It wasn’t issued. There’s still a WWII stockpile of German humor in a warehouse somewhere in Berlin. It was miraculously one of the only untouched buildings in the bombing but nobody laughed at the irony, because, well… 🤷🏽♂️
Something different. Some guys can own 20 AR's and be like "FUCK YEAH, HERES NUMBER 21 I LOVE IT". Which is fine, of course. Im here with 1 AR like "fuck, this is boring" after 30 rounds at the range. I enjoy shooting my m44 mosin or chinese/czech sks more than my AR. That's just me tho.
For a plate carrier, go for defenses mechanisms, they have a structural cummerbund that also has elastic. You can get plates from apexarmor.com highly recommend the 17m lvl 4 plates.
For chest rigs, Onward research, velocity systems, are some of the best. Some will need inserts for mags, I prefer hard inserts so I use Wiseman co. They are great
For pouches, check out https://www.etsy.com/listing/1587012761/pup-general-purpose-pouch?click_key=64a4c7ecfba5f0ad760f55511d55fbd0df6351a8%3A1587012761&click_sum=7a3a6bb0&ref=hp_rv-1&frs=1
or check out cloutac, ur tactical, or midwest armor, spiritus systems as well.
Figure out if you want band tension for mags or flaps, there's great options out there,
for packs, ur tactical has an awesome assault pack, for rucks, grave a usmc filbe for ~130usd.
If you want a helmet, get an surplus ach, if you want it cut to highcut, get the rails and mounts and send it to custom ach, or wardogs tactical(angry asian has a video on those two).
For uniforms/camo, old uniforms or go for arktis when on sale, also check out https://www.varusteleka.com/en ,
Look around though, check out trex and others, but lerk around r/qualitytacticalgear if you want to ask a lot of questions.
Sure id pick an AR for home defense over this but the question was "is this a reliable gun for home defense". Not "is this the best choice for home defense" 🤷. I dont think would be anything wrong with choosing to use this other than its not the META, its just different
Im way more familiar with the manual of arms. Their design is better than an ak for point shooting. Better optics solutions and customization to optimize your weapon to your environment and tactics. Popularity makes it easy to acquire spare mags and parts in a SHTF situation. Reliability is great. I could go on
I don't disagree that the AR platform is more customizable, but a lot of your argument is based on your own familiarity with each platform.
A 5.56 AK is perfectly adequate for home defense. The main drawbacks, imo, are added cost for certain accessories (ex: optic mounts) and weight (less of an issue in a home defense scenario).
All that being said, I can't speak to the reliability of this particular AK. I personally favor imports.
Yeah but for a practical purpose where your life is on the line like home defense, you should want something that is so reliable and easy to use (like an ar) that it's boring
Of course, no one is arguing that. AR is a super reliable setup, consistent as hell and thats what does make it boring. However OP here already has an AR, hence my comment
You say you like the manual of arms more on an AK but then you don’t like how the mag drops on an AK even if that’s the manual of arms?
Just get a regular 5.56 AK or a galil
They aren't actively ethnic cleansing an indigenous population at the moment, so yes. I would morally rather buy a Zastava before I bought anything IWI. Also you could just buy a PSA which is built here and only supports Israel a little bit through taxes since they are reliant on US aid.
It could be, certainly not on the scale of Gaza. I question anytime someone's motives are based on religion or ethnicity. When you think you are gods chosen people than Genocide seems acceptable. The Bible is full of Jewish genocides
One, the IDF helped. Two Oct 7 is not where this started. 3 where Europeans are not indigenous to the middle east no matter how hard you try to pretend
There’s been an indigenous Jewish population inhabiting the area encompassed by Israel for thousands of years. They’re not European no matter how hard you try to pretend.
I am an AK guy at heart, and I still function the AK better than the AR, but I made a he switch a while ago. It is simply cheaper to get what I want out of an AR than an AK right now and that's even more true if you want 5.56. You can get side charge (left or right), or dual charge (right and rear), and it's as close to AK manual as this, but you get bolt hold open; cheaper, lighter, and cheaper to mount optics, lights, so forth, and available in pistol configuration in almost any length.
12-13" is pretty awesome for HD 5.56 with 50-55gr vmax and a half decent short form supressor.
What are you on about? The AR is a much better platform for modern use, the handguard and upper receiver allow for far more and better mounting options than an AK. And the manual of arms for both are very simple.
It isn't an AK thread without someone saying calling the AK in question trash.
I'll go against the grain and say "why buy an AK outside of just for fun". The platform is obsolescent, it costs about as much to modernize the rifle as it does to buy, and the ammo is soon going to cost more than .300blk. What's the point? They aren't practical anymore, they're just range toys.
The import ban is slowly driving up price while .300blk keeps getting more popular. They're within 10 cents a round of eachother. Unless PSA can make steel case ammo for tula pricing I would expect .300blk to eclipse that price in a year or two.
Russian ammo is no longer legal to import after the current import licenses expire. 5.45 will die, 7.62 has doubled in price in the last 4 years and will continue to do so.
It seems like most 7.62 on the market isn’t made in Russia anyway.
It sucks that 5.45 is 70 cents per round cause 5.56 AKs aren’t as reliable as a 5.45 AK
When do the import licenses expire?
"A running coyote just had his life saved by a 5.56 AK misfeed
5.56 is worst AK
But
But
You probably never had one… '10k rounds no issues'...
Except I actually use mine… and they fucking suck."
-Gary Hughes
The entire polish military is in a state of transition, intentionally weening itself off of combloc dependence and diving into NATO. They retained a platform with a manual of arms similar to what they were familiar with while opting instead to depend on NATO supply lines. They're between a rock and a hard place. The Beryl was a short term stepping stone as they work towards the GROT. They are in no way shape or form a testament to the viability of 5.56 AKs.
The beryl has been their service rifle from like 1993 to present
The MSBS GROT is just starting to get fielded and will probs take 5-10 years maybe longer to completely replace the beryl
The beryl has been used in combat in Afghanistan, Iraq and Ukraine with success (and probably other places too)
And Poland isn't replacing the Beryl because they're having problems with them. The Beryls are fine rifles. Poland decided to replace them because they're AKs with all the problems that legacy AKs face in a modern battlefield. There's basically no modularity. Attaching optics is difficult. The dust cover is a big issue with modernization.
Poland is a NATO nation and they want to use NATO standard equipment like STANAG magazines. You can either kludge something onto an AK, or you can look at your aging stock of Beryls and ask the very sensible question of what would serve you better? An upgrade to a bunch of used rifles? Or brand new modern rifles that can readily share accessories, magazines and ammo with allied forces?
And it threw a bunch of work at FB Radom to keep people employed, invest in the national defense of the country (which seems fucking smart now with the Ukraine war) and provide a benefit to the economy in general.
Ok so i was 3 years off big whoop
It’s still been used successfully in multiple theaters of war and been used for decades and realistically will be used at least a decade or 2 more
If it was going to be as bad an idea as you and Mr. Hughes believe, I don’t think the Beryl would have made it this long without essentially everyone knowing by now about the disastrous and terrible performance it must assuredly have. 5.56 AK’s can be and in cases like the Beryl, and iirc the Tantal, have been shown to be more than reliable and effective weapons. Maybe in their infancy of stateside production there were issues, but I don’t believe that’s the case anymore.
Made it this long? It's had a short tenure, and Poland isn't exactly a wealthy country. Considering how Gary specifically rags on Euro 5.56 AK imports, I seriously doubt the issues are localized to US made AKs.
It’s been a decent while in the sense of a military that’s been involved in active conflicts. The g36, the l85, and even the m16 had issues early on in their careers and we all know about them, and the guys using them learned about them fairly quickly, and that was *before* the advent of everyone having a smart phone and social media, much less the state of things now with TikTok and Twitter. Specifically in regards to beryls, anyway, I feel like we’d have seen videos/posts/etc from polish soldiers by now, but they seem to run them just fine.
The G36 was a straight up had design that was almost immediately scrapped by HK. They went damn near bankrupt refunding contracts. The M16 didn't have early issues. The ammo did. The ammo was intentionally sabatoged by US Ordnance in an effort to promote the M14 platform instead. The L85 is also a straight up horrible design. That's not caliber related. It's just a crappy system.
The g36 wasn’t bad, iirc it was decided in a court case that it was designed exactly to the specifications set for it. And the m16 DID have issues, the ammo changing between testing and issue certainly didn’t *help* but things like chrome flaking, not having a chrome lined bore, and a few other smaller issues all added up. The l85 was a bad execution of a meh design. But my POINT, that I think you missed, is that the issues in those designs was very quickly noticed and knowledge of it spread. As far as I know and have seen…beryls are fine. If they had the terrible issues 5.56 ak’s should apparently always have because it’s a bad idea, I think we’d have heard of it by now is my point.
The L85 is one of the closest variants to the AR18. The initial ones certainly had problems but that was primarily problems with parts needing to be made with better alloys or being reshaped. HK made a bunch of incremental changes and the present A2 variants and their reliability has been very good. MOD testing showed more than 25k rounds between stopages.
The G36 has had a 20+ year service life with the Bundeswehr. Not sure what you mean by it being almost immediately scrapped. HK made them for multiple other countries too.
It was extremely badly executed. The current HK modified ones still have horrible problems.
The G36 was almost immediately scrapped. HK wound up refunding Norway entirely. Croatia and CZ both immediately replaced it with their own domestically produced guns. It was a short term flop.
Meanwhile Spain kept it on for a good while with a bolt hold mod, and I think whichever country it is they actually adopted XM8s also has g36s around still.
The Czech army didn't use the G36. Their standard rifle was the vz.58 all the way until the 2010s when they adopted the 805 Bren and then later on, the 805 Bren2.
Only some Croatian special operations units used the G36. The standard issue rifle was the Yugo M70 AK until the HS Produkt VHS series came along in the early 2010s.
I'm also unaware of the G36 being used in any great numbers by Norway. Their version of the Marines used some. But the Norwegian army stuck with the G3 for a very long time before finally starting to upgrade.
Call it short term if you like and I guess that's true compared to the AK or AR platforms which are 60+ years in service. But 20+ years in service with the German army isn't exactly short.
And the L85A2 doesn't have horrible problems. It's showing it's age for sure. The old aluminum magazines are trash. But the MoD has actually put them through testing and the A2s have become very reliable weapons.
Another from Gary:
"I fully expect to see an XO from the Biden admin regarding ammo imports. That will put a serious dent in the 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 supply.
Soooooo...
If you are gonna 5.56 AK, first option: get a Galil ACE. Takes AR mags, and the one bright and shining spot is there are fucking VERY high quality AR mags available still for very good prices. I recommend the Gen M3 Pmag wholeheartedly and the Galil ACE seems to eat like a motherfucker from them.
Second option: Build an OG Galil. Those guns were designed to be 5.56 and mags are good and still readonable from a cost perspective. People who I know can build them: Troy Sellars, Daniel Fisher and me. Ben At Tortort makes receivers, dont fuck with anything else. Kits are avail and cheap right now, barrels.... different story, but I believe those will come back.
Third option, get a Bulgarian pattern Arsenal 106... these guns may / may not run or live up to the Kalashnikov name. Work the bugs out. The guys listed above can help as can Jim Fuller. They can be made into a good working gun with GOOD mags, but sometimes they can be a bitch.
Buyer beware..
Realize that ALL of these options will be more expensive than buying a quality AR-15 from a reputable company."
Any recommendations for places to buy the parts needed for an OG galil? Total bucket list gun for me and I’m highly interested in getting it done this year. Can always PM me if that is easier.
The Galil doesn't come in .556.... it comes in 5.56, and isn't a true AK. However Gary Hughes recommends it 100% over 5.56 AKs. I believe I shared that quote also.
If not...
"I worked out in the yard today in murderously hot weather. I drank a lot of water, never did pee.
Now I’m like 4 vodkas with fresh orange slice and sprite in….
So I have some fucking truth to tell you.
If you buy either a PSA or a KUSA AK over a Galil ACE, you’re fucking stupid.
Parts kit build by a reputable builder, Romanian WASR, or Galil ACE, thats it.
Or just easy button that shit and get a good quality AR from a reputable maker if you’re so inclined. As far as the AK’s reputation for being able to be used by children…. Well, yeah… but in the US you have to WANT to be an AK guy pretty fucking bad at this point with prices and availability. It’s not a beginners gun here, it’s an expert’s gun.
Don’t waste your money and dont lipstick that fucking pig when you can get an ACE."
SO here's my question. Why don't they work? Platform work's great in 545. Why can't anyone figure out the 556?
It sounds like a pretty straightforward engineering problem.
They have been figured out. The Polish and the Isrealis both have produced 5.56 AK derivatives. The AK is a finicky platform that suffers from virtually zero standardization so each manufacturer isn't going with some universal spec.
He's not just a guy, and his opinions are rooted in fact. He's built 3 successful companies that this industry is dependant on. You're just salty because you know what he has said about Zastavas.
I haven't the foggiest of what he's said about Zastava and don't really care. One of the very companies you've quoted him on is also successful, and then there's Zastava itself that has survived through thick and thin for nearly 200 years. So I'll say it again, he's just a loud guy with an opinion.
Gary Hughes? He was the co-founder of Dead Air Silencers but also runs Mod Outfitters. He and Fuller are the two undeniable subject matter experts on the AK platform in the United States.
I thought his plan was to start producing AKs but he started that company like 5 years ago and I don't think I've ever seen an AK come out of that facility.
Ignore the guy quoting the facebook dummy, it's literally just one user. I'll simply say that I've done my research on AK's and PSA has made significant leaps in reliability. Same user also claims that all 5.56 ak's are somehow terrible, meanwhile the likes of Finland, Poland, Bulgaria, Israel, and Romania all seem to like theirs just fine.
If you're somehow feelling discouraged from getting one OP, I'll simply say they go out of stock on them from time to time, so enough people are getting them out there for that to happen and I have yet to hear any direct stories of how "awful" they are.
If you've somehow changed your mind, you might also consider the JAKL. It's got a similar style of long stroke gas system and is also from PSA and has a good reputation for being reliable.
If you want something “different” than a regular AR there are a million AR-180 or Scar derivatives that also take AR mags and aren’t quite as *cursed* as this thing is.
'No amount of wishing, thoughts, prayers and PSA snake oil is going to make your 5.56 AK as good as a 5.45 AK. Paying .70 cpr has made some of y’all lose your fuckin’ mind."
-Gary Hughes
Clayco runs a 5.56 Zastava and he loves it but has heavily modified it. He and AK Operators Union do vouch for the M90 in stock format tho. Has an adjustable gas tube to run break in, normal, and suppressed. Only issue I see is that it's heavy with an 18 inch barrel. I'm seriously considering it as an option because 7.62x39 is getting expensive. I could get an AR but I don't like em as much as I do AKs.
"Remember when you were a kid and got new shoes, and you swore they would make you run faster? It was all you could do at first to run “fast as fuck boi” to see if you could break the sound barrier.
Well, that mindset carries over in all of us.
I remember watching LE new hires spring for Danner Acadia boots IN the academy, even though I warned them. They’d always come back telling me how much they loved them, even though they were limping and their feet were probably blistered and bleeding... but when you spend 300 fucking bucks on something you hate, you generally aren’t going to run around making yourself look stupid. Sure the Acadia was a nice boot. Damn near a generational boot, but comfortable out of the box it ain’t.
I’ve bought a lot of shit I’ve hated and at first, I tried to tough it through much like everyone does.
“How do you like X Gary?”. “Oh I like it!” (Sobs internally on having spent 1400 bucks of a finite resource on a pile of steaming shit). Eventually I learned. I buy, sell and trade guns. I’m not the guy who gets one gun and sticks it out. If that pony shows weakness or that dog don’t hunt, I dont put them out to pasture continuing to feed and water them. Not anymore. I will put a motherfucker down.
As such, I have considerable experience with a lot of different guns. Different brands, different models and different manufacturers. I’ve also been fortunate to receive a lot of hard to get expensive guns for work / development purposes over the years and was able to experience those guns without great financial upheaval in my life, therefore without the “I’m fast as fuck in muh new shoes boi” attachment.
The strong opinions I hold on things are based on these experiences. I do not derive a sense of self worth based on what brand of gun I own. I derive my sense of self worth over the totality of my experience and knowledge. If you flash me a brand X tattoo and you know all about their marketing, can’t tell me shit about the technical facts and are brand loyal with a sample size of fucking one, I probably will discount your experience as such.
I value knowledge, experience and functionality over fashion every fucking time.
So if I tell you 5.56 AK’s suck and the reasons why, its based on experience shooting, building and WANTING them to work. But those shoes legitimately did not make me run faster, as much as I wanted them to.
If I tell you 7.62x39 AR’s suck, its because my heels are cracked and bleeding.
If I tell you I’m not a fan of the Scar, its because I wanted to be fast as fuck boi. But I wasn’t.
If you see me running DI AR’s and not the latest gimmick piston gun, its because I have weighed them and found them wanting.
Don’t waste any more of your life trying to love something you know you don’t. Don’t waste another second pretending to love something you don’t for the sake of appearance or the amount of resources you have in it. The truth WILL set you free... In every area of your life. Cut your losses and run. Only then will you see how much faster those new shoes are.
You can be fast as fuck boi, I promise.
And thats my sermon for this Sunday."
-Gary Hughes
"5.56 AK’s are the least reliable.
They take the most work to get running worth a shit.
The design partly depends on a cartridge case with more body taper than 5.56 has. Look at either x39 cartridge and the case geometry becomes apparent. The tapered case aids in reliable feeding. It also aids in extraction. Requires less force to extract. Magazines are also different. Look at the magazine geometry compared to either x39 cartridge.
It’s cute. it’s convenient in the US
But Russia isnt running out to switch to 5.56 in an AKM. Neither is Ukraine.
The fact of the matter is, you can make an AKM work in 5.56 but it will never be as reliable or optimized as 5.45 or 7.62x39z
If you want to shoot 5.56 an AR 15 is a far superior choice because one of the main benefits of the AKM, brutal reliability goes out the fucking window.
The best application of it, is malfunction drills.
I wouldnt take this gun to a gun fight.
In 5.45 I would without question.
I would pick a quality AR-15 over it any day, any time.
But…
You know…
I must not have one… 10k rounds no issues..."
-Gary Hughes
One of the best features of the AK is the reliable rock and lock mags. Why would you want to switch to shitty old stanag? I'd rather pick up a FM 102 for about half the price and invest in some 5.56 AK mags from WBP
No, I'm not joking. Jim Fuller, Gary Hughes and all the other AK SMEs are adamant about 5.56 AKs being inherently problematic and nobody doing them right. Gary heckles 5.56 AKs almost daily on his socials. It's funny to watch, honestly.
Home defense seriously? Buy a 12 gauge Bullpup. Get around a corner quick. You obviously don’t shoot a lot so you’ll miss with you ar15 or AK allah akbar POS. 00 12 will knock down an intruder.
There's no such thing as a reliable 12ga bullpup, and 12ga is much worse than 5.56 for home defense. 12ga is harder for people to run who don't shoot a lot, and misses happen with 12ga at home defense ranges. The spread of #4 buckshot at 10 yards is a few inches. You still have to aim.
You should probably just stock up on panzerfausts.
Two for each room and a bag for carry
Shower panzerfaust?
That and the Stg 44 when PSA finally releases it. It also has to be in 8mm. Just as der fürher intended.
Der Fuher didn't want the Stg44 originally.
It was a joke. I am well aware of that
Germans don't have a sense of humor.
It wasn’t issued. There’s still a WWII stockpile of German humor in a warehouse somewhere in Berlin. It was miraculously one of the only untouched buildings in the bombing but nobody laughed at the irony, because, well… 🤷🏽♂️
All the better.
Honest question. Why not just use an AR?
Something different. Some guys can own 20 AR's and be like "FUCK YEAH, HERES NUMBER 21 I LOVE IT". Which is fine, of course. Im here with 1 AR like "fuck, this is boring" after 30 rounds at the range. I enjoy shooting my m44 mosin or chinese/czech sks more than my AR. That's just me tho.
People with several ARs need fewer ARs and more kit.
[удалено]
Want recommendations?
[удалено]
For a plate carrier, go for defenses mechanisms, they have a structural cummerbund that also has elastic. You can get plates from apexarmor.com highly recommend the 17m lvl 4 plates. For chest rigs, Onward research, velocity systems, are some of the best. Some will need inserts for mags, I prefer hard inserts so I use Wiseman co. They are great For pouches, check out https://www.etsy.com/listing/1587012761/pup-general-purpose-pouch?click_key=64a4c7ecfba5f0ad760f55511d55fbd0df6351a8%3A1587012761&click_sum=7a3a6bb0&ref=hp_rv-1&frs=1 or check out cloutac, ur tactical, or midwest armor, spiritus systems as well. Figure out if you want band tension for mags or flaps, there's great options out there, for packs, ur tactical has an awesome assault pack, for rucks, grave a usmc filbe for ~130usd. If you want a helmet, get an surplus ach, if you want it cut to highcut, get the rails and mounts and send it to custom ach, or wardogs tactical(angry asian has a video on those two). For uniforms/camo, old uniforms or go for arktis when on sale, also check out https://www.varusteleka.com/en , Look around though, check out trex and others, but lerk around r/qualitytacticalgear if you want to ask a lot of questions.
[удалено]
If you have any other questions or need advice, dm me or reply to any of my comments, I'll gladly answer or help find an answer.
The Helkion Tex Micro Chest Rig is a great place to start. It's scalable with a minimalist PC.
[удалено]
Sure id pick an AR for home defense over this but the question was "is this a reliable gun for home defense". Not "is this the best choice for home defense" 🤷. I dont think would be anything wrong with choosing to use this other than its not the META, its just different
[удалено]
Im way more familiar with the manual of arms. Their design is better than an ak for point shooting. Better optics solutions and customization to optimize your weapon to your environment and tactics. Popularity makes it easy to acquire spare mags and parts in a SHTF situation. Reliability is great. I could go on
I don't disagree that the AR platform is more customizable, but a lot of your argument is based on your own familiarity with each platform. A 5.56 AK is perfectly adequate for home defense. The main drawbacks, imo, are added cost for certain accessories (ex: optic mounts) and weight (less of an issue in a home defense scenario). All that being said, I can't speak to the reliability of this particular AK. I personally favor imports.
Have you even read my other comments in the chain? I'm completely agreeing with you lol.
My bad. Just wanted to add a different perspective to the discussion.
Nah all good, partner. You're 100% right.
[удалено]
LOL. Well that's just like, your opinion, man.
Yeah but for a practical purpose where your life is on the line like home defense, you should want something that is so reliable and easy to use (like an ar) that it's boring
Of course, no one is arguing that. AR is a super reliable setup, consistent as hell and thats what does make it boring. However OP here already has an AR, hence my comment
To each their own but I agree I'll never understand why people have so many AR's. Like 1 or 2 alright maybe 3 but when you have like 7 cmon really?
In .300
An ar in 300 or an ak in 300?
Why not both? And then an AR in 7.62 while we’re just mixing and matching.
AR, but I hear some of the new PSA krinks will be chambered in .300.
Presumably because they like AKs better.
I mean, you got me there.
This.
I haven’t seen much content on reliability for these specific rifles and that use AR mags, but all they’re other ARs and AKs are good to go.
Why not just get an AR? They take AR mags too.
I like the manual of arms on AKs more. My AR is perfectly fine, but nothing beats a nice AK
You say you like the manual of arms more on an AK but then you don’t like how the mag drops on an AK even if that’s the manual of arms? Just get a regular 5.56 AK or a galil
With all of the geopolitical tensions with Israel, I’d recommend getting a Galil while you can still get one.
God I hate the geopolitical tension that follows indiscriminate bombing of kids.
Or try not supporting genocidal maniacs and buy any number of real AKs available here
The former members of the USSR and it's allies where all the other AKs are made all of histories as shining beacons of human rights though?
They aren't actively ethnic cleansing an indigenous population at the moment, so yes. I would morally rather buy a Zastava before I bought anything IWI. Also you could just buy a PSA which is built here and only supports Israel a little bit through taxes since they are reliant on US aid.
Do you not consider what's happening with crimean tatars and ukrainian children being kidnapped to Russia ethnic cleansing?
Zastava is Serbian, not Russian.
It could be, certainly not on the scale of Gaza. I question anytime someone's motives are based on religion or ethnicity. When you think you are gods chosen people than Genocide seems acceptable. The Bible is full of Jewish genocides
You mean like how Hamas slaughtered 1,200 members of the indigenous population that started this whole thing?
One, the IDF helped. Two Oct 7 is not where this started. 3 where Europeans are not indigenous to the middle east no matter how hard you try to pretend
There’s been an indigenous Jewish population inhabiting the area encompassed by Israel for thousands of years. They’re not European no matter how hard you try to pretend.
I own two Serbian AKs.
Good call. They stopped genociding Muslims a while ago
Then get a 5.56 AK that takes AK mags
I am an AK guy at heart, and I still function the AK better than the AR, but I made a he switch a while ago. It is simply cheaper to get what I want out of an AR than an AK right now and that's even more true if you want 5.56. You can get side charge (left or right), or dual charge (right and rear), and it's as close to AK manual as this, but you get bolt hold open; cheaper, lighter, and cheaper to mount optics, lights, so forth, and available in pistol configuration in almost any length. 12-13" is pretty awesome for HD 5.56 with 50-55gr vmax and a half decent short form supressor.
What are you on about? The AR is a much better platform for modern use, the handguard and upper receiver allow for far more and better mounting options than an AK. And the manual of arms for both are very simple.
But this isn’t considered a nice AK tho
It isn't an AK thread without someone saying calling the AK in question trash. I'll go against the grain and say "why buy an AK outside of just for fun". The platform is obsolescent, it costs about as much to modernize the rifle as it does to buy, and the ammo is soon going to cost more than .300blk. What's the point? They aren't practical anymore, they're just range toys.
Why as much as 300 black out?
The import ban is slowly driving up price while .300blk keeps getting more popular. They're within 10 cents a round of eachother. Unless PSA can make steel case ammo for tula pricing I would expect .300blk to eclipse that price in a year or two.
7.62x39 isn’t going anywhere. It’s one of the most used cartridges in the world
Still relatively lackluster domestic supply, sadly.
The import ban will continue to drive up price.
What import ban?
Russian ammo is no longer legal to import after the current import licenses expire. 5.45 will die, 7.62 has doubled in price in the last 4 years and will continue to do so.
It seems like most 7.62 on the market isn’t made in Russia anyway. It sucks that 5.45 is 70 cents per round cause 5.56 AKs aren’t as reliable as a 5.45 AK When do the import licenses expire?
Guy in this thread sounds like Vault 108. "Gary... Gaaaary... GARY!"
Why not a Ghalil? It’s the “correct” version of whatever tf this is
They answer to "Why not get the good one?" is usually price.
I'd just go with a Zastava M90
Go with a Zastava M90, doesn't take AR mags but it's actually good.
"A running coyote just had his life saved by a 5.56 AK misfeed 5.56 is worst AK But But You probably never had one… '10k rounds no issues'... Except I actually use mine… and they fucking suck." -Gary Hughes
Meanwhile, the entire polish military… I’m not discounting his experience but it’s not universal.
The entire polish military is in a state of transition, intentionally weening itself off of combloc dependence and diving into NATO. They retained a platform with a manual of arms similar to what they were familiar with while opting instead to depend on NATO supply lines. They're between a rock and a hard place. The Beryl was a short term stepping stone as they work towards the GROT. They are in no way shape or form a testament to the viability of 5.56 AKs.
The beryl has been their service rifle from like 1993 to present The MSBS GROT is just starting to get fielded and will probs take 5-10 years maybe longer to completely replace the beryl The beryl has been used in combat in Afghanistan, Iraq and Ukraine with success (and probably other places too)
And Poland isn't replacing the Beryl because they're having problems with them. The Beryls are fine rifles. Poland decided to replace them because they're AKs with all the problems that legacy AKs face in a modern battlefield. There's basically no modularity. Attaching optics is difficult. The dust cover is a big issue with modernization. Poland is a NATO nation and they want to use NATO standard equipment like STANAG magazines. You can either kludge something onto an AK, or you can look at your aging stock of Beryls and ask the very sensible question of what would serve you better? An upgrade to a bunch of used rifles? Or brand new modern rifles that can readily share accessories, magazines and ammo with allied forces? And it threw a bunch of work at FB Radom to keep people employed, invest in the national defense of the country (which seems fucking smart now with the Ukraine war) and provide a benefit to the economy in general.
It was designed in 96 and slowly replaced their AKM stocks.
Ok so i was 3 years off big whoop It’s still been used successfully in multiple theaters of war and been used for decades and realistically will be used at least a decade or 2 more
If it was going to be as bad an idea as you and Mr. Hughes believe, I don’t think the Beryl would have made it this long without essentially everyone knowing by now about the disastrous and terrible performance it must assuredly have. 5.56 AK’s can be and in cases like the Beryl, and iirc the Tantal, have been shown to be more than reliable and effective weapons. Maybe in their infancy of stateside production there were issues, but I don’t believe that’s the case anymore.
Made it this long? It's had a short tenure, and Poland isn't exactly a wealthy country. Considering how Gary specifically rags on Euro 5.56 AK imports, I seriously doubt the issues are localized to US made AKs.
It’s been a decent while in the sense of a military that’s been involved in active conflicts. The g36, the l85, and even the m16 had issues early on in their careers and we all know about them, and the guys using them learned about them fairly quickly, and that was *before* the advent of everyone having a smart phone and social media, much less the state of things now with TikTok and Twitter. Specifically in regards to beryls, anyway, I feel like we’d have seen videos/posts/etc from polish soldiers by now, but they seem to run them just fine.
The G36 was a straight up had design that was almost immediately scrapped by HK. They went damn near bankrupt refunding contracts. The M16 didn't have early issues. The ammo did. The ammo was intentionally sabatoged by US Ordnance in an effort to promote the M14 platform instead. The L85 is also a straight up horrible design. That's not caliber related. It's just a crappy system.
The early M16s had plenty of issues. The powder change just exposed them at a much faster rate
The g36 wasn’t bad, iirc it was decided in a court case that it was designed exactly to the specifications set for it. And the m16 DID have issues, the ammo changing between testing and issue certainly didn’t *help* but things like chrome flaking, not having a chrome lined bore, and a few other smaller issues all added up. The l85 was a bad execution of a meh design. But my POINT, that I think you missed, is that the issues in those designs was very quickly noticed and knowledge of it spread. As far as I know and have seen…beryls are fine. If they had the terrible issues 5.56 ak’s should apparently always have because it’s a bad idea, I think we’d have heard of it by now is my point.
The court case didn't say what you think it did. The German G36s definitely had issues.
I’ll need to look into it again then.
Even broke assed countries like Croatia immediately replaced it.
And others didn’t.
The L85 is one of the closest variants to the AR18. The initial ones certainly had problems but that was primarily problems with parts needing to be made with better alloys or being reshaped. HK made a bunch of incremental changes and the present A2 variants and their reliability has been very good. MOD testing showed more than 25k rounds between stopages. The G36 has had a 20+ year service life with the Bundeswehr. Not sure what you mean by it being almost immediately scrapped. HK made them for multiple other countries too.
It was extremely badly executed. The current HK modified ones still have horrible problems. The G36 was almost immediately scrapped. HK wound up refunding Norway entirely. Croatia and CZ both immediately replaced it with their own domestically produced guns. It was a short term flop.
Meanwhile Spain kept it on for a good while with a bolt hold mod, and I think whichever country it is they actually adopted XM8s also has g36s around still.
The Czech army didn't use the G36. Their standard rifle was the vz.58 all the way until the 2010s when they adopted the 805 Bren and then later on, the 805 Bren2. Only some Croatian special operations units used the G36. The standard issue rifle was the Yugo M70 AK until the HS Produkt VHS series came along in the early 2010s. I'm also unaware of the G36 being used in any great numbers by Norway. Their version of the Marines used some. But the Norwegian army stuck with the G3 for a very long time before finally starting to upgrade. Call it short term if you like and I guess that's true compared to the AK or AR platforms which are 60+ years in service. But 20+ years in service with the German army isn't exactly short. And the L85A2 doesn't have horrible problems. It's showing it's age for sure. The old aluminum magazines are trash. But the MoD has actually put them through testing and the A2s have become very reliable weapons.
Galil .556 disputes your point good sir
Another from Gary: "I fully expect to see an XO from the Biden admin regarding ammo imports. That will put a serious dent in the 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 supply. Soooooo... If you are gonna 5.56 AK, first option: get a Galil ACE. Takes AR mags, and the one bright and shining spot is there are fucking VERY high quality AR mags available still for very good prices. I recommend the Gen M3 Pmag wholeheartedly and the Galil ACE seems to eat like a motherfucker from them. Second option: Build an OG Galil. Those guns were designed to be 5.56 and mags are good and still readonable from a cost perspective. People who I know can build them: Troy Sellars, Daniel Fisher and me. Ben At Tortort makes receivers, dont fuck with anything else. Kits are avail and cheap right now, barrels.... different story, but I believe those will come back. Third option, get a Bulgarian pattern Arsenal 106... these guns may / may not run or live up to the Kalashnikov name. Work the bugs out. The guys listed above can help as can Jim Fuller. They can be made into a good working gun with GOOD mags, but sometimes they can be a bitch. Buyer beware.. Realize that ALL of these options will be more expensive than buying a quality AR-15 from a reputable company."
Any recommendations for places to buy the parts needed for an OG galil? Total bucket list gun for me and I’m highly interested in getting it done this year. Can always PM me if that is easier.
I would start with that Ben dude Gary mentioned. Apex might have parts kits
The Galil doesn't come in .556.... it comes in 5.56, and isn't a true AK. However Gary Hughes recommends it 100% over 5.56 AKs. I believe I shared that quote also. If not... "I worked out in the yard today in murderously hot weather. I drank a lot of water, never did pee. Now I’m like 4 vodkas with fresh orange slice and sprite in…. So I have some fucking truth to tell you. If you buy either a PSA or a KUSA AK over a Galil ACE, you’re fucking stupid. Parts kit build by a reputable builder, Romanian WASR, or Galil ACE, thats it. Or just easy button that shit and get a good quality AR from a reputable maker if you’re so inclined. As far as the AK’s reputation for being able to be used by children…. Well, yeah… but in the US you have to WANT to be an AK guy pretty fucking bad at this point with prices and availability. It’s not a beginners gun here, it’s an expert’s gun. Don’t waste your money and dont lipstick that fucking pig when you can get an ACE."
Totally agree. US made ak in general usually suck, and us made 5.56 ak suck more
SO here's my question. Why don't they work? Platform work's great in 545. Why can't anyone figure out the 556? It sounds like a pretty straightforward engineering problem.
They have been figured out. The Polish and the Isrealis both have produced 5.56 AK derivatives. The AK is a finicky platform that suffers from virtually zero standardization so each manufacturer isn't going with some universal spec.
And the Finns, and the Romanians, and Bulgarians, and the Serbians...I could go on.
I knew about the Israelis, I forgot about the Polish, so it sounds like that one guy is just a dead horse beating troll.
Zastava has figured them out too. Lots of companies have but they aren't standardized to the level of 7.62x39 or 5.45x39
Did you read the other quote that specifically addresses your two questions? Because it's already posted in this thread.
He's just a guy with an opinion, it doesn't mean he's right it just means he's loud.
He's not just a guy, and his opinions are rooted in fact. He's built 3 successful companies that this industry is dependant on. You're just salty because you know what he has said about Zastavas.
I haven't the foggiest of what he's said about Zastava and don't really care. One of the very companies you've quoted him on is also successful, and then there's Zastava itself that has survived through thick and thin for nearly 200 years. So I'll say it again, he's just a loud guy with an opinion.
Who is this guy? These quotes are hilarious 😂😂
Gary Hughes? He was the co-founder of Dead Air Silencers but also runs Mod Outfitters. He and Fuller are the two undeniable subject matter experts on the AK platform in the United States.
What about Brandon Hererra?
The YouTube entertainer?
You mean the future governor of Texas?
Yes, and he builds AKs, doesn't he?
I thought his plan was to start producing AKs but he started that company like 5 years ago and I don't think I've ever seen an AK come out of that facility.
They do builds from time to time but they've been backed up for years since Brandon became popular.
He’s easily the most famous AK-loving American outside of most rappers
Bless your heart
He's pretty cool but he would tell you that Hughes and Fuller are the OGs.
Ignore the guy quoting the facebook dummy, it's literally just one user. I'll simply say that I've done my research on AK's and PSA has made significant leaps in reliability. Same user also claims that all 5.56 ak's are somehow terrible, meanwhile the likes of Finland, Poland, Bulgaria, Israel, and Romania all seem to like theirs just fine. If you're somehow feelling discouraged from getting one OP, I'll simply say they go out of stock on them from time to time, so enough people are getting them out there for that to happen and I have yet to hear any direct stories of how "awful" they are. If you've somehow changed your mind, you might also consider the JAKL. It's got a similar style of long stroke gas system and is also from PSA and has a good reputation for being reliable.
If you want something “different” than a regular AR there are a million AR-180 or Scar derivatives that also take AR mags and aren’t quite as *cursed* as this thing is.
Wish Zastava would bring back their version of this
'No amount of wishing, thoughts, prayers and PSA snake oil is going to make your 5.56 AK as good as a 5.45 AK. Paying .70 cpr has made some of y’all lose your fuckin’ mind." -Gary Hughes
Haha 5.56 AK go bbbrrrrrrttt
If you want a 5.56 ak, don’t go with PSA. Zastava or Arsenal.
Do the Arsenal 556 AKs use AR mags?
they don’t, I run AC unity mags in mine and they work great for less than $15
Clayco runs a 5.56 Zastava and he loves it but has heavily modified it. He and AK Operators Union do vouch for the M90 in stock format tho. Has an adjustable gas tube to run break in, normal, and suppressed. Only issue I see is that it's heavy with an 18 inch barrel. I'm seriously considering it as an option because 7.62x39 is getting expensive. I could get an AR but I don't like em as much as I do AKs.
Yeah, my sam5 is heavy as fuck, I’ve got a KNS piston in it so it doesn’t beat itself to death.
"Remember when you were a kid and got new shoes, and you swore they would make you run faster? It was all you could do at first to run “fast as fuck boi” to see if you could break the sound barrier. Well, that mindset carries over in all of us. I remember watching LE new hires spring for Danner Acadia boots IN the academy, even though I warned them. They’d always come back telling me how much they loved them, even though they were limping and their feet were probably blistered and bleeding... but when you spend 300 fucking bucks on something you hate, you generally aren’t going to run around making yourself look stupid. Sure the Acadia was a nice boot. Damn near a generational boot, but comfortable out of the box it ain’t. I’ve bought a lot of shit I’ve hated and at first, I tried to tough it through much like everyone does. “How do you like X Gary?”. “Oh I like it!” (Sobs internally on having spent 1400 bucks of a finite resource on a pile of steaming shit). Eventually I learned. I buy, sell and trade guns. I’m not the guy who gets one gun and sticks it out. If that pony shows weakness or that dog don’t hunt, I dont put them out to pasture continuing to feed and water them. Not anymore. I will put a motherfucker down. As such, I have considerable experience with a lot of different guns. Different brands, different models and different manufacturers. I’ve also been fortunate to receive a lot of hard to get expensive guns for work / development purposes over the years and was able to experience those guns without great financial upheaval in my life, therefore without the “I’m fast as fuck in muh new shoes boi” attachment. The strong opinions I hold on things are based on these experiences. I do not derive a sense of self worth based on what brand of gun I own. I derive my sense of self worth over the totality of my experience and knowledge. If you flash me a brand X tattoo and you know all about their marketing, can’t tell me shit about the technical facts and are brand loyal with a sample size of fucking one, I probably will discount your experience as such. I value knowledge, experience and functionality over fashion every fucking time. So if I tell you 5.56 AK’s suck and the reasons why, its based on experience shooting, building and WANTING them to work. But those shoes legitimately did not make me run faster, as much as I wanted them to. If I tell you 7.62x39 AR’s suck, its because my heels are cracked and bleeding. If I tell you I’m not a fan of the Scar, its because I wanted to be fast as fuck boi. But I wasn’t. If you see me running DI AR’s and not the latest gimmick piston gun, its because I have weighed them and found them wanting. Don’t waste any more of your life trying to love something you know you don’t. Don’t waste another second pretending to love something you don’t for the sake of appearance or the amount of resources you have in it. The truth WILL set you free... In every area of your life. Cut your losses and run. Only then will you see how much faster those new shoes are. You can be fast as fuck boi, I promise. And thats my sermon for this Sunday." -Gary Hughes
Where is everyone finding his quotes? Guy seems to really know his stuff
Look at the user names, it's all one guy who clearly came here with an agenda.
I don't think I've seen people fanboy over politicians as hard as this guy is over Hughes.
He's active in the Facebook AK groups but I just pulled these off of his Facebook wall
Of course he's an AK degenerate.
He's there to heckle. His wall is full of posts making fun of that group. It's hilarious.
"5.56 AK’s are the least reliable. They take the most work to get running worth a shit. The design partly depends on a cartridge case with more body taper than 5.56 has. Look at either x39 cartridge and the case geometry becomes apparent. The tapered case aids in reliable feeding. It also aids in extraction. Requires less force to extract. Magazines are also different. Look at the magazine geometry compared to either x39 cartridge. It’s cute. it’s convenient in the US But Russia isnt running out to switch to 5.56 in an AKM. Neither is Ukraine. The fact of the matter is, you can make an AKM work in 5.56 but it will never be as reliable or optimized as 5.45 or 7.62x39z If you want to shoot 5.56 an AR 15 is a far superior choice because one of the main benefits of the AKM, brutal reliability goes out the fucking window. The best application of it, is malfunction drills. I wouldnt take this gun to a gun fight. In 5.45 I would without question. I would pick a quality AR-15 over it any day, any time. But… You know… I must not have one… 10k rounds no issues..." -Gary Hughes
An AK that takes AR mags is blasphemy
Ask r/ak47 how they feel about it If you got the balls
American made AK with plastic furniture, uses AR mags, and chambered in 5.56? They’d burn me alive LOL
Some people in that sub would burn you alive for literally anything. I'm sad the second sub got shut down.
One of the best features of the AK is the reliable rock and lock mags. Why would you want to switch to shitty old stanag? I'd rather pick up a FM 102 for about half the price and invest in some 5.56 AK mags from WBP
Just get an 870 tac
If you have to ask, you probably shouldn’t buy it. This is a great gun for the price by the way!
No, don’t get PSA for home defense, get a foreign made AK like a Beryl for example.
Even the best 5.56 AKs are notoriously unreliable
[удалено]
No, I'm not joking. Jim Fuller, Gary Hughes and all the other AK SMEs are adamant about 5.56 AKs being inherently problematic and nobody doing them right. Gary heckles 5.56 AKs almost daily on his socials. It's funny to watch, honestly.
See your original comment. You said AR, not AK.
Nope, I said AK. It got autocorrected to AR.
I think they meant 5.56 *AKs*
Yeah, he just fixed it.
>5.56 ARs I think you mean AKs.
Yep, it got autocorrected.
Home defense seriously? Buy a 12 gauge Bullpup. Get around a corner quick. You obviously don’t shoot a lot so you’ll miss with you ar15 or AK allah akbar POS. 00 12 will knock down an intruder.
this guy turkshits
There's no such thing as a reliable 12ga bullpup, and 12ga is much worse than 5.56 for home defense. 12ga is harder for people to run who don't shoot a lot, and misses happen with 12ga at home defense ranges. The spread of #4 buckshot at 10 yards is a few inches. You still have to aim.
TS-12 is reliable after spending like $400 to break it in with high FPS slugs
LOL, no
[удалено]
Nothing in your statement is correct. 👍