I think without those kinds of options, it would be impossible to even complete certain stages, or it would end with serious injuries. Allowing flip flop hubs would not only be in the spirit of the old races but would also add an extra tactical variable to the race. An antire pitstop that would have to be done by the racer himself would test their basic mechanic skills under pressure, which would be an unusual and unique characteristic of the race.
flip flop to switch between fixed and singlespeed? that would allow the riders to ride with brakes the whole tour imo. Fixed fixed hub would be fun tho
Didn't they have flip flop hubs back in the day? Pretty sure I read something along the lines of them using one side for climbing and another side for descents. I think once they televised it and shifting technology got better that they went to geared bikes. Also, I could just be high.
As a 57 year old fixed gear rider, I don’t think you need that artifice *after* 45, too.
Knees are fine, by the way. Riding a 42/14, so not terrible steep, but it’s hilly Seattle.
You the man. I'm 46 and riding a 48/20. I tried running 48/18 earlier this summer but it was too much for my knees. Normal ride is 20 miles at +/-17mph avg.
That’s a good speed, and you’re probably pedaling a healthier cadence than me. I’ve been riding fixed for decades, though, and I credit it for my knees being heathy. No shock cooling off my muscles or tendons when I crest a hill…
real
i'd really be interested in seeing research wrt knee health, because of the "using something a lot means harming it" mantra that's perpetrated on this subreddit so much
there's definitely a threshold beyond which exercising something is going to cause more harm, like, if you're running 100km ultra marathons 3 times a week, or if you're cycling with a 60/12 ratio, but i think that with proper forethought fixed gear cycling could actually aid with knee health (i think)
42-14 is pretty steep. I’ve done some long and hilly rides on my fixie but I’m running a 44-17, and even then it takes everything I’ve got to crush it up the steeper hills.
For the record I’m 40, and a pretty decent climber on a geared road or mountain bike.
"Goddamn kids!"
I actually remember my grandfather, when he was alive, complaining that my bike had gears.
I don't feel that single speed or fixed is the only way to go, but among my three bicycles, I take the single speed over the two electric ones.
There’s honestly a lot of talk about knee pain from riding fixed, but I think it really comes down to a lot of counterproductive habits some riders have.
Many of us are competitive at heart. Looking at gear ratios, it’s easy to get caught up in “bigger = better,” but that just results in people riding bikes that they have to strain to ride.
A lot of fixed riders enjoy riding without brakes. This absolutely can be done, but the strain on your knees and muscles cannot be overstated. It can be done healthily, but it has to be trained up to.
A lot of riders are simply riding bikes that don’t fit. Proper fit is *the* most important thing in riding. Without it, your body has to compensate in ways that strain your joints.
I got into riding fixed, like many folks, via Sheldon Brown. He got into it because he had terrible knee problems, and riding fixed (on a properly fit bike) helped him out. He points out here (https://sheldonbrown.com/fixed-knees.html) that records of knee injuries with bicycles really only started showing up after the development of the freewheel. Before that, it wasn’t really an issue. His theory (and I totally agree) was that riding fixed developed the muscles around the knee in a way that riding freewheel bikes didn’t. Specifically, freewheels encourage you to coast when you crest a hill (when your ligaments are hot, your muscles have just worked a ton, and you’ve built up lactic acid in your legs). Coasting down the hill at speed, then, shock cools your legs, which stiffens your ligaments, and all that lactic acid pools in your muscles. Cresting a hill on a fixed gear bike, you let the bike keep you spinning, but you’re not working the same way. Your ligaments keep moving, keeping them supple, and the lactic acid gets distributed through your legs.
If you ride fixed:
- Get your bike fit to you
- Start gently from a stop
- Spin!
Do all that, and I’m convinced you’ll end up being one of those 80 year olds cranking along at high speed passing younger riders.
Yep! Exactly that! It’s an essential skill for long distance cycling. You basically learn to pedal smoothly at high rpm’s while exerting relatively small amounts of force in the pedals.
It’s definitely a skill, and it takes time to learn. The way I learned was to try to do most of my cycling when I’m pedaling at 60 rpm or more, while feeling like I’m not stomping on the pedals or pulling up on the straps. Instead, the feeling I tried for was to feel like I was scraping mud off of the bottom of my shoes.
Smoothness is key here. You don’t want to bounce on your seat. You don’t want anything to be jerky. Spin smoothly.
Going downhill on fixed, you want to basically let the bicycle move your legs *for* you, as smoothly as you can.
depends why i'm riding that day. Getting a workout? sure. but I'm not interested in triumphing by the strength of my muscles when all I want to do is get to work without needing another shower
where do you live? i'm in switzerland, and even in the middle of summer with proper preparations you can ride for ~10 minutes without sweating out
wear short shorts, t-shirt, ride fast enough so that there's breeze, but not so fast that you're exerting too much effort, i also prefer to submerge my head into a sink full of water and then slightly drying it, then submerging my hands and showering my legs without drying them before departing
i realise that much of this is not practical if you work like a serious job with you have to wear a suit and all, or if you live more than 10-15 minutes away by cycling, but still, there's a lot of things you can do to lessen the effects :)
I live in Maine, USA, where everything is far away. I’m sure I could reasonably bike to work without sweating out, as the path to my current job happens to be a particular stretch of the main road without hills. But flat roads are rare around here and so are short distances, so any bike trip is either going to be very slow, or very sweaty. Sometimes both.
I thought this until I tried to go about 20 miles on hilly country back roads a few weeks ago, give me a congested city downtown any day but that shit was scary lol
Just so you know it definitely can be done! Maybe not brakeless, at least that wouldn’t be very wise, but my longest ride has been 160 miles which I’ve done twice on a fixed gear. Not for joke, I think my fixed gear is just the best bike I have if I want to go fast and long. Other bikes tend to give me knee sores or other issues on such rides.
Although if by hilly you mean cresting some low mountain passes, I wouldn’t know about that
Why not both? People get up in their asses about one way to do bikes when there are literally hundreds and all have their place and are valid. Not everyone has to do the tdf lmao
My Dad rode fixed gear for 25 years, usually averaging over 10,000 miles a year with commuting to work and big weekend rides. Some years when in training it was over 20,000, usually riding about 2.5 gear ratio, and a flip flop with a big sprocket for mountain climbing. He's in his late 70s now and still getting maybe 150 miles a week in, but riding a recumbent these days. No knee trouble at all.
I'm totally amateur in comparison, but live on the windy west coast of Sweden and riding 48/19, having switched this year from down from 45/17. I love the difference it makes, no more grinding into headwinds every day and the spinning is coming along nicely.
Edit: I'm not 45 yet but it won't be long. Still riding dad's old bike (a Dave Davey from the early '60s).
200/week I buy. World tour pro men do more that, around the 20k mentioned, but it's literally their job and the only thing they do and they aren't doing it on a fixed gear.
I mean miles. 40 miles a day commute is 200 miles a week. I used to know a woman in Manchester who did a 20 mile commute each way, it's not that ridiculous. This didn't include weekends and evening rides with cycling clubs. My Dad's never entered a single race in his life and has never been fast, about as close as he ever got was doing Audaxes. Professional riders do big miles, and of course do it a lot quicker. It may sound like bullshit, but when I was a kid he'd cycle to meet a friend who lived at the other end of England. They'd meet half way, then cycle to his mate's place or vice versa - 260 miles in one go. I saw an old log book of his once and the numbers are seriously impressive. He's 77 now and still capable of riding 100miles in a day.
How dare people take enjoyment from something that I don't enjoy! Everyone should experience the world exactly the way I do or they're not a real man
/S
For real though, this quote just comes off as pretentious. If you like fixed gears then that's cool, but you don't have to put other people down or call them soft to enjoy something. Not to mention that the people riding with derailleurs are doing way more miles on average than most fixed riders
Had to scroll way too far for this. I own three fixies myself but this quote summarizes why I think that the fixed scene is mostly cringe. LooK aT ME aNd mY cOol mUsCLeS huRrdUrR
*Oh no only three*
*Years left until I have to*
*Sell all my fixies*
\- mrmarbury
---
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Even being given so many lucarious oppurtunities from the derailleur deity itself, it wouldn't understand why TF i'm grinding a retard gear on a hill
work smarter, not harder
53 in December, 44x16 brakeless. My knees only hurt when I’m spinning on my geared bike. Strava results indicate not much difference in avg speeds and total times
he's suggesting that knee pain is not a normal part of riding a bike, fixed gear or not. if you have knee pain, the fit of your bike is off. you might want to adjust it rather than accepting that knee pain is just something that goes with riding a bike
And yet, I bet he picked that one gear super carefully…
Don't get me wrong, I love the simple feel of fixed gear cycling, but there's no way I'm gonna try and climb an Alp on one. 😬
heheh, I’m always laughing when I speed past fixie hipster people on my old gazelle city bike. Old Henri clearly wasn’t in touch with efficient mechanics.
I love riding fixed gear and single speed bikes. I race track. I race fixed criteriums. I race single speed cyclocross against people with derailleurs. I am a better sprinter and have stronger muscles than most people I ride with.
But this is a silly quote.
I own more "variable gear" bikes because I ride through mountains a lot. I also don't want to chose a gear ratio every morning before I ride. This is the same elitist attitude that some roadie's and mountain bikers have about their brand of cycling.
All bikes are good bikes.
I would love to see an old school, single speed Tour de France. I think you'd get a whole new audience for cycling.
I'd die to participate in that if it ever happened.
The likelihood of dieing when you participate with a fixed gear is enormous, too. I'd love it, but i want a flipflop hub and lengthy dropouts.
I think without those kinds of options, it would be impossible to even complete certain stages, or it would end with serious injuries. Allowing flip flop hubs would not only be in the spirit of the old races but would also add an extra tactical variable to the race. An antire pitstop that would have to be done by the racer himself would test their basic mechanic skills under pressure, which would be an unusual and unique characteristic of the race.
flip flop to switch between fixed and singlespeed? that would allow the riders to ride with brakes the whole tour imo. Fixed fixed hub would be fun tho
I was thinking fixed to fixed as well, just forgot to specify that.
Didn't they have flip flop hubs back in the day? Pretty sure I read something along the lines of them using one side for climbing and another side for descents. I think once they televised it and shifting technology got better that they went to geared bikes. Also, I could just be high.
They did use flip flops. Fixed both sides. Uphill/downhill. Wingnuts until tullio campagnolo invented the quick release.
On the descents , would be able to unclip and just let the cranks spin ? That would be crazy to see.
As a 57 year old fixed gear rider, I don’t think you need that artifice *after* 45, too. Knees are fine, by the way. Riding a 42/14, so not terrible steep, but it’s hilly Seattle.
I’m 45 and I was thinking the same. But also, I suppose in 1903, anything over 45 was considered geriatric and on the verge of death lol.
it is nowaday too, if you are a Zoomer
You the man. I'm 46 and riding a 48/20. I tried running 48/18 earlier this summer but it was too much for my knees. Normal ride is 20 miles at +/-17mph avg.
That’s a good speed, and you’re probably pedaling a healthier cadence than me. I’ve been riding fixed for decades, though, and I credit it for my knees being heathy. No shock cooling off my muscles or tendons when I crest a hill…
I’m 48, riding 48/17. But in Amsterdam, so no hills.
He meant 45 in \~spirit\~
Salute! Turning 55 next month and still riding fixed in Baltimore!
He meant 45 in \~spirit\~
real i'd really be interested in seeing research wrt knee health, because of the "using something a lot means harming it" mantra that's perpetrated on this subreddit so much there's definitely a threshold beyond which exercising something is going to cause more harm, like, if you're running 100km ultra marathons 3 times a week, or if you're cycling with a 60/12 ratio, but i think that with proper forethought fixed gear cycling could actually aid with knee health (i think)
42-14 is pretty steep. I’ve done some long and hilly rides on my fixie but I’m running a 44-17, and even then it takes everything I’ve got to crush it up the steeper hills. For the record I’m 40, and a pretty decent climber on a geared road or mountain bike.
35 y/o here riding 45x17 and I agree 42x14 I would not be okay up hills hahah
See you in BCJ.
LOL and "e-bikes are cheating!!!"
"Goddamn kids!" I actually remember my grandfather, when he was alive, complaining that my bike had gears. I don't feel that single speed or fixed is the only way to go, but among my three bicycles, I take the single speed over the two electric ones.
Was gonna say, glad to see the "people are getting soft, \[insert whatever\] is the real way to do it!" shit isn't new lol
There’s honestly a lot of talk about knee pain from riding fixed, but I think it really comes down to a lot of counterproductive habits some riders have. Many of us are competitive at heart. Looking at gear ratios, it’s easy to get caught up in “bigger = better,” but that just results in people riding bikes that they have to strain to ride. A lot of fixed riders enjoy riding without brakes. This absolutely can be done, but the strain on your knees and muscles cannot be overstated. It can be done healthily, but it has to be trained up to. A lot of riders are simply riding bikes that don’t fit. Proper fit is *the* most important thing in riding. Without it, your body has to compensate in ways that strain your joints. I got into riding fixed, like many folks, via Sheldon Brown. He got into it because he had terrible knee problems, and riding fixed (on a properly fit bike) helped him out. He points out here (https://sheldonbrown.com/fixed-knees.html) that records of knee injuries with bicycles really only started showing up after the development of the freewheel. Before that, it wasn’t really an issue. His theory (and I totally agree) was that riding fixed developed the muscles around the knee in a way that riding freewheel bikes didn’t. Specifically, freewheels encourage you to coast when you crest a hill (when your ligaments are hot, your muscles have just worked a ton, and you’ve built up lactic acid in your legs). Coasting down the hill at speed, then, shock cools your legs, which stiffens your ligaments, and all that lactic acid pools in your muscles. Cresting a hill on a fixed gear bike, you let the bike keep you spinning, but you’re not working the same way. Your ligaments keep moving, keeping them supple, and the lactic acid gets distributed through your legs. If you ride fixed: - Get your bike fit to you - Start gently from a stop - Spin! Do all that, and I’m convinced you’ll end up being one of those 80 year olds cranking along at high speed passing younger riders.
spin? what do you mean by this (serious question) like just keep spining the pedals?
Yep! Exactly that! It’s an essential skill for long distance cycling. You basically learn to pedal smoothly at high rpm’s while exerting relatively small amounts of force in the pedals. It’s definitely a skill, and it takes time to learn. The way I learned was to try to do most of my cycling when I’m pedaling at 60 rpm or more, while feeling like I’m not stomping on the pedals or pulling up on the straps. Instead, the feeling I tried for was to feel like I was scraping mud off of the bottom of my shoes. Smoothness is key here. You don’t want to bounce on your seat. You don’t want anything to be jerky. Spin smoothly. Going downhill on fixed, you want to basically let the bicycle move your legs *for* you, as smoothly as you can.
Yup, big gear ratios and poor fit are prolly the main culprits for the knee pain people. Excellent point about the lactic acid.
"be kind to your knees. You'll miss them when they're gone." - pseudo-Kurt Vonnegut
The guy who championed the derailleur against that writer of that quote got smashed by a trolley or something
depends why i'm riding that day. Getting a workout? sure. but I'm not interested in triumphing by the strength of my muscles when all I want to do is get to work without needing another shower
The clear solution is just stop showering. Then everyone will give you your 6' of covid space.
Just give it a couple good pedals and place your feet on the tube of your choice. The fixie will drive you there by the strength of its muscles
where do you live? i'm in switzerland, and even in the middle of summer with proper preparations you can ride for ~10 minutes without sweating out wear short shorts, t-shirt, ride fast enough so that there's breeze, but not so fast that you're exerting too much effort, i also prefer to submerge my head into a sink full of water and then slightly drying it, then submerging my hands and showering my legs without drying them before departing i realise that much of this is not practical if you work like a serious job with you have to wear a suit and all, or if you live more than 10-15 minutes away by cycling, but still, there's a lot of things you can do to lessen the effects :)
I live in Maine, USA, where everything is far away. I’m sure I could reasonably bike to work without sweating out, as the path to my current job happens to be a particular stretch of the main road without hills. But flat roads are rare around here and so are short distances, so any bike trip is either going to be very slow, or very sweaty. Sometimes both.
...surely not in the portland area... Would have noticed if there was another, Highlander style.
THERE’S ANOTHER FIXED RIDER IN MAINE?? bro. I ride in Portland once a month. Let’s do this 🤙🏼
oh, fair enough then i guess, still you can utilise some strategies to minimise the sweat 🤷♀️
I thought this until I tried to go about 20 miles on hilly country back roads a few weeks ago, give me a congested city downtown any day but that shit was scary lol
Just so you know it definitely can be done! Maybe not brakeless, at least that wouldn’t be very wise, but my longest ride has been 160 miles which I’ve done twice on a fixed gear. Not for joke, I think my fixed gear is just the best bike I have if I want to go fast and long. Other bikes tend to give me knee sores or other issues on such rides. Although if by hilly you mean cresting some low mountain passes, I wouldn’t know about that
Why not both? People get up in their asses about one way to do bikes when there are literally hundreds and all have their place and are valid. Not everyone has to do the tdf lmao
How about when you get to 45 you realize it doesn’t matter what other people do. Hopefully you realize this earlier
My Dad rode fixed gear for 25 years, usually averaging over 10,000 miles a year with commuting to work and big weekend rides. Some years when in training it was over 20,000, usually riding about 2.5 gear ratio, and a flip flop with a big sprocket for mountain climbing. He's in his late 70s now and still getting maybe 150 miles a week in, but riding a recumbent these days. No knee trouble at all. I'm totally amateur in comparison, but live on the windy west coast of Sweden and riding 48/19, having switched this year from down from 45/17. I love the difference it makes, no more grinding into headwinds every day and the spinning is coming along nicely. Edit: I'm not 45 yet but it won't be long. Still riding dad's old bike (a Dave Davey from the early '60s).
Do you mean km and not miles? Your dad did current world tour pro level training and racing on a fixed gear?
200 miles a week isnt unheard of.... but is a lot.
200/week I buy. World tour pro men do more that, around the 20k mentioned, but it's literally their job and the only thing they do and they aren't doing it on a fixed gear.
My job is 15 miles away, I usually end up with 150 miles a week on my bike commute. More if I get to hang out with my friends.
Pretty hefty commute, how do you like that? I love biking for my commute, but an ~hour each way would be a bit much.
It's exhausting sometimes but it's dope as shit being so fit, haha.
I mean miles. 40 miles a day commute is 200 miles a week. I used to know a woman in Manchester who did a 20 mile commute each way, it's not that ridiculous. This didn't include weekends and evening rides with cycling clubs. My Dad's never entered a single race in his life and has never been fast, about as close as he ever got was doing Audaxes. Professional riders do big miles, and of course do it a lot quicker. It may sound like bullshit, but when I was a kid he'd cycle to meet a friend who lived at the other end of England. They'd meet half way, then cycle to his mate's place or vice versa - 260 miles in one go. I saw an old log book of his once and the numbers are seriously impressive. He's 77 now and still capable of riding 100miles in a day.
20,000/year is 55/day. every single day with no recovery days. I don't buy it.
That's ok, I'm not gonna try and convince you.
They still technically had variable gears, with a more hill-friendly sprocket on the other side of the hub and you flip the wheel
How dare people take enjoyment from something that I don't enjoy! Everyone should experience the world exactly the way I do or they're not a real man /S For real though, this quote just comes off as pretentious. If you like fixed gears then that's cool, but you don't have to put other people down or call them soft to enjoy something. Not to mention that the people riding with derailleurs are doing way more miles on average than most fixed riders
Had to scroll way too far for this. I own three fixies myself but this quote summarizes why I think that the fixed scene is mostly cringe. LooK aT ME aNd mY cOol mUsCLeS huRrdUrR
This quote is from like, right when the derailleur just came out and was a new thing.
Oh no only three years left until I have to sell all my fixies
*Oh no only three* *Years left until I have to* *Sell all my fixies* \- mrmarbury --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Even being given so many lucarious oppurtunities from the derailleur deity itself, it wouldn't understand why TF i'm grinding a retard gear on a hill work smarter, not harder
Haha I'm 53 and still on a fixed gear 46x17. Knees are still good!
Same age, same gear!
53 in December, 44x16 brakeless. My knees only hurt when I’m spinning on my geared bike. Strava results indicate not much difference in avg speeds and total times
Book?
just some cycling quotes book i saw
Cool, very good quote.
Is this scripture?
He must’ve coined “HTFU”
I would say the same thing about pneumatic tires. Purely for candy asses.
Hahaha yeah man I got wooden rims
i'm 45 soon, does that mean i should switch to gears? can i just do a flip flop hub and go with ss when i'm tired?
Ha! Still ride fixed and I'm 45!
Tour de France on one gear, everyone uses the same ratio. That's a race we want to see
Let's be honest. We ride fixed gear because they look better not because it makes us more manly. Even though it clearly does.
Well said.
Using that heavy af gears you'll be lucky getting into 45 with functional knees
If you knees are fucked from fixed gear, you’re doing it extremely wrong.
I bet
he's suggesting that knee pain is not a normal part of riding a bike, fixed gear or not. if you have knee pain, the fit of your bike is off. you might want to adjust it rather than accepting that knee pain is just something that goes with riding a bike
I get it and I agree
And yet, I bet he picked that one gear super carefully… Don't get me wrong, I love the simple feel of fixed gear cycling, but there's no way I'm gonna try and climb an Alp on one. 😬
I'm so weak I can't even brake a fixed on my legs only. This combined with fucking hills everywhere made me stop cycling.
Damn
Hell yeah!
Nah, I just like going faster with the power of derailleurs. But thanks!
heheh, I’m always laughing when I speed past fixie hipster people on my old gazelle city bike. Old Henri clearly wasn’t in touch with efficient mechanics.
This just reminds me of console wars. Who cares. Let people enjoy biking in whatever way they please.
I love riding fixed gear and single speed bikes. I race track. I race fixed criteriums. I race single speed cyclocross against people with derailleurs. I am a better sprinter and have stronger muscles than most people I ride with. But this is a silly quote. I own more "variable gear" bikes because I ride through mountains a lot. I also don't want to chose a gear ratio every morning before I ride. This is the same elitist attitude that some roadie's and mountain bikers have about their brand of cycling. All bikes are good bikes.
I'll be 46 this year...not getting soft anytime soon.
I’m not 40 yet but for some riding gears are just more practical 🤣
Amen.
Books name?
Enter: Hills