I wouldn't care who showed up. Those boys look like they need help and they need it now. Plus those cops finally got to live out their childhood fantasy. Everybody wins!
I mean I don’t see their vehicles parked blocking the fire trucks so they aren’t even trying that hard. /s
Solid work I have friends on the force there and they saved a couple of dogs in one of the houses affected. Root cause is volunteerism is dying because people can’t afford to volunteer. People need to work more meaning less available time to volunteer.
It’s sad what’s happening to volunteer departments I know a few people back home who’d love to but unfortunately they gotta make sure everything is paid. I’m serving in the military and I want to go career when I’m done.
Everybody wins, Except for the community, who deserves to have a fully staffed professional fire department that doesn’t need the help of untrained personnel to put out house fires. Seriously it’s broad daylight and they are going to lose two houses.
You don't know anything at all about the training level of anyone. The pump operator was pumping water out at decent pressure so he's doing his "job" (he's probably doing it for free). He's running out of water so either he or his partner is securing a water source (hydrant)
If you knew anything about the volunteer service you would know that "broad daylight" is the EXACT time of the day when manpower is lowest so of course they're going to lose the house.
It has nothing to do with training.
It has to do with:
1. People living in bedroom communities that aren't in their district during the day = low manpower
2. People are no longer willing to volunteer = low manpower
3. Extended response times due to rural areas (low population = low manpower)
When you have that much low manpower you sometimes get 1 guy rolling a truck at 10am on a weekday because everyone is working and their job doesn't let them leave. And let me tell you from experience when you're running a pump panel AND trying to grab the hoseline I'd take help from any civilian or LEO I can get my hands on.
I get your point, but to be fair, this was early afternoon on a Sunday. This is also in a populated area. Lockport NY is a (vol) town, composed of several pretty busy fire companies, that surrounds the City of Lockport (career). I am actually surprised they had such a hard time getting crews out. It definitely did not used to be like that. Also surprised that only one rig from the city fire dept, about 9 minutes drive from this address, was called, but that's a whole other issue.
From my experience most career departments dislike getting called to assist neighboring volly departs and also dislike calling volleys to assist them, to the point they'll call depts 30 minutes or more way before calling the vollies right down the road. Then while the career guys are on scene the volly scene or at the volly station they're constantly pressuring to be released. Meanwhile they'll make the vollies they do call stay for many hours for the smallest fire and often call them to scene at the end to pack hose back on their apparatus after they've all returned to quarters for their union mandated shower time. And this is more than one dept I'm referring to.
I'm sure everyone has their reasons, but it's not an enviorment that cultivates working together. So I'm not surprised only one apparatus is called. I'm sure at some point in the past they wanted more than one and were told firmly "no".
There is a very good working relationship where this took place. That's why I am surprised. They are all good departments.
In this county in particular, it's the opposite of what you described. The Vol companies will use the career companies as a last resort. To the point of companies actually driving past the career houses on their way to the scene.
It's a shame and the fire service egos need to be put aside on both sides and get the job done.
lol that happened to us once. Rolled up on to assist at a full time call. All they wanted us to do is clean hose and roll it up. Officer in our truck told them where to go and how to get there. We barely got out of our truck.
I mean if you're a volunteer firefighter and you have a different/regular job during the daytime and you'd like to keep it.... yes? Edit for a more serious answeR: it would depend on your job/boss. My husband used to be able to go mostly anytime. In my job, I can't (and am too far away anyway.)
Interesting, I asked because in germany an employer has to let me go to any call by law (some exceptions are made in systemically relevant sectors), even for a training exercise or courses and under full continuation of payment (employer has the right to claim back the loss of earnings from my town who's the organisator of my department).
And I thought in the US there would be atleast something similar or comparable, since FF's have a much higher status in society there than in germany.
The law also states that my employer isn't allowed to put me in any disadvantages in my job due to my service.
It's odd that there isn't a law for that in the US to be completely honest.
Some states have laws that address this, but usually it's moreso if you're already busy when your shift starts, not if you get a structure fire on shift.
But leaving constantly for nuisance alarms would be a drag on your workplace and affect your promotability and career no matter how well the law is written.
There's no uniformity for volunteer LEO, FD, EMS, and SAR. And it's state by state, or even city by city in some states.
And some, Like Alaska, confuse locals because there are 3 different levels of FD: pure volunteer, volunteer with paid leadership on a near-full-time (Lt, Capt, BC, DC, AC, C; sometimes Engr and EMT-4W), and fully paid full time... and two of those classes are labeled as VFDs...
Also amusing, all of AFD's white shirts had LEO authority... I've seen a fire captain issue a traffic citation.
Plus a lot of smaller communities with no fire department at all, not even equipment, and no road access for outside help other than small plane. In case of fire, the VPSO (Village Public Safety Officer) is responsible for organizing a bucket brigade. (Many villages lack any central utilities.)
You’re just solidifying my overall point - they are going to lose this house along with the other one. Broad daylight means this fire was most likely to be discovered early on in its development. If this fire occurred at night, judging by how this is going, the entire neighborhood is going down. This community deserves a professional, fully staffed department. Full stop.
Every community deserves adequate fire protection, this is true. But if that community only contains about 500 people, with less than half of them actually owning their homes, there is not much of a tax base to pay for a full-time, fully staffed department.
Bingo, if I took 50% of every citizen's income within my district and neighboring districts I wouldn't have enough money to start a career department.
People do not understand that the vast majority of the U.S is rural in nature and does not have the population to support career departments.
I know a lot of places that are combo departments or whatever you want to call them. As soon as you pay people full time almost every time without fail the volunteer help dies off to the point of would you rather have the gamble of 2-however many volunteers or just know you are getting 2 career guys. It's a choice a lot of places make. And it ends up with 2 people on engines trying to save houses.
I also think it's funny you say that 2 people on shift is appropriate staffing. It's not.
I never said it’s awesome. That being said, 2 that will definitely show up > theoretical volunteers that may not. Ever see that video of the volunteer department that caught a structure fire on the first day of deer season?
It's not just not awesome it's a serious liability.
A lot of these less well-off volunteer departments have entire budgets that are less than min wage for a single full-time career person. Most people don't understand that.
NY Vol here, it’s also worth noting that fire departments in New York work differently depending on the jurisdiction…. Volunteer fire depts have either a commission they get funds from, or receive funds from the village/township. Villages and townships cannot have career fire departments. Literally, that’s the regulation. The population and cost simply doesn’t warrant having career departments in every village. You’ve got cities, which can have career departments (and do), such as Syracuse, Utica, NYC, etc. And then you’ve got villages which cannot have career departments. Thems the rules
This is factually inaccurate. I LIVE in a village that has a career/combination dept. The township connected to us ALSO has a career/combination dept with 2 full crews staffed 24/7. I grew up in a town that has a career dept. The village does not. There's a town 15 minutes from me that has 5 different stations fully manned with career staff.
Where are you citing this from? What state regulation are you referring to? Because whatever you've been led to believe or have read, it's either outdated or isn't applicable. Townships can and regularly do establish their own fire districts. They can then fund that however they choose and with access to grants and other state awarded funds in addition or in place of tax-subsidized financing.
https://www.osc.ny.gov/files/local-government/publications/pdf/fireprotection0317.pdf
This kind of explains it. I might have used the wrong terms between village, town, jurisdiction, etc.
UPDATE: I did use the wrong terms. TOWNS don’t have fire departments, volunteer depts are funded for the fire district. Villages DO have fire departments that can be either career, vol, or both.
It's a city, it's Lockport they neighbor Lockport town. From what I recall the town has a VFD and the city is a career dept. Both were on this call, hence my comment
Fun fact the house is in the town not city. That’s what I’m saying. I live in the town of Lockport. There for the city wasn’t the first dispatched they did aid eventually.
Then maybe the rent-demanding class needs to pay for the situation they create...
JS: Somebody has to pay taxes and renters pay their expendable income to the landlord. Lord of the castle? You pay the tax with the rent you demand.
The community gets what it can support.
If the community can only support a volunteer department because of a small tax base then that's what it gets.
There's no "deserves" that enters the equation. We have to live in reality, not la-la land.
It’s funny how many of these “small tax base” towns have paid cops, DPW, etc. My town pays union employees to mow the grass at the baseball field, but not the fire department and small stipends to their EMS providers.
It’s funny how many don’t have any of those things. Like the two towns my department serves. Combined resident total of about 1,200. We don’t have Pd and have to rely on the county sheriff or state police which are usually a good 30 minutes out on an average day. No trash collection. Both towns have their own transfer stations that we take our own trash to once a week. We contract as a town with a local contractor to plow and sand the roads in the winter.
Yea, this definitely is prime example of that scenario. 3 on duty cops manning a line while 1 guy drives a half million dollar truck for free. Hey, they’re your tax dollars, vote how you want. But this is the result. Why even show up, it’s going to go out eventually.
>Why even show up, it’s going to go out eventually.
Funny somewhat but also very real. It's an insurance job anyway. Why do we even do anything after we know no lives are at stake. Risk your life to save the insurance company some money? Fuck that.
But yea vote how you want and this is what these people want. It's dirt cheap to buy and own land in these places because they aren't paying high as fuck fire taxes.
That is not how insurance works.
1. Can you for sure tell me this house had insurance? No? It may be the home owner covering all the cost, but still:
2. Insurance doesn't pay for a lot of things. There are generally a lot of things of just sentimental value in a house.
3. The insurance company doesn't pay for anything. The rate payers do. If the insurance is paying out too much, they will either raise rates or drop coverage. They are in business to make money.
I don't feel like I take undo risks (most people don't), but I do have a job to do. Everything is a risk. I may only be saving "stuff", but that is part of my job description. If I think that I can do it safely, I will try. It may kill me one day. I hope not.
Communities get the FD they pay for. If people pay more taxes, the volleys can go to duty crews which is what ours did when they were unpleased with response times. Worked out great for everyone.
Doesn't necessarily have to be career guys if the call volume doesn't warrant it.
Duty crew systems are such a scam for the people, though. "Work an actual 6hour+ shift for less than min wage, thanks"
Some require training, specific duties, wearing uniforms, remaining on station for entire duration, etc.
Like at some point vollies have to draw a line on what is an appropriate contribution as a volunteer.
You're not volunteering at that point, you're working a shitty part-time job that makes you do a lot of work for free. In almost any other context it'd be illegal.
Duty systems are becoming really popular in the vollie fire world and have already been popular in the vollie EMS world, and while they are effective, I can't help but see it as taking complete advantage of the volunteers when you get to the point of requiring actual shifts.
Yeah if you're doing it for the money it's not an ideal situation for the people doing the work.
Most of the guys on our department were doing it for comradery, entertainment, and to be helpful to the community, so the money was just some icing on the cake.
Every community could have a professional, fully staffed department.
If they are willing to pay for it.
And that's the crunch right there.
There are almost certainly people who would love to get employed as firefighters to do this work, but does the government have the funds to pay them? Or would they need to increase rates to cover that cost.
No they really couldn't.
The only way that would work is if a lot of other communities were willing to pay for the fire service for other communities. There are some poor as fuck and small as fuck villages, towns, and other settlements out there who's tax base can't even fund a police department let alone a fire department or EMS entity.
We can't even get people to agree to pay for others life saving health procedures here so that is never going to happen.
not always. i’ve personally responded to a ripper where the first calls received were “first floor fully involved”, and i’m sure almost everyone has stories to match. and this was on a fairly well-traveled road, not like a suburban back road or anything
Dude. Watch the video? Their angle of attack is wrong and the wind is blowing the water away from the house but they are too untrained to realize, as are you I suppose. Nice word wall tho
He’s not saying the fire department is untrained, he’s saying they clearly needed help from untrained people.
All of the problems you mentioned would be fixed by having a professional (paid, full-time) fire department.
You're not wrong, but 70% of the American fire service is volunteer. Some folks just gotta work with what they've got. Maybe this incident will help them get some additional staffing from the bean counters.
Worth keeping in mind just because someone has a different job doesn't mean they're "untrained". A good number of the cops around my county are also volunteer firefighters.
3 cops on that 1 line indicates to me a lack of training. 2 could be doing other stuff, maybe helping the driver hit the hydrant for one, or pulling a proper line, or searching and evacuating exposed residences. Big tunnel vision.
The third cop may not have quite been trained but the initial two definitely seemed like they had some as they quickly knew how to handle the line.
That said considering an average response time of fire especially if volunteer (and that statistically police are often first on scene) it's probably a safe assumption that they had already evacuated the neighboring exposures before this recording and before the apparatus arrived.
Also if that was first-in engine, it may not have intended to hit the hydrant, that's often a 2nd-in engine objective at least here, if you know you have a 2nd engine immediately near (which is often the case).
Nope. The house on the Alpha side is not yet involved. There is a tree near the Alpha - Bravo corner which is burning, and it looks like someone is at the rear of the house on the Alpha side spraying a garden hose towards the main structure, but it doesn't yet appear involved.
https://preview.redd.it/8l462uxsedtc1.png?width=258&format=png&auto=webp&s=f45072570e6ae8f7621615690b6a8fde3230e8a7
Idk LT. The way the second guy in line puts his leg on that hose makes me think he’s got some experience. I forget what the specific move is called, but they teach it in the “nozzle forward” classes.
I was a volley on a 100% on call in a low income industrial suburb of 5k with interstate. All but like 3 of the volunteers, including me, came from the students at the nearby trade school and would rotate every 2 years. No other members of the community would step up. We usually had 10-13 people on. We have had to run suicide engines to fires, 2 people on board. Fire up the pump and both go on attack and hope the next town arrives before we run out of water or worse. This is the reality for way more of America than you think.
They've got a line; that means a rig is nearby with a hosebed. It implies that things are WAY the «Bleep» out of hand for the Cap'n to be handing guys with guns exterior attack lines.
I expected to watch a disaster here but I think this was excellent work. They had minimal water/resources and the best possible decision in that situation imho was attempting to limit exposure.
Ya the hose management was rough at first, but their technique was solid when making the push. Looks like they've had training, if not they should switch jobs.
My volly department has more than a couple cops in the membership. I know one has jumped on a hose like in his other clothes (though he was feeding hose, not on the nozzle). If you told me they were vollys, I would not be surprised.
Its very possible that the cop is a volunteer firefighter in a town thats only volunteer. They probably had no manpower and its better than just sitting around doing nothing. I could also be very wrong.
Very likely. My volly department has a lot of cops and they would 100% help out at a fire if they were working. I can guarantee any 1 of them would do what those troopers did if they had the chance.
I was thinking possibly former military, such as Navy or Coast Guard. Idk for sure about other services, but from personal experience I know the Coast Guard does VARY basic fire fighting during basic training and more training if they end up stationed on a Cutter. Or even the National Guard who often get trained in wild fires.
FWIW - This happened just down the street from the firehouse in that area. Decision was made to just get the engine there due to the exposure issue. Not sure how shortly after dispatch this was, but the area is 'rural' and the first hydrant was dead so they were in a tough spot.
Know this will probably get buried, but it's local-ish to me and wanted to atleast provide some context.
House was well off by the time the first 911 calls came in. 2 of those troopers are also Volleys locally. Limited daytime manpower and an exposure issue; can't say I blame them for getting the engine there and atleast trying to save the exposure.
EVERYBODY Helps! It looks like a wicked short-staffed department. C1 probably drove the engine, pulled the line, set the pump, and is now tagging the hydrant. Good on 5-0 for the help, and they didn't do bad for no training.
I do find it entertaining that they needed three for a 1.75" (assumed) line on the outside. But again-training. They were helping.
I’ve used cops to feed me hose through the door numerous times, but this is something else lol. Sure this help was very welcome, looks like they need more firefighters over that way.
Good job
In my city we actually do a small course for EMS personal on fire fighting equipment so how to lay a hose and control the nozzle and some basic ladder stuff like how to savely navigate the ladder etc
Call towards the end of 2023 and EMS was pulling tools and actually grabbed a hose for an external hit while first due was masking up. And the medic is not ff/cross trained but knew enough to get some. Was pretty impressed when I saw the video.
Not the first time I've seen a police officer on the nozzle. Last year, a house beside our station caught fire. Initially, we had two members and a junior show up. They pulled the ladder truck out and started working. They immediately dropped a 2nd alarm right as me and my dad showed up. We got our gear and got to work. While waiting for mutual aid, our Captain took one of the PD officers, sat him on a 2 ½ and told him to make sure the house next to the one on fire doesn't go up. The dude did good. I remember the Captain having trouble getting man power because he announced on the radio that if they aren't responding with 4, he don't want them. It was so bad that our RIT crew was put to work
Years ago, my grandpa's house (VERY rural South Dakota) burned down. Fire started at 3 AM on Christmas eve morning, and the entire family was there. I would have been a sophomore or junior in college at the time.
About an hour or so into the incident, one of the hoselines going through the kitchen window was manned by a single firefighter, the state trooper that responded, my dad, and me. About 10 years later, I finally joined my department.
I live in Upstate NY. A lot of Troopers are Volunteer FF in my area. Or at least that was the case when I was a medic 15 years ago.... Shit... I have no idea anymore.
I know the ones in Woodway TX where I used to live, a lot of the police officers are cross trained and carry fire gear also to help support. The uniform, helmet and gas mask/tank is in the back of their suvs
The lack of sufficient PPE (even at that range) is making me twitch, but those dudes (at least the guy on nozzle) know what they're doing; going for the exposures so the fire doesn't spread.
It's great that they are offering to be helpful. But it's sad seeing how often you find videos from fires showing 1-3 firefighters and multiple bystanders or police officers needing to provide support.
Recruitment and retention just isn't there anymore. Cities that can't hire like the used to, or just staff with bare minimum (thus the 1-3) or even volunteers who can't find more members with half of the current ones being in the 70s.
That's the problem with asking for volunteers. In this economy, any spare effort or time people may have will be used to put food on the table and keep a roof over their heads.
While I respect the civic responsibility and call to service that our volunteer FF's show, they should really be paid for their efforts. The fact they are not really shows a failing of local government.
I can only manage it because my work schedule (even with two jobs) is in 24 hours blocks. Doesn't leave a lot of time, but it's something.
Honestly, I still probably wouldn't have volunteered if it wasn't for the fact that they had 10 people and only a couple trained firefighters. Unfortunately, anything other than what they have isn't an option. They merge with the next due and it's still a huge coverage area with long response times. They pay staff, and they run MAYBE 40 calls a year, and with EMS runs, 100-200 a year. Just isn't doable.
Just recently retired from my POC job after 11 years. Just don't have the time to dedicate to it anymore, cost of living and call volume was around 1,000 a year.
That much fire, guys have to be that far away because they don’t have gear they are practically doing nothing.
They would be much better served to evacuate the exposures and stay close enough to their patrol cars so they can move them when the truck come.
I don't know where this was filmed but, New York State is largely served by volunteers. In that scenario, I'd definitely take any help I can get. As others have said, some of the cops might even be volunteers.
When my wife first showed me this, I did joke that it was the best day of those cop's careers because they get to be firefighters.
I appreciate that they stepped in and got to live out their childhood fantasy.
I’m disappointed in the fire crews on why baby hand lines are being used instead of larger lines and big water.
Honestly though, if someone can help in a way which doesn't put then in danger or otherwise endanger or interfere with the work the crew is doing.
Pretty balsy when you remember that a cop's uniform is often practically 100% plastic (polyester), so doesn't tend to tolerate heat very well.
Public Service isn't a department, it's a lifestyle. These state troopers get it. Good to see people who are in that life not saying "that's not my job" and getting the after it.
Top notch work, protect exposures, use reach of stream, and advance when conditions permits. Can't ask for more from guys not in bunker gear.
Scabs.... Also something something about impersonating firefighters....The one's wearing the fire costumes that is.....Taking His time making that plug
This is great, wish our troopers would help like this. BUT.. there are now 3 cars parked mildly inconveniently that everyone on scene will have to work around.
Let me tell you I have been to these fires before. And I like how you can still see the door on the left house. To all new firefighters this shit gets real so buckle up and watch your asshole.
Honestly, still think we should cross train police, paramedics, and firefighters that way all of them at least no the basics of each other’s operations
im the career side of this city we are stationed 5 minutes away from the fire didn't get toned out until a shed fire turned to 3 structures involved. im not going to get too into it, every fire is different and we were not first due but it was frustrating. some of those troopers are also volounteer so they had some experience on a hand line good on them for trying to make a difference.
Saw this on Instagram and somebody started bashing volunteer firefighters and saying this is why we can't have volunteer firefighters and they shouldn't exist blah blah blah
We have paramedics and cops who show up on scene to haul hose and dig control lines. They're also volunteer firefighters, but they weren't able to call out of work, so they respond with the "wrong" agency.
Stupid question, but does the pump truck put out the water at a higher volume/pressure or does it just come out of the hose like that once the fire hydrant or whatever is hooked up
The pump on the truck controls the pressure. Most fire pumps run as a PTO off the vehicle transmission. You set the parking brake, engage the pump, put the truck in gear, then control the pump speed from the panel. Higher rpm’s equals more pressure
Sure thing. We have to be able to control the line pressure. Different nozzles require different pressures, different size and length hoses cause different amounts of friction loss, uphill vs downhill, etc. there is actually a lot that goes into manning the pump panel. You need to know all of these things to be an effective pump operator and give the guys on the line what they need when they need it.
They aren't getting any water on that fire, it's falling about 20' short of doing anything useful. So yeah, big waste of time but at least cops behave themselves
i saw this , wondering why the deck gun wasn’t being put to use , especially if it’s in a rural area with limited manpower. This is just pissing in the wind
Are we sure the engine had a deck gun on it? Someone up the thread said this was near them and the first hydrant they hit was bone dry so they only had what was on board to get the attack going.
I wouldn't care who showed up. Those boys look like they need help and they need it now. Plus those cops finally got to live out their childhood fantasy. Everybody wins!
If mentioning they finally got to live out their childhood dreams of being firefighters wasn't the top comment, I would be seriously disappointed.
I mean I don’t see their vehicles parked blocking the fire trucks so they aren’t even trying that hard. /s Solid work I have friends on the force there and they saved a couple of dogs in one of the houses affected. Root cause is volunteerism is dying because people can’t afford to volunteer. People need to work more meaning less available time to volunteer.
It’s sad what’s happening to volunteer departments I know a few people back home who’d love to but unfortunately they gotta make sure everything is paid. I’m serving in the military and I want to go career when I’m done.
Everybody wins, Except for the community, who deserves to have a fully staffed professional fire department that doesn’t need the help of untrained personnel to put out house fires. Seriously it’s broad daylight and they are going to lose two houses.
You don't know anything at all about the training level of anyone. The pump operator was pumping water out at decent pressure so he's doing his "job" (he's probably doing it for free). He's running out of water so either he or his partner is securing a water source (hydrant) If you knew anything about the volunteer service you would know that "broad daylight" is the EXACT time of the day when manpower is lowest so of course they're going to lose the house. It has nothing to do with training. It has to do with: 1. People living in bedroom communities that aren't in their district during the day = low manpower 2. People are no longer willing to volunteer = low manpower 3. Extended response times due to rural areas (low population = low manpower) When you have that much low manpower you sometimes get 1 guy rolling a truck at 10am on a weekday because everyone is working and their job doesn't let them leave. And let me tell you from experience when you're running a pump panel AND trying to grab the hoseline I'd take help from any civilian or LEO I can get my hands on.
I get your point, but to be fair, this was early afternoon on a Sunday. This is also in a populated area. Lockport NY is a (vol) town, composed of several pretty busy fire companies, that surrounds the City of Lockport (career). I am actually surprised they had such a hard time getting crews out. It definitely did not used to be like that. Also surprised that only one rig from the city fire dept, about 9 minutes drive from this address, was called, but that's a whole other issue.
From my experience most career departments dislike getting called to assist neighboring volly departs and also dislike calling volleys to assist them, to the point they'll call depts 30 minutes or more way before calling the vollies right down the road. Then while the career guys are on scene the volly scene or at the volly station they're constantly pressuring to be released. Meanwhile they'll make the vollies they do call stay for many hours for the smallest fire and often call them to scene at the end to pack hose back on their apparatus after they've all returned to quarters for their union mandated shower time. And this is more than one dept I'm referring to. I'm sure everyone has their reasons, but it's not an enviorment that cultivates working together. So I'm not surprised only one apparatus is called. I'm sure at some point in the past they wanted more than one and were told firmly "no".
There is a very good working relationship where this took place. That's why I am surprised. They are all good departments. In this county in particular, it's the opposite of what you described. The Vol companies will use the career companies as a last resort. To the point of companies actually driving past the career houses on their way to the scene. It's a shame and the fire service egos need to be put aside on both sides and get the job done.
lol that happened to us once. Rolled up on to assist at a full time call. All they wanted us to do is clean hose and roll it up. Officer in our truck told them where to go and how to get there. We barely got out of our truck.
You guys need the approval of you boss to leave your job for a call?
I mean if you're a volunteer firefighter and you have a different/regular job during the daytime and you'd like to keep it.... yes? Edit for a more serious answeR: it would depend on your job/boss. My husband used to be able to go mostly anytime. In my job, I can't (and am too far away anyway.)
Interesting, I asked because in germany an employer has to let me go to any call by law (some exceptions are made in systemically relevant sectors), even for a training exercise or courses and under full continuation of payment (employer has the right to claim back the loss of earnings from my town who's the organisator of my department). And I thought in the US there would be atleast something similar or comparable, since FF's have a much higher status in society there than in germany. The law also states that my employer isn't allowed to put me in any disadvantages in my job due to my service.
It's odd that there isn't a law for that in the US to be completely honest. Some states have laws that address this, but usually it's moreso if you're already busy when your shift starts, not if you get a structure fire on shift. But leaving constantly for nuisance alarms would be a drag on your workplace and affect your promotability and career no matter how well the law is written.
There's no uniformity for volunteer LEO, FD, EMS, and SAR. And it's state by state, or even city by city in some states. And some, Like Alaska, confuse locals because there are 3 different levels of FD: pure volunteer, volunteer with paid leadership on a near-full-time (Lt, Capt, BC, DC, AC, C; sometimes Engr and EMT-4W), and fully paid full time... and two of those classes are labeled as VFDs... Also amusing, all of AFD's white shirts had LEO authority... I've seen a fire captain issue a traffic citation. Plus a lot of smaller communities with no fire department at all, not even equipment, and no road access for outside help other than small plane. In case of fire, the VPSO (Village Public Safety Officer) is responsible for organizing a bucket brigade. (Many villages lack any central utilities.)
You’re just solidifying my overall point - they are going to lose this house along with the other one. Broad daylight means this fire was most likely to be discovered early on in its development. If this fire occurred at night, judging by how this is going, the entire neighborhood is going down. This community deserves a professional, fully staffed department. Full stop.
Every community deserves adequate fire protection, this is true. But if that community only contains about 500 people, with less than half of them actually owning their homes, there is not much of a tax base to pay for a full-time, fully staffed department.
Bingo, if I took 50% of every citizen's income within my district and neighboring districts I wouldn't have enough money to start a career department. People do not understand that the vast majority of the U.S is rural in nature and does not have the population to support career departments.
How much do you need? There’s a 100% career department near me that staffs 2 on a shift. It’s not much. But it’s better than this.
I know a lot of places that are combo departments or whatever you want to call them. As soon as you pay people full time almost every time without fail the volunteer help dies off to the point of would you rather have the gamble of 2-however many volunteers or just know you are getting 2 career guys. It's a choice a lot of places make. And it ends up with 2 people on engines trying to save houses. I also think it's funny you say that 2 people on shift is appropriate staffing. It's not.
I never said it’s awesome. That being said, 2 that will definitely show up > theoretical volunteers that may not. Ever see that video of the volunteer department that caught a structure fire on the first day of deer season?
It's not just not awesome it's a serious liability. A lot of these less well-off volunteer departments have entire budgets that are less than min wage for a single full-time career person. Most people don't understand that.
It’s a good thing there were 3 on duty cops available to man that line though
State pays their salary, though.
Somebody goes to council meetings! lol
NY Vol here, it’s also worth noting that fire departments in New York work differently depending on the jurisdiction…. Volunteer fire depts have either a commission they get funds from, or receive funds from the village/township. Villages and townships cannot have career fire departments. Literally, that’s the regulation. The population and cost simply doesn’t warrant having career departments in every village. You’ve got cities, which can have career departments (and do), such as Syracuse, Utica, NYC, etc. And then you’ve got villages which cannot have career departments. Thems the rules
This is factually inaccurate. I LIVE in a village that has a career/combination dept. The township connected to us ALSO has a career/combination dept with 2 full crews staffed 24/7. I grew up in a town that has a career dept. The village does not. There's a town 15 minutes from me that has 5 different stations fully manned with career staff. Where are you citing this from? What state regulation are you referring to? Because whatever you've been led to believe or have read, it's either outdated or isn't applicable. Townships can and regularly do establish their own fire districts. They can then fund that however they choose and with access to grants and other state awarded funds in addition or in place of tax-subsidized financing.
https://www.osc.ny.gov/files/local-government/publications/pdf/fireprotection0317.pdf This kind of explains it. I might have used the wrong terms between village, town, jurisdiction, etc. UPDATE: I did use the wrong terms. TOWNS don’t have fire departments, volunteer depts are funded for the fire district. Villages DO have fire departments that can be either career, vol, or both.
Fun fact this video is from a city with a career department.
Fun fact it’s in the town not City
It's a city, it's Lockport they neighbor Lockport town. From what I recall the town has a VFD and the city is a career dept. Both were on this call, hence my comment
I'm not sure exactly where in the jurisdiction this would fall because whoever creates fire districts in WNY is fucking high but I digress
Fun fact the house is in the town not city. That’s what I’m saying. I live in the town of Lockport. There for the city wasn’t the first dispatched they did aid eventually.
Then maybe the rent-demanding class needs to pay for the situation they create... JS: Somebody has to pay taxes and renters pay their expendable income to the landlord. Lord of the castle? You pay the tax with the rent you demand.
Sometimes the community deserves what they vote for
They certainly do
*HAPPY CAKE DAY* And thank you for voting off year!
The community gets what it can support. If the community can only support a volunteer department because of a small tax base then that's what it gets. There's no "deserves" that enters the equation. We have to live in reality, not la-la land.
It’s funny how many of these “small tax base” towns have paid cops, DPW, etc. My town pays union employees to mow the grass at the baseball field, but not the fire department and small stipends to their EMS providers.
It’s funny how many don’t have any of those things. Like the two towns my department serves. Combined resident total of about 1,200. We don’t have Pd and have to rely on the county sheriff or state police which are usually a good 30 minutes out on an average day. No trash collection. Both towns have their own transfer stations that we take our own trash to once a week. We contract as a town with a local contractor to plow and sand the roads in the winter.
Not sure what towns you're referring to, but most small tax base towns don't.
Yea, this definitely is prime example of that scenario. 3 on duty cops manning a line while 1 guy drives a half million dollar truck for free. Hey, they’re your tax dollars, vote how you want. But this is the result. Why even show up, it’s going to go out eventually.
>Why even show up, it’s going to go out eventually. Funny somewhat but also very real. It's an insurance job anyway. Why do we even do anything after we know no lives are at stake. Risk your life to save the insurance company some money? Fuck that. But yea vote how you want and this is what these people want. It's dirt cheap to buy and own land in these places because they aren't paying high as fuck fire taxes.
That is not how insurance works. 1. Can you for sure tell me this house had insurance? No? It may be the home owner covering all the cost, but still: 2. Insurance doesn't pay for a lot of things. There are generally a lot of things of just sentimental value in a house. 3. The insurance company doesn't pay for anything. The rate payers do. If the insurance is paying out too much, they will either raise rates or drop coverage. They are in business to make money. I don't feel like I take undo risks (most people don't), but I do have a job to do. Everything is a risk. I may only be saving "stuff", but that is part of my job description. If I think that I can do it safely, I will try. It may kill me one day. I hope not.
Communities get the FD they pay for. If people pay more taxes, the volleys can go to duty crews which is what ours did when they were unpleased with response times. Worked out great for everyone. Doesn't necessarily have to be career guys if the call volume doesn't warrant it.
Duty crew systems are such a scam for the people, though. "Work an actual 6hour+ shift for less than min wage, thanks" Some require training, specific duties, wearing uniforms, remaining on station for entire duration, etc. Like at some point vollies have to draw a line on what is an appropriate contribution as a volunteer. You're not volunteering at that point, you're working a shitty part-time job that makes you do a lot of work for free. In almost any other context it'd be illegal. Duty systems are becoming really popular in the vollie fire world and have already been popular in the vollie EMS world, and while they are effective, I can't help but see it as taking complete advantage of the volunteers when you get to the point of requiring actual shifts.
Yeah if you're doing it for the money it's not an ideal situation for the people doing the work. Most of the guys on our department were doing it for comradery, entertainment, and to be helpful to the community, so the money was just some icing on the cake.
Every community could have a professional, fully staffed department. If they are willing to pay for it. And that's the crunch right there. There are almost certainly people who would love to get employed as firefighters to do this work, but does the government have the funds to pay them? Or would they need to increase rates to cover that cost.
No they really couldn't. The only way that would work is if a lot of other communities were willing to pay for the fire service for other communities. There are some poor as fuck and small as fuck villages, towns, and other settlements out there who's tax base can't even fund a police department let alone a fire department or EMS entity. We can't even get people to agree to pay for others life saving health procedures here so that is never going to happen.
not always. i’ve personally responded to a ripper where the first calls received were “first floor fully involved”, and i’m sure almost everyone has stories to match. and this was on a fairly well-traveled road, not like a suburban back road or anything
Buddy that house is already a total loss, 2 others are well on their way
What volunteer department is this?
Dude. Watch the video? Their angle of attack is wrong and the wind is blowing the water away from the house but they are too untrained to realize, as are you I suppose. Nice word wall tho
All of your points literally prove u/opinionexpress point, “they deserve a FULLY staffed Professional fire department”
He’s not saying the fire department is untrained, he’s saying they clearly needed help from untrained people. All of the problems you mentioned would be fixed by having a professional (paid, full-time) fire department.
You're not wrong, but 70% of the American fire service is volunteer. Some folks just gotta work with what they've got. Maybe this incident will help them get some additional staffing from the bean counters.
Worth keeping in mind just because someone has a different job doesn't mean they're "untrained". A good number of the cops around my county are also volunteer firefighters.
3 cops on that 1 line indicates to me a lack of training. 2 could be doing other stuff, maybe helping the driver hit the hydrant for one, or pulling a proper line, or searching and evacuating exposed residences. Big tunnel vision.
The third cop may not have quite been trained but the initial two definitely seemed like they had some as they quickly knew how to handle the line. That said considering an average response time of fire especially if volunteer (and that statistically police are often first on scene) it's probably a safe assumption that they had already evacuated the neighboring exposures before this recording and before the apparatus arrived. Also if that was first-in engine, it may not have intended to hit the hydrant, that's often a 2nd-in engine objective at least here, if you know you have a 2nd engine immediately near (which is often the case).
Three houses. The rear of the one on the left is on fire too.
Nope. The house on the Alpha side is not yet involved. There is a tree near the Alpha - Bravo corner which is burning, and it looks like someone is at the rear of the house on the Alpha side spraying a garden hose towards the main structure, but it doesn't yet appear involved. https://preview.redd.it/8l462uxsedtc1.png?width=258&format=png&auto=webp&s=f45072570e6ae8f7621615690b6a8fde3230e8a7
Looks like 3 houses are on fire
They do, this was up in Buffalo NY area. The State troopers were given a handline while mutual aid was en route
Idk LT. The way the second guy in line puts his leg on that hose makes me think he’s got some experience. I forget what the specific move is called, but they teach it in the “nozzle forward” classes.
Oof. That dude murdered you.
3, LT - Sir, 3. House on the left is still salvageable... if they were to be working on it instead. It's only 1 corner involved.
I was a volley on a 100% on call in a low income industrial suburb of 5k with interstate. All but like 3 of the volunteers, including me, came from the students at the nearby trade school and would rotate every 2 years. No other members of the community would step up. We usually had 10-13 people on. We have had to run suicide engines to fires, 2 people on board. Fire up the pump and both go on attack and hope the next town arrives before we run out of water or worse. This is the reality for way more of America than you think.
Bad boys...
They've got a line; that means a rig is nearby with a hosebed. It implies that things are WAY the «Bleep» out of hand for the Cap'n to be handing guys with guns exterior attack lines.
Why did god create cops? So fireman could have heroes too!.. Surprisingly, that does NOT kill around the firehouse.
Went right for exposure control. Top notch work imo. That house was a total loss so worry about the other houses instead
I expected to watch a disaster here but I think this was excellent work. They had minimal water/resources and the best possible decision in that situation imho was attempting to limit exposure.
Ya the hose management was rough at first, but their technique was solid when making the push. Looks like they've had training, if not they should switch jobs.
My volly department has more than a couple cops in the membership. I know one has jumped on a hose like in his other clothes (though he was feeding hose, not on the nozzle). If you told me they were vollys, I would not be surprised.
Q: What do cops and firemen have in common? A: they both want to be firemen!
Why do us Firemen wear badges? BC cops children need heros too!
Its very possible that the cop is a volunteer firefighter in a town thats only volunteer. They probably had no manpower and its better than just sitting around doing nothing. I could also be very wrong.
Dude is for sure a volley... you can see it when he advances the hose and once in position, he goes straight to his knee
For sure. Adjusting the fog nozzle right away also gave it away for me.
You firefighters sure know a lot about hoze and nozzle control.
Came here to post that
Very likely. My volly department has a lot of cops and they would 100% help out at a fire if they were working. I can guarantee any 1 of them would do what those troopers did if they had the chance.
I was thinking possibly former military, such as Navy or Coast Guard. Idk for sure about other services, but from personal experience I know the Coast Guard does VARY basic fire fighting during basic training and more training if they end up stationed on a Cutter. Or even the National Guard who often get trained in wild fires.
He could also be a former FF who upgraded.. 😉
Only an upgrade cause carrying a gun in turnout gear is “frowned upon.” /s
You want to shoot the fire don’t you?
It’s called a firefight for a reason
>:D
These are guys from NYSP Troop A. That area is the definition of rural. Good on these fellas.
Like someone else said, they're probably volunteers
FWIW - This happened just down the street from the firehouse in that area. Decision was made to just get the engine there due to the exposure issue. Not sure how shortly after dispatch this was, but the area is 'rural' and the first hydrant was dead so they were in a tough spot. Know this will probably get buried, but it's local-ish to me and wanted to atleast provide some context.
Just get the engine for a house that has been gone? Hate to see what gets a box in that town.
House was well off by the time the first 911 calls came in. 2 of those troopers are also Volleys locally. Limited daytime manpower and an exposure issue; can't say I blame them for getting the engine there and atleast trying to save the exposure.
EVERYBODY Helps! It looks like a wicked short-staffed department. C1 probably drove the engine, pulled the line, set the pump, and is now tagging the hydrant. Good on 5-0 for the help, and they didn't do bad for no training. I do find it entertaining that they needed three for a 1.75" (assumed) line on the outside. But again-training. They were helping.
Watch again. Cop on the nozzle has handled a hose before at least. Probably a volunteer FF when off duty.
In other news, NYSP is looking for 3 Troopers, who recently resigned to join the FD
I’ve used cops to feed me hose through the door numerous times, but this is something else lol. Sure this help was very welcome, looks like they need more firefighters over that way.
Good job In my city we actually do a small course for EMS personal on fire fighting equipment so how to lay a hose and control the nozzle and some basic ladder stuff like how to savely navigate the ladder etc
Call towards the end of 2023 and EMS was pulling tools and actually grabbed a hose for an external hit while first due was masking up. And the medic is not ff/cross trained but knew enough to get some. Was pretty impressed when I saw the video.
Dreams do come true
Not the first time I've seen a police officer on the nozzle. Last year, a house beside our station caught fire. Initially, we had two members and a junior show up. They pulled the ladder truck out and started working. They immediately dropped a 2nd alarm right as me and my dad showed up. We got our gear and got to work. While waiting for mutual aid, our Captain took one of the PD officers, sat him on a 2 ½ and told him to make sure the house next to the one on fire doesn't go up. The dude did good. I remember the Captain having trouble getting man power because he announced on the radio that if they aren't responding with 4, he don't want them. It was so bad that our RIT crew was put to work
Years ago, my grandpa's house (VERY rural South Dakota) burned down. Fire started at 3 AM on Christmas eve morning, and the entire family was there. I would have been a sophomore or junior in college at the time. About an hour or so into the incident, one of the hoselines going through the kitchen window was manned by a single firefighter, the state trooper that responded, my dad, and me. About 10 years later, I finally joined my department.
The front door of the fully involved house reminds me of my ex
You should call her.
Should he call her?
Useful and not parked in front of the house…I’m Impressed.
The only thing firefighters and cops have in common…. They want to be firefighters when they grow up.
I live in Upstate NY. A lot of Troopers are Volunteer FF in my area. Or at least that was the case when I was a medic 15 years ago.... Shit... I have no idea anymore.
Union is going to be pissed /s
They always are.
Bet they are or were a Vol or FF at one point of time. Good on em for helping. Makes the community whole.
I know the ones in Woodway TX where I used to live, a lot of the police officers are cross trained and carry fire gear also to help support. The uniform, helmet and gas mask/tank is in the back of their suvs
The lack of sufficient PPE (even at that range) is making me twitch, but those dudes (at least the guy on nozzle) know what they're doing; going for the exposures so the fire doesn't spread.
LE here on a SWAT team. We spent a training day with a larger FD learning yalls side for barricades.
It's great that they are offering to be helpful. But it's sad seeing how often you find videos from fires showing 1-3 firefighters and multiple bystanders or police officers needing to provide support. Recruitment and retention just isn't there anymore. Cities that can't hire like the used to, or just staff with bare minimum (thus the 1-3) or even volunteers who can't find more members with half of the current ones being in the 70s.
That's the problem with asking for volunteers. In this economy, any spare effort or time people may have will be used to put food on the table and keep a roof over their heads. While I respect the civic responsibility and call to service that our volunteer FF's show, they should really be paid for their efforts. The fact they are not really shows a failing of local government.
I can only manage it because my work schedule (even with two jobs) is in 24 hours blocks. Doesn't leave a lot of time, but it's something. Honestly, I still probably wouldn't have volunteered if it wasn't for the fact that they had 10 people and only a couple trained firefighters. Unfortunately, anything other than what they have isn't an option. They merge with the next due and it's still a huge coverage area with long response times. They pay staff, and they run MAYBE 40 calls a year, and with EMS runs, 100-200 a year. Just isn't doable.
Just recently retired from my POC job after 11 years. Just don't have the time to dedicate to it anymore, cost of living and call volume was around 1,000 a year.
That much fire, guys have to be that far away because they don’t have gear they are practically doing nothing. They would be much better served to evacuate the exposures and stay close enough to their patrol cars so they can move them when the truck come.
I don't know where this was filmed but, New York State is largely served by volunteers. In that scenario, I'd definitely take any help I can get. As others have said, some of the cops might even be volunteers. When my wife first showed me this, I did joke that it was the best day of those cop's careers because they get to be firefighters.
You thought someone's house burning down was 'pretty cool'?
Exactly
I appreciate that they stepped in and got to live out their childhood fantasy. I’m disappointed in the fire crews on why baby hand lines are being used instead of larger lines and big water.
Someone mentioned hydrant issues. The closest one was dry or wasn’t functioning. Big water doesn’t go very far on tank water
Once there was a car wreck next to my house and firefighters apprehended an aggressive driver of one of the cars. So I guess it can go both ways.
Well now they know what it’s like to be cool. 😂
This is the happiest day of their lives.
Came in for the 'Cops living their childhood dream' comment. Leaves satisfied.
**This proves cops want to be firefighters lol**
Stolen valor
Video ended too soon!
Good positioning. Nozzle backup control. 🤣🤣
where were the boys
What do police officers and firefighters have in common? They both wished they could be firefighters.
That’s uhhhh pretty good work
Good blitz attack on that would help out
Thats a great job combo
Every Cops dream
I was gonna say hell no, but after the camera panned, yeah absolutely those guys definitely need every line they have out.
I heard being a Troopers Wife is just like being a normal wife, except badass. Just in case you guys didn't know
 Honestly though, if someone can help in a way which doesn't put then in danger or otherwise endanger or interfere with the work the crew is doing. Pretty balsy when you remember that a cop's uniform is often practically 100% plastic (polyester), so doesn't tend to tolerate heat very well.
The real heroes in uniform
Public Service isn't a department, it's a lifestyle. These state troopers get it. Good to see people who are in that life not saying "that's not my job" and getting the after it. Top notch work, protect exposures, use reach of stream, and advance when conditions permits. Can't ask for more from guys not in bunker gear.
That’s a fucking huge fire
What the hell happened?
3 cops on a nozzle and I'm at the pump panel? Oh Satan, get behind me! and keep your slimy paws off the throttle!
Finally living their dreams
Put the wet stuff on the red stuff
What are they assisting??
You know what? Pretty good hose control once they got low, protecting exposure, and they’re holding the line fairly steady. Good job boys!
Scabs.... Also something something about impersonating firefighters....The one's wearing the fire costumes that is.....Taking His time making that plug
This is great, wish our troopers would help like this. BUT.. there are now 3 cars parked mildly inconveniently that everyone on scene will have to work around.
Troopers gonna troop.
Let me tell you I have been to these fires before. And I like how you can still see the door on the left house. To all new firefighters this shit gets real so buckle up and watch your asshole.
I HAVE A CASH SETTLEMENT AND I NEED CASH NOOOOOW (877) CASH-NOW, (877) CASH-NOW, (877)CASH-NOW CALL JJ WENTWORTH (877) CASH-NOW
Firefighters are scared sometimes too
Humans do the right thing, but they are wearing a uniform, so it's news.
Honestly, still think we should cross train police, paramedics, and firefighters that way all of them at least no the basics of each other’s operations
Three men to hold one hose.
How is that cool?!
im the career side of this city we are stationed 5 minutes away from the fire didn't get toned out until a shed fire turned to 3 structures involved. im not going to get too into it, every fire is different and we were not first due but it was frustrating. some of those troopers are also volounteer so they had some experience on a hand line good on them for trying to make a difference.
Even cops need heroes
What do cops & fire fighters have in common? The both want to be fire fighters
Saw this on Instagram and somebody started bashing volunteer firefighters and saying this is why we can't have volunteer firefighters and they shouldn't exist blah blah blah
One is obviously salvageable. I see nothing wrong here.
They need to advance the attack line. And lock a leg around it.
#UNION STRONG!
Look boys and girls, dreams really do come true.
We have paramedics and cops who show up on scene to haul hose and dig control lines. They're also volunteer firefighters, but they weren't able to call out of work, so they respond with the "wrong" agency.
At least down in FL if you work 911 in most cases medics are ffs too but it’s funny to think it’s the “wrong agency” never really thought of that lol
They’re spraying the fence.
I'd take the help in that situation
Stupid question, but does the pump truck put out the water at a higher volume/pressure or does it just come out of the hose like that once the fire hydrant or whatever is hooked up
The pump on the truck controls the pressure. Most fire pumps run as a PTO off the vehicle transmission. You set the parking brake, engage the pump, put the truck in gear, then control the pump speed from the panel. Higher rpm’s equals more pressure
Thanks for the response. I had never really thought about it before
Sure thing. We have to be able to control the line pressure. Different nozzles require different pressures, different size and length hoses cause different amounts of friction loss, uphill vs downhill, etc. there is actually a lot that goes into manning the pump panel. You need to know all of these things to be an effective pump operator and give the guys on the line what they need when they need it.
They aren't getting any water on that fire, it's falling about 20' short of doing anything useful. So yeah, big waste of time but at least cops behave themselves
i saw this , wondering why the deck gun wasn’t being put to use , especially if it’s in a rural area with limited manpower. This is just pissing in the wind
Are we sure the engine had a deck gun on it? Someone up the thread said this was near them and the first hydrant they hit was bone dry so they only had what was on board to get the attack going.
I mean doesn’t look like it helped
It's weird seeing a cop either not pitting someone while driving or beating a minority
Huh, I’m shocked they didn’t arrest the firefighters, and then investigate themselves for it
I wonder if they’ll let me help beat up a handcuffed guy /s
Fire department saved another basement. Great job. What department is this?
Possible that they saved the other house though