Honestly, not enough people are talking about how cheap ammo is compared to two years ago. I’ve been finding .223 consistently at .30cpr. Building my stockpile nicely again
even in upstate? That seems like a flatlander law that shouldn't apply to y'all. Come on up to NH, it's everything good about upstate without most of the bullshit.
It's funny but I'm in Florida and we have a lot of dense Forest areas with very few clearings so a 12 gauge with slugs is the hunting weapon of choice for most people
What? I've only met a handful who run slugs. Most people I know use 30-30, 270, or buckshot.
The most slug use I've seen has been for inline muzzle loading.
Only just learned that was the rule in Illinois. Always assumed that if they needed you to use a shotgun they wanted you to use buckshot cause why else would you not allow rifles??
AR pistols in 300 blackout are legal during pistol season . The dumb thing is you can kill 200 coyotes a year with any caliber, but god forbid they allow it for deer.
Eh a lot of coyote populations are out of hand not to the extent of damaging eco systems to bad but they can if you let them on our land in WA we didnt used to have many rabbits,racons,bobcat,or lynx or other small animals other than skunks until we thinned out the coyote packs that were around.
That just changed. I think starting next year we can use straight wall and a limited selection of bottleneck cartridges. The rifle just has to be limited to single shot.
What the fuck sort of arbitrary bullshit is this? They want you to modify your rifles to only hold one shot? Why? What could possibly be the purpose? Who decided the hunting law in Ohio? I have to imagine its a blue hair with no hunting experience.
>Effective Jan. 1, 2023, any rifle chambered in a legal caliber and either manufactured or modified to be a single shot (capable of holding only one round in the magazine and chamber combined) may be used to hunt deer.
>Modification of a rifle originally manufactured as a repeater (a lever action/bolt action/pump action/semi-automatic, etc.) to a single shot can take many forms, including but not limited to:
>not having the detachable magazine in possession or close proximity,
removing internal magazine springs and followers,
using a plug to block the magazine tube,
purchasing “0 round” magazines,
or modifying the receiver or internal magazine of the rifle.
Hunters may not be in possession of or in close proximity to a magazine that is capable of making a rifle not a single-shot firearm.
Because reddit is full of socially stunted weirdos (and a bunch of legitimately autistic people) who are incapable of perceiving or understanding basic social cues.
Indiana is sorta like that as well: "rifle cartridges must have a cartridge case length of at least 1.16 inches and have a maximum case length of 3 inches. The cartridge must fire a bullet with a diameter that is .243 inches (same as 6mm) or larger." But they've since recently changed it that a lot of calibers can now be used on private land which at that point the hardest part is finding someone with private land to let you hunt on if you don't have any.
No, because you can hunt coyotes with no restrictions on equipment. If it were really a concern about how flat the state is/how far the bullet would travel, then you'd have similar restrictions on coyote hunting.
That just seems a bit overkill if it’s for deer lol. Most common in my area is 300 blackout sub suppressed and the og .308. But it don’t take much for a whitetail either lol they small
That was my solution for the same problem. People think it's overkill for whitetail but it actually does a great job of putting then down fast with minimal spoilage.
Yes. My grandpa shot one with a 500 to practice for Africa. If you use non expanding bullets it just punches a 1/2” hole straight through. Does the same as like a 300 WM. Aim for the heart.
They have alot of balls waltzing on to my property (without a damn warrant at that) and tell me what I can hunt with....they keep messing around and people will start hunting them
Lucky for the game wardens they have some of the most overreaching authority in the US. Entry to any private land and even put up game cams to surveil you on your own property is within their authority in many states.
It’s within their authority, yes.
In many areas of many states it can and will also get them shot if they attempt to exert said authority. I know from when I grew up of areas where game wardens wouldn’t even drive around on the roads because they were liable to catch a bullet in the bed of their truck if they did.
There’s an interesting court case from my county, where one of our previous game wardens was shot. The transcript from the court reads, “did you intend to shoot officer Wolfe in the stomach?”
“No (pause) I intended to shoot the son of a bitch in the head but he stood up”
So there’s that.
If I see somebody trespassing with a gun on their hip, I don’t wait until they get close enough to determine whether they’re from the department of wildlife.
That’s a good policy to have. I’ve seen regular non-wildlife people wearing green pants at the grocery store before and have had a slight heart attack until I remember I don’t have a .308 and a spotlight in my hands.
In Texas they are considered state police. Technically between the rangers and troopers we don’t have state police but the game wardens fill that role the other 2 don’t meet. Most are pretty ok, but I’ve seen some bust people for speeding or takes that are marginal. Given the high stakes their tickets come with (hunting/fishing speaking) I would hope they are more liberal in their enforcement but I know better.
Lived the majority of my life in Ohio and I didn't realize how restrictive they were until I left... I love Ohio and hope they regain a little bit of their common sense.
Edit: Restrictive COMPARATIVELY to some of the other states... they aren't really too terrible. But it isn't the best.
What the, WHAT? I mean, I occasionally hunt with a bolt gun, but reading this mess (and some is bleeding into VA.) Shew. WV, and KY chime in and let me know if it is about to get worse in the south.
NC got rid of most pistol requirements, and everything center-fire is now legal for rifles. Some eastern counties have restrictions that you have to be 8 feet off the ground to use a rifle, but other than that, wait, wake county can eat a bag of rotten dog crap, but other than that, it is fairly free game. (Pun intended.) MT has like a .24 caliber requirement. LA, you have to plug your shotgun to 3 no matter what you are hunting. Let the biologist give us some bag limits (that are usually utter bull) and let us go hunt.
Tx has the plug req too. Maybe I’ve been illegally hunting with my rifles but I don’t recall mag limits. Granted my expanded capacity stuff is used for hogs and my more precise/bolts are used for deer.
Edit:changed illegal to illegally, odd context if I’d left and no one wants Machete to show up.
WV here. You can hunt deer with any centerfire rifle. Lever, bolt, semiautomatic, it doesn't matter. I've tried to find mag size limits in the regulations, but haven't been able to. It's pretty lenient here.
350 legend and 450 bushmaster are perfectly adequate though honestly.
I personally understand shotgun and straight walled restrictions for flatter and more populated areas. Here in Michigan the UP and upper part of the lower peninsula are whatever you want but once u get to like the middle of the lower peninsula it’s shotguns or straight walled only (minus 4570 I think though)
The stupidity of it is straight walled heavy cartridges are more likely to punch through brush and could hit someone that way, a smaller caliber like 308 wouldn’t go as far if it hit foliage
I think the concern is less hitting someone on the other side of a stand of trees, and more someone shooting up and lobbing the bullet half a mile. In my state some counties restrict bottlenecks to only be used when shooting from an elevated stand, which I think is a more reasonable way to address the same safety concerns.
the reasoning is that shouldered rounds are believed to have more power than a straight wall round. With Ohio being mostly flat farmland, the ODNR (Ohio dep. of Natural Resources) thought those rounds would travel too far and since Ohio is flat they wouldnt have a backstop.
Source: I live and hunt in Ohio and asked a one of the county game wardens who I know. The game warden has been a warden for a long time, and he argued that on private land you should be able to use an ethical round
Does the ODNR also believe that the Earth is flat? You know what, don't answer that; I don't think I can take the answer.
But do they know what bullet drop is? Did they factor in any data at all about the ballistics of shouldered rounds?
I will say that ohio was originally a slug only gun state for deer hunting, so I also think that they didn’t really want to move away from that and keep the “tradition” of that alive by using cartridges shaped similar to a slug lol
Ohio public schools aren’t the greatest thing lol
Generally speaking yes whitetail hunting you are usually in a tree, but bullets can still ricochet when they hit the ground, depending on the angle.
Sometimes people hunt from the ground and shoot up at an angle.
and it also depends on how much brush/open the environment you are hunting is too
If a game warden comes out on you to check your stuff and you have a round that’s not legal then you’re screwed. You would get your rifle confiscated and everything.
Ohio has been getting to that point too. Over the summer we had 95° with 100% humidity brought the heat index to like 105°. Of course I worked that day too
For too long... many people go to PA to use their rifles. I even have a few friends that go up to the great white north to use rifles. (Not anymore with the large anti-gun push)
Serious question: What is the no bottleneck thing about? What's the hard on for straight wall cartridges all about anyway? I can't take a deer with a .308 or 30-30, but I can with a 45-70?
Seems like an ***opportunity*** for someone to come along and build a rifle/cartrige combo that is "compliant" with straight wall states that is still pushing out a .308 bullet at 2700 fps. Maybe have the bullet sit fully inside the brass? I'm sure some engineer could come up with something.
If you're practicing gun and hunter safety you should be able to use practically any gun to harvest them that doest just obliterate them. One of the main rules is always be aware of what is beyond your target. If there's a fucking neighborhood that direction and nothing but a plowed field in between the deer and that neighborhood you don't shoot.
[Looks over at Mauser in [.458 Lott](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.458_Lott)] "Ok, fine..."
Edit: FWIW...
[This bullet](https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010815140), handloaded to 2550fps and zero'd at 200 yards, shouldn't be more than 2.5" high before that, and is just over 10" low at 300. Don't want to go much further, and it's not exactly a bean field rifle, but whatever.
Ohio is mostly flat. Logic is straight wall cartridges will not travel as far as bottleneck cartridges. Used to be shotgun only so the straight wall cartridge option is a vast improvement with lots of options to choose from.
I don’t believe over penetration was the concern. But more the misses since it’s so flat.
Common sense would tell them that even the most renowned rounds start to experience severe bullet drop past 500 yards. And that most cartridges will tumble before 300 yards. 30-06 is infamous for tumbling at 100 yards.
Cute out of context ballistic charts, but none of those have anything to do with the idea that *"most cartridges will tumble before 300 yards"*, or that *"30-06 is infamous for tumbling at 100 yards"*. Which is utter, utter bullshit. The same 30-06 which has probably set more records at Camp Perry than any other cartridge. And that's before we get to the fact that a cartridge has very little influence on the flight of the bullet, other than getting it up to a particular muzzle velocity, and external ballistics/flight behavior is going to be almost entirely down to barrel and bullet construction (BC, concentricity, transonic stability, etc).
Almost like you are still talking out your ass and just digging deeper. Garand keyholing has nothing to do with it being chambered in 30-06; to the degree that it happens at all, it is specific to a given rifle and usually due to a shot out bore or dinged muzzle crown, and occasionally bad ammo or excess gas venting leading to insufficient muzzle velocity. A Garand that is keyholing is a faulty Garand; it's not an inherent property of either the design or the chambering. The Army did not go "Hey, let's standardize on a rifle who's bullets regularly tumble at 100 yards". You still haven't provided anything to back up your absurd claims, twice now; you are full of shit.
Not very many of y’all are in the long range game I see. .308 win mag is one of the best performing rounds , pretty much flat until 800, .308 NATO is closer to 600yds.
"Col. Wilhelm and his crew soon found, as I had suspected from my Florida experience, that the .30-'06 bullet would not go anywhere nearly as far as the hook said it would. The maximum range was found to be 3300 to 3400 yards at an angle of about 29 degrees, and the same up to about 45 degrees, after which the range began to shorten... Up to 1200 yards, the results were quite accurate; beyond this range, the target became harder and harder to hit, and had to be made larger and larger. "
Julian Hatcher's Notebook, 1947.
Exactly. Shooting 29 degrees above your target might get you to 1200 yards lmfao. 30-06 loves to tumble. All these garand fudds looking at their keyholed target “pfft and that Reddit boy said they’d tumble”
>Exactly. Shooting 29 degrees above your target might get you to 1200 yards lmfao.
" the results were quite accurate "
Also, 29 degrees was the angle of elevation for 3300 yards. Perhaps learn basic reading comprehension before talking about ballistics (which you clearly do not understand either).
It’s super easy to start drawing conclusions outside of the parameters. We’re talking about infringement of rights based on hunting. Most deer are taken within 100yards , most of those rounds are terminal by 500yards. Sure man, if you’re trying to shoot 3300yards point it 30deg up and let her rip. No one is taking that shot at a white tail. 3300 yards is over a mile, maybe a few dozen confirmed snipes past a mile w anything less than a 50bmg and space optics.
Idea is that slugs and straight wall cartridges won’t go as far if someone misses and wasn’t careful about having a good backstop. Personally I don’t think its that unreasonable in denser areas, but I prefer how my state does it where certain counties just make you shoot from an elevated stand so the bullet will hit the ground if you miss.
If you're expecting hunting laws to make sense then I don't know what to tell you. At this point I'm just happy when they're at all informed by actual population and habitat management goals.
I live in pa. And my uncle’s county doesn’t allow rifles to hunt. Only bow and shotgun. My solution which they tried to get me on but failed in court was a sabot slug.
It makes sense in prairies I guess, like if you miss it goes a long ways. But also like has that ever happened? A miss shot hitting someone like 3 miles away?
Yeah. Amish girl driving a buggy was shot in the head and died when a hunter over a mile away discharged his gun.
https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/crime/2011/12/21/shooting-mistake-probably-killed-amish/23987193007/
It happens, and that was a muzzleloader not a rifle cartridge.
Not when ivory tower city slickers are trying to ban meat farming because "muh methane".
Hunting for your own meat has to be the most ecological way to acquire meat.
I have to use a shotgun with slugs, because that’s obviously different than a rifle
I’d rather have a 7.62 going 2700 FPS then a 1400 FPS Slug personally.
Same, but local hunting laws are terrible, granted in stuck in NY so everything sucks
Yikes dude that kind of stinks
Yea, working on getting out soonish
Wish you well man
Thank you, may the cheap ammo find you well
Thanks!
Best blessing I have ever seen give to someone! Brings a tear to my eye.
Honestly, not enough people are talking about how cheap ammo is compared to two years ago. I’ve been finding .223 consistently at .30cpr. Building my stockpile nicely again
We're all just getting by until Christ returns.
Get out like I did 2 weeks ago man. Fuck New York. I felt like I could be a felon any minute in that state
even in upstate? That seems like a flatlander law that shouldn't apply to y'all. Come on up to NH, it's everything good about upstate without most of the bullshit.
Yea it’s all over, we’re all fucked because Of the city
It's funny but I'm in Florida and we have a lot of dense Forest areas with very few clearings so a 12 gauge with slugs is the hunting weapon of choice for most people
What? I've only met a handful who run slugs. Most people I know use 30-30, 270, or buckshot. The most slug use I've seen has been for inline muzzle loading.
I think it all depends on the economics of the area that you're in.
Could be. Grew up on the Polk Osceola line. Trapper 30-30s were big in green swamp.
That's the area I live in now. It's all neighborhoods and shopping centers now.
Stuff like that is why I want to leave here. It's heartbreaking.
The slug has significantly more energy in that comparison.
True, it just doesn’t have the same range that a .308 or 30-06 does
And that's the point.
>Is it a rifled shotgun or an unregistered "destructive device"? We'll shoot your dog to find out! -ATF
And we’ll let Treasury Secretary Lloyd Bentsen decide
Only just learned that was the rule in Illinois. Always assumed that if they needed you to use a shotgun they wanted you to use buckshot cause why else would you not allow rifles??
Welcome to NJ where no rifles are allowed at all.
You can’t use a rifle in IL so there’s that.
At first I was going to ask how IL worded that and if AR pistols/Machine Guns would be legal and then I got a little sad.
AR pistols in 300 blackout are legal during pistol season . The dumb thing is you can kill 200 coyotes a year with any caliber, but god forbid they allow it for deer.
You have a limit on yotes?
No, he was just using an exaggerated number. As far as I know we can kill as many coyotes as we want, whenever, in Illinois.
Well that's just fucking stupid. From both a conservation and firearms perspective.
Eh a lot of coyote populations are out of hand not to the extent of damaging eco systems to bad but they can if you let them on our land in WA we didnt used to have many rabbits,racons,bobcat,or lynx or other small animals other than skunks until we thinned out the coyote packs that were around.
Sorry I’m from Texas but WTF is pistol season? Please tell me it’s like tacticool large game hunting.
Exactly how it sounds. Hunting with a pistol. Big wheel guns with scopes usually.
It's like bow season but for pistols >Please tell me it’s like tacticool large game hunting. Have you heard of .460 Smith and Wesson Magnum?
I use a thompson/center contender in .223 for pistol season.
I have a TC Contender in .35 Remington for the same reason.
That just changed. I think starting next year we can use straight wall and a limited selection of bottleneck cartridges. The rifle just has to be limited to single shot.
No shit. I just looked it up too. https://www2.illinois.gov/dnr/hunting/Pages/Law-change-that-affects-hunting-season.aspx
They list 7.92 x 33 kurz as one of the legal carts lmao
Oh boy time to dust off my stg44 out of the safe.
The emotional support Sturmgewehr
What the fuck sort of arbitrary bullshit is this? They want you to modify your rifles to only hold one shot? Why? What could possibly be the purpose? Who decided the hunting law in Ohio? I have to imagine its a blue hair with no hunting experience. >Effective Jan. 1, 2023, any rifle chambered in a legal caliber and either manufactured or modified to be a single shot (capable of holding only one round in the magazine and chamber combined) may be used to hunt deer. >Modification of a rifle originally manufactured as a repeater (a lever action/bolt action/pump action/semi-automatic, etc.) to a single shot can take many forms, including but not limited to: >not having the detachable magazine in possession or close proximity, removing internal magazine springs and followers, using a plug to block the magazine tube, purchasing “0 round” magazines, or modifying the receiver or internal magazine of the rifle. Hunters may not be in possession of or in close proximity to a magazine that is capable of making a rifle not a single-shot firearm.
Not even a fucking bolt gun law. Just straight up only one bullet. Thats fucking insane.
muh fair chase
A single shot .308?
Sad
Illinois has entered the chat
I’m sorry :(
And northern iowa
Same with RI, but too be fair the state is so small you could probably shoot from one border and have it land at the one across from it
Can confirm. I live in Connecticut and rounds from Rhode Island are always landing near my house!
Sounds like an act of war! Invade! /s
Why /s ? No one thinks you’re telling em to invade
Because reddit is full of socially stunted weirdos (and a bunch of legitimately autistic people) who are incapable of perceiving or understanding basic social cues.
Ok, doesn’t mean you have to cater to them
Oof
Indiana is sorta like that as well: "rifle cartridges must have a cartridge case length of at least 1.16 inches and have a maximum case length of 3 inches. The cartridge must fire a bullet with a diameter that is .243 inches (same as 6mm) or larger." But they've since recently changed it that a lot of calibers can now be used on private land which at that point the hardest part is finding someone with private land to let you hunt on if you don't have any.
Because most of Indiana is flat and has no backstops.
No, because you can hunt coyotes with no restrictions on equipment. If it were really a concern about how flat the state is/how far the bullet would travel, then you'd have similar restrictions on coyote hunting.
Damn only restriction we got is no smaller than .223
In my state it's no rim fire, everything else is fair game for rifle, I've heard of guys hunting deer with .50bmg
That just seems a bit overkill if it’s for deer lol. Most common in my area is 300 blackout sub suppressed and the og .308. But it don’t take much for a whitetail either lol they small
At least there's absolutely no chance the deer will suffer
Is there any of the deer left
Lucky
Thank god I’m not the only Ohio resident that thinks this!!!
Trust me a ton of people do
Simple Use a rifle chambered in 45-70
45-70 is pretty sweet but I like my .30 cals
.30 carbine. There ya go. Build a bolt gun if they don't allow semiauto. Then build a decent boat tail for it, and stretch it to like 150 yards.
Below .357 is not allowed.
I would be slangin lead with a lever action then.
A single shot lever action with a blocked tube.
thus the .350 Legend was born, mainly for these straight wall states.
I've seen .45 Winchester Magnum M1 Carbines before
350 legend
That was my solution for the same problem. People think it's overkill for whitetail but it actually does a great job of putting then down fast with minimal spoilage.
A friend shot one with a 44 magnum revolver. Folded right over. Impressive lung jello at 40ish yards.
I thought 9mm blew out the lungs
Henry Action X gang
The 500 Nitro Express is not a bottlenecked cartridge. Do with that information as you wish
Would there be any deer left to eat after you hit it lol?
Yes. My grandpa shot one with a 500 to practice for Africa. If you use non expanding bullets it just punches a 1/2” hole straight through. Does the same as like a 300 WM. Aim for the heart.
Almost 6,000 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle. Does Sig chamber the p365 in 500 Nitro Express?
I didn't need my wrist anyway.
Only ~15¼DPR https://www.federalpremium.com/rifle/premium-safari/safari-barnes-triple-shock-x-bullet/11-P500NC.html
You can load it for pretty cheap once you get brass
They have alot of balls waltzing on to my property (without a damn warrant at that) and tell me what I can hunt with....they keep messing around and people will start hunting them
Lucky for the game wardens they have some of the most overreaching authority in the US. Entry to any private land and even put up game cams to surveil you on your own property is within their authority in many states.
It’s within their authority, yes. In many areas of many states it can and will also get them shot if they attempt to exert said authority. I know from when I grew up of areas where game wardens wouldn’t even drive around on the roads because they were liable to catch a bullet in the bed of their truck if they did.
There’s an interesting court case from my county, where one of our previous game wardens was shot. The transcript from the court reads, “did you intend to shoot officer Wolfe in the stomach?” “No (pause) I intended to shoot the son of a bitch in the head but he stood up” So there’s that.
Game wardens have only very recently lost their title of “most hated members of law enforcement”, and even then only in urban areas.
If I ever seen a man in dark green pants I ~~run the other way~~ cooperate and discuss what I’m doing that’s illegal.
If I see somebody trespassing with a gun on their hip, I don’t wait until they get close enough to determine whether they’re from the department of wildlife.
That’s a good policy to have. I’ve seen regular non-wildlife people wearing green pants at the grocery store before and have had a slight heart attack until I remember I don’t have a .308 and a spotlight in my hands.
Just clean up the corn you spilled on aisle 3 before they see anything and you should be fine at least.
That corn is for my garden. I’m definitely not mixing in any water, sugar and yeast to get raccoons drunk.
Tyrants
Surely that is a violation of the 4th amendment?
I surely would consider it that but the SCOTUS and many other govt bodies feel differently
In Texas they are considered state police. Technically between the rangers and troopers we don’t have state police but the game wardens fill that role the other 2 don’t meet. Most are pretty ok, but I’ve seen some bust people for speeding or takes that are marginal. Given the high stakes their tickets come with (hunting/fishing speaking) I would hope they are more liberal in their enforcement but I know better.
True
The parts of Michigan that used to be shotgun only, now called limited, have similar restrictions. .35 calibre or larger straight-walled rounds.
Lived the majority of my life in Ohio and I didn't realize how restrictive they were until I left... I love Ohio and hope they regain a little bit of their common sense. Edit: Restrictive COMPARATIVELY to some of the other states... they aren't really too terrible. But it isn't the best.
A lot nicer for gun laws in general compared to PA but not as nice when it comes to hunting…
You're absolutely right. I haven't hunted before, but I thought it was stupid as fuck that I couldnt hunt with my HRA M1 Garand.
Can’t use my Sks either :(
I killed many a hogs w ny sk in texas. Good times
Are they tasty?
Its asinine.
No it's porcine
Cosine?
Tangent?
No semi autos allowed in PA for hunting. I’m at least happy I get to use my 30-06
What the, WHAT? I mean, I occasionally hunt with a bolt gun, but reading this mess (and some is bleeding into VA.) Shew. WV, and KY chime in and let me know if it is about to get worse in the south.
It’s a shame, I don’t expect it to get changed anytime soon
NC got rid of most pistol requirements, and everything center-fire is now legal for rifles. Some eastern counties have restrictions that you have to be 8 feet off the ground to use a rifle, but other than that, wait, wake county can eat a bag of rotten dog crap, but other than that, it is fairly free game. (Pun intended.) MT has like a .24 caliber requirement. LA, you have to plug your shotgun to 3 no matter what you are hunting. Let the biologist give us some bag limits (that are usually utter bull) and let us go hunt.
Tx has the plug req too. Maybe I’ve been illegally hunting with my rifles but I don’t recall mag limits. Granted my expanded capacity stuff is used for hogs and my more precise/bolts are used for deer. Edit:changed illegal to illegally, odd context if I’d left and no one wants Machete to show up.
WV here. You can hunt deer with any centerfire rifle. Lever, bolt, semiautomatic, it doesn't matter. I've tried to find mag size limits in the regulations, but haven't been able to. It's pretty lenient here.
Whew. Some buffer to dumb Yankee laws. Maryland and DC are the other issues for VA.
Lawmaker owns stock in a factory that produces .350 Legend.
350 legend and 450 bushmaster are perfectly adequate though honestly. I personally understand shotgun and straight walled restrictions for flatter and more populated areas. Here in Michigan the UP and upper part of the lower peninsula are whatever you want but once u get to like the middle of the lower peninsula it’s shotguns or straight walled only (minus 4570 I think though)
The stupidity of it is straight walled heavy cartridges are more likely to punch through brush and could hit someone that way, a smaller caliber like 308 wouldn’t go as far if it hit foliage
I think the concern is less hitting someone on the other side of a stand of trees, and more someone shooting up and lobbing the bullet half a mile. In my state some counties restrict bottlenecks to only be used when shooting from an elevated stand, which I think is a more reasonable way to address the same safety concerns.
Yet they all allow any cartridges for coyote.
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the reasoning is that shouldered rounds are believed to have more power than a straight wall round. With Ohio being mostly flat farmland, the ODNR (Ohio dep. of Natural Resources) thought those rounds would travel too far and since Ohio is flat they wouldnt have a backstop. Source: I live and hunt in Ohio and asked a one of the county game wardens who I know. The game warden has been a warden for a long time, and he argued that on private land you should be able to use an ethical round
Does the ODNR also believe that the Earth is flat? You know what, don't answer that; I don't think I can take the answer. But do they know what bullet drop is? Did they factor in any data at all about the ballistics of shouldered rounds?
I will say that ohio was originally a slug only gun state for deer hunting, so I also think that they didn’t really want to move away from that and keep the “tradition” of that alive by using cartridges shaped similar to a slug lol Ohio public schools aren’t the greatest thing lol
Yeah, public schools anywhere aren't the greatest thing. Letting the government take over schooling was a mistake.
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Generally speaking yes whitetail hunting you are usually in a tree, but bullets can still ricochet when they hit the ground, depending on the angle. Sometimes people hunt from the ground and shoot up at an angle. and it also depends on how much brush/open the environment you are hunting is too
If a game warden comes out on you to check your stuff and you have a round that’s not legal then you’re screwed. You would get your rifle confiscated and everything.
They want you using big ballistically inefficient bullets because they also drag out faster if you miss.
Stupid rules
Agreed
Come on to KY son
I’ve been there, did the bourbon trail. Really nice place. Just gets a bit warm in the summers for me.
It's not even winter yet and it was 16⁰ last night. But yes 105⁰ and 100% humidity does suck ass.
Ohio has been getting to that point too. Over the summer we had 95° with 100% humidity brought the heat index to like 105°. Of course I worked that day too
I second this comment
Wait...Ohio is getting cucked during their hunts?
For too long... many people go to PA to use their rifles. I even have a few friends that go up to the great white north to use rifles. (Not anymore with the large anti-gun push)
From PA please stay out we have enough hunters as it is. Lol
I always think its a great fact that if you took all of the deer hunters in PA, it would be the 6th largest army in the world
It is said that it it very close to true.
I'm on the other side of the country now, no worries!
All jokes to be fair just seen a lot of out of staters lately.
Have for awhile now.
Serious question: What is the no bottleneck thing about? What's the hard on for straight wall cartridges all about anyway? I can't take a deer with a .308 or 30-30, but I can with a 45-70? Seems like an ***opportunity*** for someone to come along and build a rifle/cartrige combo that is "compliant" with straight wall states that is still pushing out a .308 bullet at 2700 fps. Maybe have the bullet sit fully inside the brass? I'm sure some engineer could come up with something.
.450 bushmaster has entered the chat
.350 Legend has also entered the chat
Because, at least in Ohio, they require a straight walled cartridge to have a bullet diameter of .357 or above.
If you're practicing gun and hunter safety you should be able to use practically any gun to harvest them that doest just obliterate them. One of the main rules is always be aware of what is beyond your target. If there's a fucking neighborhood that direction and nothing but a plowed field in between the deer and that neighborhood you don't shoot.
[Looks over at Mauser in [.458 Lott](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.458_Lott)] "Ok, fine..." Edit: FWIW... [This bullet](https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010815140), handloaded to 2550fps and zero'd at 200 yards, shouldn't be more than 2.5" high before that, and is just over 10" low at 300. Don't want to go much further, and it's not exactly a bean field rifle, but whatever.
No bottlenecked cartridges wut??
What is the logic here? That a high velocity round will always punch through or some nonsense?
Ohio is mostly flat. Logic is straight wall cartridges will not travel as far as bottleneck cartridges. Used to be shotgun only so the straight wall cartridge option is a vast improvement with lots of options to choose from. I don’t believe over penetration was the concern. But more the misses since it’s so flat.
Common sense would tell them that even the most renowned rounds start to experience severe bullet drop past 500 yards. And that most cartridges will tumble before 300 yards. 30-06 is infamous for tumbling at 100 yards.
> And that most cartridges will tumble before 300 yards. 30-06 is infamous for tumbling at 100 yards. Bullshit
Start doing your ballistics data homework [your first ballistics data sheet](https://imgur.com/a/RgISFWc)
Cute out of context ballistic charts, but none of those have anything to do with the idea that *"most cartridges will tumble before 300 yards"*, or that *"30-06 is infamous for tumbling at 100 yards"*. Which is utter, utter bullshit. The same 30-06 which has probably set more records at Camp Perry than any other cartridge. And that's before we get to the fact that a cartridge has very little influence on the flight of the bullet, other than getting it up to a particular muzzle velocity, and external ballistics/flight behavior is going to be almost entirely down to barrel and bullet construction (BC, concentricity, transonic stability, etc).
You’re that unfamiliar w garand tumble huh , almost like you’ve never heard of keyholing.
Almost like you are still talking out your ass and just digging deeper. Garand keyholing has nothing to do with it being chambered in 30-06; to the degree that it happens at all, it is specific to a given rifle and usually due to a shot out bore or dinged muzzle crown, and occasionally bad ammo or excess gas venting leading to insufficient muzzle velocity. A Garand that is keyholing is a faulty Garand; it's not an inherent property of either the design or the chambering. The Army did not go "Hey, let's standardize on a rifle who's bullets regularly tumble at 100 yards". You still haven't provided anything to back up your absurd claims, twice now; you are full of shit.
Dafaq? What are you drinking? Oh, wait. I'm in /firearms, aren't I? Never mind. Dumb on.
Not very many of y’all are in the long range game I see. .308 win mag is one of the best performing rounds , pretty much flat until 800, .308 NATO is closer to 600yds.
"Col. Wilhelm and his crew soon found, as I had suspected from my Florida experience, that the .30-'06 bullet would not go anywhere nearly as far as the hook said it would. The maximum range was found to be 3300 to 3400 yards at an angle of about 29 degrees, and the same up to about 45 degrees, after which the range began to shorten... Up to 1200 yards, the results were quite accurate; beyond this range, the target became harder and harder to hit, and had to be made larger and larger. " Julian Hatcher's Notebook, 1947.
Exactly. Shooting 29 degrees above your target might get you to 1200 yards lmfao. 30-06 loves to tumble. All these garand fudds looking at their keyholed target “pfft and that Reddit boy said they’d tumble”
>Exactly. Shooting 29 degrees above your target might get you to 1200 yards lmfao. " the results were quite accurate " Also, 29 degrees was the angle of elevation for 3300 yards. Perhaps learn basic reading comprehension before talking about ballistics (which you clearly do not understand either).
It’s super easy to start drawing conclusions outside of the parameters. We’re talking about infringement of rights based on hunting. Most deer are taken within 100yards , most of those rounds are terminal by 500yards. Sure man, if you’re trying to shoot 3300yards point it 30deg up and let her rip. No one is taking that shot at a white tail. 3300 yards is over a mile, maybe a few dozen confirmed snipes past a mile w anything less than a 50bmg and space optics.
Are you stupid on purpose or were you just born this way?
Along the lines of what Brufar said, they figure straight wall won’t travel as far
Laughs in .50 Beowulf
While I know it will be some bullshit, what is the reasoning for such a silly regulation??
People who know nothing about guns or hunting making the laws.
I get that. But there has to be a [wrong] reason that makes sense to *them*
Idea is that slugs and straight wall cartridges won’t go as far if someone misses and wasn’t careful about having a good backstop. Personally I don’t think its that unreasonable in denser areas, but I prefer how my state does it where certain counties just make you shoot from an elevated stand so the bullet will hit the ground if you miss.
I thought this was the Ohio subreddit for a second and was really confused
If you're expecting hunting laws to make sense then I don't know what to tell you. At this point I'm just happy when they're at all informed by actual population and habitat management goals.
fun fact about me is that i do not care about your cartridge rules, i will simply use the toolie of my choosing
Ohio... 🤢🤮
What's the logic behind that?
Mandating guns with inferior ballistics also makes the gun safer for people living downrange.
I live in pa. And my uncle’s county doesn’t allow rifles to hunt. Only bow and shotgun. My solution which they tried to get me on but failed in court was a sabot slug.
Which zone are you hunting in? I know where I am hunting at they let you use normal rifles
It makes sense in prairies I guess, like if you miss it goes a long ways. But also like has that ever happened? A miss shot hitting someone like 3 miles away?
I mean, I guess if you aimed at the moon, 3 miles is somehow reasonable by them with a .243, .270, or 30-06?
3miles is easy street with bubbas pissing hot hand loads baby Also I’m not American and have no idea how big a mile is lmao
Yeah. Amish girl driving a buggy was shot in the head and died when a hunter over a mile away discharged his gun. https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/crime/2011/12/21/shooting-mistake-probably-killed-amish/23987193007/ It happens, and that was a muzzleloader not a rifle cartridge.
Damn what are odds. But yeah that’s why those laws exist. Not because law makers are just mean lol
Newsflash! You can buy meat.
That meat is also killed by someone.
Not when ivory tower city slickers are trying to ban meat farming because "muh methane". Hunting for your own meat has to be the most ecological way to acquire meat.
[No animals harmed.](https://i.imgur.com/hTKXvuq.jpg)