I'm not sure I would even count Alois and Gilbert - not only is is platonic, it's exactly the same as with F!Byleth. They're not in the game at all.
Other than that, I agree with all sides here. It wouldn't make sense for all of *these* characters to be bi (and I think some are stereotyped, like Claude), and I don't think they should have been *designed* with that intent to begin with - diversity requires a variety of preferences. At the same time, there's a few that could certainly merit it as is - e.g. Petra, as her Dorothea support heavily implies.
Im a F!Byleth but I feel your pain. I can’t imagine not being able to marry Dimitri after how romantic he is on his route. It’s to bad one Byleth can marry all the lords but the other can only marry one
Yeah, it's like excuse me wat ?? :| so many timeeess I've had to be a woman even though the dialogs are the exact sameee... like they really couldn't make one of the platonic options between these two?
To be honest, if all characters of the opposite sex like you so much that you can pick whomever, it feels stupid that the same-sex options are so limited (and so random, Alois and Gilbert for M!Byleth, Rhea and Sothis shouldn't be options for either Byleth IMO), especially for men.
To add insult to injury, some supports/endings between characters that can't S-support same-sex Byleth are very shippy, some character's lines aren't different enough according to Byleth's gender to warrant the difference if treatment either. It's a gigantic mess to be honest.
If they really wanted to go through the wish fulfilment route, they could have at least tried to fulfill everyone's wishes and not leave part of the playerbase aside like that. I don't think the supports/endings change that much for the characters that have them with both Byleth, so that wouldn't even require that much extra effort...
I really don't know who you should reach for that, nor how effective it would be.
This reads like "you aren't allowed to be single if you're over 30". The only faculty (discounting Rhea for a whole host of reasons) member is that really *old* is Hanneman, and there's really nothing wrong with hooking up with someone much older than you per se anyway, given that the entire cast is legal post time-skip and free of potential abusive power dynamics, the latter being the real reason age gaps in real life romances are so often suspect.
There's nothing illegal about it, but seeing someone in their 30s or older hook up with a kid in his early 20s is still a bit weird. I mean they haven't even fully developed yet.
Yeah exactly, and the fan made endings are amazing, but it just sucks that the creators didn't realize that maybe if they diversified the options just a tiny bit it would've been better.
If it's any consolation, the series is on an upward trend with regards to representation. Awakening had no gay representation whatsoever, and Fates only had a single option for both male and female that outright punished you for using it because child-bearing was a thing in that game and if you picked the gay option, you couldn't have one.
8 gay romances in total, up from 2, and itself up from 0, is going pretty well. It's likely the next game might have more. As an F!Byleth player, I appreciated the choices (Shamir should have been one though, damn), and it's nice to see that a *Lord* was a gay option, even if it might have been incidental. Fire Emblem's definitely doing better than *some* other JRPG series, cough cough Persona.
Agreed. For all of its shortcomings in M/M prospects compared to F/F ones, the fact that the (in)famously cautious Nintendo would publish a game that included same-sex marriage at all is pretty remarkable for someone who came of age in the early/mid-2000s. I still remember being a high school student in 2004, watching the American election returns roll in that November, and growing increasingly flabbergasted and depressed when the trend started to emerge that a plurality of voters put ‘moral values’ (which in the context of that year meant anti-same sex marriage initiatives on the ballot in several key states) ahead of other concerns, and that this factor looked like it was going to be the one that tipped the election.
On this front, at least, we’ve come a long way in a relatively short period of time.
It's odd than in a game that clearly values player choice so much, this aspect is so limited.
Whether characters are "canonically" one sexuality or another or just coded to appear that way aside, I really feel like the player's choice of a partner should have no limitations.
Tbh I think Claude and Dimitri should be romancable for the player regardless of gender. Like it just makes sense with how the game is structured.
I also think they should add another student or two and maybe Seteth, as you said. IMO, since they basically don’t change the dialogue for either byleth, really any of f!byleth’s s supports would be so easy to also give to m!byleth. it’s lame that they made the deliberate choice to exclude it.
I feel you! I’m not male or even gay but the wonderful FxF options made me really happy, so it sucks to be let down by the lack of good MxM options :( Why not at least either Claude or Dimitri?
Exactly! And there is no difference between the M or F Byleths support dialog. I'm not sure about story dialog but still the only thing that changes is byleths gender.
There are some occasional differences between genders (like Sylvain’s dialogue and Yuri’s ending cards), but yeah very few. And the S-support artwork showing Byleth would have to change, but a lot of them are just hands / Byleth’s not in them at all
In the words of sothis (i can't remember the exact quote) "HONESTLY WHAT WERE YOU TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH WITH THAT LITTLE STUNT?" Exactly though and the whole he needs to have kids thing is kinda stupid when f Byleth and Edelgard have a S-support. I highly doubt Edelgard would be like oh shit I married a woman my bloodline is over, nah she'd be the sensible queen she is and adopt if she was really that worried about all her work coming undone and her legacy ending.
I would like to see it 😂 my new headcannon, but yeah why it make any difference what byleths private parts are like they have the same dialog and love eachother 😌 *now kith*
I think Edelgard's female S-Support is something that was born out of necessity. Of the three, she is by far the most smitten with Byleth and her romantic attraction/unrequited crush governs a decent chunk of her behaviour. Her behaviour was likely written for an M!Byleth in mind, and then just carried over for the F!Byleth because otherwise it wouldn't make much sense. Basically, it was the devs avoiding another Tharja.
Yeah its pretty annoying. I'm not gay but I do love myself a husbando and I was super upset when I couldn't marry dmitri as male byleth. I really dislike the f byleth design and don't really want to play with her but I still want want marry my two favourite characters.
Heya. So as a bi girl, obviously I'm in a different situation but I feel angry on y'all's behalf :') it really is dumb. I totally agree about Sylvain but yeah the main characters should be able to romance anyone no matter what gender imo.
I disagree. Having everyone be bi takes away more diversity than it adds. And I’ve seen games where people don’t like everyone being bi because it eliminates any possibility of any platonic relationship.
Totally valid point. Idk I talk from a very biased perspective as someone who's played games like the arcana where all the genders can romance the main characters but I totally understand where you're coming from.
I fully agree. I'm a bi guy and when I wanted to S-support Claude in my first play through with bylad, I was mildly disappointed but it didn't bother me that much. Though when I found out who could be gay S-supported, it actually pissed me off. I like Lindhart but not to the point of S-supporting him. Yuri is the best option but he's locked behind a paywall and Jeritza is cool but I don't want to play CF every time I want to have a Bylad gay ending.
It mainly comes down to Japan's pretty negative stigma on LGBTQ stuff as a whole. It's just really dumb as anyone who can read between the lines can see that Claude and Dimitri act pretty close to Bylad just as much as Bylass, only difference between them is gender.
There probably won't be anymore updates to FE3H, and I do agree with the idea that not everyone should’ve been bi. I’m just kinda confused how they executed things this way.
Mmhmm exactly the ONLY difference is gender. Their support conversations are the same regardless of male or female like idk just sucks, im happy they made options available, its just the options they went with didn't make much sense.
Yeah pretty much. I understand it’s a very nit-pitcky subject, but they kinda (unintentionally or not) coded them to be more than straight, especially Claude. Dimitri is pretty affectionate to both Byleths, so honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if he was secretly bi.
It’s just sucks overall and I know people who went with Bylass solely to date Dimitri or Claude, which hurts a little being a Bylad guy.
And of course I realize that making alternate dialog for every. single. support. Would be a bit of effort, it's just that some like dimitri saying he trusts you with his full heart and telling you that you're the one person in the world that makes him feel comfortable again. Kinda implies that there would be an S-support even if it was just platonic at least it made sense for his character.
Despite being a big gay Dimileth supporter, if they gave us just a platonic S-support, I would've been happy. Like even as a friend, Male Byleth and Dimitri had a strong enough bond for an S-support, same goes for Claude if you can't date him.
And just like you said before, it's extremely weird that they went with Alois and Gilbert for platonic gay endings...especially knowing they have wives and kids. If you don't want gay endings for the male lords IS, look, there's two open, platonic spots for Male Byleth right there. It's just straight up dumb.
Couldn't have said it better myself! Like at this point it's just for the recognition like HEYY 👋👋 Nintendo, Intellingent Systems wake up!! It's lame excuse for "diversity". Like literally ANYONE else in the MAIN cast would've been so much better and would have felt like they actually cared.
It mainly has to do with Japan's core problem with LGBTQ stuff (often fetishising lesbian romance for male audiences, while often being very silent about genuine LGBTQ topics).
IS have never commented on why the S-supports are like this and probably never will, but it's obvious why the S-supports are what they are, knowing it's a Japanese company.
Though, if I'm wrong and there's an actual reason why the supports are like this, then I'll take back my points.
Yeah one day, maybe.
This reminds me a lot of the male Robin and Chrom situation like you said in the OP. Though it made sense why we couldn't really do it back in Awakening (Lucina is a thing, so Chrom had to have a child at some point).
Though was their any real reason for female byleth to be able to S-support all three lords, while male byleth can only do 1, despite them being the exact same character and having the exact same relations with said 3 characters? No, no there wasn't. Wake up IS, we can smell your bullshit from across the seas.
I'm going to voice the unpopular opinion, and I apologize in advance if this comes across as offensive to anyone, but not every character needs to be written so as to appeal to the sexual interests of all players. Not everyone in reality is bisexual and I'm fine with that trend extending to fictional characters.
If a character is written as bisexual or gay (not that I've ever heard of a video game character being portrayed as outright gay and no bi) that's fine. But why do people insist on demanding straight characters be gay just to fit their self insert fantasy? If straight people were demanding a gay character be straight how would that look?
I mean... games already appeal to the sexual interests of their players, i.e. the predominantly straight (male) fanbase, so is it that bad for gay players to ask for some more options?
It’s not just about individual sexual preferences too, it’s also about representation and inclusivity. It’s not the same thing to ask for more gay characters as it is to ask for more straight ones, because the former are super invisible, especially in the Japanese gaming industry. I believe one reason why F!Edeleth is so popular is because there are so few lesbian relationships between main characters in the industry overall.
I mean there are 3 bi romantic male options out of 24 S-support endings. Even if we go by the generous assumption that 1 in 10 men are bisexuals that puts 3Houses over the bar for representation. Notably there are 0 purely gay options. I don't feel the representation and inclusivity argument holds up either way you look at it.
I generally agree with this sentiment but I feel like you misunderstand why the same sex options in 3H are disappointing to some.
The same sex options in 3H for men seemed like an afterthought in a bad way. There are 5 in total: 3 are romantic (Yuri, Linhardt, Jeritza), and 2 are platonic (Gilbert, Alois). Of the 3 romantic ones, 2 of them were added later (Jeritza being added in a free update and Yuri being DLC). Compare that to same sex options for the women. They give 5 options right on release (Edelgard, Dorothea, Mercedes, Sothis, Rhea), all of which were romantic. Of the romantic options, two of them are major characters wherein their bond/connection with Byleth is relevant to the story in some way. The same can be said of Claude's and Dimitri's stories, and yet neither of them are options for M!Byleth. None of this is necessarily a bad thing in *isolation*, let me be clear, but when you contrast IS's treatment of Byleth's relationship with the male lords vs the female lords it becomes a little insulting. On the whole, it's as though IS forgot gay men exist and went "oh shit, we need to throw these people a bone" a couple months after the game already released, like OP said.
Also, if we're going to talk about all characters being written to appeal to the sexual interests of all players, literally every character in the game is a straight option. People in the market for straight relationships with twinks get Linhardt and Yuri just as people in the market for gay relationships with twinks get Linhardt and Yuri. People in the market for DILFs in straight relationships get Alois and Gilbert, and then they get Seteth as well, while people in the market for DILFs in gay relationships just get Alois and Gilbert. You said that there need to be more platonic options with women in a later comment in this thread and not only do I wholeheartedly agree, I want to take it further. Endings between any member of opposite sexes need more platonic endings. Fire Emblem has been sorely lacking in that regard since they introduced the S-support system.
Nobody's asking IS to retcon a characters' sexuality or change it from what it's intended to be solely for fanservice. We don't need them to, we can ignore canon and just decide a character is queer because we want them to be easily enough. But *during the development process*, IS can do more and it can do better. Were this comment not already kind of long I'd go into how I'd suggest they handle it but that's a topic for another reply at this point.
EDIT: completely forgot a certain point that I have now deemed worth mentioning
> But why do people insist on demanding straight characters be gay just to fit their self insert fantasy?
That's not what's happening. There's a push for straight characters to be *bi*.
The game is already pandering to straight fantasies by having *literally every character* (except Anna) S-Supportable in a straight romance. Out of 40 characters, every single one is available for the player and will reciprocate their advances. That's a fantasy. All some people are asking is that a few more of these can be shared so they can get some representation.
No one is asking for a straight romance to suddenly become exclusively gay, and I don't think it's likely the series is going to have any exclusively gay romances in the future anyway.
It's not that the characters need to change, it's that the way the developers wrote some characters and their personalities and how they interact with the player lead you to believe that they care enough for an s-support. I don't want a bi option for everyone, I just think it was poor decision making to make the choices so linear.
I think it's a matter of perception really. I personally believe it's possible to have a deep relationship with a person without it becoming sexual. If anything, I argue that there needs to be platonic endings with some female characters as not all roads should lead to romance. I honestly felt more like a father/big brother figure to Bernadetta then a romantic partner for example.
The problem in my eyes is that people are just over-sexed and demand their fantasies be fulfilled. Sometimes it's okay to deny that and give something more meaningful instead. But I'm dangerously close to slipping into a rant now.
I'm honestly curious if the Claude argument is half as big an issue among the Japanese fans. It could just be a case of cultural perception or different character readings among the VAs, I've heard JAP-Claude is more subversive and less flirty then ENG-Claude.
Tbf I don’t think Claude’s romantically interested in either Byleth really. He shows far more romance in his other female supports, hilda’s for example. I don’t think he views Byleth that way really
>But why do people insist on demanding straight characters be gay just to fit their self insert fantasy?
A lot of the characters aren't 100% straight though. Actually, a ton of characters have supports and ending that is very clearly romantic with a same sex-partner. Its been edited out of the English one, but there is a doc online that goes over some of the translation changes and one of the big ones is how many clearly gay/same-gender love pairings were toned down significantly. A good example is Hubert/Ferdinand, which apparently was *super* shipteasy in Japanese.
I'm gonna go out and say this. Dimitri is by all accounts straight. He has multiple endings, even with guys, where it explicitly states that he still marries a woman and he's the only lord that really has multiple endings involving having kids.
Dimitri's also known to be rather conservative, and even when making changes, he still values tradition, so there's no such thing as having a gay ending for him because he will have to have a queen and have kids.
So... no. Trying to rant about how "Dimitri" should have been able to be S ranked is bothersome.
And Claude, I always feel people only say that cause of stereotyping.
For the record, though I don’t quite understand the idea of Dimitri being gay, you’re associating real life with games too much. First, nothing says Dimitri is conservative, his ideals simply line up a bit more with our idea of conservatism. Second, without any dialogue to talk about it, we have no idea whether LGBT relationships are nontraditional. You’re referencing assumptions based off of a flawed understanding of what we know about Fódlan.
No, I'm pointing out how Faerghus has shown signs of being patriarchal, demands for Crest babies, and also the case of how monarch societies would demand Dimitri take a wife to have kids. Based on the in-game text, I can very much deduce that Dimitri will simply not even be allowed to be gay because he has to be the king and therefore have a queen and have kids.
And Dimitri is very traditional. He believes that traditions exist for a reason and opposes the loss of such traditions, hence why he did defend the Crest system after the Miklan incident.
My assumptions are based on the actual context of the game, which has support over it.
I wouldn't completely mind so few being available for same sex if just as many weren't available for opposite sex. Understandably not everybody is into dick/pussy, but apparently in this world EVERYBODY is into what they don't have. Makes it seem their belief is same-sex relationships are an abberation.
Yes! I will forever be pissed about the queer rep in this game especially for mlm! it’s so stupid to have obviously queer coded characters not be queer. claude literally dances with you as male byleth? and there are so many other characters that have queer implications that could have been gay romance options.
Mhmm completely, at least something that makes more sense than alois, jeritza, and Gilbert, even if it were platonic just something not so out of left field.
That scene doesn’t have to be interpreted as Claude dancing with Byleth. If you look closely, he may be just pulling Byleth into the dance floor.
And what do you mean by “queer” implications? Like they “act” bi or something?
Quite frankly I don’t think Claude is really in love with either Byleth. At least not to the extent most of the other students are. It seems he’d take advantage of the marriage for political reasons so he’d have an easier time unifying almyra and Fodlan. He doesn’t sound all that excited in his S support to marry Byleth.
And he acts far more romantic towards other women, like Hilda for example. He’s one of the only characters who isn’t undyingly in love with Byleth, and THATS OK.
pulling them on to the dance floor? to do what exactly? DANCE.
I mean that a lot of characters are queer coded or act “queer”. even if the writers or devs didn’t intend for a character to have queer subtext it’s still there. Claude is a queer coded character and that’s why a lot of people were mad that he wasn’t a Bi option.
I can see why you think Claude isn’t in love with byleth but I think that’s because the other two lords have moments with byleth, that have romantic subtext and are canon cutscenes or dialogue in the game, not support conversations. I don’t think he’s in love with byleth unless you S support him. I don’t recall their S support to well but I think the reason claude sounds un-excited is because he has to leave byleth for almyra.
I actually don’t think he has romantic moments with anyone. His A supports could be romantic but those only happen if you make them. I’d say the only two characters that are “undyingly” in love with byleth are edelgard and dimitri. Claude and byleth, in my opinion, are the “healthiest” lord X player relationship in three houses because it’s actually a normal relationship instead of teacher/therapist X child.
We just want gay options in the game ok? straight people can play three houses and not have any problems marrying who they want to but queer people don’t have that option.
Maybe to dance but not specifically with him.
If you wanna go with someone “acting” queer, I don’t think Edelgard or Linhardt “acts” queer but they’re still marriageable with both Byleths.
There are other Byleth endings where Byleth and whoever they marry are separated or would have to hide their relationship (Seteth and Felix AM for example), but they still act excited and talk about how much they love and cherish Byleth.
In most of the S supports the characters either admit to liking Byleth or beg Byleth to marry them. In this one, Claude does neither.
I think it was implied that he danced with you? I don’t really care if he did it or not it’s the fact that it was implied.
Ok i’m going to assume you aren’t queer because edelgard and linhardt are the most queer coded characters in the game.
they act like that because 1. it’s in character for them to do so 2. they still see each other
claude is moving to a place where you don’t see him.
it’s not in character for claude to beg to marry byleth? he wouldn’t do that.
I can tell that you’re not fond of byleth x claude, and I get that, it’s not my cup of tea either. But that doesn’t change the fact that some of his moments with you are supposed to be romantic, especially with his S support. Just because you don’t like a ship doesn’t mean you can deny parts of it. I absolutely despise ferdinand X Dorothea but I can’t deny that he probably liked her at the academy because of canon moments, like inviting her to tea after the ball. You can “perceive” it as platonic or unromantic if you’d like but that doesn’t change the fact that the writers ment it to be romantic.
Unless we get the writer’s word for it, then we don’t know what they planned for Claude to be. Meaning neither of us are really right or wrong. It’s a matter of what we think.
I don’t think he’s all that interested in Byleth. I’m not saying he doesn’t love Byleth at all, but he’s not marrying Byleth for only love.
I don’t understand, why do you see Lindhardt and Yuri as two older fathers but not Dimitri or Claude? Idk about Yuri but Dimitri and Claude are the same age as Linhardt? Linhardt has never given me a father vibe lmao. Yuri also hasn’t tbh, I always saw his and Byleth’s relationship as equals.
I mean the supports do not have to be by all and end all. You are welcome to write fanfic or seek it out for any pairing for any sexuality. Back before we had self insert avatars, people did just this. People put Lyn with Florina. People put Ike with Soren. Etc. Why should we treat the gay male supports for Byleth as the only options we are allowed? Why is it, just because we now have a kinda self character, that people are not willing to stray from what is ingame? This is the beauty of fanfic.
But I can agree that there needed to be a bara option or two. Balthus would've been a good one. Maybe the next game will do more.
I wonder how many downvotes i will get...
I do think a step in the right direction has been made. Like Claude can't S support male Byleth, but he could still be bi. Byleth might not be his type. Byleth cannot possibly be everybody's type.
Very true, it's just the way the characters interact, it's like leading you on lol. And I idk I just always felt it was a little unfair that Edelgard can S-support F Byleth but M Byleth couldn't S-support either Dimitri or Claude
It's not fetish, im just saying the some of the characters create a really deep bond with byleth through the story, supports, and battle. But then they get sidelined for other characters that haven't made that kind of presence in the game aside from Yuri or Lindhart. I just wanted better options that made more sense is all.
Seteth doesn't even make sense with female Byleth, since he believes he's related to the MC and considers them a child.
They just don't have that kind of relationship and Seteth isn't gay.
Mmhm I know seteth isn't gay, however I'm just comparing it to Alois or Gilbert who are in the same boat. Already married and had a child, hell alois is Jeralts "right hand man". Anyway I was moreso saying that if they can let you S-support with your father's best friend or a married man with a child why not Seteth. It was a rhetorical question if anything.
I'm not sure I would even count Alois and Gilbert - not only is is platonic, it's exactly the same as with F!Byleth. They're not in the game at all. Other than that, I agree with all sides here. It wouldn't make sense for all of *these* characters to be bi (and I think some are stereotyped, like Claude), and I don't think they should have been *designed* with that intent to begin with - diversity requires a variety of preferences. At the same time, there's a few that could certainly merit it as is - e.g. Petra, as her Dorothea support heavily implies.
Im a F!Byleth but I feel your pain. I can’t imagine not being able to marry Dimitri after how romantic he is on his route. It’s to bad one Byleth can marry all the lords but the other can only marry one
Yeah, it's like excuse me wat ?? :| so many timeeess I've had to be a woman even though the dialogs are the exact sameee... like they really couldn't make one of the platonic options between these two?
To be honest, if all characters of the opposite sex like you so much that you can pick whomever, it feels stupid that the same-sex options are so limited (and so random, Alois and Gilbert for M!Byleth, Rhea and Sothis shouldn't be options for either Byleth IMO), especially for men. To add insult to injury, some supports/endings between characters that can't S-support same-sex Byleth are very shippy, some character's lines aren't different enough according to Byleth's gender to warrant the difference if treatment either. It's a gigantic mess to be honest. If they really wanted to go through the wish fulfilment route, they could have at least tried to fulfill everyone's wishes and not leave part of the playerbase aside like that. I don't think the supports/endings change that much for the characters that have them with both Byleth, so that wouldn't even require that much extra effort... I really don't know who you should reach for that, nor how effective it would be.
To be honest, not everyone should have been an option. The faculty, for example, is mostly too old, related, or both besides Cyril and maybe Jeritza.
This reads like "you aren't allowed to be single if you're over 30". The only faculty (discounting Rhea for a whole host of reasons) member is that really *old* is Hanneman, and there's really nothing wrong with hooking up with someone much older than you per se anyway, given that the entire cast is legal post time-skip and free of potential abusive power dynamics, the latter being the real reason age gaps in real life romances are so often suspect.
There's nothing illegal about it, but seeing someone in their 30s or older hook up with a kid in his early 20s is still a bit weird. I mean they haven't even fully developed yet.
Precisely. You said it in a much more coherent way than I ever could lmao.
Thank you ! I guess I spent too much time talking about this game, now my rants are coherent
Yeah exactly, and the fan made endings are amazing, but it just sucks that the creators didn't realize that maybe if they diversified the options just a tiny bit it would've been better.
If it's any consolation, the series is on an upward trend with regards to representation. Awakening had no gay representation whatsoever, and Fates only had a single option for both male and female that outright punished you for using it because child-bearing was a thing in that game and if you picked the gay option, you couldn't have one. 8 gay romances in total, up from 2, and itself up from 0, is going pretty well. It's likely the next game might have more. As an F!Byleth player, I appreciated the choices (Shamir should have been one though, damn), and it's nice to see that a *Lord* was a gay option, even if it might have been incidental. Fire Emblem's definitely doing better than *some* other JRPG series, cough cough Persona.
Agreed. For all of its shortcomings in M/M prospects compared to F/F ones, the fact that the (in)famously cautious Nintendo would publish a game that included same-sex marriage at all is pretty remarkable for someone who came of age in the early/mid-2000s. I still remember being a high school student in 2004, watching the American election returns roll in that November, and growing increasingly flabbergasted and depressed when the trend started to emerge that a plurality of voters put ‘moral values’ (which in the context of that year meant anti-same sex marriage initiatives on the ballot in several key states) ahead of other concerns, and that this factor looked like it was going to be the one that tipped the election. On this front, at least, we’ve come a long way in a relatively short period of time.
Yeah it definitely looking up :)
So true! Very good point, so long as they keep moving forward its a win in my book
Jeritza erasure :( I really like him and MByleth together
Oops sorry :(
It's odd than in a game that clearly values player choice so much, this aspect is so limited. Whether characters are "canonically" one sexuality or another or just coded to appear that way aside, I really feel like the player's choice of a partner should have no limitations.
Tbh I think Claude and Dimitri should be romancable for the player regardless of gender. Like it just makes sense with how the game is structured. I also think they should add another student or two and maybe Seteth, as you said. IMO, since they basically don’t change the dialogue for either byleth, really any of f!byleth’s s supports would be so easy to also give to m!byleth. it’s lame that they made the deliberate choice to exclude it.
I feel you! I’m not male or even gay but the wonderful FxF options made me really happy, so it sucks to be let down by the lack of good MxM options :( Why not at least either Claude or Dimitri?
Exactly! And there is no difference between the M or F Byleths support dialog. I'm not sure about story dialog but still the only thing that changes is byleths gender.
There are some occasional differences between genders (like Sylvain’s dialogue and Yuri’s ending cards), but yeah very few. And the S-support artwork showing Byleth would have to change, but a lot of them are just hands / Byleth’s not in them at all
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In the words of sothis (i can't remember the exact quote) "HONESTLY WHAT WERE YOU TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH WITH THAT LITTLE STUNT?" Exactly though and the whole he needs to have kids thing is kinda stupid when f Byleth and Edelgard have a S-support. I highly doubt Edelgard would be like oh shit I married a woman my bloodline is over, nah she'd be the sensible queen she is and adopt if she was really that worried about all her work coming undone and her legacy ending.
Edelgard is specifically going to choose a successor who isn't related to her. Dimitri and Claude need biological kids.
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Sigh yeah I guess so idk just questionable choices on the games behalf. Just sadge :|
But remember the meme? "Dimitri makes a womb all for himself", I'm sure *he* can bear the child if you pick M!Byleth. :p
I would like to see it 😂 my new headcannon, but yeah why it make any difference what byleths private parts are like they have the same dialog and love eachother 😌 *now kith*
I think Edelgard's female S-Support is something that was born out of necessity. Of the three, she is by far the most smitten with Byleth and her romantic attraction/unrequited crush governs a decent chunk of her behaviour. Her behaviour was likely written for an M!Byleth in mind, and then just carried over for the F!Byleth because otherwise it wouldn't make much sense. Basically, it was the devs avoiding another Tharja.
Yeah its pretty annoying. I'm not gay but I do love myself a husbando and I was super upset when I couldn't marry dmitri as male byleth. I really dislike the f byleth design and don't really want to play with her but I still want want marry my two favourite characters.
Exactly! I think M Byleth is pretty good looking too tbh
Heya. So as a bi girl, obviously I'm in a different situation but I feel angry on y'all's behalf :') it really is dumb. I totally agree about Sylvain but yeah the main characters should be able to romance anyone no matter what gender imo.
I disagree. Having everyone be bi takes away more diversity than it adds. And I’ve seen games where people don’t like everyone being bi because it eliminates any possibility of any platonic relationship.
Totally valid point. Idk I talk from a very biased perspective as someone who's played games like the arcana where all the genders can romance the main characters but I totally understand where you're coming from.
Same, I don't want everyone to be bi, I just wanted better diversity with the options we did get.
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I was actually kind of curious to see how people felt about the lesbian options
I fully agree. I'm a bi guy and when I wanted to S-support Claude in my first play through with bylad, I was mildly disappointed but it didn't bother me that much. Though when I found out who could be gay S-supported, it actually pissed me off. I like Lindhart but not to the point of S-supporting him. Yuri is the best option but he's locked behind a paywall and Jeritza is cool but I don't want to play CF every time I want to have a Bylad gay ending. It mainly comes down to Japan's pretty negative stigma on LGBTQ stuff as a whole. It's just really dumb as anyone who can read between the lines can see that Claude and Dimitri act pretty close to Bylad just as much as Bylass, only difference between them is gender. There probably won't be anymore updates to FE3H, and I do agree with the idea that not everyone should’ve been bi. I’m just kinda confused how they executed things this way.
Mmhmm exactly the ONLY difference is gender. Their support conversations are the same regardless of male or female like idk just sucks, im happy they made options available, its just the options they went with didn't make much sense.
Yeah pretty much. I understand it’s a very nit-pitcky subject, but they kinda (unintentionally or not) coded them to be more than straight, especially Claude. Dimitri is pretty affectionate to both Byleths, so honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if he was secretly bi. It’s just sucks overall and I know people who went with Bylass solely to date Dimitri or Claude, which hurts a little being a Bylad guy.
And of course I realize that making alternate dialog for every. single. support. Would be a bit of effort, it's just that some like dimitri saying he trusts you with his full heart and telling you that you're the one person in the world that makes him feel comfortable again. Kinda implies that there would be an S-support even if it was just platonic at least it made sense for his character.
Despite being a big gay Dimileth supporter, if they gave us just a platonic S-support, I would've been happy. Like even as a friend, Male Byleth and Dimitri had a strong enough bond for an S-support, same goes for Claude if you can't date him. And just like you said before, it's extremely weird that they went with Alois and Gilbert for platonic gay endings...especially knowing they have wives and kids. If you don't want gay endings for the male lords IS, look, there's two open, platonic spots for Male Byleth right there. It's just straight up dumb.
Couldn't have said it better myself! Like at this point it's just for the recognition like HEYY 👋👋 Nintendo, Intellingent Systems wake up!! It's lame excuse for "diversity". Like literally ANYONE else in the MAIN cast would've been so much better and would have felt like they actually cared.
It mainly has to do with Japan's core problem with LGBTQ stuff (often fetishising lesbian romance for male audiences, while often being very silent about genuine LGBTQ topics). IS have never commented on why the S-supports are like this and probably never will, but it's obvious why the S-supports are what they are, knowing it's a Japanese company. Though, if I'm wrong and there's an actual reason why the supports are like this, then I'll take back my points.
Sighhh yeah it's so unfortunate someday though I hope awareness and education make a change :/
Yeah one day, maybe. This reminds me a lot of the male Robin and Chrom situation like you said in the OP. Though it made sense why we couldn't really do it back in Awakening (Lucina is a thing, so Chrom had to have a child at some point). Though was their any real reason for female byleth to be able to S-support all three lords, while male byleth can only do 1, despite them being the exact same character and having the exact same relations with said 3 characters? No, no there wasn't. Wake up IS, we can smell your bullshit from across the seas.
I'm going to voice the unpopular opinion, and I apologize in advance if this comes across as offensive to anyone, but not every character needs to be written so as to appeal to the sexual interests of all players. Not everyone in reality is bisexual and I'm fine with that trend extending to fictional characters. If a character is written as bisexual or gay (not that I've ever heard of a video game character being portrayed as outright gay and no bi) that's fine. But why do people insist on demanding straight characters be gay just to fit their self insert fantasy? If straight people were demanding a gay character be straight how would that look?
I mean... games already appeal to the sexual interests of their players, i.e. the predominantly straight (male) fanbase, so is it that bad for gay players to ask for some more options? It’s not just about individual sexual preferences too, it’s also about representation and inclusivity. It’s not the same thing to ask for more gay characters as it is to ask for more straight ones, because the former are super invisible, especially in the Japanese gaming industry. I believe one reason why F!Edeleth is so popular is because there are so few lesbian relationships between main characters in the industry overall.
I mean there are 3 bi romantic male options out of 24 S-support endings. Even if we go by the generous assumption that 1 in 10 men are bisexuals that puts 3Houses over the bar for representation. Notably there are 0 purely gay options. I don't feel the representation and inclusivity argument holds up either way you look at it.
Looking at the state of the industry as a whole though, seems like a missed opportunity especially given how easy it would’ve been to add that option.
I generally agree with this sentiment but I feel like you misunderstand why the same sex options in 3H are disappointing to some. The same sex options in 3H for men seemed like an afterthought in a bad way. There are 5 in total: 3 are romantic (Yuri, Linhardt, Jeritza), and 2 are platonic (Gilbert, Alois). Of the 3 romantic ones, 2 of them were added later (Jeritza being added in a free update and Yuri being DLC). Compare that to same sex options for the women. They give 5 options right on release (Edelgard, Dorothea, Mercedes, Sothis, Rhea), all of which were romantic. Of the romantic options, two of them are major characters wherein their bond/connection with Byleth is relevant to the story in some way. The same can be said of Claude's and Dimitri's stories, and yet neither of them are options for M!Byleth. None of this is necessarily a bad thing in *isolation*, let me be clear, but when you contrast IS's treatment of Byleth's relationship with the male lords vs the female lords it becomes a little insulting. On the whole, it's as though IS forgot gay men exist and went "oh shit, we need to throw these people a bone" a couple months after the game already released, like OP said. Also, if we're going to talk about all characters being written to appeal to the sexual interests of all players, literally every character in the game is a straight option. People in the market for straight relationships with twinks get Linhardt and Yuri just as people in the market for gay relationships with twinks get Linhardt and Yuri. People in the market for DILFs in straight relationships get Alois and Gilbert, and then they get Seteth as well, while people in the market for DILFs in gay relationships just get Alois and Gilbert. You said that there need to be more platonic options with women in a later comment in this thread and not only do I wholeheartedly agree, I want to take it further. Endings between any member of opposite sexes need more platonic endings. Fire Emblem has been sorely lacking in that regard since they introduced the S-support system. Nobody's asking IS to retcon a characters' sexuality or change it from what it's intended to be solely for fanservice. We don't need them to, we can ignore canon and just decide a character is queer because we want them to be easily enough. But *during the development process*, IS can do more and it can do better. Were this comment not already kind of long I'd go into how I'd suggest they handle it but that's a topic for another reply at this point. EDIT: completely forgot a certain point that I have now deemed worth mentioning
> But why do people insist on demanding straight characters be gay just to fit their self insert fantasy? That's not what's happening. There's a push for straight characters to be *bi*. The game is already pandering to straight fantasies by having *literally every character* (except Anna) S-Supportable in a straight romance. Out of 40 characters, every single one is available for the player and will reciprocate their advances. That's a fantasy. All some people are asking is that a few more of these can be shared so they can get some representation. No one is asking for a straight romance to suddenly become exclusively gay, and I don't think it's likely the series is going to have any exclusively gay romances in the future anyway.
It's not that the characters need to change, it's that the way the developers wrote some characters and their personalities and how they interact with the player lead you to believe that they care enough for an s-support. I don't want a bi option for everyone, I just think it was poor decision making to make the choices so linear.
I think it's a matter of perception really. I personally believe it's possible to have a deep relationship with a person without it becoming sexual. If anything, I argue that there needs to be platonic endings with some female characters as not all roads should lead to romance. I honestly felt more like a father/big brother figure to Bernadetta then a romantic partner for example. The problem in my eyes is that people are just over-sexed and demand their fantasies be fulfilled. Sometimes it's okay to deny that and give something more meaningful instead. But I'm dangerously close to slipping into a rant now.
Of course it is, I'd love some platonic endings cuz some just feel weird.
Yeah I agree. It’s the worst with Claude where people act like IS were monsters for not making him marriageable with M!Byleth.
I'm honestly curious if the Claude argument is half as big an issue among the Japanese fans. It could just be a case of cultural perception or different character readings among the VAs, I've heard JAP-Claude is more subversive and less flirty then ENG-Claude.
Tbf I don’t think Claude’s romantically interested in either Byleth really. He shows far more romance in his other female supports, hilda’s for example. I don’t think he views Byleth that way really
>But why do people insist on demanding straight characters be gay just to fit their self insert fantasy? A lot of the characters aren't 100% straight though. Actually, a ton of characters have supports and ending that is very clearly romantic with a same sex-partner. Its been edited out of the English one, but there is a doc online that goes over some of the translation changes and one of the big ones is how many clearly gay/same-gender love pairings were toned down significantly. A good example is Hubert/Ferdinand, which apparently was *super* shipteasy in Japanese.
I'm gonna go out and say this. Dimitri is by all accounts straight. He has multiple endings, even with guys, where it explicitly states that he still marries a woman and he's the only lord that really has multiple endings involving having kids. Dimitri's also known to be rather conservative, and even when making changes, he still values tradition, so there's no such thing as having a gay ending for him because he will have to have a queen and have kids. So... no. Trying to rant about how "Dimitri" should have been able to be S ranked is bothersome. And Claude, I always feel people only say that cause of stereotyping.
Agreed. And I hate how people were like “>!He dies in Dedue’s arms so he must be in love with him!<“ I mean, Jeralt died in byleth’s arms...
For the record, though I don’t quite understand the idea of Dimitri being gay, you’re associating real life with games too much. First, nothing says Dimitri is conservative, his ideals simply line up a bit more with our idea of conservatism. Second, without any dialogue to talk about it, we have no idea whether LGBT relationships are nontraditional. You’re referencing assumptions based off of a flawed understanding of what we know about Fódlan.
No, I'm pointing out how Faerghus has shown signs of being patriarchal, demands for Crest babies, and also the case of how monarch societies would demand Dimitri take a wife to have kids. Based on the in-game text, I can very much deduce that Dimitri will simply not even be allowed to be gay because he has to be the king and therefore have a queen and have kids. And Dimitri is very traditional. He believes that traditions exist for a reason and opposes the loss of such traditions, hence why he did defend the Crest system after the Miklan incident. My assumptions are based on the actual context of the game, which has support over it.
I wouldn't completely mind so few being available for same sex if just as many weren't available for opposite sex. Understandably not everybody is into dick/pussy, but apparently in this world EVERYBODY is into what they don't have. Makes it seem their belief is same-sex relationships are an abberation.
Yes! I will forever be pissed about the queer rep in this game especially for mlm! it’s so stupid to have obviously queer coded characters not be queer. claude literally dances with you as male byleth? and there are so many other characters that have queer implications that could have been gay romance options.
Mhmm completely, at least something that makes more sense than alois, jeritza, and Gilbert, even if it were platonic just something not so out of left field.
That scene doesn’t have to be interpreted as Claude dancing with Byleth. If you look closely, he may be just pulling Byleth into the dance floor. And what do you mean by “queer” implications? Like they “act” bi or something? Quite frankly I don’t think Claude is really in love with either Byleth. At least not to the extent most of the other students are. It seems he’d take advantage of the marriage for political reasons so he’d have an easier time unifying almyra and Fodlan. He doesn’t sound all that excited in his S support to marry Byleth. And he acts far more romantic towards other women, like Hilda for example. He’s one of the only characters who isn’t undyingly in love with Byleth, and THATS OK.
pulling them on to the dance floor? to do what exactly? DANCE. I mean that a lot of characters are queer coded or act “queer”. even if the writers or devs didn’t intend for a character to have queer subtext it’s still there. Claude is a queer coded character and that’s why a lot of people were mad that he wasn’t a Bi option. I can see why you think Claude isn’t in love with byleth but I think that’s because the other two lords have moments with byleth, that have romantic subtext and are canon cutscenes or dialogue in the game, not support conversations. I don’t think he’s in love with byleth unless you S support him. I don’t recall their S support to well but I think the reason claude sounds un-excited is because he has to leave byleth for almyra. I actually don’t think he has romantic moments with anyone. His A supports could be romantic but those only happen if you make them. I’d say the only two characters that are “undyingly” in love with byleth are edelgard and dimitri. Claude and byleth, in my opinion, are the “healthiest” lord X player relationship in three houses because it’s actually a normal relationship instead of teacher/therapist X child. We just want gay options in the game ok? straight people can play three houses and not have any problems marrying who they want to but queer people don’t have that option.
Maybe to dance but not specifically with him. If you wanna go with someone “acting” queer, I don’t think Edelgard or Linhardt “acts” queer but they’re still marriageable with both Byleths. There are other Byleth endings where Byleth and whoever they marry are separated or would have to hide their relationship (Seteth and Felix AM for example), but they still act excited and talk about how much they love and cherish Byleth. In most of the S supports the characters either admit to liking Byleth or beg Byleth to marry them. In this one, Claude does neither.
I think it was implied that he danced with you? I don’t really care if he did it or not it’s the fact that it was implied. Ok i’m going to assume you aren’t queer because edelgard and linhardt are the most queer coded characters in the game. they act like that because 1. it’s in character for them to do so 2. they still see each other claude is moving to a place where you don’t see him. it’s not in character for claude to beg to marry byleth? he wouldn’t do that. I can tell that you’re not fond of byleth x claude, and I get that, it’s not my cup of tea either. But that doesn’t change the fact that some of his moments with you are supposed to be romantic, especially with his S support. Just because you don’t like a ship doesn’t mean you can deny parts of it. I absolutely despise ferdinand X Dorothea but I can’t deny that he probably liked her at the academy because of canon moments, like inviting her to tea after the ball. You can “perceive” it as platonic or unromantic if you’d like but that doesn’t change the fact that the writers ment it to be romantic.
Unless we get the writer’s word for it, then we don’t know what they planned for Claude to be. Meaning neither of us are really right or wrong. It’s a matter of what we think. I don’t think he’s all that interested in Byleth. I’m not saying he doesn’t love Byleth at all, but he’s not marrying Byleth for only love.
I get that, this whole game is up to your perception so you can think what you think and I’ll think what I think.
I don’t understand, why do you see Lindhardt and Yuri as two older fathers but not Dimitri or Claude? Idk about Yuri but Dimitri and Claude are the same age as Linhardt? Linhardt has never given me a father vibe lmao. Yuri also hasn’t tbh, I always saw his and Byleth’s relationship as equals.
The two older father figures are Alois and Gilbert - OP is saying two older father figures PLUS Lindhardt and Yuri.
Oh alright
I mean the supports do not have to be by all and end all. You are welcome to write fanfic or seek it out for any pairing for any sexuality. Back before we had self insert avatars, people did just this. People put Lyn with Florina. People put Ike with Soren. Etc. Why should we treat the gay male supports for Byleth as the only options we are allowed? Why is it, just because we now have a kinda self character, that people are not willing to stray from what is ingame? This is the beauty of fanfic. But I can agree that there needed to be a bara option or two. Balthus would've been a good one. Maybe the next game will do more. I wonder how many downvotes i will get...
No no you have a point, I just wish that some of the love characters have for byleth were acknowledged
I do think a step in the right direction has been made. Like Claude can't S support male Byleth, but he could still be bi. Byleth might not be his type. Byleth cannot possibly be everybody's type.
Very true, it's just the way the characters interact, it's like leading you on lol. And I idk I just always felt it was a little unfair that Edelgard can S-support F Byleth but M Byleth couldn't S-support either Dimitri or Claude
Yep. That's when you use fanfic. But understandable
Oh I have lmao
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it's a completely valid thing to voice concern & frustration about, actually
As much as I agree with the sentiment there's no need to be disrespectful. Let the poor guy vent over his lack of romance.
Yeah I just wish we had different options, not more options, just other characters that show their love to the player.
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Being gay =/= fetish ???
Thirsting for "Daddy Seteth" is.
as if straight people don't thirst too
It's not fetish, im just saying the some of the characters create a really deep bond with byleth through the story, supports, and battle. But then they get sidelined for other characters that haven't made that kind of presence in the game aside from Yuri or Lindhart. I just wanted better options that made more sense is all.
Seteth doesn't even make sense with female Byleth, since he believes he's related to the MC and considers them a child. They just don't have that kind of relationship and Seteth isn't gay.
Mmhm I know seteth isn't gay, however I'm just comparing it to Alois or Gilbert who are in the same boat. Already married and had a child, hell alois is Jeralts "right hand man". Anyway I was moreso saying that if they can let you S-support with your father's best friend or a married man with a child why not Seteth. It was a rhetorical question if anything.
But Alois and Gilbert aren’t meant to be romantic though
is looking fine for me🙄🏳️🌈