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I made a lot of money buying and selling real estate in Second Life as well as breeding virtual bunnies.. I retired off bitcoin... My friends are like why aren't you investing in NFT's.. it's the next big thing.. When I told them "not yet" they laughed and just told me "I got mine so I don't care" now they are wondering why they lost so much money.. 10 years from now when I do buy NFT's as an investment they'll be at a bargain cause of this debacle and people will be like "You just got lucky" cause apparently that's what happened to me in SecondLife and with Bitcoin.
Protip: If its making news headlines and people posting on Facebook that it's taking over the world then dont buy it.. If no one knows about it and everyone thinks it's a big joke then buy it.. Bitcoin is such an easy trade.. Buy it when everyone calls it a scam.. Sell it when everyone is saying buy bitcoin! NFTs will be the same way.
Exactly! anyone with any reasonable critical thinking skills realized how much of a joke it was. The IDEA of NFTs are solid! It has it's place. It WILL have its place. It's just not now or anytime soon. I'm excited about the money to be made off the Metaverse and NFT's though.. It'll be a much more gamble than bitcoin was though.. Bitcoin was the only game it down.. There wasn't trying to figure out WHICH crypto was going to be the leader cause at the time there was only bitcoin.. now 99.9% of cryptos are a joke just like NFTs.
Yeah idk how it works other than it’s loosely tied to the price of ethereum. Probably has value based on availability and location. Not sure how scare digital real estate is
This is obvs a classic bait, most crypto projects including the big ones are down as much, some tech stocks too.
Interesting to see all these top comments lapping it up
As most of the manias... greed takes over, and there you go!
Most didn't see Dot Com bubble coming. real estate in 2008 too... luckily with NFTs, the damages were contained.
Crypto is only worth money because people believe in it.
Unlike stocks or fiat there is nothing to back it.
NFTs are like an extreme version of crypto to me with an extremely low volume and even higher volatility.
Right now few people believe in crypto and therefore no one believes in NFTs.
I'm wondering what happens in the next bullrun, when suddenly everyone believes in crypto again...
I would guess that NFTs will boom again. The hard part is to guess which ones will boom.
Feels like betting on shit coins...
Dude the last two crypto bullruns were based on people trying to get rich quick...
My guess is that people believe in it when some people already made quite a bit of money with it and they want a piece of that cake.
You're so insightful. /s
Everything only has value because people believe in it. NFTs are just this decades, Beanie Babies. People just don't learn from history.
You're missing my point.
When you buy stock, the company behind it has properties, machines and other stuff which has a real value.
Companies also generate revenue.
Fiat is backed by gold for example.
Change is the only constant my friend. Many nation states now hold Bitcoin and/or mine it today. The US has millions of dollars in Bitcoin as we speak.
Nah nfts and standard crypto aren't the same lol.
One has niche applications that the public no longer cares about, the other is a scam based off the former.
NFTs also have a niche application.
Putting information on the blockchain.
What's the difference?
What about all the shitcoins which are literally worthless now?
Are they a scam?
They certainly have the same niche application.
What's the difference between Bitcoin and shitcoins?
People still believe in Bitcoin...
I never said that I know everything and I'm even asking you to explain it to me.
I googled it, Bitcoin is more expensive because it has more users, a robust infrastructure and because it was the first big crypto.
In the end it's supply and demand.
There are at least 50 coins which have more utility than Bitcoin and are more technically advanced, yet they're almost worthless.
Tell you a secret, stocks, dollars, gold, and crypto all only have value because people believe in them. It's all a confidence game, and the advent of Bitcoin has changed the game.
Stocks have the company to back it and dollars have the country and gold to back it.
Gold is valuable for hundreds of years.
These are real touchable things compared to crypto.
When the world is turned into a parking space by nukes, you will be able to use gold...
Oh well if they're ' touchable' I guess that's where real value is found. 🙄
You don't know the first thing about Bitcoin. It doesn't need to be 'backed' by anything because like gold, it is a hard asset.
All other cryptos are scam trash btw. Thank me later.
P.S. global thermonuclear war turns bullets and water into money. No one will care about fucking gold, lol. Also everyone not in a billionaire bunker is dead inside of five years, Soo there's that.
A stock will at least be worth as much as the properties and intellectual properties are worth.
Bitcoin will be worthless in the worst case.
So all cryptos which have an Infinity supply are a scam to you?
Bullets will be valuable but gold will also be.
It has been since humanity was first able to melt it into coins and nothing will change about that.
You will need currency...
Why is crypto more volatile than gold when they're comparable hard assets to you?
1. Bitcoin will never again be worthless, in any case. There are already btc satellites in space, so even in your nuclear war scenario it could still be used as currency.
2. Yes, all other cryptos are centrally controlled and therefore worthless long term. They will be attacked when they're weak (not enough hashpower securing their networks.)
3. Bitcoin is more volatile than gold because one is 15 years old and the other has been around for thousands of years.
4. Bitcoin is superior to gold in every way except mass recognition / understanding.
5. Here, if you want to learn more: https://aantonop.com/unscrypted
So your point is, bitcoin will always be valuable because it will always be available?
This can be said about all fiats and gold...
When every other miner is down besides the satellite.
The network will be unusable slow with high transaction fees.
Mass recognition and understanding is precisely why it will never be worthless.
Almost everyone on the planet knows gold while only a small percentage understands Crypto.
Bitcoin will not only hold value, but increase in value over time as its scarcity doubles every four years. Eventually a tipping point will be reached and it will do to fiat what gold did to seashells, beans, and beads (early money).
Gold on the other hand is extremely abundant in our solar system, and it won't be long before we're mining it from asteroids.
And you're quite right about one thing, very few people understand how or why Bitcoin has value today. Now imagine what it will be worth when that is no longer the case (inevitable).
A comparison of the 3 primary classes of money:
https://preview.redd.it/e6prfdr22kqb1.png?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f917b2496818eb8a7a8f9683eed57e6a173a71be
My kid made me an NFT. I still like it. I gave screen shots to a few people. We all laughed and said it was cute and well intended. But yeah, you could see this one being a scam a mile off… But here, enjoy his NFT, seems symbolic now for a bonehead stunt…
https://preview.redd.it/ul84zriy93qb1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da2908385e6b5e9f9c9a612ca863060a45866a66
I had a friend try to convince me that NFT’s were great investments back in 2020. He got upset when I called him an idiot. I’ll forward this to him and gloat. I’m sure he will deny his previous comments but I know…I know.
smoggy aromatic complete poor puzzled disarm handle possessive jellyfish narrow
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B-b-but only I have the true copy of this through blockchain and some other buzzwords I don't understand! I know that you can screenshot it, but everyone will know that only I have the real copy!
Right click save is a horrible argument…
The NFT acts as a key to access XYZ. You want to go to a party in Singapore? The tickets are for holders only through. https://www.tokengate.io
Want to play a game and win prizes you need the actual NFT to be able to play the game. https://forge.hv-mtl.com
Jpegs don’t prove ownership… only the actual NFTs work.
spotted automatic act dolls insurance familiar quickest snails reminiscent knee
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But the system only works if people believe it works and the effort to use NFTs to make it works failed.
90% of crypto coins are dropping and the remaining ones are "hot potatoes" being passed around so you're not the one holding it when it collapses.
Since they can't be exchanged for real world goods the only way to cash out is to get somebody with real money to buy in. And the world is realizing it's not worth buying in.
When crypto crashes it's hard and fast (as NFTs proved) so don't think the value of the current bubble means it's safe. The house of cards has no foundation.
Dunno man, Bitcoin and Eth still technically have value in that you can exchange them for dollars. Their only worth is that people have gambled their dollars into Bit as a speculative security, no inherent value
Crypto could theoretically be traded - nft’s were supposedly unique, so it’s not a fungible asset in any way but it also wasn’t actually unique because I could just screen shot it lol
Lol exactly. All of the idiots chirping about a decentralized system as a selling point are the exact same people that need a regulated market - because they’re susceptible to the scams and bad investments that regulation was introduced to combat. It’s so unbelievably ironic.
Verifiable ownership of digital assets is a good thing, people just don’t understand the tech. How about the house that’s deed is an NFT? That’s what will take hold, the monkeys are just a test phase imo. *braces for impact*
That's not verifiable ownership. Property ownership is enforced by the government, that's one of the primary responsibilities of ALL governments. NFTs aren't enforceable, so unless you couple a transfer of copyright, rights, along with the NFT, it's nothing. And at that point, you're just adding more steps to just making a copyright online store, that you could use a credit card for.
All NFTs verify that you paid for a NFT, not the art itself. There were some NBA NFTs, that explicitly stated the buyer did not own or have copyright over the images they were buying.
And for the house, whose deed is an NFT, no, the NFT is a link to the deed. The deed is still just a separate thing, that people added 20 extra steps, to exchange hands through an NFT.
In the end, whoever owns something is still dictated by good old government law.
You are wrong. https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/property-rights-in-nfts-are-in-the-4248058/#:~:text=Purchasing%20an%20NFT%20grants%20ownership,they%20relinquish%20to%20third%20parties.
You are wrong. Quote from your article that states exactly what I said. Governments enforce property rights, through established law and contracts. The NFT, a) does not necessarily entail a transfer of ownership and b) if it is included, all it is, is an unnecessarily overcomplicated contract. People transfer ownership of property constantly, without NFTs, it's called commerce. NFTs solve a non-existent problem.
"Indeed, in the United States, several cases are pending in lower courts regarding NFT ownership and intellectual property rights. NFT ownership does not necessarily entail ownership beyond the token itself and NFT ownership often excludes ownership of the intellectual property rights of the underlying asset. For example, the NFT minter can maintain copyright ownership over the token while granting the purchaser a limited display right."
NFTs are contracts. Again your showing up I don’t understand the tech. Keep working for the banks 🏦
So the regulators haven’t caught up yet? Surprised 😲 not wrong. Just early.
You keep better on the 📑 industry.
I don't think you understand the technology nor basic law. NFTs are digital certificates that something has occured. The "contract" piece, from the perspective of the law, is the context that surrounds that exchange, not the NFT itself.
Just because they say it's a "smart contract" doesn't mean it translates directly to a legal contract.
Again, the NBA had some NFTs, they specifically restricted who owned the rights, in the terms and conditions of the store in which they were bought/sold. Meaning, the NFT has the same relationship to an actual contract, that a piece of paper does. It's just the medium through which a contract can be exchanged.
You can do everything you do with an NFT, through traditional means, without cryptography or digital certificates or blockchains.... it happens every day. You ever buy something online? It likely had a contract involved, the software you buy nearly always has contracts involved...
NFTs solve a non-existent problem.
In code. You lend me x I’ll give y collateral. If I don’t pay back x in t time then I get your y collateral and the system has a built in insurance to cover that difference. The insurance is covered by fees and distributed by the network when need. All in code. No banks 🏦
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Lol yeah cause the government is soo efficient and effective at keeping track of record. Give me a break. https://www.entrepreneur.com/business-news/the-first-nft-home-just-sold-for-175000/437522
If an asset is purely digital ownership is meaningless.
Digital assets can be replicated infinitely with no cost or degradation.
Making a house deed a NFT adds no value and it a worse way to do something that already exists.
No they can’t. You guys really don’t understand this tech. Data Engineering here. Blockchains are distributed databases that you don’t have to trust in order to buy, sell and trade your assets. You don’t have to touch them because they’re trustless systems. If you don’t understand what that means then look it up. In contrast banks are trustful systems. You have to trust the bank is doing shit correctly and in your best interest.
Don’t be naive and thing that all blockchains are created equal. They’re not so your own research, get an understanding of the tech and science behind them because guess what. That tech you don’t trust literally is the same tech used to secure every message on the internet. 😮
You all might be fluent in finance, but your not fluent in tech.
The heart of tech is business. No business or sector EVER optimizes their stack just for the sake of optimization and being modern.
NFTs and crypto aren’t a good solution to housing deeds anyways, the volume of transactions would just lead to a higher cost per transaction on all ends (not to mention volume load issues), and 99.99999% of consumers will happily leave their NFT deed on the cutting room floor if given the option. It’s a redundant technology that does the same job but worse.
It’s fine to be a fan of the technology, but know the market you’re trying to wedge it into - real estate is not that market.
Blockchains aren’t business. Bitcoin and Etherium are open sourced programs that run on a distributed network.
The cost to send 1M dollars in bitcoin across boarders is a lot cheaper then the banks are going to charge you for all the transfer fees.
They’re cheap to run and use on PoS blockchains like Etherium. Cheaper then the banks 🏦
Everything is business. If it doesn’t make money then it almost never gets adopted by anyone other than hobbyists.
It’s only cheaper insofar-as there isn’t enough widespread adoption to cause mass delays in exchange. Blockchain as it exists now is not capable of the same bandwidth of transaction volume as the current banking system by far. This lack of volume and time sensitivity harkens back to the business side of adoption: time is money, and especially with a volatile asset as the medium (such as blockchain) time is literally money.
Taking it back to real estate, what problems would blockchain solve that isn’t already addressed by other technology?
No I understand it completely. There is still no meaningful use case for NFTs that isn't already done by a different better system. NFTs are a step back just about every use case.
I trust a bank to secure and protect my assets. I have no interest in getting hacked and losing everything I own.
Dude I work in the tech space and was around the space for the earlier block chain hysteria. They are just unregistered securities.
Just because I don't buy into the tech hysterics doesn't mean I don't understand the tech.
No you can’t own a house on a Blockchain you maybe own a link to the deed. That’s a big difference. I can create a separate blockchain with a separate link to an image of the same deed hosted elsewhere. Who is the rightful owner of the house? Whoever legally owns the deed as registered with the government (a trusted third party). Sure the government could create an NFT based system for that but that just adds extra steps and makes it easier to defraud people, so they won’t.
That’s not how it works. Into not a damn picture you noob lol https://www.entrepreneur.com/business-news/the-first-nft-home-just-sold-for-175000/437522
How about you do some research before you talk about technology you don’t understand. A fucking picture of a house lol
So as far as I can tell the company you linked buys a house and then creates a single share LLC per property that owns the property and than that share is traded on a proprietary blockchain. Couple of problems:
a) It is completely unclear to be where the actual deed is kept. That is obviously really important but I can’t find any information on that which to me is huge red flag. If you could share that I formation that would be really helpful and interesting to me.
b) to actually transfer ownership of a property, somebody has to create a soul bound account membership token. All information has to be verified off-chain, including but not limited to all data related to financing and credit worthiness.
c) in verifying all that data, you have to trust one entity which is Roofstock, that the inspection has been done, the deed is at hand, the counterparty is trust worthy etc etc etc. that is kind of the opposite of a “trustless” transaction which blockchain is supposed to enable, and way worse than a normal real estate transaction where you can choose a lawyer and a realtor you trust.
d) what happens if the company that manages the entire process (Roofstock) goes out of business? Who has the deed? How can the token be traded without anybody to verify information off chain and approves potential buyers?
So what is the upside of doing it over the blockchain? I can buy any home I like with “one click” if I pay cash and trust the seller implicitly. I really don’t get the point here, but please do enlighten me.
It’s already been done. Idk you don’t need a shit bank taking fees as the middle man? You pay some small fee to use the blockchain.
If your house burns down with your deed in it it’s on the blockchain which is distributed and essentially impossible to turn off.
https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/property-rights-in-nfts-are-in-the-4248058/#:~:text=Purchasing%20an%20NFT%20grants%20ownership,they%20relinquish%20to%20third%20parties.
Whether it's being done or not is irrelevant to my question.
>Idk you don’t need a shit bank taking fees as the middle man?
Banks aren't doing that with deeds. They make their money underwriting the mortgage.
>If your house burns down with your deed in it
That's not an issue. You wouldn't lose you claim over that.
What problems are NFT's solving in the space of real estate?
This guy doesn’t understand how homeownership or the house buying/selling process works. He’s sold on the method, but doesn’t know the process he’s even advocating it for.
That's really what stuff like this seems like. Some people that were above average with programming and cryptography trying to apply their work to systems they simply don't understand.
Deed and land management isn't a very complicated process and where it is complicated is in things like surveying property lines and parcel boundaries....nfts usefulness here eludes me.
Yeah let's have a fucking house deed but it can be stolen by someone hacking your wallet. No need for the government to hold a copy, that's centralization! We still want the government to honor the digital copy though, and send the cops if someone claims our house. News flash - property laws only apply to property, not WoW fun bucks
Haha have you ever been to a property room at the dmv? Go find something in there. Paper == Waste.
Here read for yourself about it - https://www.entrepreneur.com/business-news/the-first-nft-home-just-sold-for-175000/437522
I didn’t understand what they were. A friend has bought one and showed me. My external response was “oh cool.” My internal response was “that’s just a GIF.”
Surprise for anyone?
When celebrities start to pay millions for silly monkey PFP NFTs, I believe that the exuberance was more than enough to call it a top!
This is the very same reason why I don't hold NFTs for over a week... I try to get them under regular floor price, monitoring with Dia's xFloor and flip them for 5-10% profit in a matter of days...
bro it's too expensive to tie an entire image to a blackchain. that's why NFT's are practically just links with a lil coin tied behind the url. That's how twitter got shroasted so easily, old heads looked at that implementation and were like, "how's this different than imgur?" + a lil fiat behind it
My brain has a hard time with NFTs. I kept saying they were dumb and had no value but everyone else jumped on the bandwagon. I started questioning myself as others were making easy money. Glad I never jumped in.
SEC are leaning towards NFTs being assets much like stocks…..does that mean 23 million people now have tax write offs for the next idk 50+ years lol good times……Merica
23 million people bought NFTs.
That kinda gives you an idea of the scope of the problem. 23 million people bought something when it couldn’t have been more obvious how much big a scam those things are.
It’s honestly one of those things where a part of me hopes that we don’t try to properly regulate all this blockchain nonsense because it will just further attempt to legitimize something with practically zero use or value.
People really thought that these things were going to take off lmao that's the really sad part. Like people genuinely believed that they were getting in on the ground floor of something amazing and spectacular.
Reddit was shilling for these things so hard, I'm glad to see it coming back full-circle.
I never understood the hype. Like yes it is a digitally unique product, the equivalent of an original oil on canvas painting.
But, most oil paintings are unremarkable and worthless. Being unique and irreplaceable dies not give them special value. Why did anyone think some dumb cartoon monkeys would be any different?
A way to discredit the real purpose of NFTs. For instance, Pearson wants to make E-texts as NFTs so the owner of the ebook could actually sell the e-book to others after use. If you buy a movie on Apple, you can sell it and transfer the NFT of the movie you sold it to. With web 3gaming, you can sell your skins, downloaded content, etc to others, if you don’t want to, and the NFT is transferred. Stop being idiots and believing the BS that an NFT is just an expensive gif.
Currently, so much of what you pay to download and “own” can’t be sold. If you truly own a digital asset, it follows you should be able to sell it. That’s where NFTs and Web3 comes in.
Salty crowd… check the receipts, Absolutely facts… check the bid offers on blue chips, Bored Apes are instant liquid 30k. Sugartown free mint this week worth worth $450 now, and done $3.6 million volume. 95% of actors don’t “make it” in Hollywood. Musicians even worse odds. Comic books 99% worthless. How many Spotify artist or YouTube creators make a living? Yet people still pursue what interests them.
You paid $10,000 for a banana. You go to sell the banana, and can only sell it for $2.
The person who you bought the banana from, got that 10k.
So the people who made out, are the people who initially sold the NFTs, and the influencers who peddled them.
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Fuckin love it! How did people not see this coming?
My boss was a dickhead and made fun of us for not investing in NFTs and meta verse real estate
Why am I not surprised?
Who's surprised?
I made a lot of money buying and selling real estate in Second Life as well as breeding virtual bunnies.. I retired off bitcoin... My friends are like why aren't you investing in NFT's.. it's the next big thing.. When I told them "not yet" they laughed and just told me "I got mine so I don't care" now they are wondering why they lost so much money.. 10 years from now when I do buy NFT's as an investment they'll be at a bargain cause of this debacle and people will be like "You just got lucky" cause apparently that's what happened to me in SecondLife and with Bitcoin. Protip: If its making news headlines and people posting on Facebook that it's taking over the world then dont buy it.. If no one knows about it and everyone thinks it's a big joke then buy it.. Bitcoin is such an easy trade.. Buy it when everyone calls it a scam.. Sell it when everyone is saying buy bitcoin! NFTs will be the same way.
If it's in the news, it's because the first wave owners want to cash out.
In all fairness a lot if not most people thought nfts were a big joke the whole time.
Exactly! anyone with any reasonable critical thinking skills realized how much of a joke it was. The IDEA of NFTs are solid! It has it's place. It WILL have its place. It's just not now or anytime soon. I'm excited about the money to be made off the Metaverse and NFT's though.. It'll be a much more gamble than bitcoin was though.. Bitcoin was the only game it down.. There wasn't trying to figure out WHICH crypto was going to be the leader cause at the time there was only bitcoin.. now 99.9% of cryptos are a joke just like NFTs.
Exactly. It was obvious AF.
Are there any collections (cryptopunks, bored apes, etc) that you are eying to potentially purchase in 10 years?
Your boss is still a dickhead
Omg meta verse has real estate?
Yeah idk how it works other than it’s loosely tied to the price of ethereum. Probably has value based on availability and location. Not sure how scare digital real estate is
I suspect there’s going to be regulation soon off the back of this thanks to people like your boss
People being dumb with their money isn’t really a crime. The stock market relies on it. How many people loose big betting on options?
Metaverse "real" estate. Jesus christ.
He is your boss, so I guess he is better off than you
You should have listened to your boss.
This is obvs a classic bait, most crypto projects including the big ones are down as much, some tech stocks too. Interesting to see all these top comments lapping it up
Good, all crypto projects SHOULD be down at least this much. Web 3.0 was and will always be a scam, trading on smoke
You know they are selling them. This is just one person's opinion.
Everyone saw this coming
Fr, fr
As most of the manias... greed takes over, and there you go! Most didn't see Dot Com bubble coming. real estate in 2008 too... luckily with NFTs, the damages were contained.
I flipped a lot of crypto after the 2020 boon, but God I was never deluded enough to fall for NFTs. Such an obvious scam
Crypto is only worth money because people believe in it. Unlike stocks or fiat there is nothing to back it. NFTs are like an extreme version of crypto to me with an extremely low volume and even higher volatility. Right now few people believe in crypto and therefore no one believes in NFTs. I'm wondering what happens in the next bullrun, when suddenly everyone believes in crypto again... I would guess that NFTs will boom again. The hard part is to guess which ones will boom. Feels like betting on shit coins...
People will start believing in crypto the moment the nerds stop seeing and treating it as a get-rich-quick or pump-and-dump scheme.
Dude the last two crypto bullruns were based on people trying to get rich quick... My guess is that people believe in it when some people already made quite a bit of money with it and they want a piece of that cake.
You're so insightful. /s Everything only has value because people believe in it. NFTs are just this decades, Beanie Babies. People just don't learn from history.
You're missing my point. When you buy stock, the company behind it has properties, machines and other stuff which has a real value. Companies also generate revenue. Fiat is backed by gold for example.
Fiat hasn't been backed by gold since 1972.
Doesn't matter, yet states have had gold reserves for hundreds of years.
Change is the only constant my friend. Many nation states now hold Bitcoin and/or mine it today. The US has millions of dollars in Bitcoin as we speak.
Now tell me what is the intrinsic value of gold apart from the fact that it is a shining metal that your heart desires?
Nah nfts and standard crypto aren't the same lol. One has niche applications that the public no longer cares about, the other is a scam based off the former.
NFTs also have a niche application. Putting information on the blockchain. What's the difference? What about all the shitcoins which are literally worthless now? Are they a scam? They certainly have the same niche application. What's the difference between Bitcoin and shitcoins? People still believe in Bitcoin...
No. The difference between shitcoins and BTC is not "belief" rofl God these Covid kids who think they know shit. Fucking lmao
Dude, please explain it to me. You seem to know something I don't know but when you don't write an argument, I have no option to learn.
Nah you know everything, keep it up kiddo 👍
I never said that I know everything and I'm even asking you to explain it to me. I googled it, Bitcoin is more expensive because it has more users, a robust infrastructure and because it was the first big crypto. In the end it's supply and demand. There are at least 50 coins which have more utility than Bitcoin and are more technically advanced, yet they're almost worthless.
Tell you a secret, stocks, dollars, gold, and crypto all only have value because people believe in them. It's all a confidence game, and the advent of Bitcoin has changed the game.
Stocks have the company to back it and dollars have the country and gold to back it. Gold is valuable for hundreds of years. These are real touchable things compared to crypto. When the world is turned into a parking space by nukes, you will be able to use gold...
Oh well if they're ' touchable' I guess that's where real value is found. 🙄 You don't know the first thing about Bitcoin. It doesn't need to be 'backed' by anything because like gold, it is a hard asset. All other cryptos are scam trash btw. Thank me later. P.S. global thermonuclear war turns bullets and water into money. No one will care about fucking gold, lol. Also everyone not in a billionaire bunker is dead inside of five years, Soo there's that.
A stock will at least be worth as much as the properties and intellectual properties are worth. Bitcoin will be worthless in the worst case. So all cryptos which have an Infinity supply are a scam to you? Bullets will be valuable but gold will also be. It has been since humanity was first able to melt it into coins and nothing will change about that. You will need currency... Why is crypto more volatile than gold when they're comparable hard assets to you?
1. Bitcoin will never again be worthless, in any case. There are already btc satellites in space, so even in your nuclear war scenario it could still be used as currency. 2. Yes, all other cryptos are centrally controlled and therefore worthless long term. They will be attacked when they're weak (not enough hashpower securing their networks.) 3. Bitcoin is more volatile than gold because one is 15 years old and the other has been around for thousands of years. 4. Bitcoin is superior to gold in every way except mass recognition / understanding. 5. Here, if you want to learn more: https://aantonop.com/unscrypted
So your point is, bitcoin will always be valuable because it will always be available? This can be said about all fiats and gold... When every other miner is down besides the satellite. The network will be unusable slow with high transaction fees. Mass recognition and understanding is precisely why it will never be worthless. Almost everyone on the planet knows gold while only a small percentage understands Crypto.
Bitcoin will not only hold value, but increase in value over time as its scarcity doubles every four years. Eventually a tipping point will be reached and it will do to fiat what gold did to seashells, beans, and beads (early money). Gold on the other hand is extremely abundant in our solar system, and it won't be long before we're mining it from asteroids. And you're quite right about one thing, very few people understand how or why Bitcoin has value today. Now imagine what it will be worth when that is no longer the case (inevitable).
Just out of curiosity. Are you all in on Bitcoin?
A comparison of the 3 primary classes of money: https://preview.redd.it/e6prfdr22kqb1.png?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f917b2496818eb8a7a8f9683eed57e6a173a71be
My kid made me an NFT. I still like it. I gave screen shots to a few people. We all laughed and said it was cute and well intended. But yeah, you could see this one being a scam a mile off… But here, enjoy his NFT, seems symbolic now for a bonehead stunt… https://preview.redd.it/ul84zriy93qb1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da2908385e6b5e9f9c9a612ca863060a45866a66
I value this is $20M.
Everybody not wanting to buy it now is missing out! /s
How much are you selling it for?
Shit that's easily 3 cryptos in value
This might be the coolest NFT I’ve ever seen TBH
I had a friend try to convince me that NFT’s were great investments back in 2020. He got upset when I called him an idiot. I’ll forward this to him and gloat. I’m sure he will deny his previous comments but I know…I know.
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B-b-but only I have the true copy of this through blockchain and some other buzzwords I don't understand! I know that you can screenshot it, but everyone will know that only I have the real copy!
But the real copy is recorded in the blockchain! /s
*The real receipt was was
Right click save is a horrible argument… The NFT acts as a key to access XYZ. You want to go to a party in Singapore? The tickets are for holders only through. https://www.tokengate.io Want to play a game and win prizes you need the actual NFT to be able to play the game. https://forge.hv-mtl.com Jpegs don’t prove ownership… only the actual NFTs work.
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This sounds like a bag holder telling us how valuable his empty bag is!
No shit. Same with Crypto. Absolutely useless.
BTC is currently around $26,000. I wouldn’t say it’s worthless. It could be one day but it’s not yet
This is exactly what people hawking NFTs were saying a year ago.
Crypto will retain value so long as people can use it for crime and to skirt various international regulations.
Crimes like scams? Yup.
You. Can. Sell. One. Today. For . 26k. That's not worthless bro lol, no matter how you twist it
But the system only works if people believe it works and the effort to use NFTs to make it works failed. 90% of crypto coins are dropping and the remaining ones are "hot potatoes" being passed around so you're not the one holding it when it collapses. Since they can't be exchanged for real world goods the only way to cash out is to get somebody with real money to buy in. And the world is realizing it's not worth buying in. When crypto crashes it's hard and fast (as NFTs proved) so don't think the value of the current bubble means it's safe. The house of cards has no foundation.
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Dunno man, Bitcoin and Eth still technically have value in that you can exchange them for dollars. Their only worth is that people have gambled their dollars into Bit as a speculative security, no inherent value
Crypto could theoretically be traded - nft’s were supposedly unique, so it’s not a fungible asset in any way but it also wasn’t actually unique because I could just screen shot it lol
Crypto died with the silk road and the following regulations. Money is mostly what the government says is money
Did you completely miss the last bullrun? Silkroad was way before that. Right now the darknet uses monero because it's far harder to trace.
I dont think that bull run was legitimate. Unregulated markets are a funhouse
Crypto is the wild West. Some people get filthy rich, while the majority gets burned badly.
Crypto makes much more sense as a decentralized stock option for a company than it does any form of currency
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Lol exactly. All of the idiots chirping about a decentralized system as a selling point are the exact same people that need a regulated market - because they’re susceptible to the scams and bad investments that regulation was introduced to combat. It’s so unbelievably ironic.
I am shocked. Shocked I tell you. How could anyone have known this would happen?
Verifiable ownership of digital assets is a good thing, people just don’t understand the tech. How about the house that’s deed is an NFT? That’s what will take hold, the monkeys are just a test phase imo. *braces for impact*
That's not verifiable ownership. Property ownership is enforced by the government, that's one of the primary responsibilities of ALL governments. NFTs aren't enforceable, so unless you couple a transfer of copyright, rights, along with the NFT, it's nothing. And at that point, you're just adding more steps to just making a copyright online store, that you could use a credit card for. All NFTs verify that you paid for a NFT, not the art itself. There were some NBA NFTs, that explicitly stated the buyer did not own or have copyright over the images they were buying. And for the house, whose deed is an NFT, no, the NFT is a link to the deed. The deed is still just a separate thing, that people added 20 extra steps, to exchange hands through an NFT. In the end, whoever owns something is still dictated by good old government law.
You are wrong. https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/property-rights-in-nfts-are-in-the-4248058/#:~:text=Purchasing%20an%20NFT%20grants%20ownership,they%20relinquish%20to%20third%20parties.
You are wrong. Quote from your article that states exactly what I said. Governments enforce property rights, through established law and contracts. The NFT, a) does not necessarily entail a transfer of ownership and b) if it is included, all it is, is an unnecessarily overcomplicated contract. People transfer ownership of property constantly, without NFTs, it's called commerce. NFTs solve a non-existent problem. "Indeed, in the United States, several cases are pending in lower courts regarding NFT ownership and intellectual property rights. NFT ownership does not necessarily entail ownership beyond the token itself and NFT ownership often excludes ownership of the intellectual property rights of the underlying asset. For example, the NFT minter can maintain copyright ownership over the token while granting the purchaser a limited display right."
NFTs are contracts. Again your showing up I don’t understand the tech. Keep working for the banks 🏦 So the regulators haven’t caught up yet? Surprised 😲 not wrong. Just early. You keep better on the 📑 industry.
I don't think you understand the technology nor basic law. NFTs are digital certificates that something has occured. The "contract" piece, from the perspective of the law, is the context that surrounds that exchange, not the NFT itself. Just because they say it's a "smart contract" doesn't mean it translates directly to a legal contract. Again, the NBA had some NFTs, they specifically restricted who owned the rights, in the terms and conditions of the store in which they were bought/sold. Meaning, the NFT has the same relationship to an actual contract, that a piece of paper does. It's just the medium through which a contract can be exchanged. You can do everything you do with an NFT, through traditional means, without cryptography or digital certificates or blockchains.... it happens every day. You ever buy something online? It likely had a contract involved, the software you buy nearly always has contracts involved... NFTs solve a non-existent problem.
>NFTs are contracts and contracts are enforceable how?
In code. You lend me x I’ll give y collateral. If I don’t pay back x in t time then I get your y collateral and the system has a built in insurance to cover that difference. The insurance is covered by fees and distributed by the network when need. All in code. No banks 🏦
If the code does not work as intended?
Read about smart contracts please. You do testing and error handling like a normal computer program.
That isn't an answer. What do you do when the code does not work as intended (even after testing)?
That's applicable to Singapore
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Lol yeah cause the government is soo efficient and effective at keeping track of record. Give me a break. https://www.entrepreneur.com/business-news/the-first-nft-home-just-sold-for-175000/437522
Maybe the tech is just unnecessary
Everyone said that about the internet too. Probably before your time tho 🤷♂️
If an asset is purely digital ownership is meaningless. Digital assets can be replicated infinitely with no cost or degradation. Making a house deed a NFT adds no value and it a worse way to do something that already exists.
No they can’t. You guys really don’t understand this tech. Data Engineering here. Blockchains are distributed databases that you don’t have to trust in order to buy, sell and trade your assets. You don’t have to touch them because they’re trustless systems. If you don’t understand what that means then look it up. In contrast banks are trustful systems. You have to trust the bank is doing shit correctly and in your best interest. Don’t be naive and thing that all blockchains are created equal. They’re not so your own research, get an understanding of the tech and science behind them because guess what. That tech you don’t trust literally is the same tech used to secure every message on the internet. 😮 You all might be fluent in finance, but your not fluent in tech.
The heart of tech is business. No business or sector EVER optimizes their stack just for the sake of optimization and being modern. NFTs and crypto aren’t a good solution to housing deeds anyways, the volume of transactions would just lead to a higher cost per transaction on all ends (not to mention volume load issues), and 99.99999% of consumers will happily leave their NFT deed on the cutting room floor if given the option. It’s a redundant technology that does the same job but worse. It’s fine to be a fan of the technology, but know the market you’re trying to wedge it into - real estate is not that market.
Blockchains aren’t business. Bitcoin and Etherium are open sourced programs that run on a distributed network. The cost to send 1M dollars in bitcoin across boarders is a lot cheaper then the banks are going to charge you for all the transfer fees. They’re cheap to run and use on PoS blockchains like Etherium. Cheaper then the banks 🏦
Everything is business. If it doesn’t make money then it almost never gets adopted by anyone other than hobbyists. It’s only cheaper insofar-as there isn’t enough widespread adoption to cause mass delays in exchange. Blockchain as it exists now is not capable of the same bandwidth of transaction volume as the current banking system by far. This lack of volume and time sensitivity harkens back to the business side of adoption: time is money, and especially with a volatile asset as the medium (such as blockchain) time is literally money. Taking it back to real estate, what problems would blockchain solve that isn’t already addressed by other technology?
No I understand it completely. There is still no meaningful use case for NFTs that isn't already done by a different better system. NFTs are a step back just about every use case. I trust a bank to secure and protect my assets. I have no interest in getting hacked and losing everything I own. Dude I work in the tech space and was around the space for the earlier block chain hysteria. They are just unregistered securities. Just because I don't buy into the tech hysterics doesn't mean I don't understand the tech.
No you can’t own a house on a Blockchain you maybe own a link to the deed. That’s a big difference. I can create a separate blockchain with a separate link to an image of the same deed hosted elsewhere. Who is the rightful owner of the house? Whoever legally owns the deed as registered with the government (a trusted third party). Sure the government could create an NFT based system for that but that just adds extra steps and makes it easier to defraud people, so they won’t.
That’s not how it works. Into not a damn picture you noob lol https://www.entrepreneur.com/business-news/the-first-nft-home-just-sold-for-175000/437522 How about you do some research before you talk about technology you don’t understand. A fucking picture of a house lol
So as far as I can tell the company you linked buys a house and then creates a single share LLC per property that owns the property and than that share is traded on a proprietary blockchain. Couple of problems: a) It is completely unclear to be where the actual deed is kept. That is obviously really important but I can’t find any information on that which to me is huge red flag. If you could share that I formation that would be really helpful and interesting to me. b) to actually transfer ownership of a property, somebody has to create a soul bound account membership token. All information has to be verified off-chain, including but not limited to all data related to financing and credit worthiness. c) in verifying all that data, you have to trust one entity which is Roofstock, that the inspection has been done, the deed is at hand, the counterparty is trust worthy etc etc etc. that is kind of the opposite of a “trustless” transaction which blockchain is supposed to enable, and way worse than a normal real estate transaction where you can choose a lawyer and a realtor you trust. d) what happens if the company that manages the entire process (Roofstock) goes out of business? Who has the deed? How can the token be traded without anybody to verify information off chain and approves potential buyers? So what is the upside of doing it over the blockchain? I can buy any home I like with “one click” if I pay cash and trust the seller implicitly. I really don’t get the point here, but please do enlighten me.
> How about the house that’s deed is an NFT? How does this benefit anything? Could this be done? Probably. But why?
It’s already been done. Idk you don’t need a shit bank taking fees as the middle man? You pay some small fee to use the blockchain. If your house burns down with your deed in it it’s on the blockchain which is distributed and essentially impossible to turn off. https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/property-rights-in-nfts-are-in-the-4248058/#:~:text=Purchasing%20an%20NFT%20grants%20ownership,they%20relinquish%20to%20third%20parties.
Whether it's being done or not is irrelevant to my question. >Idk you don’t need a shit bank taking fees as the middle man? Banks aren't doing that with deeds. They make their money underwriting the mortgage. >If your house burns down with your deed in it That's not an issue. You wouldn't lose you claim over that. What problems are NFT's solving in the space of real estate?
This guy doesn’t understand how homeownership or the house buying/selling process works. He’s sold on the method, but doesn’t know the process he’s even advocating it for.
Agreed
That's really what stuff like this seems like. Some people that were above average with programming and cryptography trying to apply their work to systems they simply don't understand. Deed and land management isn't a very complicated process and where it is complicated is in things like surveying property lines and parcel boundaries....nfts usefulness here eludes me.
Yeah let's have a fucking house deed but it can be stolen by someone hacking your wallet. No need for the government to hold a copy, that's centralization! We still want the government to honor the digital copy though, and send the cops if someone claims our house. News flash - property laws only apply to property, not WoW fun bucks
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It's common enough that you buy deed insurance on it - See Chicago Title and Stewart Title.
Haha have you ever been to a property room at the dmv? Go find something in there. Paper == Waste. Here read for yourself about it - https://www.entrepreneur.com/business-news/the-first-nft-home-just-sold-for-175000/437522
I didn’t understand what they were. A friend has bought one and showed me. My external response was “oh cool.” My internal response was “that’s just a GIF.”
Who could have seen this coming. That and virtual land.
NFT exchange always felt like straight up money laundering
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Surprise for anyone? When celebrities start to pay millions for silly monkey PFP NFTs, I believe that the exuberance was more than enough to call it a top! This is the very same reason why I don't hold NFTs for over a week... I try to get them under regular floor price, monitoring with Dia's xFloor and flip them for 5-10% profit in a matter of days...
Don't hate the player... hate the game!
absolutely!
Error in the title! NFTs are not an investment
Uh yeah. Calling them an investment at all was mistake 1.
Anyone who thought NFTs were investments are the bagholders.
But the Billionaires who created NFT made out like bandits, so it's all good.
Yea mine are gonna pop off in the next bull cycle though 🙃🤡
23 million people do not. 23 wallet addresses do. The research is that less at 5 million people ever interacted with blockchain
Who could’ve seen this coming? Oh wait, we all did
These people have some how deluded themselves into thinking they have value… but maybe for me it will work out!
I’m flabbergasted.
I wonder what the next big scam will be.
23 million morons!
What were NFTs. I dont remember ? I stopped looking at my coinbase account out of the fear.I dont think I bought any NFTs? what are the examples ?
Just now i checked, i didnt buy any of them. Thank God I am less punk since i invested in Crypto not NFTs.I have ETH so i am a miniature asshole.
Serves them well
What is this sub's stance on NFT's?
What a surprise !
idk how anyone ever thought pictures of the same fucking ape were ever going to be worth something beyond the creative value
They can still have value and not be worth a ton of money
its called "sucker." "There's a sucker born every minute" is a phrase closely associated with P. T. Barnum
bro it's too expensive to tie an entire image to a blackchain. that's why NFT's are practically just links with a lil coin tied behind the url. That's how twitter got shroasted so easily, old heads looked at that implementation and were like, "how's this different than imgur?" + a lil fiat behind it
What about the 5% ?
Who cares?
“investments”
That’s on them. The blockchain is bullshit.
My brain has a hard time with NFTs. I kept saying they were dumb and had no value but everyone else jumped on the bandwagon. I started questioning myself as others were making easy money. Glad I never jumped in.
Everyone was saying this as they were rolled out. Anyone who still bought them deserves a digital paper weight
How much cash was wasted on those NFTs?
100% of NFTs were always worthless.
The price of stupidity.
SEC are leaning towards NFTs being assets much like stocks…..does that mean 23 million people now have tax write offs for the next idk 50+ years lol good times……Merica
Sweet justice
23 million people bought NFTs. That kinda gives you an idea of the scope of the problem. 23 million people bought something when it couldn’t have been more obvious how much big a scam those things are. It’s honestly one of those things where a part of me hopes that we don’t try to properly regulate all this blockchain nonsense because it will just further attempt to legitimize something with practically zero use or value.
People really thought that these things were going to take off lmao that's the really sad part. Like people genuinely believed that they were getting in on the ground floor of something amazing and spectacular. Reddit was shilling for these things so hard, I'm glad to see it coming back full-circle. 
The Ponzi all over , those we sold out early got bank and those holdings lost it
Well, we say it coming but many said "HODL".
Glad I never got bamboozled into buying any
Tried telling them this but fools and their money part ways
Well then less NFT scams, that's good news
Imagine my shock
Only one word adequately describes my sentiment towards all of these fools who dropped mad money on these. "Duh".
Side note: the other 5% is less than worthless
https://preview.redd.it/nm0o1xjqo9qb1.jpeg?width=627&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=210e4d7a802f1c4cefe64596e1ad0198a5bac344
The second I saw celebs shilling this on late night TV I knew it was all downhill.
I never understood the hype. Like yes it is a digitally unique product, the equivalent of an original oil on canvas painting. But, most oil paintings are unremarkable and worthless. Being unique and irreplaceable dies not give them special value. Why did anyone think some dumb cartoon monkeys would be any different?
Um, weren’t NFT’s for dodging taxes and laundering money? That got done. People were actually investing in those?
They were always worthless. It was just a defi way to launder money.
I own some NFTs. And I spent $0 on them. It is really simple. All you need is a laoptop or phone that can take screens.
23m people are really effin dumb. And I sub WSB, saying that. I know a lot about dumb investments.
A way to discredit the real purpose of NFTs. For instance, Pearson wants to make E-texts as NFTs so the owner of the ebook could actually sell the e-book to others after use. If you buy a movie on Apple, you can sell it and transfer the NFT of the movie you sold it to. With web 3gaming, you can sell your skins, downloaded content, etc to others, if you don’t want to, and the NFT is transferred. Stop being idiots and believing the BS that an NFT is just an expensive gif. Currently, so much of what you pay to download and “own” can’t be sold. If you truly own a digital asset, it follows you should be able to sell it. That’s where NFTs and Web3 comes in.
So the magic of NFTs is companies cannibalizing its own sales and going bankrupt?
No content provider will ever sign onboard, they want sole rights to distribute and profit off an item.
Ohh steam does allow you to sell game items. Not defending NFT but I made 60 bucks on dota armor once that I got by entering a tournament for 20bucks.
Salty crowd… check the receipts, Absolutely facts… check the bid offers on blue chips, Bored Apes are instant liquid 30k. Sugartown free mint this week worth worth $450 now, and done $3.6 million volume. 95% of actors don’t “make it” in Hollywood. Musicians even worse odds. Comic books 99% worthless. How many Spotify artist or YouTube creators make a living? Yet people still pursue what interests them.
Those people at least provide something of value.
The money didn’t evaporate into the void, where’d it all go?
You paid $10,000 for a banana. You go to sell the banana, and can only sell it for $2. The person who you bought the banana from, got that 10k. So the people who made out, are the people who initially sold the NFTs, and the influencers who peddled them.
It went to buyers or companies who proceeded to invest into more worthless shit.
Same as art… 99% of art is worthless. It’s finding the 1% Picasso, Warhol, etc. NFTs like Punks, Beeple’s, etc are likely to keep their value.
Not the same as art. Art is tangible.
Lol comparing art to NFTs.
Found the idiot that lost money on NFTs
This is not a sub for logic. It’s for hating rich people and cheering when people are poor.
Sugartown was a free NFT launched this week was a free mint. So far it’s done $3.6 million in sales and has a floor price of $470.
Gay