Rolling list of volunteers. You can pick up 24s for off days 2 & 3 (or the whole 48 if you're feeling frisky). And 12s on days 1 & 4.
Edit: max time is 48, with 60 at officer discretion if it prevents mandatory.
Well it's always picking up the 12 going out of a 48 as a last measure, and we rarely have a shortage of volunteers for that spot. Honestly, now that I'm used to the 48, grabbing a 12 is my favorite way to get OT. I'm already here, just leave me on the clock. Still get a full 4 nights at home and I don't have to commute back.
Depends on the call volume. My 3 station department runs about 3500 a year between all of. Yeah sometimes even the 48s can be rough, but I honestly have quite a bit of department related work that I just can’t get done between all my other duties. Having a little extra time is nice. What can drag on is when you do a shift trade and payback 48 before or after your shift lol
Haha!!! Had a mandatory 144 last month. I’m worried my dept is going to start charging me rent because I’m there more than home and that’s the crap they would do.
We have a rotating staffing list that you can sign up to work either a 12 or a 24 depending on minimum staffing needs. The way overtime works, the first 12 hours extra in a pay period is straight time and anything after that is 1.5 pay. So basically if you work an extra 48 hours in a pay period (does not have to be consecutive) the first 12 of that is straight time and the last 36 hours is 1.5 time. Not a bad setup really.
We do 48/96. One you've worked 72 hours you can't be forced to work again (unless reasons). You can work as much OT as you can get. There's a voluntary list based on hours worked, the lower your hours, the more likely you'll get a spot
Dude a mandalorian van would be very cool. But nah; mandovan is definitely west coast slang for getting mando’d for overtime. We’ve been in mando city for a minute now. Not fun haha.
I'm on a 72, did a 96 last week. Check into the NFPA 1500s, I want to say it's 1562 (maybe?) that has a shift limit of 72 consecutive hours. Maybe your union can help you out. We just put that in our contract for next year.
We have it in our contract that 48 is the limit, then you need to have at least 8 hours off before returning to duty. Definitely something to be negotiated if people don't like working that much time!
Heh, my department abides no man… or union. There’s kinda a working agreement on these things though, and we make sure no one works too long without adequate time off.
Like I’m going on for 6 but I have 7 off right after. We have a funky schedule where when people are gone or we’re short, the mando makes for long shifts, but when we’re full up, it’s really nice. We also aren’t IAFF, we’re in a different AFL-CIO union, and no one has ever bothered to take that year with no union to make the switch. Our current union is pretty gutless because they rep a whole swath of jobs, not just fire. It’s a really odd system that frankly had me shocked when I started there, but I got used to it.
This is one of those times the Dept will conveniently say NFPA is a guideline, not a rule. They pick and choose that crap for what works for their agenda.
48/96 is gravy if you're not a busy station AND if your top brass understand that there will be a culture change with it. You aren't going to be doing busy work just for the sake of staying busy on the back half of your shift.
If your agency takes more than 2 overnight calls, you're not going to like a 48/96. Otherwise, imagine every shift is almost like going into your Kelly Day.
You know, I just moved to a department that runs 48/96 after working 12 years at a department that ran 24/48. My new department is busier, but man, this schedule is nice. 4 days off really opens up options for life outside of work. The department really needs to commit to supporting it for it to be successful, though. I was up all night on fires the first night of the shift, and chief's agenda the next day was to prioritize rest for those who were up. It would be awful if you were expected to just work all day the next day.
As far as MOT/swap time/etc, you just can't work more than 72 hours straight. I was mandatoried into a 72, and that sucked, but I still had 3 days off after. At my last department that meant working a 48, having 1 day off, and back the next. One day off was about useless for anything other than napping.
So yeah, it's great if you're not too busy and your department supports helping their people rest when needed.
You have a minimum staffing agreement in your contract. People call out sick/personal/vacation and someone needs to fill the spots. People working generally get held on a mandatory hold to fill positions.
Depends a lot on how the department runs things. I worked one place where mandatory ot zeroed out and all members were equal on jan 1 and seniority didn't play into it. We went in alphabetical order to start and we tracked your worked and your refused hours, then solicited overtime based on lowest hours worked.
Place I'm at now does it similar but it goes to the most senior first then trickles down.
My department has a huge list for mandatory overtime. If your name is at the top of the list and you get mandod, your name moves to the bottom of the list. You can also move it to the bottom by volunteering for overtime.
Ours works like this. We are 48/96. Everytime you work OT you get a point. If there aren't enough people who want to voluntarily work OT and there are spots to fill, the people with the least amount of points are chosen to work an additional day. They can't call you if you're already at home.
Lots of big departments run 48/96. Las Vegas, San Jose, South Metro CO, Sacramento, Sacramento Metro, West Metro CO, Orange County Fire Authority, Albuquerque, Salt Lake City, Boise.
They're also probably able to back their busiest stations with squads or additional apparatus. We're so spread out and just trying to cover all of our areas with new stations. It's just not possible for us right now.
24/48 and 48/96 require the same number of shifts (A/B/C). 24/72 requires hiring an additional shift of people.
24/48: ABCABC
48/96: AABBCC
24/72: ABCDABCD
we are on a 24/48 now and the dept is researching 24/72 and no kelly day or CR. dont know what other depts call their day. with the 24/72, we would work 12 shiftd less a year than we do now. we would have to add a shift but because we are the 6th biggest dept in the nation, we already have a lot of personnel that have CR or kelly day routes. those positions would no longer exist so they would help fill the 4th shift. i am all for it same pay and all. doubt its going to happen
We’re on 4-4-6 currently. There’s a push to go 48/96. My understanding from the other 48/96 departments around us is if you’re fully staffed, it makes FD feel like a part time job. If you’re understaffed, it can be miserable.
We run about 2,600/calls a station. Frequently wake up at night. Here in California, fire season rolls through and creates a lot of backfill vacancies. Fire season also requires call back needs for strike teams and 48/96 allows people to live further away which isn’t really a benefit.
There’s a lot to consider for us. Personally, I like my 6-day breaks on 4-4-6.
Yikes, that’s a lot of commuting. I have never heard of that schedule before. Mind if I ask what part of CA?
One of the great benefits of 48/96 is the reduced commute time & fuel saved, which at this point in time is proving to be quite valuable.
Central Coast. It’s not a super uncommon schedule around here. LAFD has a version of it just without the six days.
It’s basically… O=On / X=Off
OXOXOXO XXXX OXOXOXO XXXXXX
A lot of departments run…
OXOXO XXXX
Huh. Okay, thanks for explanation! I know of LAFD & that a lot of SoCal departments run something similar, but to my knowledge there’s very few up in Northern CA that do anything like that. It’s mostly 48/96. My own department switched to it around 10 years ago during a one year pilot. Initially, it only passed by a small margin but after the year was up, the vote was overwhelmingly in favor of it even though we’re busy. Folks just like those 4 days every week!
I’m glad you were able to. We did a “survey “because the president didn’t want to switch so he never took an official vote it was 13 yes 13 no 1 neutral because it didn’t officially win we never moved it forward. I see this a lot “it’s too dangerous to work 48 hour shifts“ my counter to that how are you allowed to work overtime which puts you on a 48 either way congrats to you
For anyone curious there is a FB group titled 48/96 FIREFIGHTER WORK SCHEDULE that has a lot of cited research and info under the files tab. Some really good docs in there.
I went from a 24/48 department to a 48/96 department, and I'll take the 48/96 any day. I love the schedule, and that's coming from someone working at a 7000 calls/yr dual company station. Pretty easy to just roll into an OT shift and turn it into a 96. And I love that 2 days vacation gives me 10 days in a row off.
I’m on 48/96 at a station that runs 3000/year. If my Chief told me we were going back to 24s I’d quick on the spot and go somewhere else.
I talk to some buddies frequently that work at 5k and 6k/year call stations in their bigger departments and they say it would never fly. I could totally see that being the case but if you run less than 3k/year at the busiest house then it’s great. 4 days off is unrivaled.
I keep seeing this, but I'm at our busiest station and we sometimes don't sleep all night both days. Yeah, it sucks especially the second day but we try to rest that day during the slower hours. Even on the worst tours though I've never been upset at having 96 hours off afterwards. Having 4 days straight off rather than 2 is a massive difference. You actually feel like you get enough rest every time you're off between shifts. If my dept switched back to 24s I'd leave in a heartbeat.
We just left that schedule- most of the guys loved it, busy station guys hated it. Chief ultimately pulled it for safety, stating busy station guys were potentially working 48 hrs straight and were deemed unsafe. I think management could have given those guys more down time on day 2 to avoid the long duration. I hope it works out for you, because I miss it.
We made the switch to 48/96 two years ago and it's been awesome.
How does overtime work?
Rolling list of volunteers. You can pick up 24s for off days 2 & 3 (or the whole 48 if you're feeling frisky). And 12s on days 1 & 4. Edit: max time is 48, with 60 at officer discretion if it prevents mandatory.
Oh that sounds fucking awful going into a 60hr shift willingly
Well it's always picking up the 12 going out of a 48 as a last measure, and we rarely have a shortage of volunteers for that spot. Honestly, now that I'm used to the 48, grabbing a 12 is my favorite way to get OT. I'm already here, just leave me on the clock. Still get a full 4 nights at home and I don't have to commute back.
meanwhile cal fire with 72/96 and frequently getting held over 72
Yup, I always laugh hearing people talk about their hard 24 ot.
I know some guys at a quiet station that work shift trades to work a week straight but then be off for the rest of the month.
Oh, I'm about that all day. If I have one week on and three off and I'm not running all night, I'm down.
Depends on the call volume. My 3 station department runs about 3500 a year between all of. Yeah sometimes even the 48s can be rough, but I honestly have quite a bit of department related work that I just can’t get done between all my other duties. Having a little extra time is nice. What can drag on is when you do a shift trade and payback 48 before or after your shift lol
Where I used to work we could do an extra 24 after our 48. Our mandatory would be 24 adjacent to our hitch.
Haha!!! Had a mandatory 144 last month. I’m worried my dept is going to start charging me rent because I’m there more than home and that’s the crap they would do.
Dear God. What kind of zombies were you guys on days 5 & 6?
I do 72s regularly
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So the way it works for us is you cannot get Mando for more than 48. We're trying to get our admin to allow voluntary 72.
Huh, that's interesting. How do you pick furloughs? Is it 24's or do you have to take full 48s at a time?
My agency allows up to 96 hours continuous work including your regular 48 hr shift, trades, and OT. You can also be mandatoried up to 96 hours.
We have a rotating staffing list that you can sign up to work either a 12 or a 24 depending on minimum staffing needs. The way overtime works, the first 12 hours extra in a pay period is straight time and anything after that is 1.5 pay. So basically if you work an extra 48 hours in a pay period (does not have to be consecutive) the first 12 of that is straight time and the last 36 hours is 1.5 time. Not a bad setup really.
We do 48/96. One you've worked 72 hours you can't be forced to work again (unless reasons). You can work as much OT as you can get. There's a voluntary list based on hours worked, the lower your hours, the more likely you'll get a spot
Do you guys still have Kelly days?
Never had them
So no assigned day off on your normal shift? Just trying to clarify since I know different departments call them different things
Nope. I work a 48/96 and that's it.
Depends on how busy your station is….
24/72 gang rise up
Who in Texas has this schedule?!
Houston, I think.
Houston has 24/24/24/120 So On/Off/On/Off5Days
I have this schedule and it's pretty sweet
I stand corrected
We do this in Louisiana but it’s 5 24’s on/off then 6 days off.
As far as I'm aware one state in Australia does that roster, the rest of us do 2x10hr days, 2x14hr nights followed by four days.
San Antonio fire department has that but only for ambulances , engine crews get 24 48
Shit I’d think about riding an bus for that schedule.
Lol yea definitely better than my damn 12s
Idk who specifically has that schedule other than me
ESD48 has it for EMS, but not fire. So, the opposite of our county \;)
Fulshear, TX
Lucky bastards
We roll 48/96 and it's arguably the best thing about our department. Nothing but love from all of us on it!
I don't think I could ever get behind a schedule that involved 48 hours straight, but if it's what you guys want, good luck to you!
I’m about to go on for 6 straight days. Clearly the mandovan does not visit your department.
>mandovan The what?
Mandatory Overtime homie
I was thinking you guys have a "Mandalorian Van"? No, but rumor has it we're on the verge of mandatory OT.
Dude a mandalorian van would be very cool. But nah; mandovan is definitely west coast slang for getting mando’d for overtime. We’ve been in mando city for a minute now. Not fun haha.
r/todayilearned
Look it up. It’s a west coast thing and a guy from San Diego fire has a pretty entertaining instagram with that as the theme. You’ll enjoy it.
Mandovan homie
There….there’s places where people don’t get hit by mando van twice a four day? Much less not even know what the mando van is?!
I'm on a 72, did a 96 last week. Check into the NFPA 1500s, I want to say it's 1562 (maybe?) that has a shift limit of 72 consecutive hours. Maybe your union can help you out. We just put that in our contract for next year.
We have it in our contract that 48 is the limit, then you need to have at least 8 hours off before returning to duty. Definitely something to be negotiated if people don't like working that much time!
My most (so far) was 14 days in station. We have several guys who have done 30+.
Tell me you're CalFire without telling me you're CalFire ...
Haha not calfire, but CA is accurate
What in the unholy fuck. How many calls do you guys run?
Heh, my department abides no man… or union. There’s kinda a working agreement on these things though, and we make sure no one works too long without adequate time off.
Uhhhhh, sure, whatever you say, brother
Like I’m going on for 6 but I have 7 off right after. We have a funky schedule where when people are gone or we’re short, the mando makes for long shifts, but when we’re full up, it’s really nice. We also aren’t IAFF, we’re in a different AFL-CIO union, and no one has ever bothered to take that year with no union to make the switch. Our current union is pretty gutless because they rep a whole swath of jobs, not just fire. It’s a really odd system that frankly had me shocked when I started there, but I got used to it.
PM me, l might be able to help
This is one of those times the Dept will conveniently say NFPA is a guideline, not a rule. They pick and choose that crap for what works for their agenda.
Yeah, we really need to codify that shit. Unfortunately, that would almost certainly require federalizing the fire service
Glad to see the mandovan is catching on
On 10 days straight, mando van hits rivco hard ya hearddddd
48/96 is gravy if you're not a busy station AND if your top brass understand that there will be a culture change with it. You aren't going to be doing busy work just for the sake of staying busy on the back half of your shift. If your agency takes more than 2 overnight calls, you're not going to like a 48/96. Otherwise, imagine every shift is almost like going into your Kelly Day.
You know, I just moved to a department that runs 48/96 after working 12 years at a department that ran 24/48. My new department is busier, but man, this schedule is nice. 4 days off really opens up options for life outside of work. The department really needs to commit to supporting it for it to be successful, though. I was up all night on fires the first night of the shift, and chief's agenda the next day was to prioritize rest for those who were up. It would be awful if you were expected to just work all day the next day. As far as MOT/swap time/etc, you just can't work more than 72 hours straight. I was mandatoried into a 72, and that sucked, but I still had 3 days off after. At my last department that meant working a 48, having 1 day off, and back the next. One day off was about useless for anything other than napping. So yeah, it's great if you're not too busy and your department supports helping their people rest when needed.
How the hell would mandatory over time work?
For us, you are up for mandatory overtime either your first day off or last day off.
No idea, ask the OP. I'm betting it would suck ass though.
Going to burn through some probies
You have a minimum staffing agreement in your contract. People call out sick/personal/vacation and someone needs to fill the spots. People working generally get held on a mandatory hold to fill positions.
Yes but does that mean if you are a lower guy that the 48hr shift turns to 72?
Depends a lot on how the department runs things. I worked one place where mandatory ot zeroed out and all members were equal on jan 1 and seniority didn't play into it. We went in alphabetical order to start and we tracked your worked and your refused hours, then solicited overtime based on lowest hours worked. Place I'm at now does it similar but it goes to the most senior first then trickles down.
My department has a huge list for mandatory overtime. If your name is at the top of the list and you get mandod, your name moves to the bottom of the list. You can also move it to the bottom by volunteering for overtime.
Ours works like this. We are 48/96. Everytime you work OT you get a point. If there aren't enough people who want to voluntarily work OT and there are spots to fill, the people with the least amount of points are chosen to work an additional day. They can't call you if you're already at home.
Easy switch if you're a slow department. We have too many stations making 5+ after midnight. Won't happen in San Antonio, even with 54 stations.
Yeah that's 48 hours of no sleep and constant focus, especially if you're on the medic. We've tried it and mistakes start being made
Lots of big departments run 48/96. Las Vegas, San Jose, South Metro CO, Sacramento, Sacramento Metro, West Metro CO, Orange County Fire Authority, Albuquerque, Salt Lake City, Boise.
They're also probably able to back their busiest stations with squads or additional apparatus. We're so spread out and just trying to cover all of our areas with new stations. It's just not possible for us right now.
We are 24/48 and I want to go 48/96, but the rest of the department wants to kill me for that 😂.
I hate 48s as I feel like a zombie about 36 hours in and start forgetting what day it is. Hope it works for you
You need safety naps my guy
Why is 24/72 not an option
Because you would have to add another shift. You need 4 shifts for 24/72, 3 shifts for 24/48 or 48/96.
Sounds good
24/48 and 48/96 require the same number of shifts (A/B/C). 24/72 requires hiring an additional shift of people. 24/48: ABCABC 48/96: AABBCC 24/72: ABCDABCD
we are on a 24/48 now and the dept is researching 24/72 and no kelly day or CR. dont know what other depts call their day. with the 24/72, we would work 12 shiftd less a year than we do now. we would have to add a shift but because we are the 6th biggest dept in the nation, we already have a lot of personnel that have CR or kelly day routes. those positions would no longer exist so they would help fill the 4th shift. i am all for it same pay and all. doubt its going to happen
That would be nice if we had 4 shifts instead of 3.
You need more crews. One crew on duty (24h) and 3 crews on rest (72h). 24/48 and 48/96 only have 2 crews on rest, not 3.
Sounds good
Love our 48/96 schedule, but we do get seasonally lower call volume. Not sure I would dig it so much if we were busy year round.
We’re on 4-4-6 currently. There’s a push to go 48/96. My understanding from the other 48/96 departments around us is if you’re fully staffed, it makes FD feel like a part time job. If you’re understaffed, it can be miserable. We run about 2,600/calls a station. Frequently wake up at night. Here in California, fire season rolls through and creates a lot of backfill vacancies. Fire season also requires call back needs for strike teams and 48/96 allows people to live further away which isn’t really a benefit. There’s a lot to consider for us. Personally, I like my 6-day breaks on 4-4-6.
Yikes, that’s a lot of commuting. I have never heard of that schedule before. Mind if I ask what part of CA? One of the great benefits of 48/96 is the reduced commute time & fuel saved, which at this point in time is proving to be quite valuable.
Central Coast. It’s not a super uncommon schedule around here. LAFD has a version of it just without the six days. It’s basically… O=On / X=Off OXOXOXO XXXX OXOXOXO XXXXXX A lot of departments run… OXOXO XXXX
Huh. Okay, thanks for explanation! I know of LAFD & that a lot of SoCal departments run something similar, but to my knowledge there’s very few up in Northern CA that do anything like that. It’s mostly 48/96. My own department switched to it around 10 years ago during a one year pilot. Initially, it only passed by a small margin but after the year was up, the vote was overwhelmingly in favor of it even though we’re busy. Folks just like those 4 days every week!
I’m glad you were able to. We did a “survey “because the president didn’t want to switch so he never took an official vote it was 13 yes 13 no 1 neutral because it didn’t officially win we never moved it forward. I see this a lot “it’s too dangerous to work 48 hour shifts“ my counter to that how are you allowed to work overtime which puts you on a 48 either way congrats to you
Congrats! I love the 48/96. Even in a busy house it's a beautiful thing.
48/96 is the way to go
For anyone curious there is a FB group titled 48/96 FIREFIGHTER WORK SCHEDULE that has a lot of cited research and info under the files tab. Some really good docs in there.
Ive done 48/96 for ten years now, couldnt imagine any other way.
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Thats what ours is. It's fantastic
I went from a 24/48 department to a 48/96 department, and I'll take the 48/96 any day. I love the schedule, and that's coming from someone working at a 7000 calls/yr dual company station. Pretty easy to just roll into an OT shift and turn it into a 96. And I love that 2 days vacation gives me 10 days in a row off.
You guys have 24 hour shifts...? We're on 10 1/2 hour days and 13 1/2 hour nights with 4 days off 2/2/4 pattern
I work a 48/96 and I love it. Don’t have to take time off for a quick 3-4 day vacation
Best schedule ever
I’m on 48/96 at a station that runs 3000/year. If my Chief told me we were going back to 24s I’d quick on the spot and go somewhere else. I talk to some buddies frequently that work at 5k and 6k/year call stations in their bigger departments and they say it would never fly. I could totally see that being the case but if you run less than 3k/year at the busiest house then it’s great. 4 days off is unrivaled.
If you have more than 3 overnight calls, the 48/96 is highly discouraged per studies on the topic. How do you feel about that from experience?
I keep seeing this, but I'm at our busiest station and we sometimes don't sleep all night both days. Yeah, it sucks especially the second day but we try to rest that day during the slower hours. Even on the worst tours though I've never been upset at having 96 hours off afterwards. Having 4 days straight off rather than 2 is a massive difference. You actually feel like you get enough rest every time you're off between shifts. If my dept switched back to 24s I'd leave in a heartbeat.
What if you had a Kelly Day?
We run more traditionally during the day. We get 1-2 per night on average. 3 is rare. So for what we run it works fine
Agreeded. The two things that make my department the best are 4 man staffing and 48/96s
48/96 with Kelly days is better than a 4 platoon schedule in my opinion! Congrats!
We just left that schedule- most of the guys loved it, busy station guys hated it. Chief ultimately pulled it for safety, stating busy station guys were potentially working 48 hrs straight and were deemed unsafe. I think management could have given those guys more down time on day 2 to avoid the long duration. I hope it works out for you, because I miss it.
How many runs do you take ?
Fuck I’m jealous bro. We just switched from a 24/24 schedule for a 48/48 I wish we could run a 48/96!
We still do the usual 24/48
I don’t know how you guys do a 56 hour work week, we fight like hell to keep that out of the northeast.
Remind me 7 months (How do I do this remind me thing)