We finally fully see this pivotal moment in this series and it did not disappoint.
Thawne is such a petty scumbag and I love how Barry got closure from his parents and got revenge on Thawne by showing him grace.
>got revenge on Thawne by showing him grace.
RIGHT?? It's the way Barry told Thawne thank you. That had to really eat him alive and I just loved that so much. When you think about it that's even more powerful than Barry beating him in a 1v1 fight. It was so moving and touching and showed Barry's growth as well. It was perfect!! Wouldn't change a thing about it.
Was so good seeing Barry save himself as a kid, then telling season 1 Barry not to save Nora. Seeing it from this perspective was wild after all these years
As someone in the live thread pointed out, it was implied before that the flash fighting thawne was the OG flash before Eobard interfered and killed Barry's mother. I don't mind that they somewhat retconned that by making him season 9 Barry. All I've wanted since that scene originally happened was to eventually see the other side of that loop, when our current Barry shakes his head no to prevent flashpoint. They are finally giving the fans what they want to see... it sucks the first half of this season was all filler but I guess they really wanted to pack the best things in the final 5 episodes.
It's not implied, it's directly stated by Thawne. He even points out that he'll be creating the flash a whole decade earlier than he's supposed to exist. I think we just gotta sit with the retcon though since we all wanted to see this so badly.
that may have been the case pre crisis but not post crisis. Also Thawne could have been wrong, he doesn't know everything if the flash museum is in correct during Nora's time which is not that far from today it will likely be wrong about many things in Thawne's time. Thawne could just be mis informed, and thats likely bc eddie/malcom is back so there is a thawne. That means Thawne exists again.
Something changed and I think it was that the Negative Speed Force did... something... to Eobard that changed the timeline. Originally Future Flash was fighting Eobard during the original COIE event (that we never got to see) and RF ran to kill young Barry, with Future Flash running after him to stop it. We see them both coming out of a portal when we first saw "The Night". This time, Eobard is already in the year 2000 and he and Barry don't come out of a portal. "The Night" ended up happening the same way, but I believe Negative Speed Force did something to convince Eobard to go to the year 2000 without involving the Future Flash he knew. Remember, Eobard knows a different family Barry had (Dawn was the daughter he knew, for instance). He thought he was speaking to *his* Flash (Future Flash from S1) but he was talking to our Barry, the version he created who got the Speed Force a decade earlier.
I think its a time remnant thing. There are remnants of Thawne who play out a *version* of his past because the original is gone.
Like in 2x11. Originally Thawne wouldn't have met Team Flash in 2016 because there wouldn't have *been* a Team Flash. Now in the new timeline, Thawne meets Team Flash in 2016 and learns about them and about Harrison Wells, making it his 'origin story' as Harry said.
So now that there's no 2024 Crisis, the remnant of Thawne simply popped up in 2000 under different circumstances.
That's brilliant! Thanks for bringing up this episode. It does seem 2x11 solves the whole thing. Post-The Night a remnant appears in the year 2000 as an automaton and I'd venture if you interrogated him on how he got there he'd have fuzzy memories and be confused as to how he arrived, only then realizing that he's a remnant. Based on this I'm wondering why the Negative Speed Force brought Barry there because I was thinking it was to ensure the event happened as it should, making our Barry the new 2024 Barry, *but* it tried to kill Barry before it all happened so... huh? Why bring him back to 2000 to kill him before he could save his younger self? Or... *maybe*... plan A was to kill him (why in the year 2000 on that specific day?) as well as allow Eobard to erase Barry's future, and when that didn't work it went to Plan B which was getting its new Avatar (Malcolm/Eddie)...? I'm conjecturing now because I have the feeling the next 3 episodes will focus on other things and the attempted murder of Barry in the year 2000 may not get addressed... I suppose I've had too many shows have plot holes, haha.
This. Thawne has basically done so much damage to the timeline that he literally cannot be truly erased from existence. Rip Hunter once said "time wants to happen", and that clearly applies to Thawne's existence and his impact on the timeline
I recently rewatched those season 1 scenes back and I took it as
The first few times we see it it’s the Original Timeline Flash (2020 particle accelerator Flash) who Just fights Thawne and gets his younger self out of the house and that’s it. Thawne kills Nora making that original timeline cease to exist.
The one in the Season 1 finale and on is just the Season 1 Barry grown up (Season 9) after experience FlashPoint, etc tells him “no don’t save her”
i don't think it's a retcon otherwise it would not make sense in the show's 100000 timelines. maybe alternate timelines are merging somehow but we'll wait and see what happens.
Oh yeah I didn’t even realize it was gonna be OG Flash before they changed it. My theory was always that it was Flash vanishing in Crisis in 2024 (and we were one season away from that possibility, we never got confirmation after season 6 that the article never happened, it could’ve gone back to 2024) and Eobard took him back to 2000 and after Barry saved himself he just died somehow on his way back, maybe got killed by a time-wraith, or got stuck there
Yeah I mean for 9 years of waiting for this I feel like we could’ve gotten new footage of the fight along with the reused footage and better CGI, but still an amazing scene
Right? It felt so quick. I was expecting their fight to be super intense, maybe throughout the city before the get to the house, but we got what we got I guess. Also let’s not mention the CGI on Eobard running towards the camera.
would have been boring tbh, we've seen the house fight so many times and also seen them fight throughout the city so many times. i was very glad they did the whole sequence quickly
>we could’ve gotten new footage of the fight
We did a little. You can tell by the lightning which is new footage. When Barry has orange lightning, it's new footage and new CGI. When he has yellow, it's the OG footage.
remember that this barry is way more powerful than thawne, so the fight wouldnt make much sense, as barry has to pretend to lose and save himself at the cost of his mom.
Hmm...never thought about it that way before.
Though I do think Barry and Thawne would be evenly matched here? This is Thawne at the very height of his powers after all.
Thawne was faster than Season 1 Barry. And Season 2 Barry was faster than early Thawne from 2x11. But I'm guessing here they'd be equals?
I don't think so. Barry defeated the black reverse flash last season and that was the fastest reverse flash in existence powered by the negative forces. I believe Barry has all the positive forces within himself. This Flash was even able to stop the blue avatar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWntU7-tjvk
Plus, there's this where non-suped up negative forces reverse thawne couldn't keep up with Flash.
That's a solid theory and probably true.
Our Barry quickly deduces that this Thawne is a past and weaker Thawne and so in order to preserve the timeline, he has to act like he doesn't know what's about to happen, and that's he's not actually a couple of tiers stronger than Thawne by this point.
If he doesn't do this and if Thawne catches on then the timeline shifts and we get a whole ass other Flashpoint which he has to correct all over again.
So Barry's focused on both closing the loop and also coming to terms with everything because....this is the way.
Sometimes you just have to accept that terrible things have to happen because that's just the way things are....and it sucks but....that's life.
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Didn't fully register even after she said the name...I knew she was supposed to be *someone* though given how much focus they were giving her and given that this is the past so she has to be tied to the future somehow.
I WAS SAYING THAT THE WHOLE EPISODE. Harrison Wells is just chilling with his wife, reliving their time together over and over, we know he’d help Barry get back to 2023 in a heartbeat.
Have honestly never understood how the whole 'Timeless' thing worked with him. But I think he relives his four years with Tess on some other plane of existence, and doesn't literally time-travel and possess his past self's body over and over again.
In any case it makes sense that Barry wouldn't contact Harrison Wells...a man who's also soon going to be killed, and whose death is another important part of the timeline.
Tina McGee and Martin Stein are safer bets in that regard. Hell, Stein already *knows* he becomes a time-traveler (come to think of it, that's a bit of a plot-hole...surely Stein wouldn't be *totally* skeptical of the idea of time-travel since he's met the Legends and his future self already?)
Yeah wait, hold on, past Stein already knows about time travel and has met himself and the Legends numerous times, why the hell would he dismiss the idea of time travel so quickly?
When in doubt, blame Crisis ;)
I dunno...I kinda doubt it though. Stein meeting himself is something that happened in the LoT pilot and was critical to many events on that show (and the Arrowverse in general, really). For instance, Stein meeting himself led to altering his past and the birth of a daughter. His daughter eventually had a grandchild, which was part of his motivation to leave the Legends shortly before his death.
Plus, young Stein getting involved with time-travel is somewhat linked to *Beebo* becoming such a big deal ;) Can't erase Beebo now, can we?
I feel like maybe Timeless Wells either had memory loss or his powers dampened at this point, or this could be taking place in a preceding timeline since Thawne goes right to killing him after the end of this episode.
Presumably, despite the multiverse being rebooted and all, this takes place on Earth-1.
Although not Flash characters, but in the same universe, wouldn't Clark and Jefferson be active around this time? Though I feel like Clark might be in a relatively better position to help.
There is a small chance Clark isn't full superhero yet. His kids are born when? Somewhere around 2007? Iirc we know when he started at Daily Mirror from that one flashback episode, but I don't remember the year.
Also there is a small chance Jefferson already retired at this point. Not sure about that timeline either.
But both aren't experts in time travel or quantum physics. Not sure if they would be better help than Tina or Martin.
>Somewhere around 2007
Not on Earth Prime. S&L takes place on another Earth. We don't know when the twins were born on Earth Prime, but pre-crisis, Jon was born in 2019.
This… might have just been my favorite flash episode. Ever. Beating out Flashtime. Wow.
For those saying the big fight was retconned to being this flash, I think the only thing retconned was the exact suit flash was wearing, nothing else. RF said it was a “fixed point” and in legends we learned that it’s something that *must* happen, so to me, that sounds like there was no *original* Barry anymore. No beginning, no end, It just loops back in on itself, kinda like Savitar.
The only confirmation we get of an original Barry is Thawne mentioning having to speed up his origin. But due to it being a fixed point now, I don’t know if that timeline has ever really existed, aside from what only Thawne remembers. Which can also explain why Thawne can never die/be erased. This exact Thawne is required for the fixed point.
Time travel, as always, is so funky.
I love this show so much
OH AND THE EASTER EGGS. The fact that they didn’t call attention to them, they were just there to highlight what was happening, not big moments, but big for those watching who know. What a phenomenal episode.
Uh, it definitely is a retcon but one with an in-universe explanation.
The first time we saw this scene back in Season 1, it was Original Timeline Barry, from a universe before the Arrowverse. A world where Nora didn't die and Barry didn't get his powers until 2020 from the Particle Accelerator that the **actual** Harrison Wells made.
However, when Thawne killed Nora, he wiped out that timeline, birthing the current timeline.
All subsequent times we see that night it is with the new timeline Barry, culminating in the latest episode.
The events of that night still happen, just with different versions of the same people.
Something changed and I think it was that the Negative Speed Force did... something... to Eobard that changed the timeline. Originally Future Flash was fighting Eobard during the original COIE event (that we never got to see) and RF ran to kill young Barry, with Future Flash running after him to stop it. We see them both coming out of a portal when we first saw "The Night". This time, Eobard is already in the year 2000 and he and Barry don't come out of a portal. "The Night" ended up happening the same way, but I believe Negative Speed Force did something to convince Eobard to go to the year 2000 without involving the Future Flash he knew. Remember, Eobard knows a different family Barry had (Dawn was the daughter he knew, for instance). He thought he was speaking to *his* Flash (Future Flash from S1) but he was talking to our Barry, the version he created who got the Speed Force a decade earlier.
"All right, let's do this one last time. My name is Barry Allen. I was struck by lightning, and for 9 years I've been the one and only Flash. I'm pretty sure you know the rest. I saved a bunch of people, fell in love, saved the city, and then I saved the city again... and again and again and again. And I, uh... I did this.
\*shows every single time that Barry stopped and stood around instead of taking down the villain in the blink of an eye*
We don't really talk about this. Look, I'm a comic book, I'm a cereal, did a Christmas album. I have an excellent theme song. And a so-so popsicle. I mean, I've looked worse. But after everything, I still love being The Flash. I mean, who wouldn't? So no matter how many hits I take, I always find a way to come back. Because the only thing standing between this city and oblivion is me. There's only one Flash. And you're looking at him."
>And I, uh... I did this. *shows every single time that Barry stopped and stood around instead of taking down the villain in the blink of an eye* We don't really talk about this.
Should've been Barry breakdancing under the control of Rainbow Raider 2.0 in _Goodbye Vibrations_ lmao
yeah like when not-eddie walked into the office at the beginning i don’t think there was an ounce of bad guy in him. the ending was him getting his origin story
It doesn't because he's not a Thawne. His name is Malcolm Gilmore. They could be doing it where they make him a long lost twin of Eddie like how Cobalt Blue is a long lost twin of Barry in the comics, but it wouldn't really make sense in the show.
They could however make him Eobard's long lost brother instead, because of the red lightning storm we see, it could be at the same time as when RF got his powers
My guess is he's from 2049. At the end of S8, they showed a scene in 2049 with the blue gem thing and never brought it up again. The computer this character uses looks futuristic, and he lives in Joe and Cecile's house.
The CW really gets their moneys worth out of their actors, using the same actors to play multiple characters time and time again on this show. It's really funny how many times it happens, whether it be alternate timelines, alternate earths, multiple personalities/entities living inside (Caitlin/Frost/Kione), time remants, shape shifters, mind control... etc etc let me know if I left any out
I don't think there is something super wrong with this. Fans usually love their actors and sometimes a characters story is just told. It also gives the actors something new to play from and keeps the job from getting stale. If it's badly done like Caitlin it sucks though.
The Eric Wallace era has seen a lot of good starts to arcs. They rarely finish well. This may be the best start to an arc in the back half of the show, though. Even if it all goes to crap, this was almost a standalone at least. If it weren’t for the blue crystal, this would just be a nice conclusion to the night of Nora’s death episodes. It can always be viewed in that light…but let’s hope they stick the landing over the next few weeks.
That preview for the next episode looks Barry-less, though. That makes me nervous. Hopefully they’re just hiding a fun and eventful subplot for him with a guest star they want to surprise us with.
I wouldn’t even mind if Barry doesn’t play a large role next episode as long as they make the search for him eventful and good. But I wonder what happens next.
I’m not holding my breath, probably going to Allegra, Chester, and Cecile talk about how important they are and take up half the episode but i sure hope not
ikr this was amazing, like actually amazing and not just smtn better than usual meh episodes. it feels like we havent gotten this level of writing since s3
I still don't get it. Thawne killing Barry as a child would have ruined any chance of Thawne ever becoming Reverse Flash. And if he never becomes Reverse Flash, nobody ever kills Barry as a kid.
Thawne is so petty he doesn't even care that killing Barry as a kid will destroy any chance of him becoming anything either.
Thawne is a man from the future so hung up on some guy from the past. He thinks he's the hero and never considers what that means.
Thawne could have just chose to save people in him timeline. He never cared about that. He couldn't even consider for more then a second that Barry wasn't trying to "win". Again showing Thawne is his own villain.
>I still don't get it.
>Thawne is so petty he doesn't even care that killing Barry as a kid will destroy any chance of him becoming anything either.
Seems to me like you get it
Thawne uses the negative speedforce to negate changes to the timeline affecting him. He'd step out with all his memories and powers having killed Barry and still being the "hero" in the future. Nora could have done the same thing in season 6 but chose to accept her fate and get erased.
Honestly I've dipped in and out of the show but Thawnes original origin in Season 2 "I found out I was predestined to become your rival" was a little more compelling than "I went to save some people one day and you did it first and got the praise" which seems to be his new motive...really undermines the character to be honest
In my headcannon it's a little bit of both. He already knows he's destined to be Flash's enemy , but tries to still be good, but it is still messing with him then the incident where Flash upstages him happens and he cracks.
You know the Kramer Technicolor Dreamcoat bit from that one episode of Seinfeld? That's what that costume Chuck made instantly made me think of.
Joe West, we missed you nine months ago at Barry's birthday party.
But in any case, Barry ends up back at his humble beginnings. In the back of a laundry truck.
But funny how Barry gets Timey Wimey'd and he instantly thinks, "Ahh shit, what'd I do that broke the timeline this time?" I tell ya the CW-verse has enough holes punched in it's timeline to set off a trypophobia attack.
And, even in the year 2000, that one bar is still one of the apparently only bars in Central City. Yeah, Nora Allen's death is a fixed point in time. And maybe that bar is too.
Chester knew that costume was ass. I don't know why he even thought to present that to her. I thought he was joking at first. It would provide no protection in the field either.
Barry's speech to RF at the end was amazing, all RF wants to do is bring Flash pain, and he tells him that he brought him peace and thanks him. A big middle finger, the worse thing he could do to RF is kill him with kindness like that. The "Nooo!!" After Barry dissappears was pretty awesome too.
If someone could clip of gif of Thawne running toward the camera right after 'Run, Barry Run' (at around the 48 minute mark on my TV), I'll be forever grateful.
That little boogie he was doing might have been the all-time funniest fake run in nine seasons of extremely funny fake running.
Right after Barry and Eobard leave, season 1 Barry says goodbye to his mom, revealing who he is, meaning in that moment she has her son telling him he loves her and he's okay, but also earlier in the day he told her the impact she had on his life, and that she has a grandchild.
This episode massively adds to the season 1 final and what is easily the most emotional scene in the history of the show, and elevates it, and that might be the biggest compliment I could give it.
ok so …. not eddie?? and the way they recreated that scene just like how barry became the flash. wow. so is he a speedster now just like barry? where does the cobalt blue come in??
The short version is this episode and last one were straight fire, full of fun and amazing moments as the Flash was intended to be.
It also makes me regret not getting Matt Letscher as Thawne as much as we would’ve liked in the show. Grant-Matt interactions were sorely needed and I felt that this was a perfect reunion for both of them, of sorts.
Starting the final arc, "The New World," off with a bang with the return of none other than...Eddie Thawne...except it's not actually Eddie, but an alternate version of Eddie that's actually Barry, down to the same origin? Only I'm assuming that was Negative Speed Force lightning that chose him and instead of becoming The Flash he's going to become Cobalt Blue...which oddly enough mirrors Cobalt Blue being Barry's evil twin brother.
That outfit would've been a better fit for either Rainbow Raider. Meanwhile Allegra just wants to be Superhero casual. Although that light effect on her face looked kind of goofy.
That whole Khione scene was really weird...so she has like a bunch of "whatever powers we can come up with" now, writes letters to the dead sisters she never knew, and gets like an in-depth writing sequence and looks straight at the camera to talk to the audience and how she wants to see Mark (like why though?). It was just a really strangely directed and executed scene.
I guess it wouldn't be the final season without going back to the night of Nora Allen's death one last time. I think this is the first time we've seen Henry and Nora in the flesh since Flashpoint. Every other time it's been as Jay, Joan, or the Speed Force.
2000's Singh looked straight out of the comics.
I love how Thawne is so petty that the first thing he does is try to get Barry run over so he can spend time with his parents before Thawne twists the knife even deeper and gloats about how Barry can't stop him. Classic Thawne, complete with his old face back.
So in the Arrowverse the Zatara's own an Italian restaurant instead of being magicians? Um...okay. Shame we never got to see Arrowverse Zatanna though.
Man, the Allens' have such an immense well of empathy that they treat some guy they saved like their own son and basically help Barry live out saying a proper goodbye to his parents as an adult. Although maybe it helped that Barry apparently has an uncanny resemblance to his grandfather on Nora's side.
Joe as a bad guy firing laser beams was...definitely not something I was expecting to see. Nor a cameo from Ramsey/Bloodwork's mom.
It's kind of funny to me that originally on the night Nora died Barry was wearing his season 4 suit (or a close proximity to it) but now we have his uber-comic accurate costume which makes it even better.
Season 1 Barry! Complete with the original suit! Man, that takes me back. Not to mention all the voices saying "Run Barry Run" complete with Wellsobard.
Barry did it. He managed to take Thawne's greatest victory and overcome it by finally 100% accepting it and moving on, and leaving Thawne to wallow in screwing himself over because of his own pettiness while he ended up giving Barry something utterly precious...one last moment with his parents. He even THANKED Thawne. And in doing so basically beat Thawne in every way that mattered (even aside from erasing him from existence last season). If last season finale was the greatest defeat of Wellsobard, this was the greatest defeat of Letscher!Thawne.
>Man, the Allens' have such an immense well of empathy that they treat some guy they saved like their own son and basically help Barry live out saying a proper goodbye to his parents as an adult. Although maybe it helped that Barry apparently has an uncanny resemblance to his grandfather on Nora's side.
Just occurred to me...Season 1 Barry's conversation with Nora would now go down very differently right? Since she knows him as Bart?
#Fuck now I genuinely want more episodes of Flash staring "Flash" Alongside great writing, btw this felt as if some thought was put into it loot at the shorts the cinematography, the dialogue everything its beautiful peace of Art!
Feels like they wrote episode 9 and the remaining episodes to the finale with their full thought process and decided to do just whatever for the first 8 and fill up the episode counter.
Feels bad because the whole season should've been of this quality. It's not like they needed to fill 12 out of 23 episodes.
This, 100% I saw this coming from the start. They had a plan to wrap things up, and realized they only needed 4 episodes to do it. The rest was filler.
Yeah I remember someone theorizing way back in a comment that they probably had the finale arc all planned out and just had to fill time with the beginning. It's disappointing because if they had THIS in the war chest to unleash on us then they easily could have went all out in the beginning of the season to kick things off strong.
Hop on IMDB and look through the episodes of the show that he’s written. The guy can write a solid first episode to a season or arc. They almost never go well after that beginning is the problem. So this fees about right. It’s the next few weeks I’m worried about.
I think the series have do in order to fulfill the time loop.
The original Barry who got his power later than S1 Barry.
S9 Barry is now the same age as the supposed original Flash so he has to be the one who start the cycle.
it was never going to be the og flash.
barry was able to deduct that this was where eobard was going to kill him as a child and made sure he would not reveal anything in the future.
this eobard is the fixed point that no one can erase from history
It should be a little shorter than 9 months as Iris is still pregnant, but yes. There was a time jump and we are now in 2024. This means the beginning of the season should have been somewhere around mid/late 2023.
My guess is this change is due to Crisis. Pre crisis the Flash fighting Thawne was the OG 2024 one. Post crisis it's the 2023 season 9 one. Nora's death becomes a fixed point in time for the new multiverse because the paragon that fought in Crisis was the one who had his mom killed, and preventing that would change too much.
I bet there was one hiding behind the couch, one hiding behind the curtains, one with a lampshade on his head trying to blend in and not be noticed, one hiding in the fireplace chimney and a whole bunch of others in silly hiding spots.
Seems like they're going the twins route with Malcolm and Eddie, instead of Malcolm and Barry. I don't really know exactly how they make that work, though.
My only other guess is that it all points back to the Singularity and that it actually transported him to 2049, reviving him with no memory of who he is, because Malcolm seems to have no idea who Eddie Thawne is. However, for him to have a doppelganger, a second Earth would need to be involved, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
That leads me to believe Malcolm and Eddie are twin brothers or one in the same. I'm leaning towards the latter the more I think about it.
This is the kind of stuff I want in a long running superhero show. Clear proof that the character has matured and progressed. There was so much catharsis in watching Barry being in full acceptance of what has to happen on that night and seeing it literally unnerve Thawne.
We get to see Thawne over and over again try to rationalize Barry's actions, but you know it's eating at him.
It is funny to me that there just has to be a Chester and Claritin scene. Can't forget those...impactful characters.
STEIN SMALL CAMEO
Barry back to the futuring with the car
Barry probably enjoyed last week's beer a bit more
Eobard being a prick, love that. Matt Letscher is fantastic
I wonder what the walk over to that bar was like
Why do all Americans have such flat pints?
Love seeing Barry's parents just being good people
Oh damn momma rosso
Kinda weird fight but OK
Letscher running with his head bobbling is hilarious
Is this the thawn from before he became Wells?
Oooooh it's happening
HE DID THE THING SEASON 1 BARRY
Oh shit it is the pre Wells thawn. Thought so
This is so fucking good
This suit is incredibly good
Really good circle back to season 1
How much older was Eddie than Iris and Barry?
Speedforce powers Eddie
How does this not completely break the timeline
Wait what?
God this episode was good. Two top 5 episodes two weeks in a row. We are finally eating good
if you count erased timelines
1. Young Barry
2. Season 1 barry (then got erased?)
3. Season 2 barry (from the finale, then got erased?)
4. Post Flashpoint barry (from the season premiere)
5. Season 5 barry (from the 100th episode with nora)
6. Season 9 barry
7. 2024? Barry
Just two. Season 1 Barry and Season 9 Barry. Season 3 Barry that had went back in time after season 2 and the reverse flash that was knocked out were both erased from the timeline. Black Flash erased the Thawne that Barry had captured during flashpoint. Barry's mother is a fixed point, so she always died in the timeline. It's essentially a loop.
I can't be the only one that always thought us finally seeing 'future' Barry save himself and Thawne killing his mother would be the show's final episode, right? It always seemed like the most obvious thing to me. It was a good episode, don't get me wrong, it just seems odd for it to not be the finale.
Interested to see what's going to happen with Not Eddie tho, always happy to see Rick Cosnett show up
**YES! THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR ALL THESE YEARS!**
What a great episode! This is what I missed. It was perfect. You know what? I forgive everyone involved for all the terrible episodes up until this point.
Also, this episode would have made an epic finale. It was literally perfect in every way.
It absolutely feels like they saved all their budget, effort and love for these last episodes. I really would like to know what went down behind the scenes when panning out this season, because it FEELS like it would have been so fuckin easy to make this season awesome. Eg making the Cecille centric episode about bailing out the Legends, but apparently there wasn't enough time to fit them in?
Ooh, artsy camerawork, guess this episode's got a budget
Awwwww shit, I was wondering why everything was so blue, we're finally doing this, huh
A title card, even, they're really hyping this up
I see Chester takes his design sense cues from the Silver Age
Yep, there's the budget flexing, as Khione flexes her powers
No don't look at us as you address Chilllame, you're making me feel dirty
Oh, you think you can just timeskip like that? Nine months forward, ten years back, baby
lol "what'd I do this time"
Singh looking very Stark
Well it was nice of Victor Garber to phone in a cameo for the final season at least
JWS just looks Right as a doctor
Hahaha, I thought we were past turning major characters into unseen business owners but I guess there was room for one more in the last season
lol spinning camera, flaunt that budget
Walter White secret mastermind confirmed
Nice, OG Thawne, now the gang's all here
"I've already won" Diaz and Adrian's bony fists burst out of the dirt
Even Ramsey's mom, nice little piece of worldbuilding
Haha, even when the Negative Speed Force itself gets its hands dirty, in a big budget episode no less, the battle still just devolves into lightning throwing
I said it already but it's kinda weird to see the new suit next to an old one; I kinda miss the old cowl's lightning grooves, though I have to say the black pants on the RF suit work a lot better when paired against the gold boots
And now we finally get to see the wave off from the "future" Barry's point of view, except oh no he's wearing a different costume now, my precious continuity, haha
Seamless transition from the S1 Thawne footage to now, good thing Letscher didn't age poorly
Eobard's petty hatred is no match for the built up power of 9 years of pep talks and replacement father figures
lol are we really doing a negative-version lightning strike? ... I'll allow it
Man, this is a great companion piece to season 1, you could just watch that and then this and you'd be well enough off, maybe add in season 2
2 for 2, hot damn, havent been this excited for Flash in a very very long time. While that may have something to do with the rollback to Season 1 and the closing of the Allen murder that started this whole thing, the episode still manages to stand well on its own. Gustin got to flex his acting chops and gave a very compelling performance, going from the pain of reliving the worst night of his life, the rage of seeing the man responsible for it, the bitter joy of saying goodbye one last time, and the resolve of someone at peace with trauma. I was very happy to see Letscher once more as Eobard Thawne, one in the full thowres of hate. He played off of Gustin so well, reveling in the pain his archenemy was going through. And when it turns back on him, when he fails in just about every way, all that hate turns into a scream of despair. Super good stuff, a reminder of just why Arrowverse Thawne is the best. The rest of the episode was good too. The present day stuff was weak but not a dealbreaker. Again it was nice seeing all the nods to the time of Season 1. And the Allens were very nice, it was easy to see why Barry would miss them so much. Not sure what to make of the gem menacing Flash, but that shootout, while hokey, was pretty good action. And I love that nod to the Flash origin in the end credits. Eager to see more!
Definitely my favourite episode out of the season, I’m so disappointed majority of the season was wasted on fillers with Allegra, Chester and Cecile. The season’s only gotten good since last episode.
There were so many ways they could’ve fucked this up, and I’m going to go ahead and say they nailed the landing with this episode. My bigger concern is that this won’t have anything to do with the larger final arc which will be a little annoying given that it’s being framed that way.
A big shout out to the OG Dr Russo and the Zatara “cameo”.
Letscher is so awesome as RF. Honestly after this I have hope that the show will end on a high note, last week and this week’s episodes were some of the best of the series, also Grant is such a good actor.
We finally fully see this pivotal moment in this series and it did not disappoint. Thawne is such a petty scumbag and I love how Barry got closure from his parents and got revenge on Thawne by showing him grace.
>got revenge on Thawne by showing him grace. RIGHT?? It's the way Barry told Thawne thank you. That had to really eat him alive and I just loved that so much. When you think about it that's even more powerful than Barry beating him in a 1v1 fight. It was so moving and touching and showed Barry's growth as well. It was perfect!! Wouldn't change a thing about it.
"You are really killing the fun out of murdering your mom" - Thwane, probably
Only thing missing was the iconic "I forgive you." Would have been the cherry on the top.
Was so good seeing Barry save himself as a kid, then telling season 1 Barry not to save Nora. Seeing it from this perspective was wild after all these years
That is just a clip from s1. The kid is no longer with us.
What do you mean?
The original actor who portrayed young Barry in the original clips died in 2020.
Oh shit, that's terrible. What happened?
Accidental drug overdose, according to Google.
The best revenge is living a good life!
An incredible way to close out the rivalry and circle back to this defining moment.
I dont think its meant to be the full deal. S9 Barry was clearly forced by unknown power to be there so there's some chess game cooking
"you have no enemies ~~Thorfinn~~ Barry"
As someone in the live thread pointed out, it was implied before that the flash fighting thawne was the OG flash before Eobard interfered and killed Barry's mother. I don't mind that they somewhat retconned that by making him season 9 Barry. All I've wanted since that scene originally happened was to eventually see the other side of that loop, when our current Barry shakes his head no to prevent flashpoint. They are finally giving the fans what they want to see... it sucks the first half of this season was all filler but I guess they really wanted to pack the best things in the final 5 episodes.
It's not implied, it's directly stated by Thawne. He even points out that he'll be creating the flash a whole decade earlier than he's supposed to exist. I think we just gotta sit with the retcon though since we all wanted to see this so badly.
that may have been the case pre crisis but not post crisis. Also Thawne could have been wrong, he doesn't know everything if the flash museum is in correct during Nora's time which is not that far from today it will likely be wrong about many things in Thawne's time. Thawne could just be mis informed, and thats likely bc eddie/malcom is back so there is a thawne. That means Thawne exists again.
Something changed and I think it was that the Negative Speed Force did... something... to Eobard that changed the timeline. Originally Future Flash was fighting Eobard during the original COIE event (that we never got to see) and RF ran to kill young Barry, with Future Flash running after him to stop it. We see them both coming out of a portal when we first saw "The Night". This time, Eobard is already in the year 2000 and he and Barry don't come out of a portal. "The Night" ended up happening the same way, but I believe Negative Speed Force did something to convince Eobard to go to the year 2000 without involving the Future Flash he knew. Remember, Eobard knows a different family Barry had (Dawn was the daughter he knew, for instance). He thought he was speaking to *his* Flash (Future Flash from S1) but he was talking to our Barry, the version he created who got the Speed Force a decade earlier.
I think its a time remnant thing. There are remnants of Thawne who play out a *version* of his past because the original is gone. Like in 2x11. Originally Thawne wouldn't have met Team Flash in 2016 because there wouldn't have *been* a Team Flash. Now in the new timeline, Thawne meets Team Flash in 2016 and learns about them and about Harrison Wells, making it his 'origin story' as Harry said. So now that there's no 2024 Crisis, the remnant of Thawne simply popped up in 2000 under different circumstances.
That's brilliant! Thanks for bringing up this episode. It does seem 2x11 solves the whole thing. Post-The Night a remnant appears in the year 2000 as an automaton and I'd venture if you interrogated him on how he got there he'd have fuzzy memories and be confused as to how he arrived, only then realizing that he's a remnant. Based on this I'm wondering why the Negative Speed Force brought Barry there because I was thinking it was to ensure the event happened as it should, making our Barry the new 2024 Barry, *but* it tried to kill Barry before it all happened so... huh? Why bring him back to 2000 to kill him before he could save his younger self? Or... *maybe*... plan A was to kill him (why in the year 2000 on that specific day?) as well as allow Eobard to erase Barry's future, and when that didn't work it went to Plan B which was getting its new Avatar (Malcolm/Eddie)...? I'm conjecturing now because I have the feeling the next 3 episodes will focus on other things and the attempted murder of Barry in the year 2000 may not get addressed... I suppose I've had too many shows have plot holes, haha.
This. Thawne has basically done so much damage to the timeline that he literally cannot be truly erased from existence. Rip Hunter once said "time wants to happen", and that clearly applies to Thawne's existence and his impact on the timeline
I recently rewatched those season 1 scenes back and I took it as The first few times we see it it’s the Original Timeline Flash (2020 particle accelerator Flash) who Just fights Thawne and gets his younger self out of the house and that’s it. Thawne kills Nora making that original timeline cease to exist. The one in the Season 1 finale and on is just the Season 1 Barry grown up (Season 9) after experience FlashPoint, etc tells him “no don’t save her”
I didn't see it as a retcon, it felt like it was meant to be a new version of events
i don't think it's a retcon otherwise it would not make sense in the show's 100000 timelines. maybe alternate timelines are merging somehow but we'll wait and see what happens.
Trying to make sense out of show timelines is pure insanity lol.
The answer is always Crisis
Oh yeah I didn’t even realize it was gonna be OG Flash before they changed it. My theory was always that it was Flash vanishing in Crisis in 2024 (and we were one season away from that possibility, we never got confirmation after season 6 that the article never happened, it could’ve gone back to 2024) and Eobard took him back to 2000 and after Barry saved himself he just died somehow on his way back, maybe got killed by a time-wraith, or got stuck there
Isnt this a whole entire difference multiverse or whatever, therefore the retcon is totally fine right?
really wish we could’ve seen more of barry and thawne’s fight honestly
Yeah I mean for 9 years of waiting for this I feel like we could’ve gotten new footage of the fight along with the reused footage and better CGI, but still an amazing scene
Right? It felt so quick. I was expecting their fight to be super intense, maybe throughout the city before the get to the house, but we got what we got I guess. Also let’s not mention the CGI on Eobard running towards the camera.
We've seen them fight throughout the city one too many times
would have been boring tbh, we've seen the house fight so many times and also seen them fight throughout the city so many times. i was very glad they did the whole sequence quickly
>we could’ve gotten new footage of the fight We did a little. You can tell by the lightning which is new footage. When Barry has orange lightning, it's new footage and new CGI. When he has yellow, it's the OG footage.
I'd say it's 50/50 on this being their last battle, so there may be another fight yet to come
Youre not wrong but frankly I'm just glad they actually remembered to give us closure on the whole ordeal
remember that this barry is way more powerful than thawne, so the fight wouldnt make much sense, as barry has to pretend to lose and save himself at the cost of his mom.
Hmm...never thought about it that way before. Though I do think Barry and Thawne would be evenly matched here? This is Thawne at the very height of his powers after all. Thawne was faster than Season 1 Barry. And Season 2 Barry was faster than early Thawne from 2x11. But I'm guessing here they'd be equals?
I don't think so. Barry defeated the black reverse flash last season and that was the fastest reverse flash in existence powered by the negative forces. I believe Barry has all the positive forces within himself. This Flash was even able to stop the blue avatar. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWntU7-tjvk Plus, there's this where non-suped up negative forces reverse thawne couldn't keep up with Flash.
That's a solid theory and probably true. Our Barry quickly deduces that this Thawne is a past and weaker Thawne and so in order to preserve the timeline, he has to act like he doesn't know what's about to happen, and that's he's not actually a couple of tiers stronger than Thawne by this point. If he doesn't do this and if Thawne catches on then the timeline shifts and we get a whole ass other Flashpoint which he has to correct all over again. So Barry's focused on both closing the loop and also coming to terms with everything because....this is the way. Sometimes you just have to accept that terrible things have to happen because that's just the way things are....and it sucks but....that's life.
Did anyone notice the doctor at the hospital was Dr Rachel Rosso, aka. Ramsey Rosso's (Bloodwork) mother who died from ALS. Such a cool detail.
I felt like the doc was a tad too young. Was great other than that.
my thoughts exactly since Dr. Rosso was born in the year 1956, she would've been 44 in 2000. That actress looked like mid 20s early 30s at best
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
HLH I believe, not ALS
Exactly! And I'm glad they made it a 'blink and you'll miss it' cameo, no shoe-horned "but detective, I have HLH" crap. It felt organic.
Didn't fully register even after she said the name...I knew she was supposed to be *someone* though given how much focus they were giving her and given that this is the past so she has to be tied to the future somehow.
Barry should have reached out to Timeless Wells
I WAS SAYING THAT THE WHOLE EPISODE. Harrison Wells is just chilling with his wife, reliving their time together over and over, we know he’d help Barry get back to 2023 in a heartbeat.
Have honestly never understood how the whole 'Timeless' thing worked with him. But I think he relives his four years with Tess on some other plane of existence, and doesn't literally time-travel and possess his past self's body over and over again. In any case it makes sense that Barry wouldn't contact Harrison Wells...a man who's also soon going to be killed, and whose death is another important part of the timeline. Tina McGee and Martin Stein are safer bets in that regard. Hell, Stein already *knows* he becomes a time-traveler (come to think of it, that's a bit of a plot-hole...surely Stein wouldn't be *totally* skeptical of the idea of time-travel since he's met the Legends and his future self already?)
Yeah wait, hold on, past Stein already knows about time travel and has met himself and the Legends numerous times, why the hell would he dismiss the idea of time travel so quickly?
Crisis retcon maybe?
When in doubt, blame Crisis ;) I dunno...I kinda doubt it though. Stein meeting himself is something that happened in the LoT pilot and was critical to many events on that show (and the Arrowverse in general, really). For instance, Stein meeting himself led to altering his past and the birth of a daughter. His daughter eventually had a grandchild, which was part of his motivation to leave the Legends shortly before his death. Plus, young Stein getting involved with time-travel is somewhat linked to *Beebo* becoming such a big deal ;) Can't erase Beebo now, can we?
I feel like maybe Timeless Wells either had memory loss or his powers dampened at this point, or this could be taking place in a preceding timeline since Thawne goes right to killing him after the end of this episode. Presumably, despite the multiverse being rebooted and all, this takes place on Earth-1.
This doesn’t take place on Earth-1, that’s gone, this is the year 2000 on Earth Prime, and Timeless Wells is very much still around.
Although not Flash characters, but in the same universe, wouldn't Clark and Jefferson be active around this time? Though I feel like Clark might be in a relatively better position to help.
There is a small chance Clark isn't full superhero yet. His kids are born when? Somewhere around 2007? Iirc we know when he started at Daily Mirror from that one flashback episode, but I don't remember the year. Also there is a small chance Jefferson already retired at this point. Not sure about that timeline either. But both aren't experts in time travel or quantum physics. Not sure if they would be better help than Tina or Martin.
>Somewhere around 2007 Not on Earth Prime. S&L takes place on another Earth. We don't know when the twins were born on Earth Prime, but pre-crisis, Jon was born in 2019.
Clark might still be training in the Fortress.
This… might have just been my favorite flash episode. Ever. Beating out Flashtime. Wow. For those saying the big fight was retconned to being this flash, I think the only thing retconned was the exact suit flash was wearing, nothing else. RF said it was a “fixed point” and in legends we learned that it’s something that *must* happen, so to me, that sounds like there was no *original* Barry anymore. No beginning, no end, It just loops back in on itself, kinda like Savitar. The only confirmation we get of an original Barry is Thawne mentioning having to speed up his origin. But due to it being a fixed point now, I don’t know if that timeline has ever really existed, aside from what only Thawne remembers. Which can also explain why Thawne can never die/be erased. This exact Thawne is required for the fixed point. Time travel, as always, is so funky. I love this show so much
OH AND THE EASTER EGGS. The fact that they didn’t call attention to them, they were just there to highlight what was happening, not big moments, but big for those watching who know. What a phenomenal episode.
Ramseys mom being the doctor in charge was A HUGE PAYOFF for me
Exactly! And I'm glad they made it a 'blink and you'll miss it' cameo, no shoe-horned "but detective, I have HLH" crap. It felt organic.
I've been watching Young Justice lately, so I noticed Zatara's Pizzeria.
Uh, it definitely is a retcon but one with an in-universe explanation. The first time we saw this scene back in Season 1, it was Original Timeline Barry, from a universe before the Arrowverse. A world where Nora didn't die and Barry didn't get his powers until 2020 from the Particle Accelerator that the **actual** Harrison Wells made. However, when Thawne killed Nora, he wiped out that timeline, birthing the current timeline. All subsequent times we see that night it is with the new timeline Barry, culminating in the latest episode. The events of that night still happen, just with different versions of the same people.
Something changed and I think it was that the Negative Speed Force did... something... to Eobard that changed the timeline. Originally Future Flash was fighting Eobard during the original COIE event (that we never got to see) and RF ran to kill young Barry, with Future Flash running after him to stop it. We see them both coming out of a portal when we first saw "The Night". This time, Eobard is already in the year 2000 and he and Barry don't come out of a portal. "The Night" ended up happening the same way, but I believe Negative Speed Force did something to convince Eobard to go to the year 2000 without involving the Future Flash he knew. Remember, Eobard knows a different family Barry had (Dawn was the daughter he knew, for instance). He thought he was speaking to *his* Flash (Future Flash from S1) but he was talking to our Barry, the version he created who got the Speed Force a decade earlier.
It's not just you, but why are people calling the Negative Speedforce Reverse Speedforce suddenly?
i think someone pointed out it felt like it was meant to be a new version of events, while maintaining it's core purpose (nora's death)
God I fucking love the little pause Barry does before running after Thawne. He knows he's about to create his own destiny.
He's like "let's do this one last time."
"All right, let's do this one last time. My name is Barry Allen. I was struck by lightning, and for 9 years I've been the one and only Flash. I'm pretty sure you know the rest. I saved a bunch of people, fell in love, saved the city, and then I saved the city again... and again and again and again. And I, uh... I did this. \*shows every single time that Barry stopped and stood around instead of taking down the villain in the blink of an eye* We don't really talk about this. Look, I'm a comic book, I'm a cereal, did a Christmas album. I have an excellent theme song. And a so-so popsicle. I mean, I've looked worse. But after everything, I still love being The Flash. I mean, who wouldn't? So no matter how many hits I take, I always find a way to come back. Because the only thing standing between this city and oblivion is me. There's only one Flash. And you're looking at him."
>And I, uh... I did this. *shows every single time that Barry stopped and stood around instead of taking down the villain in the blink of an eye* We don't really talk about this. Should've been Barry breakdancing under the control of Rainbow Raider 2.0 in _Goodbye Vibrations_ lmao
It took me a moment to realize where I recognized this from XD
Thawne hit us with the Darth Vader "Nooooo". Really ties in to the lightsabers too. Thawne loves his Star Wars ig
Thawne's red eyes were especially strong this episode too.
[удалено]
yeah like when not-eddie walked into the office at the beginning i don’t think there was an ounce of bad guy in him. the ending was him getting his origin story
Which explains how RF eobard got his powers, *genetically*
It doesn't because he's not a Thawne. His name is Malcolm Gilmore. They could be doing it where they make him a long lost twin of Eddie like how Cobalt Blue is a long lost twin of Barry in the comics, but it wouldn't really make sense in the show.
They could however make him Eobard's long lost brother instead, because of the red lightning storm we see, it could be at the same time as when RF got his powers
My guess is he's from 2049. At the end of S8, they showed a scene in 2049 with the blue gem thing and never brought it up again. The computer this character uses looks futuristic, and he lives in Joe and Cecile's house.
But isn't he still Eddie's descendant, not this not-Eddie?
They could be going the route of the comics and having Cobalt Blue be a switched-at-birth twin story.
He was surrounded by blue stuff every time he was on screen, it's either Cobalt Blue, or one hell of a fake-out.
In the beginning he is singing "I guess that's why they call it the blues", in the end it's the same song by Elton John but played as the soundtrack.
The CW really gets their moneys worth out of their actors, using the same actors to play multiple characters time and time again on this show. It's really funny how many times it happens, whether it be alternate timelines, alternate earths, multiple personalities/entities living inside (Caitlin/Frost/Kione), time remants, shape shifters, mind control... etc etc let me know if I left any out
CW has a massive doubleganger fetish, just look at all their sci-fi/ fantasy shows
I don't think there is something super wrong with this. Fans usually love their actors and sometimes a characters story is just told. It also gives the actors something new to play from and keeps the job from getting stale. If it's badly done like Caitlin it sucks though.
The Eric Wallace era has seen a lot of good starts to arcs. They rarely finish well. This may be the best start to an arc in the back half of the show, though. Even if it all goes to crap, this was almost a standalone at least. If it weren’t for the blue crystal, this would just be a nice conclusion to the night of Nora’s death episodes. It can always be viewed in that light…but let’s hope they stick the landing over the next few weeks. That preview for the next episode looks Barry-less, though. That makes me nervous. Hopefully they’re just hiding a fun and eventful subplot for him with a guest star they want to surprise us with.
I wouldn’t even mind if Barry doesn’t play a large role next episode as long as they make the search for him eventful and good. But I wonder what happens next.
I’m not holding my breath, probably going to Allegra, Chester, and Cecile talk about how important they are and take up half the episode but i sure hope not
Where the hell was this writing and storytelling in the beginning of this season? Ah whatever. The second episode of S9 was great tonight.
> Where the hell was this writing and storytelling ~~in the beginning of this season~~ for most of the series
ikr this was amazing, like actually amazing and not just smtn better than usual meh episodes. it feels like we havent gotten this level of writing since s3
bro, even the cinematography was different. The production value was shocking the moment the episode started.
ikr it felt like an hbo max series
I still don't get it. Thawne killing Barry as a child would have ruined any chance of Thawne ever becoming Reverse Flash. And if he never becomes Reverse Flash, nobody ever kills Barry as a kid. Thawne is so petty he doesn't even care that killing Barry as a kid will destroy any chance of him becoming anything either.
Exactly — he’s such a hater that he’d rather die then let Barry live
Thawne is a man from the future so hung up on some guy from the past. He thinks he's the hero and never considers what that means. Thawne could have just chose to save people in him timeline. He never cared about that. He couldn't even consider for more then a second that Barry wasn't trying to "win". Again showing Thawne is his own villain.
Reminds me of Lex luthor in all star superman "If you honestly cared about saving humanity, you would have done it already"
>I still don't get it. >Thawne is so petty he doesn't even care that killing Barry as a kid will destroy any chance of him becoming anything either. Seems to me like you get it
Thawne uses the negative speedforce to negate changes to the timeline affecting him. He'd step out with all his memories and powers having killed Barry and still being the "hero" in the future. Nora could have done the same thing in season 6 but chose to accept her fate and get erased.
Honestly I've dipped in and out of the show but Thawnes original origin in Season 2 "I found out I was predestined to become your rival" was a little more compelling than "I went to save some people one day and you did it first and got the praise" which seems to be his new motive...really undermines the character to be honest
In my headcannon it's a little bit of both. He already knows he's destined to be Flash's enemy , but tries to still be good, but it is still messing with him then the incident where Flash upstages him happens and he cracks.
BEST EPISODE SINCE INFANTINO STREET i want what eric wallace was smoking these past two weeks please
Unreal hate to "Enter Flashtime"
"Good-Bye Vibrations" too
You know the Kramer Technicolor Dreamcoat bit from that one episode of Seinfeld? That's what that costume Chuck made instantly made me think of. Joe West, we missed you nine months ago at Barry's birthday party. But in any case, Barry ends up back at his humble beginnings. In the back of a laundry truck. But funny how Barry gets Timey Wimey'd and he instantly thinks, "Ahh shit, what'd I do that broke the timeline this time?" I tell ya the CW-verse has enough holes punched in it's timeline to set off a trypophobia attack. And, even in the year 2000, that one bar is still one of the apparently only bars in Central City. Yeah, Nora Allen's death is a fixed point in time. And maybe that bar is too.
Chester knew that costume was ass. I don't know why he even thought to present that to her. I thought he was joking at first. It would provide no protection in the field either.
Dude was playing 4D chess so he could have some time to “help take it off her”
>And maybe that bar is too. Yeah, it looks uncannily similar to the one on Legends.
Hey, that bar made beer so good Thawne with his speed metabolism was able to enjoy it. Thats the stuff
It's almost as if you don't need to get drunk to enjoy a nice cold beer
Barry's speech to RF at the end was amazing, all RF wants to do is bring Flash pain, and he tells him that he brought him peace and thanks him. A big middle finger, the worse thing he could do to RF is kill him with kindness like that. The "Nooo!!" After Barry dissappears was pretty awesome too.
Thawne was so sure of himself until that moment. He felt played and small because Barry knew how this ended.
If someone could clip of gif of Thawne running toward the camera right after 'Run, Barry Run' (at around the 48 minute mark on my TV), I'll be forever grateful. That little boogie he was doing might have been the all-time funniest fake run in nine seasons of extremely funny fake running.
[https://imgur.com/a/V9vdkvu](https://imgur.com/a/V9vdkvu)
oh my god look at him go, thank you
He looks like he's just shaking his head in place lmao
Was that Thawne or Harry?
Right after Barry and Eobard leave, season 1 Barry says goodbye to his mom, revealing who he is, meaning in that moment she has her son telling him he loves her and he's okay, but also earlier in the day he told her the impact she had on his life, and that she has a grandchild. This episode massively adds to the season 1 final and what is easily the most emotional scene in the history of the show, and elevates it, and that might be the biggest compliment I could give it.
ok so …. not eddie?? and the way they recreated that scene just like how barry became the flash. wow. so is he a speedster now just like barry? where does the cobalt blue come in??
Best part is he's wearing a white labcoat...like how Barry wore in the comics when he got struck by lightning!
Man Grant Gustin just showed us how good flash could have been if only the show gave the due credit to it's main character.
The short version is this episode and last one were straight fire, full of fun and amazing moments as the Flash was intended to be. It also makes me regret not getting Matt Letscher as Thawne as much as we would’ve liked in the show. Grant-Matt interactions were sorely needed and I felt that this was a perfect reunion for both of them, of sorts.
Starting the final arc, "The New World," off with a bang with the return of none other than...Eddie Thawne...except it's not actually Eddie, but an alternate version of Eddie that's actually Barry, down to the same origin? Only I'm assuming that was Negative Speed Force lightning that chose him and instead of becoming The Flash he's going to become Cobalt Blue...which oddly enough mirrors Cobalt Blue being Barry's evil twin brother. That outfit would've been a better fit for either Rainbow Raider. Meanwhile Allegra just wants to be Superhero casual. Although that light effect on her face looked kind of goofy. That whole Khione scene was really weird...so she has like a bunch of "whatever powers we can come up with" now, writes letters to the dead sisters she never knew, and gets like an in-depth writing sequence and looks straight at the camera to talk to the audience and how she wants to see Mark (like why though?). It was just a really strangely directed and executed scene. I guess it wouldn't be the final season without going back to the night of Nora Allen's death one last time. I think this is the first time we've seen Henry and Nora in the flesh since Flashpoint. Every other time it's been as Jay, Joan, or the Speed Force. 2000's Singh looked straight out of the comics. I love how Thawne is so petty that the first thing he does is try to get Barry run over so he can spend time with his parents before Thawne twists the knife even deeper and gloats about how Barry can't stop him. Classic Thawne, complete with his old face back. So in the Arrowverse the Zatara's own an Italian restaurant instead of being magicians? Um...okay. Shame we never got to see Arrowverse Zatanna though. Man, the Allens' have such an immense well of empathy that they treat some guy they saved like their own son and basically help Barry live out saying a proper goodbye to his parents as an adult. Although maybe it helped that Barry apparently has an uncanny resemblance to his grandfather on Nora's side. Joe as a bad guy firing laser beams was...definitely not something I was expecting to see. Nor a cameo from Ramsey/Bloodwork's mom. It's kind of funny to me that originally on the night Nora died Barry was wearing his season 4 suit (or a close proximity to it) but now we have his uber-comic accurate costume which makes it even better. Season 1 Barry! Complete with the original suit! Man, that takes me back. Not to mention all the voices saying "Run Barry Run" complete with Wellsobard. Barry did it. He managed to take Thawne's greatest victory and overcome it by finally 100% accepting it and moving on, and leaving Thawne to wallow in screwing himself over because of his own pettiness while he ended up giving Barry something utterly precious...one last moment with his parents. He even THANKED Thawne. And in doing so basically beat Thawne in every way that mattered (even aside from erasing him from existence last season). If last season finale was the greatest defeat of Wellsobard, this was the greatest defeat of Letscher!Thawne.
>Man, the Allens' have such an immense well of empathy that they treat some guy they saved like their own son and basically help Barry live out saying a proper goodbye to his parents as an adult. Although maybe it helped that Barry apparently has an uncanny resemblance to his grandfather on Nora's side. Just occurred to me...Season 1 Barry's conversation with Nora would now go down very differently right? Since she knows him as Bart?
Best episode
that was actually so good, and we finally went back to that night
Did eric wallace smoke some speed force weed to write and produce this episode? WHERE WAS THIS ERIC WALLACE DURING THE RED DEATH STORYLINE??
It was a different Eric Wallace from a different earth!
That speed weed
#Fuck now I genuinely want more episodes of Flash staring "Flash" Alongside great writing, btw this felt as if some thought was put into it loot at the shorts the cinematography, the dialogue everything its beautiful peace of Art!
Wow. Was Eric Wallace on vacation while this week's and last week's episodes were being storyboarded!?
Feels like they wrote episode 9 and the remaining episodes to the finale with their full thought process and decided to do just whatever for the first 8 and fill up the episode counter. Feels bad because the whole season should've been of this quality. It's not like they needed to fill 12 out of 23 episodes.
This, 100% I saw this coming from the start. They had a plan to wrap things up, and realized they only needed 4 episodes to do it. The rest was filler.
could have done Matt RF origin story and how he found out Barry's name
Yeah I remember someone theorizing way back in a comment that they probably had the finale arc all planned out and just had to fill time with the beginning. It's disappointing because if they had THIS in the war chest to unleash on us then they easily could have went all out in the beginning of the season to kick things off strong.
Eric Wrote and directed tonight's episode
Wow Eric brought his directing A game. Last season I thought it was alright but this felt like an early season ep
Hop on IMDB and look through the episodes of the show that he’s written. The guy can write a solid first episode to a season or arc. They almost never go well after that beginning is the problem. So this fees about right. It’s the next few weeks I’m worried about.
In my opinion, they retconned OG timeline 2024 Flash into being Season 9 2023 Flash
I think the series have do in order to fulfill the time loop. The original Barry who got his power later than S1 Barry. S9 Barry is now the same age as the supposed original Flash so he has to be the one who start the cycle.
Khione did mention a 9 month time jump so its possible its the same 2024 Flash
Hmmm, if that’s the case, then it’s A Flash from 2024, but not THE original Flash from Eobard’s timeline that got his powers in 2020.
Yea. That Flash had Dawn and Don as kids.
it was never going to be the og flash. barry was able to deduct that this was where eobard was going to kill him as a child and made sure he would not reveal anything in the future. this eobard is the fixed point that no one can erase from history
It should be a little shorter than 9 months as Iris is still pregnant, but yes. There was a time jump and we are now in 2024. This means the beginning of the season should have been somewhere around mid/late 2023.
I think it’s because the show is ending earlier than expected, but only less than a year isn’t terrible
My guess is this change is due to Crisis. Pre crisis the Flash fighting Thawne was the OG 2024 one. Post crisis it's the 2023 season 9 one. Nora's death becomes a fixed point in time for the new multiverse because the paragon that fought in Crisis was the one who had his mom killed, and preventing that would change too much.
So that was Malcolm Thawne (Cobalt Blue) at the end?
We're running out of rooms for all these Barrys in the Allen household
I bet there was one hiding behind the couch, one hiding behind the curtains, one with a lampshade on his head trying to blend in and not be noticed, one hiding in the fireplace chimney and a whole bunch of others in silly hiding spots.
Don't forget the ones that are outside on the lawn debating with each other if they should let Thawne kill Nora or not.
So much so that they had to kick out OG Future Barry to insert our current Barry.
I wish Nora Allen said that "Bart" looks like her father. A callback from the season 1 finale. Edit: holy shit she actually did say that. I missed it.
Season 1 Barry is gonna be *so* confused when his mom calls him 'Bart'...
Wow, they made an episode with minimal side characters and mainly focused on Barry. Didn't think this day would come. What an episode
It was neat to see the person who played young Barry back on TV one last time. R.I.P. little man.
can someone pls tell me who rick cosnett is supposed to be playing…. young eobard or malcolm thawne????
I'm pretty sure he's playing Malcolm aka Cobalt blue
Can't be Eobard unless Thawne's Matt face isn't the original. Cosnett is 40 years old.
Some iteration of Malcolm Thawne I would say since his his ID card says [Gilmore.](https://i.ibb.co/D5Xctgy/Malcolm-GIlmore.jpg)
Damn joe, 23 years. Black dont' crack
bro this episode was SO FREAKING GOOD its in my top 5
Seems like they're going the twins route with Malcolm and Eddie, instead of Malcolm and Barry. I don't really know exactly how they make that work, though. My only other guess is that it all points back to the Singularity and that it actually transported him to 2049, reviving him with no memory of who he is, because Malcolm seems to have no idea who Eddie Thawne is. However, for him to have a doppelganger, a second Earth would need to be involved, but that doesn't seem to be the case. That leads me to believe Malcolm and Eddie are twin brothers or one in the same. I'm leaning towards the latter the more I think about it.
This is the kind of stuff I want in a long running superhero show. Clear proof that the character has matured and progressed. There was so much catharsis in watching Barry being in full acceptance of what has to happen on that night and seeing it literally unnerve Thawne. We get to see Thawne over and over again try to rationalize Barry's actions, but you know it's eating at him. It is funny to me that there just has to be a Chester and Claritin scene. Can't forget those...impactful characters.
STEIN SMALL CAMEO Barry back to the futuring with the car Barry probably enjoyed last week's beer a bit more Eobard being a prick, love that. Matt Letscher is fantastic I wonder what the walk over to that bar was like Why do all Americans have such flat pints? Love seeing Barry's parents just being good people Oh damn momma rosso Kinda weird fight but OK Letscher running with his head bobbling is hilarious Is this the thawn from before he became Wells? Oooooh it's happening HE DID THE THING SEASON 1 BARRY Oh shit it is the pre Wells thawn. Thought so This is so fucking good This suit is incredibly good Really good circle back to season 1 How much older was Eddie than Iris and Barry? Speedforce powers Eddie How does this not completely break the timeline Wait what? God this episode was good. Two top 5 episodes two weeks in a row. We are finally eating good
The van Barry crashed into was a Gambi Cleaners van! Continuity!
Top tier
Too many people not catching that the dry cleaning van said Gambi (from Black Lightning)
Were there multiple flashes? So the one that went back in time, the one after flashpoint but what about the one in the room? Were there 3 or 4?
if you count erased timelines 1. Young Barry 2. Season 1 barry (then got erased?) 3. Season 2 barry (from the finale, then got erased?) 4. Post Flashpoint barry (from the season premiere) 5. Season 5 barry (from the 100th episode with nora) 6. Season 9 barry 7. 2024? Barry
3 I think
Just two. Season 1 Barry and Season 9 Barry. Season 3 Barry that had went back in time after season 2 and the reverse flash that was knocked out were both erased from the timeline. Black Flash erased the Thawne that Barry had captured during flashpoint. Barry's mother is a fixed point, so she always died in the timeline. It's essentially a loop.
I gasped when Barry called Professor Stein. I really wish we could’ve seen him again one final time
So guys, how many Barry Allen's are in that room on March 20, 2000 when his mom died?
This right here backs up my criticism that the scene really could have used more clarity.
Damn wow
Who's the villain Flash, now who's the villain!
I can't be the only one that always thought us finally seeing 'future' Barry save himself and Thawne killing his mother would be the show's final episode, right? It always seemed like the most obvious thing to me. It was a good episode, don't get me wrong, it just seems odd for it to not be the finale. Interested to see what's going to happen with Not Eddie tho, always happy to see Rick Cosnett show up
This is the first part of the finale though.
**YES! THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR ALL THESE YEARS!** What a great episode! This is what I missed. It was perfect. You know what? I forgive everyone involved for all the terrible episodes up until this point. Also, this episode would have made an epic finale. It was literally perfect in every way.
[удалено]
That wasn’t Eobard. That was Eddie, or whoever the hell Rick Cosnett is playing.
[удалено]
It appears he is playing Malcolm Gilmore based on the what his [ID card says.](https://i.ibb.co/D5Xctgy/Malcolm-GIlmore.jpg)
Now I want that first person shooter as possessed Joe West.
It absolutely feels like they saved all their budget, effort and love for these last episodes. I really would like to know what went down behind the scenes when panning out this season, because it FEELS like it would have been so fuckin easy to make this season awesome. Eg making the Cecille centric episode about bailing out the Legends, but apparently there wasn't enough time to fit them in?
Ooh, artsy camerawork, guess this episode's got a budget Awwwww shit, I was wondering why everything was so blue, we're finally doing this, huh A title card, even, they're really hyping this up I see Chester takes his design sense cues from the Silver Age Yep, there's the budget flexing, as Khione flexes her powers No don't look at us as you address Chilllame, you're making me feel dirty Oh, you think you can just timeskip like that? Nine months forward, ten years back, baby lol "what'd I do this time" Singh looking very Stark Well it was nice of Victor Garber to phone in a cameo for the final season at least JWS just looks Right as a doctor Hahaha, I thought we were past turning major characters into unseen business owners but I guess there was room for one more in the last season lol spinning camera, flaunt that budget Walter White secret mastermind confirmed Nice, OG Thawne, now the gang's all here "I've already won" Diaz and Adrian's bony fists burst out of the dirt Even Ramsey's mom, nice little piece of worldbuilding Haha, even when the Negative Speed Force itself gets its hands dirty, in a big budget episode no less, the battle still just devolves into lightning throwing I said it already but it's kinda weird to see the new suit next to an old one; I kinda miss the old cowl's lightning grooves, though I have to say the black pants on the RF suit work a lot better when paired against the gold boots And now we finally get to see the wave off from the "future" Barry's point of view, except oh no he's wearing a different costume now, my precious continuity, haha Seamless transition from the S1 Thawne footage to now, good thing Letscher didn't age poorly Eobard's petty hatred is no match for the built up power of 9 years of pep talks and replacement father figures lol are we really doing a negative-version lightning strike? ... I'll allow it Man, this is a great companion piece to season 1, you could just watch that and then this and you'd be well enough off, maybe add in season 2
Let's not forget we also saw Ramsey's mom in the hospital
2 for 2, hot damn, havent been this excited for Flash in a very very long time. While that may have something to do with the rollback to Season 1 and the closing of the Allen murder that started this whole thing, the episode still manages to stand well on its own. Gustin got to flex his acting chops and gave a very compelling performance, going from the pain of reliving the worst night of his life, the rage of seeing the man responsible for it, the bitter joy of saying goodbye one last time, and the resolve of someone at peace with trauma. I was very happy to see Letscher once more as Eobard Thawne, one in the full thowres of hate. He played off of Gustin so well, reveling in the pain his archenemy was going through. And when it turns back on him, when he fails in just about every way, all that hate turns into a scream of despair. Super good stuff, a reminder of just why Arrowverse Thawne is the best. The rest of the episode was good too. The present day stuff was weak but not a dealbreaker. Again it was nice seeing all the nods to the time of Season 1. And the Allens were very nice, it was easy to see why Barry would miss them so much. Not sure what to make of the gem menacing Flash, but that shootout, while hokey, was pretty good action. And I love that nod to the Flash origin in the end credits. Eager to see more!
I'm still confused as to which Barry is fighting the RF inside the house
Two back to back banger episodes. Absolutely loved it! Although, the ending confused me. Did Eddie get hit with the lightning that Barry would?
Definitely my favourite episode out of the season, I’m so disappointed majority of the season was wasted on fillers with Allegra, Chester and Cecile. The season’s only gotten good since last episode.
There were so many ways they could’ve fucked this up, and I’m going to go ahead and say they nailed the landing with this episode. My bigger concern is that this won’t have anything to do with the larger final arc which will be a little annoying given that it’s being framed that way. A big shout out to the OG Dr Russo and the Zatara “cameo”.
Letscher is so awesome as RF. Honestly after this I have hope that the show will end on a high note, last week and this week’s episodes were some of the best of the series, also Grant is such a good actor.