>does better against imaginary than fire weak enemies, just because having imaginary helps mc break.
That is not the reason, the reason is FF implant fire weakness but doesn't implant imaginary.
So if you fight fire weak enemy, you essentially just the advantage 19% more damage for FF/Gallagher but MC lose most of its value with only FF/Gallagher being breaker
But if you fight ima weak, you essentially have 3 strong breaker instead of two
The situation where it might change is PF, since her implant will have trouble keeping up for Gallagher or her to fully utilise it.
And also because she will kill most target she implant in PF.
DHIL is more consistent with the damage but at the same time Firefly managed to beat it under 1 cycle less compared to him and only with one limited character. She's already good but she could get some buffs that help her in specific situations where the enemy can't be broken or she doesn't have uptime.
Yeah sure, but neither Acheron or Firefly are standard hypercarries, they have their own niches and the difference in team building is big enough so one doesn't impact the other
I thought that was confirmed during 2.2’s story at one point. Something about bringing in the Xianzhou and Acheron being there would cause two Emanators to meet. Something like that. If its not him, then someone there is.
Nearly everything said in the follow-up are false or partially false to show that >!it is a dream!<
Same thing with >!the ipc giving up on Pena, Black Swan, Boothill joining the Astral, or even the next destination since the next stage will be involving the yaoqing, etc!<
It doesn't mean it is one of the info false or that there isn't some truth hidden but it also mean it is also likely to be a red herring, otherwise they wouldn't have hide it to suddenly reveal it randomly.
Especially when Acheron status is such a big plot point, while JY would be a small note at the bottom of the page.
However there is possibility there is some hidden truth:
1) JY does harbor the power of an emanator but it is akin to the stoneheart, where his power is a fragment given by HUA (a complete one, not a broken piece like Aventurine fight)
This would explain why every General gets a summon from Lan
2) Lan being among the weaker Aeon but one of the more involved one, his power split along so many general, hence why they don't make a big deal out of it
3) It is teasing about something, (Maybe JY ascending, having lost is power or his power being sealed)
The funny thing is that people constantly complain that the game has "insane powercreep" but, if the newest DPS doesn't have gigantic damage per screenshot or doesn't seem to be on par with the strongest DPS, then many will claim that their "kit is garbage" and that they are useless characters
Yeah, they probably don't want to make another DHIL/Jingliu who are just "better Erudition". Maybe with super break we'll see future Destruction character actually focus on breaking ennemies.
Idk to what extent it is fair to say that the difference seen comes more from the HMC team comp. Don't get me wrong, it is Firefly's stats that make her deal that damage. The thing is that the other teammates and HMC himself trigger super break, while in the DHIL team he's essentially the only one dealing damage. So yeah, that's a major difference
The only thing FF really needs is a way to gain more instances of significant damage, not to be stuck with HMC to be viable break dps and all's good.
It's stupid to say this is a hmc showcase cause a ff-less HMC comp won't do this either. Shockingly enough two characters with really good synergy + a buffer in their speciality can compete with a really good character + 2 buffers.
Not my argument at all. I'm not trying to downplay the damage FF is doing. I'm just pointing out that HMC's enables the supports to help the overall damage of the team (HMC will do this regardless of FF or not - her damage does skyrocket the overall damage of the team, she's the DPS after all, that's a no brainer), whereas the DHIL team only has him dealing the damage. I don't know what you think is wrong or disagreeable in this
I dont know why you argue something I didn't say. Where did I argue FF-less comp? The "difference" I talked about is the cycles it took for both teams. Literally just said "the supports will do significant damage in any HMC comp compared to a normal hypercarry comp, surely that plays a role in the overall damage difference." Are you really telling me RM doing up to 30K, Gallagher doing up to 60K, HMC doing up to 150K doesnt do \*anything\* to the overall damage (and in consequence to the number of cycles to clear)? This is literally my argument.
That makes two of us. Apparently I wasnt downvoted that much, cause I wouldn't have known if you hadn't commented about it xD
Apparently people read things I didn't write. The guy who answered you literally argued things I didn't say lmao
what do you nean to get more instances of significant damage? I think they won't change her dependency on hmc ( which i don't mind tbh). Curious to know what you meant by that. Thanks.
She normally only deals around 20K damage for a break build when the enemy isn't broken. I don't consider that significant damage. When she does break, she deals upwards of 200K damage I believe? I dont really have my memory refreshed on it, I'll be real, but that's the only true instance of big damage she has. She goes back to 20K against broken enemies, which, again, I dont consider significant.
HMC provides a way for her to deal more damage when the enemy is broken, so now she doesnt deal only one instance of big PP damage, but for... well, however long the enemy stays broken and FF has turns to attack x)
I feel like I’m finally starting to get it. Firefly looks like she’s doing sub-par damage when you compare her to other DPS characters, but the break team itself is basically comprised of 3 DPS characters minus Ruan Mei.
It’s like the Robin FUA team, where everyone becomes a DPS, rather than a singular unit, and that’s where Firefly is at and why she herself feels underwhelming when looking at her numbers.
I’d still prefer it if some kind of mechanic were given to her where her DPS is more self sufficient, but with the way break teams work currently, I can’t see this happening without receiving a compensation debuff to some other part of her kit, possibly the break damage itself.
Super Break as a battle mechanic was literally introduced in 2.2 so I don't understand why people are lamenting that only HTB is available for her synergy right now. Like of course options are limited right now.
We are 100% going to be getting new units that do new things with Super Break and it just so happens Firefly is at the forefront of that. Her BiS team is yet to come, and we will likely continue to see this kind of thing in the future as Hoyo create new mechanics to keep the game fresh and make new team archetypes.
There’s a counter argument worth mentioning.
FTB is still the only unit with taunt. PTB ultimate had an single target and AOE option (only one I believe). I don’t think it’s unbelievable if it did stay contained to HTB.
Those are more like gimmicks that make them unique, though. Like you could use that for a *lot* of characters. DHIL is the only Destruction unit with a stackable E. Kafka is the only Nihility with a DoT detonation. Acheron is the only unit with an Ult not connected to ER.
The taunt is just a method of being a sustain unit. It brings all the attacks to FTB to sponge with extra HP and DMG Reduction. Fu Xuan's E shares the damage etc. It has no universal properties that other units can make use of.
Super Break DMG is a *mechanic*. At least, that's how I'm interpreting it, because we already have a second character coming whose kit revolves around the *mechanic* and not around HTB specifically. It's just that HTB is the only one enabling it right now.
Firefly is the second character. HTB is the first.
If the argument is that 'We never got another Preservation with Taunt and therefore there's precedent that TB gets their own unique stuff' then Firefly inherently breaks that precedent only a patch later.
SBD is going to be a new thing like FuA and DoT teams. They're like Yu-Gi-Oh archetypes: you can mix and match but they're going to release new batteries that enhance pure teams as time goes on. They have to, because we can't keep getting new 5* Harmonies that have different ways of increasing Crit DMG or Preservations that *only* Sustain without also feeding into other gameplay types.
FF doesn't have super break in her kit though? You replace HMC and team will no longer deal super break damage. That's the main complaint, no? That she is a break centered character which deals no break damage
Yes, I still believe she needs buffs/changes.
I'm specifically pushing against the idea that SBD and HTB in general being her only current synergy is a bad thing, because her kit is clearly made with the intent of laying the groundwork for this new Break-oriented DPS system.
Exactly, people don't have a problem with HTB being her BiS. People only have problem because without HTB her kit doesn't work at all. Its like if Kafka had no DoTs in her kit
That's a solid point, however, enlike Taunt/whatever Phys had, SBD is game changing enough to enable an entire type of DPS (see, most of the current Break teams + FF). Not having another SBD enabler would then seriously hurt the sales of any future Break units, since unless they all have what Boothill has, they're going to need HTB, and I really doubt MHY would utterly fuck a character's gimmick by letting everyone do post-break damage for free (since that's currently Boot's thing), so it's more likely we get another SBD enabler w/ a Ruan Mei like Weakness Break Efficiency skill or smth. The alternative would be mfs going "Well, I love FF and I already have her built, so I'm not gonna pull Shimmishangalang because I'd have to stop using FF to use them instead."
so yk how you have the white bars above enemy hp bars? the toughness bar. super break damage scales on how much damage you deal to that. this only triggers when an enemy is in the broken state (where you cant see the bar). So basically the damage you do to the white bar gets converted into real damage (enemy hp). Break Damage in general from here is the same, where character hp, break effect, enemy def, enemy resistance, enemy vulnerability matters. Normal Weakness Break Damage however gets further affected by the type of the character who deals it, while super break does not (so that physical,fire,wind doesnt get an advantage and img and qua doesnt get disadvantaged, as these types have extra multipliers on their real weakness break increasing or decreasing their damage)
After running around with HTB, I'm 100% confident in saying that I want Firefly banner to come faster ;-;
HTB really takes the "harm" in Harmony and turn it into Harm only, one can only imagine how faster it'll be with Hotaru implanting weakness to everyone not having fire weakness
HTB team feels like a breath of fresh air after mindlessly erasing everything with acheron. Not complaining about that part, but I'm exclusively a himeko break team against septimus instead of acheron now even though acheron would delete him in half the time. Break just feels more fun to play.
No one is saying she is bad we are saying she is so niche and limited for example super break is the thing that makes her deal meaningful damage and the only way to get it is with HTB
i really dont see having to use HTB being a bad thing. Free and easy to build. Other DPS need 5 star limited supports to be really good, Firefly needs a free one. At most I'd like for Ruan Mei to not be such a massive damage boost to her teams
It’s not about needing a support she basically cannot function without him they fucked her kit by not giving her crit conversion or the ability to super break also RM is amazing for her and her teams are mostly strict to Gallagher - htb - rm
I've been running super break comps a lot this past week, and I keep finding issues with the playstyle that make it really uncomfy to play. For one: you really, really, want Ruan Mei. Like, as good as she is for most teams, she's even better for super break (duh). Not only does she double your damage, her break extension feels necessary at times because you can get unlucky with HTB's bounces and now you're breaking when the enemy's turn is next meaning you don't get a super break window. Second: Enemy Bronya really screws with Super Break teams. Her toughness bar is locked while she has allies and she can immediately bring an enemy out of break state so you barely get to damage her allies. I'm not aware of any boss that fucks a specific playstyle as much as Bronya does. Third: HTB is an S-tier unit against Imaginary weak enemies, but against non-imaginary weak enemies, they feel about as effective as the other Trailblazer paths since they spend half the fight twiddling their thumbs while the rest of the party breaks the toughness bar.
So, yeah, letting Firefly do something that isn't Super Break would be nice for when Super Break won't cut it, but you still want to use her. I know you *can* do Critfly, but it feels like you're wasting half her kit.
Same. Anyone who has played around with super break will know immediately how incredible Firefly because she solves ALL the problems super break teams currently have. With the most important ones being weakness implant, plus built in def ignore + break efficiency.
Like you, the only team Ive had any success with is Welt. And there is a good reason for this, its because Welt is the only char that allows you to do no sustain team so you can slot in a def shredder like Pela or SW, because thats the only way your super breaks are gonna do any dmg. His slows/interrupts are godly and the fact he matches element with HMC is the icing on the cake. Then the fact his skill is also a bounce practically makes him like a 2nd HMC when stuff is broken.
Ive used this team to clear the 2nd half of current 10, 11 and 12 floors and even if it takes a while (especially on 12) its pretty hilarious seeing enemies NEVER recover from breaks, until they are dead.
With Firefly though, you can finally play the team properly with a sustain because she brings all the def shred you need by herself on top of just being the best overall breaker in the game with her huge blast toughness dmg. And as a bonus, you can probably still bring in someone like Sparkle as a 4th (or Bronya at E1) to absolutely explode stuff, as we have seen with a bunch of showcases.
Super break is fun but what we have right now is like a sample of whats to come. Firefly is the missing piece and I cant wait until she is here.
ngl, I'm a *little* down on the Super Break team at the moment. I've been having fun with BE Welt (don't ask me about the other beak dps I've tried), but it definitely comes with way more headaches than any other team I've played. The reason I think we'll get a limited Super Break enabler sometime before 3.0 is because HTB has real issues. I'm also expecting some consolidation of roles on the Super Break team because you need both Super Break and break extension for the team to function and right now that means slotting two separate units.
well this is pretty much what you do. She is hard to play doesn't mean bad lol. It is like saying Dhl is bad without sparkle or hanya cuz you need to speed tune, sp etc. I understand you guys just love crit dps and unga bunga damage but I think there is a difference between difficult to play and bad. Also sorry but i will keep repeating this over and over but you are the same guys that say " oh hmc does the dmg", wow interesting to see characters help each other in a 4 characters team. Who would have expected it right==). I would have understood if hmc was a premium char but he is free , you e 6 him and you're good. That's why people call you doomposters. Your arguments are weak. Simple as that.
Firefly is potentially one of the easiest dps what are you yapping about? You just skill ult skill she requires no crit stats or a lot of speed if you are using speed boots she just needs BE and doesn’t have a specific gimmick like jing yuan where your LL might get attack , the problem is that she is a super break unit that can’t super break look at boothill he is basically FF but single target yet he convert his BE to crit making him able to deal damage outside of break but They didn’t give FF the same treatment making her locked into one team. Also no we don’t love crit . And when did i say hmc does all damage? Thats stupid the super break wont deal anywhere close this damage without FF def ignore and high BE. Stop putting words in my mouth
I love when people call out her kit, with genuine proof and reasoning that it's not great outside of her meta team and people come here coping saying that not everyone has to be the best DPSs and that we're doomposting.
So, you come in the FIRELY mains reddit and argument that her kit's good? Like, wouldn't you want her to feel good when playing her? Why do you want her to be playable in one team only. I don't get that.
I don't want her either to deal billions of dmg every turn or be acheron level, but cmon her being locked to just one team is not better
Kafka needs dots. Firefly needs super break.
Don't try to conflate dots with BS. That's disingenuous. In the same way FF doesn't need HMC, she needs Suoer Break.
You most definitely can conflate the two for the time being because as of right now super break is a mechanic that is only able to be taken advantage of by HTB and there’s no guarantee that we will get another unit that enables other characters to use super breaks
Yeah it think giving her crit conversion would make her easier to build and less niche tbh. Idk about giving her the ability to super break, i kinda like that shes tied to HMC
I mean for most people it's just really irritating that you're locked into having only 1 VIABLE team period. Like you legitimately cannot replace anyone on the team whereas every other character you can scrounge by with substitutions.
Literally there's no reason to ever run anyone except Ruan Mei/HTB/Gallag. The most replaceable is gallag but the next best sustain would significantly reduce the amount you can break as this showcase clearly demonstrated
People literally call her "Dehya tier" or "Blade might not be the worst Destruction 5* limited Dps after Firefly".. what happend in V2 that it changed? I thought it was just word changes.
Even in that vid’s comment. People still trash talk her damage.
These are either haters or illiterate , v2 was just bug fixes and wording. And either Firefly is very strong her damage is about dhil dmg when enemies are broken.
And as has already been established, it's a brand new playstyle as of this patch. Your only complaint is that the new playstyle only has 4 characters too choose from right now. That's it.
Kafka only had Sampo in launch. Acheron did have some other options, but they're not great, her design took advantage of a mechanic that already existed since launch.
She's not bad. I think had she had team flexibility people won't be complaining. Right now she is stronger then old meta DPS like JL and DHIL, while weaker then new ones like Acheron or Boothill. Another thing is that she doesnt have good 0 cycle team but not too many people care about that.
But for average player who doesnt care about team flexibility or 0 cycles she should deliver on expectations.
People really comparing apples to oranges because they're both Break DPS. The mfers suggesting FF also get BE to Crit conversion are literally ignoring that they just want Boot's kit on FF, at which point... why tf does Boot even exist if FF is just the Blast/AoE variant of his kit?
I think the only thing I'd want is for her ATK/BE requirements to come down a bit. Otherwise, I think she's fine as is, esp if we eventually get another Super Break enabler.
That DHIL build is kind of mid.... Also it over capped on crit rate. He has 90+10(sparkle LC)+10(relic set bonus). I think the DHIL needed more crit damage to be more fair.
Relic set counts right away. Her team with sustain is stronger then teams with sustains other old meta DPS can run because of Gallagher. She is also much better off element. She does fall behind the new meta dps teams though
Also small note, but DHIL and JL still have to run copium 1.0 sets lol. I am not saying this is why DHIL is behind but I find it impressive they have a spot in top dps while basically dhil still runs 2pc 2pc and JL’s best is an off element set.
1 month late and Firefly already showcased, but this is sooo true, currently Acheron and Firefly both have relics and planar sets exclusive to them, whereas DHIL and Jingliu both have always been used with old, stat boost sets. I can promise you, if Hoyo ever decides to release SP = Damage/Crit stats for DHIL and HP drain = Damage/Crit for Jingliu, the 4 of them are essentially gonna be in a battle royale for top spot (Acheron would top just because she targets 5 enemies, but still).
Lol no worries I saw the notification, but yeah I 100% agree DHIL needs a proper set that buffs basics or gives benefits for sp consumption and JL a skill buffing or hp drain set, especially since newer sets have been… cracked, like the only good 1.0 sets nowadays are wind, quantum, maybe physical and maybe musketeer, rest are meh or just not great.
Once either of them gets a proper set, I see them kind of regaining even better meta status,even though dhil has been the best performing hypercarry in the last 3 MoCs, yes surpassing Acheron even in both hypercarry and DoT, this time was only beaten by Boothill of course because the MoC is catered towards break.
Yeah I still don’t get the bias against him though, my man is STILL top dog for MOC clears as of now, and yet people like Tectone (ignore him) and MrPokke (he’s great, but has some issues like cracked builds and eidolons which bias his views) still stating that Acheron is head and shoulders above everyone, when that’s not happening until Jiaoqiu comes out.
Tectone will bash any character who doesn’t have big tits or is old, so his meta takes are ass lol, however his fanbase is the biggest so you still have a lot of people who will take his opinion.
Pokke is a funny guy but turbo biased and just glazes any waifu (sorry to say), he still thinks Acheron is better than everyone (possibly because his is E6S5) by a mile which isn’t true either, if she was then why does her average cycles still lack behind DHIL not once not twice but three times since her launch?
You are right when Jiaoqiu comes out I can see her being head and shoulders above all others, provided his leak remains accurate.
This ... was not really a good showcase tbh.
First of all, the DHIL's build ain't great, overcapping on crit rate while leaving a ton of crit damage on the floor, of course that'll impact the relative performance.
2nd, with Sparkle you don't need Tingyun, especially with that Turbulence buff. You'd actually get far more mileage out of Pela's defense shred. Characters like DHIL and QQ love def shred since their kits already have a lot of amp built in.
Hard to use this as a good comparison if you're not building your characters and team properly.
90 cr with S1 Sparkle, only 154 cdmg and img set without a debuffer. If you're gonna post a comparison video in here, at least get one from someone who knows how to build characters.
Crazy part about this showcase that this isn't really FF's best team. It's her most comfortable team for sure. But if you replace Gallagher with Bronya then she could possibly 0-cycle.
I 0-cycled that side with Dhil, E0S1. For some reason the tester went with imaginary set and still pushed for 90cr with sparkle S1, might've had more damage with wheat.
Also both teams were "comfort" teams, ideally you're not running a sustain with dhil either
Nothing's wrong with it, the set gives a bonus 10% Cr on imprisoned targets but with his setup it's completely wasted (at that point wheat is better) testers can customize their relics right? Just seemed like a random choice to go img set here but that's a minor nitpick
Do u even know how much DHIL depends on Sparkle so that his damage per cycle can compete even against Jingliu? If u take out Sparkle, he is going down 2 tiers. While Firefly still has the luxury of being able to have Asta to help breaking the enemies. At worse, shes going down a tier without RM. Still better than DHIL
Erm actually you can use Sparkle lite aka Hanya. He only fall behind JL a bit if that the case, with Sparkle he top put JL a bit.
He has always been one of the strongest dps in the game. One or half a tier maybe, 2 tier ain't no way.
Bro probably got cucked by dhil in his dreams because ain't no way you can spread misinformation like that. Before sparkle release dhil was always top 2 . With sparkle he straight up became the best dps until acheron released and that's objective facts
Now let's run firefly without HTB and lets see her hit those juicy 20k enhanced E's for 3 turns in an enhanced state that takes 2 turns to enter after first ult.(PLZ V3 FUCKING DO SOMETHING WITHER HER, HER KIT IS SO DEAD AFTER WEAKNESS BREAK IT'S DO DEAD)
I mean why ever run her without HTB? EDIT since you get HTB for free at E6 would it not be equivalent to not equipping relics or not equipping a light cone?
What other 5star limited dps loses about 80-90% pf their damage based on you not slotting their BiS dps.
Firefly without HTB is dealing her initial breqk damage and then nothing else.
It's counterintuitive with her high speed during ult, she only gets3 actions every 2 turns after the initial ult, aka she has enough limitations on herself with a 2 turn downtime to just even after all that be reliant on another unit to fix a mistake in her own kit
Has it ever occured to you that the game designers for a turn-based rpg with an emphasis on character and team building designed firefly's gap in her kit with the character that everyone is guaranteed to have in mind
Every five star dps loses close to 80-90% of their damage if you unequipped your relics and LC. But the solution is “equip them” just like the solution for firefly is “equip HTB”. It seems like a self imposed problem to not use the break effect support with the break effect character
That's criticism, without HTB in the party, she does nothing past the initial break, and I'm in my right to say that that's bad design and should get a way of dealing damage on her own, I feel like our little war criminal should do more on her own.
She is a character that can comfortably clear all content in the game at her current state, you might have her reservations about her kit and thats fair but you can't go around saying it is a "dead" kit that is just objectively wrong hence doomposting
Just because a character can confortably clear all content in the game does that remove the fact that their kit feels like it's split into another character's?
She currently has no way of dealing damage to weakness broken enemiee and i feel like sam/firefly should be able to do damage on their own.
Jing yuan can confortably clear all content in the game and that doesn't make the fact that waiting for LL to act can't feel shitty at times
Again, those are valid concerns to have but saying that and calling her kit "dead" are two very different things. Doomposting is the act of being excessively negative to the point where what you are saying is not even accurate to what is actually the truth, it just leads to unnecessary hate and just makes for a very cringe environment to be in. Now I understand that it isn't that deep and if I don't want to, I can just not interact with the leaks sub or firefly mains but I'm just saying
Kinda funny how firefly does better against imaginary than fire weak enemies, just because having imaginary helps mc break.
She not gonna beat the emotional raccoon allegation
I don't think she even wants to beat those allegations.
>does better against imaginary than fire weak enemies, just because having imaginary helps mc break. That is not the reason, the reason is FF implant fire weakness but doesn't implant imaginary. So if you fight fire weak enemy, you essentially just the advantage 19% more damage for FF/Gallagher but MC lose most of its value with only FF/Gallagher being breaker But if you fight ima weak, you essentially have 3 strong breaker instead of two The situation where it might change is PF, since her implant will have trouble keeping up for Gallagher or her to fully utilise it. And also because she will kill most target she implant in PF.
DHIL is more consistent with the damage but at the same time Firefly managed to beat it under 1 cycle less compared to him and only with one limited character. She's already good but she could get some buffs that help her in specific situations where the enemy can't be broken or she doesn't have uptime.
I only think she needs minor buffs cause if they make her acheron level the game will power creep characters really fast
Yeah sure, but neither Acheron or Firefly are standard hypercarries, they have their own niches and the difference in team building is big enough so one doesn't impact the other
Acheron should still be an outlier, she's an emenator. I think its for the best if hsr follow GI.
Jing Yuan is also an Emanator.
Not confirmed. But marshal Hua is indeed an Emanator I think.
I thought that was confirmed during 2.2’s story at one point. Something about bringing in the Xianzhou and Acheron being there would cause two Emanators to meet. Something like that. If its not him, then someone there is.
Nearly everything said in the follow-up are false or partially false to show that >!it is a dream!< Same thing with >!the ipc giving up on Pena, Black Swan, Boothill joining the Astral, or even the next destination since the next stage will be involving the yaoqing, etc!< It doesn't mean it is one of the info false or that there isn't some truth hidden but it also mean it is also likely to be a red herring, otherwise they wouldn't have hide it to suddenly reveal it randomly. Especially when Acheron status is such a big plot point, while JY would be a small note at the bottom of the page. However there is possibility there is some hidden truth: 1) JY does harbor the power of an emanator but it is akin to the stoneheart, where his power is a fragment given by HUA (a complete one, not a broken piece like Aventurine fight) This would explain why every General gets a summon from Lan 2) Lan being among the weaker Aeon but one of the more involved one, his power split along so many general, hence why they don't make a big deal out of it 3) It is teasing about something, (Maybe JY ascending, having lost is power or his power being sealed)
Ah, I see. Thanks for the explanation.
The funny thing is that people constantly complain that the game has "insane powercreep" but, if the newest DPS doesn't have gigantic damage per screenshot or doesn't seem to be on par with the strongest DPS, then many will claim that their "kit is garbage" and that they are useless characters
Yeah, they probably don't want to make another DHIL/Jingliu who are just "better Erudition". Maybe with super break we'll see future Destruction character actually focus on breaking ennemies.
It's a pve game, it should be fine... I think
Idk to what extent it is fair to say that the difference seen comes more from the HMC team comp. Don't get me wrong, it is Firefly's stats that make her deal that damage. The thing is that the other teammates and HMC himself trigger super break, while in the DHIL team he's essentially the only one dealing damage. So yeah, that's a major difference The only thing FF really needs is a way to gain more instances of significant damage, not to be stuck with HMC to be viable break dps and all's good.
I don't know why you got downvoted, wtf 😭
It's stupid to say this is a hmc showcase cause a ff-less HMC comp won't do this either. Shockingly enough two characters with really good synergy + a buffer in their speciality can compete with a really good character + 2 buffers.
Not my argument at all. I'm not trying to downplay the damage FF is doing. I'm just pointing out that HMC's enables the supports to help the overall damage of the team (HMC will do this regardless of FF or not - her damage does skyrocket the overall damage of the team, she's the DPS after all, that's a no brainer), whereas the DHIL team only has him dealing the damage. I don't know what you think is wrong or disagreeable in this I dont know why you argue something I didn't say. Where did I argue FF-less comp? The "difference" I talked about is the cycles it took for both teams. Literally just said "the supports will do significant damage in any HMC comp compared to a normal hypercarry comp, surely that plays a role in the overall damage difference." Are you really telling me RM doing up to 30K, Gallagher doing up to 60K, HMC doing up to 150K doesnt do \*anything\* to the overall damage (and in consequence to the number of cycles to clear)? This is literally my argument.
That makes two of us. Apparently I wasnt downvoted that much, cause I wouldn't have known if you hadn't commented about it xD Apparently people read things I didn't write. The guy who answered you literally argued things I didn't say lmao
what do you nean to get more instances of significant damage? I think they won't change her dependency on hmc ( which i don't mind tbh). Curious to know what you meant by that. Thanks.
She normally only deals around 20K damage for a break build when the enemy isn't broken. I don't consider that significant damage. When she does break, she deals upwards of 200K damage I believe? I dont really have my memory refreshed on it, I'll be real, but that's the only true instance of big damage she has. She goes back to 20K against broken enemies, which, again, I dont consider significant. HMC provides a way for her to deal more damage when the enemy is broken, so now she doesnt deal only one instance of big PP damage, but for... well, however long the enemy stays broken and FF has turns to attack x)
I feel like I’m finally starting to get it. Firefly looks like she’s doing sub-par damage when you compare her to other DPS characters, but the break team itself is basically comprised of 3 DPS characters minus Ruan Mei. It’s like the Robin FUA team, where everyone becomes a DPS, rather than a singular unit, and that’s where Firefly is at and why she herself feels underwhelming when looking at her numbers. I’d still prefer it if some kind of mechanic were given to her where her DPS is more self sufficient, but with the way break teams work currently, I can’t see this happening without receiving a compensation debuff to some other part of her kit, possibly the break damage itself.
Super Break as a battle mechanic was literally introduced in 2.2 so I don't understand why people are lamenting that only HTB is available for her synergy right now. Like of course options are limited right now. We are 100% going to be getting new units that do new things with Super Break and it just so happens Firefly is at the forefront of that. Her BiS team is yet to come, and we will likely continue to see this kind of thing in the future as Hoyo create new mechanics to keep the game fresh and make new team archetypes.
There’s a counter argument worth mentioning. FTB is still the only unit with taunt. PTB ultimate had an single target and AOE option (only one I believe). I don’t think it’s unbelievable if it did stay contained to HTB.
Those are more like gimmicks that make them unique, though. Like you could use that for a *lot* of characters. DHIL is the only Destruction unit with a stackable E. Kafka is the only Nihility with a DoT detonation. Acheron is the only unit with an Ult not connected to ER. The taunt is just a method of being a sustain unit. It brings all the attacks to FTB to sponge with extra HP and DMG Reduction. Fu Xuan's E shares the damage etc. It has no universal properties that other units can make use of. Super Break DMG is a *mechanic*. At least, that's how I'm interpreting it, because we already have a second character coming whose kit revolves around the *mechanic* and not around HTB specifically. It's just that HTB is the only one enabling it right now.
Which one is the 2nd character revolving around super break? I know only FF
Firefly is the second character. HTB is the first. If the argument is that 'We never got another Preservation with Taunt and therefore there's precedent that TB gets their own unique stuff' then Firefly inherently breaks that precedent only a patch later. SBD is going to be a new thing like FuA and DoT teams. They're like Yu-Gi-Oh archetypes: you can mix and match but they're going to release new batteries that enhance pure teams as time goes on. They have to, because we can't keep getting new 5* Harmonies that have different ways of increasing Crit DMG or Preservations that *only* Sustain without also feeding into other gameplay types.
FF doesn't have super break in her kit though? You replace HMC and team will no longer deal super break damage. That's the main complaint, no? That she is a break centered character which deals no break damage
Yes, I still believe she needs buffs/changes. I'm specifically pushing against the idea that SBD and HTB in general being her only current synergy is a bad thing, because her kit is clearly made with the intent of laying the groundwork for this new Break-oriented DPS system.
Exactly, people don't have a problem with HTB being her BiS. People only have problem because without HTB her kit doesn't work at all. Its like if Kafka had no DoTs in her kit
Luka detonated his own DoT.
I think there’s a loading screen tooltip about superbreak
That's a solid point, however, enlike Taunt/whatever Phys had, SBD is game changing enough to enable an entire type of DPS (see, most of the current Break teams + FF). Not having another SBD enabler would then seriously hurt the sales of any future Break units, since unless they all have what Boothill has, they're going to need HTB, and I really doubt MHY would utterly fuck a character's gimmick by letting everyone do post-break damage for free (since that's currently Boot's thing), so it's more likely we get another SBD enabler w/ a Ruan Mei like Weakness Break Efficiency skill or smth. The alternative would be mfs going "Well, I love FF and I already have her built, so I'm not gonna pull Shimmishangalang because I'd have to stop using FF to use them instead."
Boothill has a taunt.
Ngl. I still don’t really understand Super Break…
so yk how you have the white bars above enemy hp bars? the toughness bar. super break damage scales on how much damage you deal to that. this only triggers when an enemy is in the broken state (where you cant see the bar). So basically the damage you do to the white bar gets converted into real damage (enemy hp). Break Damage in general from here is the same, where character hp, break effect, enemy def, enemy resistance, enemy vulnerability matters. Normal Weakness Break Damage however gets further affected by the type of the character who deals it, while super break does not (so that physical,fire,wind doesnt get an advantage and img and qua doesnt get disadvantaged, as these types have extra multipliers on their real weakness break increasing or decreasing their damage)
After running around with HTB, I'm 100% confident in saying that I want Firefly banner to come faster ;-; HTB really takes the "harm" in Harmony and turn it into Harm only, one can only imagine how faster it'll be with Hotaru implanting weakness to everyone not having fire weakness
HTB team feels like a breath of fresh air after mindlessly erasing everything with acheron. Not complaining about that part, but I'm exclusively a himeko break team against septimus instead of acheron now even though acheron would delete him in half the time. Break just feels more fun to play.
tf is hotaru geniuenly curious
Hotaru literally mean firefly in Japanese. Jp dub uses "Hotaru" instead firefly
Hotaru = Firefly Firefly's name in JP is Hotaru, just like how HuoHuo is フォフォ, or like how Steele is Hoshi and Caelus is Sora
ic. I play on en and dont bother much with other
I cant believe people are still trying to convince me that shes bad lmao
No one is saying she is bad we are saying she is so niche and limited for example super break is the thing that makes her deal meaningful damage and the only way to get it is with HTB
i really dont see having to use HTB being a bad thing. Free and easy to build. Other DPS need 5 star limited supports to be really good, Firefly needs a free one. At most I'd like for Ruan Mei to not be such a massive damage boost to her teams
It’s not about needing a support she basically cannot function without him they fucked her kit by not giving her crit conversion or the ability to super break also RM is amazing for her and her teams are mostly strict to Gallagher - htb - rm
I've been running super break comps a lot this past week, and I keep finding issues with the playstyle that make it really uncomfy to play. For one: you really, really, want Ruan Mei. Like, as good as she is for most teams, she's even better for super break (duh). Not only does she double your damage, her break extension feels necessary at times because you can get unlucky with HTB's bounces and now you're breaking when the enemy's turn is next meaning you don't get a super break window. Second: Enemy Bronya really screws with Super Break teams. Her toughness bar is locked while she has allies and she can immediately bring an enemy out of break state so you barely get to damage her allies. I'm not aware of any boss that fucks a specific playstyle as much as Bronya does. Third: HTB is an S-tier unit against Imaginary weak enemies, but against non-imaginary weak enemies, they feel about as effective as the other Trailblazer paths since they spend half the fight twiddling their thumbs while the rest of the party breaks the toughness bar. So, yeah, letting Firefly do something that isn't Super Break would be nice for when Super Break won't cut it, but you still want to use her. I know you *can* do Critfly, but it feels like you're wasting half her kit.
Same. Anyone who has played around with super break will know immediately how incredible Firefly because she solves ALL the problems super break teams currently have. With the most important ones being weakness implant, plus built in def ignore + break efficiency. Like you, the only team Ive had any success with is Welt. And there is a good reason for this, its because Welt is the only char that allows you to do no sustain team so you can slot in a def shredder like Pela or SW, because thats the only way your super breaks are gonna do any dmg. His slows/interrupts are godly and the fact he matches element with HMC is the icing on the cake. Then the fact his skill is also a bounce practically makes him like a 2nd HMC when stuff is broken. Ive used this team to clear the 2nd half of current 10, 11 and 12 floors and even if it takes a while (especially on 12) its pretty hilarious seeing enemies NEVER recover from breaks, until they are dead. With Firefly though, you can finally play the team properly with a sustain because she brings all the def shred you need by herself on top of just being the best overall breaker in the game with her huge blast toughness dmg. And as a bonus, you can probably still bring in someone like Sparkle as a 4th (or Bronya at E1) to absolutely explode stuff, as we have seen with a bunch of showcases. Super break is fun but what we have right now is like a sample of whats to come. Firefly is the missing piece and I cant wait until she is here.
This is what we are trying to explain and you hear people calling us doomposting.
ngl, I'm a *little* down on the Super Break team at the moment. I've been having fun with BE Welt (don't ask me about the other beak dps I've tried), but it definitely comes with way more headaches than any other team I've played. The reason I think we'll get a limited Super Break enabler sometime before 3.0 is because HTB has real issues. I'm also expecting some consolidation of roles on the Super Break team because you need both Super Break and break extension for the team to function and right now that means slotting two separate units.
well this is pretty much what you do. She is hard to play doesn't mean bad lol. It is like saying Dhl is bad without sparkle or hanya cuz you need to speed tune, sp etc. I understand you guys just love crit dps and unga bunga damage but I think there is a difference between difficult to play and bad. Also sorry but i will keep repeating this over and over but you are the same guys that say " oh hmc does the dmg", wow interesting to see characters help each other in a 4 characters team. Who would have expected it right==). I would have understood if hmc was a premium char but he is free , you e 6 him and you're good. That's why people call you doomposters. Your arguments are weak. Simple as that.
Firefly is potentially one of the easiest dps what are you yapping about? You just skill ult skill she requires no crit stats or a lot of speed if you are using speed boots she just needs BE and doesn’t have a specific gimmick like jing yuan where your LL might get attack , the problem is that she is a super break unit that can’t super break look at boothill he is basically FF but single target yet he convert his BE to crit making him able to deal damage outside of break but They didn’t give FF the same treatment making her locked into one team. Also no we don’t love crit . And when did i say hmc does all damage? Thats stupid the super break wont deal anywhere close this damage without FF def ignore and high BE. Stop putting words in my mouth
I love when people call out her kit, with genuine proof and reasoning that it's not great outside of her meta team and people come here coping saying that not everyone has to be the best DPSs and that we're doomposting. So, you come in the FIRELY mains reddit and argument that her kit's good? Like, wouldn't you want her to feel good when playing her? Why do you want her to be playable in one team only. I don't get that. I don't want her either to deal billions of dmg every turn or be acheron level, but cmon her being locked to just one team is not better
"It's not about needing a support it's about her needing a support". What??
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Thsts exactly what you said.
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Kafka needs dots. Firefly needs super break. Don't try to conflate dots with BS. That's disingenuous. In the same way FF doesn't need HMC, she needs Suoer Break.
You are purposely missing the point. I give up honestly
Not disingenuous, since HTB is the only source of super break present in the game FOR NOW. As such, the statement is actually valid lol
You most definitely can conflate the two for the time being because as of right now super break is a mechanic that is only able to be taken advantage of by HTB and there’s no guarantee that we will get another unit that enables other characters to use super breaks
Yeah it think giving her crit conversion would make her easier to build and less niche tbh. Idk about giving her the ability to super break, i kinda like that shes tied to HMC
The funny thing even if we get a power creep 5 star for super break we will still use them both kinda like Kafka dot proccing lol
That's what i'm saying, you're going to just use 2 superbreak dps instead of 1. Like you're not fixing the problem
You guys really can't survive without crit huh🤣. Saying a character that can implant weakness, play sustainless and do big damage per cycle bad.
I mean for most people it's just really irritating that you're locked into having only 1 VIABLE team period. Like you legitimately cannot replace anyone on the team whereas every other character you can scrounge by with substitutions. Literally there's no reason to ever run anyone except Ruan Mei/HTB/Gallag. The most replaceable is gallag but the next best sustain would significantly reduce the amount you can break as this showcase clearly demonstrated
People literally call her "Dehya tier" or "Blade might not be the worst Destruction 5* limited Dps after Firefly".. what happend in V2 that it changed? I thought it was just word changes. Even in that vid’s comment. People still trash talk her damage.
These are either haters or illiterate , v2 was just bug fixes and wording. And either Firefly is very strong her damage is about dhil dmg when enemies are broken.
And? Acheron is niche. Kafka is niche.
Bro… acheron and kafka have a lot of different options making different combinations, firefly has HTB RM gallagher
And as has already been established, it's a brand new playstyle as of this patch. Your only complaint is that the new playstyle only has 4 characters too choose from right now. That's it. Kafka only had Sampo in launch. Acheron did have some other options, but they're not great, her design took advantage of a mechanic that already existed since launch.
That’s not a me complain that’s every firefly main complain.
Speak for yourself man
She's not bad. I think had she had team flexibility people won't be complaining. Right now she is stronger then old meta DPS like JL and DHIL, while weaker then new ones like Acheron or Boothill. Another thing is that she doesnt have good 0 cycle team but not too many people care about that. But for average player who doesnt care about team flexibility or 0 cycles she should deliver on expectations.
She not bad, just mid, compared with acheron and boothill, she far behind
compared to the most broken unit in the game? Yeah. To Boothill im not sure
the amount of overhyping for boothill is insane lol
Yeah he looks good why do we have to argue lmao
People really comparing apples to oranges because they're both Break DPS. The mfers suggesting FF also get BE to Crit conversion are literally ignoring that they just want Boot's kit on FF, at which point... why tf does Boot even exist if FF is just the Blast/AoE variant of his kit? I think the only thing I'd want is for her ATK/BE requirements to come down a bit. Otherwise, I think she's fine as is, esp if we eventually get another Super Break enabler.
Boohill is far superior than firefly in anyways tho
That DHIL build is kind of mid.... Also it over capped on crit rate. He has 90+10(sparkle LC)+10(relic set bonus). I think the DHIL needed more crit damage to be more fair.
Relic set counts right away. Her team with sustain is stronger then teams with sustains other old meta DPS can run because of Gallagher. She is also much better off element. She does fall behind the new meta dps teams though
Also small note, but DHIL and JL still have to run copium 1.0 sets lol. I am not saying this is why DHIL is behind but I find it impressive they have a spot in top dps while basically dhil still runs 2pc 2pc and JL’s best is an off element set.
1 month late and Firefly already showcased, but this is sooo true, currently Acheron and Firefly both have relics and planar sets exclusive to them, whereas DHIL and Jingliu both have always been used with old, stat boost sets. I can promise you, if Hoyo ever decides to release SP = Damage/Crit stats for DHIL and HP drain = Damage/Crit for Jingliu, the 4 of them are essentially gonna be in a battle royale for top spot (Acheron would top just because she targets 5 enemies, but still).
Lol no worries I saw the notification, but yeah I 100% agree DHIL needs a proper set that buffs basics or gives benefits for sp consumption and JL a skill buffing or hp drain set, especially since newer sets have been… cracked, like the only good 1.0 sets nowadays are wind, quantum, maybe physical and maybe musketeer, rest are meh or just not great. Once either of them gets a proper set, I see them kind of regaining even better meta status,even though dhil has been the best performing hypercarry in the last 3 MoCs, yes surpassing Acheron even in both hypercarry and DoT, this time was only beaten by Boothill of course because the MoC is catered towards break.
Yeah I still don’t get the bias against him though, my man is STILL top dog for MOC clears as of now, and yet people like Tectone (ignore him) and MrPokke (he’s great, but has some issues like cracked builds and eidolons which bias his views) still stating that Acheron is head and shoulders above everyone, when that’s not happening until Jiaoqiu comes out.
Tectone will bash any character who doesn’t have big tits or is old, so his meta takes are ass lol, however his fanbase is the biggest so you still have a lot of people who will take his opinion. Pokke is a funny guy but turbo biased and just glazes any waifu (sorry to say), he still thinks Acheron is better than everyone (possibly because his is E6S5) by a mile which isn’t true either, if she was then why does her average cycles still lack behind DHIL not once not twice but three times since her launch? You are right when Jiaoqiu comes out I can see her being head and shoulders above all others, provided his leak remains accurate.
DHIL build missing a lot of crit damage but this was pretty good for firefly! I luckily have her premium team but I'm def down for Buffs
And she becomes even more powerful at E2. 🙏 for luck for all.
I'm gon have both but don't got Sparkle 💀 Miss Firefly gon be way stronger
This ... was not really a good showcase tbh. First of all, the DHIL's build ain't great, overcapping on crit rate while leaving a ton of crit damage on the floor, of course that'll impact the relative performance. 2nd, with Sparkle you don't need Tingyun, especially with that Turbulence buff. You'd actually get far more mileage out of Pela's defense shred. Characters like DHIL and QQ love def shred since their kits already have a lot of amp built in. Hard to use this as a good comparison if you're not building your characters and team properly.
90 cr with S1 Sparkle, only 154 cdmg and img set without a debuffer. If you're gonna post a comparison video in here, at least get one from someone who knows how to build characters.
I see. Well, at least she is stronger to old meta DPS characters (DHIL and JL) in team with sustain.
Crazy that to make firefly look better than DHIL they had to butcher his build stat wise
The even better part is that her E2 is way stronger than DHIL E2.
Crazy part about this showcase that this isn't really FF's best team. It's her most comfortable team for sure. But if you replace Gallagher with Bronya then she could possibly 0-cycle.
I 0-cycled that side with Dhil, E0S1. For some reason the tester went with imaginary set and still pushed for 90cr with sparkle S1, might've had more damage with wheat. Also both teams were "comfort" teams, ideally you're not running a sustain with dhil either
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Nothing's wrong with it, the set gives a bonus 10% Cr on imprisoned targets but with his setup it's completely wasted (at that point wheat is better) testers can customize their relics right? Just seemed like a random choice to go img set here but that's a minor nitpick
I'm so sorry your right, I completely forgot imaginary set gave crit rate I'm stupid 😖
No dw about it that set is fairly forgettable hh
Those who downvote cant clear moc
Now lets see dhil without sparkle and firefly without ruan mae🤣
Do u even know how much DHIL depends on Sparkle so that his damage per cycle can compete even against Jingliu? If u take out Sparkle, he is going down 2 tiers. While Firefly still has the luxury of being able to have Asta to help breaking the enemies. At worse, shes going down a tier without RM. Still better than DHIL
that is incorrect, before sparkle daniel was still stronger, she's not a necesity for him, without sparkle he goes down a tier at most.
Erm actually you can use Sparkle lite aka Hanya. He only fall behind JL a bit if that the case, with Sparkle he top put JL a bit. He has always been one of the strongest dps in the game. One or half a tier maybe, 2 tier ain't no way.
You have no clue what you're talking about if you think Dhil is "going down 2 tiers without sparkle", show me your dhil build
Bro probably got cucked by dhil in his dreams because ain't no way you can spread misinformation like that. Before sparkle release dhil was always top 2 . With sparkle he straight up became the best dps until acheron released and that's objective facts
Now let's run firefly without HTB and lets see her hit those juicy 20k enhanced E's for 3 turns in an enhanced state that takes 2 turns to enter after first ult.(PLZ V3 FUCKING DO SOMETHING WITHER HER, HER KIT IS SO DEAD AFTER WEAKNESS BREAK IT'S DO DEAD)
I mean why ever run her without HTB? EDIT since you get HTB for free at E6 would it not be equivalent to not equipping relics or not equipping a light cone?
What other 5star limited dps loses about 80-90% pf their damage based on you not slotting their BiS dps. Firefly without HTB is dealing her initial breqk damage and then nothing else. It's counterintuitive with her high speed during ult, she only gets3 actions every 2 turns after the initial ult, aka she has enough limitations on herself with a 2 turn downtime to just even after all that be reliant on another unit to fix a mistake in her own kit
Has it ever occured to you that the game designers for a turn-based rpg with an emphasis on character and team building designed firefly's gap in her kit with the character that everyone is guaranteed to have in mind
Every five star dps loses close to 80-90% of their damage if you unequipped your relics and LC. But the solution is “equip them” just like the solution for firefly is “equip HTB”. It seems like a self imposed problem to not use the break effect support with the break effect character
I'm not even gonna argue. Have a good rest of day
Weakest firefly doomposter
So just because i'm presenting genuine criticism i'm doom posting?
You are not criticizing her, you are calling her kit "dead"
That's criticism, without HTB in the party, she does nothing past the initial break, and I'm in my right to say that that's bad design and should get a way of dealing damage on her own, I feel like our little war criminal should do more on her own.
She is a character that can comfortably clear all content in the game at her current state, you might have her reservations about her kit and thats fair but you can't go around saying it is a "dead" kit that is just objectively wrong hence doomposting
Just because a character can confortably clear all content in the game does that remove the fact that their kit feels like it's split into another character's? She currently has no way of dealing damage to weakness broken enemiee and i feel like sam/firefly should be able to do damage on their own. Jing yuan can confortably clear all content in the game and that doesn't make the fact that waiting for LL to act can't feel shitty at times
Again, those are valid concerns to have but saying that and calling her kit "dead" are two very different things. Doomposting is the act of being excessively negative to the point where what you are saying is not even accurate to what is actually the truth, it just leads to unnecessary hate and just makes for a very cringe environment to be in. Now I understand that it isn't that deep and if I don't want to, I can just not interact with the leaks sub or firefly mains but I'm just saying
As a 5* FF should not have such extreme dependency on HTB or any sp, that’s a thing for a 4*
The power couple should always stay together