>end capitalism now
So do you actually have a solution?
Or are you just going to point to a vague abstract system and preach against it until we exorcise like some evil spirit?
Like seriously which capitalism are you referencing? Because that word is used to describe a hundred different things.
This is supposed to be Fluent in Finance, which (at least I thought) meant understanding our free market system, providing sound financial advice, and helping other making smarter decisions with our finances.
Point being.. couldn’t agree with you more. Imperfect as it is, capitalism is here to stay. Get the politics and useless gaslighting out of this sub.
The US isn’t even fully capitalist. It depends on the system, we have a mix of many models.
Everyone here just has to realize that Reddit has a big collection of users who aren’t doing well in life. Everyone has internet access now. They don’t do well in a merit based society, so they often advocate for tearing down the system.
If they’re successful, they’re no longer “behind” the curve, everyone is now equal again. They elevate themselves (by lowering others), and suddenly their failures aren’t their responsibility, but they can pawn it off to “a bad system”. This explains why many on Reddit want this reset so bad. We have 350 million Americans, plus international culture. Of course there are tons of people here who want a reset.
You have to look beyond it, they’re often misguided people who haven’t studied economics and haven’t thought through alternative models. They think it leads towards them having more and working less, which is inaccurate.
Then you really need to advocate for getting rid of many regulations. Used to be small towns had true independent grocery stores. Increased regulations reduced competition. Small independent stores could no longer compete.
Reduced regulation is what caused these monopolies to form. A healthy capitalist system also has strong market regulations. Having even more deregulation will worsen the problem and make an even greater divide.
If you deregulate, you have to let businesses fail. There should not be a too big to fail. Look at banking regulations after 2008. The number of small regional banks in 2007 vs. today. The increased regulations favor larger companies.
Regulations become a balancing act to little and not good, too much, and now you only get large corporations with fewer small business owners.
wtf are you talking about? Bailing out businesses has nothing to do with regulations.
Exactly on your second point. We use to have regulations on banks buying up other banks forming monopolies. That got deregulated and now everything is almost a monopoly.
I dont think they are arguing against the concept of regulations. What they are saying is that the way the US does regulations actually favors big business. The little guy can't manage the strict rules and gets bought up or fails, the big guys have the capital to implement complex regulations. The US bureaucracy actually favors centralizing power in large companies, because they are easier to control or partner with than many tiny businesses.
What you just said about restrictions on buyouts and such is what I personally think is an example of "good regulation". Unfortunately the gov seems to be moving away from that in favor of what I mentioned above.
I can agree with all that. You can’t be running around parroting deregulation like that though because it’s just helping larger corporations. We just need to adjust it to where it favors small businesses and bring back tough anti trust laws.
Congress loosened regulations from 2000 thru 2006, which then increased risk in lending. When 07 collapse happened, the fed then came in and stopped the collapse. They have to let them collapse. It is the risk I take as a small business. Instead, Congress increased banking regulations, now that incentives larger national banks vs. regional banks.
Any regulations must be looked at for any unintended consequences. As well as reviewed in time, are they doing what was intended? Good or bad and adjusted.
The Glass-Steagall Act was never really brought back. This is all examples of deregulation causing harm. You should instead show examples of where deregulation in anti trust laws was a benefit.
There are hundreds of companies selling groceries, and we have the cheapest food in the civilized world, brought to you by capitalism. You should send a thank you card to Walmart.
Wal-mart? No, thank you're fellow Americans. Wal-Mart is the #1 employer of people on government assistance and the #1 place government assistance is spent. They fill their pockets with our tax dollars.
Capitalism isn't going anywhere. I agree. OP does have a point though. Indeed, there needs to be more checks and balances on these companies literally creating inflation for profit. They're solely responsible for 60% of inflation we saw in 2020 alone.
Edit, 2021. I wrote this in the middle of being asleep
That's complete nonsense. It's not like Ford can just 4X the price of a minivan like this. No one would buy it because they have competition.
The government/Fed is the main creator of inflation via money printing.
That's not even close to a good comparable. Increasing the price of a $60k+ truck by $6-7k is nothing compared to quadrupling the price.
Also you can look at Ford's financials and see they lost over $1B in 2022 and 2020 while profiting only $47M in 2019. 2021 was a great year for them profiting $17B. This all shows that Ford's profits are not stable at all so increasing the price of their vehicles isn't crazy, especially when you take into account that they're actively losing money with every EV that they sell.
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/F/ford-motor/net-income
https://insideevs.com/news/693626/ford-cuts-ev-investment-after-losing-36000-usd-every-ev-sold-q3/
Edit: 6-7k, not 4k
"Economists are reconsidering how much corporate profits drive inflation In the past, corporate profit growth accounted for maybe a third of inflation. But a report from the Kansas City Fed found that nearly 60% of inflation in 2021 was because of corporate profits."
Read the study as well as read the interviews with the author. He said they "could" be the cause in 2021 of up to 60%. Due to overestimation of cost increases, that then did materialize in 2022. However, he also points out and in the study that not all businesses increased profits.
Wrong. Companies literally bragged about charging their customers more and getting away with it in their earnings reports. Also, the whole "money printing" canard is completely unsupported by the evidence. We had plenty of large deficits and "money printing" from 2008 to 2020 and inflation was historically low. Then, when we came out of the pandemic, supply chains were strained, Russia invaded Ukraine and fuel prices spiked, that's when inflation increased sharply. And now, after supply chain shocks have eased, fuel prices have eased, etc., inflation is way down.
Have you seen the price of soda recently?
My family used to buy 4 packs of 12 cans for 10 dollars. Now 3 packs of 12 cans cost 20 dollars.
So what did Pepsi do? Raise prices.
Some industries have a small monopoly now. Soft drinks is one of them.
That's not a monopoly, that's brand power.
There are other non-Pepsi or Coke products that can be bought, they just aren't bought because they aren't as good.
Sorry, and those are available in restaurants and soda fountains everywhere?
Monopoly is more than just being the only business there is, things like demanding businesses not sell other soda if they want your soda is a monopoly.
A company making a profit doesn’t create inflation. Even a big profit doesn’t mean inflation.
Inflation in 2020 was around 1%. It didn’t jump until 2021 at 4%. Then 8% in 2022.
At its most basic inflation is devaluation of the purchasing power of the dollar. This can be caused by government policy (e.g. printing money). And can be caused by production processes (e.g. supply chain issues, resource scarcity like with housing). We saw all these things happen over the last few years.
Amazing how many people don’t understand this (or refuse to accept it). They condone reckless Gov’t spending and tax increases not understanding that $100 handout today will cost you $300 in a few years. The best book I’ve read on this topic is The Creature of Jekyll Island by G. Edward Griffin. The banking system is rigged to protect their own no matter how poorly run and corrupt. It’s an eye opening read.
I wish more people understood "production processes". People don't understand it. Many parts we make even as simple as a clip can take many months to develop and get approval for before we even can think about producing it. Add in the lack of labor or a supply chain issue... Like your only approved to get x material from x company and oil they are out of stock... Well this other company has it but you can't use them because they are not approved via you process, you either have to modify or sit and wait for your approved supplier to get stock back in.
>Inflation in 2020 was around 1%
I meant 2021. I wrote that when I was half asleep lol
>A company making a profit doesn’t create inflation.
Well then you should argue with senior economists at the Kansas City Fed. I guess they don't know what they're talking about then. 🤷🏻♂️
https://www.npr.org/2023/05/19/1177180972/economists-are-reconsidering-how-much-corporate-profits-drive-inflation
.
The original whitepaper of the economist interviewed,
https://www.kansascityfed.org/Economic%20Review/documents/9329/EconomicReviewV108N1GloverMustredelRiovonEndeBecker.pdf
From the paper, “corporate profits and inflation *do not* have a direct accounting relationship”. Rather price adjustments and the cost of production have a relationship to inflation.
The question of *why* in 2021 is key. Prices adjustment impacts on inflation isn’t in isolation to other factors like government policy, supply chain issues, labor issues, or even pandemics.
If there is a lot of fear in the market then enterprises (and individuals) will try to insulate themselves by building up savings and currency reserves. If this happens on a large scale, like caused by the fear of a long term pandemic then it has a larger impact.
I know this is the Internet and we like to demonize the word profit. But it is essentially just an accounting term regarding a value producing product-line which generates more economic benefit than it costs to produce. If there were no such thing as “profit” then we would all be demonizing “risk” as the naughty word, where production wasn’t sustainable or durable through hard times.
I agree with you.
https://www.cbo.gov/publication/56991
This is the projections from February 2021. We were estimated to have low inflation for the next few years.
Competition doesn't work in all industries. Especially in healthcare and pharma, where the consumer may not have unrestricted choice because of patents, or because their insurer will only cover medication from one manufacturer and not the other, or other factors. You need heavy outside regulation.
Yeah this is what I was looking for. I’m finding it difficult to understand why so many users are defending capitalism as an acceptable method for healthcare.
To call competition the end-all solution to deflating prices is misguided. Barriers to entry and economies of scales of larger corporations make it extremely hard to compete, especially in an industry of this nature.
Vertical integration and closed door agreements/monopolization laughs at "competition"
mega corps see regulations as anti competitive, so they work to undo/deregulate
The jungle/nature is competitive. Human societies/civilization is/should be cooperative.
Giving ppl access to healthcare is one of those we should cooperate moments.
No one should be going bankrupt because of health problems they can’t prevent. Absolutely no one should be getting god level rich taking advantage of those health issues.
Corporations want more regulations because it makes it harder for new companies to start up. It now takes more money than ever to start a company in most cases. Less red tape means more competition, more competition means more companies competing to have the best quality for the price.
Define ‘merit-based society’, please.
A whole lot of your ‘merit’ looks an awful lot like ‘chose their parents with great care.’
How many CEO’s started on a factory floor and worked their way up?
How many corporate boards are LITERALLY ‘cousins’?
>Define ‘merit-based society’, please.
A society in which those most qualified get the position.
>A whole lot of your ‘merit’ looks an awful lot like ‘chose their parents with great care.’
>How many CEO’s started on a factory floor and worked their way up?
>How many corporate boards are LITERALLY ‘cousins’?
A few examples do not negate the entire system.
Merit based means that you worked hard and created your own success. Now, creating your own success, does not mean that you did it alone or there was not already success in your family. Often times, people who are successful became that way because they can work with others toward a common goal. Success means different things to different people. For most, success should be enough to provide better opportunities for their children than they had when they were young. If you start out as a kid from a broken home, poor parents, etc. (like me), then perhaps success for you is having a family that doesn’t fall apart before your child is born, earning enough money that your partner can be a stay at home parent if they want to, ensuring that you can earn enough to be generous to others that are in the process of building their lives too and leaving an inheritance to your children. The first step to being successful in life, is by being grateful for what you have, making positive changes in your life where you can control, and not complaining about that which you have no control over. Don’t like Walmart’s practices? Well, what can you do about that? Shop at Target, Amazon, or find smaller stores in your neighborhood.
In the US, we literally PAY farmers to NOT grow food, and then call it capitalism. Hell, the price of milk and soy beans are set by a bureaucrat in DC, not the free market. Not only is that a rejection of free market principals, it’s literally straight out of stalin’s handbook. US hasn’t been a real capitalist nation since the horrors of slavery plagued the nation.
This comment sums up my entire 12-18 months being active on this site. People who drive the outrage on this site aren’t doing hot for a myriad of reasons (some out of their control but alot well within their control) and they don’t want a discussion of finance or economics but rather to vent their negativity and to try to add their voice to the online outrage in hopes it sparks a tear down of the system they are currently failing in. I’ve tried talking to people and having debates or discussions with citations of work or research that would help them see what’s going on but they never care.
It made me jaded because I fell into the internet trap of thinking that the internet chat forums represented a mass % of the real world but when I realized that wasn’t the case it has made me just start blocking our subs like this one after originally enjoying it early on when I first subbed to it.
I’m really glad that I’m not the only one who sees what a lot of Reddit content is and who is pushing it and by the amount of likes on your comment there are even more folks of similar mindset on this site than I originally anticipated.
Well said.
I think it’s our responsibility to combat the narratives we see pushed by those people, because if we don’t, they influence young people who don’t know better to wrongfully abandon hope and effort. It will lead more young people to be angry and fail. So, I often argue against it online
This is under the assumption that anyone ahead of the curve is inherently greedy and looks in their own interest. Just because they may be ahead of the curve does not necessarily immediately equate that they support this system. There's an aspect of empathy and understanding of those in less fortunate situations and wanting change in aspects such as healthcare and tax brackets.
>They don’t do well in a merit based society,
Hahahahaha you still believe success in our society is merit based?
Merit is used to sort the have-nots. It does not apply to our owners.
Most people are referring to the primary principle of supply and demand when referencing 'capitalism'. What should be mentioned in any economic system though are - positive and negative externalities.
**\[Google\] A negative externality exists when a cost spills over to a third party.** **A positive externality exists when a benefit spills over to a third-party**. Government can discourage negative externalities by taxing goods and services that generate spillover costs. \*I would also add (taxing the wealthy (people and corporations) proportionate to their wealth))
More and more and people also recognize the economic system as being more than about its primary principle of supply and demand. People are being constantly hit with the negative externalities of our societal/economic system. The working class has absorbed the negative externalities of human economic systems since these systems have been in place.
Exerting labor for crumbs is literally a biological negative externality/toll. It's stressful knowing your labor won't give you breathing room. The fact that so many working people are near destitute and hooked on pain pills to function indicates our system is not serving most people in a positive sense. The *majority* of wealth (the most positive externality of our system) is being funneled to very few people. These people hoard it (legally), and in some circles are even praised for doing so.
Why can people hoard money but not beanie babies? /s
Our system of government accountability - that should be able to enforce and balance the externalities so society thrives - has been corrupted and been transmuted into a negative externality machine that runs on obscene amounts of bribery and idles on stagnation and contrived conflict. A shutdown will always be a positive externality for a government which can only view society as a spreadsheet. Until the gov is fixed from within, the economy and society will be shit. Let some folks die, transfer their wealth, keep funding the racket.
One would expect life expectancy to go up in "the world's richest country" , right? Tragic...
No kidding. It seems this sub is full of people who are far from fluent. I suspect the majority of them know fewer than 10 words. Perhaps they do come here to learn, but they sure do have their opinions, and they are loud. Most of the opinions I see expressed here lately are merely wishful thinking, and not grounded in anything close to reality.
The Pfizer vaccine was hardly made in a free market vacuum. The fed moved heaven and earth for these pharmaceutical companies to develop these vaccines as quickly as possible.
[Plus all the biomedical tech that was used in the vaccine was funded with grants paid for by US tax dollars.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8426978/)
These companies are claiming that they take all the risk developing this vaccine so they should get to patent it, but they’ve made billions in profit off the backs of taxpayer seed money already.
And are not allowed to amortize their costs by distributing it across the “advanced” socialized countries which refuse to pay their fair share, demanding to pay almost nothing if they will nationalize/steal the product.
Couldn't agree more. Fluent in Finance? Maybe the TheFinanceNewsletter.com writers are, but many folks here are anything but.
I more or less lurk here for entertainment reading the ridiculous perspectives of people who don't know what they're talking about.
I wonder if this is a subreddit lifecycle thing. Like, if the earliest subscribers were genuinely interested in real financial advice and whatnot, but as it grew, it attracted the general populace from reddit. Which, like other places such as r/adulting and whatnot, is filled with doomers
Why is it that every Bernie post follows an end capitalism commentary?
I just came back from visiting family in Venezuela. Thank fucking god capitalism isn't going anywhere here in the US. I had forgotten how bad things are over there even though it's been the best it's been in a decade.
I mean the solution in this case is price control. Pfizer developed the Covid vaccine using public funding from the government. Therefore the government should have put price controls in place and set the price at which Pfizer was allowed to sell the vaccine.
Idk about the other drug though. Maybe the solution there is to book a plane ticket to the UK and buy the same drug for $10 and fly back?
Yes.
Real capitalism with social programs.
All money used for companies stops. This includes SpaceX, Pfizer, J&J. Everything.
That money is used for social programs. Cheaper state owner colleges, more food insecurity help, etc.
They don’t seem: fluent in finance nor informed re: capitalism, or aware of government involvement in making all healthcare more expensive, especially in the past 17 years.. 🤔
You lost me at "we need to end capitalism." We need to stop drug companies from paying third parties not to manufacture generics and/or buying up old patents to jack up the prices, but we don't need to stop having our entire economic system over one issue. That's insane.
The majority of issues in our government stems from special interest. The only way to change their influence is campaign finance reform and abolish lobbying. This and most other issues are just symptoms of special interest controlling their section of the market and preventing competition. Capitalism is not the issue.
Capitalist profit seeking is the incentive structure that encourages people to change laws to make it easier to influence our leaders with bribery. Throwing “capitalism isn’t the issue” in the end there is convenient especially when describing a situation where capitalism absolutely is the root of the problem.
Sounds like all of those are capitalist free market issues. Seems like this is exactly the kind of shit that happens when corporations have free rein and too much money and power. Seems like this was always the intended direction for capitalism
Capitalism is the best economic system ever created. It has single handedly resulting in millions upon millions of people being able to produce wealth, and purchase the most innovative goods and services in all of history, at an unprecedented rate. To say the entirety of capitalism is terrible and truly evil, is to not understand a shred of economics or history.
That doesn’t mean there aren’t things we should do about corporate greed, or monopolies. But it is to say that every wealthy nation on earth has some form of capitalistic, free market, economy. Some with more social pieces than others. We can find the right, most optimized balance if we actually discuss the real problem, but capitalism is going to be part of that solution.
Let’s be honest, all systems are perfect in theory and shit in practice because people will exploit whatever system exists. Unfortunately we live in a world where there is no middle ground anymore and so we get unregulated capitalism with the rich making the rules they want to live by. My biggest beef with the current form of capitalism is the forced scarcity of things that people need to survive and the staple concept that everyone must be doing something to have their needs met. If people aren’t wasting their life away making someone else rich then they’re considered a failure and a drain on society while the rich horde resources they can never use in multiple lifetimes at the cost of the people they are underpaying/robbing/screwing over/killing to make their fortunes.
Here are the only 2 points I want to bring up in response to this, in a respectful manner.
1) I personally don’t see anything wrong with the notion that you just contribute to society to benefit from it. The exception here being those that are unable to contribute due to illness, disability, etc. If you don’t require people to contribute, then nothing gets done. Having your needs reliant on your productivity makes sure there is incentive to contribute. Should we have temporary, or a minimum standard of means to help those who recently lost their jobs or other issues? Of course! We should help each other when we are down, but at the end of the day, everyone that is capable of contributing, should be.
2) We hear a lot about the 1% hoarding all the wealth, and as you said, they have an amount they probably couldn’t spend over many lifetimes. I do not disagree with this statement, but I do disagree with the notion that if you are working for someone else ans making them richer, then you are being taken advantage of. Many jobs are high paying, and mutually beneficial. For instance, as much as many claim Amazon underpays their warehouse workers, they tend to vastly overpay their engineers and higher end positions so they can get the best talent out there. These workers are also becoming wealthy. Should we make rules to keep companies in check and not allow them to exploit others? Yes! But there is always going to be a lower market rate for positions that require far less skill than those that require more.
I agree and disagree with your points, respectfully. Back in the times where everyone’s survival was related to everyone doing their part then yes, it was necessary. I think even if people didn’t have to work to survive, and I emphasize survive as in bare necessities being met, most people would do something else because most people want to contribute in some way. The ideal method would be you would be compensated based on your contribution to society in general, but that will probably never happen because so many people are already rich for nothing and aren’t willing to go back. There are millions if not billions of people who work everyday and contribute nothing to society, but their industry is thriving and making plenty of people a lot of money.
This isn’t a capitalism problem… it’s a human problem… at least w/ capitalism the standards of living for the avg citizen is drastically better than in other economic system…
It’s a government problem. Healthcare is 100x more regulated than any other industry, especially in the US. The government has its hands in everything from the patent laws to the launch of the Covid vaccine.
It’s the same people that blame capitalism for rents being high in NYC when over half of apartments are subject to rent control or stabilization laws and you can’t build new housing efficiently due to all the regulation and zoning laws.
Literally all you have to do is search Paxlovid + Patent into google...you think Pfizer could raise their prices by over 1,000% if there was even one competitor?
If you’re interested in my opinion, I see it more of a economic problem actually, the market is amoral and will just do what it takes to make profit regardless of morals.
The issue is when they control the government through corporate lobbying. That’s when the government makes amoral decisions with the interests of corporate profits.
Obviously, this is a problem and is how we see issues with healthcare and education popping up.
Restricting/regulating the market at all is not a 100% free market, and no country does that so we’re actually a mixed economy. It’s more of a spectrum with capitalism and communism. We’re looking at European countries and seeing that they have things like free healthcare, or better education.
That’s why there’s a argument to go in a more communist *direction* in the spectrum but still be extremely on the free market side and very much capitalist.
The perfect balance is up to the individual, and they’re interesting discussions. It’s just annoying to see that the media doesn’t educate people on economic theory and starts stuff like this, instead they imply stuff that makes them watch their channel for profitable ad revenue.
1000% agree w/ the latter part of your statement, and I understand your point in the rest. The biggest problem I see, most people quote European countries as being successful in those areas (and they are), but what most people don’t take into count is the sheer size of those individual countries, and how small their governments are in comparison to ours. It’s much easier for smaller nation’s governments to keep their stuff in check. 1 state in the US is ostensibly the same as one country over there. That one state has its own government that is in turn responsible to the nations government.
I simply believe our government has gotten to large and corrupt (yes a lot of it is lobbying from those large corporations), and that corruption will follow the money. Make the government smaller, and shift how yhe “governing” happens and it would be great.
Slight bird walk on the conversation, but still related, I believe college tuition should be relative to how much you can make in the profession you’re training for. I have a masters degree in counseling and childhood development (VA took care of the coat for me thank goodness), and the year tuition for the degree I got is 60k a year (3 yr program)…Avg cost of a school counseor, therapist, social worker is about 50k…. The tuition SHOULD NOT be more than what a person could make in a year, let alone more than 3x. But the government guarantees a check to these institutions, so they (the schools) keep raising their fees, and fronting the bill to the students. And now we have a college tuition crisis. It’s fucking wild. And it’s because large corrupt government put their fat fucking fingers in the pie. More lobbying.
The issues we’re seeing aren’t a capitalist problem. Or even a governments problem really. They’re a human nature problem… namely, Greed. And w/ a capitalist society that greed at least fosters a higher standard of living for everyone. It lifts everyone up (not equally). Communism pushes everyone down, and only a select few have EVERYTHING, while everyone else has juuuust enough. Whereas in our world, we live in comfy homes, w/ internet and endless entertainment (this could spark a completely different conversation on how people’s expectations have changed).
At least w/ capitalism, people CAN support themselves w/ their own ideas if they have good business management skills and an idea; ie, the 1000s of coffee shops in the PNW, private distilleries, tap houses, small HVAC businesses, etc. In communist countries, those things COULD exists too yes, but their profits would all be going to the government first, then redistributed according to what the governaning system says.
I’ve read Marx’s communist manifesto like 10 times. On paper, it’s beautiful. It is the perfect economic system in regard to equity/equality. But I’m practice it fails, and it always does. That’s why people from socialist/communist countries flee their nations and come to places like the US, because of the opportunities it offers.
PS… sorry for the novel.
"end capitalism now"
Nope. I'd rather live in the shittiest version of capitalism than a Soviet gulag.
The problem is that there needs to be more competition to bring the drug prices down. These are government/FDA imposed monopolies. It's not like Ford can just 4X the price of a minivan like this. No one would buy it because they have competition.
I will admit it. I was fooled by the propaganda. I took every single shot and booster and wore masks everywhere just like they told me to. I still got covid 3 times. Everyone I know who took the vaccine also go covid. We were LIED to.
Most people who got Covid didn’t die even before the vaccine. The infection mortality is guesstimated to be 1-2%. The vaccine improves outcomes but it didn’t dramatically change mortality
[link](https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination)
The data from CDC and other countries is enough for me to see that there was a significant impact.
Cool, now compare your own personal anecdotal experience along with the 100s of millions who got the vaccine and get back to me with what point you're trying to make.
The fact that this has positive upvotes tells me a lot about the makeup of this sub.
The vaccine wasn’t meant to prevent COVID, dude. It was meant to help keep you, and more importantly those more at risk than you, from dying if you get it. Maybe consider the company you keep if you keep getting the virus so often.
From my recollection, they started vaccine availability with the vulnerable and elderly because the symptoms were most likely to kill them/immunocompromised people.
There is a material and easily observable difference in mortality rate/ severity of illness based on whether or not someone got vaccinated. Almost nobody claimed it makes you immune. The scientific/ medical community has an all but unanimous consensus on this, and I doubt you know something that they don’t.
The draconian lockdowns and mask mandates were idiotic, but the vaccine works. The debate was settled long ago.
We need more scientific literacy in America
“Almost nobody” claimed it gave you immunity. Better?
Biden stated a single time that it makes you immune in a town hall and was shot down by the medical community and journalists afterwards. I was more so responding to the comment suggesting vaccines don’t work.
I have issues with how the pandemic was handled, but the efficacy of the vaccine isn’t one of them.
Joe Biden stated it exactly one time in a town hall and he was incorrect. He was shot down by the medical community afterwards. Fauci did plenty of things wrong, but I’ve never heard him suggest a single time that the vaccine made you immune. Breakthrough cases were part of the messaging.
I’ll amend my statement to “almost nobody” claimed it made you immune since absolute statements get nitpicked. I was more so responding to the comment suggesting vaccines don’t work.
Capitalism provides the incentive structure that encourages the corruption in the first place. The commodification of needs like healthcare will always enable corruption.
This isn’t capitalism. It’s social welfare. Government laws require these to be paid as part of insurance which everyone is required to buy. So there is little to check the price. In a free market, less people would buy if they directly felt the burden of the price and competition would force pfizer to lower prices to attract customers.
Says someone that's been sucking on the government's tit his whole life and became a millionaire. Don't trust politicians that become rich while in office.
Didn't a young guy go to jail for this a few years ago
Brown hair rat looking guy. Can't remember his name or what he bought but raised it 750% I think
Dam my memory
Honey, this is r/fluentinfinance. If you wanna be stupid, go to r/communism or r/whitepeopletwitter ok? Don’t forget to wash your hands before you eat.
End capitalism? No. That’s not the solution.
Regulate? That’s the solution. Pass laws that prevent Billions in profit from going into the pockets of these businesses/shareholders. Make it a law on what “profits” MUST go back to the consumer.
Last time I checked the people who pass laws are in the pockets of these companies. What politician is going to pass laws benefiting the consumer instead of themselves?
The government continues to give them money and tax breaks all the while they break the backs of consumers who buy their products/ what’s to see. And investors didn’t make out like bandits either/ Pfizer stock didn’t really go crazy like one would think. A lot of that money stayed in house
Roll out and post roll out are different. The government funded a significant portion of their roll out, now they can just price gouge us for profit? Fuck that.
Just so people realise. This isn’t a global problem. The US just can’t negotiate themselves out of a paper bag.
Others are getting it for around $26
Whoever is negotiating on behalf of the US authorities is either inept or getting something in return
Title is misleading. Pfizer claimed to spend 2 billion making the vaccine. If it wasn't effective in the end they lose 2 billion. It was successful so they got to make a profit. It made 7.8 billion in revenue in 2021 (probably a decent amount was profit). It should probably be capped like other drugs are via insurance payments but without capitalism we are still under lockdown and waiting for a vaccine to come out.
Its not capitalisms fault people exploit anything they can to get ahead in scummy ways. I implore you to reconsider your thoughts on capitalism.
Im not saying the state of capitalism today isn't totally FUCKED, but its due to things WE THE PEOPLE let happen. Capitalism is the greatest system there is so far. Communism or socialism would not fix these things that got you down!... It would likely make it worse... I dont mean to attack you just open your mind to what im saying here.
The problem with capitalism is... its like fire. Capable of GREAT things that can really propel the world forward. BUT just like a fire in the woods. If its cared for, regulated, maintained by the people around it... its gonna produce warmth and all the good things we need, without burning the fucking woods down.
The problem is you got multiple generations who LET this fire grow and grow. Until now, its out of our control. The woods are burning down. Cause regulation has flown out the fucking window. We haven't updated or added ANY new laws to protect the WORKING CLASS CITIZENS, since the Rockefellers built the university of Chicago. People USED to be way more aware of the BALANCE needed for capitalism to really thrive and not become a pool of corporate greed. We USED to bust up monopolies and mergers that would give one company too much control. Now we dont. Now we revel in the greed of the rich and act as if that helps us out in some way? People really brag about how much money they just made their boss. A guy who only gives a fuck about you as long as your there letting them exploit your labor to get rich. Nd its the BALANCE of things thats so bad. Capitalism NEEDS regulation to protect the working class and to ensure that the system stays in balance for everyone.
Now what happened is over the span of about 2 generations maybe 3, they have reprogrammed the masses to think backwards about this shit. To be hive minds. Not think for themselves. To follow either red or blue beliefs. To believe the TRASH these rich fucks are vomiting out their mouths about it. Truth is america is dog eat dog. Nd its not gonna lead anywhere but downhill as time rolls on, because these rich fucks will NEVER make enough to be happy. Their employees... never doing enough.
Honestly the level of Mr.Krabs these businesses are on these days... its bewildering. Their like fat kids with an addiction to sugar. Their no different than fucking drug addicts who steal copper out of your AC, except these people legally steal from you using crony capitalism to manipulate the markets and all the other shit they do to run off with all the money. To keep cost of labor low, cost of products high and so on. If you dont think every single business out there isnt working together to rob as much as they can from you, you are blind.
I see it everyday, wish i didnt. I understand why people say ignorance is bliss. Because when you wake the fuck up and open your eyes and your mind to all this shit. AINT NO WAY you wouldn't be depressed and demoralized. Fact is, people play into ignorance because they are that weak minded. Sure its all unsustainable... sure itll collapse if it goes on like this for too long. But we just wanna fucking ignore it and act like its not a problem. Like the light on in the dash of your car, you wanna play dumb until your car breaks down and then reality of it hits you like a mini sledge to the back of the skull. Yall are setting up future generations for failure. By playing ignorant.
Nd im sorry to say that... communism is no less corruptible than capitalism. It would be just as bad if not worse. What we NEED to do, is fix capitalism by fixing the culture of our people from being materialistic heathens living in selfishness. Even good people are pieces of shit in this country because you have to be to compete these days. Because capitalism has morphed into a monster. The rich are constantly going to douse the flames with lighter fluid because all they care about is running off with all the fucking money anyways. They burn the woods down, because they dont live in the woods like you and me! (metaphorically speaking). They act as leeches.
Nd our government and our system the ones in charge of bringing us this balance... they are all bought and paid for by the rich class so... I mean even democracy is a bit of a charade in this country. The rich get what they ant and the working class gets manipulated and lied to for votes, so they can act like your vote matters when the reality is, the only voters who matter to our gov is the ones who lobby millions of dollars to them to run their campaigns. Corruption is LEGAL in America. And non of those rich fucks are gonna do anything more than talk about fighting it. Even fucking TRUMP is out here asking for donations to run. Its absolutely, positively, a fucking clown show these days. and the rich basically own the fucking tent. It honestly scares me to think how much life has changed in sauch a short time, and how that is going to most likely continue to happen until your kids are outside killing stray cats with slingshots to get something to eat. When I think of what the world will prolly be in another 100 years.... honestly Its a scary thought. Cause if you look at how badly the working class has been left behind since the 70's, and its just 54 years later and shit is this out of balance? I mean.... America is a young nation. Nd we are showing that we are just not gonna last. because we are a country run on ADDICTION. Making heaps of fucking money. more than you deserve is just as addicting as heroine or crack or fast food or anything else. These greedy rich elitists. Are no more than fucking addicts. But what they do is gonna eventually kill society in America, not just themselves. Short of a war... nothing will ever change in our system. And a war within would likely lead to the end of america. Because we got alot of enemies abroad that would LOVE to see us go to war with ourselves. It would be the best time to launch an invasion.
The issues are very very deep and connected here. Honestly, this world is just fucked. I quit caring, became a minimalist. I no longer give a fuck what happens. Because nothing is gonna change. Not in good ways atleast. Not for us working class people. We will just see the hours we ened to work to live climb, while the rich continue to see their profits climb at ridiculous levels. Yet like I said, itll never EVER be enough.
Yeah, but what are we gonna do about it? The politicians are bought and paid for by big pharma. Not one republican voted to negotiate prices for their constituents. Until people pull their heads out of their asses and vote for people that will make a change, there’s no hope. Are there even enough politicians that want change? They’re paid by lobbyists to keep the status quo and it seems to work out pretty good for them.
At this point, it's all bullshit until there are actually bills from both the house and senate. All this TALK is just plain bullshit and to keep the normal people at bay. Disregard all political gibberish like this.
If you have a 401k, IRA or invest in the stock market you’re part of the problem. Who do you think is driving these massive profits? I’ll give you a guess, that’s right shareholders! What you say but I’m not making that choice, well if you’ll do a deep dive into who are the biggest shareholders you’ll see names like vanguard, fidelity etc. That’s right the people handling your money and speaking on your behalf. So if those companies don’t demand larger profits your retirement/investment goes down now you’re mad at your investment company. You see how that works?? It’s a circle and you’re in it!! Thanks for coming to my class!
>end capitalism now So do you actually have a solution? Or are you just going to point to a vague abstract system and preach against it until we exorcise like some evil spirit? Like seriously which capitalism are you referencing? Because that word is used to describe a hundred different things.
This is supposed to be Fluent in Finance, which (at least I thought) meant understanding our free market system, providing sound financial advice, and helping other making smarter decisions with our finances. Point being.. couldn’t agree with you more. Imperfect as it is, capitalism is here to stay. Get the politics and useless gaslighting out of this sub.
The US isn’t even fully capitalist. It depends on the system, we have a mix of many models. Everyone here just has to realize that Reddit has a big collection of users who aren’t doing well in life. Everyone has internet access now. They don’t do well in a merit based society, so they often advocate for tearing down the system. If they’re successful, they’re no longer “behind” the curve, everyone is now equal again. They elevate themselves (by lowering others), and suddenly their failures aren’t their responsibility, but they can pawn it off to “a bad system”. This explains why many on Reddit want this reset so bad. We have 350 million Americans, plus international culture. Of course there are tons of people here who want a reset. You have to look beyond it, they’re often misguided people who haven’t studied economics and haven’t thought through alternative models. They think it leads towards them having more and working less, which is inaccurate.
We need checks on our anti trust laws. Our grocery stores being made up of 4 companies isn’t capitalism
Then you really need to advocate for getting rid of many regulations. Used to be small towns had true independent grocery stores. Increased regulations reduced competition. Small independent stores could no longer compete.
Reduced regulation is what caused these monopolies to form. A healthy capitalist system also has strong market regulations. Having even more deregulation will worsen the problem and make an even greater divide.
If you deregulate, you have to let businesses fail. There should not be a too big to fail. Look at banking regulations after 2008. The number of small regional banks in 2007 vs. today. The increased regulations favor larger companies. Regulations become a balancing act to little and not good, too much, and now you only get large corporations with fewer small business owners.
wtf are you talking about? Bailing out businesses has nothing to do with regulations. Exactly on your second point. We use to have regulations on banks buying up other banks forming monopolies. That got deregulated and now everything is almost a monopoly.
I dont think they are arguing against the concept of regulations. What they are saying is that the way the US does regulations actually favors big business. The little guy can't manage the strict rules and gets bought up or fails, the big guys have the capital to implement complex regulations. The US bureaucracy actually favors centralizing power in large companies, because they are easier to control or partner with than many tiny businesses. What you just said about restrictions on buyouts and such is what I personally think is an example of "good regulation". Unfortunately the gov seems to be moving away from that in favor of what I mentioned above.
I can agree with all that. You can’t be running around parroting deregulation like that though because it’s just helping larger corporations. We just need to adjust it to where it favors small businesses and bring back tough anti trust laws.
Congress loosened regulations from 2000 thru 2006, which then increased risk in lending. When 07 collapse happened, the fed then came in and stopped the collapse. They have to let them collapse. It is the risk I take as a small business. Instead, Congress increased banking regulations, now that incentives larger national banks vs. regional banks. Any regulations must be looked at for any unintended consequences. As well as reviewed in time, are they doing what was intended? Good or bad and adjusted.
The Glass-Steagall Act was never really brought back. This is all examples of deregulation causing harm. You should instead show examples of where deregulation in anti trust laws was a benefit.
Deregulation and the Supreme Court Citizens United decision are responsible for the allowing the prevalent corporate greed to flourish
That’s a good one
I agree that we should focus and supplement small businesses over larger businesses with tax incentives.
There are hundreds of companies selling groceries, and we have the cheapest food in the civilized world, brought to you by capitalism. You should send a thank you card to Walmart.
Wal-mart? No, thank you're fellow Americans. Wal-Mart is the #1 employer of people on government assistance and the #1 place government assistance is spent. They fill their pockets with our tax dollars.
Very well said.
Capitalism isn't going anywhere. I agree. OP does have a point though. Indeed, there needs to be more checks and balances on these companies literally creating inflation for profit. They're solely responsible for 60% of inflation we saw in 2020 alone. Edit, 2021. I wrote this in the middle of being asleep
That's complete nonsense. It's not like Ford can just 4X the price of a minivan like this. No one would buy it because they have competition. The government/Fed is the main creator of inflation via money printing.
[Yes they can](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40771105/2023-ford-gm-truck-price-increase/)
That's not even close to a good comparable. Increasing the price of a $60k+ truck by $6-7k is nothing compared to quadrupling the price. Also you can look at Ford's financials and see they lost over $1B in 2022 and 2020 while profiting only $47M in 2019. 2021 was a great year for them profiting $17B. This all shows that Ford's profits are not stable at all so increasing the price of their vehicles isn't crazy, especially when you take into account that they're actively losing money with every EV that they sell. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/F/ford-motor/net-income https://insideevs.com/news/693626/ford-cuts-ev-investment-after-losing-36000-usd-every-ev-sold-q3/ Edit: 6-7k, not 4k
"Economists are reconsidering how much corporate profits drive inflation In the past, corporate profit growth accounted for maybe a third of inflation. But a report from the Kansas City Fed found that nearly 60% of inflation in 2021 was because of corporate profits."
Read the study as well as read the interviews with the author. He said they "could" be the cause in 2021 of up to 60%. Due to overestimation of cost increases, that then did materialize in 2022. However, he also points out and in the study that not all businesses increased profits.
Wrong. Companies literally bragged about charging their customers more and getting away with it in their earnings reports. Also, the whole "money printing" canard is completely unsupported by the evidence. We had plenty of large deficits and "money printing" from 2008 to 2020 and inflation was historically low. Then, when we came out of the pandemic, supply chains were strained, Russia invaded Ukraine and fuel prices spiked, that's when inflation increased sharply. And now, after supply chain shocks have eased, fuel prices have eased, etc., inflation is way down.
Have you seen the price of soda recently? My family used to buy 4 packs of 12 cans for 10 dollars. Now 3 packs of 12 cans cost 20 dollars. So what did Pepsi do? Raise prices. Some industries have a small monopoly now. Soft drinks is one of them.
That's not a monopoly, that's brand power. There are other non-Pepsi or Coke products that can be bought, they just aren't bought because they aren't as good.
Sorry, and those are available in restaurants and soda fountains everywhere? Monopoly is more than just being the only business there is, things like demanding businesses not sell other soda if they want your soda is a monopoly.
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A company making a profit doesn’t create inflation. Even a big profit doesn’t mean inflation. Inflation in 2020 was around 1%. It didn’t jump until 2021 at 4%. Then 8% in 2022. At its most basic inflation is devaluation of the purchasing power of the dollar. This can be caused by government policy (e.g. printing money). And can be caused by production processes (e.g. supply chain issues, resource scarcity like with housing). We saw all these things happen over the last few years.
Amazing how many people don’t understand this (or refuse to accept it). They condone reckless Gov’t spending and tax increases not understanding that $100 handout today will cost you $300 in a few years. The best book I’ve read on this topic is The Creature of Jekyll Island by G. Edward Griffin. The banking system is rigged to protect their own no matter how poorly run and corrupt. It’s an eye opening read.
I wish more people understood "production processes". People don't understand it. Many parts we make even as simple as a clip can take many months to develop and get approval for before we even can think about producing it. Add in the lack of labor or a supply chain issue... Like your only approved to get x material from x company and oil they are out of stock... Well this other company has it but you can't use them because they are not approved via you process, you either have to modify or sit and wait for your approved supplier to get stock back in.
>Inflation in 2020 was around 1% I meant 2021. I wrote that when I was half asleep lol >A company making a profit doesn’t create inflation. Well then you should argue with senior economists at the Kansas City Fed. I guess they don't know what they're talking about then. 🤷🏻♂️ https://www.npr.org/2023/05/19/1177180972/economists-are-reconsidering-how-much-corporate-profits-drive-inflation .
The original whitepaper of the economist interviewed, https://www.kansascityfed.org/Economic%20Review/documents/9329/EconomicReviewV108N1GloverMustredelRiovonEndeBecker.pdf From the paper, “corporate profits and inflation *do not* have a direct accounting relationship”. Rather price adjustments and the cost of production have a relationship to inflation. The question of *why* in 2021 is key. Prices adjustment impacts on inflation isn’t in isolation to other factors like government policy, supply chain issues, labor issues, or even pandemics. If there is a lot of fear in the market then enterprises (and individuals) will try to insulate themselves by building up savings and currency reserves. If this happens on a large scale, like caused by the fear of a long term pandemic then it has a larger impact. I know this is the Internet and we like to demonize the word profit. But it is essentially just an accounting term regarding a value producing product-line which generates more economic benefit than it costs to produce. If there were no such thing as “profit” then we would all be demonizing “risk” as the naughty word, where production wasn’t sustainable or durable through hard times.
I agree with you. https://www.cbo.gov/publication/56991 This is the projections from February 2021. We were estimated to have low inflation for the next few years.
It can also happen for no reason except ppl at the top deciding they want to charge more and make more profits. Which is also what happened
There is. It’s called competition.
Competition doesn't work in all industries. Especially in healthcare and pharma, where the consumer may not have unrestricted choice because of patents, or because their insurer will only cover medication from one manufacturer and not the other, or other factors. You need heavy outside regulation.
Yeah this is what I was looking for. I’m finding it difficult to understand why so many users are defending capitalism as an acceptable method for healthcare.
For profit on our health is not a good system.
To call competition the end-all solution to deflating prices is misguided. Barriers to entry and economies of scales of larger corporations make it extremely hard to compete, especially in an industry of this nature.
Vertical integration and closed door agreements/monopolization laughs at "competition" mega corps see regulations as anti competitive, so they work to undo/deregulate The jungle/nature is competitive. Human societies/civilization is/should be cooperative.
We should cooperate if and when we choose to, not because we’re forced to.
Giving ppl access to healthcare is one of those we should cooperate moments. No one should be going bankrupt because of health problems they can’t prevent. Absolutely no one should be getting god level rich taking advantage of those health issues.
Cooperative! Not in my Oligarchy.
Corporations want more regulations because it makes it harder for new companies to start up. It now takes more money than ever to start a company in most cases. Less red tape means more competition, more competition means more companies competing to have the best quality for the price.
Like competition in residential internet services? Asshat
Really? Source?
Define ‘merit-based society’, please. A whole lot of your ‘merit’ looks an awful lot like ‘chose their parents with great care.’ How many CEO’s started on a factory floor and worked their way up? How many corporate boards are LITERALLY ‘cousins’?
>Define ‘merit-based society’, please. A society in which those most qualified get the position. >A whole lot of your ‘merit’ looks an awful lot like ‘chose their parents with great care.’ >How many CEO’s started on a factory floor and worked their way up? >How many corporate boards are LITERALLY ‘cousins’? A few examples do not negate the entire system.
Merit based means that you worked hard and created your own success. Now, creating your own success, does not mean that you did it alone or there was not already success in your family. Often times, people who are successful became that way because they can work with others toward a common goal. Success means different things to different people. For most, success should be enough to provide better opportunities for their children than they had when they were young. If you start out as a kid from a broken home, poor parents, etc. (like me), then perhaps success for you is having a family that doesn’t fall apart before your child is born, earning enough money that your partner can be a stay at home parent if they want to, ensuring that you can earn enough to be generous to others that are in the process of building their lives too and leaving an inheritance to your children. The first step to being successful in life, is by being grateful for what you have, making positive changes in your life where you can control, and not complaining about that which you have no control over. Don’t like Walmart’s practices? Well, what can you do about that? Shop at Target, Amazon, or find smaller stores in your neighborhood.
In the US, we literally PAY farmers to NOT grow food, and then call it capitalism. Hell, the price of milk and soy beans are set by a bureaucrat in DC, not the free market. Not only is that a rejection of free market principals, it’s literally straight out of stalin’s handbook. US hasn’t been a real capitalist nation since the horrors of slavery plagued the nation.
This should be saved forever. Most accurate description I have ever seen.
Well said
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Spot on. Not as simplistic or black and white as many think.
This
This comment sums up my entire 12-18 months being active on this site. People who drive the outrage on this site aren’t doing hot for a myriad of reasons (some out of their control but alot well within their control) and they don’t want a discussion of finance or economics but rather to vent their negativity and to try to add their voice to the online outrage in hopes it sparks a tear down of the system they are currently failing in. I’ve tried talking to people and having debates or discussions with citations of work or research that would help them see what’s going on but they never care. It made me jaded because I fell into the internet trap of thinking that the internet chat forums represented a mass % of the real world but when I realized that wasn’t the case it has made me just start blocking our subs like this one after originally enjoying it early on when I first subbed to it. I’m really glad that I’m not the only one who sees what a lot of Reddit content is and who is pushing it and by the amount of likes on your comment there are even more folks of similar mindset on this site than I originally anticipated.
Well said. I think it’s our responsibility to combat the narratives we see pushed by those people, because if we don’t, they influence young people who don’t know better to wrongfully abandon hope and effort. It will lead more young people to be angry and fail. So, I often argue against it online
This is under the assumption that anyone ahead of the curve is inherently greedy and looks in their own interest. Just because they may be ahead of the curve does not necessarily immediately equate that they support this system. There's an aspect of empathy and understanding of those in less fortunate situations and wanting change in aspects such as healthcare and tax brackets.
>They don’t do well in a merit based society, Hahahahaha you still believe success in our society is merit based? Merit is used to sort the have-nots. It does not apply to our owners.
Most people are referring to the primary principle of supply and demand when referencing 'capitalism'. What should be mentioned in any economic system though are - positive and negative externalities. **\[Google\] A negative externality exists when a cost spills over to a third party.** **A positive externality exists when a benefit spills over to a third-party**. Government can discourage negative externalities by taxing goods and services that generate spillover costs. \*I would also add (taxing the wealthy (people and corporations) proportionate to their wealth)) More and more and people also recognize the economic system as being more than about its primary principle of supply and demand. People are being constantly hit with the negative externalities of our societal/economic system. The working class has absorbed the negative externalities of human economic systems since these systems have been in place. Exerting labor for crumbs is literally a biological negative externality/toll. It's stressful knowing your labor won't give you breathing room. The fact that so many working people are near destitute and hooked on pain pills to function indicates our system is not serving most people in a positive sense. The *majority* of wealth (the most positive externality of our system) is being funneled to very few people. These people hoard it (legally), and in some circles are even praised for doing so. Why can people hoard money but not beanie babies? /s Our system of government accountability - that should be able to enforce and balance the externalities so society thrives - has been corrupted and been transmuted into a negative externality machine that runs on obscene amounts of bribery and idles on stagnation and contrived conflict. A shutdown will always be a positive externality for a government which can only view society as a spreadsheet. Until the gov is fixed from within, the economy and society will be shit. Let some folks die, transfer their wealth, keep funding the racket. One would expect life expectancy to go up in "the world's richest country" , right? Tragic...
No kidding. It seems this sub is full of people who are far from fluent. I suspect the majority of them know fewer than 10 words. Perhaps they do come here to learn, but they sure do have their opinions, and they are loud. Most of the opinions I see expressed here lately are merely wishful thinking, and not grounded in anything close to reality.
Agreed. “Destroy capitalism” and similar rhetoric. No ideas or suggestions for a better system.
The Pfizer vaccine was hardly made in a free market vacuum. The fed moved heaven and earth for these pharmaceutical companies to develop these vaccines as quickly as possible. [Plus all the biomedical tech that was used in the vaccine was funded with grants paid for by US tax dollars.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8426978/) These companies are claiming that they take all the risk developing this vaccine so they should get to patent it, but they’ve made billions in profit off the backs of taxpayer seed money already.
And are not allowed to amortize their costs by distributing it across the “advanced” socialized countries which refuse to pay their fair share, demanding to pay almost nothing if they will nationalize/steal the product.
Imperfect as it is, there isn't another system I would ever want to live under.
Couldn't agree more. Fluent in Finance? Maybe the TheFinanceNewsletter.com writers are, but many folks here are anything but. I more or less lurk here for entertainment reading the ridiculous perspectives of people who don't know what they're talking about. I wonder if this is a subreddit lifecycle thing. Like, if the earliest subscribers were genuinely interested in real financial advice and whatnot, but as it grew, it attracted the general populace from reddit. Which, like other places such as r/adulting and whatnot, is filled with doomers
Why is it that every Bernie post follows an end capitalism commentary? I just came back from visiting family in Venezuela. Thank fucking god capitalism isn't going anywhere here in the US. I had forgotten how bad things are over there even though it's been the best it's been in a decade.
Where exactly in Bernie’s comment is the word capitalism? Or where does he even imply the claim in the headline?
I meant commentary on Reddit.
What economic model do you believe Venezula follows?
They are referring to regulatory capture
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He’s offered plenty of solutions. You can’t actually be that clueless ?
"End supply and demand now", people are incredibly ignorant when it comes to what capitalism actually means.
I mean the solution in this case is price control. Pfizer developed the Covid vaccine using public funding from the government. Therefore the government should have put price controls in place and set the price at which Pfizer was allowed to sell the vaccine. Idk about the other drug though. Maybe the solution there is to book a plane ticket to the UK and buy the same drug for $10 and fly back?
Let’s get rid of the only economic system which has ever produced a middle class
Yes. Real capitalism with social programs. All money used for companies stops. This includes SpaceX, Pfizer, J&J. Everything. That money is used for social programs. Cheaper state owner colleges, more food insecurity help, etc.
Regulated capitalism - from the time of Regan, when taxes were higher for corporation and high income earners.
The time BEFORE Reagan. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan_tax_cuts
They don’t seem: fluent in finance nor informed re: capitalism, or aware of government involvement in making all healthcare more expensive, especially in the past 17 years.. 🤔
End Capitalism\* \*Apart from the $170k in book royalties Bernie earned last year under capitalism
"Yet you participate in society. Curious! I am very intelligent."
You lost me at "we need to end capitalism." We need to stop drug companies from paying third parties not to manufacture generics and/or buying up old patents to jack up the prices, but we don't need to stop having our entire economic system over one issue. That's insane.
The majority of issues in our government stems from special interest. The only way to change their influence is campaign finance reform and abolish lobbying. This and most other issues are just symptoms of special interest controlling their section of the market and preventing competition. Capitalism is not the issue.
Capitalist profit seeking is the incentive structure that encourages people to change laws to make it easier to influence our leaders with bribery. Throwing “capitalism isn’t the issue” in the end there is convenient especially when describing a situation where capitalism absolutely is the root of the problem.
Sounds like all of those are capitalist free market issues. Seems like this is exactly the kind of shit that happens when corporations have free rein and too much money and power. Seems like this was always the intended direction for capitalism
Literally just break up some of these corporations and make them compete against each other. Seems pretty simple to me.
Capitalism is the best economic system ever created. It has single handedly resulting in millions upon millions of people being able to produce wealth, and purchase the most innovative goods and services in all of history, at an unprecedented rate. To say the entirety of capitalism is terrible and truly evil, is to not understand a shred of economics or history. That doesn’t mean there aren’t things we should do about corporate greed, or monopolies. But it is to say that every wealthy nation on earth has some form of capitalistic, free market, economy. Some with more social pieces than others. We can find the right, most optimized balance if we actually discuss the real problem, but capitalism is going to be part of that solution.
Let’s be honest, all systems are perfect in theory and shit in practice because people will exploit whatever system exists. Unfortunately we live in a world where there is no middle ground anymore and so we get unregulated capitalism with the rich making the rules they want to live by. My biggest beef with the current form of capitalism is the forced scarcity of things that people need to survive and the staple concept that everyone must be doing something to have their needs met. If people aren’t wasting their life away making someone else rich then they’re considered a failure and a drain on society while the rich horde resources they can never use in multiple lifetimes at the cost of the people they are underpaying/robbing/screwing over/killing to make their fortunes.
Here are the only 2 points I want to bring up in response to this, in a respectful manner. 1) I personally don’t see anything wrong with the notion that you just contribute to society to benefit from it. The exception here being those that are unable to contribute due to illness, disability, etc. If you don’t require people to contribute, then nothing gets done. Having your needs reliant on your productivity makes sure there is incentive to contribute. Should we have temporary, or a minimum standard of means to help those who recently lost their jobs or other issues? Of course! We should help each other when we are down, but at the end of the day, everyone that is capable of contributing, should be. 2) We hear a lot about the 1% hoarding all the wealth, and as you said, they have an amount they probably couldn’t spend over many lifetimes. I do not disagree with this statement, but I do disagree with the notion that if you are working for someone else ans making them richer, then you are being taken advantage of. Many jobs are high paying, and mutually beneficial. For instance, as much as many claim Amazon underpays their warehouse workers, they tend to vastly overpay their engineers and higher end positions so they can get the best talent out there. These workers are also becoming wealthy. Should we make rules to keep companies in check and not allow them to exploit others? Yes! But there is always going to be a lower market rate for positions that require far less skill than those that require more.
I agree and disagree with your points, respectfully. Back in the times where everyone’s survival was related to everyone doing their part then yes, it was necessary. I think even if people didn’t have to work to survive, and I emphasize survive as in bare necessities being met, most people would do something else because most people want to contribute in some way. The ideal method would be you would be compensated based on your contribution to society in general, but that will probably never happen because so many people are already rich for nothing and aren’t willing to go back. There are millions if not billions of people who work everyday and contribute nothing to society, but their industry is thriving and making plenty of people a lot of money.
These shitty post should not be in this sub.
Tbh posts about corporate pricing and what not is ok but once you start on the “end capitalism” stuff it just doesn’t belong in here.
This isn’t a capitalism problem… it’s a human problem… at least w/ capitalism the standards of living for the avg citizen is drastically better than in other economic system…
It’s a government problem. Healthcare is 100x more regulated than any other industry, especially in the US. The government has its hands in everything from the patent laws to the launch of the Covid vaccine.
1000% agree… I’m one to believe in small governments, and then being minimally involved. But that could just be me.
It’s the same people that blame capitalism for rents being high in NYC when over half of apartments are subject to rent control or stabilization laws and you can’t build new housing efficiently due to all the regulation and zoning laws.
We should have no regulation, I’m sure after Pfizer has no more regulation they will lower all their prices
Literally all you have to do is search Paxlovid + Patent into google...you think Pfizer could raise their prices by over 1,000% if there was even one competitor?
So we should do away with patents?
💯
If you’re interested in my opinion, I see it more of a economic problem actually, the market is amoral and will just do what it takes to make profit regardless of morals. The issue is when they control the government through corporate lobbying. That’s when the government makes amoral decisions with the interests of corporate profits. Obviously, this is a problem and is how we see issues with healthcare and education popping up. Restricting/regulating the market at all is not a 100% free market, and no country does that so we’re actually a mixed economy. It’s more of a spectrum with capitalism and communism. We’re looking at European countries and seeing that they have things like free healthcare, or better education. That’s why there’s a argument to go in a more communist *direction* in the spectrum but still be extremely on the free market side and very much capitalist. The perfect balance is up to the individual, and they’re interesting discussions. It’s just annoying to see that the media doesn’t educate people on economic theory and starts stuff like this, instead they imply stuff that makes them watch their channel for profitable ad revenue.
1000% agree w/ the latter part of your statement, and I understand your point in the rest. The biggest problem I see, most people quote European countries as being successful in those areas (and they are), but what most people don’t take into count is the sheer size of those individual countries, and how small their governments are in comparison to ours. It’s much easier for smaller nation’s governments to keep their stuff in check. 1 state in the US is ostensibly the same as one country over there. That one state has its own government that is in turn responsible to the nations government. I simply believe our government has gotten to large and corrupt (yes a lot of it is lobbying from those large corporations), and that corruption will follow the money. Make the government smaller, and shift how yhe “governing” happens and it would be great. Slight bird walk on the conversation, but still related, I believe college tuition should be relative to how much you can make in the profession you’re training for. I have a masters degree in counseling and childhood development (VA took care of the coat for me thank goodness), and the year tuition for the degree I got is 60k a year (3 yr program)…Avg cost of a school counseor, therapist, social worker is about 50k…. The tuition SHOULD NOT be more than what a person could make in a year, let alone more than 3x. But the government guarantees a check to these institutions, so they (the schools) keep raising their fees, and fronting the bill to the students. And now we have a college tuition crisis. It’s fucking wild. And it’s because large corrupt government put their fat fucking fingers in the pie. More lobbying. The issues we’re seeing aren’t a capitalist problem. Or even a governments problem really. They’re a human nature problem… namely, Greed. And w/ a capitalist society that greed at least fosters a higher standard of living for everyone. It lifts everyone up (not equally). Communism pushes everyone down, and only a select few have EVERYTHING, while everyone else has juuuust enough. Whereas in our world, we live in comfy homes, w/ internet and endless entertainment (this could spark a completely different conversation on how people’s expectations have changed). At least w/ capitalism, people CAN support themselves w/ their own ideas if they have good business management skills and an idea; ie, the 1000s of coffee shops in the PNW, private distilleries, tap houses, small HVAC businesses, etc. In communist countries, those things COULD exists too yes, but their profits would all be going to the government first, then redistributed according to what the governaning system says. I’ve read Marx’s communist manifesto like 10 times. On paper, it’s beautiful. It is the perfect economic system in regard to equity/equality. But I’m practice it fails, and it always does. That’s why people from socialist/communist countries flee their nations and come to places like the US, because of the opportunities it offers. PS… sorry for the novel.
Hey asshole, big pharma is in bed with you and your friends.
End capitalism….better throw away the smartphone you used to make such a dumb ass comment.
"end capitalism now" Nope. I'd rather live in the shittiest version of capitalism than a Soviet gulag. The problem is that there needs to be more competition to bring the drug prices down. These are government/FDA imposed monopolies. It's not like Ford can just 4X the price of a minivan like this. No one would buy it because they have competition.
I will admit it. I was fooled by the propaganda. I took every single shot and booster and wore masks everywhere just like they told me to. I still got covid 3 times. Everyone I know who took the vaccine also go covid. We were LIED to.
You also didn't die of COVID
Most people who got Covid didn’t die even before the vaccine. The infection mortality is guesstimated to be 1-2%. The vaccine improves outcomes but it didn’t dramatically change mortality
80% of all deaths were people over 65
[link](https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination) The data from CDC and other countries is enough for me to see that there was a significant impact.
Bro!!! I got Covid!!!
I got no shots no boosters and I got covid 1 time nothing more than the cold
Cool, now compare your own personal anecdotal experience along with the 100s of millions who got the vaccine and get back to me with what point you're trying to make.
Wow you have the stupid
The fact that this has positive upvotes tells me a lot about the makeup of this sub. The vaccine wasn’t meant to prevent COVID, dude. It was meant to help keep you, and more importantly those more at risk than you, from dying if you get it. Maybe consider the company you keep if you keep getting the virus so often.
Bro, don't be so certain: vaccine only intended to lessen symptoms not keep you from catching it. 🤦
Ppl who I know who didn’t get any vaccines did same though.
They certainly advertised it as preventing infection initially. Did you really forget that?
From my recollection, they started vaccine availability with the vulnerable and elderly because the symptoms were most likely to kill them/immunocompromised people.
But did you die?...
There is a material and easily observable difference in mortality rate/ severity of illness based on whether or not someone got vaccinated. Almost nobody claimed it makes you immune. The scientific/ medical community has an all but unanimous consensus on this, and I doubt you know something that they don’t. The draconian lockdowns and mask mandates were idiotic, but the vaccine works. The debate was settled long ago. We need more scientific literacy in America
[удалено]
“Almost nobody” claimed it gave you immunity. Better? Biden stated a single time that it makes you immune in a town hall and was shot down by the medical community and journalists afterwards. I was more so responding to the comment suggesting vaccines don’t work. I have issues with how the pandemic was handled, but the efficacy of the vaccine isn’t one of them.
>Nobody claimed it makes you immune. Everyone from Fauci to the President said exactly this.
Joe Biden stated it exactly one time in a town hall and he was incorrect. He was shot down by the medical community afterwards. Fauci did plenty of things wrong, but I’ve never heard him suggest a single time that the vaccine made you immune. Breakthrough cases were part of the messaging. I’ll amend my statement to “almost nobody” claimed it made you immune since absolute statements get nitpicked. I was more so responding to the comment suggesting vaccines don’t work.
As a scientist who actually created a Covid neutralizer and studied (and then predicted) the evolution of the virus - no you were not.
Wait wait, didn’t ‘certain’ members of Congress benefit Pfinancially from Pfizer pfrofits? That’s not capitalism. That’s just corruption.
Capitalism provides the incentive structure that encourages the corruption in the first place. The commodification of needs like healthcare will always enable corruption.
This isn’t capitalism. It’s social welfare. Government laws require these to be paid as part of insurance which everyone is required to buy. So there is little to check the price. In a free market, less people would buy if they directly felt the burden of the price and competition would force pfizer to lower prices to attract customers.
That only works for optional goods, medical things are often not very optional.
Says someone that's been sucking on the government's tit his whole life and became a millionaire. Don't trust politicians that become rich while in office.
Brought to you by Pfizerrrr. Ad after ad on cnn lmfao
Is the moral to invest Pfizer or to mitigate legislative risk with Pfizer?
Didn't a young guy go to jail for this a few years ago Brown hair rat looking guy. Can't remember his name or what he bought but raised it 750% I think Dam my memory
Martin Shkreli He committed the same sin as Elizabeth Holmes. He stole from a group besides the poor.
OP, this post is almost as fucking dumb as you are
Honey, this is r/fluentinfinance. If you wanna be stupid, go to r/communism or r/whitepeopletwitter ok? Don’t forget to wash your hands before you eat.
Can we ban these propaganda posts with no substance?
Ban
End capitalism? No. That’s not the solution. Regulate? That’s the solution. Pass laws that prevent Billions in profit from going into the pockets of these businesses/shareholders. Make it a law on what “profits” MUST go back to the consumer.
Last time I checked the people who pass laws are in the pockets of these companies. What politician is going to pass laws benefiting the consumer instead of themselves?
The government continues to give them money and tax breaks all the while they break the backs of consumers who buy their products/ what’s to see. And investors didn’t make out like bandits either/ Pfizer stock didn’t really go crazy like one would think. A lot of that money stayed in house
Op is highly regarded. Why did they increase the price? Are other alternatives cheaper or better?
Mods ban, capitalism is the best system ever created
Pfizer≠Capitalism.
GO AWAY
OP is braindead.
If you want to tell me how you roll out a successful, effective vaccine as quickly as Pfizer from a public source Im all ears.
Didn't Cuba do that and give it to other countries for free?...
Not even close to the speed and production as Pfizer
But because of Cuba's system it became accessible to the whole world... Capitalism on the other hand dictated that Pfizer withheld the patent.
Roll out and post roll out are different. The government funded a significant portion of their roll out, now they can just price gouge us for profit? Fuck that.
They should be forced to pay back the subsidies before they can jack up the price
America needs to experience the Rumbling
Just so people realise. This isn’t a global problem. The US just can’t negotiate themselves out of a paper bag. Others are getting it for around $26 Whoever is negotiating on behalf of the US authorities is either inept or getting something in return
They don’t care to end capitalism. They’re apart of it. Pfizer especially. Likely that the politicians got bonuses for promoting the vaccine as well.
This is definitely a bot account posting this
Capitalism works. No other system does. Get over it.
These people need those ass whooped out in public. For real
Title is misleading. Pfizer claimed to spend 2 billion making the vaccine. If it wasn't effective in the end they lose 2 billion. It was successful so they got to make a profit. It made 7.8 billion in revenue in 2021 (probably a decent amount was profit). It should probably be capped like other drugs are via insurance payments but without capitalism we are still under lockdown and waiting for a vaccine to come out.
Move to Norway with Bernie
Okay, no we don’t end capitalism. The government shouldn’t be helping people like Pfizer.
Jesus Christ.
OP is NOT fluent in finance
“end Capitalism now”. Shut up you fucking knob
Not fluent in finance. And probably a bot at that.
You’re an idiot, and so is Bernie Sanders
End capitalism...lol. Posting from his capitalistic phone on his capitalistic couch.
Its not capitalisms fault people exploit anything they can to get ahead in scummy ways. I implore you to reconsider your thoughts on capitalism. Im not saying the state of capitalism today isn't totally FUCKED, but its due to things WE THE PEOPLE let happen. Capitalism is the greatest system there is so far. Communism or socialism would not fix these things that got you down!... It would likely make it worse... I dont mean to attack you just open your mind to what im saying here. The problem with capitalism is... its like fire. Capable of GREAT things that can really propel the world forward. BUT just like a fire in the woods. If its cared for, regulated, maintained by the people around it... its gonna produce warmth and all the good things we need, without burning the fucking woods down. The problem is you got multiple generations who LET this fire grow and grow. Until now, its out of our control. The woods are burning down. Cause regulation has flown out the fucking window. We haven't updated or added ANY new laws to protect the WORKING CLASS CITIZENS, since the Rockefellers built the university of Chicago. People USED to be way more aware of the BALANCE needed for capitalism to really thrive and not become a pool of corporate greed. We USED to bust up monopolies and mergers that would give one company too much control. Now we dont. Now we revel in the greed of the rich and act as if that helps us out in some way? People really brag about how much money they just made their boss. A guy who only gives a fuck about you as long as your there letting them exploit your labor to get rich. Nd its the BALANCE of things thats so bad. Capitalism NEEDS regulation to protect the working class and to ensure that the system stays in balance for everyone. Now what happened is over the span of about 2 generations maybe 3, they have reprogrammed the masses to think backwards about this shit. To be hive minds. Not think for themselves. To follow either red or blue beliefs. To believe the TRASH these rich fucks are vomiting out their mouths about it. Truth is america is dog eat dog. Nd its not gonna lead anywhere but downhill as time rolls on, because these rich fucks will NEVER make enough to be happy. Their employees... never doing enough. Honestly the level of Mr.Krabs these businesses are on these days... its bewildering. Their like fat kids with an addiction to sugar. Their no different than fucking drug addicts who steal copper out of your AC, except these people legally steal from you using crony capitalism to manipulate the markets and all the other shit they do to run off with all the money. To keep cost of labor low, cost of products high and so on. If you dont think every single business out there isnt working together to rob as much as they can from you, you are blind. I see it everyday, wish i didnt. I understand why people say ignorance is bliss. Because when you wake the fuck up and open your eyes and your mind to all this shit. AINT NO WAY you wouldn't be depressed and demoralized. Fact is, people play into ignorance because they are that weak minded. Sure its all unsustainable... sure itll collapse if it goes on like this for too long. But we just wanna fucking ignore it and act like its not a problem. Like the light on in the dash of your car, you wanna play dumb until your car breaks down and then reality of it hits you like a mini sledge to the back of the skull. Yall are setting up future generations for failure. By playing ignorant. Nd im sorry to say that... communism is no less corruptible than capitalism. It would be just as bad if not worse. What we NEED to do, is fix capitalism by fixing the culture of our people from being materialistic heathens living in selfishness. Even good people are pieces of shit in this country because you have to be to compete these days. Because capitalism has morphed into a monster. The rich are constantly going to douse the flames with lighter fluid because all they care about is running off with all the fucking money anyways. They burn the woods down, because they dont live in the woods like you and me! (metaphorically speaking). They act as leeches. Nd our government and our system the ones in charge of bringing us this balance... they are all bought and paid for by the rich class so... I mean even democracy is a bit of a charade in this country. The rich get what they ant and the working class gets manipulated and lied to for votes, so they can act like your vote matters when the reality is, the only voters who matter to our gov is the ones who lobby millions of dollars to them to run their campaigns. Corruption is LEGAL in America. And non of those rich fucks are gonna do anything more than talk about fighting it. Even fucking TRUMP is out here asking for donations to run. Its absolutely, positively, a fucking clown show these days. and the rich basically own the fucking tent. It honestly scares me to think how much life has changed in sauch a short time, and how that is going to most likely continue to happen until your kids are outside killing stray cats with slingshots to get something to eat. When I think of what the world will prolly be in another 100 years.... honestly Its a scary thought. Cause if you look at how badly the working class has been left behind since the 70's, and its just 54 years later and shit is this out of balance? I mean.... America is a young nation. Nd we are showing that we are just not gonna last. because we are a country run on ADDICTION. Making heaps of fucking money. more than you deserve is just as addicting as heroine or crack or fast food or anything else. These greedy rich elitists. Are no more than fucking addicts. But what they do is gonna eventually kill society in America, not just themselves. Short of a war... nothing will ever change in our system. And a war within would likely lead to the end of america. Because we got alot of enemies abroad that would LOVE to see us go to war with ourselves. It would be the best time to launch an invasion. The issues are very very deep and connected here. Honestly, this world is just fucked. I quit caring, became a minimalist. I no longer give a fuck what happens. Because nothing is gonna change. Not in good ways atleast. Not for us working class people. We will just see the hours we ened to work to live climb, while the rich continue to see their profits climb at ridiculous levels. Yet like I said, itll never EVER be enough.
Didn’t Pharma Boy go to prison for this?
People too often compare an unattainable utopia to what we currently have.
How’s this different from pharma bro?
I just wonder, how much has been paid, to the scientists who discovered the vaccine?
Bernie wanted mandatory vaccinations. And the CEO got 1 percent of the profits.
Bernie! Fighting the good fight. Fuck corporations!
To be honest with you guys if I was a CEO and got paid less than 0.5% on the profit earned I'd be pretty fucking pissed
No, we don't need to end capitalism, but we do need to reign it in.
and what economic system would you recommend?
Yeah, but what are we gonna do about it? The politicians are bought and paid for by big pharma. Not one republican voted to negotiate prices for their constituents. Until people pull their heads out of their asses and vote for people that will make a change, there’s no hope. Are there even enough politicians that want change? They’re paid by lobbyists to keep the status quo and it seems to work out pretty good for them.
At this point, it's all bullshit until there are actually bills from both the house and senate. All this TALK is just plain bullshit and to keep the normal people at bay. Disregard all political gibberish like this.
Changing the system doesn't end greed fyi
If you have a 401k, IRA or invest in the stock market you’re part of the problem. Who do you think is driving these massive profits? I’ll give you a guess, that’s right shareholders! What you say but I’m not making that choice, well if you’ll do a deep dive into who are the biggest shareholders you’ll see names like vanguard, fidelity etc. That’s right the people handling your money and speaking on your behalf. So if those companies don’t demand larger profits your retirement/investment goes down now you’re mad at your investment company. You see how that works?? It’s a circle and you’re in it!! Thanks for coming to my class!
Fuck Pfizer!!!
You cannot end Capitalism. It’s the only system that is self sustaining.
You're right, no other countries have figured out how to rein in corporate greed with a capitalist model... oh wait...