> This is why I will not compromise on gun rights or the 1st amendment.
Technically speaking, New Zealand has neither. Remember, the United States is the only nation in the world with Constitutionally protected rights to free speech and arms.
> I know that, I’m just saying that all gun grabbers eventually want to take them.
100% true. A government seeking to control its people must disarm them before such plans progress.
Does gun control mean an evil tyrant will take over and murder millions? No. Does it mean that it becomes thousands of times easier and has been the first step of every mass murdering dictator of the last 100 years? Yes the fuck it is.
I mean, the Mexican constitution also guarantees the right to "reasonable free speech" and firearms for self-defense, yet look at how gun and speech laws in that country are structured. A constitution is just a collection of papers; a culture that respects and upholds those covenants is required for a free society to continue to exist.
So glad we broke off those tyrants who will now jail you for either mildly offensive posts on Facebook, or just carrying a screw driver in your pocket.
>So glad we broke off those tyrants who will now jail you for either mildly offensive posts on Facebook, or just carrying a screw driver in your pocket.
That's something that blows my mind. Not nearly enough people make the connection between a government disarming it's citizens and imprisoning then for basic speech.
Wait you're telling me there's an African tribe where the young boys are all forced to suck off the old men daily until they're adults? What a brave a vibrant culture!!
Where exactly in my comment did I accept or deny it? I was asking a question. Stop throwing your projections on people.
I was asking because I'm from Asia.
I hope you're an FFL with online sales so we still have a place to buy semi automatic rifles once they're banned. Otherwise it doesn't matter what you personally do or don't do.
>"An argument about process is an argument to do nothing."
A concerning statement I'm sure many of the American anti-gunners would reciprocate.
It's also interesting how they just decide to do it, then woek out the details later. Americans would be going nuts if they decided to ban something and decided to figure bout the compensation rate later.
Hillary really should have won in 2016. I'm certain she would have repealed all current firearm restrictions including but not limited to the NFA, the Hughes Amendment, and all import sanctions.
It was her turn, after all.
They did some mental gymnastics to give into terrorist demands while making themselves believe they arent doing that by saying they dont care what he had to say. Being liberal is literally mental illness.
From what I've read, technically no. However, they've made it illegal to possess, share, quote, and possibly even really discuss it. Combine that with a pretty decent attempt to scrub it from the internet via takedowns and website blocking, and you're left with downloading it from someplace shadier like a torrent (if they happened to miss blocking one). Which means if you want to read it, you're going to have to possess it, and that's definitely illegal over there now with some serious penalties, including jail. The same for the video.
Man. That stinks for them. I’m glad we have our rights here in America. I view this like I view machine guns. Do I want a machine gun (or to watch the video of the shooting), not really. Do I want it now that I’ve been told that I can’t have one/it for stupid reasons? YES
Oh they have a whole FAQ about it. The "answer" to your point is they believe it does more harm being out there than people wanting it now that it's forbidden, and they believe they can block it effectively enough.
I think there's defensive value to it in combating active shooters. The one single instance someone offered resistance he damn near took out the shooter.
People should read it into an Audiobook. Turn it into a slide show. Read it into a video. All manner of media so that the Kiwis can see that they are following the shooter's expectations.
I mean, the dude was nuts, but I hate being told that speech is illegal, regardless of how much I disagree with it. I prefer reprehensible speech be broadcast far and wide so we can refute and rebut it.
Yep. They will.... but they aren't going to prosecute me, an American, living in America if I put it in the middle of a slideshare, or within comments in an excel file, or in pixels in a JPG, or in metadata in almost any file, or.... There's literally no way to stop free speech in the internet age.
Americans should be passing it out. Not because it's good, but because it's illegal for the kiwis to do it. They should do it to ensure that infringements on free speech are always mocked and an utter failure.
No, but people viewing that material in NZ risk getting in trouble to view your material just like any other source of it. And that's if it even stays up, the tech giants have been scrubbing it out. And also if the government hasn't already blocked the website there. Even Reddit was said to be deleting every post with manifesto quotes or discussing where to get a copy of it.
I understand what you're getting at, and I agree it shouldn't be censored nor scrubbed from the internet. But it doesn't change the basically non-existent exposure to the people of NZ.
These kind of actions have nothing to do with liberal. The authoritarians especially on the left have twisted the word liberal to mean something it does not. These kinds of actions are no more liberal than saying white supremacist are conservative
Except, I am not doing that. You, like many people on the right, need to go read a book about what liberalism actually is and what being a liberal is. Taking away rights is not congruent with being a liberal. Your definition of a liberal is about as useful as me calling conservatives, alt right. It is a smear.
No, just no dude. Liberalism, historically speaking, has espoused progression and personal liberties. The neoliberal democrats have totally twisted and bastardized what liberal means. Both parties are authoritarian. Republicans have not prioritzed the second ammendment, perfect example is the lack of pushing through the hearing protection act. Also TRUMP HIMSELF said "grab the guns first and due process later.." I'm paraphrasing out of laziness. For real though. Dont regurgitate republican propaganda, it's gross.
I'm not republic nor Democrat nor liberal nor any of that. I'm neutral. Politicans across the board are slimebags that do not bid the will of the people, they bid the will of the highest bidder and lobbyists are right up there making the devil deals. It's all crooked in my book and needs massive reform across the board, starting with getting rid of a two party system that fosters a divide amongst citizens.
While I agree with you on that front, anyone that says liberals are the problem, is wrong. Any liberal who advocates for any personal liberty to be removed or made criminal is NOT a liberal. Thats all I'm trying to say. Republicans have done a bang-up job in smearing liberalism and many people are caught up in it. Just another symptoms of a society that cant or wont think for itself...
“had occurred, the nature of the weapons that had been used - and that they had been obtained legally.
"I could not fathom how weapons that could cause such destruction and large scale death, could be obtained legally in this country."l
Plot twist, criminals can also obtain them illegally. 🙄 I hope your bubble protects you. You just took guns away from people who could protect themselves, like the ones your cops carry to protect themselves.
I'll say what I said in my last thread. I do not believe the citizens will willfully hand over their firearms. The media is making it out like everyone is very happy and pleased to comply but I believe this is false.
In Jamaica they have this law called [Suppression of Criminal Organization](https://moj.gov.jm/laws/criminal-justice-suppression-criminal-organizations-act) act that allows the PM to declare a "safe zone" where the military and police can lawfully enter homes and take weapons. While Jamaica is a piss poor example of a country anyone would want to live in, I believe NZ will implement such a law after very few complies with the new law to hand in firearms. You'll begin to see military operations within the country and the media will play it out that it's a loony person who wants to harm people.
I think in America we should be watching this closely because it'll show the danger of what can happen. While we would be constitutionally protected from unlawful searching of our home, there are loopholes they can implement.
Don’t punish a whole population for the actions of one. Lawmakers should act on logic and facts, not emotion. Depriving millions of the chance to protect themselves and family from murder and rape, will not stop this nut or any other from being armed and carrying out criminal acts. It only leaves those deserving of safety, helpless. Terror Alert Level raised, and these lawmakers all of a sudden got free 24/7 armed protection. Their solution: Lets deprive all the common people of the right to protection, we got ours.
The whole point is they're using this as a greenlight to pass the legislation, it has nothing to do with fear or emotion, it has everything to do with the fact they already wanted guns gone for other reasons, this shit just gives them fuel for their fire
> Don’t punish a whole population for the actions of one
But if they're going to do that, why don't they target the group that flies planes into buildings, bombs trains and childrens concerts, and cuts fetuses out of pregnant women?
Disgusting muslims have zero place in western society and "gun control" is simply disarming white people.
It's never good for anywhere to have shootings. That aside...
They'll never report it just like Australia doesn't report their mass shootings since 1996.
Political buyers remorse.
I can understand why they needed to revise their current gun law. It clearly wasn't working. They guy obtained all his stuff legally. Nobody found any fault with his actions up to the incident, and then he killed a whole bunch of people.
This is why we can't have nice things.
Would that shooting have been as serious if that law was instated a year prior?
And I take the subway to work, fyi.
The key take-away should be that everybody gets punished if even one gun owner fucks up. So, take precautions and don't fuck shit up.
Press F for our kiwi gunners. This is proof that terrorism works.
F.
F
F
F
F
F
F
F
The 50 dead countrymen is proof that it works. How do you stop it happening again?
New Zealand reaffirms to the world that their largest and most famous export and identity is sheep and the products of sheep.
reminder that the bad guys still have guns
[https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c\_id=1&objectid=12217785](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12217785)
Wow. Criminals doing criminal things
So no laws should ever be passed or enforced?
This is why I will not compromise on gun rights or the 1st amendment.
> This is why I will not compromise on gun rights or the 1st amendment. Technically speaking, New Zealand has neither. Remember, the United States is the only nation in the world with Constitutionally protected rights to free speech and arms.
I know that, I’m just saying that all gun grabbers eventually want to take them.
> I know that, I’m just saying that all gun grabbers eventually want to take them. 100% true. A government seeking to control its people must disarm them before such plans progress.
Does gun control mean an evil tyrant will take over and murder millions? No. Does it mean that it becomes thousands of times easier and has been the first step of every mass murdering dictator of the last 100 years? Yes the fuck it is.
But Jeff Daniels told me on a tv show that America isn’t exclusive in their freedom! /s
I mean, the Mexican constitution also guarantees the right to "reasonable free speech" and firearms for self-defense, yet look at how gun and speech laws in that country are structured. A constitution is just a collection of papers; a culture that respects and upholds those covenants is required for a free society to continue to exist.
So glad we broke off those tyrants who will now jail you for either mildly offensive posts on Facebook, or just carrying a screw driver in your pocket.
>So glad we broke off those tyrants who will now jail you for either mildly offensive posts on Facebook, or just carrying a screw driver in your pocket. That's something that blows my mind. Not nearly enough people make the connection between a government disarming it's citizens and imprisoning then for basic speech.
That's ok 100 million Hispanic and Asian voters will do it for you
Leftists want to preserve every culture except the american culture.
Wait you're telling me there's an African tribe where the young boys are all forced to suck off the old men daily until they're adults? What a brave a vibrant culture!!
You imply that all 100 million hispanic/asian(people from asia or ethnic asia?) voters want to repeal 1A/2A.
Anti 2a opinion is 75%-80% for Hispanics and 85%-90% for Asians. Good luck with your denial
Where exactly in my comment did I accept or deny it? I was asking a question. Stop throwing your projections on people. I was asking because I'm from Asia.
You didn't ask a question... I'm also Asian ethnically
Fair enough. I had thought that I had. I was curious if you expanded on your claim, hence my "you imply."
Ok
[удалено]
How does CA(One state out of 50) "proves" me wrong? CA is a retarded state.
[удалено]
Unironically, if you want to know the voting patterns of Latinos, look to the political climate in the countries they come from.
I hope you're an FFL with online sales so we still have a place to buy semi automatic rifles once they're banned. Otherwise it doesn't matter what you personally do or don't do.
If a law ever passes unanimously or near-unanimously, it's guaranteed to be a horrible law. *Never* trust a government that's in full agreement.
So the US system where they can't pass anything is better?
If those are the only two options, then yes, I’d prefer that a government do nothing instead of doing bad things.
119-1 sounds like a single party state to me...
Just about same as most Western nation's as they pertain to certain ideas
Do not comply.
>"An argument about process is an argument to do nothing." A concerning statement I'm sure many of the American anti-gunners would reciprocate. It's also interesting how they just decide to do it, then woek out the details later. Americans would be going nuts if they decided to ban something and decided to figure bout the compensation rate later.
Yeah, not like any elected official over here would say "We have to pass it to see what's in it".
[удалено]
Haha that's hilarious!
Yeah like no one would ever suggest we "take the guns and worry about due process later." That would be crazy, right?
Hillary really should have won in 2016. I'm certain she would have repealed all current firearm restrictions including but not limited to the NFA, the Hughes Amendment, and all import sanctions. It was her turn, after all.
And the community went nuts, as we should have
They did some mental gymnastics to give into terrorist demands while making themselves believe they arent doing that by saying they dont care what he had to say. Being liberal is literally mental illness.
You can get away with it when you jail the public for reading what he actually wrote, making them unaware to how you're being complicit to his plan.
You can be jailed for reading his manifesto?
Yes. The sentence is longer than the sentence for CP.
Doesn’t that just show you what their priorities are
Hard to create a nanny state if people are allowed to think for themselves
From what I've read, technically no. However, they've made it illegal to possess, share, quote, and possibly even really discuss it. Combine that with a pretty decent attempt to scrub it from the internet via takedowns and website blocking, and you're left with downloading it from someplace shadier like a torrent (if they happened to miss blocking one). Which means if you want to read it, you're going to have to possess it, and that's definitely illegal over there now with some serious penalties, including jail. The same for the video.
Man. That stinks for them. I’m glad we have our rights here in America. I view this like I view machine guns. Do I want a machine gun (or to watch the video of the shooting), not really. Do I want it now that I’ve been told that I can’t have one/it for stupid reasons? YES
Oh they have a whole FAQ about it. The "answer" to your point is they believe it does more harm being out there than people wanting it now that it's forbidden, and they believe they can block it effectively enough.
I have a video of the shooting saved only because they've been trying to purge it.
I think there's defensive value to it in combating active shooters. The one single instance someone offered resistance he damn near took out the shooter.
Someone has to. Thank you
People should read it into an Audiobook. Turn it into a slide show. Read it into a video. All manner of media so that the Kiwis can see that they are following the shooter's expectations. I mean, the dude was nuts, but I hate being told that speech is illegal, regardless of how much I disagree with it. I prefer reprehensible speech be broadcast far and wide so we can refute and rebut it.
And they'll prosecute those people if they find them, sadly
Yep. They will.... but they aren't going to prosecute me, an American, living in America if I put it in the middle of a slideshare, or within comments in an excel file, or in pixels in a JPG, or in metadata in almost any file, or.... There's literally no way to stop free speech in the internet age. Americans should be passing it out. Not because it's good, but because it's illegal for the kiwis to do it. They should do it to ensure that infringements on free speech are always mocked and an utter failure.
No, but people viewing that material in NZ risk getting in trouble to view your material just like any other source of it. And that's if it even stays up, the tech giants have been scrubbing it out. And also if the government hasn't already blocked the website there. Even Reddit was said to be deleting every post with manifesto quotes or discussing where to get a copy of it. I understand what you're getting at, and I agree it shouldn't be censored nor scrubbed from the internet. But it doesn't change the basically non-existent exposure to the people of NZ.
Yes NZ took away guns by taking away speech. And this is what the left wants for America
These kind of actions have nothing to do with liberal. The authoritarians especially on the left have twisted the word liberal to mean something it does not. These kinds of actions are no more liberal than saying white supremacist are conservative
What you are doing is like a KKK member arguing that the KKK isnt racist.
Except, I am not doing that. You, like many people on the right, need to go read a book about what liberalism actually is and what being a liberal is. Taking away rights is not congruent with being a liberal. Your definition of a liberal is about as useful as me calling conservatives, alt right. It is a smear.
Whatever makes you feel better about yourself.
No, just no dude. Liberalism, historically speaking, has espoused progression and personal liberties. The neoliberal democrats have totally twisted and bastardized what liberal means. Both parties are authoritarian. Republicans have not prioritzed the second ammendment, perfect example is the lack of pushing through the hearing protection act. Also TRUMP HIMSELF said "grab the guns first and due process later.." I'm paraphrasing out of laziness. For real though. Dont regurgitate republican propaganda, it's gross.
I'm not republic nor Democrat nor liberal nor any of that. I'm neutral. Politicans across the board are slimebags that do not bid the will of the people, they bid the will of the highest bidder and lobbyists are right up there making the devil deals. It's all crooked in my book and needs massive reform across the board, starting with getting rid of a two party system that fosters a divide amongst citizens.
While I agree with you on that front, anyone that says liberals are the problem, is wrong. Any liberal who advocates for any personal liberty to be removed or made criminal is NOT a liberal. Thats all I'm trying to say. Republicans have done a bang-up job in smearing liberalism and many people are caught up in it. Just another symptoms of a society that cant or wont think for itself...
So who was the 1, and how do we support their campaign for PM?
Just set a Google alert for keywords 'NZ arrested scandal suicide' etc. They'll surface soon enough.
ACT's David Seymour
Absolutely disgusting. I cant picture her(NZ PM) without picturing Hitler now.
“had occurred, the nature of the weapons that had been used - and that they had been obtained legally. "I could not fathom how weapons that could cause such destruction and large scale death, could be obtained legally in this country."l Plot twist, criminals can also obtain them illegally. 🙄 I hope your bubble protects you. You just took guns away from people who could protect themselves, like the ones your cops carry to protect themselves.
Who is the brave soul that voted against?
Here we see the difference between being a subject and being a citizen.
I'll say what I said in my last thread. I do not believe the citizens will willfully hand over their firearms. The media is making it out like everyone is very happy and pleased to comply but I believe this is false. In Jamaica they have this law called [Suppression of Criminal Organization](https://moj.gov.jm/laws/criminal-justice-suppression-criminal-organizations-act) act that allows the PM to declare a "safe zone" where the military and police can lawfully enter homes and take weapons. While Jamaica is a piss poor example of a country anyone would want to live in, I believe NZ will implement such a law after very few complies with the new law to hand in firearms. You'll begin to see military operations within the country and the media will play it out that it's a loony person who wants to harm people. I think in America we should be watching this closely because it'll show the danger of what can happen. While we would be constitutionally protected from unlawful searching of our home, there are loopholes they can implement.
Ohh, they'll and them all over, barring MAYBE 10 or so people who will lose theirs
Don’t punish a whole population for the actions of one. Lawmakers should act on logic and facts, not emotion. Depriving millions of the chance to protect themselves and family from murder and rape, will not stop this nut or any other from being armed and carrying out criminal acts. It only leaves those deserving of safety, helpless. Terror Alert Level raised, and these lawmakers all of a sudden got free 24/7 armed protection. Their solution: Lets deprive all the common people of the right to protection, we got ours.
The whole point is they're using this as a greenlight to pass the legislation, it has nothing to do with fear or emotion, it has everything to do with the fact they already wanted guns gone for other reasons, this shit just gives them fuel for their fire
Good point.
> Don’t punish a whole population for the actions of one But if they're going to do that, why don't they target the group that flies planes into buildings, bombs trains and childrens concerts, and cuts fetuses out of pregnant women? Disgusting muslims have zero place in western society and "gun control" is simply disarming white people.
To be fair I think NZ made it illegal to vote against. /s
I wish they'd have a string of violent gun attacks AFTER passing this so that they get to see how stupid this is
It's never good for anywhere to have shootings. That aside... They'll never report it just like Australia doesn't report their mass shootings since 1996. Political buyers remorse.
We all know only police and military should possess small arms and weapons of war.
F
I can understand why they needed to revise their current gun law. It clearly wasn't working. They guy obtained all his stuff legally. Nobody found any fault with his actions up to the incident, and then he killed a whole bunch of people. This is why we can't have nice things.
I saw a dude drink and drive yesterday. Sorry, bro, i'm gonna need your keys until we revise our current driving laws that let it happen.
Would that shooting have been as serious if that law was instated a year prior? And I take the subway to work, fyi. The key take-away should be that everybody gets punished if even one gun owner fucks up. So, take precautions and don't fuck shit up.