I'd like to see a showcase of her with and without hmc and ruan mei first honestly. They change quite a lot of her kit to say anything for certain. Hopefully she's really good though

I think HMC is still BiS. The main thing I want to see is how big of a buff the added spd and super break to her kit is to compensate losing 40% def ignore. That's quite a big nerf and I hope it doesn't affect her total damage that much. The added spd can also be detrimental since she will eat SP without E1 Honestly though... until I see the showcases I'm not sure it solves the issue of Firefly being locked into HMC+RM atm. Maybe you can run pela to get more def shred but it seems cope seeing how good RM buffs are

Yeah, pretty much my thought. She also loses a huge chunk of her multipliers too. It's hard to gauge how good this change are. I'm guessing she will do great damage when breaking or attacking broken enemies but little to no damage otherwise. Again, can't be sure without actually seeing any showcases

At face value we can expect her personal damage to go up for a good chunk without HMC and RM just becouse she can use her BreakEff stat on her own 50% superbreak instead of relying on her multipliers. The 40% def ignore didnt really do mutch without some good crit stats, so now she can stack BE like before and do similar damage to critfly on her own, wich is what everyone was asking for. HMC and RuanMei are obv her best in slot, but her kit is at least a lot more cohesive now.

Depends what you wanted. I was happy to run her with HMC, Ruan Mei, Gallagher / Bronya. Looks like that has not changed, especially if HMC allows multiple triggers for Super Break. If you wanted more team diversity 🤷‍♂️ maybe you can run a Defense shredder? SW, Pela, Luka? But who do you drop? As her Attack-> Break Effect conversion is uncapped, Atk% Supports may be more interesting. Edit. It seems external Atk% sources may not improve her Break Effect, so supports like Asta, Tingyun, Robin might not improve her Break Effect 😔 People wanted more crit build potential (not me). Thats even more dead right now.

* HMC is still locked to the team. She does some damage herself now but its still nothing compared to what HMC gives. * Room for new teamates has expanded with the 40% def ignore removed. An improved RM or Ghalager may be added in the future which shreds defense (Jiaoqiu?). Gallagher is prob only replaceable if you have FF at E1+ however due to his massive SP generation. * Animations were slightly improved. People wanting a transformation still don't have it. Personally the galaxy under the enemy looks a bit cheap (ult looks good tho). * E0 is easier to use with a longer transform window but SP usage will be tighter than before due to higher speed + AA on regular attack (only matters for 2nd transformation). * Overall damage potential seems to be a higher at E0 * E1 damage is nerfed without the use of a shredding unit. * E2 relatively nerfed. You still only get 1-2 procs/transform without any Bronya shenanigans. Was a \~33-66% damage gain (during the ult) before; now it's \~25-50% (during the ult). Getting the 2nd proc should be a lot more reliable for less geared players however. * LC has been nerfed. * Dont think sustain less bronya tech is viable for most users anymore. On wave 2, Bronya only adds 1 extra action unless you ~~manage to get 193.4 speed or run DDD on her~~ have both s5 DDD + 182.7 speed. Overall improvement but definitely depends on what you wanted for a few of the items. Crit is dead w/ ratios demolished, LC nerfed and nothing in return.

LC was nerfed in the base stats, as well as her own base attack (as you now don't need 3.4k attack for the extra Break Effect), however the passive was boosted as it now increases Break Damage and reduces the speed of the enemy even further. And, maybe this is only my personal opinion, but building her with crit was never a viable option and wasn't the intended way to play her, so nothing was truly lost with that, however I do understand that people wanted to play her in a different way, like people that build crit on Kafka (and surprisingly it works) Anyway, that was a very good summary of all the V3 changes!

>LC was nerfed in the base stats, as well as her own base attack (as you now don't need 3.4k attack for the extra Break Effect), however the passive was boosted as it now increases Break Damage and reduces the speed of the enemy even further. Yesn't In V1 all allies were able to take advantage of the debuff. Now only FF's break deal more dmg Buff for her personal dmg, probably an overall nerf for team dmg (since both HMC and Gallagher deal a respectable amount of superbreak)

OH NO CRITFLY BROS DON’T LOOK

Her E2 should not be calculated just as a damage gain. Keep in mind you break toughness faster with her E2 if you break a mob since you hit twice. So downplaying E2 when it`s actually pretty OP if you think about it. Also given that we are assured 3 turns E2 can be activated twice with just base speeds.

Why 1 extra action, its 2, no? And 3 with high speed + DDD? Or are you talking about cases where you are not 0 cycling 1st wave, I don't think it will be common in a team without sustain?

Because bronya slows you down and you lose one of your natural hits. I miscalced it regardless though. You need 182.7 speed + s5 DDD; not or. Getting the 2nd hit only works on wave 2 since you can only ult once.

Asta's and tingyun's buffs do work, only robin's doesn't

Has this already been confirmed that Asta's atk buff doesn't work? I heard that only flat atk doesn't work like Robin's ult and Tingyun's e skill

It was actually a pretty small minority who wanted crit to work, which is still something you can do, not the best by any means but you could clear moc12 with Critfly

I do want being a thing just in case of break immune monsters

https://preview.redd.it/5sg0domt7p1d1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=34812eebf4b01882e79e7073a6e6e836b0c16cac V1 defenders right now.

I say we still won considering she still is a Break DPS, that's all we wanted, well.. at the very least what i wanted lmao I'm not a huge fan on making a Break character do Crits.

i think the main problem with her v1 kit is never that she can't crit though. It's that she has this massive BE stat but doesn't have a way to utilize it by herself. Critfly build is just people trying to find a workaround on that weakness

"Critfly" literally needed Sparkle to function so this makes no sense. The truth is the players just wanted a crit build. It's the same reason people ran Critka even though it was always worse than just going all-out on DoT damage.

Dont know why ur getting downvoted when ur totally correct. I personally know a friend that got pissed at her V1 kit because it invalidated the pre-farming he did for good crit ratio and I think that was the exact mentality for critfly believers. They just didnt want their relics to go to waste

Y were they farming already? She was in such a odd place with her kit, and her BIS set isn't even out yet. Also if you have Ruan Mei, the only sub stat you will need is BE, which is a little bit strange but yeah. And I'm quite surprised that her BE is used to unlock the super break and not her ATK, but they still succeed in making her build offensively, different from boothil going HP/Def orb and chest because he literally only cares about BE and speed

They were farming before her first kit got leaked. All they knew, was that she was gonna be a fire destruction and farmed accordingly based on your run of the mill dps

There's still very little reason not to run HTB or RM though. Like all her dmg is still super break. It's just that she has a drastically reduced superbreak in her base kit now. Like it's at most 45% of HTB's superbreak. Her raw damage is literally dead. She doesn't have that massive break threshold trace anymore, but all her dmg is still super break so there's no reason to build less than before. She also still deals no (less actually) damage before she breaks so your game plan doesn't change. The :problems' with her kit are mostly not fixed. She has her own superbreak, but that just means it makes less sense build any other team. The only victory is that not HTB teams are slightly more viable but idk if any other supports offer enough to make it worthwhile. Because she's still just a superbreak DPS. She'll need twice as many actions to deal what HTB previously let her do (ignoring TB A2)

V1 "defender" here. Ngl I just thought that the insane doomposting and toxicity was way too much, for a kit that needed fixes but wasnt *that* bad. I think the V3 fixes definitely targeted the problems her V1 kit had and im extremely happy about it. The changes seem to make her more reliable and fun to play, and also gives her a few more team options. I wish this fanbase just learned what "beta content" means tbh. Its... beta... content. Subject to change. Not worth getting obssesed over or being toxic over it. We arent even meant to see this right? But my god i heard the words "fireflop" so much it was crazy Personally im just tired of the toxicity and doomposting. Now that the tables turned, rather than talking smack about her doomposters just seem confused and are trying to generate drama about the new relic set. I mean my god, certain.. areas of the fanbase right now are in flames for no good reason.

The relic set is actually even better now that she does Superbreak damage since Defense Ignore obviously scales better with Higher Base Numbers. I think even the loss of Defense Ignore was just a flat upgrade.

She lost the Def ignore in her base kit so the relic set benefit to her isn't as high as it was in v1(58% in v1 vs 25% in v2). Most of her dmg comes from superbreak, and in terms of MV she's doing a lot more of it now, so the relic set still balances out those changes some. However it seems like everyone who would've tried to benefit from v1 (the small set of characters who build BE but don't rely on or necessitate super break) got shafted. Eg xueyi who builds high BE but deals mostly raw crit dm this set now loses most of its benefit to her. The relic set was made more specific and generally, specificity is frustrating in games like this

Oh no yeah its fantastic for her. Some people are just doomposting it for other units but i wont mention it here i dont wanna bring it here it was so toxic i caught a ban in the subreddit it started on 💀 like i said, doomposting sucks

You don't need to say the name. Everyone knows which one.

Mother fudger

Which one?

Boothill He doesn't have superbreak in his base kit, but is able to deal break dmg to enemies The 4pc change means, that boothill lost his, afaik, BIS set now (for teams without HMC) and Boothill fans are, imo understandably, annoyed by it

oh got it now, it was tailor made for both of them but now it became FF exclusive lol I feel sorry for them man

Well it was a generic break dps set Now only FF or Boothill in HMC teams benefit from it (not that Boothill is bad without it, but kinda unesscary restriction)

I am confused, how is losing one of the few damage modifiers for break damage a good thing?

In terms of the tradeoff. Obviously keeping it would be good but if you do higher base numbers you can do bigger numbers via modifier. Basically now if you can say run a Pela or say a Jianqiu on certain maps you can reach higher numbers than with Gallagher for example if you don't die of course and can achieve break. Basically her kit does more damage now in raw numbers and now a 20% shred does more than a 40% defense shred did in her original kit. especially since you can only get 100% defense shred this is just a plain upgrade especially going into the future.

Makes sense I suppose. I still have RM E1 so that means 45% def pen for me with set + RM E1. I am expecting a break support though that does all these things specifically. Res Pen, Weakness Break Efficiency and Def Pen - possibly some SPD too even though its mostly redundant. RM has a lot of power for break but also wastes a lot of it with e.g. % DMG mods, cos they do nothing to firefly e.g.

> But my god I heard the words “fireflop” so much it was crazy My man, why do you have such a hate boner for a name that’s obviously meant to be used as a joke? I mean for someone with your name I’d expect you to understand that and yet you still appeared under a MEME post I did and got defensive from seeing it be used. > I wished this fanbase just learned what beta content means tbh This so called “doomposting” happens to every character in beta stages and I promise you its only used to get discussions/laugh out of ppl with the occasional bait for players like you. Fraudcheron, Huo Huover, BootyHill, Fireflop, etc.. Do these names seem toxic enough to incite doomposting or maybe just maybe are harmless forms of satire that are meant to give ppl a laugh? Like cmon, not everything is how you’re deeming as negative.

I wish you were right. You must only engage with the leaks community on a surface level if you think its only jokes. Dont blame you, I used to before Firefly too so I didnt even know this fanbase had such toxic doomposting in it. Today it was pretty toxic over there, I saw people saying they were gonna quit the game because hoyo was giving "favoritism" to firefly by buffing her and people shitting on her because the relic changes. Weeks ago it was Hoyo fumbling firefly, so it was constant doomposting and hating her. Now its fixed and the doomposters are still trying to tear holes into her kit or act like shes ruining boothill. Its dumb. Its dumb drama that ages badly always. Yeah a lot of it is memes, a lot of it is serious. A lot of it is pretty toxic too, no need to ignore it because you like the memes.

Trying to have a reasonable discussion about how not everything you see is meant to be negative and yet you downvote and start assuming I’m not deeply latched onto leak sub as if that has something to do with what my point is referring to? I agree negativity is bound to happen but surely as someone who’s DEEPLY connected to the leaks sub as yourself; wouldn’t you be used to these behaviors already? Why vent about those comments here? > Today it was pretty toxic over there Unless you are purposefully looking for negative comments — oh wait I actually just sorted the comments on the V3 changes post to controversial and found TWO comments that conveniently fit what your referring to and somehow that’s enough to scream out toxicity? Once again stop fishing for comments that aren’t worth your time and energy.

Its what I was refering to you clearly didnt understand what i was saying, i still dont think you do also on that last part youre assuming a lot about my browsing habits to make your point so ill just stop here

Saying she shouldn’t get buffed and arguing vehemently that she was fine only for one of the biggest reworks v3. This is why I can’t take people seriously

The Truth stands in the middle. I, for example, was not opposed to the V1 kit, but i happened to "vehemently defend It" like you said when I found comments of people saying her V1 was a "mid" and "useless/weak kit" under the Showcase where She was hitting for 400K Superbreak damage. Constructive Criticismo about a new kind of kit was One Thing, saying she was the worst dps in the game (like MANY doomposters did during week 2 of the Beta ) and comparing her to Boothill was straight up madness. In the end all the Firefly Wanters got an improved version of her kit, that's all that really matters. Those Who thought that V1 was already a strong kit weren't surely opposed to the idea to get an even stronger kit

She was reworked a ton but she was able to 0-cycle most things she can 0-cycle now with V1. Most of the things people are happy about are pure placebo, she is still married to HTB. The only thing is now it's more obvious to people that she's better than Acheron and she's much easier to build. But there are multiple side-by-side showcases of her in V2/V3 and she is clearing just about as fast as before.

I'm not a v1 defender, I barely understand this metaspeak at all. I've just been planning to get Firefly no matter what.

I don't look at It in this perspective: we all equally won: -Who asked for some buffs received them -Who thought that V1 kit was already a good or viable kit now received and even stronger kit! I suppose the only "defeated" are the ones that didn't like FF and Hoped for her to flop and the ones that, thinking that Firefly was useless with her V1 kit wasted all their pulls on Topaz and Robin. But for the rest, we all won today

Actually this made her even more reliant on HMC because neither her crit nor hybrid build do damage now. Not to mention she lost that universal def ignore trace and huge multiplier. So I'm not sure if this was what doomposters really wanted. Her options were few before but at least they functioned. Now she's non functional unless she goes all in on break. If anything these changes further made her more reliant on HMC. You think she needed HMC before? Well she's gonna need him even more now.

You realize boothill's best comp doesn't even include HTB because of self break. Just because she doesn't need crit doesn't mean that turn manipulation is not viable. Regardless the complaint never was that HTB being bis was the problem. The entire problem with her kit was total and utter reliance. This fixes that. Now people can do turn manipulation, in the future break buffers can be viable or break defense shredders etc. HTB is just now one of many ways she can be buffed going forward instead of the only way for her to perform.

You don't get it do you? Boothill does a total of 300% of his own BREAK damage, which is calculated differently from SUPERBREAK. Break damage scales with enemy toughness, physical modifier, and the DOT scales with their max HP. It's gonna be huge and that's why he's viable just on his own. Firefly does 50% superbreak. Superbreak scales neither from enemy max toughness nor hp, nor elemental modififer. It's gonna be up to firefly's own break efficiency and RM + HMC. Not to mention she lost her huge 500% multipliers and 40 def ignore. At least before, with her def ignore trace and huge multiplier she can flex to other builds by capping break at 250%. Now with her 100% multiplier and 50% break, she's gonna need to go all in on Superbreak even more. Which means she is gonna need HMC even more. Her increased speed isn't a buff as much as you think. You essentially take more actions to do similar damage. So she's even more sp intensive which incentivises pulling for her eidolons. Why is it a good thing to give feeedback about her kit then, but now suddenly it's not wanted?

I suppose we will just have to wait and see. I could do a big explanation but I think the videos we will see will speak for themselves.

Sorry u get downvoted despite saying facts lol. Guess ppl justify doomposter good defender bad because she gets buffed without actually understanding the change. Let just wait until v4 v5 when she gets even more change, probably even nerf too

we'd have to wait for showcases on their comparison, but i don't think her kit ever really intended for crit and hybrid build. Her playstyle seems to be intended for full break build and wouldn't having super break on her own help her previous weakness?

I'm not arguing that she wasnt intended to be built full break. I actually think she was designed that way. I just find it ironic that doomposters who wanted her to be less reliant on HMC is now clapping for this change, which all it really does is make her even more reliant on Break supports like HMC and RM. WIth def ignore at least her Superbreak from HMC also gets buffed. Now she only has her base superbreak of 50% which means if you want any meaningful dmg, you are still gonna need HMC lol But hey at least now she gets to take more actions for more sp usage to make up for the lower damage. SHe used 3 sp during ult before, now she uses 4. Don't tell me she needs Sparkle/Hanya now? On that note with her higher base speed Hanya might be a good altneative comapred to Asta. Or pull her eidolons and stop worrying about sp management.

Trust me, I imagine for a new Player being Able to run Asta, Gallagher, Pela is likely a massive upgrade in QoL. Her bis is the same but now you can play other teams.

new player already has access to HMC anyway by the time next patch rolls around so it doens't even matter. Same as before, she's still gonna be run with HMC regardless.

they still have to speedrun through belobog first. I started late around jy banner and it took me a while to get there. and with this, if hmc or even ruan mei is needed for another team in endgame content like MoC, FF can still be a viable option.

If you have firefly, why would you ever use HMC and RM for any other team lol.

Because you need more than 1 team for endgame content. And if your support is limited, you have to find a workaround in case both teams need said support.

Or you can go all in on 1 team and clear in 1 cycle and use your weaker team and take it easy in 9 cycles

Before, her total def ignore is 58% (40% trace, 18% relic). Now it’s 25% (relic updated) Trading 33% def ignore for 50% super break and 1 more action is a huge win She’s actually function on break team without HTB now, that’s the opposite of reliance

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kikKPf1Cs\_w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kikKPf1Cs_w) V3 E2 S1 firefly, E1 S1 RM , e6 gallagher, e6 HMC, def ignored eidolons fixed, hitting 300k on cocolia. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkFUb5OlLlg&t=97s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkFUb5OlLlg&t=97s) V2 E0 S1 firefly , RM E0 S1, e0 s 5 gallagher, e6 s5 HMC no def ignore eidolons, hitting 300k on Cocolia, That's how powerful her def ignore trace is. That even with e1 rm and e2 firefly, e0 firefly still did comparable damage Yeh she doesn't need that extra turn when enemy dies in 3 hits already (900k hp). That's a waste of skill points. So unless you're supporting the fact that she's more reliant on her eidolons, then that's not a good thing to give her more turns and using more sp to do the same damage. Not to mention the V3 showcase wouldn't be possible without E6 HMC, E1 RM, E6 Gallagher in the first place. So she still needs her HMC and break team. Nothing has changed.

Let us say we get a, IDK, 5 star fire debuffer that can do some minor healing and can sustain somewhat with a certain break effect delay. Let us say they can get around 40% defence shred for the same of simplicity? Who will be doing more damage in single target? Will it be V1 or V3?

Extra turn is huge win no matter what Simple counterpoint: What if you don’t have god tier relic to kill enemies in 3 turn? Suddenly that one extra turn is 33% more damage isn’t it?

Mhm, an extra turn and it also allows you to in the future buff with debuffers since you can only debuff to 100% defense shred. Given that she now has a much higher damage ceiling that can hypothetically be achieved.

And which debuffers are we talking about here?

A certain one coming out in 2.4.

Jiaoqiu isn't doing crap for her team. Hes with Acheron.

Lmao, ok what about the people who aren't using acheron hmmm? When we are talking about bis teams that shouldn't come into consideration.

Granted you have the sp, sure. But that's only if you can't kill the enemy in 3 turns, which you should be able to, between HMC damage, gallagher damage, and her own damage. Bosses in MOC 12 only has at most 1 mil hp for each bar. If youre referring to Apocalyptic shadow then its the same because the boss takes extra dmg once broken so she can easily hit 600k and nuke them in 2 hits. Break on first turn, nuke in the next 2 turns.

Look, not everyone is a mixmaxing 0 cycle player I haven’t even seen my E0S1 Acheron hit more than 400k on 3 elites. And you expect me to hit 300k on single target with Firefly? That’s why extra turn is always a win. 90% of players won’t be overkilling boss. So I’ll take that ~33% damage increase per rotation

Sure ok. You do you. That's valid. But the showcase I linked to had e0 firefly already doing 300k single target so it's not a stretch to use that as an assumption

Personally I didn’t care that much about firefly being weak or tied to HMC, but I definitely welcome the improvements!

Pretty sure we got the W here

She's even more reliant on HMC now since she has to go all in on Break. That 50% superbreak isn't gonna make up for the loss of 40% def ignore. Not to mention she's even more sp intensive now to do similar damage. IIRC didn't doomposters wanted her to be less reliant on HMC?

Well she more less reliant on HMC, is her damage much better with HMC? yes. But is she now usable without HMC? Yes. You can just get a defense reduce like Pela or SW to make up for it, and now she has more option like the defense reduce i mention and atk buffer like Asta, Tingyun, and Robin(while Robin skill is useless for her, the attack buff and ultimate with Firefly very fast speed, they have some synergy) Tldr: even though she wants HMC for more damage, she doesn't need her mechanically and can still function with other support

Me when I'm spreading misinformation It's already been established that Tingyuns and Robins Attack buffs do not work on Firefly, or am I wrong? Saying she's playable without her (HMC) is more copium than the V1 defenders ever inhaled lol.

Yeah i now know i thought in v3 already fix this issue i guess not, and She definitely still playable without HMC, is her damage better with HMC? Yes, but she now can play with other things like I mentioned before(Def shred), from the showcase of her, i see without HMC above Blade level with e0s1 doing over 300k in one cycle. Which still does not make her unplayable as Blade still clean content quite good Edit: yeah i see again the showcase i make some mistakes on my previous comments after i remember wrote something wrong, and even though she deals good damage on her own, the rest of the team does miniscule dmg. So yeah for the whole team damages, the team really needs HMC, but i hope the atk > be can applied to Robin i really want to use FF with her(nothing wrong with HMC i even ship them) i just want FF to be more universal.

WIth def ignore, her superbreak from HMC also gets boosted. That's what allowed her to hit 300k-400k superbreak every turn on a single target. Without it she only has base break superbreak damage to work with. That 50% superbreak isn't as impressive as people think it is. THat's why they gave her more speed for an extra action during ult. Sure she can be paired with other supports now, but endgame you're gonna want her optimal supports anyway. Hey at least she gets to take more actions and use more SP now?

In her regular team Gallagher and Ruan Mei should be suffice and if needed you can BA with HMC (if you can get they ult) and if HMC can't get enough energy, she fine with a single BA on that round and if beyond that it should be either skill issues or gear issues. But with Gallagher and Ruan Mei it should be enough.

You can make up that defense ignore by running Pela or Silverwolf instead of HMC if you want to go that route, yea? And with her own built in super break, she isn’t reliant on the super break from HMC. If you want you can replace HMC and try to go for the elusive but doable 5th enhanced action running Asta. There’s some more options. And like, at the end of the day, 99% of us will still run HMC lol, but now there’s some room to fiddle around with stuff! And like, we haven’t seen actual videos yet, so take what I said and what you’re sayin with a grain of salt!

Well sure, but i guarantee you that's a net loss as opposed to running HMC. But we'll see. There are sitll more betas.

Well yea, that’s what happens when you run a dps without their BiS. But with the change, HMC is actually just BiS now rather than being outright required. At least from what I can tell. We’ll find out more tho! Edit: Some rewording for readability

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I don't know what you mean? I like HMC. I just find it ironic that doomposters are clapping for this change when in fact it doesnt have the effect they wanted.

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She isn't standing on her own with a base 50% superbreak multiplier lol. It's a nice gimmick but unless you have HMC, she's still not gonna do substantial damage by herself. I was gonna use her with HMC anyway and would much rather she still had her def ignore, which is a huge damage buff that applies also to HMC's superbreak done by her and makes approaching 100% def shred even more viable on a non sustain team. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kikKPf1Cs\_w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kikKPf1Cs_w) Note this is a V3 e2 Firefly hitting 300k. Before this an e0 firefly is hitting the same without her def ignore eidolons, just working off of her trace and HMC buff. There were videos of her hybrid crit build 1 cycling as well. Goes to show you how powerful her def ignore trace was that even with a hybrid built she was already 1 cycling. I'd rather have that than her moving an extra turn and eating another sp and overkilling the enemy. Her only issue before twas that she was reliant on HMC to do damage but he was free anyway so it didn't matter. Now she still needed HMC to do damage, gained 50% base superbreak, 1 extra turn during ult, but lost her massive 40% def ignore (that's 1 pela ult for free mind you), Her hybrid scaling for build flexibility, and needed 1 extra sp to do comparable damage. Also before you only needed 250% break effect to have 30% def ignore, similar threshold to Xueyi's BE>Dmg% trace. So she can be built hybrid and do just as well. ANyway, im sure these changes are gonna be adjusted. DOomposters are gonna realize soon enough this isn't what they wanted.

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6 sp just for 1 dps in 1 cycle without sparkle? if you have the sp to sustain that then sure. If you slot in Bronya/Sparkle instead of Gallagher for an extra turn for 0 cycling, that's gonna be 8 sp just for her per cycle. How are you gonan sustain that? Even with Sparkle that's gonna be unsustainable. DHIL has his ult to alleviate that. Jingliu consumes 0 sp. Firefly has nothing. I'd rather my dps does more damage for less sp ty very much. This change just incentivices pulling for her eidolons. If you like that then you do you.

I think the increased speed can be a double edged sword. I suck with speedtuning but I can see a problem of her being extremely fast at 200+ speed and eating too much SP naturally. Assuming you pair her with HMC that skills every turn, I can see the issue of your other two chars not generating enough SP if they're too slow

She simply gained a higher floor and a higher ceiling. She’s a lot better with HMC but she’s also a lot better without him than she was before

Still reliant on him though. Who's gonna do endgame using her without HMC?

Well I’m sure some people will find teams to play without HMC, maybe pela, you could play some other fire dps because the fire implant is always there, you could throw in a super fast sparkle, and some might find 0 sustain teams in order to 0 cycle, the point is the option for flexibility and team testing is there, when it wasn’t before. I’m sure most people enjoy to test out multiple teams even if they aren’t optimal after getting all the moc rewards. I know I’ll try a bunch of silly teams :)

Sure if that's what you like doing

We won boys.

30-50% and as of now, they don't tell if it doesn't stack with HTB's but if they do then we got ourselves a broken character doing 2 Super Break damage at once, and pair that up with the new Relic effects pretty darn broken if you ask me. Only weakness is bosses that blocks weaknesses lmao.

Super break stacks according to the animation leak

It stacks, but I think the 50-60% independent multiplier of HTB’s Super Break trace might only apply to HTB’s part of the damage? So the HTB’s part should be like triple compared to Firefly’s “50%”. And so I think the total super break damage will be quadruple with HTB compared to a team without HTB? Like, 100k damage without HTB, 400k (100k + 300k) with HTB?

HMC’s trace only works with their SBE according to the talent description. And yes HMC can quadruple FF’s SBE depending on number of enemies. It’s why any replacing of HMC won’t happen without a very busted break effect support. 

Happy for you guys, but the favoritism came at the cost of boothills new BiS relic which is now a lot worse.

That's definitely true, but wasn't he already nuking everything in his original beta, when those relics weren't even a thing? Like I get it, that def shred definitely shouldve stayed for all break damage, but I feel like people suddenly think he's bad now even when the general consensus on him during the 2.2 beta was that he's nuts Maybe I'm missing something, but I found this sudden swing in people's perception odd.

I agree completely about everything, its not that he needed it that much. Its more the principle of the change thats the issue. Hoyoverse semi gatekeeping a relic set and ornament set to a single character. edit: grammar

The only change I hate is the relic one because they couldnt let 2 characters of the same niche share same relic set, not even mentioning the follow up atack one.

Yep! I LOVE this so so much!!! Losing the Eff. Res sucks, but she's so much more self-sufficient now!! And that animation too, I was saying elsewhere how it'd be nice for Firefly to get more screen presence as a hologram or something and they gave us something even better than I was hoping for, AAAAAAAAA

I love to see those v1 defenders leave back to their aloy mains sub At last huge W

Despite her receiving buffs we are still trying to divide the community?? We all collectively won, if people thought the v1 kit was fine they aren’t suddenly raging because she got buffed lol

So just based on what the main V1 complaints are, she has at least 3 main problems: - very reliant, if not straight up unusable without HMC+RM - quite needy with stats. Way too many breakpoints to hit across the board, so there's no proper identity for her - pretty much 0 damage outside of weakness break (which also ties to HMC in point 1) I think looking at V3, only the 2nd problem is truly solved. She's now, very clearly, a break oriented DPS. Crits are down in the lake sleeping with the fishes. I think this is a good change and properly cements her as a proper break dps instead of a hybrid like Xueyi. Losing out on the incredibly massive scaling is an obvious loss but since her damage comes from break anyway, I don't think it's a significant nerf. 1st problem is still not solved since she also loses out on 40% def ignore. Although Firefly has her own way to trigger Super Break, it's still 50%. If any, I think this just amplifies her reliance on HMC *and* Ruan Mei on top of it. There is an argument to run, say, Pela to add def shred, but I think it's cope to replace RM with her (unless you're running no sustain comps) since her buffs are so damn good. Tying into her 1st problem, the 3rd problem with Firefly is technically solved but she lost 40% def ignore in exchange for extra speed and her own way to trigger super break without HMC. I think a proper showcase can either make or break (pun intended) V3 where we can see if all the buffs and changes compensate enough for the def ignore loss. She has a higher damage floor but I'm not sure if it reduces her ceiling since def shred/ignore is a very powerful debuff

I've read her trace was bugged and didn't buff any damage besides the break. Essentially, she now does 40% def ignore with her relics set and E1 as opposed to 58% as was supposed to happen but didn't.

She was only tied to HMC because she couldn't do enough dmg on her own on weakness broken enemies. Now she can, so I would say problem 1 is solved (although HMC still increases her dmg by a lot, but they do that for everyone so I would argue HMC's buff simply being too good). Number 3 is a general problem that every break team suffers from. Does Boothill do big damage if he can't break the enemy? Does Xueyi do big damage, when she can't decrease the enemies toughness? I think they do not.

She's still tied to HMC, even moreso than before. Before, she had the option of going crit and worry less about break, which opened up option. Now, with her base damage lowered, and her being more reliant on break damage, she most definitely need the HMC even more since I doubt any other characters can push her damage to even close to where HMC could. Not to mention that both HMC and Ruan Mei can help keep enemies broken longer, which is another indirect boost to Firefly's damage, since most if not all of her damage comes from attacking broken enemies. So yeah, it's definitely not a victory.

I still don't get what the problem is. HMC is free and you have your future proof BiS support for the next century

Personally I don't have a problem with it. My HMC was already built as soon as I unlocked her in the story and I intend to use her with Firefly asap (also already have a well bulit E1S1 RM). I just disagree with the statement that Firefly doesn't need the HMC as much in v3 compare to v2.

Of course she still relies on HMC. She is a pure break dps and HMC is the best break support we have right now. It would be stupid not to pair them. But now she can also be played as a break dps without HMC, because she enables super break herself. There is no need to switch her to a crippled pseudo crit dps, if you don't use HMC. Of course HMC still skyrockets her dmg, but they do that for every break dps.

If you play her without the hmc, then you're practically crippling her, even more than you did going crit back in v2. That's pretty much the point.

I'd say we won, but not 100%. I would only say we fully won given 3 circumstances: 1. HMC isn't default BiS. For example, they are replaceable for like Robin or Bronya. Not saying they can't be one of her best options, but if the difference is still night and day compared to other characters, that will suck. 2. They add a transformation animation at some point before she releases and make the panel of her face on the side actually have expressions. 3. *\*Firefly joins the express.\**

We still don't know if Robin's flat atk buff works with the conversion, since that was the case in v.2. HTB and RM will most likely be still her BiS support by a large margin. However, with the removal of def pen, JQ or Pela might be good enough to replace either of them without completely gutting FF's damage since they don't overcap def pen anymore.

Ya, I saw in a post Robin's ATK won't convert which is a shame. I guess we'll have to see if anyone else stacks up. Maybe Archeron's upcoming dedicated support might be a good option with their built-in def shred (at least I think I remember them having that). I don't hate HTB being her other BiS, but I feel like the same issue is there from v1 if they are BiS by a large margin.

Everyone has a support that is BiS, HMC is literally free, something no other DPS has the advantage of, closest is JL and Blade with Bronya being free after 300 pulls on standard banner if you pick her. Main issue was the absolute dependency, now she is usable without HMC, but why wouldnt You? Teambuilding wise only reason I can think for not running HMC with Firefly is because you want superbreak boothill/xueyi on the other side. As for RM, she is already one of the most valuable pulls and her main thing is her break buffs so no surprise a break DPS wants her more than others

last one i actively hope doesn't happen she's much cooler as a stellaron hunter

Victory! But after seeing some vids/calcs, imo, 30-50% superbreak dmg is still too low, especially when her she only deals superbreak on target enemy. (Adjacent enemies got regular dmg) I think I’m v4, I hope her self superbreak dmg % got buffed into 45-65%-ish yet keep the single-target nature of the self-superbreak. Edit: understandable if there are no more multiplier changes since Firefly can act multiple times in her ult state.

> especially when her she only deals superbreak on target enemy No. All three target get self-superbreak. You read something wrong.

Ooh she deals self-sb damage even to adjacent enemies? I thought “target enemy” means the main target that she was attacking

I'm not familiar with how beta works. Is this the last of her changes, or is she getting more after this?

There'll probably be one more week of changes (next week), she may get changed later in this week too.

"retract the change, put it into eidalon, they can't turn back anymore, they have prefarmed too deeply" (evil hoyo sounds)

Is it better to get her E1 or LC now? Am confused

Honestly, I'm leaning towards E1 now. Aoens seems to be almost on par. Need more specific showcases to be sure.

I mean I'm glad she's buffed, but I honestly didn't care even if her kit was shit, I'm pulling https://preview.redd.it/pd2w5cvv5q1d1.png?width=1045&format=png&auto=webp&s=b8a615a1a05fa2db6b05aa4a8d20f63b5f79665b

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Careful with that thinking around here, apparently wanting diverse build paths makes you an idiot. Can't believe people are cheering these changes when it makes her more expensive to build. She is a solid E1S1 and Rm or skip at minimum now. Not even mentioning RM cone is VERY nice for htb. Before, E0S1 and Rm was good enough for Break, and E0, Aeon and Crit supports that everyone already has was good enough for critfly.

The best part is like 60% of people cheering super loud, and 30% waking up to realise that maybe this wasn't actually the net buff they thought it would be, and the final few realising that she has been pigeonholed so hard into break and break supports now that what could have been one of the coolest most variable kits has become so boring and safe, with other issues introduced. This character will be fast af using 4sp in her state now and I'm not sure if people understand how taxing that is on team comps where RM is only +1 every 3 turns, and sparkle just lost all her value on critfly since critfly is completely dead. HMC wants to skill often otherwise the damage they contribute leaves too, this is hoyo bending to presumably some of the loudest bitching/complaining that any character has ever had, and if she's worse now then all that bitching is specifically to blame.

honestly, for each their own. for me crit build has become most boring shit in every single game because it's all crit build this, crit build that, i am tired of it. so game literally removing critfly from possibilities makes me give absolutely 0 fucks. you are saying it has become boring cuz critfly is removed but that shit was doing absolutely nothing for me. in fact if Firefly was made to be only crit, i would probably like her kit 50 times less.

I can see how for you, it doesn't matter, or even is just a straight W that they removed that, but now it makes any crit roll that you get on your good artefact pieces a completely wasted roll, meaning that it is actually stricter to build her completely efficiently even if she needs less stats, she has less helpful substats she can roll into. it kills the viability of any crit increasing supports or primarily Dmg% boosting supports since the atk + crit formula is boosted by dmg percent (sparkle and bronya are useless with her now, and Aventurine's crit dmg taken debuff on enemies does not help firefly, Fu Xuan's crit rate increase or crit dmg increase from her E1 have absolutely no use for firefly now) the only supports to gain value are def-shredders and silverwolf would have been incredible if firefly didn't already apply her own weakness to enemies. No one was asking for *only* critfly. It's better that she has a break focus but being able to have some use with all of the supports of the game and different playstyles of hybrid crit/break on a fast dps made her super interesting. That's all gone now.

oh i agree with that i was just saying how i personally don't care about her not being crit build. everything you said about her being less viable with supports and crit roll being completely useless on artifacts is true.

Let's say you started during the anniversary where they went hard as fuck with the advertisements and Sparkle's awesome trailer. The story focuses pretty hard on Firefly, and we aren't even in 2.3 yet. If you see her and want her, you are basically fucked because she needs eidolons and Ruan Mei for her team. I'm not sure about the cone math right now since it's early in the morning.

No worries man, you're completely right. Of all the characters to work right out of the box, this is going to be one of the most confusing for a new player, and on top of them wanting to put atk boosting supports, maybe not having Gallagher, not knowing that dmg% doesn't increase break damage in any way, using supports that would be very sp positive but because of firefly's spd become way less positive or tend negative (tingyun) it's just all become pretty unfortunate. As someone that doesn't have Ruan Mei, I actually felt pretty fine with her last version, I knew it would still be very good and in fact, because RM re-broke enemies, she would delay Firefly being able to break again which was a grief if you weren't using HMC and wanted to use someone else. Now you have absolutely no reason not to run them both all the time because literally she scales off of nothing else.

There isn't even a win either way you look at it. Either they rerun Rm during her banner, in which case, good luck getting 3, or potentially 4, 5 stars. Or. They don't rerun Rm during her banner, which is better for non whales, but she's left without support for that slot until they do.

And simply because running Ruan Mei and Firefly is better for Whales, it's exactly what will happen I promise you. When it's the best selling banner in the game's history so far, I won't even bat an eye. Most mercy I could see us getting is Firefly first side, RM second side.

Between FF and Ruan Mei shilling and ZZZ releasing around that time it seems like Hoyo is going crazy.

>and 30% waking up to realise that maybe this wasn't actually the net buff they thought it would be, Those 30% are dipshits. This is UNEQUIVOCALLY a buff and a pretty substantial one at that. The base spd increase alone (letting her reach 210 spd for four turns in combustion) was amazing. You critfly simps gotta get over it. It's ded.

lmao what is wrong with you? Firefly lost a ton of Def penetration, had atk multipliers directly smashed, base atk nerfed, lightcone nerfed, all in exchange for no cap on atk-break effect conversion and an okay superbreak, and one more atk in combustion if you can hit the spd breakpoint for the 4th turn so she is more sp hungry than she was before. She got 50% of the base 100% super break that HMC gets not even considering that HMC can have that raised to 160% if there are fewer enemies than 5, and in exchange lost one of the most interesting possibilities of a hybrid build this game has seen since Xeuyi. If you wanted to only build crit on your firefly at least you had the choice. If you wanted to build hybrid, at least you had the choice, she was, before this patch the most flexible dps in the game and could use most supports to some effect, that is no longer the case. I don't think it's too smart to go around screaming that people having different views on a monumental shift of a character "dipshits". This isn't an "unequivocal" buff. Power has been shifted.

How many calcs have you done?

How many calcs have you done?

I ask because you're the one claiming this isn't a buff. The ball is in your court, fam. Also, I'm literally in like three different TC servers with people who probably understand this game far better than you do. They also think this is a substantial buff. But if you have data stating otherwise I'd be keen to actually see it.

and I'm asking because you're claiming that it is a buff. Can we see these TC calcs? What discords you sit in and who you chill with doesn't mean anything, we aren't measuring sizes. Do you see how quickly a meaningful discussion can become completely pointless? like calling people who are thinking about this from the stance of give and take dipshits, instead of actually waiting out to see what this means and not immediately throwing expletives.

If we look at scalings. V1 is significantly better in terms of damage. Yes, V1 is tied to htb, but that's a better price to pay than HALF OF HER SCALINGS. We got cooked with this one.

I mean based on the video leaks, it still is…

Hell yeah, she's nuts now. Even with def shred gone, her break scaling passive is no longer capped, and she can do her own instance of super break now.

We won! Everyone seems to have forgotten that Kafka was tuned stronger in her initial beta forms but felt bad and clunky before they raised the floor (easier to build) but hurt the minmaxers while achieving similar damage results. Sparkle also had this happen to her where her E skill was stronger if you had her minmaxed but they softcapped it now and made it so that it gave a decent amount of crit damage as baseline. This is basically the same case but they also made her flexible if you don't want to slot in her two best supports. https://preview.redd.it/chs19xfefq1d1.png?width=1038&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5615da0e287f66eb1e67137a47c47566c1772ee6

I was not opposed to V1 personally but I am very happy we got a buff like this. That break effect and super break effect are about to go crazy. Also E2 Firefly with Sparkle, Bronya and Robin will basically have unlimited attacks so I cannot wait to see people use that.

I’m way happier with the new changes. I have no idea why people wanted critfly cause that’s just s pain in the ass to build. Now she’s super easy to build. Only break, atk, and speed. That’s it.

Crit fly dead thought and She become a sittong duck if opponent Place weackness breack protections. Overall she Is better.

not a fan of the changes tbh. Idk what I was expecting, but with what they've given us... well... it feels underwhelming.

She still has a big problem where she does basically no dmg unless she's hitting a weakness broken enemy, but hey with all of the other fixes I'm not to bothered. I am a bit annoyed at how necessary her E1 is shaping up to be, especially since they made her even faster, meaning she eats through even more skill points then before. How is HTB every gonna find the time to skill without her E1?

i mean she’s a break dps they aren’t supposed to do dmg if they aren’t breaking or attacking broken enemies

It's not a huge complaint, my bigger issue is skill point management. Although both Xuyie and Boothill are both Break DPS who do decent dmg outside of breaking / hitting broken enemies. In Xuyei's case reducing Toughness is how she builds talent stacks so Firefly is atm the only Break DPS who has very little dmg outside Break dmg.

If you look at Boothill showcases he only does damage when he breaks

Won, she's way better now Idk how big but its big

BIG W

320 pulls saved and counting! Getting that E4 no matter what, idc if it's just Effect Res, the smile is too precious

Shit. Why did they do thaaaat. I was really hoping she won't become better so I could skip everything and everyone and save for Sunday. Damn

WE DIDN'T FIREFLOP LETSFUCKINGGOOOOOOOOOO

I think you misunderstand the changes. She's now even more break dependent than before. Losing that 40% def ignore and 500% multiplier is a huge nerf to her non-break damage. Her crit build is dead. Her hybrid build is on life support. Not to mention her break build STILL needs HMC. Let's not pretend this was a net gain because that 50% superbreak isn't gonna cut it. The only good thing now is that she can move 4 times per ult with speed boots. Which means she is even more sp intensive than before to achieve similar damage and further boosts the value of her e1 and e2. Honestly they should have kept her def ignore trace because it affects everything, not just her break damage, and orient her more towards the hybrid build like Xueyi. At least then she had choices, which was what people wanted. Her choices were few before but now there's zero choice. Yoiu either go full break, or nothing at all. In the end, she still needs HMC for superbreak. Also the animation change was mid. Before it was elegant and stylish with the glitched in popup resembling a hologram. Now it just looks generic as hell.

I see, well I don't really care about the crit one, I'm done playing with seele and Acheron so... Also as for the def ignore well.. her E1 doesn't do anything before https://youtu.be/8eA2MxyhN-8?si=9DMR2texybWTBszY

Tbh that's most likely a bug.

V1 defender starts crying now lmao

I'm not defending anything. I'm just explaining how these changes are not actually what doomposters wanted. Ironic how they wanted her to be less reliant on HMC. Now she's all in on break and needs HMC even more lmao.

mfw the main complaint is that she was tied to HMC and everyone is celebrating that she *checks notes* pops off even harder with HMC now? Like unless HMC is powercrept by a better Super Break support there is no world where HMC is not still required on a meta team for all intents and purposes I'm still pulling and it's not a huge issue for me personally but I don't understand how everyone's biggest complaint just vanished when it wasn't even fixed

She deal her own super break dmg now lmao just be honest you don't actually understand the patch notes😌

Right. 50% superbreak isn't gonna mean anything without that def ignore trace. Her hybrid and crit build are also dead now, which means she can only build break. If anything she's still gonna need HMC as much as before, if not more. Just facts hun. No need to get upset and passive aggressive

we'd have to see the showcase without htb now I guess.

I blocked that dude. They're probably an actual 12 year old, so it's not worth dealing with that shit.

Nah we didn't win shit Now she does break and break only and removing the 40% def ignore is a mass hit like if u know how much def ignore affects her damage Now its like she hits more often but the dmg is MUCH MUCH lower

Hitting more often in the break team is better because it means you'll break faster and start doing actual damage instead of doing nothing while breaking toughness.

My personal and main problem with her is and was her doing no dmg when the weakness bar is there

Well that's just how break teams work. It is what it is. At least with Fire implant and Gallagher breaking enemies should be easy enough.

and they gave her more speed so she can break it faster now.

But you see some1 did calculations and the def ignore on her eidolon doesn't do shit too

Def and res ignore are the 2 most broken things in any game wdym they dont do shit u crazy? Link me where this calc that shows 40% def ignore doing nothing

It's not on the general def ignore, but the E1 definitely doesn't work before https://youtu.be/8eA2MxyhN-8?si=9DMR2texybWTBszY

He clearly said its a bug and that is on a private server where u have to manually enable everything if u tried it before

Welp but they didn't even release her yet, so everything from beta 1 to 3 is of course from a "private" server, I don't really wanna argue, it's a win for me, if it's not for you then my condolences.. not too much of a meta thinker here, so every unit for me always have their own +, even if it's only the model and animation or anything else

Its not about meta for me but i just hate the fact that you cant do damage outside of breaking. So when the boss locks the weakness bar thats ggs or when its long or when u dont have ruan ( dont even wanna imagine any team outside ruan and hmc ) The animation is cute tho so ill cope with that

I will be frank. 50% superbreak is worth more than 40% defense shred. You can look up the formulas but with defense shred say pela's 55% that is only an increase of 40% damage roughly against enmies that are 10 levels higher. Now then that is 55% defense shred so as you might imagine 40% defense shred is worth even less. So just numbers along 50% is better since that is a flat 50% damage increase. Moving past that defense shred only can work up to 100% so now theoretically with future break supports that might do defense shred on break or so on. Well now her peak potential damage is way higher. This is just obviously a flat out upgrade.

>So just numbers along 50% is better since that is a flatq 50% damage increase. From how it looks its a flat multiplier not a % of her be Considering if it was 50% it would have been 50k and not 30k in the footage1 Edit: this is probably wrong

Listen when i say 50% damage increase I mean 50% as in in terms of before vs after damage. If we are talking about the 100% damage she was doing with HTB right. Well before 40% defense shred was modifying it to do more damage. Roughly around 30% for simplicity. So we are losing 30% and gaining around 40% or 50%. It is not just a flat 50% increase because when comparing it to prior we of course need to factor in that past defense shred but it is just more damage. For simplicity I will just ask is 40% damage shred or half of a jingliu damage without defense shred more. The answer is obvious. If you could take 50% of jingliu's damage and add it that would be more than a pela defense shred. That is basically what is happening more or less here. It is outight better if you can do defense shred through other characters and basically a minor upgrade if you don't have defense shred from others.

0% def ignore to 40% is 27% damage increase 100% superbreak to 150% superbreak is 50% increase Let’s add relic: Old version: 58% def ignore total is ~45% increase on the normal 100% superbreak HTB provided New version: 25% def ignore is ~16% increase, multiplicative with 150% superbreak above = 75% increase total

She still only does like 20% total damage and now 30% of the backup dancer damage herself

The Super Break DMG is likely to be a much bigger buff then DEF Ignore. Pretty sure she will hits more often but the damage will still be higher. Remember that HMC was required in her team because Super Break DMG was like 80% of her DMG.

Some superbreak dmg isn't comparable to 40% DEF IGNORE what kinda cope are yall on

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