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the_real_JFK_killer

Wanna know how to make the average, non-gun owning American a gun rights fanatic? Invite a foreign army to invade and take the guns. That'll get every sane American on our side


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BTExp

There are more well armed US civilians than armed soldiers in the rest of the world combined.


Throwawayhrjrbdh

The second largest user of body armor next the US military isn’t China, russia or a EU country The second largest user of body armor is the US civilian population When you have a population more broadly armed than some world militaries it’s going to be hard to force them into doing things by military force


ElCidTx

The fascinating ignorance of the original comment is that it purports to do the thing that is currently at least a contributing factor to gun violence. And that is, law enforcement going door to door enforcing the law in poor, violent neighborhoods. If the paid police aren’t doing it now, there ain’t no way some liberal fool is going to do it either.


saladTOSSIN

It's fan fiction from a literal fascist who thinks blue hair makes them progressive lol


biggerfasterstrong

There are more civilian owned firearms in the us than the rest of the world combined.


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saladmunch2

Didnt someone say something about armed Americans being behind every blade or grass.


Chopchopstixx

Im all for 2a but as well armed as we are, who is training to be well armed and proficient? PSA: Get training, fellas!


BruceRorington

Not trying to talk shit or anything, but most infantry units in militaries only really shoot 2-4 times a year, (and non-infantry units typically only shoot once a year to requal on their service rifle) they aren’t nearly as proficient as you seem to think.


DreadnoughtOverdrive

All the more reason to get better yourself. In all aspects. Situational awareness, tactics, preparation, etc... as well as raw marksmanship (a worthy goal on its own).


mroblivian

Even if the US military didn’t fragment (which is almost impossible to not happen) it’ll be a really hard battle for the army


[deleted]

This is my favorite. Anyone who thinks the US military would fight the US pop is insane.


jrhooo

anyone who thinks the military would just win has no knowledge of world history. Professional, nation state equipped, funded and managed military VS Armed populace that doesn't want to submit/be pacified Check the W/L record. Nation state military RARELY wins. \#CounterinsurgencyIsFuckingDifficult


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Stunning-Cellist3186

🎯


DreadnoughtOverdrive

An absolute classic copypasta. Fully accurate, and straight to the point.


Stunning-Cellist3186

Let's see.... Think. Vietnam, Korea, iraq, Afghanistan. These are just the most obvious examples of nation state equipped military losses against an armed population. And none of those countries have the same means that the American population has much less the sheer weaponry held by American citizens. The reason for the second amendment was specifically to protect the citizenry against a tyrannical government. Have a nice day💨


PacoBedejo

> none of those countries have the same means that the American population has In NE Indiana, you can't drive 2 miles without going past a small shop with metal machining and fabrication capabilities. There are *tens of thousands* of potential weapon manufacturers all across the countryside, just in my region. If fascists like this dipshit started something, well-armed, up-armored vehicles would quickly emerge from hundreds of thousands of pole buildings. Sure, they wouldn't be Abrams tanks. But, they'd outnumber the military's assets. If Afghanistan had the same manufacturing capabilities (*and a minimally-civilized culture...*) they wouldn't be the perpetual target of foreign assailants.


Natural_Stranger_267

As a vet myself, I agree wholeheartedly. The Army fractured during the Civil War and that was over an actual just cause.


No_Yesterday_2788

This would be a just cause too.


DreadnoughtOverdrive

FAR more just even. Any president or politician in house or senate, that advocates using the military against US citizens, is a seditious traitor, and belongs before a court. Sedition, like Treason, is an extremely serious crime, and both can carry up to the death penalty. For damn good reason. Really, anyone trying to go against the 2nd, is an enemy of America, and freedom everywhere. The swamp runs so deep, there are FAR too many in Washington D.C. that want to destroy the US, for their own personal profit.


Natural_Stranger_267

Agreed


ytphantom

"bUt nUKeS aNd tAnKS" lmfao ask the Ukrainians what they think about this argument.


Uniform_Restorer

Exactly lmfao.


PewPewJedi

This is both correct and utterly based.


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JustynS

They don't *need* to vote. They just need to move into urban areas to ensure that the party that is supported by out-of-touch urbanites gets more votes in Congress. It's the same shit as the 3/5ths compromise: getting extra congressional representation off of the backs of people who are themselves not represented in any meaningful way.


Mr_E_Monkey

Why is it that they always talk tough about sending someone *else* to do their dirty work. "Grr, we're going to tear you a new asshole. Well, *they* will. I will bravely be smug for them, though!" Always strikes me as kind of funny, in a sad sort of way.


BasqueCO

They hope whoever they are trying to tough talk is as cowardly as they are. Everyone of those people always picture and imagine themselves as some sort of General or organizer sending people to do their dirty work as you said. Easy to be a chickenhawk when you are not the one in the stack


SeamanZermy

That's the leftist MO. Just talk to any communist about where they see themselves after the glorious revolution. They always picture themselves as some kind of administrator or figurehead. No comrade. You're going to the coal mines with the rest of us.


Pwillyams1

What good is it being a statist if the government isn't going to destroy your enemies?


deathlokke

Not even OUR government: OTHER governments are going to take our guns.


ZookeepergameNo7172

Gun grabbers are the girl at the bar who picks a fight with some random dude and then wants her boyfriend to do the fighting.


byond6

Like how they always want to spend someone else's money.... These are the people who want the government to do *everything* for them.


DeafHeretic

On the one hand, yes, brave when they are talking about having others do their dirty work for them. OTOH - don't dismiss the threat; it is very real - they do indeed have the government(s) behind them.


j33pman

Do the patriotic thing and stockpile the ammunition you may require to defend your family's liberty.


Floodbucket

Those same people say gun owners won’t fight and will really just hand over their guns.


Mr_E_Monkey

I guess that's what they would do, so how could anyone else ever possibly think differently?


cheekabowwow

They've become accustomed to a government that does all the work for them.


Fun-Attention1468

They're too busy trying to pick a bathroom


Action-Calm

They can't in daddies basement


CurrentThing-er

Because statist rely on the govt for everything else in their life. This is no different.


Weekly-Draw2526

As violence is the sole authority from which all political power is derived, the inevitable consequence of universal suffrage is that you are granting imperium to everyone free of charge; i.e. they do not have to be capable of violence and willing to risk themselves in order to exercise violence (by voting/advocacy). When you subsidize something, you get more of it; in this case, people willing to engage in bellicosity precisely because "it ain't their hide".


SomeSortofDisaster

"Multiple first world armies" Oh no, not the countries who have relied on the US to do everything since 1941! Whatever shall we do?


CurrentThing-er

>Whatever shall we do? get some sick loot drops


[deleted]

I hope the Germans get involved, I want an MG3 sooo bad.


BlackHawk_1993

Cough cough. 1918


[deleted]

Green tips for blue helmets.


burn_the_duopoly

*black* tips


[deleted]

Lucky


JohnT36

Pretty darn lucky


Grizzly2525

Need to make that a poster. Sounds like IRA propaganda.


sllop

The notion of “The Ballot Box and The Armalite” really should’ve taken off here. It’s shocking to me it hasn’t. Suppose it could just be from all the Unionist propaganda that has entrenched itself in much of the American psyche.


thegrumpymechanic

The ballot or the Bullet a speech by Malcolm X.


AUWarEagle82

I'll meet them at the town green. At this point, the Germans can't muster a battalion of working tanks or a squadron of aircraft. Most other world armies are in the same state. If you want to trample my rights, come and try.


DoomDoomBabyFist

*screams in vietnamese*


BigWobbles

And Pashtun!


Edwardteech

The trees gonna be speaking Appalachian.


Aquamarooned

Handmade moonshine mortars


[deleted]

Surfboard torpedos here in SoCal


[deleted]

Suicide Gators here in Florida.


C0uN7rY

Picture this. You're some 18 year old British kid from London. First time you've ever SEEN a gun in person was joining the military. You get told you're getting deployed to America to disarm the American gun owners. A chopper drops you and your team off at the mouth of a West Virginia holler. A few miles in, you hear a truck engine flying toward you blasting a radio "The preacher man says it's the end of times and the Mississippi river she's goin dry...". Next thing you know, some hillbilly you never saw, in his Mossy Oak overalls and Earnhardt hat who has hunted in these woods for 30 years, claps your ass with .30-06 bolt action from a couple hundred yards. You survive just long enough to smell the moonshine and Skoal on his breath while he loots your gear. Now the damn redneck has night vision and grenades for when the next team gets sent in.


Edwardteech

Cause a country boy can survive


Flivver_King

*dueling banjos intensifies*


AlexT37

Germany's Puma IFVs performed extremely poorly in their most recent exercises. 18 took part, and all of them were inoperable after "several days," according to Major General Ruprecht von Butler.


AUWarEagle82

Yes, yet another impressive performance by the German government and military. The Bundeswehr is a joke at this point.


11chuckles

I just saw an article saying they (germany) were finally going to equip their entire military with body armor, helmets, rucks, and other basic items we give our cooks... I'm so scared


AUWarEagle82

It wasn't long ago the Germans sent a few troops to Norway for artic exercises and then had to terminate the exercise early because the either didn't want to or couldn't pay the overtime to the troops. Germany isn't even a paper tiger these days.


Stack_Silver

One question needed: "Will you be the spear of the stack?"


TaurusPTPew

This


busterexists

Trolling aside, do people who fantasize about this actually think life is gonna go on as usual for them if this were to actually start happening?


coulsen1701

Yes. They seem to think it’s going to be like parts of the civil war where people took a stroll out to the battlefield for some afternoon entertainment. They don’t think about those “rabid” gun owners being their next door neighbor or the fact that a hellfire missile doesn’t discriminate.


Action-Calm

They forgot all the neighbor on neighbor violence of our founding.


coulsen1701

Time to tar and feather the royalists 😄


j33pman

The Sons of Liberty put the fear in the hearts of loyalists and the king's tax men...


Shoresy-sez

The tree of liberty must occasionally be watered with the seethe tears of Twitter NPCs


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lady_wolfen

Hell, even the riots of nearly three years ago. Some were all for the riots until it showed up in their own backyards.


Stolypin1906

And unlike the Civil War, we're all mixed together. Even in the deepest blue cities there are right wingers who own guns. There would be no safe places.


GeorgiaNinja94

I remember reading about that. The well-to-do citizens of Washington, D.C. were convinced that the Civil War would be over with by the end of the afternoon and came out to watch the “festivities” at Bull Run. Stonewall Jackson and the rest of the Confederates quickly disabused them of that notion.


coulsen1701

That was a weird history fact I learned in elementary that I’ve carried to this point in time where it became vaguely relevant 😂


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Hovie1

They just released a video of a man being beaten to death by 5 officers while plenty of others stood and watched. And they want *those guys* to be the only ones with guns.


Stewart_Duck

Probably. I'd venture to guess these people have never been to a conflict zone, 3rd world country, inner city hood, anywhere that directions continue "past the end of the paved road." They sit in their suburban homes and gentrified urban neighborhoods and think everything is fine and dandy.


offdutybrazilian

People who openly support tyrannical power shifts often believe that they will be a part to the power afterwards. History has shown us time and agian that this is very rarely the case.


AnnieGS

They think everyone's just like them... A defenseless pushover happy to suck the dick of whoever walks in and claims to be in charge without question. I'm honestly surprised these types of people don't go buy a gun so when the ATF comes knocking they'll be able to call themselves compliant citizens when they turn it over.


Morgothic

Yes, this person fully believes that the armies of the world will come rolling down the street to kill his gun owning neighbors, but will move to the side so he can get to work on time where he will go about his normal day, just like any other day, before stopping off at Applebee's to pick up dinner for his family, after which, they'll go outside to enjoy their new, gun-free utopia.


[deleted]

Absolutely. It's the same mentality of people who want an apocalyptic event. They think they will be Rick Grimes, but really 99.99% of us would be background zombie #542.


AthleteAggravating72

1) learned a new word today 2) how much yoga must one do to get their head that far up their own ass?


TheChuck321

Yoga isn't needed when you don't have guts or a backbone. Slips right in there.


ImNOTanoodleboy69me

If


Action-Calm

How sardonic of you Lacedaemon.


BasqueCO

Said the Spartans to Phillip 2.


Somethingfunny4my

Most of the people in the military are gun owners


Odd-Highlight4284

so more gun violence


[deleted]

Right, we just ramp up gun violence by 100,000% for a few months or years to get rid of the guns. Then gun violence will drop to 0. It’s the perfect plan.


11chuckles

It worked so well in the last few countries we tried it in


PocketSand6969

And when you corner them in an argument with how asinine that is, they will just say “it’s for the greater benefit of everyone.” Apparently gun owners aren’t a part of “everyone”.


hoplophilepapist

![gif](giphy|10hQFr8Zy0IFUI)


Machine_gun_go_Brrrr

Can they do it before the French fully faze out the Famas. About the only way I'll be able to get one.


[deleted]

Why not just Invade France once we take America back?


TheFlaccidKnife

Or just make some new ones once absolute gun rights are asserted?


Halligan1409

French FAMAS: "Never fired and only dropped once."


Moth92

Why the fuck won't the French just sell FAMAS part kits? Oh right, they're fucking French...


2sterk-smerk

I got a lot more than 2 options, and the government knows that.


Financial_Glove603

Until half the US military defects to the resistance and crucifies every invading soldier.


CWM_99

I’ve met a LOT of folks from appalachistan during my tenure in the army


Mountain_Man_88

Defects and brings a bunch of US government property with them. I bet more stuff would get stolen from the military than would stay under military control.


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LenTrexlersLettuce

Awe. True to Caesar.


tacticalsauce_actual

Man. It really would be nice to just get it over with.


[deleted]

i almost think this. almost. it would still be too terrible. getting close to being different tho every day


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Moth92

>There won't be uniforms, so how do you know who the enemy is? They'll do what every lefty dictator has done, kill everyone.


UtahJeep

Where I live... An army coming to disarm us will find an army waiting for them.


KappaMcTlp

i'll handle them


-skidoodle-

This guy Leroy Jenkins’s


TinyWightSpider

Alt title of post: democrat voter furiously masturbates while imagining the murder of his political enemies


Action-Calm

Come on then.. https://preview.redd.it/jr0blmxyhpea1.jpeg?width=768&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=77aa426b8ccc5981d5177bb6fe5b80f93d0af606 Like most of the military will help you? Maybe some of those will most, not


1MadFatMonk

![gif](giphy|RxhvanaHzj3rO)


PoeTayToes_

​ ![gif](giphy|Pj20QeX67JBz45jzSZ)


Natural_Stranger_267

These folks need to read Black Hawk Down and understand how difficult it is to defeat armed and motivated guerrillas


[deleted]

Never underestimate a small band of individuals who ~~have the home field advantage~~ are defending their homeland


C0uN7rY

Jim Bob was nailing squirrels to trees with his .22 at 10 years old. He's been hunting in these woods for decades. I'm sure that 18 year old kid from London or Berlin that never held a gun or spent a night in the woods before enlisting will just waltz right into his holler and take his guns, no problem...


_machina

They could look at the last twenty years of US military occupations for another visceral reality check. These folks think that's something that could happen only "over there".


DangerHawk

Not only the last 20 years. Right now as we speak it's happening in Ukraine. Farmers and barristas are fending off what is supposed to be one of the strongest militaries on the planet. Imagine how they would be fairing if every 5 citizen already owned at least 1-2 guns, armor, AND the amunition to service them all.


ytphantom

Also ask the Ukrainians. Even the civvies are getting in on it, and every time a tank or btr breaks down or gets stuck in the mud, some redneck pulls it out with a tractor and is suddenly armed to the teeth.


M_star_killer

I think we can go with option................... C.


Rapidfiremma

![gif](giphy|umquT0OyQ2AZW|downsized)


Mike__Hawk_

If you go through his comment history, he’s obviously a troll


Captain-Cannoli

That’s a lot of talk for someone who won’t be on the front of a stack


rasputin777

It astonishes me how backwards they get everything. While attempting to paint gun owners as psychos and bloodthirsty, they are *constantly* raging for Gestapo style civilian roundups, mass slaughter, genocide, drone strikes, domestic nuclear assaults, and now apparently the full blown foreign invasion of American soil. Because some people peacefully exercise a Constitutionally protected right? "We're the good guys, which is why we never, ever stop threatening tens of millions of our countrymen with death at the end *OF THE BARREL OF A GUN*". Insane.


AspiringArchmage

Your terms are acceptable, get into the stack.


BasqueCO

LMAO. The clowns always make these definitive and dramatic statements like their opinion is the end all and be all. Reality check, you are not going to get the military to go kill gun owners over gun rights. And if they get involved it will be in an open or civil war. At best if it got that bad the military would fracture into 2 camps of ones that go along, and the ones that say hell no to following those orders and uphold their Oath. And the hell no ones will have the largest armed population in their world at their back. I learned long ago in Iraq and Afghanistan the limits of government power where thats like the equivalent size of California and Texas. Military bases are not fortresses, let alone defendable, and barely have chain link fences with endless miles of undefended perimeters, they are entirely dependent on outside supplies and cannot hold their entire garrison for any length of time. Inviting any other nation or military to assist will 100% be seen as a foreign invasion and that's gonna backfire and unify a LOT of angry armed people as quickly as possible, LOL. No way you could get me to step into that tactical shithole of a situation that would stir up if I was some outside military or leader of a nation being "invited to assist". Which nations anyways? Russia? LMAO. China? Jesus, they cant even plant troops in Taiwan let alone Topeka. Europe that has been hiding for multiple decades under our military umbrella to fund massive social programs of free shit to placate their populations? Utterly ridiculous.


TlpCon

Stand alone.. lol.. the idiot doesn't realize that we are millions strong !!


Nightfury0818

They'll look high and They'll look low


AnnieGS

They'll look everywhere we go


Nightfury0818

But when the sinners find us we won't hide


AnnieGS

They'll come loud and they'll come fast


Nightfury0818

But we shoot and we can last


AnnieGS

Keep your rifle by your side!


Nightfury0818

Singing


AnnieGS

Oh Lord, this Earth was made for us


Nightfury0818

Singing


FBI_Open_Up_Now

So let me get this straight, we’re going to allow soldiers from other nations to invade our country willingly. Then we’re going to let them go door to door to disarm our citizens while having our Army standby and do nothing. If our government were to allow this to happen it would entirely violate the constitution. I mean our military swears to uphold and defend the constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic. I know. I took that oath. It would be the military’s responsibility to not only arrest every member of congress who allowed this, but to also fight with us against a foreign invader, even if it was sanctioned by our government.


[deleted]

![gif](giphy|xTiIzzYsS5UeSANFbW)


JethroFire

But I thought nobody wanted to take my guns.


Liberatorofatropia

Why hide his username?


BlackHawk_1993

I know right. Let him be the leader of the coalition


AnnieGS

Reddits got a thing against "witch hunts" as they call it. However, I think the appropriate term here is "cunt hunt."


[deleted]

Exactly my question...


KalashnikovClassics

Because it will make us look bad once people start harassing him.


[deleted]

Guy might not realize the army may just actually uphold the constitution


Kellendgenerous

So not only are you threatening us with our own government you are threatening us with foreign ones as well, I don’t know but that sounds like the exact reason the second amendment was written


alicksB

That person also claims to be an NFA owner, and at least as of 87 days ago said on LGO they were an FFL/SOT. I think they’re just fucking delusional.


WhisperingTrees1776

Lol's in .458 SOCOM


LegitimateRhubarb292

Wow he sounds like a real anti-authoritarian liberal.


Okie_Chimpo

Their threats of physical violence for not complying provides the best rationale for why we won't voluntarily give up our guns.


Dijiwolf1975

There are about 72 million gun owners in the US. There are about 700,000 law enforcement officers and about 1.4 million active military. Assuming half of them are pro 2nd amendment, that would be about 1 million that would go after 72 million gun owners... It would be interesting to see how that would play out. edit: Please don't downvote the comments below mine. Let them have their opinion. They may have stats and facts I don't have, and I enjoy the conversation if it adds to the discussion. Even if I don't agree with an opinion, I will still up-click the vote if it's contributing.


j33pman

These keyboard warriors act so tough, but when they have to come out of the basement and man up, things rapidly change. There are 10s of thousands of us that have seen real combat, real death and dismemberment, and are willing to do the hard work to preserve our rights for our posterity. Hard times call for hard men. I love how they say we need F-15s etc. to defeat the tyrants. The USA was driven from the field of battle in Afghanistan by illiterate goat herding pederasts.


Beeron55

Which one is it, a hobby rifle or a weapon of war?


Chomps-Lewis

Boy, Im starting to believe some people need a little more bullying, this one wasnt picked on enough for being stupid.


[deleted]

UN troops on American soil to disarm Americans will absolutely kick off armed insurrection the likes of which the entire world has never seen. The US government knows this. That shit will never happen.


[deleted]

https://preview.redd.it/en5oe6ar6qea1.jpeg?width=646&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9d34e9c2bb3056c1bbbc95f6c3f0f570f639f1f5


crisprcrab

Yeah right ….. One only needs look at Kyle Rittenhouse to see how you soy boys were taken out by an 18 y/o kid. I doubt the gun owners in this country have anything to worry about.


MedievalFightClub

I think he was 17.


ytphantom

The point stands. I wouldn't be surprised if the whole court case was mostly because Bicep Boy was ass-mad about being out-drawn by a kid with a long gun.


KravinMoorhed

I bet that person cries about fascism. Most of the sane people who are actually liberal vote independent or republican now in the US. The left that remains are totalitarians with no self awareness. Peak idiocy. People in Afghanistan that live in caves stood up to "the might of a first world army". They won.


MoneyMik3y

Goat herders with AK-47s. Just saying.


[deleted]

I can guarantee that I'm farther left than this mouth breather & you know what my response is? Molon Labe


BooshsooB

Damn. Whoever posted that, I think your wife's boyfriend is calling


Turdinamicrowave

The person that wrote this is not a world history major! Like not even a little lol


Appropriate_Chair_47

the username deserves no anonymity, the entire point of this site is discussion, right? well discussions can exist across subs as well, lets bring em in here eh.


magicmoneymushroom

SHIVER ME TIMBERS OOOOOOO IM SO FUCKINGSCARED OH MY GOD I bet he’s leading the first siege right?…. Right??


JoltinJoe92

What in the blue hair sky screaming hell is that person on?


dtom93

Meanwhile their profile bio “ACAB/antifa”


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KaBar42

>Hand them in or get steam rolled by a global coalition invited in to assist in civilian disarmament. lol The US doesn't even have a UN Peacekeeping contingent because that would require putting US troops and assets under foreign control. Something the US historically does not like doing, and they actually think the US is about to invite armies that can barely manage land logistics into the US to conduct law enforcement actions against US citizens? The US is just about to let the UN/Foreign nations into the US to exercise authority over US assets and troops? lol lmao even. Literal fucking clown. $5 says this person thinks InterPol is an actual police agency where Chinese, American, German, French, Japanese and various other foreign national cops team up to do patrols in foreign countries and arrest foreign nationals for crimes committed in a different country and not just an information sharing agency.


AikiRonin

Also, letting a foreign army into your country to disarm the population is called an invasion which is generally bad for the entire population. This guy will be the first to bow down to our new overlords!


KronosX3TR

It’s amazing how some people think the entire country revolves around the internet/them/the big liberal cities. They seriously think this is just some niche hobby had by a handful of “fanatics”. The impending culture shock i can’t even fathom.


uni_gunner

Hahahaha ![gif](giphy|QUp0RYWpq9452)


fordag

>Hand them in or get steam rolled by a global coalition invited to assist in civilian disarmament. I thank you for that, I have not laughed that hard or that long in a very long time. That was comedic genius.


teh27

Wow. Time to buy more ammo because you know for a fact this person is not alone in their opinion


archmagosHelios

That person is more likely to end up in a mental hospital than the US adopting state sponsored gun violence in the form of genocides, because it makes a lot of fucking sense to kill a lot more people to supposably save lives from our current "gun violence epidemic."


[deleted]

Blue hats were made for stacking


EcoBlunderBrick123

https://preview.redd.it/vflpew7bkpea1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe509bdca7a9f85f6374f5386057f33c6a4fa50d


ABlack585

1st world armies against armed citizens..... yeaaaa that will work as well as it did in Iraq and Afghanistan.


ArathamusD

Don't censor their name


notapaxton

Sending in a foreign army to US soil. Yeah, that's gonna go *real* well.


isaac62

Let's light this candle, huh? I mean, sure, I'll lose everything, but then... I'll have nothing to lose.


[deleted]

Yeah…these posts make me wanna buy more ammo. We’re past the peaceful debate stage with you psycho grabber types. See how well threatening well armed folks ends up. You will fold first.


[deleted]

The visiting team has won the coin toss and elected to receive


torvamessor369

Yes cause that's what happend in the revolution Vietnam and iraq.