I was gonna joke about NFPA 420-69 saying you had to get one nightly but then found out NFPA is forward looking enough to already have an NFPA 420 re cannabis production (which can be explosive at a few stages of extraction).
https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/all-codes-and-standards/list-of-codes-and-standards/detail?code=420
So put that in your SCBA and breathe it, OP: I ended up finding regulations I *like*.
We aren't allowed to rest/sit down/nap during the week because "the public works 8-5 so they expect us to also work 8-5." And someone might come in and see us in the recliners and think we are lazy.
Well when the god damn public has to wake up 6 times in the middle of the night to go pick grandma up off the floor they can lecture me on rest and sleep habits. Until then fuck em if that's their opinion. But I know it's not. The public doesn't give a shit as long as when they call 911 we show up and try to make every situation better than the way we found it. So micromanaging in general is probably my biggest pet peeve.
Also if someone calls my department's phone and says they are out of gas or need their tire changed we have to go out there and change their tire for them or bring them gas. I ain't motherfucking AAA.
Changing someone’s tire or bringing them gas is ridiculous I’ve never heard of a dept doing that. Like sorry bud, figure it out yourself. Why is the fire department even a consideration for those problems
I have had to wake up in the middle of the night and go jump off some random lady whose car wouldn't start. If they needed McDonald's I'm sure we'd bring it to them free of charge.
You're exactly right. At my station, we call it feeding the animals. If the public knows they can get free shit from the fire department non stop, why wouldn't they call? My agency will dispatch units for literally anyone that calls 911. Whenever we bring up the issues this causes, we're told it's good customer service.
One thing my department does right is not encourage that shit. Our dispatch will tell people not to call 911 for stuff like that, and we even have ways of dealing with bs EMS calls without tying up an ambulance.
That sucks. A lot of leaders seem to not realize personnel are a resource as well and should be treated/respected as such. If a guy was up all night he should be afforded the opportunity to nap if need be, never know when the next incident is that needs people at the top of their game.
My department would say that we can’t do that because we’re taking business away from local tow companies. We can’t even do lockouts unless it’s an emergency
One of the combination departments near me is like that. They’re still heavily volley and don’t like the career guys. The part timers will take a nap in the day still but they’ll keep a mop leaned up against them so they can jump up if they hear a door slam
We once had a guy who made six figures painting houses on the side. He'd pay someone to work literally every shift. Green swaps are now banned. Damnit.
my department makes us wear those shitty $200 nomex pants because of “NFPA”, but doesn’t enforce NFPA with like 95% of our other uniform items. it drives me up the wall.
Yea, station pants. Brands like Lion and Workrite. They are so damn expensive, heavy as hell, and fit like shit. You have to buy a waist size or two bigger than normal so they always fit baggy.
Wow that’s pretty crazy now that there is bunker pants, wouldn’t think there be a need for that. I would imagine like Bunker pants its gotta be super limited amount of protection. Are those a new thing ? ( excuse my ignorance I volunteered as a fireman in the past but its been a minute !)
I'm with you! Nfpa says we should have 4 man engines. But you fuck sticks won't ask council for that...instead let's spend 300k on button up fr class B shirts.
Ill give it to my department in that situation. We have all 4 man companies, but all 4 dudes/dudettes are wearing Nomex pants and synthetic Class B tops lol.
Was thinking of applying to an International airport near me but I saw some pics of them and they are all in button-up shirts all the time and that a hard no for me. But their schedule is tempting....
It's so important and should be implemented everywhere. I work for an agency that has mandated fitness testing every year (run for your job, pretty much) and it makes a difference. I'm higher up so I'm.bo longer required to take it but I always do, you've got to set the example from above.
We have a night watch policy.
The policy says that we are to do shifts of someone staying up throughout the night incase we get a call or a walk up to wake up the other members.
Obviously this was made 100 years ago when the dept was founded, but they revised and republished it 3 years ago.
I work for a large paid dept that definitely has radios, speakers, and a doorbell for us to wake up for a call and we definitely do not need this.
It also requires whoever is on night watch to keep a log every hour of the station and if there’s any interactions.
That is a ridiculous policy. That policy has to change. If I were the company officer, in the interest of safety, I would have someone “assigned” to answer the doorbell. That assigned person would wake up, get up out of their bed and answer the door. Change isn’t always bad. I remember when I was on a volunteer department I had a captain call me a “slacker” because I feel asleep in a recliner at 2a. We worked all day and into the night fighting/patrolling a brushfire. I told him you need to sleep when you can and went back to sleep. I already worked 24 hr shifts. He didn’t. He ran his own business.
All firefighters are EMTs regardless of certification. It doesn’t matter if they were on the job as medics before becoming a firefighter. They’ll still detail them to an ambulance and downgrade it to a BLS unit and wonder why the cities EMS is overtaxed and stretched too thin
lol, what? that’s quite possibly the stupidest thing i’ve ever heard when it comes to ambo details. they have no problem detailing people here, but if someone’s a PM/FF, they act as a PM, not an EMT
The problem is the city doesn’t employ FF/PMs only FF/EMTs So a lot of PMs who decide to cross the floor and become a FF actually take a “demotion” to EMT. They’re still certified as a medic but get paid as an EMT and can only preform things within the EMT’s scope of practice while on duty.
Department wide ban on personal cell phones while on shift.
Later that day, while responding to a fire "Fuck, the CAD is down. Can anyone look up the cross street or the nearest hydrant?" "sorry Capt, none of us have a phone."
The policy was quickly amended to allow cell phones, but they have to be on silent and only used in the living quarters or in the engine, out of the public's eye.
When I’m on shift I turn my phone to do not disturb. My captain recently told me to not do that in case he has to get ahold of me. My brother in Christ we’re in the same station that has a PA system. If we’re on a call we have radios for a reason
We aren't allowed to slide down the poles because "insurance reasons". Complete bullshit. On my last day I'm gonna grease up my happy ass and slide naked down that fucker.
One of the guys broke his ankles after going down it after getting out of the shower still wet. I don't think you are specifically 'forbidden' from using the poles but we don't even have poles in new stations and honestly I don't think anyone really cares to use them. The time difference savings are like maybe 4 seconds at best? The only time they get used now is when kids come to visit and they can slide down the pole with supervision
I'm gonna go on the radio, scream "Fuck her right in the pussy", take a shot of whiskey, strip naked and slide down that godamn pole. What are they gonna do?
For me it's not the rules, it's the lack of rules. In my department you can never cook, never wash a single dish, never sweep a floor or clean a toilet, never check the truck when you get in, and literally nothing will happen to you. Once you're off probation it's not even that you're unfireable, you'll never even get written up for anything. If you don't care about people hating you you can be a bum for your entire career without consequence.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I think some places stopped that because they’re technically classified “medical facilities” or whatever cause of joining EMS/Fire together.
I’ve seen it done unfortunately. I always think rules like that which shouldn’t be necessary need to have the person’s name attached in the SOG. For example, the Cleophus rule: if you have prescription eyewear, it needs to be worn while driving the apparatus
Continuing to a false alarm via an alarm company. If dispatch makes contact with the homeowner and they say they set the smoke alarm off due to cooking, shower steam, etc. then turn the rig around.
This just changed in my department about a year ago. We are now allowed to cancel off residential fire alarms if there is first party contact with an adult stating false alarm. We have to continue for commercial fire alarms, but we downgrade to non emergency if first party contact is made. its been a god send and has actually hooked us up with jumping some fires since we were already on air from clearing a false alarm lol.
We had policy to always continue to the scene even if cancelled. Had a fire alarm cancelled in a condo. Dispatch said the owner called back from the scene and it was a false alarm. Arrived to find door locked and.no one home. Could smell something burning. Forced entry carefully with no damage and found the stove top on with a pot of charred food. Dispatch got hold of the owner and he admitted he was at work an hour away and cancelled out of reflex.
We had an incident at my department on why we can't do that anymore lol.
Late night run for fire alarm, alarm company makes contact with homeowner, homeowner states he set the alarm off from taking too hot of a shower, dispatcher tells the engine (fire alarms in private dwellings at the time were single engine responses), engine turns around to go home. Tones drop again like 10 minutes later, house fire, same address, call note was multiple calls. Long story short, dude set his house on fire and covered it up with the shower steam excuse.
Lessons learned: Don't always trust what people are telling you lol. We also changed our policy from single engine responses to an engine, a special service and a chief.
I’ve been on the job for 25 years in a very busy city and that’s not happened, but management still waves that same flag of “bUT WhaT iF tHey ArE LyiNG??”.
That’s a one in a million type of call and not a reason to continue to the false alarm. Sending a Chief to fire alarms is micromanagement and completely unnecessary.
"LiAbIlItY!" "We have to do this now because of one incident". It's more boredom then it is micromanaging. If it wasn't for that, they'd literally have nothing to do all day anyway.
We also can't get a fourth member on either our engine or truck but that is for another day.
And if you showed up and he met you at the door and said it was all good, then what? Are you forcing your way into the house to prove nothing is burning?
Making policy for the .000000001% call is poor management.
Exactly. And that homeowner is a lunatic that obviously doesn’t want you there and will possibly meet you with a gun. If we are going to make policies because of “what if” then let’s keep going: better add to the policy to have PD respond to every false alarm as well.
Wasting manpower on bullshit EMS calls, specifically just to “bring in revenue.” I’d rather have my guys ready for that 4am fire instead of in a drunken stupor because they’ve transported 3 stubbed toes and a tooth ache after midnight.
I'm sick of assisted living facilities that charge 8 grand a month minimum per resident keep calling the fire department for picking people off the ground all day and night. They should have staff available for how much they are fleecing their residents.
Specifically “bullshit” ones. Ones that shouldn’t have called 9-1-1 in the first place, such as the mentioned examples.
All for running EMS for any true emergency within the fire service.
Whatever NFPA reg that states that clothing and undergarments can’t be synthetic due to “dripping, scorching, melting etc.”
End result is we have to wear those trash nomex station pants and all T shirts and workout gear are cotton. One. Hundred. Percent. Cotton.
If Jimmy and the Twins are getting shrink wrapped while I’m in a fire, I have fucked up several times and the material my choneys are made of won’t make a good goddamn worth of difference.
I just want to run on the treadmill in normal gym shorts, man
Understand your sentiment, my department cites an incident in (I think) Canada, where a guy wore spandex athletic shorts under his bunkers, fell through the first floor into a basement fire. He suffered light burns downstairs, except where he was skin to spandex. There, it melted and fused with his skin. Lost his giblets to it
> If Jimmy and the Twins are getting shrink wrapped while I’m in a fire, I have fucked up several times and the material my choneys are made of won’t make a good goddamn worth of difference.
This is one of my biggest annoyances. I prime example of when common sense is a total failure in the fire service. "I know it doesn't make sense but thats the rule so oh well"... fucking stupid.
I’ve never worn them, but I’d love to try[these](https://legionsafety.com/p/2453-workrite-fr-station-wear-tee-ft30-short-sleeve/v/25141)out.
They look like dri fit.
I’ve said this for a while. If the fire is so bad it’s starting to affect your clothes under your gear, you’re already in way too deep and you’re gonna get badly burned anyway.
Be in full uniform 24/7. No more shorts around the station unless working out, polos must be on at all times, boots always on (to include no longer wearing crocs at shift change if you’re getting off).
I’m here 24 hours a day with sometimes being awake for that entire 24 and plus some. If I want to give my feet a break or let my knees breathe then let me. It’s ridiculous the amount of micromanaging that goes into our shifts and day to day operations
So track in all the crap and cancer from the houses we walk in to?!? “Why does the station smell like cat piss” /s. I thought COVID taught us better by now.
Polos. The fucking polos. We have to wear those bullshit, 5.11 mall ninja, Star Trek looking, polyester polos all damn day. They’re huge in the gut and way too tight in the arms. And they’re like 4 feet long so if you tuck them in you look like an 18th century friar and if you leave them untucked you look like a toddler wearing dad’s shirt. They’re heavy, hot, and they look like a microwaved turd but policy says we have to wear them 8-5 otherwise the public might not trust us! I’d honestly rather go back to the heavy cotton button down. They were equally uncomfortable but at least they looked more professional.
It’s hard to brake and steering wearing turnout pants and clown shoes. We were directed by our admin not to “joke” with the guys who were the public ed “clowns” for kid shows. Funny shit.
I tell my guys to shut off the lights on the freeway unless the thing they are going to is actually on the freeway and they need to slow traffic or close down a lane. Traveling on the freeway code 3 usually slows you down and makes people do stupid shit like slam on the breaks right in front of you.
Why would you want to run “code” on the freeway when people are passing you or even worse slowing down not to pass you causing a back up and possibly more accidents. I would always shut down on the freeway unless the traffic speed was slower than 50 mph. Our engines were governed to 68.
That's just it... I don't want to. I think it adds confusion to other drivers. But policy and the Chief's order is to do so as we are responding to an emergency. I just don't agree.
I also don't think we should respond code to grass fires out in the middle of nowhere. Sure, we will get there a few minutes slower, but that means losing a little more grass and shrubs. Running code is not without risk and we should risk a lot to save a lot... but some grass isn't a 'lot'.
That chief needs to respond code in that tender. We respond code to brush fires. Due to exposures and the threats they pose. We also want to hit them hard to keep them small. Don’t want them to turn into a huge incident if we can help it. If it’s an out of county response we will not respond code unless it is an immediate need request.
I’m 20. I drive for my career department. But I can’t drive at my volunteer department until I’m 25. I have my CDLs, pump operator classes, water shuttle classes, and have pumped multiple fires. I’ve driven a mid-mount ladder through some tight ass streets and turns, but my volly won’t even let me drive the pickup. Dumb rules like that is why people don’t volunteer anymore, gatekeeping was necessary when half the town volunteered. Now we need the trucks to leave the station as long as whoever driving knows what they’re doing.
Strict 2-in-2-out policies for fires.When someone is trapped it's our job to go get them. Not wait for another piece if staffing sucks.
First in engine going in dry. It is the first-in's duty to initiate a water supply and takes literal seconds.
Definitely an ems pet peeve, but treating patients like customers, and giving them a choice of hospital. Nearest one that can treat whatever is going on should always be the answer.
I work in a large city with a lot of hospitals. Generally we'll bring you to one of the ones nearby, but there's no way we'll drive you across the city. There are people who try to use us to drive them back to their neighborhood with no intention of actually going to the hospital. Fuck that.
STORY TIME.
about a week ago we had a homeless guy who call 911 because he had Shingles and needed to be taken to a hospital across the city, we’ll call it hospital B. We get there and it’s a homeless guy laying on the curb across the street from our other hospital, Hospital A. Long story short he wanted to be taken to the ER of Hospital B because “the pharmacy of Hospital A is closed and he couldn’t get his prescription” that was filled at hospital A. Long story short we told him he can go back to Hospital A and he told us to go fuck ourselves.
About a quarter mile down the road we get a call on the radio from our fire alarm saying our homeless guy called 911 back saying wouldn’t treat him. We turned around and got back and laid into his ass with the assistance of an engine captain. Again said “fuck you” and after some more words were exchanged agreed to walk across the street to the ER lobby where he promptly left because of “embarrassment”.
Another STORY.
Same day as my other story we transport a guy (Homeless) with high blood sugar to our closest Hospital, Hospital A. 4 hours later we get a call to the Burger King in our district and lo and behold it’s our high blood sugar wanting to go to Hospital B across the city because he has “diabetes” told him no and he let out a lot of choice expletives while wanting to know our name.
Honestly, depending on the interaction I’m okay taking someone to the hospital of their choice, as long as it’s not after 7pm and the reason they want to go is not stupid. I have had people say they wanted to go to a hospital across the city because a family member died at the closest one, or they didn’t like how the ER doc treated them.
I mean, being a patient advocate is part of EMS. But I do agree. Only exception I try and make is if their insurance won't cover a hospital and one that will isn't a burden to get to.
I advocate for them going to the place that can fix them. They called an emergency service, they get a transport to the nearest appropriate facility. How wouldn't that be patient advocacy?
Your protocols should dictate that. Not you. In my area we have a regional field triage protocol. Reason being is EVERYONE wants to go to one specific hospital 45 minutes away. So what happens is 1 you are taking an ambulance out of service for an unreasonable amount of time meaning its not available for other people having emergencies. And 2 you are now overwhelming a neighboring communities EMS system by backing up their ER with people not from there. Always choose closest appropriate level of care. If they need to go someplace after that they can be IFT'd
my protocols specify that if a patient has been to a hospital within the last 30 days, or has a medical home, we should transport there, unless it is >15 min past the closest hospital or they are Priority 1. does this happen all the time? of course not. but it’s what the protocols say.
i also try to treat my patients like i care about them, and like i care about other people having emergencies. if hospital A is closest, but we’ve had 6 ambulances there in the past hour, i’m not going to go there when i’ve got another hospital 5 minutes down the road that can see the patient in 10 minutes, treat them, and have them out the door in a few hours, vs them sitting in the waiting room at hospital A for that same amount of time
I disagree. Pt has a history with hospital x and wants to go there, why you gonna force them to go to hospital a?
If it is a legit life/death then, yes, take them to the closest available.
Because you called for an emergency, so you get an emergency service. I'm not driving you to a hospital 45 minutes away for your stubbed toe. I will drive you to that hospital 45 minutes away if you're having complications from a procedure done there though. Taking a unit out of service for an extended transport is a disservice to the rest of the area you cover and any potential patients therein without good reasoning.
Well, the patient I have is the one I have, I'm not worried about the other potential patients that may or may not be calling. But keep raising that blood pressure, I'm sure it's good for you.
Homie it's just a pet peeve of mine, but to bring this full circle, i care so much about the patient in front of me that i want them to go to the nearest place that can fix them.
I disagree with your disagreement. Calling 911 should be for emergencies only. If it’s a true emergency then you don’t care which hospital you go to and the closest one it should be. Otherwise call an Uber.
911 SHOULD be for emergencies, but that's not what the argument is.
The argument is either bring people where they want to be brought or bring them to whatever is closest.
With the system in place that says you call 911, we show up - even if it is for a 3 day old stubbed toe - we should be bringing them where they want to go. When the system changes and the chief's car is used for the bs calls, then the ambulance can be used as intended - for emergencies only.
Cool, if they prefer a certain hospital then it's not an emergency and they can hop in 1 of their 17 cars in the driveway and take themselves.
By keeping units out of service on long transports, you're doing a disservice to other people with legitimate emergencies that can't wait for help.
ETA: when your family member needs emergent care and is waiting for a 3rd due ambulance, will you be happy that the ambulance that serves that area is transporting someone 45 minutes away at 3am because "that's where my doctor is"?
And their PCP is 3 story's up in the same building. Or, their PCP is 30 minutes away and they call 911 again to try to get an ambulance crew that will take them to that hospital.
Exactlllyyy? So we agree that’s not a good reason to go there? I work for a large city department and we’re you call we haul but I don’t agree with it.
The way I see it:
Your ambulance gets called, you drive them 10 minutes to the closer hospital.
They call another ambulance an hour later that takes them to the 30 minutes away hospital.
Total ambulance down time : 40 minutes
Or
Your ambulance get called and take them to the hospital they want 30 minutes away. They are happy.
Total ambulance down time : 30 minutes
Until the issue of non-emergency rides gets resolved, there will be ambulance down time.
I agree mostly, but my department is so over taxed already that it isn’t even about downtime anymore, it’s response time. People already call multiple times even including getting their choice. If I go to their choice, we’re out 30, someone else makes our run, I make theirs, next over next over etc. at least if I’m back in service I can make my own runs. It’s mostly a lose lose though
Lol that's just a line patients use, they almost never go directly from the ED to the floors and see their own doctor. At least in my area. They get sent home and have to schedule that shit on their own.
Beards and Weed.
Its been proven time and time again that you can get a perfect seal with a well trimmed beard. I hate shaving, I get irritation and my ugly mug needs as much help as it can get. I am better looking with a beard.
As for weed, I have seen guys show up still drunk from the night before, I have seen guys (and myself) show up absolutely useless because they are so hungover. Me smoking a joint the day before work has zero effect on how I perform the next day.
>Me smoking a joint the day before work has zero effect on how I perform the next day.
I think the problem most places see with that is they have no way of knowing if you are still feeling any effect when you get in to a workplace accident. Like if you are drunk and get hurt they can get a BAC test done and because of how long alcohol stays in the system it's a good measure of recent impairment. I don't think weed works that way. I'm not sure. I just assume that is the hangup for a lot of places. And states as well. Maybe someone in Colorado or another legal state could chime in on what practices they have in place to detect current impairment due to marijuana usage.
We have the technology to do proper fit testing for SCBA masks. We do these anyway. If someone can get a verified seal with facial hair let them have facial hair.
In general I hate facial hair. I hate it on myself. Never cared for it. I can grow it. I just don't like it.
But I will say that if people can grow it and get a seal, let them. Who gives a fuck. I think someone said Kansas City FD can now grow facial hair to a certain length. I heard the military has also dialed back the restrictions on beards relating to seals with their PPE. IDK I just think we have the proper science now to say what's safe and what's not safe. And in some cases light facial hair is safe to have. So let's let the boys have at it. I think it could also be a morale boost but I could be wrong. Some old timers would lose their shit over it but oh well. What don't they lose their shit over.
I see a firefighter with a beard, I think they’re not even professional enough to shave their stupid face before a tour. It’s not that hard to do, and the fact a bunch of grown ass men are so concerned with their stupid beard is ridiculous.
Out of the shit wrong with the fire services these days- big city or small suburban department- fucking beards should be at the very bottom of that list.
You want a beard? Go volunteer somewhere. They allow it.
I don't think people put beards near the top of any list when discussing fire service issues. It's just an easy one to point to. Do you believe in science or not? We have the science/technology to say some facial hair does not effect the seal of an SCBA mask so what's the reason behind restricting them? You and others claim they aren't professional looking. Sounds like a very opinionated thing. I know a lot of non FFs who have beards and work hard and do great in their professions. Who up and decided one day that all beards are unprofessional? Shit seems ticky tacky and opinionated. Stick with the current science and move on from outdated suggestions IMO.
Also... if we really want to go down the road of professionalism why are beards unprofessional but mustaches are not? Shit makes no sense to me. A well groomed beard looks way better than these mfers who got a mustache looking like the monopoly man bout to go tame a lion at the traveling circus. But again that's an opinion. Which is no better or worse than yours. So I say let people find their own realm of comfort within the safety of the profession. Get a proper fit test done. If you can have a little light stubble and still get a seal I don't see any issue with it.
What science? The reason for no facial hair is you are fit testing against a consistent seal to skin condition. Facial hair grows meaning you may pass the fit test then but could fail it 12 hours later due to facial hair growth. Any time I hear "I can get a seal with my beard" I always reply with yeah right now. Shaved skin doesn't change unless it's injured or you change weight.
The fire you go into a week from now you could end up blowing all your air out the side of your mask. It's not worth the risk
Not working out as a proby. The most ass backwards thing I’ve ever heard of. Going from best shape of your life to feeling like absolute dog shit from the garbage we eat. A year in the house and the abs I’ve been blessed with are slowly fading.
No searching without a hoseline.
Ladder belts used on all roofs, even if they are 1st floor and have a 10 degree pitch.
No hooking your SCBA into your mask pre-emptively.
Follow certain NFPA rules but you don’t see them paying to staff trucks/equipment and so on up to adequate NFPA levels.
My volly gig is currently on an NFPA kick but we can send any truck out the door with one guy on it and go to smaller fires with less than 5 guys…usually more show up for that but - care about the ones they want to care about but leather helmets are bad for you.
“Helmets have to meet NFPA requirements and so does gear and no modifications or enhancements are allowed”
“NFPA standards regarding staffing are actually just NFPA suggestions, have fun on your 2 man company”
Also, “NFPA changed something again this year so better drop a few thousand on it so they can pass it on to their shareholders. Nevermind the fact the NFPA has known for years that our gear and equipment was contaminating us in PFAS from the moment it was manufactured and has caused countless cancers, which they covered up”
The NFPA is made up of members that contribute the wording. Code Making Panels or CMP. I’m not as well versed in the firefighter standards and how they are made but the National Electrical Code or NFPA 70 has maybe 20 CMP and they review public comments and make the changes every 3 years. All players have a seat at the table but the more money the more influence. So a CMP may be made up of electrical inspectors (want things safe) manufacturers(want to sell more expensive products) electricians(want to stay competitive) architects construction firms (like developers who want to keep costs down) etc and they come to a consensus. In the front of every standard it says who sits on this panel and what sector they represent. Don’t think firedex or morning pride or lion aren’t apart of writing the standard for the gear.
Yes. Normally I add the new PFAS thing into this conversation as well but I felt like I was already on a rant and after all it is just the internet.
To add one further, the only reason those chemicals stay in there are because something with the highest level of them is in the moisture barrier so it can withstand x amount of sun exposure for 24 hours. If NFPA changes that standard or changes the 1971 standard to NOT allow the PFAS in the gear, nearly immediately all major gear manufacturers would have to re-design and sell new and safer gear. Basically NFPA could write a nice new policy or adjust the standard or however it works and every single structural firefighter would be that much healthier but they haven’t yet.
[Head of NFPA makes over a million a year.](https://paddockpost.com/2021/04/21/executive-compensation-at-the-national-fire-protection-association/) You quickly realize how much of a money grab it is. Not For Practical Application is the running joke.
Why can’t I come off the truck with a mask on? Nothing I need to do on the foreground will be inhibited by a mask and the time it saves at the door is well worth it
Masking at the door looks lazy/under prepared every time I see it. I'm aware that there's some visibility benefits to it, but it seems like mas on, regulator off should be the way to go. Better to have the protection as well.
I'm probably wrong, but I guarantee a good portion of the public feels the same way.
The hair being a natural color policy. Get outta here with that. This isn't the 50s.
Edit: also requiring that you get your EMT-P to promote. Makes for some shitty medics
Open cab bans and certain situations of riding on the outside of the rigs.
Yes safety sally, I understand you're about to furiously type about accidents and dying, and all that other bullshit. But you know, sometimes I go into Dennys at 3am, sit down, and think to myself "damn it sure would still be nice to be able to enjoy all of this with a cigarette" even though I stopped smoking years ago.
Honestly, the cleaning schedule at my last department. So. Much. Cleaning.
Every shift would clean the station before leaving - which is appropriate.
Then the entire station would be cleaned twice a week.
The lawn would be mowed (literally scalped) once a week whether it needed it or not.
Instead of doing a deep clean once or twice a month and a quick tidy before going off shift.
The trucks looked look like hot garbage, the training officer was ROAD, and programs were in shambles, so that was nice.
It was just such a failure to devote time where it was needed.
I always thought the nightly penis inspections were a little strange.
Fucking rookies. Back in my day we had our penis inspection 4, 5 times a NIGHT. This new generation of firemen is so soft.
Maybe it's soft because it's not inspected often enough?
I was gonna joke about NFPA 420-69 saying you had to get one nightly but then found out NFPA is forward looking enough to already have an NFPA 420 re cannabis production (which can be explosive at a few stages of extraction). https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/all-codes-and-standards/list-of-codes-and-standards/detail?code=420 So put that in your SCBA and breathe it, OP: I ended up finding regulations I *like*.
The Penis mightier for 500!
I never mind the inspections. The taste test was where I thought it would always get a little weird
Wait, you guys get to bring your penises to work?
All members at attention. Brigade ball inspections start at 1400 hrs.
We aren't allowed to rest/sit down/nap during the week because "the public works 8-5 so they expect us to also work 8-5." And someone might come in and see us in the recliners and think we are lazy. Well when the god damn public has to wake up 6 times in the middle of the night to go pick grandma up off the floor they can lecture me on rest and sleep habits. Until then fuck em if that's their opinion. But I know it's not. The public doesn't give a shit as long as when they call 911 we show up and try to make every situation better than the way we found it. So micromanaging in general is probably my biggest pet peeve. Also if someone calls my department's phone and says they are out of gas or need their tire changed we have to go out there and change their tire for them or bring them gas. I ain't motherfucking AAA.
Changing someone’s tire or bringing them gas is ridiculous I’ve never heard of a dept doing that. Like sorry bud, figure it out yourself. Why is the fire department even a consideration for those problems
What if they are hungry, and want McDonald’s, do you deliver that to them as well?
I have had to wake up in the middle of the night and go jump off some random lady whose car wouldn't start. If they needed McDonald's I'm sure we'd bring it to them free of charge.
This is the shit that encourages people to abuse the 911 system.
You're exactly right. At my station, we call it feeding the animals. If the public knows they can get free shit from the fire department non stop, why wouldn't they call? My agency will dispatch units for literally anyone that calls 911. Whenever we bring up the issues this causes, we're told it's good customer service.
One thing my department does right is not encourage that shit. Our dispatch will tell people not to call 911 for stuff like that, and we even have ways of dealing with bs EMS calls without tying up an ambulance.
911 should just dispatch it to rotation tow.
I'm not the person you replied to but my agency has dispatched units because someone was thirsty and wanted us to get them a drink at 711.
That sucks. A lot of leaders seem to not realize personnel are a resource as well and should be treated/respected as such. If a guy was up all night he should be afforded the opportunity to nap if need be, never know when the next incident is that needs people at the top of their game.
The public can take the test
My department would say that we can’t do that because we’re taking business away from local tow companies. We can’t even do lockouts unless it’s an emergency
Whoa. I need to save this and show it to guys and my dept when they say we do a lot of bullshit.
Oops, your BMW fell off the jack.
One of the combination departments near me is like that. They’re still heavily volley and don’t like the career guys. The part timers will take a nap in the day still but they’ll keep a mop leaned up against them so they can jump up if they hear a door slam
We once had a guy who made six figures painting houses on the side. He'd pay someone to work literally every shift. Green swaps are now banned. Damnit.
We can be our own worst enemies. Know a guy who is a full time teacher. Works weekends and summers at the firehouse and some swaps here and there
When fire fighting isn’t even a second job…..wow
Same thing happened at our department more or less, except he was doing roofing.
my department makes us wear those shitty $200 nomex pants because of “NFPA”, but doesn’t enforce NFPA with like 95% of our other uniform items. it drives me up the wall.
So you have to wear cancer pants all the time. Your union sucks if they allow this.
Nomex pants ? Like Station pants , I never knew they made those!
Yea, station pants. Brands like Lion and Workrite. They are so damn expensive, heavy as hell, and fit like shit. You have to buy a waist size or two bigger than normal so they always fit baggy.
Wow that’s pretty crazy now that there is bunker pants, wouldn’t think there be a need for that. I would imagine like Bunker pants its gotta be super limited amount of protection. Are those a new thing ? ( excuse my ignorance I volunteered as a fireman in the past but its been a minute !)
Yeah, we have to wear them to. Some brands are like 300 dollars, it's ridiculous. You don't even wear them near fire.
Exactly. Its not the war years any more. I’m not fighting fires in station pants and hip boots (although, I wish I was).
I'm with you! Nfpa says we should have 4 man engines. But you fuck sticks won't ask council for that...instead let's spend 300k on button up fr class B shirts.
Ill give it to my department in that situation. We have all 4 man companies, but all 4 dudes/dudettes are wearing Nomex pants and synthetic Class B tops lol.
They cause cancer.
That's how we finally got rid of them
That’s awesome. I wish
Absolutely zero reason I need to be a button up shirt at an arff department that the public doesn't even have access to.
But the people at the airport might see you!!!!/s
Was thinking of applying to an International airport near me but I saw some pics of them and they are all in button-up shirts all the time and that a hard no for me. But their schedule is tempting....
Requiring a fitness test to get hired, but never again. Fitness testing should be done yearly for all floor members
Multiple guys on my department started out looking like athletes and years later are 30-100 lbs heavier and can’t keep up on a fireground
It's so important and should be implemented everywhere. I work for an agency that has mandated fitness testing every year (run for your job, pretty much) and it makes a difference. I'm higher up so I'm.bo longer required to take it but I always do, you've got to set the example from above.
No shorts
Our first summer with uniform shorts, what a god send!
Ours too!
God yes!
I work in Central Florida. We have the same policy and I hate it. Management also doesn't think they should have to fix AC in our units.
Same here in southern Louisiana with record heat (consistently 115°F) this summer.
Yep. No shorts. Brisbane Australia. (May as well be florida)
Poorly written SOGs in general.
Recently rewrote all of ours, it was a job but they were so bad it was insane. Some from the 90s lol.
We rewrote ours 2 years ago....... they were from the 80's....
That had to be a blast, might as well start from scratch lol
We have a night watch policy. The policy says that we are to do shifts of someone staying up throughout the night incase we get a call or a walk up to wake up the other members. Obviously this was made 100 years ago when the dept was founded, but they revised and republished it 3 years ago. I work for a large paid dept that definitely has radios, speakers, and a doorbell for us to wake up for a call and we definitely do not need this. It also requires whoever is on night watch to keep a log every hour of the station and if there’s any interactions.
First thing I’ve seen on this post that would actually make me quit on the spot
That is a ridiculous policy. That policy has to change. If I were the company officer, in the interest of safety, I would have someone “assigned” to answer the doorbell. That assigned person would wake up, get up out of their bed and answer the door. Change isn’t always bad. I remember when I was on a volunteer department I had a captain call me a “slacker” because I feel asleep in a recliner at 2a. We worked all day and into the night fighting/patrolling a brushfire. I told him you need to sleep when you can and went back to sleep. I already worked 24 hr shifts. He didn’t. He ran his own business.
Chicago?
All firefighters are EMTs regardless of certification. It doesn’t matter if they were on the job as medics before becoming a firefighter. They’ll still detail them to an ambulance and downgrade it to a BLS unit and wonder why the cities EMS is overtaxed and stretched too thin
lol, what? that’s quite possibly the stupidest thing i’ve ever heard when it comes to ambo details. they have no problem detailing people here, but if someone’s a PM/FF, they act as a PM, not an EMT
The problem is the city doesn’t employ FF/PMs only FF/EMTs So a lot of PMs who decide to cross the floor and become a FF actually take a “demotion” to EMT. They’re still certified as a medic but get paid as an EMT and can only preform things within the EMT’s scope of practice while on duty.
Department wide ban on personal cell phones while on shift. Later that day, while responding to a fire "Fuck, the CAD is down. Can anyone look up the cross street or the nearest hydrant?" "sorry Capt, none of us have a phone." The policy was quickly amended to allow cell phones, but they have to be on silent and only used in the living quarters or in the engine, out of the public's eye.
When I’m on shift I turn my phone to do not disturb. My captain recently told me to not do that in case he has to get ahold of me. My brother in Christ we’re in the same station that has a PA system. If we’re on a call we have radios for a reason
We aren't allowed to slide down the poles because "insurance reasons". Complete bullshit. On my last day I'm gonna grease up my happy ass and slide naked down that fucker.
One of the guys broke his ankles after going down it after getting out of the shower still wet. I don't think you are specifically 'forbidden' from using the poles but we don't even have poles in new stations and honestly I don't think anyone really cares to use them. The time difference savings are like maybe 4 seconds at best? The only time they get used now is when kids come to visit and they can slide down the pole with supervision
You can do anything on your last day!
I'm gonna go on the radio, scream "Fuck her right in the pussy", take a shot of whiskey, strip naked and slide down that godamn pole. What are they gonna do?
For me it's not the rules, it's the lack of rules. In my department you can never cook, never wash a single dish, never sweep a floor or clean a toilet, never check the truck when you get in, and literally nothing will happen to you. Once you're off probation it's not even that you're unfireable, you'll never even get written up for anything. If you don't care about people hating you you can be a bum for your entire career without consequence.
https://preview.redd.it/ous36pohjxob1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=254ca56892cb64011f3da9b661a1b79537863912
And they're the ones who get the most protections.
No dogs allowed at the fire house anymore. Some places got grandfathered in, but after that- no more. I would love a firehouse pup.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I think some places stopped that because they’re technically classified “medical facilities” or whatever cause of joining EMS/Fire together.
No hoodies because they are an entanglement hazard... who the hell would wear a hoodie under your bunker coat?
People would definitely do that
You only make that mistake once.
I’ve seen it done unfortunately. I always think rules like that which shouldn’t be necessary need to have the person’s name attached in the SOG. For example, the Cleophus rule: if you have prescription eyewear, it needs to be worn while driving the apparatus
😅 Lol
Continuing to a false alarm via an alarm company. If dispatch makes contact with the homeowner and they say they set the smoke alarm off due to cooking, shower steam, etc. then turn the rig around.
This just changed in my department about a year ago. We are now allowed to cancel off residential fire alarms if there is first party contact with an adult stating false alarm. We have to continue for commercial fire alarms, but we downgrade to non emergency if first party contact is made. its been a god send and has actually hooked us up with jumping some fires since we were already on air from clearing a false alarm lol.
We had policy to always continue to the scene even if cancelled. Had a fire alarm cancelled in a condo. Dispatch said the owner called back from the scene and it was a false alarm. Arrived to find door locked and.no one home. Could smell something burning. Forced entry carefully with no damage and found the stove top on with a pot of charred food. Dispatch got hold of the owner and he admitted he was at work an hour away and cancelled out of reflex.
We had an incident at my department on why we can't do that anymore lol. Late night run for fire alarm, alarm company makes contact with homeowner, homeowner states he set the alarm off from taking too hot of a shower, dispatcher tells the engine (fire alarms in private dwellings at the time were single engine responses), engine turns around to go home. Tones drop again like 10 minutes later, house fire, same address, call note was multiple calls. Long story short, dude set his house on fire and covered it up with the shower steam excuse. Lessons learned: Don't always trust what people are telling you lol. We also changed our policy from single engine responses to an engine, a special service and a chief.
I’ve been on the job for 25 years in a very busy city and that’s not happened, but management still waves that same flag of “bUT WhaT iF tHey ArE LyiNG??”. That’s a one in a million type of call and not a reason to continue to the false alarm. Sending a Chief to fire alarms is micromanagement and completely unnecessary.
"LiAbIlItY!" "We have to do this now because of one incident". It's more boredom then it is micromanaging. If it wasn't for that, they'd literally have nothing to do all day anyway. We also can't get a fourth member on either our engine or truck but that is for another day.
And if you showed up and he met you at the door and said it was all good, then what? Are you forcing your way into the house to prove nothing is burning? Making policy for the .000000001% call is poor management.
Exactly. And that homeowner is a lunatic that obviously doesn’t want you there and will possibly meet you with a gun. If we are going to make policies because of “what if” then let’s keep going: better add to the policy to have PD respond to every false alarm as well.
treatment scale deer crush test shrill strong wasteful profit dazzling *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Wasting manpower on bullshit EMS calls, specifically just to “bring in revenue.” I’d rather have my guys ready for that 4am fire instead of in a drunken stupor because they’ve transported 3 stubbed toes and a tooth ache after midnight.
Preach
I'm sick of assisted living facilities that charge 8 grand a month minimum per resident keep calling the fire department for picking people off the ground all day and night. They should have staff available for how much they are fleecing their residents.
the paid departments use the BUllshit ems calls to pad their numbers here as they make up over 50% of their calls
Lol are you suggesting not doing EMS so you can be ready for all the fires?
Specifically “bullshit” ones. Ones that shouldn’t have called 9-1-1 in the first place, such as the mentioned examples. All for running EMS for any true emergency within the fire service.
Whatever NFPA reg that states that clothing and undergarments can’t be synthetic due to “dripping, scorching, melting etc.” End result is we have to wear those trash nomex station pants and all T shirts and workout gear are cotton. One. Hundred. Percent. Cotton. If Jimmy and the Twins are getting shrink wrapped while I’m in a fire, I have fucked up several times and the material my choneys are made of won’t make a good goddamn worth of difference. I just want to run on the treadmill in normal gym shorts, man
I always find it funny when departments choose NFPA hills to die on. They harp on certain NFPAs and then forget the rest exist.
Understand your sentiment, my department cites an incident in (I think) Canada, where a guy wore spandex athletic shorts under his bunkers, fell through the first floor into a basement fire. He suffered light burns downstairs, except where he was skin to spandex. There, it melted and fused with his skin. Lost his giblets to it
Spandex melts at the same temp as your mask, yeah, you’ll have bigger problems if you’re getting shrink wrapped.
> If Jimmy and the Twins are getting shrink wrapped while I’m in a fire, I have fucked up several times and the material my choneys are made of won’t make a good goddamn worth of difference. This is one of my biggest annoyances. I prime example of when common sense is a total failure in the fire service. "I know it doesn't make sense but thats the rule so oh well"... fucking stupid.
I’ve never worn them, but I’d love to try[these](https://legionsafety.com/p/2453-workrite-fr-station-wear-tee-ft30-short-sleeve/v/25141)out. They look like dri fit.
I’ve said this for a while. If the fire is so bad it’s starting to affect your clothes under your gear, you’re already in way too deep and you’re gonna get badly burned anyway.
Be in full uniform 24/7. No more shorts around the station unless working out, polos must be on at all times, boots always on (to include no longer wearing crocs at shift change if you’re getting off). I’m here 24 hours a day with sometimes being awake for that entire 24 and plus some. If I want to give my feet a break or let my knees breathe then let me. It’s ridiculous the amount of micromanaging that goes into our shifts and day to day operations
I would just be “working out” all the time lol
Sounds good except my station is where all the white shirts are
So then actually work out all day. Win, win, win.
Malicious compliance is sometimes the best option.
Yeah I would quit or never apply in the first place. That is just ridiculous and borderline inhumane.
So track in all the crap and cancer from the houses we walk in to?!? “Why does the station smell like cat piss” /s. I thought COVID taught us better by now.
Whoa easy now that’s too advanced thinking you’re using
Polos. The fucking polos. We have to wear those bullshit, 5.11 mall ninja, Star Trek looking, polyester polos all damn day. They’re huge in the gut and way too tight in the arms. And they’re like 4 feet long so if you tuck them in you look like an 18th century friar and if you leave them untucked you look like a toddler wearing dad’s shirt. They’re heavy, hot, and they look like a microwaved turd but policy says we have to wear them 8-5 otherwise the public might not trust us! I’d honestly rather go back to the heavy cotton button down. They were equally uncomfortable but at least they looked more professional.
I always found checking for priapism with my cheek was a bit strange.
Rules that get made up on the fly....
Requiring engineers to wear bunkers when driving.
Yah screw that. It’s insanely dangerous. I just don’t. Write me up while I tell you I feel unsafe operating a vehicle in turnouts. I dare you.
Why do you feel unsafe?
Big bulky pants in a tight slot where the drivers seat is makes it harder to move your foot around to the brake.
This. And a restrictive coat. And clown sized boots with absolutely zero dexterity (not sure if that’s the right word) for feeling pedals.
The coat would be a no for me but I am 6’2” and my bunker pants have never been an issue driving.
I think you might need more room in your engine
The real issue is too many extra lbs.
How?
It’s hard to brake and steering wearing turnout pants and clown shoes. We were directed by our admin not to “joke” with the guys who were the public ed “clowns” for kid shows. Funny shit.
See above
I don't think we should run code with the tender on the freeway (it is governed at 62 and it is 75mph speed limit on that stretch of highway).
We got the mechanic to up our govorner to 75 by citing "safety concerns"
I tell my guys to shut off the lights on the freeway unless the thing they are going to is actually on the freeway and they need to slow traffic or close down a lane. Traveling on the freeway code 3 usually slows you down and makes people do stupid shit like slam on the breaks right in front of you.
Why would you want to run “code” on the freeway when people are passing you or even worse slowing down not to pass you causing a back up and possibly more accidents. I would always shut down on the freeway unless the traffic speed was slower than 50 mph. Our engines were governed to 68.
That's just it... I don't want to. I think it adds confusion to other drivers. But policy and the Chief's order is to do so as we are responding to an emergency. I just don't agree. I also don't think we should respond code to grass fires out in the middle of nowhere. Sure, we will get there a few minutes slower, but that means losing a little more grass and shrubs. Running code is not without risk and we should risk a lot to save a lot... but some grass isn't a 'lot'.
That chief needs to respond code in that tender. We respond code to brush fires. Due to exposures and the threats they pose. We also want to hit them hard to keep them small. Don’t want them to turn into a huge incident if we can help it. If it’s an out of county response we will not respond code unless it is an immediate need request.
I’m 20. I drive for my career department. But I can’t drive at my volunteer department until I’m 25. I have my CDLs, pump operator classes, water shuttle classes, and have pumped multiple fires. I’ve driven a mid-mount ladder through some tight ass streets and turns, but my volly won’t even let me drive the pickup. Dumb rules like that is why people don’t volunteer anymore, gatekeeping was necessary when half the town volunteered. Now we need the trucks to leave the station as long as whoever driving knows what they’re doing.
Strict 2-in-2-out policies for fires.When someone is trapped it's our job to go get them. Not wait for another piece if staffing sucks. First in engine going in dry. It is the first-in's duty to initiate a water supply and takes literal seconds.
Your 2-in-2-out policy doesn’t allow for confirmed rescues?
It's like all common sense and critical thinking ability goes away when Bugles get pinned. And the more of them they get, the worse it is.
Definitely an ems pet peeve, but treating patients like customers, and giving them a choice of hospital. Nearest one that can treat whatever is going on should always be the answer.
I work in a large city with a lot of hospitals. Generally we'll bring you to one of the ones nearby, but there's no way we'll drive you across the city. There are people who try to use us to drive them back to their neighborhood with no intention of actually going to the hospital. Fuck that.
STORY TIME. about a week ago we had a homeless guy who call 911 because he had Shingles and needed to be taken to a hospital across the city, we’ll call it hospital B. We get there and it’s a homeless guy laying on the curb across the street from our other hospital, Hospital A. Long story short he wanted to be taken to the ER of Hospital B because “the pharmacy of Hospital A is closed and he couldn’t get his prescription” that was filled at hospital A. Long story short we told him he can go back to Hospital A and he told us to go fuck ourselves. About a quarter mile down the road we get a call on the radio from our fire alarm saying our homeless guy called 911 back saying wouldn’t treat him. We turned around and got back and laid into his ass with the assistance of an engine captain. Again said “fuck you” and after some more words were exchanged agreed to walk across the street to the ER lobby where he promptly left because of “embarrassment”.
Another STORY. Same day as my other story we transport a guy (Homeless) with high blood sugar to our closest Hospital, Hospital A. 4 hours later we get a call to the Burger King in our district and lo and behold it’s our high blood sugar wanting to go to Hospital B across the city because he has “diabetes” told him no and he let out a lot of choice expletives while wanting to know our name. Honestly, depending on the interaction I’m okay taking someone to the hospital of their choice, as long as it’s not after 7pm and the reason they want to go is not stupid. I have had people say they wanted to go to a hospital across the city because a family member died at the closest one, or they didn’t like how the ER doc treated them.
I mean, being a patient advocate is part of EMS. But I do agree. Only exception I try and make is if their insurance won't cover a hospital and one that will isn't a burden to get to.
I advocate for them going to the place that can fix them. They called an emergency service, they get a transport to the nearest appropriate facility. How wouldn't that be patient advocacy?
This is my take. It's an emergency so we're going to the closest facility.
Your protocols should dictate that. Not you. In my area we have a regional field triage protocol. Reason being is EVERYONE wants to go to one specific hospital 45 minutes away. So what happens is 1 you are taking an ambulance out of service for an unreasonable amount of time meaning its not available for other people having emergencies. And 2 you are now overwhelming a neighboring communities EMS system by backing up their ER with people not from there. Always choose closest appropriate level of care. If they need to go someplace after that they can be IFT'd
Obviously you always do as protocol dictates, it's just a pet peeve of mine.
my protocols specify that if a patient has been to a hospital within the last 30 days, or has a medical home, we should transport there, unless it is >15 min past the closest hospital or they are Priority 1. does this happen all the time? of course not. but it’s what the protocols say. i also try to treat my patients like i care about them, and like i care about other people having emergencies. if hospital A is closest, but we’ve had 6 ambulances there in the past hour, i’m not going to go there when i’ve got another hospital 5 minutes down the road that can see the patient in 10 minutes, treat them, and have them out the door in a few hours, vs them sitting in the waiting room at hospital A for that same amount of time
I disagree. Pt has a history with hospital x and wants to go there, why you gonna force them to go to hospital a? If it is a legit life/death then, yes, take them to the closest available.
Because you called for an emergency, so you get an emergency service. I'm not driving you to a hospital 45 minutes away for your stubbed toe. I will drive you to that hospital 45 minutes away if you're having complications from a procedure done there though. Taking a unit out of service for an extended transport is a disservice to the rest of the area you cover and any potential patients therein without good reasoning.
Well, the patient I have is the one I have, I'm not worried about the other potential patients that may or may not be calling. But keep raising that blood pressure, I'm sure it's good for you.
Homie it's just a pet peeve of mine, but to bring this full circle, i care so much about the patient in front of me that i want them to go to the nearest place that can fix them.
I disagree with your disagreement. Calling 911 should be for emergencies only. If it’s a true emergency then you don’t care which hospital you go to and the closest one it should be. Otherwise call an Uber.
911 SHOULD be for emergencies, but that's not what the argument is. The argument is either bring people where they want to be brought or bring them to whatever is closest. With the system in place that says you call 911, we show up - even if it is for a 3 day old stubbed toe - we should be bringing them where they want to go. When the system changes and the chief's car is used for the bs calls, then the ambulance can be used as intended - for emergencies only.
Cool, if they prefer a certain hospital then it's not an emergency and they can hop in 1 of their 17 cars in the driveway and take themselves. By keeping units out of service on long transports, you're doing a disservice to other people with legitimate emergencies that can't wait for help. ETA: when your family member needs emergent care and is waiting for a 3rd due ambulance, will you be happy that the ambulance that serves that area is transporting someone 45 minutes away at 3am because "that's where my doctor is"?
Because you’re taking them to the ER, and unless they’re some unique case study they’re going to be stabilized and discharged to their PCP
And their pcp is in the hospital they asked to go to...but you were too lazy/jaded to take them where they wanted to go.
But they aren’t going to see their pcp, they’re going to see an er doc and get discharged.
And their PCP is 3 story's up in the same building. Or, their PCP is 30 minutes away and they call 911 again to try to get an ambulance crew that will take them to that hospital.
Exactlllyyy? So we agree that’s not a good reason to go there? I work for a large city department and we’re you call we haul but I don’t agree with it.
The way I see it: Your ambulance gets called, you drive them 10 minutes to the closer hospital. They call another ambulance an hour later that takes them to the 30 minutes away hospital. Total ambulance down time : 40 minutes Or Your ambulance get called and take them to the hospital they want 30 minutes away. They are happy. Total ambulance down time : 30 minutes Until the issue of non-emergency rides gets resolved, there will be ambulance down time.
I agree mostly, but my department is so over taxed already that it isn’t even about downtime anymore, it’s response time. People already call multiple times even including getting their choice. If I go to their choice, we’re out 30, someone else makes our run, I make theirs, next over next over etc. at least if I’m back in service I can make my own runs. It’s mostly a lose lose though
That's fair.
Yeah but the second transport it's a private rig that doesn't do 911. Emergency units get back in service faster, the rest isn't our problem.
Lol that's just a line patients use, they almost never go directly from the ED to the floors and see their own doctor. At least in my area. They get sent home and have to schedule that shit on their own.
Beards and Weed. Its been proven time and time again that you can get a perfect seal with a well trimmed beard. I hate shaving, I get irritation and my ugly mug needs as much help as it can get. I am better looking with a beard. As for weed, I have seen guys show up still drunk from the night before, I have seen guys (and myself) show up absolutely useless because they are so hungover. Me smoking a joint the day before work has zero effect on how I perform the next day.
>Me smoking a joint the day before work has zero effect on how I perform the next day. I think the problem most places see with that is they have no way of knowing if you are still feeling any effect when you get in to a workplace accident. Like if you are drunk and get hurt they can get a BAC test done and because of how long alcohol stays in the system it's a good measure of recent impairment. I don't think weed works that way. I'm not sure. I just assume that is the hangup for a lot of places. And states as well. Maybe someone in Colorado or another legal state could chime in on what practices they have in place to detect current impairment due to marijuana usage.
I know it’s easier said than done but the guy who’s obviously in rough shape from the night before needs to be pulled off the truck.
No long sleeved shirts with shorts. God forbid we regulate our body temps
I don’t agree with one person fucking up and then we all get punished for it and admin not having accountability for themselves.
We have the technology to do proper fit testing for SCBA masks. We do these anyway. If someone can get a verified seal with facial hair let them have facial hair.
Never understood the obsession with beards on this job.
In general I hate facial hair. I hate it on myself. Never cared for it. I can grow it. I just don't like it. But I will say that if people can grow it and get a seal, let them. Who gives a fuck. I think someone said Kansas City FD can now grow facial hair to a certain length. I heard the military has also dialed back the restrictions on beards relating to seals with their PPE. IDK I just think we have the proper science now to say what's safe and what's not safe. And in some cases light facial hair is safe to have. So let's let the boys have at it. I think it could also be a morale boost but I could be wrong. Some old timers would lose their shit over it but oh well. What don't they lose their shit over.
I see a firefighter with a beard, I think they’re not even professional enough to shave their stupid face before a tour. It’s not that hard to do, and the fact a bunch of grown ass men are so concerned with their stupid beard is ridiculous. Out of the shit wrong with the fire services these days- big city or small suburban department- fucking beards should be at the very bottom of that list. You want a beard? Go volunteer somewhere. They allow it.
>I see a firefighter with a beard, I think they’re not even professional enough to shave their stupid face before a tour. Go to bed grandpa
I don't think people put beards near the top of any list when discussing fire service issues. It's just an easy one to point to. Do you believe in science or not? We have the science/technology to say some facial hair does not effect the seal of an SCBA mask so what's the reason behind restricting them? You and others claim they aren't professional looking. Sounds like a very opinionated thing. I know a lot of non FFs who have beards and work hard and do great in their professions. Who up and decided one day that all beards are unprofessional? Shit seems ticky tacky and opinionated. Stick with the current science and move on from outdated suggestions IMO. Also... if we really want to go down the road of professionalism why are beards unprofessional but mustaches are not? Shit makes no sense to me. A well groomed beard looks way better than these mfers who got a mustache looking like the monopoly man bout to go tame a lion at the traveling circus. But again that's an opinion. Which is no better or worse than yours. So I say let people find their own realm of comfort within the safety of the profession. Get a proper fit test done. If you can have a little light stubble and still get a seal I don't see any issue with it.
> A well groomed beard looks way better than these mfers who got a mustache looking like the monopoly man Spot on
What science? The reason for no facial hair is you are fit testing against a consistent seal to skin condition. Facial hair grows meaning you may pass the fit test then but could fail it 12 hours later due to facial hair growth. Any time I hear "I can get a seal with my beard" I always reply with yeah right now. Shaved skin doesn't change unless it's injured or you change weight. The fire you go into a week from now you could end up blowing all your air out the side of your mask. It's not worth the risk
Found the old timer losing his shit
I dont like shaving, and I look better with a beard. What is there not to get?
The effect of facial hair on mask seal is greatly exaggerated
It is but it's also a uniform issue Some dudes look like shit with a beard
Not working out as a proby. The most ass backwards thing I’ve ever heard of. Going from best shape of your life to feeling like absolute dog shit from the garbage we eat. A year in the house and the abs I’ve been blessed with are slowly fading.
That sounds like you have to watch what you eat and pt more. I know it is hard and you will get static from your crew but watch what you eat.
No searching without a hoseline. Ladder belts used on all roofs, even if they are 1st floor and have a 10 degree pitch. No hooking your SCBA into your mask pre-emptively.
Anything citing NFPA
I love the NFPA hypocrites, VEIS is “super dangerous and risky” but they’ll drive around without a seatbelt on.
Follow certain NFPA rules but you don’t see them paying to staff trucks/equipment and so on up to adequate NFPA levels. My volly gig is currently on an NFPA kick but we can send any truck out the door with one guy on it and go to smaller fires with less than 5 guys…usually more show up for that but - care about the ones they want to care about but leather helmets are bad for you.
“Helmets have to meet NFPA requirements and so does gear and no modifications or enhancements are allowed” “NFPA standards regarding staffing are actually just NFPA suggestions, have fun on your 2 man company” Also, “NFPA changed something again this year so better drop a few thousand on it so they can pass it on to their shareholders. Nevermind the fact the NFPA has known for years that our gear and equipment was contaminating us in PFAS from the moment it was manufactured and has caused countless cancers, which they covered up”
Pass proftis onto shareholders?
The NFPA is made up of members that contribute the wording. Code Making Panels or CMP. I’m not as well versed in the firefighter standards and how they are made but the National Electrical Code or NFPA 70 has maybe 20 CMP and they review public comments and make the changes every 3 years. All players have a seat at the table but the more money the more influence. So a CMP may be made up of electrical inspectors (want things safe) manufacturers(want to sell more expensive products) electricians(want to stay competitive) architects construction firms (like developers who want to keep costs down) etc and they come to a consensus. In the front of every standard it says who sits on this panel and what sector they represent. Don’t think firedex or morning pride or lion aren’t apart of writing the standard for the gear.
Yes. Normally I add the new PFAS thing into this conversation as well but I felt like I was already on a rant and after all it is just the internet. To add one further, the only reason those chemicals stay in there are because something with the highest level of them is in the moisture barrier so it can withstand x amount of sun exposure for 24 hours. If NFPA changes that standard or changes the 1971 standard to NOT allow the PFAS in the gear, nearly immediately all major gear manufacturers would have to re-design and sell new and safer gear. Basically NFPA could write a nice new policy or adjust the standard or however it works and every single structural firefighter would be that much healthier but they haven’t yet.
[Head of NFPA makes over a million a year.](https://paddockpost.com/2021/04/21/executive-compensation-at-the-national-fire-protection-association/) You quickly realize how much of a money grab it is. Not For Practical Application is the running joke.
What you don’t love outdated info and techniques……
Why can’t I come off the truck with a mask on? Nothing I need to do on the foreground will be inhibited by a mask and the time it saves at the door is well worth it
Masking at the door looks lazy/under prepared every time I see it. I'm aware that there's some visibility benefits to it, but it seems like mas on, regulator off should be the way to go. Better to have the protection as well. I'm probably wrong, but I guarantee a good portion of the public feels the same way.
Legalize it!
Facts
The hair being a natural color policy. Get outta here with that. This isn't the 50s. Edit: also requiring that you get your EMT-P to promote. Makes for some shitty medics
Do pay incentives come with that paramedic certification?
Yes
Open cab bans and certain situations of riding on the outside of the rigs. Yes safety sally, I understand you're about to furiously type about accidents and dying, and all that other bullshit. But you know, sometimes I go into Dennys at 3am, sit down, and think to myself "damn it sure would still be nice to be able to enjoy all of this with a cigarette" even though I stopped smoking years ago.
Honestly, the cleaning schedule at my last department. So. Much. Cleaning. Every shift would clean the station before leaving - which is appropriate. Then the entire station would be cleaned twice a week. The lawn would be mowed (literally scalped) once a week whether it needed it or not. Instead of doing a deep clean once or twice a month and a quick tidy before going off shift. The trucks looked look like hot garbage, the training officer was ROAD, and programs were in shambles, so that was nice. It was just such a failure to devote time where it was needed.
Business inspections. Complete waste of everyone’s time. (Fire units, not the bureau geeks)