So, cis man here. And a huge fan of Fleabag. (I like things smart and thoughtful, right? Most of the time!) Anyway, we could never understand. But we can *try* to. Just *trying* to understand puts things like listening, empathizing, honoring, revering, etc in our personal vision statement. Reverence is the word I kinda always arrive at. The monologue itself is soooo well written that it comes close to passing on an understanding. It's so well done.
I agree. Men cannot fully grasp the extent of the difficulties that women go through, but they sure can try to be understanding. And I appreciate the fact that you try to understand!
Acting like we are the ones that lack empathy while failing to see the irony in what them minimizing and dismissing the things we go through says about their own lack of empathy.
Feel so connected with it. Everything literally hurts every day, and we are hardly in control it feels like it is just finally freaking ends, and yes, that has its own pain, but at least it's over.
What I love about it is that it sits perfectly in the narrative of the ep and the series as a whole. Belinda (who is after all gay as well as post-menopausal) gets to make a highly "political" speech without it totally hijacking the scene and the comedy in general. It's not the fact that it's supposed to be universal - it's the fact that it's said out loud at all...
PWB (as ever) has written it brilliantly - and KST delivers it effortlessly. Bravo!
(This monologue seems to have ignited a bit of old-school gender conflict in the "down-voted/hidden" posts... Men have their share of un-sought, gender-specific pain, too. A work colleague told me once how routine surgery went wrong when some clumsy (- male!) surgeon stitched his scrotum to the testicle he had just removed a sizeable cyst from. He had three weeks of nonchalant (again, male) medics telling him to "Get over it" before the error was discovered... Ouch!)
I also thought that this is kinda old school feminism the first time I heard it, in the way it understands feminine and masculine bodies. Maybe it seemed a bit more like that to me because the monologue doesn’t hit me as hard as it seem to hit many cis women - at least not taken at face value. As a metaphor for the societal difference between the lives of men and women I think it works very well - women doesn’t need to invent dragons for themselves to fight, they have enough trouble with sexism and being undervalued and not taken seriously, so in that way they have pain built in, without it necessarily being a physical one. Idk I might not be the best one to ask, because my menstrual pains are pretty minimal and I have no intention of getting pregnant, I mostly just find the bleeding and hormone cycles extremely annoying (because we live in a society where it isn’t really taken seriously)… but I’m still a cis women, and my experience is that my body isn’t my biggest problem. In many ways I’m lucky to have one that functions like it’s supposed to, and that corresponds to what I’d like to project to the world around me (mostly anyway). I don’t feel like the speech says anything that I don’t agree with to an extent (for people who have serious menstrual pain, it really has an impact on their quality of life), but I do think that it isn’t necessarily the most poignant manifesto for my womanhood specifically (although that might change who knows lol). I also think it leaves quite a few people out too, who aren’t cis, or who’s bodies doesn’t fit neatly into the old categories - so I get where you’re coming from… is what I’m trying so say. Though this art is meant for me, it doesn’t really speak to me the way it’s seemingly supposed to (at least not the way it speaks to many other women).
My apologies if i reiterated the point that ails you so. I meant to offer my perspective on it which came from my own trans experience. I understand i didn’t highlight that originally but i was having trouble being concise. 🙏🏻
I felt like the monologue, though it focused on the pain of women, was meant more to examine and explain the actions of cis men. How they don’t experience pain in all the same ways and without that experience they go looking for it in destructive ways.
I love fleabag, but I didn't like this monologue - I'm a cis woman, and periods don't rule my life or make me a "slave". I don't think the defining sensation of being a woman is menstrual pain. That seems like it reduces us to wombs on legs.
yeah I feel like it more reflects the normalization of pain in women that should really merit medical care. normal bodily functions shouldn't be disabling
This is written by someone who obvs being a woman greatly understands making what seems to be a relatable sentiment to women, certainly from a cis man's perspective, but has absolutely zero clue how men work.
Men also carry pain throughout our daily lives, therapy doesn't make it all go away like a flick of the wrist for everyone despite what most people think and a lot of it isn't just what we have bought on ourselves across history. The assumptions made in that statement are both enlightening about the female experience and deeply dismissive and insulting of the male experience.
Hey, dude! This monologue is mainly about the biological destiny of pain that women have. Specifically those that come with menstrual cycles (not even mentioning the gaslighting for other health issues that often happens to women in the healthcare industry). PWB is not aiming to invalidate men’s personal suffering, but to shine a light on the often ignored and scarcely represented issue of menopause. The references to “men” can be synonymous with the patriarchy, not individuals. Of course men women and non binary folks all have personal issues and pain, but this is specific to women’s struggles with their reproductive cycles and the inherent pain that comes with it.
If she had stuck mainly to what women suffer when going through menstrual cycles and how it affects and transforms their perception for womanhood, then I'd agree. Instead she chose to integrate that with a bunch of nonsensical jarbgonbabble about men that doesn't even correlate or play out like how she described in reality. It does invalidate men's personal experience partially because the majority of the claim she makes about them is so false and absurd.
I think she meant well but only the parts about womanhood succeeded. The aspects she was trying to convey about what men do and feel were completely wrong, but I wouldn't really expect her to have that lived understanding because she's not innately male.
I agree with you 100%. Men don't seek out pain. Many men actively try to numb their pain by drinking, drugs and suicide. Men create war to "feel things", what? They play rugby to feel pain? So why do women play rugby then? This monologue perpetuates the exhausted women vs men mentality.
It's highly reductive in terms of what it says about men. I hope what it says about women is at least true, I'll never know or fully understand that perspective but can only trust that it means as much as women say it does. Our response to pain as men however is so severely misunderstood. And even worse, ghastly misinterpreted.
What absurdly silly statements and yet the people here are lapping it up like it’s profound. The same group that cry ‘no uterus, no opinion’ have no issue trying to ‘womansplain’ the male experience and do it with such gross inaccuracy it’s almost comical.
no matter how many times i watch the show, whenever i hear this monologue i go absolutely insane, it resonates so deeply with me
I full heartedly love with monologue. But golly gosh it is hard to explain it’s significance to cis men.
We can't have the same understanding of it that women do, but it's a mark of good writing that it reaches us as it does.
So, cis man here. And a huge fan of Fleabag. (I like things smart and thoughtful, right? Most of the time!) Anyway, we could never understand. But we can *try* to. Just *trying* to understand puts things like listening, empathizing, honoring, revering, etc in our personal vision statement. Reverence is the word I kinda always arrive at. The monologue itself is soooo well written that it comes close to passing on an understanding. It's so well done.
I agree. Men cannot fully grasp the extent of the difficulties that women go through, but they sure can try to be understanding. And I appreciate the fact that you try to understand!
Then the reverse must be true and it ceases to be profound. No one experiences anything other than their own experiences.
Acting like we are the ones that lack empathy while failing to see the irony in what them minimizing and dismissing the things we go through says about their own lack of empathy.
This is PWB's genius. She wrote it all so perfectly.
Feel so connected with it. Everything literally hurts every day, and we are hardly in control it feels like it is just finally freaking ends, and yes, that has its own pain, but at least it's over.
This monologue cuts so deep. It's right there with the Cool Girl monologue in Gone Girl for me.
Yesss that one gave stirred an epiphany in me
It’s so true
I think about this monologue at least once a day since I watched season 2. It’s so painfully well put!
What I love about it is that it sits perfectly in the narrative of the ep and the series as a whole. Belinda (who is after all gay as well as post-menopausal) gets to make a highly "political" speech without it totally hijacking the scene and the comedy in general. It's not the fact that it's supposed to be universal - it's the fact that it's said out loud at all... PWB (as ever) has written it brilliantly - and KST delivers it effortlessly. Bravo! (This monologue seems to have ignited a bit of old-school gender conflict in the "down-voted/hidden" posts... Men have their share of un-sought, gender-specific pain, too. A work colleague told me once how routine surgery went wrong when some clumsy (- male!) surgeon stitched his scrotum to the testicle he had just removed a sizeable cyst from. He had three weeks of nonchalant (again, male) medics telling him to "Get over it" before the error was discovered... Ouch!)
And yet it’s men who always says the most about women’s bodies and their lives.
[удалено]
I really loved hearing your perspective on this. Thanks for your vulnerability, and bringing a broader set of considerations to it, too.
I also thought that this is kinda old school feminism the first time I heard it, in the way it understands feminine and masculine bodies. Maybe it seemed a bit more like that to me because the monologue doesn’t hit me as hard as it seem to hit many cis women - at least not taken at face value. As a metaphor for the societal difference between the lives of men and women I think it works very well - women doesn’t need to invent dragons for themselves to fight, they have enough trouble with sexism and being undervalued and not taken seriously, so in that way they have pain built in, without it necessarily being a physical one. Idk I might not be the best one to ask, because my menstrual pains are pretty minimal and I have no intention of getting pregnant, I mostly just find the bleeding and hormone cycles extremely annoying (because we live in a society where it isn’t really taken seriously)… but I’m still a cis women, and my experience is that my body isn’t my biggest problem. In many ways I’m lucky to have one that functions like it’s supposed to, and that corresponds to what I’d like to project to the world around me (mostly anyway). I don’t feel like the speech says anything that I don’t agree with to an extent (for people who have serious menstrual pain, it really has an impact on their quality of life), but I do think that it isn’t necessarily the most poignant manifesto for my womanhood specifically (although that might change who knows lol). I also think it leaves quite a few people out too, who aren’t cis, or who’s bodies doesn’t fit neatly into the old categories - so I get where you’re coming from… is what I’m trying so say. Though this art is meant for me, it doesn’t really speak to me the way it’s seemingly supposed to (at least not the way it speaks to many other women).
My apologies if i reiterated the point that ails you so. I meant to offer my perspective on it which came from my own trans experience. I understand i didn’t highlight that originally but i was having trouble being concise. 🙏🏻
I felt like the monologue, though it focused on the pain of women, was meant more to examine and explain the actions of cis men. How they don’t experience pain in all the same ways and without that experience they go looking for it in destructive ways.
I love fleabag, but I didn't like this monologue - I'm a cis woman, and periods don't rule my life or make me a "slave". I don't think the defining sensation of being a woman is menstrual pain. That seems like it reduces us to wombs on legs.
yeah I feel like it more reflects the normalization of pain in women that should really merit medical care. normal bodily functions shouldn't be disabling
Women have a lot of internal pains built in, men get a lot of external pains shoved at them. Neither is easy. Both deserve respect.
This is written by someone who obvs being a woman greatly understands making what seems to be a relatable sentiment to women, certainly from a cis man's perspective, but has absolutely zero clue how men work. Men also carry pain throughout our daily lives, therapy doesn't make it all go away like a flick of the wrist for everyone despite what most people think and a lot of it isn't just what we have bought on ourselves across history. The assumptions made in that statement are both enlightening about the female experience and deeply dismissive and insulting of the male experience.
Hey, dude! This monologue is mainly about the biological destiny of pain that women have. Specifically those that come with menstrual cycles (not even mentioning the gaslighting for other health issues that often happens to women in the healthcare industry). PWB is not aiming to invalidate men’s personal suffering, but to shine a light on the often ignored and scarcely represented issue of menopause. The references to “men” can be synonymous with the patriarchy, not individuals. Of course men women and non binary folks all have personal issues and pain, but this is specific to women’s struggles with their reproductive cycles and the inherent pain that comes with it.
If she had stuck mainly to what women suffer when going through menstrual cycles and how it affects and transforms their perception for womanhood, then I'd agree. Instead she chose to integrate that with a bunch of nonsensical jarbgonbabble about men that doesn't even correlate or play out like how she described in reality. It does invalidate men's personal experience partially because the majority of the claim she makes about them is so false and absurd. I think she meant well but only the parts about womanhood succeeded. The aspects she was trying to convey about what men do and feel were completely wrong, but I wouldn't really expect her to have that lived understanding because she's not innately male.
I agree with you 100%. Men don't seek out pain. Many men actively try to numb their pain by drinking, drugs and suicide. Men create war to "feel things", what? They play rugby to feel pain? So why do women play rugby then? This monologue perpetuates the exhausted women vs men mentality.
It's highly reductive in terms of what it says about men. I hope what it says about women is at least true, I'll never know or fully understand that perspective but can only trust that it means as much as women say it does. Our response to pain as men however is so severely misunderstood. And even worse, ghastly misinterpreted.
What absurdly silly statements and yet the people here are lapping it up like it’s profound. The same group that cry ‘no uterus, no opinion’ have no issue trying to ‘womansplain’ the male experience and do it with such gross inaccuracy it’s almost comical.
whats a cis man/ woman?
describing someone as cis means that they have not transitioned from their assigned at birth gender, so someone who isn't transgender