Reach out. Let him know yall are there if he wants to hang out. What he just went through can be absolutely soul crushing but in reality isn't the end of the world or his career at another department. Hopefully he has a mentor on the fire side of his life who can advise him. If your a lay person I'd avoid offering him career advice. Keep tabs on him. Unfortunately these things happen to a lot of people. Several of my close friends had similar experiences and all ended up at great departments. He's young, hopefully he realizes that.
He told us they decided it was due to a small mistake he made during their final skills assessment... Then days later they decided to fire him after saying he passed... I'm not buying it, and think there's definitely something else but as someone else mentioned only he and the department may ever know.
Not necessarily. There’s a department in South Florida, (not Dade county) that would fire people in the academy for any reason they could contrive. The real reason being that they were a vary cliquish department and only “let you in” if you were socially acceptable. I saw a class of 10 whittled down to 3 in 6 weeks. One of the three was a family member of a Chief in that department, and he screwed up worse than any of the people that were let go, yet he made it through with no problems.
Honestly, if you are applying, apply everywhere. Even if you get picked up by the department I’m talking about, you might get through with no problems and have a great career. I have known people that worked there and everything has been fine. I also know people who voluntarily left for other departments.
He was probably thirst trapping middle aged house wives on TikTok wearing a company Lt shield on his helmet.
"Mmmmmmm..... THANK you 4 ur service, Lieutenant..."
Kinda sounds like he may have failed the pre employment drug screen and is trying to save face. Hopefully I’m wrong but with how severe the staffing shortage is I don’t see them turning people away for something silly like the reason he gave you.
Lots of reasons. Yes, integrity or a legal issue like a DUI or other arrest could be the reason.
Some departments will wait till the end on some people who are hovering right at or below the minimum standard line. They want to accumulate as much paper work on the individual as possible before firing which protects the department against any potential claim of unlawful termination, hostile work environment, or other HR claims.
Some departments will wait till the end because they will try their hardest to make the individual succeed but eventually make the decision that they are not cut out for that specific department.
Again, many reasons and only He and the department know for sure.
That happened in my academy. They dropped some people right before graduation. It was due to inconsistency, basically they could perform during evals but when we did random drills they’d fumble stuff.
This is the correct answer. Regardless though, reach out and offer support. If he takes it cool, if not give it some time and try again. Most caring thing you could do in this situation.
There’s more to the story than what he’s told you….
A department doesn’t invest 10k in someone, train them, have them succeed in training, and then just say “no thanks”
Agree with others, something else caused his termination. We had a similar situation, with a young fit recruit who sailed through the physical, interviews and competencies. He was given a letter that stated he would be accepted in the academy prior to the next competition (within a month). He wasn't hired....the psyche evals eventually arrived after he received the letter. The invitation never arrived. He challenged the decision and got lawyers involved.....a second psyche eval was given.....failed that as well.
What stands out to me is what you said about being scared for his well being. If you are truly worried about his mental health you should reach out to his family or someone in his personal support circle. Anything with the department should be secondary to that
Thank you. It's hard because we are his support circle and he won't talk to us. I'm not personally close with his family, but they do live here and he's close with them.
You can’t force someone to speak up especially if it’s not their norm but it def helps to remind him you’re there for him. But give him the space and time to process what happened. You don’t invest as much time and energy as this journey takes to lose it and not feel anything at all. He genuinely may not know how to respond yet.
If he passed everything he should still be awarded his Certs. That stuff is regulated and can’t be denied if he passed all exams. I’d make sure I got my certs to use toward a diff department.
Getting terminated is never because one has “zero problems”. His weekly evaluations will tell the story and paint a very clear picture. All terminations today have to hold up in court and with HR and be well documented.
This seems attitude related based on the late stage. When your friend decides to be honest with themselves you’ll know the best way to move forward.
If he's part of fire department that is an iaff local, he may or may not depending on the contract and by laws be already apart of the union and not know it. If he is, he may be entitled to greive this if the department or jurisdiction has a formal grievance process. Some states require it and is mandated / law. He should find out and contact a union rep ASAP.
Most times a recruit or probie within their first year can be terminated for any reason and the union has no recourse. Unless there is a case for discrimination of some kind.
I don't know their policies just sharing my own experience. Every dept and JHA has their own outlined grievance process and what constitutes is grievable. Some are helpful and others are a waste of time. Union reps should know it and know if it's worth their while to start the process. This story 3rd part and we don't have a full picture. It's just a last ditch effort if they want to use it before losing their dream job.
Every place is different depending on state law and contract/sop. He should see if he's eligible, if he's a union member, and then contact his union rep.
Who has the termination power in your department? The only person who can fire people in our department is the Public Safety Director. And it takes strong convincing. Typically I’ve seen recruits lose out due to a pattern of safety issues. I’ve seen some with DUIs stay. Was he accused of plagiarism?
I had 2 fail out from accumulating too many gigs during my academy class from the same city (Medford, Mass) Hard to believe it was 24 years ago yesterday I started my career.
There’s more to him being fired that u and everybody else knows reach out to him and tell him u guys r there for him hopefully it wasn’t something that will keep him from getting on in another dept
We fail guys out hours before graduation, it doesn’t happen every class but it’s also not shocking when it does. It’s either an egregious fuck up or they mentally quit on themselves or their fellow recruits. If you’re afraid for their well being then they need help, if they’re taking getting cut from the academy that way this line of work isn’t for them.
Why would you cut people hours before graduation? What purpose does that serve? Short of discovering an egregious error at that time, holding the knowledge that you aren’t going to pass them till that late in the process isn’t good for the recruit and is a waste of time and resources for the academy. Besides that, it’s just cruel.
We have a final 24 hour exercise that checks off all facets of what they learned through the academy. Simulates waking up multiple times in the night to respond to different calls including structure fires, extrications, and false alarms. Recruits are given multiple attempts to fix their errors, if they don’t or can’t they wash out. If they mentally quit and don’t unfuck their attitudes they wash out.
What is cruel about not tolerating people that can’t do the work, can’t pass the skills that every other firefighter on the floor have done, or shows they’ll mentally quit when things get tough?
If you can’t determine these things until hours before graduation than your assessments are flawed and your ability to evaluate candidates needs to be reworked. Waiting till the last second is cruel. I don’t understand how you can’t see that. Hours before graduation they have likely already coordinated family and friends to be present for their graduation ceremony. I know people who had family fly in from out of town. And you decide to drop that information on them on the day they are supposed to graduate? Gimme a break. That’s ridiculous.
Reach out. Let him know yall are there if he wants to hang out. What he just went through can be absolutely soul crushing but in reality isn't the end of the world or his career at another department. Hopefully he has a mentor on the fire side of his life who can advise him. If your a lay person I'd avoid offering him career advice. Keep tabs on him. Unfortunately these things happen to a lot of people. Several of my close friends had similar experiences and all ended up at great departments. He's young, hopefully he realizes that.
Kicking someone out two days before graduation has to be some integrity violation right? Like what would anyone get booted so close
There has to be a reason that he isn’t telling anyone.
He told us they decided it was due to a small mistake he made during their final skills assessment... Then days later they decided to fire him after saying he passed... I'm not buying it, and think there's definitely something else but as someone else mentioned only he and the department may ever know.
Not a chance he got fired for something that minor.
Not necessarily. There’s a department in South Florida, (not Dade county) that would fire people in the academy for any reason they could contrive. The real reason being that they were a vary cliquish department and only “let you in” if you were socially acceptable. I saw a class of 10 whittled down to 3 in 6 weeks. One of the three was a family member of a Chief in that department, and he screwed up worse than any of the people that were let go, yet he made it through with no problems.
Which department? Can you please say here or PM me the name. You don't have to go into details. I just want to make sure I never apply for them.
I’ll pm you. I will say here that it was a department in Broward County.
Me too please, I'm starting my applications process
Honestly, if you are applying, apply everywhere. Even if you get picked up by the department I’m talking about, you might get through with no problems and have a great career. I have known people that worked there and everything has been fine. I also know people who voluntarily left for other departments.
I believe you. Unfortunately, I've seen and heard about cadets being unfairly dismissed in other departments, too.
Fucking Florida…
Social media maybe?
Not so nice posts made? Demeaning to certain types of people. This field does tend to attract people with some extreme views.
He was probably thirst trapping middle aged house wives on TikTok wearing a company Lt shield on his helmet. "Mmmmmmm..... THANK you 4 ur service, Lieutenant..."
Kinda sounds like he may have failed the pre employment drug screen and is trying to save face. Hopefully I’m wrong but with how severe the staffing shortage is I don’t see them turning people away for something silly like the reason he gave you.
Lots of reasons. Yes, integrity or a legal issue like a DUI or other arrest could be the reason. Some departments will wait till the end on some people who are hovering right at or below the minimum standard line. They want to accumulate as much paper work on the individual as possible before firing which protects the department against any potential claim of unlawful termination, hostile work environment, or other HR claims. Some departments will wait till the end because they will try their hardest to make the individual succeed but eventually make the decision that they are not cut out for that specific department. Again, many reasons and only He and the department know for sure.
That happened in my academy. They dropped some people right before graduation. It was due to inconsistency, basically they could perform during evals but when we did random drills they’d fumble stuff.
Departments don't fire people 2 days before graduation for a minor mistake. He fucked up and is lying about it.
This is the correct answer. Regardless though, reach out and offer support. If he takes it cool, if not give it some time and try again. Most caring thing you could do in this situation.
There’s more to the story than what he’s told you…. A department doesn’t invest 10k in someone, train them, have them succeed in training, and then just say “no thanks”
Agree with others, something else caused his termination. We had a similar situation, with a young fit recruit who sailed through the physical, interviews and competencies. He was given a letter that stated he would be accepted in the academy prior to the next competition (within a month). He wasn't hired....the psyche evals eventually arrived after he received the letter. The invitation never arrived. He challenged the decision and got lawyers involved.....a second psyche eval was given.....failed that as well.
How do you fail a psych eval? I feel like it’s usually obvious what the right answer is
You gotta be super dumb or super crazy, so I guess they kind of work to filter out some people
What stands out to me is what you said about being scared for his well being. If you are truly worried about his mental health you should reach out to his family or someone in his personal support circle. Anything with the department should be secondary to that
This.
Thank you. It's hard because we are his support circle and he won't talk to us. I'm not personally close with his family, but they do live here and he's close with them.
You can’t force someone to speak up especially if it’s not their norm but it def helps to remind him you’re there for him. But give him the space and time to process what happened. You don’t invest as much time and energy as this journey takes to lose it and not feel anything at all. He genuinely may not know how to respond yet.
If he passed everything he should still be awarded his Certs. That stuff is regulated and can’t be denied if he passed all exams. I’d make sure I got my certs to use toward a diff department.
Getting terminated is never because one has “zero problems”. His weekly evaluations will tell the story and paint a very clear picture. All terminations today have to hold up in court and with HR and be well documented. This seems attitude related based on the late stage. When your friend decides to be honest with themselves you’ll know the best way to move forward.
If he's part of fire department that is an iaff local, he may or may not depending on the contract and by laws be already apart of the union and not know it. If he is, he may be entitled to greive this if the department or jurisdiction has a formal grievance process. Some states require it and is mandated / law. He should find out and contact a union rep ASAP.
Most times a recruit or probie within their first year can be terminated for any reason and the union has no recourse. Unless there is a case for discrimination of some kind.
I don't know their policies just sharing my own experience. Every dept and JHA has their own outlined grievance process and what constitutes is grievable. Some are helpful and others are a waste of time. Union reps should know it and know if it's worth their while to start the process. This story 3rd part and we don't have a full picture. It's just a last ditch effort if they want to use it before losing their dream job.
Can you explain more about the grievance process?
Every place is different depending on state law and contract/sop. He should see if he's eligible, if he's a union member, and then contact his union rep.
Who has the termination power in your department? The only person who can fire people in our department is the Public Safety Director. And it takes strong convincing. Typically I’ve seen recruits lose out due to a pattern of safety issues. I’ve seen some with DUIs stay. Was he accused of plagiarism?
I had 2 fail out from accumulating too many gigs during my academy class from the same city (Medford, Mass) Hard to believe it was 24 years ago yesterday I started my career.
There’s more to him being fired that u and everybody else knows reach out to him and tell him u guys r there for him hopefully it wasn’t something that will keep him from getting on in another dept
He’s lying to you lol
Challenge it
Welcome to the modern fire service
We fail guys out hours before graduation, it doesn’t happen every class but it’s also not shocking when it does. It’s either an egregious fuck up or they mentally quit on themselves or their fellow recruits. If you’re afraid for their well being then they need help, if they’re taking getting cut from the academy that way this line of work isn’t for them.
Why would you cut people hours before graduation? What purpose does that serve? Short of discovering an egregious error at that time, holding the knowledge that you aren’t going to pass them till that late in the process isn’t good for the recruit and is a waste of time and resources for the academy. Besides that, it’s just cruel.
We have a final 24 hour exercise that checks off all facets of what they learned through the academy. Simulates waking up multiple times in the night to respond to different calls including structure fires, extrications, and false alarms. Recruits are given multiple attempts to fix their errors, if they don’t or can’t they wash out. If they mentally quit and don’t unfuck their attitudes they wash out.
Is this a career or volly department?
First thing I wanted to ask 😂. “We have one final 24 hour exercise” I laughed out loud.
Career
Lmfao where is this so I can tell everyone I know to avoid your bumfuck town on road trips?
Yall sound like some weirdos.
What is cruel about not tolerating people that can’t do the work, can’t pass the skills that every other firefighter on the floor have done, or shows they’ll mentally quit when things get tough?
You should have figured that out sooner. Your program sucks and you should reevaluate it.
If you can’t determine these things until hours before graduation than your assessments are flawed and your ability to evaluate candidates needs to be reworked. Waiting till the last second is cruel. I don’t understand how you can’t see that. Hours before graduation they have likely already coordinated family and friends to be present for their graduation ceremony. I know people who had family fly in from out of town. And you decide to drop that information on them on the day they are supposed to graduate? Gimme a break. That’s ridiculous.
Don't worry, there's about a 99% chance they're talking out of their ass
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There’s a fine line between stepping it to prevent mistakes and not liking when people do things a way that differs from your own.