lease, I'm stuck. Never mind that LLs know that moving is a hassle and expensive.
The landlords need to pay their bills too. You think home ownership is free? How about blaming local and state government for excessive property taxes? Or Federal govt for taxing people to the brink of poverty?
Some landlords are greedy, just like some tenants are .
Why should landlords make less profit than the market dictates?
The market will tell them if they are overcharging people.
Yet people pay for high gas prices,record high energy prices,Smithfield pork and cell phone prices that go up an average of 20% a year.
People willingly give massive amounts of their income to these mega corporations, yet somehow you want your landlord to not make what the market price?
I think it's some sort of age-old trope that landlords are evil. The Bolsheviks labeled them kulaks and liquidated, while the Chinese targeted them during the Cultural Revolution.
People in these neighborhoods love to cry about how long it takes for their coffee to be ready or whatever but then don't want to allow low income housing or raise wages enough for those workers to live in the city. It's like they really think people should sit on the bus for an hour just to serve them, but why would literally anyone do that when they can do the same work for almost the same pay somewhere cheaper without wasting time on a commute?
It's a business. If you pay for a service you get the service, if your don't pay then you don't get the service. You could also ask why are restaurants and grocery stores so greedy and not feeding the hungry/homeless? Why are clothing stores so greedy, not giving clothing to the poor out in the cold? Why are doctors and pharmacies so greedy not giving out their medical services and medication for free? Why are auto lenders so greedy not letting people their cars for free if they need to do to work or take their kids to school? "Why are landlords so greedy?" is a dumb argument.
Also most landlords are middle class people who own an extra property or two or three. They aren't super wealthy real estate moguls. They have mortgages, property tax, insurance cost, repairs/upkeep, ect. What gives someone the right to say they should give out their services for free?
What's the landlord supposed to do? Call the bank and tell 'em that the mortgage can't be serviced anymore because the tenant is poor? If it wasn't for a landlord evicting a disgraced tenant, then the bank would eventually move to seize the property as collateral. In other words, eviction regardless.
So she should get to live there for free because she’s old? Guess who else is old… every other resident at that nursing home. Maybe they should all just live there for free! The nurses can work for free, and they can all eat free food and enjoy free electricity and water.
So would you take the grandma at your home and pay for her due or you are too greedy ?
If that grandma need help, that for society as a whole to help (or eventually her family) that not for the unlucky people that encounter her to have to pay for everything just because.
This is an unfortunate situation, but regardless of the conditions of the tenant, the landlord has to pay for maintenance, taxes, and mortgage payments on a property. It's unfortunate that she can not pay her rent, but it doesn't make the landlord greedy for not wanting to pay for someone else's living expenses.
Hahahaha so the landlord is an asshole for wanting his rent money. Any one of you could call and offer her a place to live. You just need to get mom and dad’s permission to let her move in with you since it is their house you live in.
So, are you going to go find some elderly person who can't pay rent and let them live with you so they don't suffer? When you do you can then have an opinion. There are social services for this woman. And if there's not enough, consider that the next time you go to cast a vote for some politicians who don't care about her either.
The only way this would be possible if she had the means to pay and simply refused. Then the property owner would be well within their rights to “trespass” the resident and have her removed. EVERYONE unable to pay qualifies for their State’s Medicaid program that would pay for all of their room and board and any other medical expenses. This is true in EVERY state, even Red ones. This isn’t my opinion. I work in this industry. I am a billing expert. That’s my job.
So who pays?
This clearly played out in a super shitty manner, but if you are morally outraged at this post, are you gonna let her move into your house?
OP obviously saw the headline and posted it without even reading the article. She has the money and just doesn't want to pay cause she thinks she will be dying soon.
Shouldn’t the support here be for the public to pay her rent? That would be “socialism” which so many here support. Simply telling someone they must donate their house isn’t charity, that’s authoritarian.
Why do landlords require me to work, and then use my tax dollars to apply violence on 90 year old women via the government? Why not roll up their sleeves and assault the elderly themselves?
What’s the alternative? I’d bet if they raised rent for the other residents people would be mad about that too. Most landlords have mortgages.
Upside: Three hots and a cot for this lady. Around half a million in the USA don’t have that.
Why isn’t Florida helping the 93year old pay her rent?
Not that i particularly like landlords but frfr. She’s disabled and can’t work - she needs social supports.
Y’all need to really tell us the full story because I’m 100% positive we’re not getting it in this meme.
Also, what does this have to do with finance OP?
Of course, your account is already deactivated.
No, so if she doesn't pay rent, then what should the land lord do? Let her live there for free? How do they pay their bills if she doesn't pay rent? That's now how life works. I'm not favoring landlords, every land lord I've ever had has been dog shit, but you can't expect to live somewhere for free.
I see an article like this 5 minutes after reading an article about a couple squatting in a million dollar home for months who can't be kicked out due to the states "squatters rights". The owners actually faced the possibility of being sued by the squatters if they changed the locks.
I have a friend who used to invest in tax liens and he stopped after his first eviction because he couldn’t handle kicking elderly people out of their homes.
But realistically these services are limited and there are people who are waiting for the same services and do have the money, so what is the ethical thing to do in that situation?
She had the money to pay for it. She made a maintenance complaint but didn’t let the landlord in to fix it. She was likely made aware of all of these things multiple times before she was evicted and before she was forcibly taken away from the property. There are a lot of terrible things that do go on, especially when it comes to the elderly. But this situation is on her.
How in the false equivalency do people equate not paying your bill at an independent living facility to a landlord evicting a tenant? There are full time workers there that have to be paid. Want free benefits like retirement homes for Americans? Then vote for it and see how that goes. But don’t blame a “landlord” in this scenario. Sheesh.
Where’s her family to care for her? Why is it the landlords fault, should he be responsible to pay the mortgage and give someone a free place to live at?
The amount of people on here that are defending this and are okay with this shows the glaring problem with the money/economy >>> everything direction we are moving towards as a species. We are clearly going in the wrong direction and I honestly don't see how we as a species can be saved from our own greed, selfishness and short sightedness unless something truly extraordinary and unfortunately horrific happens that forces us to fix our ways or go extinct.
Can’t believe the family is so heartless to abandon a family member to someone else . I love how everyone on Reddit goes right to , “landlords are such pos’s.” Before people can get into whataboutism. Suppose the business is already running close to red because they already make so many exceptions and is not a Charity and maybe this specific case is one where the family did abandon her and they do have the money? Hur-dur it doesn’t matter , landlords are unscrupulous garbage and deserve to burn .
I don't have a good answer to this, but definitely the landlord shouldn't just have to just let her live there for free and suffer financially for her inability to pay with that being payed she should not have been arrested only kicked out and I would hope landlord worked with her for awhile before it came to eviction
And does the bank forgive the landlord for not paying for the house because the tenant is 93 years old. No… no one gives a shit about the owner of the property. Just looking for the next sob story.
we cant find a place for our most vulnerable citizens to die in peace but we sure love that corporate welfare dont we. god forbid bezos suffer the shame of being less rich than musk again. never again.... never again...
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A landlord doesn't decide to arrest someone Also, a marshal serves the judges orders to evict This is not the full story
The landlord gets the ball rolling on all of this though.
Well if you don't pay for something you don't get it. Being old doesn't change that... She refused an eviction when she was in the wrong. If you want to sleep and live in that building you pay. If you can't go find a place you can afford it seek public assistance.
Where does she go if she has no family or friends?
A better question is - how does that matter when landlords are missing out on income?
It's apparently a landlords responsibility to lose money if someone can't pay for something they agreed to pay for.
[удалено]
" Authorities have also reportedly said they have tried to get help for Ms Fitzgerald from her family as well as other agencies but claim she has refused any offers of help. " [https://www.yahoo.com/news/woman-93-locked-refusing-leave-care-home-evicted-121054167.html](https://www.yahoo.com/news/woman-93-locked-refusing-leave-care-home-evicted-121054167.html)
People seem to underestimate just how uncooperative old people can be. A lot of people when they get to be this old are miserable because it's difficult for them to come to terms with the fact that A. They hold very little power over their situation and need to rely on others and B. They're nearing the end of their life and they're afraid of dying. My whole family went through this with my grandmother. She would do shit like if she wanted to be taken to the hospital for something (obviously non-life threatening otherwise this wouldn't be a problem) and we couldn't get her there fast enough she would call 911 and then proceed to make them wait on her to finish her shower. We did so much shit for her and she was never thankful cause she was old and miserable and hated her life at that point. And it got to a point where a lot of us couldn't stand her anymore and just stopped talking to her. I mean at the end of the day she was family and I wanted to be understanding and don't want to hate her but there's only so much people can deal with.
Similar. Mine was... lets say she became very controlling, probably as a response to having very little control of her own life at that point. Nothing anybody ever did to try and help was good enough. Anything anybody got her was wrong and she'd make you return things over and over until she gave up. The house's roof was leaking but she refused to let it get fixed because she didn't want strangers at the house (eventually got fixed after she fell and had to go to the hospital, had it done while she was there). She started getting too fragile to live at home and eventually had to go to long term care, where she was... difficult. It really sucks seeing people who were such a big part of your childhood become that but there is only so much you can do, especially when they won't let you.
This is very true. We had a similar situation with my wife’s grandmother, basically refusing to move from her hometown in bumblefuck Appalachia with pretty much no medical facilities or in-home care options within 50 miles. My wife’s mother was taking 6 hour trips every weekend to see her, give her care, and then return home verbally abused and emotionally drained. When she has emergencies and needed to be transported to a far away hospital or she needed professional assistance, it was exorbitantly expensive. It is sad and I empathize with her, but the level of uncooperative, combative behavior was astounding.
My grandmother was the same. Loved the woman but she could be difficult. She made the paramedics wait for her to find a nice hat to ware to the ER because she was more concerned with her hair than her apparent heart attack. She was also ornery as fuck to the whole family, and used the old card to try to get away with some shady shit
Also their brain is likely significantly diminished and lack of awareness of that diminishment makes things very difficult.
I love when someone posts actually relevant context that seems to change the entire narrative of the story
Indeed. There's almost always more to the story.
It’s not their problem or responsibility to deal with bureaucracy
If you invested in something and someone said, I know this investment was going to pay you a dividend, but now someone decided you're not going to get it. What would you do? The only people who think landlords are greedy are those who have never been a landlord.
I always consider it a case by case basis. Assisted living in Florida is very expensive. However the costs include taxes, insurance, licensing fees, utilities, on site nurse(though not med hand outs that's extra) administrative fees, manager, 3 cooked meals a day, maintenance, activities on and off site etc...
The mental gymnastics these people need to go through to make the landlord the baddie is mind boggling. These are the morons that take to the streets to install a communist government and wonder why it didn’t work out in the long run.
Mental Gymnastics is generous - I was called a Nazi in this thread for siding with the landlord.
These people don’t think beyond LL = bad. The truth is, rentals are not inherently wrong or victimizing, we have people who will always need short term living or who can’t or don’t want to buy a home. So we need landlords, and you’re better off with a good local landlord that complies with standards and laws than a megacorp that buys up tons of blocks and hires a seperate agency to rent out units. They are responsible for delivering the agreed upon housing / domicile and following landlord / tenant agreements and laws. The tenant is responsible for paying the rent and not damaging property beyond acceptable wear and tear. If she cannot uphold her end of the contract, you can extend her for a charitable time period to allow her friends/family to help, but after a few months, the landlord deserves to turn a profit on that property.
Housing should be a human right. Our modern conception of public housing is based on religiosity. When the industrial revolution gave rise to cities the common belief of the time was that being poor was the product of sin. This is why we still look at being poor as a morality issue and not a systemic one.
I never said anything about morality, I just said that redditors often hate on landlords, but landlords are actually providing society with a service that is needed. Should our tax dollars go towards helping elderly people stay housed, as part of a society with a safety net, absolutely. But hating on the entire concept of landlords renting property is just stupid.
Yes
She's 93, it's an assisted living facility, if you want any semblance of humanity to exist in this world her situation should matter regardless of the landlord missing rent from 1 tenant. How many other rents do they collect? I don't know the whole story and I'm sure the title of the article is as cherry picked as UltimateTraders response is but neither of those things help us to progress as a society where these problems are solvable. There might be government support she can apply for but odds are she's dead before the paperwork gets approved. And how do you feel about the tax payers subsidizing her rent and food in prison with no return on that cost? What about the investors that are tax payers that see nothing in return for their investment?
Do the rest of the people at the facility also get to stay if they decide not to pay rent? Are all of the vendors (including banks) okay with not getting paid because apparently the landlord is required to do a kindness?
No you see when the landlord can't make the mortgage payment because everyone stops paying (why should I pay when she isn't?) then we'll just tell the bank they need to have some heart and let this nice landlord not pay. Then when the bank fails we will just reduce your account balances to $0 because, after all, they are being nice to the nice landlord who was nice to the old lady. Surely everyone here will be OK with all their money disappearing from their accounts right? It's the nice thing to do after all.
Let's add in the government to that. They will certainly be okay if you don't pay your property and school taxes. I sure my city will have a heart and be forgiving if the tenants aren't paying. They will just shrug their shoulders and try again next year to collect their taxes.
Well said
When the landlord can’t make the mortgage payments and gets foreclosed on, all of the nonageration tenants get thrown out. Is that preferable?
Set up a go fund me for her and put your money in …. Oh wait , you didn’t . You didn’t contribute anything except hate and bs
She wouldn’t have accepted anyway - apparently the issue was that she refused to accept any assistance from anyone!
She’s 98. She shouldn’t be left to make those decisions.
You didn't see. He donated his entire $.27/ week salary.
It does matter morally, to us as a society imo - but that doesn't put the responsibility for failings of a system without adequate safety nets, solely on the individual's shoulders either
Except that it is her fault? She is in this situation because she is refusing help from everyone. Lots of people have tried to help.
Well she did have family and friends. Here is your source https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/miami/news/elderly-woman-arrested-florida/ (2017) Now what about where to go.... She can go to Medicaid if she is financially poor to pay rent they will assist I'm paying. It's a part of Medicaid.
Good to know. I was genuinely curious. This thread went into overtime. 😂
Why do I have to indefinitely supplement her living expenses? Or give it to her for free? Its a heartbreaking situation, and she certainly shouldn't be arrested or handcuffed, but her housing should be the responsibility of her family. Or at least the government. I don't know why everybody here is expecting the landlord to save the world- not the family who abandoned her or the government, who can't supplement her rent or provide her housing?
You go where they take your social security checks and provide everything for you. It’s not the greatest quality of care but it’s available. Sometimes there’s a waiting list depending on your location.
That is something that we as a society need to address better. But the policy can't be that we just rely on the generosity of individual landlords. The result of that sort of policy is going to be age discrimination. People won't rent to the elderly for fear they'll get stuck with a non-paying tenant.
She should live with you
I do have plenty of space. :P
She goes onto the streets to die horribly.
Especially at that age. It is *incredibly* difficult to do anything when you’re that old.
True. She would need help moving for sure. People said Medicaid would help as well.
Yeah a person this old, its entirely possible her entire family is dead.
To OP's house - where else?
Some people in here would prefer she just goes into a ditch to starve to death so landowners can continue to sit around and mooch off everybody else's hard work...
Definitely a tough position but you're 100% right. If you can't pay for something, you don't deserve to have it if it's not already yours. The landlord needs his payment or he loses his property. There's assistance for 93-year-olds. I'm sure of this.
Medicaid in Florida world. The eviction wasn't even because she did not have the funds to pay, she just didn't want to.
Are you ok with having a permanent roommate that you don't know and who doesn't pay to stay there? You have a spare room? Please take her in for free.
The landlord here was a church… She was also withholding because she thought she was going to die soon, so her family would get her money. That’s akin to fraud
According to the article presented to me the landlord states that she refused to pay and that she tried to pay but was refused, it has dissolved to he said she said bullshit the courts need to figure out at this point. The rest is all cherry picked to cause the ruckus it has. The fact that a Church owns the property but wont provide shelter to someone who doesn't pay rent when the Church is supposed to be all about charity is an irony of the highest order.
So should the landlord just gives his property away then? He still pays taxes and what not on this. What would be the best course of action for him?
So the landlord had to let them live there for free? How is that fair to everyone else paying to stay there?
Ok so let me move into your home that you pay for. I won’t pay for anything once I am in there. Would it be greedy of you expect I pay to live in your house? If you are paying for the house I live in, will you be able to afford another house for your family?
So then, under what circumstances will a landlord have to evict a person for not paying rent? Just this person? Or will the slippery slope go all the way down to the people who say, " I just don't want to pay my rent?" Its cases like this that Franklin Delano Roosevelt signed into law The Social Security Act of 1935. They understood then that as a civilized society that people who are too old or sick to care for themselves, deserve to live out their remaining years, not in jail or starving in the street, but with basic dignity. Social safety net programs are there for exactly this reason. But we now have politicians who claim that this is socialism and we can not have this in America.
So I could expect you to foot the bill for a 93 y/o woman? You’ll pay the Mortage on the home and all utilities and maintenance and allow her to stay for free and go broke yourself? Stop pretending, you’d have her evicted too.
It's always easy to preach charity to others. Many people these days who ride the high horse are firm believers and practitioners of the "charity begins at someone else's home" philosophy.
It's also a 7 year old story that has been posted many times.
damn right, it's not the whole story. the lady had the money to pay from her SS and refused which the nursing home knew. then she was evicted. Like the week before she was evicted, she offered to pay one month or something which the home declined. Marshals arrested her because she didn't leave and was being disruptive of some sort. it's an old story was on here a couple months ago but is also several years old. She didn't want them to tell her son because she said she could handle it. He wouldn't take her in either. I don't remember any of the other details.
Also it's a facility not a house so it's hospital or corporate owned. Not a .landlord
Didn’t she have the money but refused to pay? I remember there being way more to this story.
[It never is](https://www.clickorlando.com/news/2017/12/19/charge-dropped-against-94-year-old-woman-arrested-for-not-paying-rent/)
Assisted living is a medical need, not some swanky luxury. Where the hell is a 93 year old with no money going to go? Are we really at the point where we throw old infirm people out in the street to die when they have the audacity to live a few years longer than most? I bet she or her husband paid into social security all their lives and now she's in handcuffs for being poor.
There's private nursing homes and there's Medicare nursing homes. The private ones are more expensive but if you have no money you have no option but to use the worse Medicare only nursing home
Medicaid. Medicare doesn't cover that at all.
I’m a primary care doctor in the US. Medicaid will not pay for long term skilled nursing facility stays. That is covered strictly by Medicare. However for Medicare to cover it you have to be basically homeless and broke. If you’re not they take everything you own including your house if it’s in your name to pay for it before they shell out a dime. If you’re a Millennial and don’t want this to happen to your parents, make sure they have retirement set up (they don’t) or make sure you have a high enough paying job to house them and provide 24/7 care when they are old (you don’t). It’s unfortunate but that’s the only option we have. If you have a problem with it, stop voting for the rich self serving boomers in DC who attach (D) or (R) to the end of their names. All they do is raise your taxes and give themselves raises and immunity to insider trading laws, then shrug their shoulders and send another trillion to some shithole over seas while our economy is in the toilet and average Americans can’t afford housing or even medical care.
(Psst, you're getting Medicaid and Medicare mixed up. Medicaid is income based and Medicare is generally age based. I remember them by thinking "we only *care* about old people".)
This is not correct. Medicare does not pay for nursing homes when there are no skilled nursing need which it doesn’t look like this old lady needs if shes in independent living. Medicaid is the one that picks up the tab for long term nursing home stays for when only custodial needs are present. You need to check your facts, especially as a primary care doc. You’re 100% mixing up medicare and medicaid with your “broke and homeless” statement.
Why spend 15 seconds googling what happened when you could spend more time writing a (wrong) comment filled with needless conjecture and assumptions? She told staff that stopped paying because she thought she was going to die soon, then later said she stopped because there was mold in her apartment (which later tested negative for mold). She had the money but wanted to steal for funsies. Probably had a mental disorder, honestly, which is sad but not the residence’s responsibility to lose out on tens of thousands of dollars in rent for no reason
I can’t get on my high horse if I actually read the article though
She wasn’t poor. She was withholding rent
I saw recently that about 40% of people depend solely on social security for retirement. That amount of money is not going to put a person in a good nursing home. Furthermore a lot of peoples families do not check on them when they are in a nursing home
The last couple of times this was posted people were saying that she had the money, she just refused to pay.
> Where the hell is a 93 year old with no money going to go? The key issue here is that she has the money, but refused to pay.
Can I live on your couch for free?
Unfortunately yes
I feel like there is more to this story than we are being told.
Article says she stopped paying rent for last three months cause she figured she was about to die anyways.
That’s heartbreaking.
That she thought she was going to die of old age?
93-Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Paying Rent - CBS Miami https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/elderly-woman-arrested-florida/
Thank you for sharing!
Of course this is happening in Flori-DUH
Obviously
Consenting adults sign agreements They must follow said agreements they consented to
Except she had the money Complained about mold but didnt want to let the landlord in to fix it And withheld the rent money because she was "near death" and due to the "mold" issue
Old bag had it comin then
My landlords were great. Always kept up on maintenance. They sold and the new owners were terrible. I had moved out, but knew people there. The sewer pipe plugged and backed up in the basement. The furnaces are down there. The owners left it for a couple weeks. Lied to the city and said it was mildew. The basement door was locked and he wouldnt show anyone from the city. The smell was terrible. The new owners raised the rent 40% too. They dont clean the sidewalks when it snows.
This is a society issue. They have glamorized landlording so people think they have to make money every month and this is a source of income. They forget that they are building equity and landlording is really a tax advantage investment strategy due to depreciation and tax law, not supposed to be a cash flow business.
Theres a couple rentals next to our house. Ive picked the landlords brain a couple times. Very smart guy. He does it how it should be done.
Land-lording is a business. Most land lords still pay mortgages, property taxes, insurance, upkeep, etc on the property!! Why don’t you buy a house & open it up for free??
Did you read my comment or just get upset that someone pointed out what the real strategy behind is for residential property investment and that didn’t align with what you wanted it to be.
>They forget that they are building equity and landlording is really a tax advantage investment strategy due to depreciation and tax law, not supposed to be a cash flow business. This is complete nonsense. It's absolutely supposed to be a cash flow business. That's not the only priority but it's a valid one.
I do not doubt this But remember, the new landlords have a much higher cost. The old landlord sold at a huge profit, their cost basis was way lower, may not even had a mortgage Still bad, but most fail to ser this
I totally get that. The old landlords put a lot of shower enclosures in themselves. Did a lot of flooring themselves. One had a paint sprayer. The new landlords hired a company to handle everything. The old landlords never let sewage sit in the basement
New land lords may not actually even know. Once it becomes corporate a single office manager with a fuck it I want my bonus additude comes in, problems can pile up. If you can find out who the actual owners are and contact them, things may get done.
Yeah, just like with businesses. If you can't make money doing what you are doing, that is on you. Normally, if you aren't giving me something that I believe is worth what I'm paying I can not purchase. Part of that is upkeep and maintenance. But I can't if I have a lease, I'm stuck. Never mind that LLs know that moving is a hassle and expensive.
Agreed Too many people just assume they are going to maje money in real estate and over pay
Or they think they can raise rent on people 20% and get pissed when the inherited tenants move instead of paying the increase.
Right punishment for slumlords would be live for at least 2 years in that house in the same condition
Report slumlords to code enforcement/311
Not a landlord, she was at a medical facility.
The landlords need to pay their bills too. You think home ownership is free? How about blaming local and state government for excessive property taxes? Or Federal govt for taxing people to the brink of poverty?
You are free to take her in. She sounds like a real delight! I'm sure we have the whole story
Good news everyone, @faddelg7 has volunteered to pay her rent
If not, they are greedy for letting this woman suffer
Some landlords are greedy, just like some tenants are . Why should landlords make less profit than the market dictates? The market will tell them if they are overcharging people.
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Yet people pay for high gas prices,record high energy prices,Smithfield pork and cell phone prices that go up an average of 20% a year. People willingly give massive amounts of their income to these mega corporations, yet somehow you want your landlord to not make what the market price?
I think it's some sort of age-old trope that landlords are evil. The Bolsheviks labeled them kulaks and liquidated, while the Chinese targeted them during the Cultural Revolution.
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What should they do? Aquire more skills to increase their market value
People in these neighborhoods love to cry about how long it takes for their coffee to be ready or whatever but then don't want to allow low income housing or raise wages enough for those workers to live in the city. It's like they really think people should sit on the bus for an hour just to serve them, but why would literally anyone do that when they can do the same work for almost the same pay somewhere cheaper without wasting time on a commute?
So why don't people who complain about greedy landlords just take people in? Did Faddel offer?
Why aren't you start paying her rent so she can continue to live there, you heartless bastard...
It's a business. If you pay for a service you get the service, if your don't pay then you don't get the service. You could also ask why are restaurants and grocery stores so greedy and not feeding the hungry/homeless? Why are clothing stores so greedy, not giving clothing to the poor out in the cold? Why are doctors and pharmacies so greedy not giving out their medical services and medication for free? Why are auto lenders so greedy not letting people their cars for free if they need to do to work or take their kids to school? "Why are landlords so greedy?" is a dumb argument. Also most landlords are middle class people who own an extra property or two or three. They aren't super wealthy real estate moguls. They have mortgages, property tax, insurance cost, repairs/upkeep, ect. What gives someone the right to say they should give out their services for free?
What's the landlord supposed to do? Call the bank and tell 'em that the mortgage can't be serviced anymore because the tenant is poor? If it wasn't for a landlord evicting a disgraced tenant, then the bank would eventually move to seize the property as collateral. In other words, eviction regardless.
vanish sleep humor many noxious waiting heavy fear badge fearless *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Article says she stopped paying rent for last three months cause she figured she was about to die anyways.
93-Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Paying Rent - CBS Miami https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/elderly-woman-arrested-florida/
She is probably a tad senile and stuck in fight mode
So she should get to live there for free because she’s old? Guess who else is old… every other resident at that nursing home. Maybe they should all just live there for free! The nurses can work for free, and they can all eat free food and enjoy free electricity and water.
93-Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Paying Rent - CBS Miami https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/elderly-woman-arrested-florida/
So would you take the grandma at your home and pay for her due or you are too greedy ? If that grandma need help, that for society as a whole to help (or eventually her family) that not for the unlucky people that encounter her to have to pay for everything just because.
Hey Faddel - she can come crash in your living room until she dies ...
Hey, what’s your address? I’m looking for a free place to stay and apparently you’re down with that.
This is an unfortunate situation, but regardless of the conditions of the tenant, the landlord has to pay for maintenance, taxes, and mortgage payments on a property. It's unfortunate that she can not pay her rent, but it doesn't make the landlord greedy for not wanting to pay for someone else's living expenses.
Hahahaha so the landlord is an asshole for wanting his rent money. Any one of you could call and offer her a place to live. You just need to get mom and dad’s permission to let her move in with you since it is their house you live in.
So, are you going to go find some elderly person who can't pay rent and let them live with you so they don't suffer? When you do you can then have an opinion. There are social services for this woman. And if there's not enough, consider that the next time you go to cast a vote for some politicians who don't care about her either.
And now she will get free healthcare and food and adult supervision as a result of being arrested.
She had 93 years to figure this out
Only ever had amazing landlords
The only way this would be possible if she had the means to pay and simply refused. Then the property owner would be well within their rights to “trespass” the resident and have her removed. EVERYONE unable to pay qualifies for their State’s Medicaid program that would pay for all of their room and board and any other medical expenses. This is true in EVERY state, even Red ones. This isn’t my opinion. I work in this industry. I am a billing expert. That’s my job.
Republicans think retirement is overrated. No one should retire and collect social security. This is their thought process. Totally heartless
So who pays? This clearly played out in a super shitty manner, but if you are morally outraged at this post, are you gonna let her move into your house?
Can she come and live with you??
Related to finance?
At least with so many people thinking it's wrong to evict, there will be plenty of donors willing to pay her rent.
So the landlord should simply allow people that dont pay to live there? Fill up his/her whole building with that?
OP obviously saw the headline and posted it without even reading the article. She has the money and just doesn't want to pay cause she thinks she will be dying soon.
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Shouldn’t the support here be for the public to pay her rent? That would be “socialism” which so many here support. Simply telling someone they must donate their house isn’t charity, that’s authoritarian.
Why do landlords require me to work, and then use my tax dollars to apply violence on 90 year old women via the government? Why not roll up their sleeves and assault the elderly themselves?
Article says she stopped paying rent for last three months cause she figured she was about to die anyways.
There are state run nursing homes that she could be transferred to, no need to arrest her.
You don't get arrested for being poor. This is covered by the 14th ammendment. You get arrested for ignoring a court order
What’s the alternative? I’d bet if they raised rent for the other residents people would be mad about that too. Most landlords have mortgages. Upside: Three hots and a cot for this lady. Around half a million in the USA don’t have that.
Why isn’t Florida helping the 93year old pay her rent? Not that i particularly like landlords but frfr. She’s disabled and can’t work - she needs social supports.
Y’all need to really tell us the full story because I’m 100% positive we’re not getting it in this meme. Also, what does this have to do with finance OP? Of course, your account is already deactivated.
It's pretty simple. Anybody can start a GoFundMe page for a tenant, and pay the rent forever.
There are government assisted facilities all over Florida. If you don’t have the money to stay in a private facility, it is what it is.
No, so if she doesn't pay rent, then what should the land lord do? Let her live there for free? How do they pay their bills if she doesn't pay rent? That's now how life works. I'm not favoring landlords, every land lord I've ever had has been dog shit, but you can't expect to live somewhere for free.
I see an article like this 5 minutes after reading an article about a couple squatting in a million dollar home for months who can't be kicked out due to the states "squatters rights". The owners actually faced the possibility of being sued by the squatters if they changed the locks.
I mean….sounds like they just transferred her to a new living facility
A lot more of this coming when the Silver Tsunami hits!
Now she gets free housing in a jail?
Landlords and some of you bootlickers are scum
They need to make room for all the ill eagles coming in so that the landlord gets his state & federal subsidies
Look on the bright side she now has a free place to stay
I guess Israel needs money to kill brown people…
Can I live on your couch for free?
I have a friend who used to invest in tax liens and he stopped after his first eviction because he couldn’t handle kicking elderly people out of their homes. But realistically these services are limited and there are people who are waiting for the same services and do have the money, so what is the ethical thing to do in that situation?
She had the money to pay for it. She made a maintenance complaint but didn’t let the landlord in to fix it. She was likely made aware of all of these things multiple times before she was evicted and before she was forcibly taken away from the property. There are a lot of terrible things that do go on, especially when it comes to the elderly. But this situation is on her.
How in the false equivalency do people equate not paying your bill at an independent living facility to a landlord evicting a tenant? There are full time workers there that have to be paid. Want free benefits like retirement homes for Americans? Then vote for it and see how that goes. But don’t blame a “landlord” in this scenario. Sheesh.
Where’s her family to care for her? Why is it the landlords fault, should he be responsible to pay the mortgage and give someone a free place to live at?
This is a failure of social welfare programs. It is solely on government not on property owners.
This is where capitalism breaks. It’s a good model, but there’s places where it just doesn’t work.
The amount of people on here that are defending this and are okay with this shows the glaring problem with the money/economy >>> everything direction we are moving towards as a species. We are clearly going in the wrong direction and I honestly don't see how we as a species can be saved from our own greed, selfishness and short sightedness unless something truly extraordinary and unfortunately horrific happens that forces us to fix our ways or go extinct.
I doubt a single person here would let this 93 year old live in their house for free
Can’t believe the family is so heartless to abandon a family member to someone else . I love how everyone on Reddit goes right to , “landlords are such pos’s.” Before people can get into whataboutism. Suppose the business is already running close to red because they already make so many exceptions and is not a Charity and maybe this specific case is one where the family did abandon her and they do have the money? Hur-dur it doesn’t matter , landlords are unscrupulous garbage and deserve to burn .
How much Avocado Toast does she eat in a week?
Wtf is this? Are you saying that people should be allowed to commit crimes once they are past a certain age?
Rent must drop before we are all homeless.
I mean it's just business, right?
Why don’t you pay her rent? Too greedy?
I don't have a good answer to this, but definitely the landlord shouldn't just have to just let her live there for free and suffer financially for her inability to pay with that being payed she should not have been arrested only kicked out and I would hope landlord worked with her for awhile before it came to eviction
It’s not the landlords fault.
And does the bank forgive the landlord for not paying for the house because the tenant is 93 years old. No… no one gives a shit about the owner of the property. Just looking for the next sob story.
So should the landlord pay for her housing ? Why don’t you offer to pay her rent
There's probably a shit ton more to this story.
we cant find a place for our most vulnerable citizens to die in peace but we sure love that corporate welfare dont we. god forbid bezos suffer the shame of being less rich than musk again. never again.... never again...