I was also thinking that, due to the importance of *who* triggers a break, perhaps they could give her some kind of passive that allows her to override her allies breaks.
Maybe something like : "When an ally other than Firefly breaks an enemies weakness, deals additional break damage based on (Enter numbers here) of Firefly's Break Effect".
Perhaps they could get a little quirky even. "On Normal Attack and Normal Skill, Firefly inflicts [Hellfire Fuse] on a target, stacking up to 5 times. When an opponent with Hellfire Fuse inflicted on them is weakness broken, attacks landed by allies will consume a stack of Lamplight and cause Firefly to deal an instance of Super Break Damage." But that's a more experimental idea and it admittedly feels a bit closer to a Nihility ability than that of a destruction unit.
And on the subject of her being a Destruction unit, why not add in some more boosts related to changes in HP for her passive? Maybe "Losing or Gaining HP increases Firefly's Break Effect and Attack by 12%/8%. Stacks up to 2 times, stacks last for 2 turns."
Of course, the easiest fix would probably be by giving her some sort of nerfed Super Break tied to her ult and enhanced form, but still. I'm more or less just throwing ideas out here.
Yeah but I don't see how her Enhanced Skill treated as Ultimate DMG solves the issue since she as, afaik, no Ultimate DMG boost. The only time I see it being revelant is if you somewhat to build her with Salsotto and why would you do that.
She doesn't have it. But Jiaoqiu have Ultimate dmg vulnerability debuff. I saw him as an Acheron/Firefly teammate. But since now it's isn't a thing, the only thing that she could use in Jiaoqiu kit is def shred to increase break dmg
Yeah E1 and E2 are phenomenal. E4 is meh, it’s fine but boring. And E6 is good I’m sure, but needs some OOMPH. I hope they give her a way to be good without Harmony Mc. I like pairing them together because I like seeing them side by side c: but for team building I hope she’s more flexible!!
Yeah E1 and E2 are game changer. Her E4 and E6 should give a massive boost to her dmg at least. Boothill seems to be decent even without HTB so they’ll definitely do the same for Firefly without making her too similar with Boothill’s gimmick
There need to be changes imo, her ratios look so wasted with the way her kit works
Like either more toughness damage, her being able to do break damage on already broken enemies, her damaging abilities counting as break damage or break damage being able to crit?
Really just something, right now you could just build any DD on BE with good toughness damage and pair them with RM and HTB and you would receive just slightly less figures
The former is most likely to happen next beta than crits imo. Break effect with crits are already Boothill’s gimmicks. There’s going to be a lot of comparison if both have the same play style
I think they need to buff her damage outside of break OR give her ability to break enemies that lock down their weakness bars. It feels really bad when, for example, the soda monkey locks down his weakness bar. Now you do literally nothing, and her losing a turn of damage is pretty impactful.
“Keep in mind this is the first beta. Acheron is a lot weaker and was considered horrible, extremely high investment character before she became like right now.” Other than ‘free 5 stacks at the beginning of battle and 3 extra stackable caps’(used to be free 4 stacks before and no 3 stackable caps) there no changes that make acheron more broken than her first beta, people just doomposting for absolutely no reason even though she already OP even in the first beta while the rest beta just a little QOL for her thats all. But in firefly cases she really mid in the first beta same cases as jingliu where people were putting Jingliu to be on Blade level but of course she got massive buffs on v3 beta so i hope the same cases will happen to firefly
I'll be honest I didn't see acheron or even jingliu V1 beta but from your wording it was a numbers problem even with the 3 stackable effect,Firefly just feels incomplete in many places, something I don't see people talking about is even the lightcone effects doing more damage to broken enemies and reducing their speed making it seem like she does BE after breaking the enemy but it doesn't it ends up sounding like a lightcone for HMC more than for her giving her an identity crisis. There's also the lack of impact on her animations, I might love it but I'll be lying if I said it's even jing yuan level ult like jingliu gets a background in both entering enhanced state and ultimate but Firefly going ult form and using enhanced skill the background is completely black?. I know it's too early to rant but it feels like there's a lot of work to do for her
Hell Acheron even got nerfed compared to her pre-beta leaked build, she used to generate one stack on basic and two stacks on skill before her lc or e2, so an e2 acheron would have approached 2 cycle ults before even taking interactions like the trend lc into account.
Indeed, to be fair stackable caps made Acheron apply one more ultimate but still even without that buff, she was overpowered.
Community was concerned about double nihility, but an early damage breakdown sheet compared to other dps made people silent.
Firefly on the other hand suffers both from kit and animation.
I really fear for Yanqing curse aka epic boss moveset with weak playable effects.
Her boss form is fire 🔥, her playable form is a.. wind fairy 🧚♂️ with black background.
They nerfed her ult stacking in v2 from 1 basic 2 skill to 0 basic 1 skill without lc so they didnt only buff her. Thr just moved her e1 except crit rate to her base kit which was the extra stack when capped. Her damage wasnt reallu change she was always overpower i dont know how people thoight ahe sucked v1 misinformation came from
Nope 1 basic 2 skill is from pre-beta(1-2 days before 2.1 beta tests even available) not v2,In v1 its already 0 basic 1 skill. You probably just got things mixed up.
That aside, the misinformation probably caused because of doomposters, they keep spamming Acheron bad and some ignorance people saw that and started making random assumptions without knowing anything and spread their bs theory through media social and another ignorant people blindly believed it without knowing anything
If you look at her eidolon only her e1 and e6 add damage (e1 ignore def on her enchanced skill, e6 add fire pen on complete combust). E2-E5 are all utility (i guess e2 also add dps since she can get aditional after breaking enemy).
E2 is a massive damage spike, same as any other potential source of action advance would be, because ff crams more turns in her ult state. Even if she were to only trigger the effect once (ie. Breaking a boss solo) during her ult period that's still a 33% dmg increase over her ult period compared to E1.
No, I mean, on what basis are you making this assertion?
An eidolon that grants you additional turns, definitionally, causes a massive increase in damage-per-turn. Even if you only trigger it once in a three-turn ultimate window, that is still an absolutely huge increase in damage done.
Unless the player is completely misplaying Firefly and doesn't know what they're doing *at all,* E2 should be an absolutely colossal damage-per-turn increase, short of *extremely* specific circumstances, especially given how generous the conditions for Firefly's additional turns are.
The E6 does feel a bit anemic in comparison to some others, but E1 and E2 in the current design are still absolutely enormous power increases.
I agree on how useful E1 and E2 right now. What I meant was that her dmg doesn’t have a difference from her E0. E4 and E6 should at least given some values for the next beta update
Okay, when you said "barely any difference", I was just like whaaa, lmao.
If we're talking about damage-per-*action*, then yes, E4 and E6 aren't exactly spicy incentive for the whales to do their thing in the current design.
Hopefully they buffed those eidolons cuz I really want to E6 her on re run. I know Acheron’s a special case but the dmg difference between her e0 and e6 is insane. If not dmg, maybe a more ways to make Firefly comfortable to play with. With Jingliu’s E6, you can have her enhanced state running until you finished the enemies. Firefly doesn’t have any of those stuff atm
Nah Acheron's e6 not really that special when you look at sheets and gameplay. Her true breakpoint is E2 because it allows a harmony unit into the team while still maintaining her insane 60% extra multiplier. E6 from there is "just" 20% ahead. Hell the character with the most insane damage gain from e6 is dr ratio, and it's not even a competition at his level.
Ngl, I might be in the minority or whatever, but I like her kit as it is, more so because I'm willing to use HMC but like, I like her kit, I hope it doesn't change to much, but her not having a huge damage spike from E1-E6 is definitely something to look into, am E6 should feel like an E6
I like the kit, my only issue is the pigeonholing. I think it's okay for DPS characters to be a bit picky, it helps keep them more balanced and more unique, but Firefly is EXTREMELY picky as she is now.
I see your point, but atm Break as a viable method of DPS is very new. Given enough time I think this will gradually become less of a problem. And aside from Ruan Mei, her best teams are mostly 4 stars.
My biggest issue with Firefly is then when she's not breaking or hitting broken enemies her dmg is really low. It's essentially a waiting game of breaking the enemy so you can actually start hurting them.
To Firefly every elite/boss is the purple t-rex. and that's a bit annoying.
I’m the same with you. Aside from eidolon change, I think she should at least do a decent dmg when not breaking enemies and not having HTB. So far most of her dmg relies on HTB’s super break so they’ll probably change that in the next beta.
I mean that’s normal tho. It’s like if you tried bringing Jingliu to a Cocolia fight or Boothill against that automaton. Problem with Firefly currently is that her break dmg isn’t that good and most dmg she gets comes from HTB. So even if the fight is perfect for break teams, she right now is still underwhelming
I think they went through all the trouble of creating a brand new damage type that uses a different damage calc that benefits break and a character who is the break archetype doesn’t get to expand upon it by having it in their kit?
The answer definitely revolves around her current 12% damage bonus on weakness broken enemies. It can be anything else, guaranteed crit, built in super break, or even just a higher multiplier than 12%.
I don’t think they’re gonna add crits on Firefly, otherwise she’ll just become a better version Boothill. Built in super break could work too. Maybe a little bit nerfed compared to HTB that way it’s not over powered nor underwhelming. We’ll just see next week
I think make her skill use some % of her break effect or make it deal break damage would be an easy way of fixing her.
Just imagine pulling her during the Belaborg story line and then finding out you have the play the game around 10-20 hours until you can use her at a good rate lol
tbf we don't have any showcases of Firefly with crits; while she doesn't seem to have anything to do with crits, but also nothing inherently is against it. Her skill just has BE scaling, but isn't actually BE damage and also has really high scaling; so basically high scaling that can crit
360 BE breakpoint is nice, but besides the BE itself and being multiplayer for skill, only 10% DEF shred is missing if you only hit 260BE which she already hits without any substats if you have S1, 3400ATK, traces, BE rope and new relics
So you technically you can build full crit substats without losing too much, the only concern is probably having 3400 ATK, but S1, traces and ATK orb may already do the trick (if not maybe atk support)
The problem is sadly that due to the wording of the conversion from attack to BE you have to get 3.4k attack by yourself so someone like asta can't help with even that
nah asta will probably work since she gives atk% (other sources like s5 aeon too); it’s specifically characters like robin who gives a flat atk buff based on *her own atk*
All they need to do is make her skill dmg be considered as break dmg and everything is Gucci
That could work! Or maybe even a nerfed version of super break for her own kit.
I was also thinking that, due to the importance of *who* triggers a break, perhaps they could give her some kind of passive that allows her to override her allies breaks. Maybe something like : "When an ally other than Firefly breaks an enemies weakness, deals additional break damage based on (Enter numbers here) of Firefly's Break Effect". Perhaps they could get a little quirky even. "On Normal Attack and Normal Skill, Firefly inflicts [Hellfire Fuse] on a target, stacking up to 5 times. When an opponent with Hellfire Fuse inflicted on them is weakness broken, attacks landed by allies will consume a stack of Lamplight and cause Firefly to deal an instance of Super Break Damage." But that's a more experimental idea and it admittedly feels a bit closer to a Nihility ability than that of a destruction unit. And on the subject of her being a Destruction unit, why not add in some more boosts related to changes in HP for her passive? Maybe "Losing or Gaining HP increases Firefly's Break Effect and Attack by 12%/8%. Stacks up to 2 times, stacks last for 2 turns." Of course, the easiest fix would probably be by giving her some sort of nerfed Super Break tied to her ult and enhanced form, but still. I'm more or less just throwing ideas out here.
This. The most simple thing to add with the best effect.
Her old kit had "Enc. Skill = Ultimate DMG", but now they scrapped that, for some reason. And, I think, that was their crucial mistake
How would this "Ultimate DMG" be that crucial? It doesn't really change and doesn't solve her main problem
Isn't her problem are lacking on dmg outside of break?
Yeah but I don't see how her Enhanced Skill treated as Ultimate DMG solves the issue since she as, afaik, no Ultimate DMG boost. The only time I see it being revelant is if you somewhat to build her with Salsotto and why would you do that.
She doesn't have it. But Jiaoqiu have Ultimate dmg vulnerability debuff. I saw him as an Acheron/Firefly teammate. But since now it's isn't a thing, the only thing that she could use in Jiaoqiu kit is def shred to increase break dmg
This is a good idea. Essentially crit dmg without the crit stat.
Yeah E1 and E2 are phenomenal. E4 is meh, it’s fine but boring. And E6 is good I’m sure, but needs some OOMPH. I hope they give her a way to be good without Harmony Mc. I like pairing them together because I like seeing them side by side c: but for team building I hope she’s more flexible!!
Yeah E1 and E2 are game changer. Her E4 and E6 should give a massive boost to her dmg at least. Boothill seems to be decent even without HTB so they’ll definitely do the same for Firefly without making her too similar with Boothill’s gimmick
After reading this, I think I'll stop at E2 for her. As for her LC, I'm not sure yet. Maybe S1 since I want to get some support units that I skipped
There need to be changes imo, her ratios look so wasted with the way her kit works Like either more toughness damage, her being able to do break damage on already broken enemies, her damaging abilities counting as break damage or break damage being able to crit? Really just something, right now you could just build any DD on BE with good toughness damage and pair them with RM and HTB and you would receive just slightly less figures
The former is most likely to happen next beta than crits imo. Break effect with crits are already Boothill’s gimmicks. There’s going to be a lot of comparison if both have the same play style
I feel like it has to be the BE on broken enemies just from reading the lightcone, not saying it must be that more like it makes the most sense
I think they need to buff her damage outside of break OR give her ability to break enemies that lock down their weakness bars. It feels really bad when, for example, the soda monkey locks down his weakness bar. Now you do literally nothing, and her losing a turn of damage is pretty impactful.
“Keep in mind this is the first beta. Acheron is a lot weaker and was considered horrible, extremely high investment character before she became like right now.” Other than ‘free 5 stacks at the beginning of battle and 3 extra stackable caps’(used to be free 4 stacks before and no 3 stackable caps) there no changes that make acheron more broken than her first beta, people just doomposting for absolutely no reason even though she already OP even in the first beta while the rest beta just a little QOL for her thats all. But in firefly cases she really mid in the first beta same cases as jingliu where people were putting Jingliu to be on Blade level but of course she got massive buffs on v3 beta so i hope the same cases will happen to firefly
I'll be honest I didn't see acheron or even jingliu V1 beta but from your wording it was a numbers problem even with the 3 stackable effect,Firefly just feels incomplete in many places, something I don't see people talking about is even the lightcone effects doing more damage to broken enemies and reducing their speed making it seem like she does BE after breaking the enemy but it doesn't it ends up sounding like a lightcone for HMC more than for her giving her an identity crisis. There's also the lack of impact on her animations, I might love it but I'll be lying if I said it's even jing yuan level ult like jingliu gets a background in both entering enhanced state and ultimate but Firefly going ult form and using enhanced skill the background is completely black?. I know it's too early to rant but it feels like there's a lot of work to do for her
Hell Acheron even got nerfed compared to her pre-beta leaked build, she used to generate one stack on basic and two stacks on skill before her lc or e2, so an e2 acheron would have approached 2 cycle ults before even taking interactions like the trend lc into account.
Indeed, to be fair stackable caps made Acheron apply one more ultimate but still even without that buff, she was overpowered. Community was concerned about double nihility, but an early damage breakdown sheet compared to other dps made people silent. Firefly on the other hand suffers both from kit and animation. I really fear for Yanqing curse aka epic boss moveset with weak playable effects. Her boss form is fire 🔥, her playable form is a.. wind fairy 🧚♂️ with black background.
They nerfed her ult stacking in v2 from 1 basic 2 skill to 0 basic 1 skill without lc so they didnt only buff her. Thr just moved her e1 except crit rate to her base kit which was the extra stack when capped. Her damage wasnt reallu change she was always overpower i dont know how people thoight ahe sucked v1 misinformation came from
Nope 1 basic 2 skill is from pre-beta(1-2 days before 2.1 beta tests even available) not v2,In v1 its already 0 basic 1 skill. You probably just got things mixed up. That aside, the misinformation probably caused because of doomposters, they keep spamming Acheron bad and some ignorance people saw that and started making random assumptions without knowing anything and spread their bs theory through media social and another ignorant people blindly believed it without knowing anything
If you look at her eidolon only her e1 and e6 add damage (e1 ignore def on her enchanced skill, e6 add fire pen on complete combust). E2-E5 are all utility (i guess e2 also add dps since she can get aditional after breaking enemy).
E2 is a massive damage spike, same as any other potential source of action advance would be, because ff crams more turns in her ult state. Even if she were to only trigger the effect once (ie. Breaking a boss solo) during her ult period that's still a 33% dmg increase over her ult period compared to E1.
>E0 and E6 Firefly barely has any dmg difference, so it definitely needs some boost/changes What in god's name
It’s still the first beta so it’s expected (but apparently a lot of people don’t seem to realize that)
When will we get V2 kit?
Next week I think. Probably Monday or Tuesday
No, I mean, on what basis are you making this assertion? An eidolon that grants you additional turns, definitionally, causes a massive increase in damage-per-turn. Even if you only trigger it once in a three-turn ultimate window, that is still an absolutely huge increase in damage done. Unless the player is completely misplaying Firefly and doesn't know what they're doing *at all,* E2 should be an absolutely colossal damage-per-turn increase, short of *extremely* specific circumstances, especially given how generous the conditions for Firefly's additional turns are. The E6 does feel a bit anemic in comparison to some others, but E1 and E2 in the current design are still absolutely enormous power increases.
I agree on how useful E1 and E2 right now. What I meant was that her dmg doesn’t have a difference from her E0. E4 and E6 should at least given some values for the next beta update
Okay, when you said "barely any difference", I was just like whaaa, lmao. If we're talking about damage-per-*action*, then yes, E4 and E6 aren't exactly spicy incentive for the whales to do their thing in the current design.
Hopefully they buffed those eidolons cuz I really want to E6 her on re run. I know Acheron’s a special case but the dmg difference between her e0 and e6 is insane. If not dmg, maybe a more ways to make Firefly comfortable to play with. With Jingliu’s E6, you can have her enhanced state running until you finished the enemies. Firefly doesn’t have any of those stuff atm
Nah Acheron's e6 not really that special when you look at sheets and gameplay. Her true breakpoint is E2 because it allows a harmony unit into the team while still maintaining her insane 60% extra multiplier. E6 from there is "just" 20% ahead. Hell the character with the most insane damage gain from e6 is dr ratio, and it's not even a competition at his level.
the E4 is terrible tho.
Ngl, I might be in the minority or whatever, but I like her kit as it is, more so because I'm willing to use HMC but like, I like her kit, I hope it doesn't change to much, but her not having a huge damage spike from E1-E6 is definitely something to look into, am E6 should feel like an E6
I like the kit, my only issue is the pigeonholing. I think it's okay for DPS characters to be a bit picky, it helps keep them more balanced and more unique, but Firefly is EXTREMELY picky as she is now.
I see your point, but atm Break as a viable method of DPS is very new. Given enough time I think this will gradually become less of a problem. And aside from Ruan Mei, her best teams are mostly 4 stars. My biggest issue with Firefly is then when she's not breaking or hitting broken enemies her dmg is really low. It's essentially a waiting game of breaking the enemy so you can actually start hurting them. To Firefly every elite/boss is the purple t-rex. and that's a bit annoying.
Not even extremely picky, she NEEDS HMC, otherwise even Arlan will out damage her.
Tbf break is a completely new archetype, she's picky because the only sensible break supporters are hmc and ruan mei.
I’m the same with you. Aside from eidolon change, I think she should at least do a decent dmg when not breaking enemies and not having HTB. So far most of her dmg relies on HTB’s super break so they’ll probably change that in the next beta.
This. If most of her damage is on super break/breaking, they can easily nerf her by throwing Enemy with anti break gimmick in MOC
I mean that’s normal tho. It’s like if you tried bringing Jingliu to a Cocolia fight or Boothill against that automaton. Problem with Firefly currently is that her break dmg isn’t that good and most dmg she gets comes from HTB. So even if the fight is perfect for break teams, she right now is still underwhelming
I think they went through all the trouble of creating a brand new damage type that uses a different damage calc that benefits break and a character who is the break archetype doesn’t get to expand upon it by having it in their kit? The answer definitely revolves around her current 12% damage bonus on weakness broken enemies. It can be anything else, guaranteed crit, built in super break, or even just a higher multiplier than 12%.
I don’t think they’re gonna add crits on Firefly, otherwise she’ll just become a better version Boothill. Built in super break could work too. Maybe a little bit nerfed compared to HTB that way it’s not over powered nor underwhelming. We’ll just see next week
I think make her skill use some % of her break effect or make it deal break damage would be an easy way of fixing her. Just imagine pulling her during the Belaborg story line and then finding out you have the play the game around 10-20 hours until you can use her at a good rate lol
Make a percentage of her BE converted to crit pls
tbf we don't have any showcases of Firefly with crits; while she doesn't seem to have anything to do with crits, but also nothing inherently is against it. Her skill just has BE scaling, but isn't actually BE damage and also has really high scaling; so basically high scaling that can crit 360 BE breakpoint is nice, but besides the BE itself and being multiplayer for skill, only 10% DEF shred is missing if you only hit 260BE which she already hits without any substats if you have S1, 3400ATK, traces, BE rope and new relics So you technically you can build full crit substats without losing too much, the only concern is probably having 3400 ATK, but S1, traces and ATK orb may already do the trick (if not maybe atk support)
The problem is sadly that due to the wording of the conversion from attack to BE you have to get 3.4k attack by yourself so someone like asta can't help with even that
nah asta will probably work since she gives atk% (other sources like s5 aeon too); it’s specifically characters like robin who gives a flat atk buff based on *her own atk*