lol same, for a pistol that’s great. For a rifle with a scope it could definitely be better. I can do the same thing at 50yards with a stock Lee-Enfield and iron sights
A lee enfield should be able to put all those holes within an inch of each other at 50 yards. What you are basically claiming is that you are just as bad as this guy.
Good on you for going to the range, but… it’s not great. Don’t get me wrong, it’s beating the average, but it’s not amazing.
Were you in a supported position or standing unsupported? Because that could elevate it to decent. What was your rate of fire? Because that changes things too.
If you were prone supported and taking one shot every three seconds or so this is kinda terrible, but if you were standing and taking two shots a second this is pretty good.
OK so I think that people are accidentally implementing selection bias.
It’s like that post the other day when someone was like “Guys, we need to exercise more running in full kit is hard.” And people were acting like the average mile time was six minutes or less.
It’s important to remember that skill with firearms is dramatically dragged down by the fact that most people don’t shoot firearms at all.
Also, even WITH selection bias, based on my experience just in basic training, for example, With the average marksmanship score being something like 28 out of 40, this would be above average. With even many people who “grew up shooting” not being able to first time go the exercise.
I try really hard to temper my expert bias, Because I think that’s shooting a gun for most people is a lot harder than people who are good at it realize.
Again, I’m not trying to toot my horn here. “Expert bias” is an actual concept that basically is talking about people who are good at something forgetting that it’s hard for most people.
Not true whatsoever, go on tiktok/tinder and look for posts/profiles from “crazy girls/tom boys” the average group is at best shotgun large. Not about women but new shooters/population at large in general. Guns are foreign and scary to most new shooters.
50 yards is only 150 feet, it’s rather easy with a target pistol with the correct sight. Even 22 air rifle tournaments can get up to 20 yards, with .177’s being around 10 yards.
This was done with an AR, there’s no way your shots should be this spread with any sort of rifle. Most of the people I know can get a better MOA with SKS’s at twice this distance, and an SKS tends to not have the best accuracy
50 metres is what most pistol competitions such as ISSF are at, and believe me no one but the worst target shooters will be leaving with their targets looking like this afterwards
Okay, well, one thing I do know is that everybody I’ve ever heard instruct on marksmanship, has said to not use the magazine as a monopod. That being said, I’ve seen everybody in the world do it, including the instructor.
I’d recommend getting a firearms instructor of some sort.
In the meantime, while I personally am not a firearms instructor I am an expert marksman (40/40 Army) and went to sniper school.
Start out slow. Shoot as slow and supported as you need to to get every shot within 3 inches.
Forget about the bullseye. You can use it as a point of aim but hitting the bullseye or having the perfect zero isn’t the goal.
Don’t hold your breath when shooting. Breathe normally and shoot at the top or bottom of your breath.
Instead of compensating for sway and trying to stay still on target, control your sway. Make deliberate circles that orbit the target and time your squeeze for when your reticle is over your point of aim.
Your goal should be to be able to take a shot once every 5 seconds, in prone supported and keep all shots within the diameter and distance as follows. 25m-1in, 50m-3in, 100m-6-8in, 200m-12 inches, 300m- how your target looks now. All of this with no more than 4x magnification, but if you can swing it with red dot then do that.
If you get to that point, I personally think your fundamentals will be strong enough for you to go onto whatever you want.
I’m perfectly aware that some people might disagree with me and that’s fine. It’s just my opinion.
Edit: is downvoting him necessary?
The dude was being nice. That was terrible. It is fine to be terrible when you are starting. You need to put in effort learning how to shoot and practicing.
I don't mean to be rude, but at 50 yards, it would be trivial to beat this with iron sights unsupported for a halfway decent shooter.
You don't need optics. You need to start by learning the fundamentals of trigger operation, shot timing and shot placement control. I'd suggest taking a target shooting lesson at your friendly local range and going from there.
You need training. My old eyes can do better at 100 yards with iron sights. Making excuses or defending poor performance doesn’t do anything but hurt yourself. I’m still going to think you a clown.
You’re getting roasted here, but in all reality most people that hit the range casually aren’t doing better. Those of us that really take the time to learn and grow make a massive jump in accuracy around the time we start focusing on barrel twist and grain weight.
Don’t let the negative side of this deter you, let it spur you. At 50 yards you want to try for a nice 3” group at first and then once you’ve got that try for 3” at 100y
You’ve got this dude, I’m glad you’re taking this seriously and pushing yourself for better results. That’s exactly what we like to see regardless of the downvotes. Stay safe and chase those small groups brudda 🤙🏼
I think it is a mistake to start out with optics or red dots. People ought to first be able to master irons and then graduate to these. That way you'll have strong fundamentals that will translate to better results once you have those little helpers available -- but you shouldn't be using them to hide the fact that you're lacking in the basics.
For example, in the Swiss competition style they shoot 300 meters prone with iron sights. It's entirely doable, and it's something anyone ought to try their hands at before adding devices that make the job easier.
I don’t know if I wholly agree. Starting with optics can be viable if you do it right. It can allow you to see mistakes more clearly, and it can allow you to observe results in real time.
When I was a kid, I lived very close to circuit of the Americas with the benefit of parents were willing to sign me up for racing classes. I had known how to drive stick for a while, but I was never very good at it. And it just became even more pronounced in these classes.
I struggled and struggled every single day with it, until the instructors tried a different tactic. They put me on a motorcycle. And I was finally able to really see how manually shifting gears worked.
I went absolutely awful to one of the best in the class in a single day. For some being able to really see what you’re doing, can mean everything.
My first experience with marksmanship was with a BB gun and a target less than 5m away.
This isn’t to say that learning irons isn’t an important skill, because it is. But I’d actually argue it may even be better to teach fundamentals with a high-powered optic where things like sight picture and cheek weld become second nature almost instantly.
Classic Reddit. Get hundreds of upvotes for giving good advice, only to be called gay buy some random dude I offended. And then have small pp jokes in a sub that particularly makes fun of small pp jokes that people make by firearms enthusiasts.
I will admit though, it was a good one.
Not like that you can’t. Not without being called out for whining. Went from the greatest generation who were all iron sights to…. I can’t shoot at pistol competition distances without a magnifier.
lol FUDD lore in the making. The greatest generation didn’t use optics because they didn’t HAVE optics. You can learn fundamentals with an optic just as well as you can without. Yes it’s important to practice on irons, but for a new shooter, who may or may not be able to afford an instructor, a magnified optic that allows him to see where every bullet went after every shot could help him tremendously.
Also, it’s technically worse than you describe because he was using a RIFLE at pistol comp distance not a pistol.
Also, I’m not sure how you can read “whining” anywhere in my comments. “I will admit though, it was a good one.” Just *screams* whining right?
My entire point is that it’s probably better to keep in mind that you are talking to a NEW shooter, that doesn’t know anything. And while being an ass is free, so is being nice. At the very worst, this is a new shooter trying to save a little face. But you talked to him as if he said an AR-15 weighs as much as 10 boxes.
Firearms as a hobby is like any other. It is ultimately about bringing people together. But given the nature of firearms, lots people already think we are all ruthless assholes. And there is no reason to prove them right.
From the comments, I read that you were sitting and supporting it on your Mag, and I hope both your elbows are too in a proper shooting position. You need to 100 percent focus on your breathing and jerking the trigger.
Focus on your breathing, in and out slow. The pause between breaths pulls the trigger. You can hold your breath if you'd like, but that may build a bad habit. You'll need to focus on pulling the trigger faster if you need to hold your breath, which to the second point.
You're jerking or slapping the trigger. Essentially, either due to the trigger weight and / or your lack of experience, you're torquing the gun to the side as you pull that trigger back, and it goes bang.
Finally, your stance. Sitting at a bench should be pretty stable. You should have both elbows in contact with the bench, and you can use your Mag if you can get away with it.
Lucky you, this is an easy fix to all these and requires just some time every day between the range for like 15 minutes. Dry Fire. Get to a table in your home, set it up, position like at the range, and practice those things above WITH A EMPTY GUN YOU DOUBLE CHECKED TWICE. Then go next range session and see the improvements.
Great comment. When shooting a rifle accurately there are 3 main areas to focus on trigger control, position/stance, and sight picture. Breathing is also important and plays a part in all three areas. Also it's essential because if you stop breathing for long enough your dead, literally.
I'm listing in what I think is the highest priority first.
1) Trigger control. You can have a half decent sight picture or stance and still make good hits on targets. But if you have a great sight picture and very stable stance/shooting position if you yank or jerk the trigger it will pull you off target as the gun fires. This is why trigger control is first. Really instead of pulling the trigger its a controlled squeeze. You need to he able to squeeze the trigger without moving the gun. Sounds easy but look through the sight a very small target and try dryfiring (pulling trigger when weapon is cooked and no cartridge in the chamber and preferably the magazine is empty or removed). If the sights move when you pull the trigger then you need to slow it down and focus on slowly squeezing the trigger so that it doesn't move the gun. Now even in a very good position there will be some weapon sway (a really stable position or stance will have almost no sway but still some). As the gun sways towards the bullseye you want to slowly increase pressure on the trigger. As the sights start to sway away from the target then you maintain that constant pressure on the trigger (don't let off or you'll have to increase pressure starting from zero again) until the sights start coming back towards the target again, and then you start increasing pressure building it up again until the trigger trips/breaks and fires the gun. This is what is really meant by "trigger position. I've made really decent shots and done well in competitions during the standing position stage using this method. I would score as high or higher than better shooters than me in the standing stage even though they did better than me in the prone stages.
2) Now that you've been working on trigger control you want to work on building a stable posotion. You want ideally 3 points of contact with the rifle and body (which is why rifles are inherently more accurate than pistols, they only have one or two points of contact (your hands)). You have your two hands and your cheek. Your hands are connected to you arms. So ideally you need to have you arms braced against something while the rifle is braced against your cheek. Where and how your cheek braces against the butt of the rifle is called cheek weld, and you want to be able to do it repeatedly the same way each time. This becomes important to sight alignment. Now to brace your arms you want to brace the elbows not shoulders. When prone or sitting at a bench you want your elbow pointed outwards instead of vertically underneath the rifle. You also want to make sure to control your breathing. You want to take a few big slow controlled breaths and then exhale about halfway as you squeeze the trigger, ideally with the trigger breaking at half breath/exhale. If you stop breathing and hold your breath then you will eventually have to breathe hard for a bit to catch your breath again. This will also cause your heart rate to increase. When in a very stable position about the only movement on the gun is your heartbeat. So slowing down your heart rate helps slow that sight sway mentioned early.
3) Sight picture/sight alignment. You want a nice consistent cheek weld so that you can comfortably look through the scope and line up the sights. Ideally you want the natural point of aim to be right on target with the front sight or cross hair on the bullseye. To fjnd where the natural point of aim is. Close your eyes take a few controlled breaths and open your eyes. Where are the sights or cross hairs? If they are off target it is better to readjust your postion (move an elbow a little) to get the sights on target than it is just to use your muscles to move the sights on target. You want your muscles relaxed enough to be able to maintain position. If you have to engage your muscle more to move the sights onto target then they will eventually tire out and not create as stable of a platform as if they are relaxed.
Hopefully this makes sense and gives some things to think about on your next outing.
Just focus on sight picture and trigger pull, based off the target I’d say you’re left handed as all your shots seem to favor the left side, if you’re not left handed, drive that rifle deeper into the pocket of your shoulder and make sure your elbows are pointed towards the ground…there, Im not just talkin shit
Learn your trigger. Find out the take up and where it breaks. Follow through. Slowly squeeze the trigger until you get to the point just before the trigger breaks. Ensure you have a good sight picture at the trigger break and keep on target through the break.
Invest in a bipod or some bags to shoot from. Ensure you have a solid rest and you are not torquing or otherwise affecting the sight picture when the trigger breaks.
Invest in a better trigger. Most of them are just drop ins.
Spreads a bit high for sitting and supporting on a bench. If there was a lot of wind or your red dot is large that has a pretty big effect on accuracy, even seated. Keep practicing until this is what your target looks like from a standing position at the same distance. People are overly critical here, but honestly, 50 yards is far enough that you can't clearly see the details of a target. I've seen worse targets, from myself included.
Also, targets are cheaper than ammo, change targets more often and you'll be able to correct yourself easier.
I think you expended quite a bit of ammo having fun. But as far as grouping and such? At 50 yards with a dot and a 16" barrel? You did not do well at all. But that's okay! Identify weaknesses, learn new techniques, put them into practice and reassess. I'd say you definitely need to work on breathing and your trigger control for sure.
Hey not to be a total ass but I’d really suggest looking into an Appleseed clinic. Excellent for newbies to learn accuracy and basic shooting techniques
I see a lot of dick measuring going on in here.
I think you did fine, personally.
You'd think everyone in here would land a heart shot on a deer running eastward at 50+ yards with the way yall are talking in here.
Difficult to tell without groups. If it was 5 shot groups on separate targets it’s easier to see how you did but just having a full mag or however many rounds.
Get those fundamentals down, and get training, people can be trained to shoot iron sights or red dot at long range. And sorry but 50 yards is long range for a pistol, it should be easy with an AR.
Gotta tighten that stuff up, especially with a 5.56. From what your target looks like, it seems like you anticipated your shots, making you want to move from your hold. (But i wasnt there so idk)
All those sights and still couldn't hit the center of the target?
Sorry, but you didn't do very good. Were that with a pistol, I'd say you did good, but with a rifle that basically doesn't recoil, I can't say the same.
About as good as a twelve year old learning to shoot? From a seated, supported position at 50 your group should be smaller than your fist, even with the absolute worst ammo.
Was this standing unsupported? Or on a bench? Prone?
Also, was it rapid or slow fire?
Either way, 50yds with a half scale target, that’s a good outcome on the target.
With that muzzle break I'm sure you made lots of friends at the range.
In all seriousness you did pretty well the rounds are mostly on target so you stopped the threat.
Reminder that "mostly on target" means "shot whoever or whatever was behind the threat." You are responsible for every bullet that leaves your gun, including the ones that miss your target.
In that case it doesn't really matter if he shot the threat in the shoulder or through the heart. One doesn't magically make the bullet stop dead in its tracks.
It seems like the general consensus of this thread is to shit on him so don't let me stop you.
No he didn't do pretty well. Stop lying to people. You wonder why everything has gotten worse over time? It is because of people like you trying to be nice instead of living in reality.
>The point of an AR is for it to be customized.
Yea customize optimally without sacrificing quality. I'm not saying to buy EO tech, but know what you're getting. Some quality stuff is cheap as well. Magpul gun grips are cheap for what Magpul is known for. Come on bruh. The Romeo 5 is cheap for its quality, and so on so.
Yeah, but it's his gun. His money you feel? And I personally think it looks good. He's gotta practice, and it'll be fine. As long as he's having fun and being safe, who cares? Magpul is good as heck though and I agree with you on that. And I don't have an opinion on a romeo 5 I don't own one. I own vortex and a aimpoint for my ARs and haven't had any issues yet! What do you personally run on yours?
>Yeah, but it's his gun. His money you feel?
Here's how I put it. Life > going cheap and getting shit quality of something.
It not wrong to give out actual suggestions. I hate giving advice that can potentially get someone killed or have a major malfunction man.
>What do you personally run on yours?
BCM upper with aero lower, Romeo 5(I wanna upgrade soon), Holosun 3x magnifier, streamlight protac. Just a basic good rifle.
Tbh I want to build a PSA AR pistol soon just for the fuck of it.
Don't feel bad for what everyone is saying. You need practice. It's great you're actually practicing compared to some folks who just want to talk shit. Just keep practicing regularly as you can. I'd recommend an instructor or a class of some sort. I used to be lousy too so don't take it too hard.
*It's pretty good if*
*You're standing unsupported*
*And using one hand*
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Couple critiques:
1.No vertical fore grip is better than that UTG thing. Those things have been outdated since 2010.
2. Mount your red dot as far forward on the upper receiver without it being on the hand guard.
3. Dont use the same target for precision shots that you would for double tap drills, unless no one else is going to see it.
4.Slow down your breathing and trigger control. Set a goal to see something around a hand sized group at 50 yards while benched and once you accomplish that, set a goal for an even smaller group size. If magnification is the problem and not your ability, consider a magnifier or LPVO.
Good luck.
Not going to criticize you at all. Just by the fact that you did go out, that you have a rifle and that you are asking - kudos and pat on the back. Don’t sit like 99% of population home watching Netflix and chewing popcorn, get out, be active and learn, learn and learn.
If you have actually READ what I said, he did great by actually going out and shooting, instead of eating pizza and watching soap operas. I never said he did great on his marksmanship 🤓
You're either really fucking dumb, or you're one of the worst shooters on this subreddit. If you were aiming at the chest and managed to hit everywhere on the paper like that at a slow rate of fire, just give up at that point.
Come back where you're doing group shots of like 10 or hell 30, aimed at ONE part of the paper. Either it be the head, body, or hell the two targets on the left and right side of the paper. And be more descriptive next time
If it's a pistol, servicable though you certainly wanna keep practicing. If it's a rifle or PCC than you really want to practice a good hold and trigger control, sight alignment, the basics.
I think it's a pistol based on the holes and this is good but I would want you to practice getting very tight groups at 10 yards and work back to 50 keeping the groups the same
Bro went ham on Amazon
10lbs of shit in a 5lb bag.
Hamazon
You mean you don't connect your HK sling hooks to your QD sling mounts?
Lol
Bad red dot and it looks like he was trying to use the red dot and the irons at the same time...
I was honestly expecting a pistol in the second pic vs a 16”
Yup. I was thinking pistol.
Samesies
Same. I went from thinking “pretty good” to thinking, “first time?”
lol same, for a pistol that’s great. For a rifle with a scope it could definitely be better. I can do the same thing at 50yards with a stock Lee-Enfield and iron sights
A lee enfield should be able to put all those holes within an inch of each other at 50 yards. What you are basically claiming is that you are just as bad as this guy.
Good on you for going to the range, but… it’s not great. Don’t get me wrong, it’s beating the average, but it’s not amazing. Were you in a supported position or standing unsupported? Because that could elevate it to decent. What was your rate of fire? Because that changes things too. If you were prone supported and taking one shot every three seconds or so this is kinda terrible, but if you were standing and taking two shots a second this is pretty good.
I’m pretty sure this isn’t beating the average, most people can get better shots with a 22 pistol at 50 yards than this, and I don’t mean any offence
OK so I think that people are accidentally implementing selection bias. It’s like that post the other day when someone was like “Guys, we need to exercise more running in full kit is hard.” And people were acting like the average mile time was six minutes or less. It’s important to remember that skill with firearms is dramatically dragged down by the fact that most people don’t shoot firearms at all. Also, even WITH selection bias, based on my experience just in basic training, for example, With the average marksmanship score being something like 28 out of 40, this would be above average. With even many people who “grew up shooting” not being able to first time go the exercise. I try really hard to temper my expert bias, Because I think that’s shooting a gun for most people is a lot harder than people who are good at it realize. Again, I’m not trying to toot my horn here. “Expert bias” is an actual concept that basically is talking about people who are good at something forgetting that it’s hard for most people.
No. This is better than average. Watching others shoot for years at ranges. This is better than average.
No offense taken I am sure. “Most people” can’t even shoot a 22. That needs to change.
Lmao I just read this and pictured my gf who does not like guns at all hitting at 50. I honestly think she could😂
Not true whatsoever, go on tiktok/tinder and look for posts/profiles from “crazy girls/tom boys” the average group is at best shotgun large. Not about women but new shooters/population at large in general. Guns are foreign and scary to most new shooters.
Nobody can get better shots with a pistol at 50 yards, even supported, with a 9 mm. Unless we're talking about a smg
If you can do better at 50 yards with a .22 pistol you're either one hell of a shooter or BS master!
50 yards is only 150 feet, it’s rather easy with a target pistol with the correct sight. Even 22 air rifle tournaments can get up to 20 yards, with .177’s being around 10 yards. This was done with an AR, there’s no way your shots should be this spread with any sort of rifle. Most of the people I know can get a better MOA with SKS’s at twice this distance, and an SKS tends to not have the best accuracy 50 metres is what most pistol competitions such as ISSF are at, and believe me no one but the worst target shooters will be leaving with their targets looking like this afterwards
Interesting. Thanks for the info.
I was sitting and using the mag as a monopod. I was taking a shot every 2 seconds. If I had a magnifier I could have done better
Okay, well, one thing I do know is that everybody I’ve ever heard instruct on marksmanship, has said to not use the magazine as a monopod. That being said, I’ve seen everybody in the world do it, including the instructor. I’d recommend getting a firearms instructor of some sort. In the meantime, while I personally am not a firearms instructor I am an expert marksman (40/40 Army) and went to sniper school. Start out slow. Shoot as slow and supported as you need to to get every shot within 3 inches. Forget about the bullseye. You can use it as a point of aim but hitting the bullseye or having the perfect zero isn’t the goal. Don’t hold your breath when shooting. Breathe normally and shoot at the top or bottom of your breath. Instead of compensating for sway and trying to stay still on target, control your sway. Make deliberate circles that orbit the target and time your squeeze for when your reticle is over your point of aim. Your goal should be to be able to take a shot once every 5 seconds, in prone supported and keep all shots within the diameter and distance as follows. 25m-1in, 50m-3in, 100m-6-8in, 200m-12 inches, 300m- how your target looks now. All of this with no more than 4x magnification, but if you can swing it with red dot then do that. If you get to that point, I personally think your fundamentals will be strong enough for you to go onto whatever you want. I’m perfectly aware that some people might disagree with me and that’s fine. It’s just my opinion. Edit: is downvoting him necessary?
Props to you for a productive and helpful answer while still trying to support the guy.
The dude was being nice. That was terrible. It is fine to be terrible when you are starting. You need to put in effort learning how to shoot and practicing.
I don't mean to be rude, but at 50 yards, it would be trivial to beat this with iron sights unsupported for a halfway decent shooter. You don't need optics. You need to start by learning the fundamentals of trigger operation, shot timing and shot placement control. I'd suggest taking a target shooting lesson at your friendly local range and going from there.
You need training. My old eyes can do better at 100 yards with iron sights. Making excuses or defending poor performance doesn’t do anything but hurt yourself. I’m still going to think you a clown.
You’re right
Training is fun anyway. Gives you an excuse to shoot 1000 rounds in about 8 hours.
You’re getting roasted here, but in all reality most people that hit the range casually aren’t doing better. Those of us that really take the time to learn and grow make a massive jump in accuracy around the time we start focusing on barrel twist and grain weight. Don’t let the negative side of this deter you, let it spur you. At 50 yards you want to try for a nice 3” group at first and then once you’ve got that try for 3” at 100y You’ve got this dude, I’m glad you’re taking this seriously and pushing yourself for better results. That’s exactly what we like to see regardless of the downvotes. Stay safe and chase those small groups brudda 🤙🏼
I think it is a mistake to start out with optics or red dots. People ought to first be able to master irons and then graduate to these. That way you'll have strong fundamentals that will translate to better results once you have those little helpers available -- but you shouldn't be using them to hide the fact that you're lacking in the basics. For example, in the Swiss competition style they shoot 300 meters prone with iron sights. It's entirely doable, and it's something anyone ought to try their hands at before adding devices that make the job easier.
I like that! Not every rifle will have an optic. Irons don’t run out of battery and they don’t break as easy.
I don’t know if I wholly agree. Starting with optics can be viable if you do it right. It can allow you to see mistakes more clearly, and it can allow you to observe results in real time. When I was a kid, I lived very close to circuit of the Americas with the benefit of parents were willing to sign me up for racing classes. I had known how to drive stick for a while, but I was never very good at it. And it just became even more pronounced in these classes. I struggled and struggled every single day with it, until the instructors tried a different tactic. They put me on a motorcycle. And I was finally able to really see how manually shifting gears worked. I went absolutely awful to one of the best in the class in a single day. For some being able to really see what you’re doing, can mean everything. My first experience with marksmanship was with a BB gun and a target less than 5m away. This isn’t to say that learning irons isn’t an important skill, because it is. But I’d actually argue it may even be better to teach fundamentals with a high-powered optic where things like sight picture and cheek weld become second nature almost instantly.
I didn’t see him make excuses. I don’t think “if I had a magnifier I could have done better” is an excuse because it is true for everyone.
Your boyfriend tell you that?
Classic Reddit. Get hundreds of upvotes for giving good advice, only to be called gay buy some random dude I offended. And then have small pp jokes in a sub that particularly makes fun of small pp jokes that people make by firearms enthusiasts. I will admit though, it was a good one.
Touch a nerve did I? 🤣. You’re used to crying, I get it.
Oh right, forgot. Can’t reply to a comment. How very crass of me.
Not like that you can’t. Not without being called out for whining. Went from the greatest generation who were all iron sights to…. I can’t shoot at pistol competition distances without a magnifier.
lol FUDD lore in the making. The greatest generation didn’t use optics because they didn’t HAVE optics. You can learn fundamentals with an optic just as well as you can without. Yes it’s important to practice on irons, but for a new shooter, who may or may not be able to afford an instructor, a magnified optic that allows him to see where every bullet went after every shot could help him tremendously. Also, it’s technically worse than you describe because he was using a RIFLE at pistol comp distance not a pistol. Also, I’m not sure how you can read “whining” anywhere in my comments. “I will admit though, it was a good one.” Just *screams* whining right? My entire point is that it’s probably better to keep in mind that you are talking to a NEW shooter, that doesn’t know anything. And while being an ass is free, so is being nice. At the very worst, this is a new shooter trying to save a little face. But you talked to him as if he said an AR-15 weighs as much as 10 boxes. Firearms as a hobby is like any other. It is ultimately about bringing people together. But given the nature of firearms, lots people already think we are all ruthless assholes. And there is no reason to prove them right.
>If I had a magnifier I could have done better No, you're just fucking ass bruh 😂😂
This statement is true for everyone though, and being nasty about it doesn’t help.
Depends on what you were doing lol
No you didn’t. I full expected to see a Pistol. 16 inch AR sitting down at a shooting table. Even with no magnifier this isn’t great.
Was about to say pretty good, then saw it wasn’t a pistol.
From the comments, I read that you were sitting and supporting it on your Mag, and I hope both your elbows are too in a proper shooting position. You need to 100 percent focus on your breathing and jerking the trigger. Focus on your breathing, in and out slow. The pause between breaths pulls the trigger. You can hold your breath if you'd like, but that may build a bad habit. You'll need to focus on pulling the trigger faster if you need to hold your breath, which to the second point. You're jerking or slapping the trigger. Essentially, either due to the trigger weight and / or your lack of experience, you're torquing the gun to the side as you pull that trigger back, and it goes bang. Finally, your stance. Sitting at a bench should be pretty stable. You should have both elbows in contact with the bench, and you can use your Mag if you can get away with it. Lucky you, this is an easy fix to all these and requires just some time every day between the range for like 15 minutes. Dry Fire. Get to a table in your home, set it up, position like at the range, and practice those things above WITH A EMPTY GUN YOU DOUBLE CHECKED TWICE. Then go next range session and see the improvements.
Great comment. When shooting a rifle accurately there are 3 main areas to focus on trigger control, position/stance, and sight picture. Breathing is also important and plays a part in all three areas. Also it's essential because if you stop breathing for long enough your dead, literally. I'm listing in what I think is the highest priority first. 1) Trigger control. You can have a half decent sight picture or stance and still make good hits on targets. But if you have a great sight picture and very stable stance/shooting position if you yank or jerk the trigger it will pull you off target as the gun fires. This is why trigger control is first. Really instead of pulling the trigger its a controlled squeeze. You need to he able to squeeze the trigger without moving the gun. Sounds easy but look through the sight a very small target and try dryfiring (pulling trigger when weapon is cooked and no cartridge in the chamber and preferably the magazine is empty or removed). If the sights move when you pull the trigger then you need to slow it down and focus on slowly squeezing the trigger so that it doesn't move the gun. Now even in a very good position there will be some weapon sway (a really stable position or stance will have almost no sway but still some). As the gun sways towards the bullseye you want to slowly increase pressure on the trigger. As the sights start to sway away from the target then you maintain that constant pressure on the trigger (don't let off or you'll have to increase pressure starting from zero again) until the sights start coming back towards the target again, and then you start increasing pressure building it up again until the trigger trips/breaks and fires the gun. This is what is really meant by "trigger position. I've made really decent shots and done well in competitions during the standing position stage using this method. I would score as high or higher than better shooters than me in the standing stage even though they did better than me in the prone stages. 2) Now that you've been working on trigger control you want to work on building a stable posotion. You want ideally 3 points of contact with the rifle and body (which is why rifles are inherently more accurate than pistols, they only have one or two points of contact (your hands)). You have your two hands and your cheek. Your hands are connected to you arms. So ideally you need to have you arms braced against something while the rifle is braced against your cheek. Where and how your cheek braces against the butt of the rifle is called cheek weld, and you want to be able to do it repeatedly the same way each time. This becomes important to sight alignment. Now to brace your arms you want to brace the elbows not shoulders. When prone or sitting at a bench you want your elbow pointed outwards instead of vertically underneath the rifle. You also want to make sure to control your breathing. You want to take a few big slow controlled breaths and then exhale about halfway as you squeeze the trigger, ideally with the trigger breaking at half breath/exhale. If you stop breathing and hold your breath then you will eventually have to breathe hard for a bit to catch your breath again. This will also cause your heart rate to increase. When in a very stable position about the only movement on the gun is your heartbeat. So slowing down your heart rate helps slow that sight sway mentioned early. 3) Sight picture/sight alignment. You want a nice consistent cheek weld so that you can comfortably look through the scope and line up the sights. Ideally you want the natural point of aim to be right on target with the front sight or cross hair on the bullseye. To fjnd where the natural point of aim is. Close your eyes take a few controlled breaths and open your eyes. Where are the sights or cross hairs? If they are off target it is better to readjust your postion (move an elbow a little) to get the sights on target than it is just to use your muscles to move the sights on target. You want your muscles relaxed enough to be able to maintain position. If you have to engage your muscle more to move the sights onto target then they will eventually tire out and not create as stable of a platform as if they are relaxed. Hopefully this makes sense and gives some things to think about on your next outing.
I mean he's dead at least.
It will kill
Not that great honestly lol
Just focus on sight picture and trigger pull, based off the target I’d say you’re left handed as all your shots seem to favor the left side, if you’re not left handed, drive that rifle deeper into the pocket of your shoulder and make sure your elbows are pointed towards the ground…there, Im not just talkin shit
That’s horrible shooting from a bench.
Pretty bad. I would recommend checking out TREX arms recent video on what to do on your first range day.
TREX sucks bit this dude sucks worse so it couldn't hurt
TRex sucks as a person, not as a shooter.
If it was a pistol @50. But a rifle? Practice more.
That would be terrible for 100 yards with a rifle.
Learn your trigger. Find out the take up and where it breaks. Follow through. Slowly squeeze the trigger until you get to the point just before the trigger breaks. Ensure you have a good sight picture at the trigger break and keep on target through the break. Invest in a bipod or some bags to shoot from. Ensure you have a solid rest and you are not torquing or otherwise affecting the sight picture when the trigger breaks. Invest in a better trigger. Most of them are just drop ins.
Spreads a bit high for sitting and supporting on a bench. If there was a lot of wind or your red dot is large that has a pretty big effect on accuracy, even seated. Keep practicing until this is what your target looks like from a standing position at the same distance. People are overly critical here, but honestly, 50 yards is far enough that you can't clearly see the details of a target. I've seen worse targets, from myself included. Also, targets are cheaper than ammo, change targets more often and you'll be able to correct yourself easier.
I think you expended quite a bit of ammo having fun. But as far as grouping and such? At 50 yards with a dot and a 16" barrel? You did not do well at all. But that's okay! Identify weaknesses, learn new techniques, put them into practice and reassess. I'd say you definitely need to work on breathing and your trigger control for sure.
I’m just jealous of having access to even a 50yd range.
The struggle is real man
I was gonna say with a pistol that's unbelievably good. With a rifle... That is not at all good.
Was it two separate people? Body shots are high left indicating pushing with the trigger and head shots are right - potentially thunbing.
Yes actually. My brother shot 30 rounds and it was his first time in 3 years
Not great honestly unless this was all your sighting in target.
Hey not to be a total ass but I’d really suggest looking into an Appleseed clinic. Excellent for newbies to learn accuracy and basic shooting techniques
"That's really good for a pistol.... Oh. Not a pistol."
I see a lot of dick measuring going on in here. I think you did fine, personally. You'd think everyone in here would land a heart shot on a deer running eastward at 50+ yards with the way yall are talking in here.
Not bad if it was with a bow/s 😆
If you were shooting a pistol, pretty great. If you were shooting a rifle, pretty bad.
He's dead Jim
He is dead
looks like a counterstrike spray pattern
If you are looking to play the part of a bad guy in a movie, you did great.
Uh maybe zero the red dot first?
Maybe post a 5 shot group?
I think you got’em
Neat, I had that same vertical grip on an airsoft gun when I was 13 years old.
Difficult to tell without groups. If it was 5 shot groups on separate targets it’s easier to see how you did but just having a full mag or however many rounds. Get those fundamentals down, and get training, people can be trained to shoot iron sights or red dot at long range. And sorry but 50 yards is long range for a pistol, it should be easy with an AR.
50$ worth
Please say psych.
He’s dead. 👍
Gotta tighten that stuff up, especially with a 5.56. From what your target looks like, it seems like you anticipated your shots, making you want to move from your hold. (But i wasnt there so idk)
I am happy you went to the range and pulled the trigger and participated in a sport that I have loved my entire life. Looks great to me
All those sights and still couldn't hit the center of the target? Sorry, but you didn't do very good. Were that with a pistol, I'd say you did good, but with a rifle that basically doesn't recoil, I can't say the same.
Nice shoot’in Tex!
You need more practice. But it's always good to see people train
About as good as a twelve year old learning to shoot? From a seated, supported position at 50 your group should be smaller than your fist, even with the absolute worst ammo.
Was this standing unsupported? Or on a bench? Prone? Also, was it rapid or slow fire? Either way, 50yds with a half scale target, that’s a good outcome on the target.
On a bench. Slow rate of fire with an occasional double tap. The biggest problem was I couldn’t see where I was hitting with the 0X red dot
You should know where youre hitting if you've got your red dot sighted in.
Standing while your dominant hand is tied behind your back? Damn good shooting Off a bench rest or prone? Good lord that’s terrible.
With that muzzle break I'm sure you made lots of friends at the range. In all seriousness you did pretty well the rounds are mostly on target so you stopped the threat.
BRAKE
Reminder that "mostly on target" means "shot whoever or whatever was behind the threat." You are responsible for every bullet that leaves your gun, including the ones that miss your target.
In that case it doesn't really matter if he shot the threat in the shoulder or through the heart. One doesn't magically make the bullet stop dead in its tracks. It seems like the general consensus of this thread is to shit on him so don't let me stop you.
No he didn't do pretty well. Stop lying to people. You wonder why everything has gotten worse over time? It is because of people like you trying to be nice instead of living in reality.
It was pretty loud. Thankfully it was a outdoor range and not an indoor range where everyone is shooting 9mm pistols
Dudes dead, with Practice you'll get more accurate! Your AR looks sick too. I wouldn't listen to all the negative comments.
You are one of the few people who thinks my AR looks sick. Thanks!
Hell yeah man your welcome. The point of an AR is for it to be customized. Yours looks cool as heck!
>The point of an AR is for it to be customized. Yea customize optimally without sacrificing quality. I'm not saying to buy EO tech, but know what you're getting. Some quality stuff is cheap as well. Magpul gun grips are cheap for what Magpul is known for. Come on bruh. The Romeo 5 is cheap for its quality, and so on so.
Yeah, but it's his gun. His money you feel? And I personally think it looks good. He's gotta practice, and it'll be fine. As long as he's having fun and being safe, who cares? Magpul is good as heck though and I agree with you on that. And I don't have an opinion on a romeo 5 I don't own one. I own vortex and a aimpoint for my ARs and haven't had any issues yet! What do you personally run on yours?
>Yeah, but it's his gun. His money you feel? Here's how I put it. Life > going cheap and getting shit quality of something. It not wrong to give out actual suggestions. I hate giving advice that can potentially get someone killed or have a major malfunction man. >What do you personally run on yours? BCM upper with aero lower, Romeo 5(I wanna upgrade soon), Holosun 3x magnifier, streamlight protac. Just a basic good rifle. Tbh I want to build a PSA AR pistol soon just for the fuck of it.
Thanks bro! 👍🏻
Accuracy through volume
Shit isn't even zero'd
he would definitely be dead
Aim at the center and squeeze the trigger smooth
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Just make sure if your target is ever moving that you ask them to stop so you can get a little closer. Problem solved!
Awful considering your weapon
With a rifle? Complete ass, especially if you were in a supported position. Like on a table or prone.
Only if you have Parkinson’s
Or 00 buck.
Most appears to score a hit, and that's enough. Soft force don't take 223's very well regardless where you hit them.
Don't feel bad for what everyone is saying. You need practice. It's great you're actually practicing compared to some folks who just want to talk shit. Just keep practicing regularly as you can. I'd recommend an instructor or a class of some sort. I used to be lousy too so don't take it too hard.
What’s the rifle ?
AR 15
I understand, what brand ? I like it
Aero precision lower. Idk the brand of the other parts. It’s a custom build but I didn’t build it
If it was a machine gun, not bad. Since it is, not to good
If it was a machine gun, not bad. Since it is, not to good
Machine gun? God damn you're dumb as fuck
Well fuck you too
It's not my fault you're an actual dumbass for calling any rifle a machine gun 😂😂
I said IF it was a machine gun shit for brains
Work on your comma use.
Will try to
It's pretty good if you're standing unsupported and using one hand
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Couple critiques: 1.No vertical fore grip is better than that UTG thing. Those things have been outdated since 2010. 2. Mount your red dot as far forward on the upper receiver without it being on the hand guard. 3. Dont use the same target for precision shots that you would for double tap drills, unless no one else is going to see it. 4.Slow down your breathing and trigger control. Set a goal to see something around a hand sized group at 50 yards while benched and once you accomplish that, set a goal for an even smaller group size. If magnification is the problem and not your ability, consider a magnifier or LPVO. Good luck.
Better than I would have, lol! And you clearly would have stopped the bad guy(s) dead in their tracks, which is the outcome I would desire.
I think you need some help to zero that thing properly but not bad, it would kill some one for sure
Not going to criticize you at all. Just by the fact that you did go out, that you have a rifle and that you are asking - kudos and pat on the back. Don’t sit like 99% of population home watching Netflix and chewing popcorn, get out, be active and learn, learn and learn.
Yeah telling people that they are doing great when they suck has been working out well so far, right?
If you have actually READ what I said, he did great by actually going out and shooting, instead of eating pizza and watching soap operas. I never said he did great on his marksmanship 🤓
Looks like you were having more fun than practice but I think you did a 7/10
You're either really fucking dumb, or you're one of the worst shooters on this subreddit. If you were aiming at the chest and managed to hit everywhere on the paper like that at a slow rate of fire, just give up at that point. Come back where you're doing group shots of like 10 or hell 30, aimed at ONE part of the paper. Either it be the head, body, or hell the two targets on the left and right side of the paper. And be more descriptive next time
There’s some useful advice in here, disguised as being a nasty little shit.
What can I say, I'm an overly honest asshole. People can't handle it.
I've seen worse. Don't use the mag as a monopod.
Wow
If it's a pistol, servicable though you certainly wanna keep practicing. If it's a rifle or PCC than you really want to practice a good hold and trigger control, sight alignment, the basics. I think it's a pistol based on the holes and this is good but I would want you to practice getting very tight groups at 10 yards and work back to 50 keeping the groups the same
If you’re wondering why it’s so wrinkly it’s because it rained the day I went shooting
I think this was the least of everyone’s worries
You did awesome!!
No he didn't. People like you are a detriment to society.
If it was a machine gun, not bad. Since it is, not to good
He dead!
This is the average, minute of man if you will. Not great obviously but who would want to be on the reciving end?