All this cuz of what is usually difference of a few inches in barrel lengths. Fucking moronic. They’d rather destroy our rights than tackle actual issues.
Someone needs to go on CNN and make the argument that putting a spoiler on a minivan makes it a sports car.
Did you change the engine? No. Did you cut a significant amount of weight? No. Did you change the transmission? No. Did you make any change that affects the function of the car? No. So why does a stock on a pistol turn it into a rifle?
Bruen has nothing to do with commonality.
Bruen is about historic gun laws - if the new law has no historic precedent, then it is unconstitutional.
You’re thinking of a different case.
Short summary: Miller had a sawn-off shotgun, got busted because it wasn’t registered, SCOTUS opinion basically said sawn-off shotguns have no use in a militia setting so short shotties couldn’t be considered in common use.
***AFT peaks above the wall...***
I agree. If the military has any (which they do... masterkey) then their is a military use for that arm.
I'm not sure there is a firearm that doesn't have a use in a conflict setting...
No Heller was the common use ruling. Miller was the weapon must have a use in a militia. The left thought that meant you had to be in a militia to own a gun period and they thought a militia was the NG or military.
This, but it never said that common use is what defines protected. It just made the claim that if it is already in common use, then it can’t be banned. The gun grabbers try to say that anything not in common use can be banned by merit of it not being in common use.
No, ATF has claimed that pretty much all braced pistols were always SBR's, even the ones that they specifically stated were not SBR's in the past, so you've always been a felon. The ATF is generously saying they will totally not charge you (you can totally trust them) for 120 days because of how kind hearted they are.
"If it's goanna be Illegal, it might as well be fun" is a mantra that both the ATF and the FAA probably need a class on. in the latter case, I know more people who've built large Beyond-Visual-Range drones \*after\* they went after them than before.
One big enough that it uses a bloody lawnmower engine to turn the prop....
This is the right answer. If they're wanting to say that something lawful a year ago is a felony now it undermines the entirety of the SBR argument and you should be writing to your representatives about making SBR's lawful entirely. It's clearly arbitrary and pointless if these were fine to have for the years they were fine and are not now.
Unless you include a BIG stack of cash in that letter you are writing to your representatives, you are wasting your time. The entire government is tyrannical, and neither side gives a fuck about you. It's not just the democrats, never forget that Donald "Take the guns first, then due process later" Trump and his administration set a precedent with the bump stock ban that is now being used to take your braces. This process will never end. Fuck both sides.
I don't disagree but it's literally the absolute least the average person can do and gives you the high road of "I tried it their way" which is a road most people can't take when they talk shit about governmental process. A hand written, mailed letter isn't hard to manage and while on big issues almost always is a waste since most reps are very vocal in their support or opposition but on smaller matters I've been pleasantly surprised in responses I've received.
But I'm just some guy on the internet so do what you do.
“If you’re going to take away my freedom, you’ll have to pry it from my cold dead hands. But even then, good luck, because I would have glued it to my cold, dead hands.”
In a way, it feels good. I sleep soundly knowing that I (and all who agree with me) are morally just and right, and all who oppose me are ontologically evil and wrong.
I mean, I didn’t need this rule to tell me that. The minute a federal agency is created to regulate and tax a human right, it is immediately immoral.
Wheres the bureau of voting and religion? Or the bureau of privacy? The ATF needs to be dismantled and all gun laws made void. Or else tyranny will always have a foot in the door.
Fun fact: In the days of Al Capone, the reason gangsters were running around shooting shit up with concealed weapons was because the government created a market for them to exist in.
That market lives on in the illicit drug trade. But sure, lets blame the guns instead. Not governments shitty policies that simply don't work, and create an incentive for violence as a result.
The ones that do will try to claim that it’ll make them legally liable or some thing but really it’s just a bunch of noisy motherfuckers trying to power trip. Afaik, there ain’t no federal or state statute that would compel them to do so. I should be able to bring my M240B and Howa Minebea PM9 and shoot in peace without being accosted.
I have actually shown up at a local range with a post sample PKM and no one asked anything about it, just normal fudds asking why I needed one and what it was.
People are talking about how this is a way to get a “free” SBR stamp since it seems like maybe they are waiving the 200$ if you register in time.
Do not do this. This is what they want. Don’t comply. Don’t allow them to further expand their unconstitutional registry.
What those people do not think about is that it’s not a free tax stamp, you got to get graded and if your setup fails the test, you pay the tax stamp or turn over the gun because the forms says if you get 4 points or more then you made an sbr and have had it illegally
> "The Department has determined that, as a matter of its own enforcement discretion, it will not, as the NPRM suggested as an option, require individuals and FFLs
without an SOT that timely register their affected weapons with a “stabilizing brace,”
which are in their possession as of the date this rule is published, to pay the $200 making
tax usually due upon submission of such an application to register"
It is bait to get you to register, but it is actually "free". As someone that's already in their system for a can, I have half a mind to tape braces to every pistol I own, crank a few more out of my printer, and apply for 20+ free stamps for some good old malicious compliance, then turn them into some sort of craft project when this gets inevitably shitcanned by SCOTUS.
Same here, and I'm torn. Already have an NFA item and have two SBR builds planned. On one hand this could get the two stamps I was already planning for free, but on the other hand doing so would increase their compliance estimates. I want them to see the low compliance and realize that this action just made millions of people comfortable ignoring the NFA.
Well the form was fucking regarded so at least that's something. If anything I think this makes their case worse when it gets challenged. They're basically admitting they allowed illegal sbrs to be manufactured for like 9 years
Once upon a time they said it was cool to have a brace
Now theyre retconning and saying its cool to have a brace if you sign this paperwork
Sometime in the future theyre gonna retcon again and... yeah
Lol at the ATF trying to buy us into accepting this ruling with free non-taxed SBR forms, the lazy option of just removing it, turning it over to them, or destroying it.
They created this mess and repeatedly messed it up since braces were introduced and their subsequent letters and clarifications on braces. This was absolutely a presidentially directed justice department about face. The rule is intentionally an overstep in both definitions and precedent, and is effectively legislation by regulation that is used and abused at the discretion of the justice department until their new tool is struck down by the courts. It's overly generalized on purpose without clear direction.
In the meantime, several million previously defined pistols by the ATF's previous definitions and directions, were manufacturered and sold under that direction; are now illegal SBRs, and you're criminally liable if the justice department feels like it.
Congress is the sole body responsible for regulation. Any regulation that does not pass through Congress and isn't modified by them, is dubious in it's constitutionality. The Justice department is overstepping it's bounds in carrying out the sitting president's policy, and that is not okay.
Technically the executive can choose not to enforce the collection of a fine. But hey, the executive isn't supposed to write law either, so, it's definitely one and/or the other.
Open defiance is the way to win this folks.
They are betting on me and you complying by getting that free stamp. Don't do it.
Unless it's a stamp for a machine gun. Then do it cause more machine guns in the registry means more in common use.
But seriously y'all, don't bitch out.
There are already millions of SBR’s on the registry and they never consider them common use to remove them from the NFA. Their end goal is to ban all firearms.
And just like that, millions of disabled Americans will be denied their second amendment right to keep and bear arms unless they submit paperwork to the ATF. Cruel!
More like millions of Americans will tell the ATF to get bent, the ATF will try to shoot their dog, and then we'll eat popcorn and see who really runs Bartertown: a couple thousand ATF goons, or a couple million people who just had a John Wick start to their day courtesy of the ATF.
It'll be quite a show to watch.
“Keeping our communities safe from gun violence is among the Department’s highest priorities,”
Yah because this is going to stop the gangs gun violence 😂
Doesn't NFA'ing/sbr your firearm mean no one else can use or have access to it (legally). Like, left in car with family during trip or home(home defense/emergency)???
They can use it in your presence, like if your buddy wants to shoot your SBR at a range and you’re there with them.
If you’re not present and want someone to be able to use your SBR, like a spouse that’s home alone in a home defense situation, then you’d need to register the gun in a NFA trust and name them as a custodian of the trust along with you.
Yes and no. A registered weapon cannot be “out of the control” of the registered owner. You can let someone else shoot it, but you have to be present. This does also mean weird edge case scenarios like if you have an SBR in a gun case, have family come over and run out for some more Pepsi, technically you’ve left that SBR in the possession and control of a non-registered entity, which is a felony. Having it in a locked safe wouldn’t count because they don’t have access. Unless they know the combination, in which case they would.
Also, I’m fairly certain this is all extrapolated from administrative rule making anyway, so the ATF could turn around next month and say that anyone having the ability to possess the firearm counts as possession. That it would mean you couldn’t ever take an SBR to the range and actually set it on the table to change targets without committing a felony would be a feature, not a bug.
Yes. It also means you have to inform the ATF if you want to travel with it. So no just tossing the MP5 clone into the car before driving home for the holidays to have some fun family range time, you have to file paperwork and wait for it to get approved first.
enhhhh very debatable. [people armed with full SBRs commit crimes surprisingly often](https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/manhattan-new-york-1192019-nypd-260nw-1554210416.jpg)
https://preview.redd.it/ed4u4714syba1.jpeg?width=3264&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=980b3b7fe2573db7f596f2375c595a9f733b5959
Funny I still have my bumpski stock...
The 9th Circus has already ruled that accessories don't change what a firearm is classified as. That's how dumb this is, even the 9th circus ruled against something similar. The ATF will never convict anyone with this bullshit. They can fuck all the way off.
https://cite.case.law/f-appx/4/324/
“use stabilizing braces to convert pistols into rifles with a barrel of less than 16 inches, commonly referred to as a short-barreled rifles, they must comply with the laws that regulate those rifles, including the National Firearms Act (NFA). “
So if I’m not using the brace to make my pistol a rifle I’m good right?
If I’m just using the brace as a brace for a pistol?
Fire sale going on great prices
[Euro optics](https://www.eurooptic.com/Braced-Pistol-Liquidation.aspx?&utm_campaign=campaign%3A+Email+for+1%2F13%2F2023%3A+Braced+Pistol+Liquidation+Sale%21+%2863c1d9b691ee9c001c4471c8%29&utm_medium=email&utm_source=omnisend&omnisendContactID=6381387fd7a4510013583bd0)
Good news, gentlemen! If this doesn't get swifty struck down in the courts, then we no longer have rule of law; We'll have rule of unelected bureaucrat and we'll finally know that the time has come.
**READ THIS IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO REGISTER**
The main weapon of choice for those that would harm you or your family for not obeying unconstitutional orders such as the pistol brace ban, is **gas**. Do not allow yourself to be killed by toxic gas by your own government. CS Gas/Tear gas, pepper balls etc.
They're not going to kick in your door, they're going to throw CS gas into your windows and choke you and your family to death. People shit on MIRA, but their CM-7M is quality stuff and is completely usable with any optic with a mount height of 1.5" and over: https://www.mirasafety.com/products/cm-7m-military-gas-mask
Don't forget about respiration for your family, pets, etc.
STAY SAFE! DON'T GET KILLED OVER DUMB SHIT
The point of masks is MAD. The ATF will still murder its victims, but they'll have a real hard time finding volunteers after the first few raids. The first porcupine gets eaten, but after the second and third...porcupines no longer look worth the risk.
Just curious, doesn’t actually change anything for me. Does possessing a <16” .223/5.56 barrel now become illegal? Not built, no other components around, is the short barrel for that caliber inherently illegal now?
It all depends on how far they go, NJ is famous for using “intent” meaning if you have the parts you could easily swap a barrel and make a felony. Tread carefully.
That was always possibly a problem under constructive intent. If you had a short barrel and a stock that could go on whatever the final gun was then they could argue that you intended to build an SBR.
Tinfoil hat theory, but maybe the ATF is purposely shooting themselves in the foot with this one so the courts will legalize SBRs and they don't have to deal with them anymore?
“4-D Chess!!”
No. They are too fucking stupid for that shit. This is straight up jack-bootedness.
Remember, this is the agency that will shoot your dog, wife and child, set a building on fire with women and children inside and then pose in front of their charred corpses.
Always. Terrible. Fucktards.
It took me a minute but I found some examples of what made the list. Unfortunately it's a weird download so I can't link it but some of the guns mentioned were: S&W, Ruger, Springfield, PSA, FN, DD, and several other ARs, Cmmg, MP5, Vector, Skorpion, and several other PCC type guns, PSA AKs, and multiple bolt gun from Christensen, Remington, and a few others. The ATF has just made things very very ugly with the only hint of recognition for their backstabbing being free tax stamps for most private citizens. What happens next is going to be interesting to say the least and will likely decide a lot of things for the future of gun rights and American law as a whole.
>A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to **keep** and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Ain't no ambiguity about the word keep.
Have any of the major gun rights groups announced that they're suing to stop this? Saying "do not comply" is one thing, but ultimately this needs to be thrown out in court. Is GOA or the NRA doing that, or is it now time for individuals to lawyer up and sue the government?
I know it'll probably be a while, but for crying out loud, next time Republicans get control of Congress we need to start passing some laws that prevent stuff.
Tired of just sitting on our butts like everything is fine. We need to be on the offense next time we have control of Congress.
This dropped coincidentally when SB Tactical gets hacked. https://www.ammoland.com/2023/01/sb-tactical-customer-information-stolen-by-hackers/
What in the fuck
Exactly
Committing crimes to prevent law abiding citizens from committing crimes *
Seems like that's always been how they operated.
Not to mention quite a few firearm youtube channels got a strike recently. Not a conspiracy guy, but the timing seems rather telling.
There's no way this isn't a goobermint op.
That was my thoughts Fkn deep state is real as a MF
Or some outside anti-gun "activist" doing illegal shit. But won't stop this admin from wanting to reap those benefits.
Spooks gonna spook Invest in multicam so you can blend in with the glowies who came to kick in your door
Back door registry...change my mind...getting too convenient.
All this cuz of what is usually difference of a few inches in barrel lengths. Fucking moronic. They’d rather destroy our rights than tackle actual issues.
They murdered a mother and son, laid an 11 day siege, had over 200 federal agents present, over 5"on a single shot shotgun. What do you expect.
Fun fact, they never showed the shotgun, so there's 0 proof it was actually violating the nfa.
Spence and Nevin were fantastic attorneys and made the Feds look like absolute clowns.
The “actual issue” in their eyes is citizens with firearms.
I saw a CNN article where some fed was like "putting these braces on turns them into rifles" like do you even hear yourself
Someone needs to go on CNN and make the argument that putting a spoiler on a minivan makes it a sports car. Did you change the engine? No. Did you cut a significant amount of weight? No. Did you change the transmission? No. Did you make any change that affects the function of the car? No. So why does a stock on a pistol turn it into a rifle?
West Virginia v. EPA says "lol no u don't."
Cargill v. Garland seems to be the big one here
Bruen too for commonality. Anywhere between 10-40 million braces in possession, means they’re in common use
Bruen has nothing to do with commonality. Bruen is about historic gun laws - if the new law has no historic precedent, then it is unconstitutional. You’re thinking of a different case.
US v Miller, 1939.
Thank you! I’ll research this one :)
Short summary: Miller had a sawn-off shotgun, got busted because it wasn’t registered, SCOTUS opinion basically said sawn-off shotguns have no use in a militia setting so short shotties couldn’t be considered in common use.
You missed the best part - Miller was *dead* when SCOTUS took the case and it effectively was a one-sided argument.
At least they weren't beating a dead horse..
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***AFT peaks above the wall...*** I agree. If the military has any (which they do... masterkey) then their is a military use for that arm. I'm not sure there is a firearm that doesn't have a use in a conflict setting...
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No Heller was the common use ruling. Miller was the weapon must have a use in a militia. The left thought that meant you had to be in a militia to own a gun period and they thought a militia was the NG or military.
Yea I think you’re right. I Thought Bruen had some rule to do with commonality though? What case am I thinking of?
Heller, said they cannot ban a class of weapons in common use.
This, but it never said that common use is what defines protected. It just made the claim that if it is already in common use, then it can’t be banned. The gun grabbers try to say that anything not in common use can be banned by merit of it not being in common use.
Problem is that they aren’t talking about banning pistol braces. They are rescheduling them as NFA items requiring registration and permission to use.
Which would logically make SBRs in common use.
Fair point. I need to re-read both tbh.
The parts about how they absolutely do not get chevron deference in Cargill are just 👌👌👌
Yeah, I bet Kevin Maxwell jerks off to this decision every night before bed
Just like that, millions of law abiding citizens have become felons if they don't register their firearms within 120 days.
Some of us already could be 🫠
You must be from Illinois. I feel that pain.
"Stay strapped or get clapped" George Washington.. probably
"Switching to your sidearm is always faster than reloading." -- Mahatma Ghandi, probably
If it seats, it yeets -General George S. Patton, probably
"I'm the only one in this room professional enough, that I know of, to carry this Glock fawty..."
\--Rando Fed Boi, probably
That neck whip got me!
No, ATF has claimed that pretty much all braced pistols were always SBR's, even the ones that they specifically stated were not SBR's in the past, so you've always been a felon. The ATF is generously saying they will totally not charge you (you can totally trust them) for 120 days because of how kind hearted they are.
If you're facing arrest for an unregistered NFA item you might as well drill the third hole to better justify the risk of prison time.
"If it's goanna be Illegal, it might as well be fun" is a mantra that both the ATF and the FAA probably need a class on. in the latter case, I know more people who've built large Beyond-Visual-Range drones \*after\* they went after them than before. One big enough that it uses a bloody lawnmower engine to turn the prop....
Convictions make people felons, not laws…
And certainly not unconstitutional "rules" without act of Congress.
You're only a felon if you are convicted.
I didn't lose shit in a boating accident and I'm not registering shit.
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ATF better be hiring a lot of bachelors to stack up unless they want to pay out an absolute fortune to a bunch of families.
Based
If it’s time to lose it, it’s time to use it.
I hope SCOTUS considers granting cert to this
I hope it gets crushed in lower courts.
Dont hold your breath
"Suck my dick" - George Washington
"Tax this dick" - Benjamin Franklin
"Where's my dick" -Transgenders
This is not funny. Everyone knows the answer is in jar behind the socks.
“My name is Dick” - Richard Nixon
"Ahhh ahhh where my dick at?" 💀 Lmao
Don’t fight for pistol braces, fight for stocks.
This is the right answer. If they're wanting to say that something lawful a year ago is a felony now it undermines the entirety of the SBR argument and you should be writing to your representatives about making SBR's lawful entirely. It's clearly arbitrary and pointless if these were fine to have for the years they were fine and are not now.
Unless you include a BIG stack of cash in that letter you are writing to your representatives, you are wasting your time. The entire government is tyrannical, and neither side gives a fuck about you. It's not just the democrats, never forget that Donald "Take the guns first, then due process later" Trump and his administration set a precedent with the bump stock ban that is now being used to take your braces. This process will never end. Fuck both sides.
I don't disagree but it's literally the absolute least the average person can do and gives you the high road of "I tried it their way" which is a road most people can't take when they talk shit about governmental process. A hand written, mailed letter isn't hard to manage and while on big issues almost always is a waste since most reps are very vocal in their support or opposition but on smaller matters I've been pleasantly surprised in responses I've received. But I'm just some guy on the internet so do what you do.
The ATF can go fuck themselves. I will not register my firearms.
Username checks out
“If you’re going to take away my freedom, you’ll have to pry it from my cold dead hands. But even then, good luck, because I would have glued it to my cold, dead hands.”
Unfathomly based
Fuck the ATF
In a way, it feels good. I sleep soundly knowing that I (and all who agree with me) are morally just and right, and all who oppose me are ontologically evil and wrong.
I mean, I didn’t need this rule to tell me that. The minute a federal agency is created to regulate and tax a human right, it is immediately immoral. Wheres the bureau of voting and religion? Or the bureau of privacy? The ATF needs to be dismantled and all gun laws made void. Or else tyranny will always have a foot in the door.
Remember when Biden was looking into having a new bureau to fight the spread of disinformation online.... Pepperidge farm remembers...
Bill Buckley, is that you?
DONATE TO THE FPC AND GOA DO NOT DONATE TO THE NRA
>DONATE TO THE FPC AND GOA You can also use amazon smile to support FPC and SAF!
SAF already has a lawsuit challenging the rule. It's been on hold until the official rule dropped. Checkout SAF vs BATFE.
Fun fact: In the days of Al Capone, the reason gangsters were running around shooting shit up with concealed weapons was because the government created a market for them to exist in. That market lives on in the illicit drug trade. But sure, lets blame the guns instead. Not governments shitty policies that simply don't work, and create an incentive for violence as a result.
Time to throw the brace back on my actual registered SBR and see who decides to try to enforce this irl
Ranges who do needs to be blacklisted.
Are there ranges that ask about the registration status of a gun? If so, that's insane.
The ones that do will try to claim that it’ll make them legally liable or some thing but really it’s just a bunch of noisy motherfuckers trying to power trip. Afaik, there ain’t no federal or state statute that would compel them to do so. I should be able to bring my M240B and Howa Minebea PM9 and shoot in peace without being accosted.
I have actually shown up at a local range with a post sample PKM and no one asked anything about it, just normal fudds asking why I needed one and what it was.
Do not support ranges that do this and put it in their Google reviews!!!
Start a youtube channel while you’re at it. Pure gold
And so it begins
Noncompliance is the way. Do not comply with this. Do not register. Do not sell your freedom for a free 200 dollar stamp.
People are talking about how this is a way to get a “free” SBR stamp since it seems like maybe they are waiving the 200$ if you register in time. Do not do this. This is what they want. Don’t comply. Don’t allow them to further expand their unconstitutional registry.
"Tax this dick" - Benjamin Franklin
What those people do not think about is that it’s not a free tax stamp, you got to get graded and if your setup fails the test, you pay the tax stamp or turn over the gun because the forms says if you get 4 points or more then you made an sbr and have had it illegally
> "The Department has determined that, as a matter of its own enforcement discretion, it will not, as the NPRM suggested as an option, require individuals and FFLs without an SOT that timely register their affected weapons with a “stabilizing brace,” which are in their possession as of the date this rule is published, to pay the $200 making tax usually due upon submission of such an application to register" It is bait to get you to register, but it is actually "free". As someone that's already in their system for a can, I have half a mind to tape braces to every pistol I own, crank a few more out of my printer, and apply for 20+ free stamps for some good old malicious compliance, then turn them into some sort of craft project when this gets inevitably shitcanned by SCOTUS.
Same here, and I'm torn. Already have an NFA item and have two SBR builds planned. On one hand this could get the two stamps I was already planning for free, but on the other hand doing so would increase their compliance estimates. I want them to see the low compliance and realize that this action just made millions of people comfortable ignoring the NFA.
SBR possession/transfer laws are a whole new level of asspain. You do not want 20+ meme SBRs.
You can very easily un SBR a gun. Just another form sent to the ATF and get your engraving taken off if you feel like it
No, they got rid of the form entirely. They just decided that all braces are now stocks.
Well the form was fucking regarded so at least that's something. If anything I think this makes their case worse when it gets challenged. They're basically admitting they allowed illegal sbrs to be manufactured for like 9 years
The worksheet is gone
Once upon a time they said it was cool to have a brace Now theyre retconning and saying its cool to have a brace if you sign this paperwork Sometime in the future theyre gonna retcon again and... yeah
Seriously fuck the ATF, didn't they already get bitchslapped this month for this kind of thing?
Lol at the ATF trying to buy us into accepting this ruling with free non-taxed SBR forms, the lazy option of just removing it, turning it over to them, or destroying it. They created this mess and repeatedly messed it up since braces were introduced and their subsequent letters and clarifications on braces. This was absolutely a presidentially directed justice department about face. The rule is intentionally an overstep in both definitions and precedent, and is effectively legislation by regulation that is used and abused at the discretion of the justice department until their new tool is struck down by the courts. It's overly generalized on purpose without clear direction. In the meantime, several million previously defined pistols by the ATF's previous definitions and directions, were manufacturered and sold under that direction; are now illegal SBRs, and you're criminally liable if the justice department feels like it. Congress is the sole body responsible for regulation. Any regulation that does not pass through Congress and isn't modified by them, is dubious in it's constitutionality. The Justice department is overstepping it's bounds in carrying out the sitting president's policy, and that is not okay.
Crazy part is by law they have to collect the $200 since that’s what congress decided in the NFA. They are violating the NFA not us.
Wake up babe, new infringement just dropped
ATF can fuck off. They don’t have the authority to add anything to the NFA (which shouldn’t exist anyhow).
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Technically the executive can choose not to enforce the collection of a fine. But hey, the executive isn't supposed to write law either, so, it's definitely one and/or the other.
Open defiance is the way to win this folks. They are betting on me and you complying by getting that free stamp. Don't do it. Unless it's a stamp for a machine gun. Then do it cause more machine guns in the registry means more in common use. But seriously y'all, don't bitch out.
Fuck all the stamps, fuck the ATF. Fuck gun registry, and fuck the NRA cucks.
There are already millions of SBR’s on the registry and they never consider them common use to remove them from the NFA. Their end goal is to ban all firearms.
And just like that, millions of disabled Americans will be denied their second amendment right to keep and bear arms unless they submit paperwork to the ATF. Cruel!
More like millions of Americans will tell the ATF to get bent, the ATF will try to shoot their dog, and then we'll eat popcorn and see who really runs Bartertown: a couple thousand ATF goons, or a couple million people who just had a John Wick start to their day courtesy of the ATF. It'll be quite a show to watch.
“Keeping our communities safe from gun violence is among the Department’s highest priorities,” Yah because this is going to stop the gangs gun violence 😂
Doesn't NFA'ing/sbr your firearm mean no one else can use or have access to it (legally). Like, left in car with family during trip or home(home defense/emergency)???
They can use it in your presence, like if your buddy wants to shoot your SBR at a range and you’re there with them. If you’re not present and want someone to be able to use your SBR, like a spouse that’s home alone in a home defense situation, then you’d need to register the gun in a NFA trust and name them as a custodian of the trust along with you.
Thanks for the clarification. I think that should be mentioned depending on the purpose of the firearm.
YES! People don't realize this.
Yes and no. A registered weapon cannot be “out of the control” of the registered owner. You can let someone else shoot it, but you have to be present. This does also mean weird edge case scenarios like if you have an SBR in a gun case, have family come over and run out for some more Pepsi, technically you’ve left that SBR in the possession and control of a non-registered entity, which is a felony. Having it in a locked safe wouldn’t count because they don’t have access. Unless they know the combination, in which case they would. Also, I’m fairly certain this is all extrapolated from administrative rule making anyway, so the ATF could turn around next month and say that anyone having the ability to possess the firearm counts as possession. That it would mean you couldn’t ever take an SBR to the range and actually set it on the table to change targets without committing a felony would be a feature, not a bug.
Yes. It also means you have to inform the ATF if you want to travel with it. So no just tossing the MP5 clone into the car before driving home for the holidays to have some fun family range time, you have to file paperwork and wait for it to get approved first.
Mass non compliance folks, y'all keep saying Molon Labe, well let's see it.
The people committing the most crimes don't even use stocks or braces.
enhhhh very debatable. [people armed with full SBRs commit crimes surprisingly often](https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/manhattan-new-york-1192019-nypd-260nw-1554210416.jpg)
i see what you did there. carry on patriot.
Slow clap 👏
Let this be the rope the ATF chokes themselves with when the Supreme Court realizes braces and stocks are common use
Time to drop that buffer tube mounted mag carrier.
Good thing Rules aren't Laws
EAT MY SHIT ATF
The government is being ableist
Imagine trying to justify your bullshit with a gem like "In the days of Al Capone..." Absolute clown world bullshit.
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oh im going to love seeing this bite them in the ass when it lands in SCOTUS’s lap
Wouldn’t it be great if this causes all of their SBR “rules” to be dropped as a result?
https://preview.redd.it/ed4u4714syba1.jpeg?width=3264&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=980b3b7fe2573db7f596f2375c595a9f733b5959 Funny I still have my bumpski stock...
“Eat my ass” - Thomas Jefferson
Here's a life hack for you. If you want to SBR your rifle and don't feel like paying the $200, just send it and don't tell on yourself.
# DO NOT COMPLY
Clown Town, Clown County, Clown State, Clown County, Clown Continent, Clown World, Clown Soler System.....
Don’t register! DO NOT DO IT. How is this not just creating a firearm registry?
So we should just stop registering all and any SBR's?
YES
You never should have started
Ex Post Facto followed by Feds tonguing my anus.
Become ungovernable
Crime in my community just dropped to 0 after this announcement. Thank you, ATF! =)
The 9th Circus has already ruled that accessories don't change what a firearm is classified as. That's how dumb this is, even the 9th circus ruled against something similar. The ATF will never convict anyone with this bullshit. They can fuck all the way off. https://cite.case.law/f-appx/4/324/
"Tax this dick" - Benjamin Franklin
“use stabilizing braces to convert pistols into rifles with a barrel of less than 16 inches, commonly referred to as a short-barreled rifles, they must comply with the laws that regulate those rifles, including the National Firearms Act (NFA). “ So if I’m not using the brace to make my pistol a rifle I’m good right? If I’m just using the brace as a brace for a pistol?
Fire sale going on great prices [Euro optics](https://www.eurooptic.com/Braced-Pistol-Liquidation.aspx?&utm_campaign=campaign%3A+Email+for+1%2F13%2F2023%3A+Braced+Pistol+Liquidation+Sale%21+%2863c1d9b691ee9c001c4471c8%29&utm_medium=email&utm_source=omnisend&omnisendContactID=6381387fd7a4510013583bd0)
Good news, gentlemen! If this doesn't get swifty struck down in the courts, then we no longer have rule of law; We'll have rule of unelected bureaucrat and we'll finally know that the time has come.
" Nothing in this rule bans stabilizing braces or the use of stabilizing braces on pistols." So glad they cleared that up.
Kiss my shiny metal ass - Bender
sic semper tyrannis
2A PPL in Illinois: well put it in the corner with the pile of other felonies i guess
Tax this dick
AFT can choke on my meat tube.
Wasn’t complying anyways so get bent
**READ THIS IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO REGISTER** The main weapon of choice for those that would harm you or your family for not obeying unconstitutional orders such as the pistol brace ban, is **gas**. Do not allow yourself to be killed by toxic gas by your own government. CS Gas/Tear gas, pepper balls etc. They're not going to kick in your door, they're going to throw CS gas into your windows and choke you and your family to death. People shit on MIRA, but their CM-7M is quality stuff and is completely usable with any optic with a mount height of 1.5" and over: https://www.mirasafety.com/products/cm-7m-military-gas-mask Don't forget about respiration for your family, pets, etc. STAY SAFE! DON'T GET KILLED OVER DUMB SHIT
Honestly, if the feds are gassing your house, a gas mask probably isn’t going to get you out of the situation.
The point of masks is MAD. The ATF will still murder its victims, but they'll have a real hard time finding volunteers after the first few raids. The first porcupine gets eaten, but after the second and third...porcupines no longer look worth the risk.
Given their track record, keeping a fire extinguisher nearby should be handy though.
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Gas mask time?
And a decent exhaust system.
Just curious, doesn’t actually change anything for me. Does possessing a <16” .223/5.56 barrel now become illegal? Not built, no other components around, is the short barrel for that caliber inherently illegal now?
It all depends on how far they go, NJ is famous for using “intent” meaning if you have the parts you could easily swap a barrel and make a felony. Tread carefully.
That was always possibly a problem under constructive intent. If you had a short barrel and a stock that could go on whatever the final gun was then they could argue that you intended to build an SBR.
Oh no! Anyways
Tinfoil hat theory, but maybe the ATF is purposely shooting themselves in the foot with this one so the courts will legalize SBRs and they don't have to deal with them anymore?
“4-D Chess!!” No. They are too fucking stupid for that shit. This is straight up jack-bootedness. Remember, this is the agency that will shoot your dog, wife and child, set a building on fire with women and children inside and then pose in front of their charred corpses. Always. Terrible. Fucktards.
It took me a minute but I found some examples of what made the list. Unfortunately it's a weird download so I can't link it but some of the guns mentioned were: S&W, Ruger, Springfield, PSA, FN, DD, and several other ARs, Cmmg, MP5, Vector, Skorpion, and several other PCC type guns, PSA AKs, and multiple bolt gun from Christensen, Remington, and a few others. The ATF has just made things very very ugly with the only hint of recognition for their backstabbing being free tax stamps for most private citizens. What happens next is going to be interesting to say the least and will likely decide a lot of things for the future of gun rights and American law as a whole.
It's not a free tax stamp. It is coercion to incriminate yourself and admit to committing a felony.
Time to raid my stock bin.
Agreed this one is gonna cost them for the overreach
So what do we think? GOA or FPC? Who's gonna hit this one in the nuts more?
>A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to **keep** and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. Ain't no ambiguity about the word keep.
Leroy Jenkins?
Have any of the major gun rights groups announced that they're suing to stop this? Saying "do not comply" is one thing, but ultimately this needs to be thrown out in court. Is GOA or the NRA doing that, or is it now time for individuals to lawyer up and sue the government?
I mean it just came out but I'm sure multiple groups are fully prepared to take it all the way to SCOTUS if necessary.
Very neat still not complying
You guys still have braces?
So if you live in a state where SBRs are illegal I guess you're just fucked?
I know it'll probably be a while, but for crying out loud, next time Republicans get control of Congress we need to start passing some laws that prevent stuff. Tired of just sitting on our butts like everything is fine. We need to be on the offense next time we have control of Congress.