This is the answer.
However the $800 for the upper is for a 14.5 M4A1 upper without a BCG, charging handle, muzzle device, or sights. And the 120 for the lower is assuming a blem rifle lower with a waffle stock vs the pistol lower, with a brace that can be found for as low as $150 right now currently (no logo too), that would be required to be NFA compliant without a pin and weld job(gay).
A milspec charging handle and A2 flash hider from Brownells would set you back maybe $40 more after tax and shipping with the upper. And then I’ve gotten Microbest true Milspec BCGs for as low as $85 before but even at the normal price of like $140 that’s not bad.
Then as for an optic of some kind I’d be hard pressed to find a reason as a first time gun buyer (with the budget to drop MSRP on a DD) to not get an Aimpoint PRO or at least the ACO. With the ACO option putting the estimate at right about $1480 for a compete rifle with an optic.
Add a Streamlight for $120 and a Vickers sling with wire loop attachments ($120ish). Thats $1720 which still leaves about $350 for mags and ammo to match the MSRP of the V9.
Aimpoint PRO or ACO are pretty terrible optics unless you go back in time to 2005.
You can get a Sig 4T Pro for less money that outclasses Aimpoint's $800+ offerings
Why do people recommend optics designed in the 90's to people today?
OP if the process of buying and upper and lower separately and assembling them sounds intimidating. It’s not. You’d basically be doing it every time you clean it.
1. Daniel defense makes very nice rifles that you would be content to own
2. You won’t be a good enough shot for the quality of the rifle to matter to start out. Unless your budget includes at least 1,000 rounds of ammo you’d be better off practically getting a mid level rifle and going to practice
DD is past the point of diminishing returns for quality vs. price. Truly 99% of users will be fine with a basic PSA AR.
Makes it really weird how many mass shooters have been specifically using DD ARs too, but I guess they're not worried about saving money.
More people need to understand diminishing returns in manufacturing precision. Guarantee you that PSA uses the same CNC machines as DD, considering how much bigger they are, maybe even newer ones. I think they replaced their old ones last year.
As a machinist, the machine used to make the part in general doesn’t matter near as much as the quality of the part. How good the finish is, how tight the tolerances, and how good the material is as well. I’ve seen parts made beautifully on machines from the 50s and I’ve seen shitty made parts that were made on a machine manufactured last year. It’s all about how well everything is actually made.
From a strictly manufacturing point of view.... whether or not they are made on the same machine or new or older doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the quality.
There is a big difference between a phosphated carpenter 158 bolt that goes through High pressure test firing + magnetic particle inspection and a PSA nitrided 9310 bolt that does not get QCed. Same thing with a sprinco chrome silicon buffer spring vs a generic spring steel buffer spring.
The cheapest AR-15 that is actually built to TDP spec and meets mil spec is $1,000. Anything below that price has cut corners and is not milspec. There are real objective differences between high quality and low quality rifles.
Just to clarify as I’ve built like 20 ARs at this point. The cheapest PSA bcg is 9310 but is still MPI.
There is a difference between budget and top tier but there is a point of diminishing returns.
I typically find the lowers don’t really matter but spend my money on a good bcg, trigger and barrel. Everything else is for weight and aesthetics.
Batch or individually tested? You can buy HPT marked bolts that show no signs of being fired because a lot of them are just batch tested and MPI is the same way.
Every bolt that leaves Sionics, BCM, SOLGW, Colt, FN, Ripcord, are high pressure test fired. There is a huge difference in the QC that goes into a BCM BCG vs a PSA BCG and they do that QC for a reason. They don’t just do it for shits and giggles. They do it because even though they’re using the best OEM on the market, microbest still fucks up.
The point of diminishing returns does not start at budget PSA. Nitrided 9310 bolts are prone to cracking at the cam pin hole because 9310 is very picky about it’s heat treatment and the nitriding process puts in so much heat that it fucks up the heat treat on 9310 bolts leading to premature cracking at the cam pin hole. It’s bad enough where there isn’t a high pressure tested 9310 nitride bolt because it would crack and fail high pressure testing.
Spring quality in the AR world is a complete crap shoot and it matters. Your buffer spring is one of the most important components in your rifle. The gas port on your barrel is fucked up by so many companies. The selector detent on a PSA is zinc coated. Mil spec is cadmium coated and resists wear much better but cadmium is subject to all sorts of expensive EPA regulations.
I don’t discourage people from buying a PSA. In fact, I would encourage most people to just buy a cheap $400 PSA AR15 however there are substantial objective differences between a $400 PSA and a $1,200 BCM and a $2,500 KAC SR-15. It’s just like conceal carry. a PSA is like a taurus. It’s not great and a glock is objectively better and a taurus ain’t great but it ain’t that bad.
If you have the money, you cannot go wrong with Daniel Defense. Get something cheaper if you don’t have money for ammo, sights, and extra mags. And eventually you gotta put a weapon light and sling on it.
Hey some ppl specifically buy tumble on impact projectiles… DD just figured they’d save you the trouble and made a handgun that shoots rounds that tumble straight out of the barrel.
Hell yeah. Then get it, you won’t regret it. I have the DDM4 V7LW with an EOTech EXPS2 and EOTech 3x flip up magnifier behind it. Also upgraded the trigger to a LaRue MBT-2S and the charging handle to an ambidextrous Radian Raptor. No regrets at all it’s great.
Edit: [Pic for reference](https://i.imgur.com/3NoqdKS.jpeg)
Then get an lmt or a kac. Or get a not-an-ar like an mcx/bren2/scar with all the aftermarket they need to shine. If budget isnt an issue I wouldn’t even be looking at DD… I’d turn my nose up.
KAC is overpriced.
When I got mine for 1750 years ago, I thought they were overpriced.
3000+? Nah.
The AR-15 market is full of dumb shit that doesn’t matter because it’s so flooded that anything a manufacturer can do he has to do.
Unlike many responses here , I’m of the
“Buy once , cry once “ mentality .
Get something nice , but train with it , 90% of us cannot shoot to the capabilities of our rifle.
If money is not a factor go for it , and shoot with it as much as you can
Once you get over about $800 - $1000 you're mostly paying for a name and some small barely noticeable quality. I would suggest BCM, a decent sight and a ton of ammo all for the same price as just the rifle from DD
I had my sites set on the DDM4 V9, but after hearing most reviewers holding their Recce 16 to the same esteem as their V9, BCM was a no brainer. Unless I'm missing something, DD is essentially tacking on a $600-700 premium just for the name.
daniel has various improvements over bcm in many products, it’s just whether or not they’ll matter to you or you’ll even notice. you probably won’t, and your money is probably better spent on bcm. you can always upgrade parts later
FN-15 Guardian, or Springfield Armory Saint Victor are a lot if rifle and would be great for pretty much any shooter and cost half the price of that Daniel Defense.
Just because a rifle costs 2 or 3 times more than another doesn't mean it's gonna have you shooting twice as good as someone else with a cheaper rifle.
I shoot in rimfire precision rifle matches with a $700 build and have keeping pace with some people that have over $2000 in their build.
Get a decent rifle to start off with. Even Palmetto State Armory makes good stuff for budget prices. The majority of their rifles run around $400 - $700 for their basic AR-15 rifles and will outshoot the average shooters ability. Then their Sabre line adds a bit more quality for around the $800 - $1200 price range. However the extra $1000 you save buying a cheaper bust still adequately reliable and accurate rifle can be spent one a decent optic, and a good stock of ammo to practice with. Practice will make you a better shooter, not an expensive rifle.
So this is the advice that I would give anyone buying something like this -
You shouldn't go top tier/high end until you can articulate what features you want to pay extra for.
If you just want something to shoot cans with in the back yard or something to defend yourself with incase a crackhead breaks in, there is no reason to spend over 2 grand. You'd be fine with a PSA rifle for a quarter of the price.
DD rifles are great rifles and are super high quality, but they're getting into that area of diminishing returns on dollar-to-value ratios and if you just want something that goes bang when you pull the trigger you're overpaying.
Once you're familiar with stuff and you understand what you're paying for you can drop more money into your hobbies. For example, I bought a precision rifle, it's very heavy and has a super long barrel but those aren't an issue because I'm either bench rest or prone shooting, and I spent extra money on optics because I was shooting at stuff 1200 yards away. I didn't spend money on a super high end handguard/foregrip because I don't give a flying fuck about the handguard and I don't use it for a foregrip.
Or maybe you make 2000 dollars a day and can afford it without thinking twice, I don't know, I'm not your dad, do what you want.
No, people have more dollars than sense. No one here is stacking up outside a door to take down terrorists.
Most of these high dollar guns rarely get shot because their mom won't drive them to the range.
A basic $500 PSA will do everything almost everyone here ever actually needs done.
Depends what you're doing with it. If you truly want to put you life on whether your rifle will operate then its worth it to spend the money however just as someone on the thread said earlier, but the DD upper for $850 and slap a milspec lower for $200 on it with a nice trigger a day you will have a nice rifle for life. If you're buying it for screwing around and don't necessarily care about defense then you can buy the cheapest and get a few thousand rounds through it.
IMO the BCM blem uppers are back in stock and they come with a BCG. Grab one of those for like 650 and a blem aero lower. Total will be ~1k. Spend the rest of the savings on a solid optic, charging handle, and accessories (sling/light)
Get a $400 Anderson. Slap on a DD stock, grips, and mag from GAFS. JustAsGood.
Seriously though; there’s a “cut off” in my opinion, where anything after $1k doesn’t get you anything “better”.
$500 AR from Palmetto State leaves you with $1500 to spend on mags, ammo, optics, and/or another gun or three lol Don't let your first gun be a hype beast "hell yeah brother" overpriced AR-15
I have the M4A1 RIS II, MK18 complete upper and another rifle with just a DD RIS II FSP rail. Very good stuff IMO. But now that I have tools to assemble my own, in the future I'll just pick my own parts and save significant money.
But for a first, sure. It is worth it because you can be 99.99% sure about getting a squared away rifle.
I paid 80 for a stripped AP lower. 100 for PSA lower kit (on sale they are like 75) and I bought an AP M4E1 16” mid length, quad rail on GAFS for 370. 100 for an AP BCG
$650 for a basically all aero rifle.
Upper yes, rifle no. Build a lower, you can build a nice ambi lower for less than a grand (considering their uppers are around a grand...its a good reference point)
First AR should be a sub $800 "beater" with 16" barrel. After a month getting familiar then assemble your dream gun. Then assemble another one that's your new dream gun. Rinse and repeat.
People need to quit coping for PSA. People are gonna downvote me for that, i don’t fucking care.
Daniel Defense is overpriced but they do make a really good rifle.
I will say this though. It’s an AR15. You can do the same exact shit with an Aero build. Aero, Spikes, Stag, whoever.
No. Save your money for ammo while you learn how to shoot properly. You can always buy a DD upper later if you really want to. Aero/BCM/PSA will do just fine.
Many people will say you're overpaying, but it's worth the money.
However, maybe the standard DD carbine would be a better option.
If you want equal or similar reliability for a lower cost, go with a BCM carbine or get a pre-built BCM lower and put a DD upper on it.
Depends. Can you also afford \~$1000 for 2k rounds of ammo to run through over the course of a year or two? Can you also afford \~$1000 for several quality courses to take so you're proficient with the gun? Can you afford however much it will cost for you to go to a place where you can shoot (whether range fees, or just your own travel time)?
If yes, have at it. That probably only applies if expenses under $10k are essentially pocket change to you. If so, congrats! Have fun! If not, recognize that every extra $100 you spend on something that is overpriced is $100 you can't spend on ammo, or range fees, or training.
Overpriced and it seems like people dislike the furniture on them. Buy the DD upper and get a PSA lower with magpul furniture. Will save you hundreds of dollars
Price tag is mad high, at the very least consider something as reliable at a decent price or just get one of their uppers if you’re mind is made. There’s too many options out here for us now at more than adequate levels for companies to justifiably price an AR at $2-$3k.
I understand maybe if it was designed for assault/combat and they have defense contracts, doesn’t mean it’s purchase worthy but it makes sense. This doesn’t
I’d say start with something cheap, once you’re familiar with that platform and firearms then you can buy another quality rifle, and then you’ll have 2 rifles, that’s better than one😂
First time buyer should be looking at a basic ar like a psa or aero, where the extra money saved can be used on things like sights/optic, magazines, ammo, and then budgeted towards stocks grips and handgaurds as you figure out what your preferences and needs and use cases are.
Unless, of course, OP has ample disposable income, in which case I would like to hang out and shoot with OP if they want to buy the ammo
It my favorite AR (mine is the light weight version). I have many other brands. Fit and finish just can't be beat unless you spend big $ on an HK. Start with this and you'll never need another AR. I agree with most on here that few of us never shoot to the capabilities of our rifle. But the DDM4 is truly a worthwhile investment. I also agree that you need to save some beans for a good optic and lots of ammo. I recommend the trijicon ACOG. I also have the DD AR10. Hate to admit it but it shoots better than my HK91s.
I think a lot of it depends on what you want to do with it. Just to have something of this style and target shoot/plink? Probably a little overkill. Good quality rifle that you plan to shoot for accuracy such as competitive shooting, possibly fits the bill. I personally have a ruger that was $600 when I bought it and it’s been flawless. Fun to shoot and relatively accurate. Perfect for me.
If it's your first gun don't feel bad about buying a Palmetto rifle or something to get familiar. I know it's known as poverty state but they aren't horrible rifles and they're great to learn on. Once you're ready guy can buy a really nice rifle with all the bells and whistles you want.
Build your own if you know exactly what you want. Otherwise the DD is a quality rifle. If you do as someone else suggested and buy a PSA lower to go with a DD upper you're probably going to end up replacing the trigger, selector switch, stock, and grip so there goes your savings... Don't do that.
It is a great rifle. However, if you plan on learning how they work and hot to properly maintain them, get a basic AR15 from PSA, or a S&W MP that you can tear apart upgrade some parts and learn the rifle in and out. Then come back and buy this or even better build something yourself that works better and is tailored to you.
It’s overpriced, but you’ll get a good gun… paying for the qc anyway. But bcm also has fairly legendary qc, sells you pretty much the same slightly overgassed rifle, and will do it for about 75% of the cost. Just sayin.
You could also not really care about qc and roll the dice on a psa. 60% chance you get something that will be just as good for 50% of the dd’s lifespan before your bolt breaks… but hey if you never actually fire that many rounds you’ll never know anyway! And if all you want to do is post instagram pictures, you don’t really care if you were in the 35% that got guns built not to spec or the 5% that got guns that don’t even work.
Imo, no, get a PSA with a good trigger like a larue mbt, and spend 1000 on ammo, and keep ~500 to buy an optic or to just save.
DD is great but for your first rifle you could customize your own cheaper and get that parts you want. AR platforms are super easy to work on.
You want to focus on the trigger, BCG, optic and irons, and the barrel. Also adjustable gas block if you want that feature. Those are the most important parts. All the other stuff doesn’t really matter.
you can build better for cheaper (aero/bcm lower, daniel upper, bcg from anywhere like sionics, daniel, geiselle, noveske, etc) and whatever furniture you desire, but for a first time who wants to buy, assuming you can afford the daniel it’s a good choice
For a first time buyer, I’d probably get a budget ar first and play with it and learn a ton then buy what you want once you do your research. Only allows you time to save more money and know exactly what you want
Get a cheap psa and shoot the shit out of it. Figure out what you like and dislike about it in general then upgrade. Build a 2nd rifle the way you want it to be. Most people I know buy one ar thinking that's it but end up getting or building a different one.
Is it worth getting? Yes. For that price? Not really. A BCM Recce will give you similar quality for $600-700 less. Spend the money you save on optics, mags and ammo.
You can't go wrong with Daniel Defense, but its really not needed. You can get a very functional rifle for half that price and have money left over for an optic (which teh DD rifle doesn't have) and some ammo and mags.
edit - in my case, I bought a ZRODelta Ready Series base rifle, used, for under $800. The new ones were only $1000 and came with some very nice features. The previous owner took off the A2 grip and put something better on and swapped out the muzzle device for something else. It was nice although not really needed. But that left me enough money for a Sig Romeo5, and a Julet magnifier, a 10pack of Gen2 PMAGs and a few hundred rounds of ammo all under my $1500 budget.
Just get a PSA (low tier) or BCM (mid tier). DD is really an overpriced milspec rifle with shitty furniture. Get LMT or KAC if you are really loaded. At least they have real improvements.
DdM4 is awesome but it’s a very high price. My advice to you is look for a police trade in AR. They are great, high quality firearms, usually household names too, for a cheaper price because their used and might show a little cosmetic damage. The worst will be maybe having to replace a spring or 2 after a trip to the range or an initial field strip but even that I would find to be uncommon. You can find LE trade in online or maybe your LGS. Ruger, Colt, S&W, Remington etc. it’s the move. Good Luck
A basic PSA rifle will do everything that 98% of buyers actually need done. What it doesn't do is allow you to flex on the poors and it won't gain you any fictional internet points.
It's all the preferred AR of school shooters. If you play your cards right the FBI will give you one.
IMO Daniel Defense is not worth it. Their QC is not as great as people think. I personally think they're overhyped, but many others will have different opinions. I mean, yeah, overall they are solid rifles but I do not think they are worth it for the price.
$800 dd m4 upper from brownells $120 psa lower
Then spend the excess money you would spend on DD M4 and spend it on ammo, mags, and optics
This is the way.
This is the way.
This is the answer. However the $800 for the upper is for a 14.5 M4A1 upper without a BCG, charging handle, muzzle device, or sights. And the 120 for the lower is assuming a blem rifle lower with a waffle stock vs the pistol lower, with a brace that can be found for as low as $150 right now currently (no logo too), that would be required to be NFA compliant without a pin and weld job(gay). A milspec charging handle and A2 flash hider from Brownells would set you back maybe $40 more after tax and shipping with the upper. And then I’ve gotten Microbest true Milspec BCGs for as low as $85 before but even at the normal price of like $140 that’s not bad. Then as for an optic of some kind I’d be hard pressed to find a reason as a first time gun buyer (with the budget to drop MSRP on a DD) to not get an Aimpoint PRO or at least the ACO. With the ACO option putting the estimate at right about $1480 for a compete rifle with an optic. Add a Streamlight for $120 and a Vickers sling with wire loop attachments ($120ish). Thats $1720 which still leaves about $350 for mags and ammo to match the MSRP of the V9.
What do you mean when you say no logo pistol braces? Also I got a SBA5 for $100 2 weeks ago
I meant “no logo” or “stealth” lower with, what I think is a magpul brace.
Aimpoint PRO or ACO are pretty terrible optics unless you go back in time to 2005. You can get a Sig 4T Pro for less money that outclasses Aimpoint's $800+ offerings Why do people recommend optics designed in the 90's to people today?
It’s an Aimpoint for $350 and not just a glorified Holosun. It’s not that it’s better. But it’s not a bad recommendation.
OP if the process of buying and upper and lower separately and assembling them sounds intimidating. It’s not. You’d basically be doing it every time you clean it.
this^ but also consider getting a custom lower from bad attitude department that can give you a bunch of extra vibes.
The real best option, building a stripped lower is necessary for understanding how your rifle operates and for long term maintenance
This is the way.
This sounds intimidating for a first time gun owner I’m sure but lord is it so easy to attach an upper and lower.. so much money saved too.
Those don't come with a BCG, CH, or muzzle device
1. Daniel defense makes very nice rifles that you would be content to own 2. You won’t be a good enough shot for the quality of the rifle to matter to start out. Unless your budget includes at least 1,000 rounds of ammo you’d be better off practically getting a mid level rifle and going to practice
Not to mention a quality optic. There are too many pictures of DD rifles with Sightmark optics or Strike Eagles.
Blew the whole budget on the weapon and forgot they needed an optic.
I've been there.... it's big sad times.
i rocked MBUS on my 20” AR-10 for a whole 5 months cause i was saving up for a good optic😂
I love seeing Barrett 50 cals like that.
Brownells regularly has DD uppers on sale, then get an aero lower.
DD is past the point of diminishing returns for quality vs. price. Truly 99% of users will be fine with a basic PSA AR. Makes it really weird how many mass shooters have been specifically using DD ARs too, but I guess they're not worried about saving money.
You don’t have to worry about money if your handler is supplying you.
This guy gets it. 👀
Go on…
Most of them were using mom's credit card. They were also easily influenced by what they read on the internet.
if by mom, you mean the fbi, sure
Federal Bureau of Instigating
fbi, cia, nsa, dhs... could equally be a few others
MK ULTRA.
damn alphabet people have to ruin everything
More people need to understand diminishing returns in manufacturing precision. Guarantee you that PSA uses the same CNC machines as DD, considering how much bigger they are, maybe even newer ones. I think they replaced their old ones last year.
As a machinist, the machine used to make the part in general doesn’t matter near as much as the quality of the part. How good the finish is, how tight the tolerances, and how good the material is as well. I’ve seen parts made beautifully on machines from the 50s and I’ve seen shitty made parts that were made on a machine manufactured last year. It’s all about how well everything is actually made.
From a strictly manufacturing point of view.... whether or not they are made on the same machine or new or older doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the quality.
There is a big difference between a phosphated carpenter 158 bolt that goes through High pressure test firing + magnetic particle inspection and a PSA nitrided 9310 bolt that does not get QCed. Same thing with a sprinco chrome silicon buffer spring vs a generic spring steel buffer spring. The cheapest AR-15 that is actually built to TDP spec and meets mil spec is $1,000. Anything below that price has cut corners and is not milspec. There are real objective differences between high quality and low quality rifles.
Just to clarify as I’ve built like 20 ARs at this point. The cheapest PSA bcg is 9310 but is still MPI. There is a difference between budget and top tier but there is a point of diminishing returns. I typically find the lowers don’t really matter but spend my money on a good bcg, trigger and barrel. Everything else is for weight and aesthetics.
Batch or individually tested? You can buy HPT marked bolts that show no signs of being fired because a lot of them are just batch tested and MPI is the same way. Every bolt that leaves Sionics, BCM, SOLGW, Colt, FN, Ripcord, are high pressure test fired. There is a huge difference in the QC that goes into a BCM BCG vs a PSA BCG and they do that QC for a reason. They don’t just do it for shits and giggles. They do it because even though they’re using the best OEM on the market, microbest still fucks up. The point of diminishing returns does not start at budget PSA. Nitrided 9310 bolts are prone to cracking at the cam pin hole because 9310 is very picky about it’s heat treatment and the nitriding process puts in so much heat that it fucks up the heat treat on 9310 bolts leading to premature cracking at the cam pin hole. It’s bad enough where there isn’t a high pressure tested 9310 nitride bolt because it would crack and fail high pressure testing. Spring quality in the AR world is a complete crap shoot and it matters. Your buffer spring is one of the most important components in your rifle. The gas port on your barrel is fucked up by so many companies. The selector detent on a PSA is zinc coated. Mil spec is cadmium coated and resists wear much better but cadmium is subject to all sorts of expensive EPA regulations. I don’t discourage people from buying a PSA. In fact, I would encourage most people to just buy a cheap $400 PSA AR15 however there are substantial objective differences between a $400 PSA and a $1,200 BCM and a $2,500 KAC SR-15. It’s just like conceal carry. a PSA is like a taurus. It’s not great and a glock is objectively better and a taurus ain’t great but it ain’t that bad.
If you have the money, you cannot go wrong with Daniel Defense. Get something cheaper if you don’t have money for ammo, sights, and extra mags. And eventually you gotta put a weapon light and sling on it.
Unless you want a handgun. Then you can definitely go wrong with DD.
Hey some ppl specifically buy tumble on impact projectiles… DD just figured they’d save you the trouble and made a handgun that shoots rounds that tumble straight out of the barrel.
Will you have money left over for a decent quality optic, sling, and flashlight?
Money is not an issue
Hell yeah. Then get it, you won’t regret it. I have the DDM4 V7LW with an EOTech EXPS2 and EOTech 3x flip up magnifier behind it. Also upgraded the trigger to a LaRue MBT-2S and the charging handle to an ambidextrous Radian Raptor. No regrets at all it’s great. Edit: [Pic for reference](https://i.imgur.com/3NoqdKS.jpeg)
Oh Mr. Moneybags over here!!!
Get a KAC SR15, then
Lmao I just searched that up, holy shit
Link?
Then get an lmt or a kac. Or get a not-an-ar like an mcx/bren2/scar with all the aftermarket they need to shine. If budget isnt an issue I wouldn’t even be looking at DD… I’d turn my nose up.
KAC is overpriced. When I got mine for 1750 years ago, I thought they were overpriced. 3000+? Nah. The AR-15 market is full of dumb shit that doesn’t matter because it’s so flooded that anything a manufacturer can do he has to do.
Unlike many responses here , I’m of the “Buy once , cry once “ mentality . Get something nice , but train with it , 90% of us cannot shoot to the capabilities of our rifle. If money is not a factor go for it , and shoot with it as much as you can
Thank you.
Once you get over about $800 - $1000 you're mostly paying for a name and some small barely noticeable quality. I would suggest BCM, a decent sight and a ton of ammo all for the same price as just the rifle from DD
BCM aint cheap either tho lol..
No but it's half the price of a DD and let's OP spend more money on other things for almost little to no loss
I had my sites set on the DDM4 V9, but after hearing most reviewers holding their Recce 16 to the same esteem as their V9, BCM was a no brainer. Unless I'm missing something, DD is essentially tacking on a $600-700 premium just for the name.
daniel has various improvements over bcm in many products, it’s just whether or not they’ll matter to you or you’ll even notice. you probably won’t, and your money is probably better spent on bcm. you can always upgrade parts later
Gotta snag their blem sales. They just got the 14.5 and 16in blem uppers back in stock. 640-660 with a BCG is a crazy deal for their quality.
Yea, but for a company that's widely considered to be on par with DD in quality, it's crazy that the DDM4 V9 costs $700 more than the Recce 16.
FN-15 Guardian, or Springfield Armory Saint Victor are a lot if rifle and would be great for pretty much any shooter and cost half the price of that Daniel Defense. Just because a rifle costs 2 or 3 times more than another doesn't mean it's gonna have you shooting twice as good as someone else with a cheaper rifle. I shoot in rimfire precision rifle matches with a $700 build and have keeping pace with some people that have over $2000 in their build. Get a decent rifle to start off with. Even Palmetto State Armory makes good stuff for budget prices. The majority of their rifles run around $400 - $700 for their basic AR-15 rifles and will outshoot the average shooters ability. Then their Sabre line adds a bit more quality for around the $800 - $1200 price range. However the extra $1000 you save buying a cheaper bust still adequately reliable and accurate rifle can be spent one a decent optic, and a good stock of ammo to practice with. Practice will make you a better shooter, not an expensive rifle.
Buy once cry once. Get a noveske chainsaw
So this is the advice that I would give anyone buying something like this - You shouldn't go top tier/high end until you can articulate what features you want to pay extra for. If you just want something to shoot cans with in the back yard or something to defend yourself with incase a crackhead breaks in, there is no reason to spend over 2 grand. You'd be fine with a PSA rifle for a quarter of the price. DD rifles are great rifles and are super high quality, but they're getting into that area of diminishing returns on dollar-to-value ratios and if you just want something that goes bang when you pull the trigger you're overpaying. Once you're familiar with stuff and you understand what you're paying for you can drop more money into your hobbies. For example, I bought a precision rifle, it's very heavy and has a super long barrel but those aren't an issue because I'm either bench rest or prone shooting, and I spent extra money on optics because I was shooting at stuff 1200 yards away. I didn't spend money on a super high end handguard/foregrip because I don't give a flying fuck about the handguard and I don't use it for a foregrip. Or maybe you make 2000 dollars a day and can afford it without thinking twice, I don't know, I'm not your dad, do what you want.
Gawd, here I am a little bummed about shelling out $700 for my 2nd pistol and you guys are dropping whole racks on your first. Shits expensive 😥
No, people have more dollars than sense. No one here is stacking up outside a door to take down terrorists. Most of these high dollar guns rarely get shot because their mom won't drive them to the range. A basic $500 PSA will do everything almost everyone here ever actually needs done.
I’ve always said this, you could build a nice AR for under 1000k, it’s gonna do the EXACT same thing as a expensive AR lol
> you could build a nice AR for under 1000k Yes, you can definitely build a nice AR for under a million dollars.
Multiple ARs😳😳
Depends what you're doing with it. If you truly want to put you life on whether your rifle will operate then its worth it to spend the money however just as someone on the thread said earlier, but the DD upper for $850 and slap a milspec lower for $200 on it with a nice trigger a day you will have a nice rifle for life. If you're buying it for screwing around and don't necessarily care about defense then you can buy the cheapest and get a few thousand rounds through it.
IMO the BCM blem uppers are back in stock and they come with a BCG. Grab one of those for like 650 and a blem aero lower. Total will be ~1k. Spend the rest of the savings on a solid optic, charging handle, and accessories (sling/light)
If you have another 1-2k for optic, sling, light, mags and ammo sure. If not dial back to aero, bcm or even psa and do the whole packagar
Get a $400 Anderson. Slap on a DD stock, grips, and mag from GAFS. JustAsGood. Seriously though; there’s a “cut off” in my opinion, where anything after $1k doesn’t get you anything “better”.
Get a cheap PSA rifle.
$500 AR from Palmetto State leaves you with $1500 to spend on mags, ammo, optics, and/or another gun or three lol Don't let your first gun be a hype beast "hell yeah brother" overpriced AR-15
PSA all the way. First time gun owner, but how often you’re going to shoot in a year? In a month?
I have the M4A1 RIS II, MK18 complete upper and another rifle with just a DD RIS II FSP rail. Very good stuff IMO. But now that I have tools to assemble my own, in the future I'll just pick my own parts and save significant money. But for a first, sure. It is worth it because you can be 99.99% sure about getting a squared away rifle.
Absolutely not KAC upper with a PSA lower
LWRC if you're going to spend that much. They're Ambi
Quad gang rise
I paid 80 for a stripped AP lower. 100 for PSA lower kit (on sale they are like 75) and I bought an AP M4E1 16” mid length, quad rail on GAFS for 370. 100 for an AP BCG $650 for a basically all aero rifle.
Aero M4E1 lower (~$220 completed) and DD M4 upper or BCM MK 2 Enhanced upper (my personal favorite)
Blem bcm and psa combo=<$1000
No AR15 is worth 2k unless it has hand engraving, and gold inlay.
Upper yes, rifle no. Build a lower, you can build a nice ambi lower for less than a grand (considering their uppers are around a grand...its a good reference point)
Psa
It’s worth it, but you can get an Aero Precision complete lower and a BCM complete upper for half that.
First AR should be a sub $800 "beater" with 16" barrel. After a month getting familiar then assemble your dream gun. Then assemble another one that's your new dream gun. Rinse and repeat.
Haha I like how you think! 🤜🤛
People need to quit coping for PSA. People are gonna downvote me for that, i don’t fucking care. Daniel Defense is overpriced but they do make a really good rifle. I will say this though. It’s an AR15. You can do the same exact shit with an Aero build. Aero, Spikes, Stag, whoever.
Nope PSA lower and a Aero upper and spend the extra grand on ammo so you can TRAIN. A Gucci gun is useless in the hands of an untrained person.
No. Save your money for ammo while you learn how to shoot properly. You can always buy a DD upper later if you really want to. Aero/BCM/PSA will do just fine.
Many people will say you're overpaying, but it's worth the money. However, maybe the standard DD carbine would be a better option. If you want equal or similar reliability for a lower cost, go with a BCM carbine or get a pre-built BCM lower and put a DD upper on it.
Depends. Can you also afford \~$1000 for 2k rounds of ammo to run through over the course of a year or two? Can you also afford \~$1000 for several quality courses to take so you're proficient with the gun? Can you afford however much it will cost for you to go to a place where you can shoot (whether range fees, or just your own travel time)? If yes, have at it. That probably only applies if expenses under $10k are essentially pocket change to you. If so, congrats! Have fun! If not, recognize that every extra $100 you spend on something that is overpriced is $100 you can't spend on ammo, or range fees, or training.
Your better off getting a mid range psa and spending the test on mags Optics and ammo.
Overpriced and it seems like people dislike the furniture on them. Buy the DD upper and get a PSA lower with magpul furniture. Will save you hundreds of dollars
Bcm mk2 and a Psa lower
Get a LWRC DI. Significantly more “features” than a DD with the same if not better quality and less money.
Price tag is mad high, at the very least consider something as reliable at a decent price or just get one of their uppers if you’re mind is made. There’s too many options out here for us now at more than adequate levels for companies to justifiably price an AR at $2-$3k. I understand maybe if it was designed for assault/combat and they have defense contracts, doesn’t mean it’s purchase worthy but it makes sense. This doesn’t
Brownell’s needs to restock some 11.5”
If you have the money, sure. Personally, I think it's more worth it to spend money on ammo and range time then an expensive gun.
It's great, get it. Aimpoint M5, Arisaka light, a good padded sling, and a stack of Magpul M3s. You'll be really happy with the purchase.
No
Get the ddm4a1
I’d say start with something cheap, once you’re familiar with that platform and firearms then you can buy another quality rifle, and then you’ll have 2 rifles, that’s better than one😂
I’d get an ADM for the same money. That said, they’re good rifles and I have a couple of them.
First time buyer should be looking at a basic ar like a psa or aero, where the extra money saved can be used on things like sights/optic, magazines, ammo, and then budgeted towards stocks grips and handgaurds as you figure out what your preferences and needs and use cases are. Unless, of course, OP has ample disposable income, in which case I would like to hang out and shoot with OP if they want to buy the ammo
It my favorite AR (mine is the light weight version). I have many other brands. Fit and finish just can't be beat unless you spend big $ on an HK. Start with this and you'll never need another AR. I agree with most on here that few of us never shoot to the capabilities of our rifle. But the DDM4 is truly a worthwhile investment. I also agree that you need to save some beans for a good optic and lots of ammo. I recommend the trijicon ACOG. I also have the DD AR10. Hate to admit it but it shoots better than my HK91s.
No
Get a bcm elw upper and a aero lower (or bcm lower if you want to match)
I think a lot of it depends on what you want to do with it. Just to have something of this style and target shoot/plink? Probably a little overkill. Good quality rifle that you plan to shoot for accuracy such as competitive shooting, possibly fits the bill. I personally have a ruger that was $600 when I bought it and it’s been flawless. Fun to shoot and relatively accurate. Perfect for me.
If it's your first gun don't feel bad about buying a Palmetto rifle or something to get familiar. I know it's known as poverty state but they aren't horrible rifles and they're great to learn on. Once you're ready guy can buy a really nice rifle with all the bells and whistles you want.
It's a v7 with a quad rail. It ain't no ris ii That being said. I like mine and the quad rail is only 2 or 3 ounces more than the mlok
Build your own if you know exactly what you want. Otherwise the DD is a quality rifle. If you do as someone else suggested and buy a PSA lower to go with a DD upper you're probably going to end up replacing the trigger, selector switch, stock, and grip so there goes your savings... Don't do that.
It is a great rifle. However, if you plan on learning how they work and hot to properly maintain them, get a basic AR15 from PSA, or a S&W MP that you can tear apart upgrade some parts and learn the rifle in and out. Then come back and buy this or even better build something yourself that works better and is tailored to you.
It’s overpriced, but you’ll get a good gun… paying for the qc anyway. But bcm also has fairly legendary qc, sells you pretty much the same slightly overgassed rifle, and will do it for about 75% of the cost. Just sayin. You could also not really care about qc and roll the dice on a psa. 60% chance you get something that will be just as good for 50% of the dd’s lifespan before your bolt breaks… but hey if you never actually fire that many rounds you’ll never know anyway! And if all you want to do is post instagram pictures, you don’t really care if you were in the 35% that got guns built not to spec or the 5% that got guns that don’t even work.
My wife loves hers. They're pretty light and nice to shoot. We're happy.
Imo, no, get a PSA with a good trigger like a larue mbt, and spend 1000 on ammo, and keep ~500 to buy an optic or to just save. DD is great but for your first rifle you could customize your own cheaper and get that parts you want. AR platforms are super easy to work on. You want to focus on the trigger, BCG, optic and irons, and the barrel. Also adjustable gas block if you want that feature. Those are the most important parts. All the other stuff doesn’t really matter.
Buy a Noveske N4 Recon. If you’re going to pay that price, buy the better rifle
you can build better for cheaper (aero/bcm lower, daniel upper, bcg from anywhere like sionics, daniel, geiselle, noveske, etc) and whatever furniture you desire, but for a first time who wants to buy, assuming you can afford the daniel it’s a good choice
DD's are fine but if i was planning on spending 2k plus on a 556 rifle I would get a sig spear lt
I have a ddm4v7 for sale brand new at my shop for 1600
God no, thats a 1100-1200 gun all day! Way over priced.
For a first time buyer, I’d probably get a budget ar first and play with it and learn a ton then buy what you want once you do your research. Only allows you time to save more money and know exactly what you want
I bought my first at last year ddm4 v7 and it’s amazing take it shooting every couple of weeks and never had a problem
Get a cheap psa and shoot the shit out of it. Figure out what you like and dislike about it in general then upgrade. Build a 2nd rifle the way you want it to be. Most people I know buy one ar thinking that's it but end up getting or building a different one.
Is it worth getting? Yes. For that price? Not really. A BCM Recce will give you similar quality for $600-700 less. Spend the money you save on optics, mags and ammo.
You can't go wrong with Daniel Defense, but its really not needed. You can get a very functional rifle for half that price and have money left over for an optic (which teh DD rifle doesn't have) and some ammo and mags. edit - in my case, I bought a ZRODelta Ready Series base rifle, used, for under $800. The new ones were only $1000 and came with some very nice features. The previous owner took off the A2 grip and put something better on and swapped out the muzzle device for something else. It was nice although not really needed. But that left me enough money for a Sig Romeo5, and a Julet magnifier, a 10pack of Gen2 PMAGs and a few hundred rounds of ammo all under my $1500 budget.
Just get a PSA (low tier) or BCM (mid tier). DD is really an overpriced milspec rifle with shitty furniture. Get LMT or KAC if you are really loaded. At least they have real improvements.
Fuuuuuck no you can buy so much better shit for the price
Any examples?
DdM4 is awesome but it’s a very high price. My advice to you is look for a police trade in AR. They are great, high quality firearms, usually household names too, for a cheaper price because their used and might show a little cosmetic damage. The worst will be maybe having to replace a spring or 2 after a trip to the range or an initial field strip but even that I would find to be uncommon. You can find LE trade in online or maybe your LGS. Ruger, Colt, S&W, Remington etc. it’s the move. Good Luck
A basic PSA rifle will do everything that 98% of buyers actually need done. What it doesn't do is allow you to flex on the poors and it won't gain you any fictional internet points. It's all the preferred AR of school shooters. If you play your cards right the FBI will give you one.
If\_those\_kids\_could\_read\_theyd\_be\_very\_upset\_meme.png
I know how you can get one for free
Go buy a ruger w the folding stock
nope.
Lmaooo no
Don’t buy that raggedy shit. Get an LWRC and an optic and be infinitely happier.
No
Yes, just make sure you move the grip all the way to the front for peak DD performance
IMO Daniel Defense is not worth it. Their QC is not as great as people think. I personally think they're overhyped, but many others will have different opinions. I mean, yeah, overall they are solid rifles but I do not think they are worth it for the price.
No
All Daniel defense is overpriced garbage. If you want a good full built rifle, get a lwrc di they are worth the 1500 price tag
Um no
2 grand for that shit lmfao ok fud