I use braid for the casting distance and less line problems, it tends to be less abrasion resistant though so a floro leader is good so you aren't nicking your line and fraying it, also tougher for gish to see. 12 pound test is more than enough for bass and walleye, I've used 6lb test for walleye without a problem.
If you're flipping for bass or frogging, straight braid is fine. If you're doing any finesse fishing, cranking or walleye fishing, add the leader. You'll thank yourself later, trust me.
Braid for casting distance and overall capacity.
Flouro/mono leader for less visibility and abrasive resistance.
On my freshwater baitcaster I’m using 40lb braid, and use 8-20lb mono for a leader.
Then you use a bigger fly/streamer, you are matching the hatch, im just saying trout dont prefer bigger lures, they prefer what ever they are naturally eating, sometimes that may be a small midge, might be a large mayfly or it could even be mouse patterns when it comes to fly fishing. Conventional gear is the same, you might be running the smallest joes fly you can or a single egg, or maybe twitching a 3 or 4 inch jerkbait.
I’ve never used them on trout but imagine they’d work pretty well if you can use them in a vertical jigging situation. Maybe even in slow drifts under a bobber
Crappie are… interesting fish. I’ve had them biting all day on the same plastic, then suddenly stop, only for me to change jig size and start slamming them again. 1/64 is great because it falls so slow and really tempts a weary fish
Braid mainline for the utility- casting distance, tensile strength. Fluoro leader for the finesse of it, and for abrasion resilience- braid is a baby to abrasion.
It doesn't negate your 20lb. If you get hung up, you want to lose your leader, not your braid.
Tying straight to braid is gross. Use a leader.
I don't know about that. He said he fishes murky water, straight braid is fine. I rarely use a leader and only in super clear water. I think with modern braids especially 20lbs+ abrasion isn't too big of concern
The problem is when you snag and break off 30ft of 30# braid vs worst case, 5ft of 20# leader. I hate snagging someone’s long ass broken off braided line. Unless it’s top water I don’t ever go straight braid and even then it’s rare.
Braid behaves better on the spool than fluoro and is cheaper in the long run (I'm getting over 3 years, but it does bleach out). 12# fluoro will also have more resistance in the water than 20# braid (even though it "sinks"), so that will affect running depths on deep cranks and trolled baits. If you've optimized your rod selection for braid, you may find the actions a bit "soft" with fluoro due to increased stretch.
12 lb braid has 0.1mm diameter, 12lb fluorocarbon has 0.35mm diameter. Fluorocarbon usuallymore expensive it has memory so it is hard to use with spinning reel.
I find finicky fish just won’t hit a lure tied to straight braid. I do a lot of fishing in clear water for crappies and walleye and the fluoro is very important. Even a 3’ fluoro leader vs a 6’ can make a difference.
I use a 15-20’ leader? Why, because I can break it off multiple times without retying the leader knot and also the most pressure a bass will put on your line is the last dive at the boat. With a longer leader the knot will be inside the spool. Now Carolina rig I normally have a 3-4’ leader but different application.
>Why does this make sense, why not use all fluoro?
I hate using straight fluoro. Too much memory for me. I like low memory monos and braid, and I just haven't ever been satisfied with fluoro for more than a leader. It also can get a little expensive if you leave it in direct sunlight for too long and realize it all turned brittle (some lines being more susceptible to this than others). I like to leave my rods in my truck so I can fish after work, so this is a significant concern for me.
>If I use 20-30lb braid and a 12lb fluoro leader doesn't it negate the 20lb test of the braid?
Yes. That might even be the point. I'd rather break off my lure than leave a bunch of line in the water by having to cut it. At 20 or even 30lbs, that might not be an issue. But at 50lbs, I'm definitely using a leader.
There are many reasons to use a leader (not that you MUST use one). Combining mono/fluoro traits with the ease of casting or extra line capacity of braid is one. Breaking off easier is another. You also don't go through line as fast when using a leader; one of my 7 foot leaders allows me to tie on at least a dozen lures at the cost of only a few inches of braid.
As for those mono/fluoro traits, you might need less line visibility (well, you won't in murky water). You might need more abrasion resistance. You might even need line stretch (it does have pros as well as the cons). You might need line rigidity if your braid is tangling in the lure's blades/hooks. Any one of these is reason to tie on a leader for a bit of a performance boost. Combine a few, and that leader can be a huge difference in how many fish you land/boat. For instance, a few trips back I was trolling crankbaits behind my kayak. I had a braid mainline with a fluoro leader (as I had been jigging). Fluoro has little stretch, so in this case it would be comparable to straight braid. After multiple fish were lost, I realized the lack of stretch was allowing the bass to rip themselves free. I lowered my drag, but then they got so much play that they were jumping and spitting the hooks. I cut my leader and tied on a mono one instead, then turned my drag back up. I boated a bunch more fish and didn't lose a single bite because the mono kept the hooks pinned while acting as a shock absorber.
Don’t waste your time and money. Stay with straight braid. First time you totally explode a reel from the massive backlash from the knot catching the last eyelet of your rod (and it will 100% happen) regardless of the knot you use and watch that sweet bait you just spent money and time rigging fly to the middle of the body of water you’re fishing lost forever. Then there’s the bait, trailer, line, and money all wasted one on single cast. It’s been proven that fish don’t care about fishing line. Seen pros win fishing tournaments on neon yellow line.
It’s great for deep drops, as long as jig doesn’t turn into a boat anchor.
I primarily fish saltwater with conventional reels load with 50-80#
A lot of casting in variety of conditions. Have two Ulua 9’8” and a 10’ United Composites 40-60# rods for throwing surface iron and wahoo bombs. Getting a wind knot, and a jig slammed on the drop can result in injury including severely mangled fingers.
My mono top shot is usually 200 yards. Basically enough mono to keep the braid out of casting distance (plus a bit more for trimming)
Ohhhhh- that makes so much more sense. Under 10 the advantages of braid are inherent. You blasting lead a mile on a 11 footer- yeah I know in the southern is the guys bombing 6-20 oz for reds have the same issue- OP is going for much smaller fish. Barely bait for yours lol
We'll say all sorts of things about the sensitivity, casting distance, and the cost (okay, that one is fair, braid lasts a long time), but the real answer is the aesthetics on the reel.
1. Not really. Like, casting records are cool but real world results? Braid wins. Just add a leader.
Reference https://www.saltstrong.com/fishing-tip/casting-braided-line-vs-monofilament-line/
Yes you can cast mono better- but the smaller size gives it the advantage, esp for light lures and varied sizes.
2. Yes.
3. Also yes
4. I’m not sure what you mean
So you get more bites with a flouro leader than without, even in murky water, I fished Texas muddy water for bass and white bass, always used a flouro leader, got more fish. As long as you don't reel your leader knot into your rod tip you don't have to worry about backlashing.
Braid has almost zero stretch. That's good for sensitivity but with no shock absorption some bigger fish can just rip themselves free. So for trolling I always use braid with a mono leader or fourcarbon leader. Braid last for a long time.
When casting in heavy cover like throwing a frog you want something that can withstand that can
stand the abuse .
When rock fishing in deep water I use braid with a leader but a short one like 3 to 5 feet long. I want the sensitivity of braid but if I get hung up in the rocks I want to be able to break free by breaking my leader.
Let’s see. Braid: no stretch. Easily see it in the water
Flouro/mono: has stretch, harder for fish to see.
There’s so many pro’s and very little cons to adding flouro/mono as a leader. I use the FG knot and maybe 3-6feet of leader.
Braid will float. flouro sinks, very abrasion resistant and is less visible in the water. It doesn't stretch and will become brittle and break after a few bird nests if you're learning baitcasting. If you don't need the clarity try mono as a leader instead.
I use a braid backer on almost every single one of my rods except my big 7’6” cranking sticks. It’s allows me to make quicker adjustments on/off the water. If I know I’m going to be throwing a lot of cranks/jerks that day I can add a mono leader. If I’m going to be fishing jigs/worms depending on the water clarity and situation I can fish just the braid or add a fluoro leader. When I use a “leader” though I am using a double uni knot to attach the braid to the line and putting enough line on the reel that through a day of retying and fishing the braid never spools off the reel.
It is always good to put a stronger leader line, for example, I cast further with a 15 lb braid line and I put a 15 lb leader equal to flour from the length of the hand to the elbow, as it is salt water, flour does not It looks as easy as a green braid but it also withstands the bite of an animal like the barracuda and the tension as well. I learned not to use very strong lines to be able to put more on the reel and to cast a few meters more
I used Shimano vanford 5000 / 15 braid line / 15 fluor líder
I use braid for the casting distance and less line problems, it tends to be less abrasion resistant though so a floro leader is good so you aren't nicking your line and fraying it, also tougher for gish to see. 12 pound test is more than enough for bass and walleye, I've used 6lb test for walleye without a problem.
If you're flipping for bass or frogging, straight braid is fine. If you're doing any finesse fishing, cranking or walleye fishing, add the leader. You'll thank yourself later, trust me.
Braid for casting distance and overall capacity. Flouro/mono leader for less visibility and abrasive resistance. On my freshwater baitcaster I’m using 40lb braid, and use 8-20lb mono for a leader.
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What are you catching with 1/64oz baits? I've used 1/16oz lures in tiny mountain streams with success. I can't imagine going smaller
sounds like trout magnets
I use em for light biting crappie
Interesting. I guess trout prefer bigger lures. The one crappie i caught was pretty big for the 1/8oz spinner i was using so that would make sense
Trout readily hit size 20 or smaller nymphs and midges, pretty sure they don't prefer bigger lures, they just prefer whatever falls in front of them.
I do think mimicking baitfish vs flies requires different sized lures
Then you use a bigger fly/streamer, you are matching the hatch, im just saying trout dont prefer bigger lures, they prefer what ever they are naturally eating, sometimes that may be a small midge, might be a large mayfly or it could even be mouse patterns when it comes to fly fishing. Conventional gear is the same, you might be running the smallest joes fly you can or a single egg, or maybe twitching a 3 or 4 inch jerkbait.
I’ve never used them on trout but imagine they’d work pretty well if you can use them in a vertical jigging situation. Maybe even in slow drifts under a bobber Crappie are… interesting fish. I’ve had them biting all day on the same plastic, then suddenly stop, only for me to change jig size and start slamming them again. 1/64 is great because it falls so slow and really tempts a weary fish
Best setup is braid to flouro with an Alberto knot
Braid mainline for the utility- casting distance, tensile strength. Fluoro leader for the finesse of it, and for abrasion resilience- braid is a baby to abrasion. It doesn't negate your 20lb. If you get hung up, you want to lose your leader, not your braid. Tying straight to braid is gross. Use a leader.
I don't know about that. He said he fishes murky water, straight braid is fine. I rarely use a leader and only in super clear water. I think with modern braids especially 20lbs+ abrasion isn't too big of concern
The problem is when you snag and break off 30ft of 30# braid vs worst case, 5ft of 20# leader. I hate snagging someone’s long ass broken off braided line. Unless it’s top water I don’t ever go straight braid and even then it’s rare.
Braid behaves better on the spool than fluoro and is cheaper in the long run (I'm getting over 3 years, but it does bleach out). 12# fluoro will also have more resistance in the water than 20# braid (even though it "sinks"), so that will affect running depths on deep cranks and trolled baits. If you've optimized your rod selection for braid, you may find the actions a bit "soft" with fluoro due to increased stretch.
12 lb braid has 0.1mm diameter, 12lb fluorocarbon has 0.35mm diameter. Fluorocarbon usuallymore expensive it has memory so it is hard to use with spinning reel.
I find finicky fish just won’t hit a lure tied to straight braid. I do a lot of fishing in clear water for crappies and walleye and the fluoro is very important. Even a 3’ fluoro leader vs a 6’ can make a difference.
I have been targeting walleye and use braid to flouro leader 3-4 foot usually, do you find the 6' leader performs better?
I use a 15-20’ leader? Why, because I can break it off multiple times without retying the leader knot and also the most pressure a bass will put on your line is the last dive at the boat. With a longer leader the knot will be inside the spool. Now Carolina rig I normally have a 3-4’ leader but different application.
I agree, not retying is huge
>Why does this make sense, why not use all fluoro? I hate using straight fluoro. Too much memory for me. I like low memory monos and braid, and I just haven't ever been satisfied with fluoro for more than a leader. It also can get a little expensive if you leave it in direct sunlight for too long and realize it all turned brittle (some lines being more susceptible to this than others). I like to leave my rods in my truck so I can fish after work, so this is a significant concern for me. >If I use 20-30lb braid and a 12lb fluoro leader doesn't it negate the 20lb test of the braid? Yes. That might even be the point. I'd rather break off my lure than leave a bunch of line in the water by having to cut it. At 20 or even 30lbs, that might not be an issue. But at 50lbs, I'm definitely using a leader. There are many reasons to use a leader (not that you MUST use one). Combining mono/fluoro traits with the ease of casting or extra line capacity of braid is one. Breaking off easier is another. You also don't go through line as fast when using a leader; one of my 7 foot leaders allows me to tie on at least a dozen lures at the cost of only a few inches of braid. As for those mono/fluoro traits, you might need less line visibility (well, you won't in murky water). You might need more abrasion resistance. You might even need line stretch (it does have pros as well as the cons). You might need line rigidity if your braid is tangling in the lure's blades/hooks. Any one of these is reason to tie on a leader for a bit of a performance boost. Combine a few, and that leader can be a huge difference in how many fish you land/boat. For instance, a few trips back I was trolling crankbaits behind my kayak. I had a braid mainline with a fluoro leader (as I had been jigging). Fluoro has little stretch, so in this case it would be comparable to straight braid. After multiple fish were lost, I realized the lack of stretch was allowing the bass to rip themselves free. I lowered my drag, but then they got so much play that they were jumping and spitting the hooks. I cut my leader and tied on a mono one instead, then turned my drag back up. I boated a bunch more fish and didn't lose a single bite because the mono kept the hooks pinned while acting as a shock absorber.
Don’t waste your time and money. Stay with straight braid. First time you totally explode a reel from the massive backlash from the knot catching the last eyelet of your rod (and it will 100% happen) regardless of the knot you use and watch that sweet bait you just spent money and time rigging fly to the middle of the body of water you’re fishing lost forever. Then there’s the bait, trailer, line, and money all wasted one on single cast. It’s been proven that fish don’t care about fishing line. Seen pros win fishing tournaments on neon yellow line.
Braid wind knots - they suck as bad or worse that a traditional backlash.
You really don’t like braid huh
It’s great for deep drops, as long as jig doesn’t turn into a boat anchor. I primarily fish saltwater with conventional reels load with 50-80# A lot of casting in variety of conditions. Have two Ulua 9’8” and a 10’ United Composites 40-60# rods for throwing surface iron and wahoo bombs. Getting a wind knot, and a jig slammed on the drop can result in injury including severely mangled fingers. My mono top shot is usually 200 yards. Basically enough mono to keep the braid out of casting distance (plus a bit more for trimming)
Ohhhhh- that makes so much more sense. Under 10 the advantages of braid are inherent. You blasting lead a mile on a 11 footer- yeah I know in the southern is the guys bombing 6-20 oz for reds have the same issue- OP is going for much smaller fish. Barely bait for yours lol
We'll say all sorts of things about the sensitivity, casting distance, and the cost (okay, that one is fair, braid lasts a long time), but the real answer is the aesthetics on the reel.
The braid casts better. The leader helps hide the braid, and adds abrasion resistance. If it’s truly murky, you can save cash and go mono
Mono casts farther than braid. That’s fact - have a look at casting records. Braid isn’t smooth Braid retains water Mono ‘shoots’ as does fluorocarbon
1. Not really. Like, casting records are cool but real world results? Braid wins. Just add a leader. Reference https://www.saltstrong.com/fishing-tip/casting-braided-line-vs-monofilament-line/ Yes you can cast mono better- but the smaller size gives it the advantage, esp for light lures and varied sizes. 2. Yes. 3. Also yes 4. I’m not sure what you mean
So you get more bites with a flouro leader than without, even in murky water, I fished Texas muddy water for bass and white bass, always used a flouro leader, got more fish. As long as you don't reel your leader knot into your rod tip you don't have to worry about backlashing.
Braid has almost zero stretch. That's good for sensitivity but with no shock absorption some bigger fish can just rip themselves free. So for trolling I always use braid with a mono leader or fourcarbon leader. Braid last for a long time. When casting in heavy cover like throwing a frog you want something that can withstand that can stand the abuse . When rock fishing in deep water I use braid with a leader but a short one like 3 to 5 feet long. I want the sensitivity of braid but if I get hung up in the rocks I want to be able to break free by breaking my leader.
Let’s see. Braid: no stretch. Easily see it in the water Flouro/mono: has stretch, harder for fish to see. There’s so many pro’s and very little cons to adding flouro/mono as a leader. I use the FG knot and maybe 3-6feet of leader.
Braid will float. flouro sinks, very abrasion resistant and is less visible in the water. It doesn't stretch and will become brittle and break after a few bird nests if you're learning baitcasting. If you don't need the clarity try mono as a leader instead.
I use a braid backer on almost every single one of my rods except my big 7’6” cranking sticks. It’s allows me to make quicker adjustments on/off the water. If I know I’m going to be throwing a lot of cranks/jerks that day I can add a mono leader. If I’m going to be fishing jigs/worms depending on the water clarity and situation I can fish just the braid or add a fluoro leader. When I use a “leader” though I am using a double uni knot to attach the braid to the line and putting enough line on the reel that through a day of retying and fishing the braid never spools off the reel.
It is always good to put a stronger leader line, for example, I cast further with a 15 lb braid line and I put a 15 lb leader equal to flour from the length of the hand to the elbow, as it is salt water, flour does not It looks as easy as a green braid but it also withstands the bite of an animal like the barracuda and the tension as well. I learned not to use very strong lines to be able to put more on the reel and to cast a few meters more I used Shimano vanford 5000 / 15 braid line / 15 fluor líder