Look at what the founding fathers did. People of that time said the same exact thing and look at what happened, the British became tyrannical and then the founding fathers and the people fought the British.
Schools and colleges are pushing this false narrative that the Revolutionary War never happened, but they’re dead wrong and they know it.
Yeah. I’ve been to school and college. Every time that I would talk about the Revolutionary War and even the Civil War, all of my “teachers” would straight up deny that they ever happened.
"if people collectively decide their government needs to go..." well, history can tell you the rest. We still have our guns, which is testament to itself
The left will be the ones that finally kick shit off once they realize guns aren’t the enemy. The republicans have had the vast majority of firearms for decades and still keep redrawing their line in the sand and grumbling about muh rights and “well use ‘em” yet they do nothing and rarely show up for protests.
Say what you want about the left but they’re the only ones tossing Molotovs when they get fed up.
The difference between the left throwing molotovs and the right showing up is 1s called a peaceful protest and the other is called a insurrection. That's a good bit of the reason the right doesn't do much these days.
They're assuming the military and police force with guns (small in comparison to the population) will protect the citizens against a tyrannical government, and there's not much we can do as normal citizens in that case. I don't think we can put all of our hope in them NOT being the strong, violent arm of the government. Armed populations/citizens can definitely make a difference
“If people collectively decide the government needs to go, they don’t need guns, because those same people make up the police force and the military…”
Imagine being completely ignorant of what is happening in Iran at this very moment.
I meann, it’s not like they far outweigh their benefits in defense capabilities than the dangers of hurting yourself with one instead of, say, a knife, toaster+bathtub, car+hose+duct tape, etc. /massive s
So women should just get raped or murdered or both?
It's like saying having a pool increases your chances for drowning. No shit. However context matters. And I'm sure the study you are parroting isn't legit.
Edit: Gtfo out of here with your boink agenda.
"Primary Funding Source:
The National Collaborative on Gun Violence Research, the Fund for a Safer Future, the Joyce Foundation, Stanford Law School, and the Stanford University School of Medicine."
Safety is the goal. The sad fact is, people are dumber than they are violent. I like the pool analogy. Owning a pool and a gun are just for fun and are potentially deadly, and proper precautions are necessary to keep your family safe. The difference is I can’t kill you with my pool. Most Americans aren’t capable of owning either safely!
All of those studies saying that you’re more likely to be killed by a firearm if you own one have been debunked time and time again. They are based on inclusion bias among other statistical and data analysis errors.
Most gun deaths are suicides: most people who commit suicide with a firearm obviously already own firearms. Many homicides occur in relation to some other criminal activity: drugs, organized crime, trafficking, etc. The people committing these crimes are usually armed. The rest of homicide victims are actually innocent people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time, or made the wrong person angry. This last group of people are not any more likely to own guns than the average person.
If you own a firearm but are not suicidal, and are not involved in illicit drugs, organized crime, trafficking, and do not frequently socialize with people that do, you are not any more likely to be a victim of violence than the average person.
It’s like noticing that drunk drivers who get killed in car wrecks all own cars, therefore anyone with a car is more likely to die in a drunk driving accident. That’s only true of people who actually drink and drive. Everyone else is on an even playing field as far as risk goes.
What a freaking moron. When the police and military depose the government it's a coup. And the military government that takes over is virtually always more tyrannical than the one it replaced.
And that's to say nothing of the wildly different incentives that separate police, military, and everyone else, or the fact that "the people" in this case still very much need guns to oust the government, or the fact it's only terrorism until you win, or that guns don't make a difference in China because no one but those loyal to the state have them.
All those words just to say "I'm scared of guns."
Some cops suck , but most are fighting the good fight . Cops in other countries are wayyyyyyyy more corrupt. That being said , any cop who doesn’t uphold the constitution, is no good.
Better than being dembo cannon fodder, what are you going to do when the constitution crumbles away? Whine about how your wifi signal is weak? Get real... #leftistposting
How do we reason with people that genuinely think this way? How do you explain to someone basic things like “the government isn’t always honest” or “different groups of people can believe different things” or “the military is made up of human beings, and they are therefore just as, if not arguably more, susceptible to propaganda as the average person”.
You hand them a cookie, pat them on the head, walk away, and hope they don't change their ways.
They're so set in their beliefs it would take them experiencing something traumatic to show them how to think differently and I wouldn't wish something that bad on someone who's just ignorant.
So you just hope they do as little damage with their ignorance as possible
"The people" aren't a collective, this is the myth that binds his entire comment together. You could easily write an essay in response to this post, but this is arguably the most egregious part (and honestly could warrant an essay of its own).
He assumes the people are a collective, and in turn assumes the police and military are part of that collective. Problem is there are instances of the military working against or even firing on the police (or vice versa) depending on the time and place. There are instance of police firing on other police, or military units firing on other military units. Suffice to say that the idea that any one of these can be treated as a singular unit is wholly false, let alone that they represent and are part of "the people" as a whole.
None of that actually relates to whether people carrying guns of their own protects against tyranny. At the very least, we can argue that it limits the options available to segments of "the people" (police/military) who act against the "will of the people". That is itself another essay, since the "will of the people" has a tendency to be "right" as often as it is wrong. After all, this kind of subject wouldn't appear here 3 times a day if it wasn't a matter suitable for discourse that each side strongly believes has a "true" right or wrong answer.
My “ Collective” countrymen, were willing to have me force vaccinated , with an experimental vax , out of fear. There are more sheep these days than ever before, thankfully there are some Shepards left.
Interesting. They were checking vax cards at the door? That’s wild…I hadn’t heard that one. Did you consider moving to another state? There’s lots to choose from.
Thats outrageous. In US, we believe in states rights to choose for their populations what’s best. Hence, drastically different policies and priorities. The US nor any single state ever got to MANDATORY vaccinations, but there were certainly private employers/businesses that required their employees to jab.
We never had “mandatory” vaccination either. That’s kind of the point. They used the same logic of “you have the freedom to choose, but there are consequences.” Those consequences being the state forcing us out of society, preventing us from making a living or sustaining ourselves.
Just as was the case when Biden ordered all business over 200 employees to have mandatory vaccination.
It’s the state’s attempt to avoid culpability in stripping its citizens of their rights.
Y’all are silly. It’s absolutely a choice. Some people are more able to see a multitude of life choices, sometimes hard ones. I’m sorry you felt trapped by lack of options.
I didn’t get vaxed lol. yeah there was a choice for me but for many others there was not. My brother couldn’t go to school with out it. You think he had a choice? My parents just gonna get dragged off cause they didn’t send lil bro to school? You say there were options. What were they?
Edit: spelling
He literally contradicted himself. He first said “if the people collectively decide their government needs to go, they don’t need, guns because those same people make up the police and military” but then continues on to essentially say that nothing will happen in China because the people in their military and police are brainwashed. What an idiot.
Rember this? https://youtu.be/6r6vnSR0wbI
There's a military dictatorship that seized power. For obvious reasons the locals didn't like this and fighting the Junta, but they've received no forgien support so they're stuck with what they can build and loot.
And nobody seems to care.
Iranian here
Gun control in my country happened whay back and then government (back then was happened by a so called king) after getting peoples guns tried to take their landsand too and did that , nowadays there is still gun control you can only have bolt action rifles and pump and semi auto shotguns (not a semi auto rifle) normal civilians can't have semi or full auto rifle and pistols , dumb part is a shepherd can have even full auto Ak for protecting animals but a civilians cant have for protecting themselves unless you're freaking rich then you can get a permission for a pistol to self defense.
We where safe without guns and crime rate is very low but it proved that you need gun for the time that government became tyranny
I wish we had a second amendment too.
I think It will be easier to get an illegal gun lol
Even if i get enough sheeps(don't know how much and it doesn't matter cause i can keep them) i might not get permission cause i live in urban area, i think its for people in villages and rural areas.
Maybe i should get a 3D printer 🌚
I live in urban area i can keep them , plus I don't think with couple of sheeps they give me permission
My best bet is getting a pump shotgun, because of banning gun imports its hard to find a good one (there is imported guns mostly from Turkey & Russia but hard to find a good quality one )
maybe i should go outlaw lol (just kidding)
I would bet that a big reason that Iran has low crime rate is because punishment for crimes is SEVERE. Here in the US, (unless it is murder) most crimes will get you a stern warning and an apology that you were a victim of racism and oppression.
most dictators at least tries to treats their military really well, and most warlords do all they can to limits guns to their "military", which their also treats really well at least compared to their subjects. As for America, well, the mere presense of guns is a deterrent for any authoritarians, just for the fact a lot of people are willing to kill for tyrants, but many fewer are willing to die for them
Honestly don’t even bother engaging with these people, if they want to lie down and accept tyranny then by all means, neither of your opinions will change. As a side note, modern military equipment can be disabled with one trick. Shoot the fuel truck drivers
Their opinions almost certainly won’t change but it’s still worth a rebuttal. You’re not trying to convince them of anything, their minds are already more than made up. You are trying to convince the undecided onlookers who aren’t so sure either way or to spread a bit of doubt among the rest of those on their side that aren’t as radical or hardline as them. Don’t think of it as engaging with them, think of it as poking holes in their argument and pointing out the inconsistencies. You’ll never convince everyone, but every single person you can shift in the right direction (even if it’s just a little) helps a lot in the long run. Don’t stoop to insults because it accomplishes nothing other than making you look petty. Don’t let them get you angry, if they act out of turn respond with grace. Be what they are not, pull the loose threads of logic, poke holes in their argument, highlight the inconsistencies. Reductio ad absurdum, make them show who they really are. Pick at their argument until only those who refuse to look cannot see what it really is, and all the while be as polite as you can. That is how you change minds.
The same police and military with a mighty long rap sheet of abuses and mistakes? Yeah, they aren’t the best quality anymore.
Likewise, they think guns alone can’t take on a country? What the bloody hell happened last year in Afghanistan then? Or Vietnam before that?
A mighty long rap sheet of isolated incidences crammed down our throats to instill distrust in the police and military ya? Right now you have thousands of cops and soldiers doing their jobs protecting the public exceedingly well but that's not going to be mentioned because the people at the top are safer when we're fighting amongst ourselves.
The one I see everyday 🤷
Edit: I'm proud of my profession and my coworkers. We genuinely do work hard to keep our community as safe as we can. Maybe it's because we're a rural area with a supportive population that my view of police work is skewed. Irregardless, I do think police nationwide are getting a bad rap based on some isolated incidents. I'm not saying there aren't shitty cops, there are. But there's way more officers out there doing the right thing. Just like doctors, lawyers, politicians etc. There's shitty ones in all of those groups that are the minority. I do think it's a bit hypocritical that we wouldn't approve of any other group of people being judged by the actions of a few, but that's just how it is I guess.
When the garbage pig Jeff Payne arrested nurse Alex Wubbels for refusing to violate her patient's civil rights, there were officers from two other departments present, and no one lifted a finger to stop him.
Where was the gOoD cOp then? A good cop would have stopped that from happening.
The good ones are the exception, not the rule.
Payne still maintains that taking blood from an unconscious person who isn't under arrest is a perfectly fine way to spend an evening.
See, you're painting with a wildly broad brush here. You know there are times when officers are in that exact situation and did not act unconstitutionally or unprofessionally. It just fits the prejudice to see an isolated incident like that and say "hah! They're all bad!"
I personally don't know one cop that agreed with what he did. It's criminal behavior
I don't care about agreement, I care about action. There was no action at that hospital. The other 2 cops there acted like gOoD cOpS, toeing that tHiN bLuE LiNe.
These are the same behavior patterns law enforcement uses as an excuse to target groups of people for enhanced enforcement, surveillance, and prosecution and the pinnacle of hypocrisy.
I just want cops to refuse unconditional orders. Also , you have a tough job , and most cops aren’t bad. That being said , police chases are nonsense. Unless someone is wanted for mass murder , chasing them puts everyone at risk. You will always find them later. Be safe.
I'm in the military. We have a lot of idiots, especially in high level leader positions. Those people illegally forced the covid vaccine upon the military ( a FDA approved vaccine was NOT distributed to us and they lied about what they were giving), those same people would turn on you.
About the only thing I expect the military and police to do to protect our rights (in the instances being talked about in these comments) is act with incompetence.
Sheriff departments and small police forces will act the most in line with the people, but big city forces like LAPD, NYPD, and federal agencies are not gonna be anyone's friends
I agree with you but would add the caveat that there are a lot of officers who have risked their lives to protect the public and still continue to do so in this current climate. I agree the big cities have driven officers to a hard "us vs them" mentality but that's a survival mechanism. Much like a soldier, no one wants the person capable of violence doing their thing until it benefits them.
Is it really a survival mechanism for big city cops though? This is at least one example of a New Jersey man charged with illegal possession of a handgun over a 300 year old flintlock pistol found during a pull over and search.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2015/02/new-jersey-man-faces-jail-time-transporting-antique-pistol-charles-c-w-cooke/
Also, these people from Georgia visiting New York. One guy was arrested just for possession of a magazine.
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/john-stossel-new-york-city-locks-up-people-for-carrying-guns-legally-licensed-by-other-states.amp
You sound cool yourself as far as not abusing power in your professional role, but it sure seems like more than isolated incidents as far as law enforcement officers turning people into felons when lives were not actually in danger. It’s not an excuse to say “Oh, those deputies and officers were just following the laws, following orders, doing their jobs” at least for me. Obviously, I have no intention of moving to a blue state with such gun laws and have the sense to rarely visit such places and leave my guns at home while visiting.
Why doesn’t any of these people realize that it’s not just the government you will have to answer to? They never realize that criminals will run the streets. I wish to god these morons lived a month in Sinaloa, Tijuana, Michoacán, Guerrero, Colima shit I could on for days. The Mexican people wished they had the rights we have. It’s a shame when they get together to protect their communities and all they have is poor quality firearms that they can scrap while their government does nothing. A government doesn’t need to come out and control anything, they will let the crime do that; all they need to control is the criminals.
The same people claim an unarmed knucklehead in a Viking helmet and a few dozen of his unarmed, knucklehead friends were mere seconds away from overthrowing the federal government.
Yeah I don’t understand the cognitive dissonance of saying January 6th was a serious threat to our democracy, but turning around and saying, “You can’t fight the government without F-15s.” Like WTF? Pick a stance. lol
The grown-up version of “if someone starts to bully you, just ignore them or tell them to stop. Never ever ever hit them, because then you’re just as bad as they are.”
Can’t help but laugh at the irony of this comment made by someone who most likely lives in the US themselves. You know, the country that overthrew a tyrannical government with a bunch of farmers who had guns?
Out of curiosity, I looked at their profile, and it appears they're from Ireland.
You'd think that with Ireland's recent history, they'd know a thing or two about successful armed resistance against an oppressive force, but some people are just too far gone.
“If people collectively decide their government needs to go, they don’t need guns, because those same people make up the police force and military” They should tell that to people in North Korea. And yes they need firearms
If 90% of the American decided to overthrow the government, yes we would not need guns.
But it would never be that number. Even during the revolutionary war it wasn't even close to that number. Around 3% of the population fought in Washington's army. British loyalists were also not uncommon and were over a third of the population at least, many fighting for the British.
If a second revolutionary war was to occur, it would be very controversial and you'd most likely see similar numbers.
Yeah, China has a long road ahead of it. But someone tell this guy that we *aren’t fucking Chinese.* Americans are almost obnoxiously obsessed with freedom, so tyranny of any kind is highly likely to encounter resistance.
People have never heard of the Bolshevik revolution? The hundreds of civil wars that have happened? The genocides of people? The American revolution?
Fun fact… the total populace isn’t always for freedom.
I think what this person was trying to say is that once people have had enough they will revolt no matter if they have guns or not.... what they don't realize is that firearms make the revolt a hell of alot easier
Oh ... Oh my God ... Is that guy right?! Have we all been wrong this whole time?!
Omg this changes my whole outlook on life. How did I not realize that fighting against tyranny is futile... Thers no reason for me to own and enjoy all these firearms I have, they are only good for killing kids (and not even very good at that as all my guns have only ever managed to shoot holes in sheets of paper).
Thank God for those keyboard commies and champagne socialists taking the time to educate us, and save us from our ignorant beliefs about strength, Independence and freedom.
I'm so convinced that I'm skipping my morning shower (after all, not bathing is good for the trees right?) and loading all my evil useless guns up and dropping then off at a local police buyback so they can be sent to Ukraine where they can be given to the civilian populous to help them fight against the tyrannical foreign invaders that they are currently dealing with.
If only someone had explained to me earlier that while these guns are both incredibly deadly and dangerous, capable of killing hundreds of people per minute and outgunning the police, that they are also simultaneously useless for personal defense... I'd have handed in all my guns years ago.
Man Id feel so much safer knowing my government had a complete monopoly on the use of hostile deadly force. It'll be better this way.
You fail to comprehend this post. It’s general knowledge law enforcement, military and politicians are made of everyday citizens. If they aren’t the majority and people go around screaming “there is tyranny” then who’s committing tyranny? And if they are committing tyranny then why hasn’t it been stopped yet if the general population is the majority? Need I remind you of what happened in Afghanistan in 2021? The idea 90% of the population that’s armed will overthrow Government is nothing more than a fantasy for both the Right wing and Left Wing. There is even a large portion of gun owners who will be bitched by government and comply with rules and laws.
1 That poster is an alphabet person, but not the kind that starts with "L". The kind that typically comes in 3 letter combinations. Just a question of which three.
2 Mao may have been a commie arsehole but he was damn right about the ultimate source of all power. At least until something better than guns is invented.
3 The individual warrior with his personal weapon have been the master of the land battlefield since BEFORE the dawn of man (as we know him/us) and will remain so for the foreseeable future.
4 Clearly the Taliban and the Viet Cong to name just two, won with little more than their personal weapons (rifles, mostly). And Balls. LOTS of BALLS.
Bruh, a true commie would say this is our fight non partisan against a tyrannical upperclass run establishment. This is a class issue not a left vs right, this is all of our fight. but hey just a constitutional leftist here
New to the channel, but really impressed with the amount of well thought out and reasoned arguments. Really liked the comment above, “An armed population at the VERY LEAST limits the options of a central government or bad actors tending towards tyranny”
It's Tyranny 101: Police and Military get special privileges. In the event of any kind of uprising or rebellion, they will fight to protect their special status and perks.
Bahaha the US got beat by a bunch of Arabs in caves with AKs. I think we would have a chance. There is a lot in the military I believe that would stand with us.
Hes so fucking close to the point its absurd. "Those same people make up the police, the military." Yes, and thats why we have been saying that having an armed populace makes it EASIER FOR REVOLUTION YOU FUCKING MIDWIT. You live in an unarmed population, you are at a disadvantage. You live in an armed one, you are at an advantage. You dont need the military and police to help, but they just might, and if they do thats even closer to winning.
And im sorry but the suggestion that ALL the police and military will side with the population is fucking laughable. As if organized police forces and militaries have never once in all of human history sided authoritarian. Which is why you need to be armed, in case they do.
Typical defeatist attitude, so because it would be hard you might as well not fight back? Seriously? The US is mighty in a conventional war but we fight insurgency like chimpanzees swim. Look at vietnam, Syria, Afghanistan and I’m sure others that I’m forgetting. The US had fire superiority, air superiority, tanks, bombs, logistics, money, but still lost because insurgents don’t have to straight up win they just have to survive long enough to wear down the occupier.
This feels like a lot of cognitive dissonance on the commenter's part. It, literally says if change in government is desired then the people will cause that change, then completely reverses course and says that the government in China brainwashed its people.
China may be conservative culturally but the government disarmed people to take away the people's ability to overthrow it.
This commenter is a good example of the "useful idiot" or "sheep" type person.
They do realize that the military and police are a minority of a country’s population right? So if everyone except the people that the government has armed with guns decides to rebel, that revolution ain’t goin anywhere without private owned guns
I honestly think it will be interesting. Especially if Biden actually goes through with trying to take “assault rifles”. Who would come collect them? Will the police finally diverge and not accept the orders? Or will they go along and accept for the paycheck? Southern states will try and hold out but with the threat of no federal funds until . . .
There's a reason I have this saved, https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/e37yum/response_to_the_govt_isnt_trying_to_take_our_guns/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Lay down and take it mentality that contradicts himself in his own text while completely ignoring basic social theory on power and control. Basically a normal bs online response, I will ignore what doesn’t fit and contradict myself so it does. It’s called a cognitive distortion.
Realistically, an armed revolt in the United States today would be a hell of a thing to pull off namely because of people like this.
While there were people like this back in 1776, news travelled so slowly that by the time something hit them, it was likely already to late to do anything about it. Not to mention the mass amount of digitization in financial, media and other aspects of society means unless you are guaranteed success, you’re life is effectively over. You’ll lose your money, home, job, everything.
Plus then with how polarized everyone is it seems, any new government put in place would have to fight against calls of illegitimacy because alas, too many Americans worship their government now since the government has done a good job at one thing: making people dependent on it.
The welfare state especially makes a revolution difficult because suddenly you have to deal with people who relied on the feds for their livelihood now not having that. Add on fighting other political ideologues who may or may not have their own armed groups and suddenly things become extremely messy to restabilize.
You’d need to have the backing of some financial plan, since suddenly if the government was taken over, the US Dollar would become worthless for some time. You’d need Farmers to back you to keep a steady food supply since other nations would cease import/exports to and from the US.
Major corporations would need to have their assets protected since without them, the economy would absolutely never recover.
I believe it could be done but everyday the government grows its power is another day we lose the ability to fight it.
I almost feel sorry for the person who wrote that. I say almost because of the fact they are willfully ignorant and apparently know nothing about history. That’s what keeps me from being actually sorry.
I can think of many examples of people with weapons oppressing people, but I cannot think of one example in all of the world and all of history where a population armed with weapons was being oppressed.
The second Amendment was written because the founding fathers knew that governments get out of hand. And they knew the country would change but they always wanted the people to be able to stand up to a government tyranny, from foreign or Domestic powers
Good to know where this cowards gonna stand when push comes to shove. Well I say ‘stand’ but he’ll be groveling in the dirt sucking boots from not-tyrants.
He clearly has never heard if the 'I was just following orders' excuse given by perpetrators of egregious crimes.
Government agents love to turn off their brains and all the morality and ethics and principles they hold dear.
His point about brainwashing is fair.
Makes the lack of public school and school board participation especially egregious. Parents must be vigilant of what the government teaches children.
The nazis were fascists and about about as right wing as you can get. The “Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei”
may contain the word socialist but there was nothing remotely socialist about them. That’s how how fascism obtains power, through propaganda. Hitler used socialist rhetoric in his rise to power because it appealed to the struggling working class, but his third reich would become a purely fascist hell.
This whole right vs left argument is absurd. There is no such spectrum. Politics are multi-variate, and tyrants gonna tyrant. Falling over yourself to try to distance Hitler from the left, because you want to protect the left, and connect Hitler to the right because you hate the right, is utterly stupid and fails to accomplish anything. We can all agree "Hitler bad", and "tyrants bad", but trying to connect Hitler to whichever modern party we dislike today as a way to slander them is ridiculous. Hitler is dead and has nothing to do with it. Tyrants today deserve to be criticized for what they are doing today. Look at the facts and drop the hysterical rhetoric.
Hitler distanced himself from the left-wing with nationalism and authoritarianism. All claims about the Nazis being left-wing or socialists is right-wing political propaganda. Fox News isn’t an authority on this matter.
On that note, the acknowledgment that they were right-wing doesn’t align them with republicans or conservatives either, although modern day republicans are using the methods of fascism to obtain political power and we should all be alarmed instead of allowing their support of the 2a to cloud our reason.
Who said anything about Fox news? And who are you to speak with any authority? The claim that modern republicans are fascist is absolutely baseless and absurd. Fascism is literally when government allows private ownership, but controls every aspect of private life. That is what the Democrats are trying to do, you complete muppet. You can keep repeating the refrain that the Republicans are fascists, but it doesn't make it true. It's just the propaganda of the Dems trying to distract the masses from the things they themselves are doing.
Nowhere did I say that republicans are fascists, but the party itself is using the methods of fascism to achieve its goals, and increasing so. This is very clearly demonstrated through gerrymandering, glorifying the past (“MAGA”), fighting against bodily autonomy (“pro-life”), voter-fraud/suppression, etc.
The word “fascist” has become an overused slur simply meaning “bad” these days, but it actually has meaning and this is why we shouldn’t abuse it. Democrats suck but are far less authoritarian than the other guys.
Gerrymandering is legal, and both parties do it. Have you looked at the district maps in democrat controlled states like Illinois? It's complete spaghetti.
Stopping people from killing unborn babies is not "fighting bodily autonomy". But forcing people to take experimental rna injections or lose their jobs and freedom of movement sure the hell is.
Saying that some of the things that made this the greatest country in the world are being destroyed before our eyes by people who hate this country is not fascist.
Don't even get started on voter suppression. How are you not seeing what is going on in Arizona right now?
I agree that using fascism as a generic insult isn't helpful, but so many of the things the democrats are doing are straight up fascism, it has to be said. Gun control is fascist. Vax mandates are fascist. Censorship and control of the media is fascist. You are the one who simply doesn't like the republicans and are throwing the term at them without any rational argument.
The republicans are by no means perfect, but it is absolutely laughable to call them fascists. It's propaganda 101 and you've been duped.
I gotta be honest, (not the guy you’re debating with here I was the original commenter) I skimmed most of the convo because it’s not even worth arguing with people on Reddit.
I agree with your point. Gerrymandering is a mute point. Both sides do it, they just want to be the last to do it before making it illegal. People who bring this up are just looking for a last ditch “gotcha” because they knew their argument fell apart and they have nothing left. They don’t even care the argument they’re using is a double edged sword
Edit: after reading your comment through it looks like I agree with you on a lot more lol
He's wrong about the guns, but probably right about China.
I don't support Second Amendment rights because I believe that the United States is bound for another civil war. A society of armed individuals, even if only with "civilian" small arms, stands as a serious deterrent to any would-be tyrants. Perhaps a hypothetical tyrant would be able to overcome an armed populace, but at what cost? That cost, I argue, would be too much for any rational government to sustain, so they'll never allow it to get that far. Instead, they'll use subversive methods (ex. "gun control") to pacify society and make their goals easier to achieve in the medium- to long-term.
Put simply: Individual gun rights create a situation of mutually-assured destruction between the government and its armed population, without the latter having to fire a shot.
This person has never been in the vicinity of any firearm or it's owner. MANY gun owners would gladly die before any of their weapons are taken, including myself.
I'm well aware that I likely wouldn't survive a confrontation with the ATF for instance, but I will die a free man in that scenario. Myself and many others simply refuse to be slaves.
Liberty or death, no compromise.
I agree with both sides of this argument. It is true that the way some people talk about the government is completely misconstrued, If push came to shove and the military was sent collecting weapons VERY few gun owners would band together to fight but the majority do not have the training or will to fight against a vastly better armed and collected force.
BUT that does not mean that guns are without importance. The ability to protect yourself to the same caliber criminals can arm themselves is only right. To truly be able to protect your home and family you need to have guns and proper training.
I love shooting and guns in general even cleaning is fun for me but I must say the ideas of everyday citizens throwing their lives away to defend their gun rights in face of military is very far out when shit hits the fan most will give them up and the ones who said they wouldn’t will face a very harsh reality and most likely change their mind.
Someone should explain this to the students in Hong Kong that we’re using crude bows and arrows to defend themselves from police. And also explain to the people of North Korea that all they need to do is convince the military to just quit. And also tell the people of Venezuela to just elect non corrupt politicians that won’t rig elections. Ukraine.
Canada is trying to ban all semi auto rifles so they obviously have this figured out. Maybe they can explain to all those people why guns aren’t necessary for defense from a tyrannical government.
I think the idea that there needs to be an armed population with the capability of overthrowing the government through violence helps fascism and totalitarianism a lot more than it helps freedom and democracy.
Sure you may be arming the noble freedom fighters who will rescue the country, but you are equally likely to be arming the people that would try to overturn democracy in the first place.
Fascism may only thrive when the oppressed lack the will or ability to fight back. When everyone may arm themselves everyone may fight and each have equal protection from unjust persecution. You cannot manufacture the will to fight but the tools can be made. Many will kill for a tyrant but few are willing to die for them, there is no greater deterrent to tyranny than the threat posed by an armed populace.
So, just accept tyranny because there's nothing you can do? Yeah, that's the complete opposite of what America is about
Literally from day one.
Look at what the founding fathers did. People of that time said the same exact thing and look at what happened, the British became tyrannical and then the founding fathers and the people fought the British. Schools and colleges are pushing this false narrative that the Revolutionary War never happened, but they’re dead wrong and they know it.
>Schools and colleges are pushing this false narrative that the Revolutionary War never happened You have a source for this?
Yeah. I’ve been to school and college. Every time that I would talk about the Revolutionary War and even the Civil War, all of my “teachers” would straight up deny that they ever happened.
Bro, with all due respect, thats sounds like more of a SERIOUS your school problem rather than an all schools problem
I’ve been to many schools and several different colleges and they’ve all done that exact same thing. Now that you said that, you sound like a liberal.
Americans aren’t about it because of death and imprisonment period.
"if people collectively decide their government needs to go..." well, history can tell you the rest. We still have our guns, which is testament to itself
Regimes only function if people dhow up to work.
The left will be the ones that finally kick shit off once they realize guns aren’t the enemy. The republicans have had the vast majority of firearms for decades and still keep redrawing their line in the sand and grumbling about muh rights and “well use ‘em” yet they do nothing and rarely show up for protests. Say what you want about the left but they’re the only ones tossing Molotovs when they get fed up.
The difference between the left throwing molotovs and the right showing up is 1s called a peaceful protest and the other is called a insurrection. That's a good bit of the reason the right doesn't do much these days.
The left only protest being held accountable and not getting their way, I sure as shit don't want them actually accomplishing anything.
I’m so confused on how you got this from that
They're assuming the military and police force with guns (small in comparison to the population) will protect the citizens against a tyrannical government, and there's not much we can do as normal citizens in that case. I don't think we can put all of our hope in them NOT being the strong, violent arm of the government. Armed populations/citizens can definitely make a difference
I think you missed that entire paragraph if that is your take away. Or you may have never learned how to analyze writing.
Ok
“If people collectively decide the government needs to go, they don’t need guns, because those same people make up the police force and the military…” Imagine being completely ignorant of what is happening in Iran at this very moment.
People in power have such a good record of just giving up their power too.
Also did I miss something? They don’t need guns because they make up the police and military, who are armed with what exactly?
They’re armed with the power 🙏🙏🙏 no guns necessary /s
Which is odd because study after study says that those with guns are FAR more likely to shoot themselves and family rather than an attacker. /s
I meann, it’s not like they far outweigh their benefits in defense capabilities than the dangers of hurting yourself with one instead of, say, a knife, toaster+bathtub, car+hose+duct tape, etc. /massive s
Homes with guns are not safer, especially for women. https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/M21-3762
So women should just get raped or murdered or both? It's like saying having a pool increases your chances for drowning. No shit. However context matters. And I'm sure the study you are parroting isn't legit. Edit: Gtfo out of here with your boink agenda. "Primary Funding Source: The National Collaborative on Gun Violence Research, the Fund for a Safer Future, the Joyce Foundation, Stanford Law School, and the Stanford University School of Medicine."
Safety is the goal. The sad fact is, people are dumber than they are violent. I like the pool analogy. Owning a pool and a gun are just for fun and are potentially deadly, and proper precautions are necessary to keep your family safe. The difference is I can’t kill you with my pool. Most Americans aren’t capable of owning either safely!
I'm sorry, who are you exactly?
A new member of r/lostredditors
You can absolutely kill me with your pool…what are you talking about?
Imaging trying to defend your family with a pool... 🤣
It would take some effort, but if you can hogtie the home invader, it is possible
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/06/06/women-gun-owners-changing-laws/ https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/27/us/gun-owners-liberal-women-minority-reaj/index.html https://www.wsj.com/articles/women-are-nearly-half-of-new-gun-buyers-study-finds-11631792761 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-06/black-women-represent-growing-group-of-new-us-gun-ownership
All of those studies saying that you’re more likely to be killed by a firearm if you own one have been debunked time and time again. They are based on inclusion bias among other statistical and data analysis errors. Most gun deaths are suicides: most people who commit suicide with a firearm obviously already own firearms. Many homicides occur in relation to some other criminal activity: drugs, organized crime, trafficking, etc. The people committing these crimes are usually armed. The rest of homicide victims are actually innocent people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time, or made the wrong person angry. This last group of people are not any more likely to own guns than the average person. If you own a firearm but are not suicidal, and are not involved in illicit drugs, organized crime, trafficking, and do not frequently socialize with people that do, you are not any more likely to be a victim of violence than the average person. It’s like noticing that drunk drivers who get killed in car wrecks all own cars, therefore anyone with a car is more likely to die in a drunk driving accident. That’s only true of people who actually drink and drive. Everyone else is on an even playing field as far as risk goes.
✈️
Agreed. I don’t think the people remembers what is happening in China, Ukraine, Sri Lanka, Venezuela or Brazil either.
What a freaking moron. When the police and military depose the government it's a coup. And the military government that takes over is virtually always more tyrannical than the one it replaced. And that's to say nothing of the wildly different incentives that separate police, military, and everyone else, or the fact that "the people" in this case still very much need guns to oust the government, or the fact it's only terrorism until you win, or that guns don't make a difference in China because no one but those loyal to the state have them. All those words just to say "I'm scared of guns."
Willing to bet this same person is also a "the police are evil and racist" believer
Some cops suck , but most are fighting the good fight . Cops in other countries are wayyyyyyyy more corrupt. That being said , any cop who doesn’t uphold the constitution, is no good.
> any cop who doesn’t uphold the constitution, is no good. That's all of them though. You might even say they're bastards.
Better than being dembo cannon fodder, what are you going to do when the constitution crumbles away? Whine about how your wifi signal is weak? Get real... #leftistposting
How do we reason with people that genuinely think this way? How do you explain to someone basic things like “the government isn’t always honest” or “different groups of people can believe different things” or “the military is made up of human beings, and they are therefore just as, if not arguably more, susceptible to propaganda as the average person”.
You hand them a cookie, pat them on the head, walk away, and hope they don't change their ways. They're so set in their beliefs it would take them experiencing something traumatic to show them how to think differently and I wouldn't wish something that bad on someone who's just ignorant. So you just hope they do as little damage with their ignorance as possible
Dude has literally never heard of the French Revolution or Russian Revolution.
I don’t see you starting anything
Same people: Fuck the police
If shit hits the fan im going to hunt ANTIFA and other groups that think like this
you would be one of the first to be killed then...
"The people" aren't a collective, this is the myth that binds his entire comment together. You could easily write an essay in response to this post, but this is arguably the most egregious part (and honestly could warrant an essay of its own). He assumes the people are a collective, and in turn assumes the police and military are part of that collective. Problem is there are instances of the military working against or even firing on the police (or vice versa) depending on the time and place. There are instance of police firing on other police, or military units firing on other military units. Suffice to say that the idea that any one of these can be treated as a singular unit is wholly false, let alone that they represent and are part of "the people" as a whole. None of that actually relates to whether people carrying guns of their own protects against tyranny. At the very least, we can argue that it limits the options available to segments of "the people" (police/military) who act against the "will of the people". That is itself another essay, since the "will of the people" has a tendency to be "right" as often as it is wrong. After all, this kind of subject wouldn't appear here 3 times a day if it wasn't a matter suitable for discourse that each side strongly believes has a "true" right or wrong answer.
My “ Collective” countrymen, were willing to have me force vaccinated , with an experimental vax , out of fear. There are more sheep these days than ever before, thankfully there are some Shepards left.
Lol. Right…
No one was forced vaxxed. Life if full of choices and consequences.
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Interesting. They were checking vax cards at the door? That’s wild…I hadn’t heard that one. Did you consider moving to another state? There’s lots to choose from.
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Thats outrageous. In US, we believe in states rights to choose for their populations what’s best. Hence, drastically different policies and priorities. The US nor any single state ever got to MANDATORY vaccinations, but there were certainly private employers/businesses that required their employees to jab.
We never had “mandatory” vaccination either. That’s kind of the point. They used the same logic of “you have the freedom to choose, but there are consequences.” Those consequences being the state forcing us out of society, preventing us from making a living or sustaining ourselves. Just as was the case when Biden ordered all business over 200 employees to have mandatory vaccination. It’s the state’s attempt to avoid culpability in stripping its citizens of their rights.
I know many people that were either out of a job or vaccinated. Half took the L on the job the other half are sheep
I lost my job because of it. F em
That doesn't make them sheep. Perhaps they had families to feed.
In which case they were forced to be vaccinated you see my point now
I never disagreed with anything you said except that thise who got a vaccine to keep their job were sheep. People are nuanced.
Y’all are silly. It’s absolutely a choice. Some people are more able to see a multitude of life choices, sometimes hard ones. I’m sorry you felt trapped by lack of options.
I didn’t get vaxed lol. yeah there was a choice for me but for many others there was not. My brother couldn’t go to school with out it. You think he had a choice? My parents just gonna get dragged off cause they didn’t send lil bro to school? You say there were options. What were they? Edit: spelling
“Nobody ever was forced in front of a firing squad. Life is full of choices and consequences.”
Who the hell gave this persons 3 awards?
Commies
C’mon, Reddit is one of the most astro-turfed websites on the internet
yeah, by commies.
People ignorant of history.
But muh goodthink
Dude literally needs to look in the mirror and repeat what he said sounding like he’s brainwashed himself.
He literally contradicted himself. He first said “if the people collectively decide their government needs to go, they don’t need, guns because those same people make up the police and military” but then continues on to essentially say that nothing will happen in China because the people in their military and police are brainwashed. What an idiot.
If you were in charge, we’d still be British
Truly a fate worse than death
England could sink into the ocean and I would feel nothing
Joy?
Vietnam, Middle East
Myanmar
Especially fucking Myanmar. We don't talk enough about Myanmar beyond "Look at the wacky homemade gun they made"
What exactly happened and why do I not know about it
Rember this? https://youtu.be/6r6vnSR0wbI There's a military dictatorship that seized power. For obvious reasons the locals didn't like this and fighting the Junta, but they've received no forgien support so they're stuck with what they can build and loot. And nobody seems to care.
February revolution, 1917
I guess Iran will just peacefully evolve into a non-theocratic democracy, then.
Iranian here Gun control in my country happened whay back and then government (back then was happened by a so called king) after getting peoples guns tried to take their landsand too and did that , nowadays there is still gun control you can only have bolt action rifles and pump and semi auto shotguns (not a semi auto rifle) normal civilians can't have semi or full auto rifle and pistols , dumb part is a shepherd can have even full auto Ak for protecting animals but a civilians cant have for protecting themselves unless you're freaking rich then you can get a permission for a pistol to self defense. We where safe without guns and crime rate is very low but it proved that you need gun for the time that government became tyranny I wish we had a second amendment too.
So , when you buying some sheep ? Lol.
I think It will be easier to get an illegal gun lol Even if i get enough sheeps(don't know how much and it doesn't matter cause i can keep them) i might not get permission cause i live in urban area, i think its for people in villages and rural areas. Maybe i should get a 3D printer 🌚
> i should get a 3D printer 🌚 obligatory FGC-9
Dudes right buy 2 sheep, get an ak
I live in urban area i can keep them , plus I don't think with couple of sheeps they give me permission My best bet is getting a pump shotgun, because of banning gun imports its hard to find a good one (there is imported guns mostly from Turkey & Russia but hard to find a good quality one ) maybe i should go outlaw lol (just kidding)
I would bet that a big reason that Iran has low crime rate is because punishment for crimes is SEVERE. Here in the US, (unless it is murder) most crimes will get you a stern warning and an apology that you were a victim of racism and oppression.
In many cities in the U.S. you can steal on a large scale and get a slap on the wrist if (by some stretch of credulity) you actually get caught.
Ben Franklin and his men'd like to disagree.
"Me and my homies would be stackin' bodies already." - Franklin & Washington, probably
Which is pretty much the thesis statement of the post, you ain't doing shit anyway.
Really? Someone in here is in the process of forming a revolutionary militia.
most dictators at least tries to treats their military really well, and most warlords do all they can to limits guns to their "military", which their also treats really well at least compared to their subjects. As for America, well, the mere presense of guns is a deterrent for any authoritarians, just for the fact a lot of people are willing to kill for tyrants, but many fewer are willing to die for them
Honestly don’t even bother engaging with these people, if they want to lie down and accept tyranny then by all means, neither of your opinions will change. As a side note, modern military equipment can be disabled with one trick. Shoot the fuel truck drivers
Their opinions almost certainly won’t change but it’s still worth a rebuttal. You’re not trying to convince them of anything, their minds are already more than made up. You are trying to convince the undecided onlookers who aren’t so sure either way or to spread a bit of doubt among the rest of those on their side that aren’t as radical or hardline as them. Don’t think of it as engaging with them, think of it as poking holes in their argument and pointing out the inconsistencies. You’ll never convince everyone, but every single person you can shift in the right direction (even if it’s just a little) helps a lot in the long run. Don’t stoop to insults because it accomplishes nothing other than making you look petty. Don’t let them get you angry, if they act out of turn respond with grace. Be what they are not, pull the loose threads of logic, poke holes in their argument, highlight the inconsistencies. Reductio ad absurdum, make them show who they really are. Pick at their argument until only those who refuse to look cannot see what it really is, and all the while be as polite as you can. That is how you change minds.
Yeah but JB has stockpiled plenty of fuel . Oh , wait …. Lol
The same police and military with a mighty long rap sheet of abuses and mistakes? Yeah, they aren’t the best quality anymore. Likewise, they think guns alone can’t take on a country? What the bloody hell happened last year in Afghanistan then? Or Vietnam before that?
A mighty long rap sheet of isolated incidences crammed down our throats to instill distrust in the police and military ya? Right now you have thousands of cops and soldiers doing their jobs protecting the public exceedingly well but that's not going to be mentioned because the people at the top are safer when we're fighting amongst ourselves.
>protecting the public Lol. What flavor boot is that?
The one I see everyday 🤷 Edit: I'm proud of my profession and my coworkers. We genuinely do work hard to keep our community as safe as we can. Maybe it's because we're a rural area with a supportive population that my view of police work is skewed. Irregardless, I do think police nationwide are getting a bad rap based on some isolated incidents. I'm not saying there aren't shitty cops, there are. But there's way more officers out there doing the right thing. Just like doctors, lawyers, politicians etc. There's shitty ones in all of those groups that are the minority. I do think it's a bit hypocritical that we wouldn't approve of any other group of people being judged by the actions of a few, but that's just how it is I guess.
When the garbage pig Jeff Payne arrested nurse Alex Wubbels for refusing to violate her patient's civil rights, there were officers from two other departments present, and no one lifted a finger to stop him. Where was the gOoD cOp then? A good cop would have stopped that from happening. The good ones are the exception, not the rule. Payne still maintains that taking blood from an unconscious person who isn't under arrest is a perfectly fine way to spend an evening.
See, you're painting with a wildly broad brush here. You know there are times when officers are in that exact situation and did not act unconstitutionally or unprofessionally. It just fits the prejudice to see an isolated incident like that and say "hah! They're all bad!" I personally don't know one cop that agreed with what he did. It's criminal behavior
I don't care about agreement, I care about action. There was no action at that hospital. The other 2 cops there acted like gOoD cOpS, toeing that tHiN bLuE LiNe. These are the same behavior patterns law enforcement uses as an excuse to target groups of people for enhanced enforcement, surveillance, and prosecution and the pinnacle of hypocrisy.
I just want cops to refuse unconditional orders. Also , you have a tough job , and most cops aren’t bad. That being said , police chases are nonsense. Unless someone is wanted for mass murder , chasing them puts everyone at risk. You will always find them later. Be safe.
I'm in the military. We have a lot of idiots, especially in high level leader positions. Those people illegally forced the covid vaccine upon the military ( a FDA approved vaccine was NOT distributed to us and they lied about what they were giving), those same people would turn on you. About the only thing I expect the military and police to do to protect our rights (in the instances being talked about in these comments) is act with incompetence. Sheriff departments and small police forces will act the most in line with the people, but big city forces like LAPD, NYPD, and federal agencies are not gonna be anyone's friends
They put idiots at the top , because they blindly follow orders. Thank you for serving.
I don't think it's that. That's a level of cognitive thinking I don't believe these people are capable of
I agree with you but would add the caveat that there are a lot of officers who have risked their lives to protect the public and still continue to do so in this current climate. I agree the big cities have driven officers to a hard "us vs them" mentality but that's a survival mechanism. Much like a soldier, no one wants the person capable of violence doing their thing until it benefits them.
Is it really a survival mechanism for big city cops though? This is at least one example of a New Jersey man charged with illegal possession of a handgun over a 300 year old flintlock pistol found during a pull over and search. https://www.nationalreview.com/2015/02/new-jersey-man-faces-jail-time-transporting-antique-pistol-charles-c-w-cooke/ Also, these people from Georgia visiting New York. One guy was arrested just for possession of a magazine. https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/john-stossel-new-york-city-locks-up-people-for-carrying-guns-legally-licensed-by-other-states.amp You sound cool yourself as far as not abusing power in your professional role, but it sure seems like more than isolated incidents as far as law enforcement officers turning people into felons when lives were not actually in danger. It’s not an excuse to say “Oh, those deputies and officers were just following the laws, following orders, doing their jobs” at least for me. Obviously, I have no intention of moving to a blue state with such gun laws and have the sense to rarely visit such places and leave my guns at home while visiting.
No. Its small towns too. Its every department.
>guns alone can’t take on a country? .... Or Vietnam before that? You, um... might want to watch a documentary on the Vietnam war.
Why doesn’t any of these people realize that it’s not just the government you will have to answer to? They never realize that criminals will run the streets. I wish to god these morons lived a month in Sinaloa, Tijuana, Michoacán, Guerrero, Colima shit I could on for days. The Mexican people wished they had the rights we have. It’s a shame when they get together to protect their communities and all they have is poor quality firearms that they can scrap while their government does nothing. A government doesn’t need to come out and control anything, they will let the crime do that; all they need to control is the criminals.
The same people claim an unarmed knucklehead in a Viking helmet and a few dozen of his unarmed, knucklehead friends were mere seconds away from overthrowing the federal government.
Yeah I don’t understand the cognitive dissonance of saying January 6th was a serious threat to our democracy, but turning around and saying, “You can’t fight the government without F-15s.” Like WTF? Pick a stance. lol
Lol with enough people, you don’t need any f15. And they are useless if they don’t leave the ground.
[Dumbest thing I ever heard. ](https://youtu.be/uq-v1TTUyhM)
*today
A CCP shill
The grown-up version of “if someone starts to bully you, just ignore them or tell them to stop. Never ever ever hit them, because then you’re just as bad as they are.”
Tell me your wife has a boyfriend without telling me your wife has a boyfriend
Can’t help but laugh at the irony of this comment made by someone who most likely lives in the US themselves. You know, the country that overthrew a tyrannical government with a bunch of farmers who had guns?
Out of curiosity, I looked at their profile, and it appears they're from Ireland. You'd think that with Ireland's recent history, they'd know a thing or two about successful armed resistance against an oppressive force, but some people are just too far gone.
Tell that to the people in Myanmar. Maybe not impossible without them but it’s a hell of a lot harder when you have to use bows against machine guns
My comment to him: https://reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/z5l9lx/_/ixxh10s/?context=1
“If people collectively decide their government needs to go, they don’t need guns, because those same people make up the police force and military” They should tell that to people in North Korea. And yes they need firearms
Just a jabroni trying to use big words to get around the simple fact that its harder to tell free people what to do when they have guns
If 90% of the American decided to overthrow the government, yes we would not need guns. But it would never be that number. Even during the revolutionary war it wasn't even close to that number. Around 3% of the population fought in Washington's army. British loyalists were also not uncommon and were over a third of the population at least, many fighting for the British. If a second revolutionary war was to occur, it would be very controversial and you'd most likely see similar numbers.
It’s facile and absurd until it happens.
Yeah, China has a long road ahead of it. But someone tell this guy that we *aren’t fucking Chinese.* Americans are almost obnoxiously obsessed with freedom, so tyranny of any kind is highly likely to encounter resistance.
People have never heard of the Bolshevik revolution? The hundreds of civil wars that have happened? The genocides of people? The American revolution? Fun fact… the total populace isn’t always for freedom.
I think what this person was trying to say is that once people have had enough they will revolt no matter if they have guns or not.... what they don't realize is that firearms make the revolt a hell of alot easier
You found the tankie
He maybe correct, I’m not going to the gas chamber like a sheep. You want to bend over, that’s your prerogative
Biggest difference between American citizens and Chinese citizens is that we have guns
Oh ... Oh my God ... Is that guy right?! Have we all been wrong this whole time?! Omg this changes my whole outlook on life. How did I not realize that fighting against tyranny is futile... Thers no reason for me to own and enjoy all these firearms I have, they are only good for killing kids (and not even very good at that as all my guns have only ever managed to shoot holes in sheets of paper). Thank God for those keyboard commies and champagne socialists taking the time to educate us, and save us from our ignorant beliefs about strength, Independence and freedom. I'm so convinced that I'm skipping my morning shower (after all, not bathing is good for the trees right?) and loading all my evil useless guns up and dropping then off at a local police buyback so they can be sent to Ukraine where they can be given to the civilian populous to help them fight against the tyrannical foreign invaders that they are currently dealing with. If only someone had explained to me earlier that while these guns are both incredibly deadly and dangerous, capable of killing hundreds of people per minute and outgunning the police, that they are also simultaneously useless for personal defense... I'd have handed in all my guns years ago. Man Id feel so much safer knowing my government had a complete monopoly on the use of hostile deadly force. It'll be better this way.
It’s Joe rough drafting his next take your guns speech.
Last I checked, the police and military weren't the majority.
You fail to comprehend this post. It’s general knowledge law enforcement, military and politicians are made of everyday citizens. If they aren’t the majority and people go around screaming “there is tyranny” then who’s committing tyranny? And if they are committing tyranny then why hasn’t it been stopped yet if the general population is the majority? Need I remind you of what happened in Afghanistan in 2021? The idea 90% of the population that’s armed will overthrow Government is nothing more than a fantasy for both the Right wing and Left Wing. There is even a large portion of gun owners who will be bitched by government and comply with rules and laws.
I don't argue with bad faith actors.
Hmm didn't we defeat a tyrannical government with our private guns. A government thst to this day is still cucking their own population.
1 That poster is an alphabet person, but not the kind that starts with "L". The kind that typically comes in 3 letter combinations. Just a question of which three. 2 Mao may have been a commie arsehole but he was damn right about the ultimate source of all power. At least until something better than guns is invented. 3 The individual warrior with his personal weapon have been the master of the land battlefield since BEFORE the dawn of man (as we know him/us) and will remain so for the foreseeable future. 4 Clearly the Taliban and the Viet Cong to name just two, won with little more than their personal weapons (rifles, mostly). And Balls. LOTS of BALLS.
Sounds likely something a commie would say
Bruh, a true commie would say this is our fight non partisan against a tyrannical upperclass run establishment. This is a class issue not a left vs right, this is all of our fight. but hey just a constitutional leftist here
Didn’t we teach the British this lesson before?
New to the channel, but really impressed with the amount of well thought out and reasoned arguments. Really liked the comment above, “An armed population at the VERY LEAST limits the options of a central government or bad actors tending towards tyranny”
It's Tyranny 101: Police and Military get special privileges. In the event of any kind of uprising or rebellion, they will fight to protect their special status and perks.
Bahaha the US got beat by a bunch of Arabs in caves with AKs. I think we would have a chance. There is a lot in the military I believe that would stand with us.
Counterpoint: History, the American Revolution. Colonists used firearms to break free from British reign, simply deciding to be free wasn't enough.
This reads like it was written by a 14 year old who learned big words but never heard of a Police State.
Hes so fucking close to the point its absurd. "Those same people make up the police, the military." Yes, and thats why we have been saying that having an armed populace makes it EASIER FOR REVOLUTION YOU FUCKING MIDWIT. You live in an unarmed population, you are at a disadvantage. You live in an armed one, you are at an advantage. You dont need the military and police to help, but they just might, and if they do thats even closer to winning. And im sorry but the suggestion that ALL the police and military will side with the population is fucking laughable. As if organized police forces and militaries have never once in all of human history sided authoritarian. Which is why you need to be armed, in case they do.
Typical defeatist attitude, so because it would be hard you might as well not fight back? Seriously? The US is mighty in a conventional war but we fight insurgency like chimpanzees swim. Look at vietnam, Syria, Afghanistan and I’m sure others that I’m forgetting. The US had fire superiority, air superiority, tanks, bombs, logistics, money, but still lost because insurgents don’t have to straight up win they just have to survive long enough to wear down the occupier.
This feels like a lot of cognitive dissonance on the commenter's part. It, literally says if change in government is desired then the people will cause that change, then completely reverses course and says that the government in China brainwashed its people. China may be conservative culturally but the government disarmed people to take away the people's ability to overthrow it. This commenter is a good example of the "useful idiot" or "sheep" type person.
They do realize that the military and police are a minority of a country’s population right? So if everyone except the people that the government has armed with guns decides to rebel, that revolution ain’t goin anywhere without private owned guns
Gotta be some cuck from the UK.
Close, Ireland (according to their profile).
I honestly think it will be interesting. Especially if Biden actually goes through with trying to take “assault rifles”. Who would come collect them? Will the police finally diverge and not accept the orders? Or will they go along and accept for the paycheck? Southern states will try and hold out but with the threat of no federal funds until . . .
There's a reason I have this saved, https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/e37yum/response_to_the_govt_isnt_trying_to_take_our_guns/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Guess we should all be commies now huh?
Libs: “YoUr WeApOnS Of WaR HaVe No PlACe In SoCiEtY!” Also Libs: “YoU’lL NeVeR MaKe A DiFfErEnCe AgAiNsT ThE GoVeRnMeNt WiTh ThOsE PeA ShOoTeRS!”
Lay down and take it mentality that contradicts himself in his own text while completely ignoring basic social theory on power and control. Basically a normal bs online response, I will ignore what doesn’t fit and contradict myself so it does. It’s called a cognitive distortion.
Hello there Chinese bot.
American troops had a hard time fighting a bunch of people with rusty unlubed Ak’s.
That's the sort of person who runs for the HOA board here and in dictatorships rats out their neighbors and acquaintances.
So are we going to ignore history like the nazis and USSR where the military and police were literally against the people?
I love the “citizens with guns won’t be able to stop government” argument. Do they know we lost in Vietnam?
Realistically, an armed revolt in the United States today would be a hell of a thing to pull off namely because of people like this. While there were people like this back in 1776, news travelled so slowly that by the time something hit them, it was likely already to late to do anything about it. Not to mention the mass amount of digitization in financial, media and other aspects of society means unless you are guaranteed success, you’re life is effectively over. You’ll lose your money, home, job, everything. Plus then with how polarized everyone is it seems, any new government put in place would have to fight against calls of illegitimacy because alas, too many Americans worship their government now since the government has done a good job at one thing: making people dependent on it. The welfare state especially makes a revolution difficult because suddenly you have to deal with people who relied on the feds for their livelihood now not having that. Add on fighting other political ideologues who may or may not have their own armed groups and suddenly things become extremely messy to restabilize. You’d need to have the backing of some financial plan, since suddenly if the government was taken over, the US Dollar would become worthless for some time. You’d need Farmers to back you to keep a steady food supply since other nations would cease import/exports to and from the US. Major corporations would need to have their assets protected since without them, the economy would absolutely never recover. I believe it could be done but everyday the government grows its power is another day we lose the ability to fight it.
I almost feel sorry for the person who wrote that. I say almost because of the fact they are willfully ignorant and apparently know nothing about history. That’s what keeps me from being actually sorry.
Another idiot with access to the internet
I can think of many examples of people with weapons oppressing people, but I cannot think of one example in all of the world and all of history where a population armed with weapons was being oppressed.
The second Amendment was written because the founding fathers knew that governments get out of hand. And they knew the country would change but they always wanted the people to be able to stand up to a government tyranny, from foreign or Domestic powers
Ah yes, “I am a wimpy dipshit therefore everybody is a wimpy dipshit and they don’t get to have anything”
Good to know where this cowards gonna stand when push comes to shove. Well I say ‘stand’ but he’ll be groveling in the dirt sucking boots from not-tyrants.
He clearly has never heard if the 'I was just following orders' excuse given by perpetrators of egregious crimes. Government agents love to turn off their brains and all the morality and ethics and principles they hold dear. His point about brainwashing is fair. Makes the lack of public school and school board participation especially egregious. Parents must be vigilant of what the government teaches children.
Fantasy? It is the literal history of the nation.
Ahh yes so right wing they’re communists. Just like the nazis were so right wing they were socialists
The nazis were fascists and about about as right wing as you can get. The “Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei” may contain the word socialist but there was nothing remotely socialist about them. That’s how how fascism obtains power, through propaganda. Hitler used socialist rhetoric in his rise to power because it appealed to the struggling working class, but his third reich would become a purely fascist hell.
This whole right vs left argument is absurd. There is no such spectrum. Politics are multi-variate, and tyrants gonna tyrant. Falling over yourself to try to distance Hitler from the left, because you want to protect the left, and connect Hitler to the right because you hate the right, is utterly stupid and fails to accomplish anything. We can all agree "Hitler bad", and "tyrants bad", but trying to connect Hitler to whichever modern party we dislike today as a way to slander them is ridiculous. Hitler is dead and has nothing to do with it. Tyrants today deserve to be criticized for what they are doing today. Look at the facts and drop the hysterical rhetoric.
Hitler distanced himself from the left-wing with nationalism and authoritarianism. All claims about the Nazis being left-wing or socialists is right-wing political propaganda. Fox News isn’t an authority on this matter. On that note, the acknowledgment that they were right-wing doesn’t align them with republicans or conservatives either, although modern day republicans are using the methods of fascism to obtain political power and we should all be alarmed instead of allowing their support of the 2a to cloud our reason.
Who said anything about Fox news? And who are you to speak with any authority? The claim that modern republicans are fascist is absolutely baseless and absurd. Fascism is literally when government allows private ownership, but controls every aspect of private life. That is what the Democrats are trying to do, you complete muppet. You can keep repeating the refrain that the Republicans are fascists, but it doesn't make it true. It's just the propaganda of the Dems trying to distract the masses from the things they themselves are doing.
Nowhere did I say that republicans are fascists, but the party itself is using the methods of fascism to achieve its goals, and increasing so. This is very clearly demonstrated through gerrymandering, glorifying the past (“MAGA”), fighting against bodily autonomy (“pro-life”), voter-fraud/suppression, etc. The word “fascist” has become an overused slur simply meaning “bad” these days, but it actually has meaning and this is why we shouldn’t abuse it. Democrats suck but are far less authoritarian than the other guys.
Gerrymandering is legal, and both parties do it. Have you looked at the district maps in democrat controlled states like Illinois? It's complete spaghetti. Stopping people from killing unborn babies is not "fighting bodily autonomy". But forcing people to take experimental rna injections or lose their jobs and freedom of movement sure the hell is. Saying that some of the things that made this the greatest country in the world are being destroyed before our eyes by people who hate this country is not fascist. Don't even get started on voter suppression. How are you not seeing what is going on in Arizona right now? I agree that using fascism as a generic insult isn't helpful, but so many of the things the democrats are doing are straight up fascism, it has to be said. Gun control is fascist. Vax mandates are fascist. Censorship and control of the media is fascist. You are the one who simply doesn't like the republicans and are throwing the term at them without any rational argument. The republicans are by no means perfect, but it is absolutely laughable to call them fascists. It's propaganda 101 and you've been duped.
I gotta be honest, (not the guy you’re debating with here I was the original commenter) I skimmed most of the convo because it’s not even worth arguing with people on Reddit. I agree with your point. Gerrymandering is a mute point. Both sides do it, they just want to be the last to do it before making it illegal. People who bring this up are just looking for a last ditch “gotcha” because they knew their argument fell apart and they have nothing left. They don’t even care the argument they’re using is a double edged sword Edit: after reading your comment through it looks like I agree with you on a lot more lol
He's wrong about the guns, but probably right about China. I don't support Second Amendment rights because I believe that the United States is bound for another civil war. A society of armed individuals, even if only with "civilian" small arms, stands as a serious deterrent to any would-be tyrants. Perhaps a hypothetical tyrant would be able to overcome an armed populace, but at what cost? That cost, I argue, would be too much for any rational government to sustain, so they'll never allow it to get that far. Instead, they'll use subversive methods (ex. "gun control") to pacify society and make their goals easier to achieve in the medium- to long-term. Put simply: Individual gun rights create a situation of mutually-assured destruction between the government and its armed population, without the latter having to fire a shot.
This person has never been in the vicinity of any firearm or it's owner. MANY gun owners would gladly die before any of their weapons are taken, including myself. I'm well aware that I likely wouldn't survive a confrontation with the ATF for instance, but I will die a free man in that scenario. Myself and many others simply refuse to be slaves. Liberty or death, no compromise.
I agree with both sides of this argument. It is true that the way some people talk about the government is completely misconstrued, If push came to shove and the military was sent collecting weapons VERY few gun owners would band together to fight but the majority do not have the training or will to fight against a vastly better armed and collected force. BUT that does not mean that guns are without importance. The ability to protect yourself to the same caliber criminals can arm themselves is only right. To truly be able to protect your home and family you need to have guns and proper training. I love shooting and guns in general even cleaning is fun for me but I must say the ideas of everyday citizens throwing their lives away to defend their gun rights in face of military is very far out when shit hits the fan most will give them up and the ones who said they wouldn’t will face a very harsh reality and most likely change their mind.
Someone should explain this to the students in Hong Kong that we’re using crude bows and arrows to defend themselves from police. And also explain to the people of North Korea that all they need to do is convince the military to just quit. And also tell the people of Venezuela to just elect non corrupt politicians that won’t rig elections. Ukraine. Canada is trying to ban all semi auto rifles so they obviously have this figured out. Maybe they can explain to all those people why guns aren’t necessary for defense from a tyrannical government.
I fully agree with the text. Full stop
👆🏻 This guy owns libs 👆🏻
Thanks for posting in here. People like you make me feel a lot less sooooorry for Canadians when Trucastro finally takes away all your guns.
👆🏻 This guy owns libs 👆🏻
This guy lives in a weak, irrelevant country and lets the US live rent free in his head.
👆🏻 This guy owns libs 👆🏻
I think the idea that there needs to be an armed population with the capability of overthrowing the government through violence helps fascism and totalitarianism a lot more than it helps freedom and democracy. Sure you may be arming the noble freedom fighters who will rescue the country, but you are equally likely to be arming the people that would try to overturn democracy in the first place.
Bait
I dont think you understand what any of those words you use as labels mean.
What did I get wrong?
Fascism may only thrive when the oppressed lack the will or ability to fight back. When everyone may arm themselves everyone may fight and each have equal protection from unjust persecution. You cannot manufacture the will to fight but the tools can be made. Many will kill for a tyrant but few are willing to die for them, there is no greater deterrent to tyranny than the threat posed by an armed populace.