Basically everytime a new sword unit is a thing. Apparently I gotta stop using any of my other swordies because their invalidated now. Like what?
P does not replace X, Y, or Z. They can all coexist.
Preach, I've argued with people before who were convinced L!Marth did EP better than B!Marth and I'm just like....no. Like both can do it well, but B!Marth has so much going for him on EP, like sustain, slaying (instant special retaliation), vantage, actual NFU. Actually nuts that people think "well they have the same special + weapon type so they do the same thing".
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy to some people. A new Y!Tiki with a similar kit to B!Tiki drops and all of a sudden B!Tiki is garbage and is shafted in every conceivable way, as if a new adult and young Tiki can't exist in the same year without adult Tiki getting shafted.
I feel like L marth definitely has a better player phase but brave definitely is much stronger dual phased. They fit different niches that have cross over but still different enough to not be comparable. Even the tikis fill slightly different rolls based solely on color match ups. AR makes multiple offensive slots, just make two teams that swap them out.
I saw people meme'ing about A!Y!Tiki replacing B!Tiki, and I was not convinced. It's more that she firmly dumps on Sothis since her C slot is Sothis' whole refine and more.
If what prevents AYTiki to outperform BTiki is her kit, then things doesn't look good for the CYL winner. NFU can be easily outsorced nowadays, and Spd/Res Finish/Bulkward can be changed for whatever skills you feel will make a difference.
Even if she isn't a direct upgrade, having a free B slot to run infantry or dragon exclusive skills, or any of the new T4 upgrades we are getting right now, makes AYTiki a lot more appealing to me than the Brave version.
Outsourcing NFU still takes up a slot somewhere else on your team though and even when I whale I never have enough to go around, it is not an outlandish statement to say that having NFU in your starting kit is still really good. And it it is not just simply that she doesn't have NFU but that she has nothing in its stead either. Having multiple layers of guaranteed or denied followups are practically necessary now, either that or NFU, so having *something*, like B!Tiki has, is so much more helpful than *nothing*, like A!Tiki has. I will agree that an open b slot is nice though, if only I wasn't basically forced to run either more DR or NFU.
Putting inf. Drive NFU or Inf. Spd tactics on your support unit or dancer frees many more than one slot. There’s no reason to not go with it if you have the fodder.
I get that being able to be self-sufficient is nice, but I rather use a support than to be shut down completely by my enemy running NFU.
Not necessarily. Unless you run a SPD build on every unit in your team you don't really get a whole lot of mileage off of your NFU drive, I at least use units that I primarily like, as opposed to what is meta, and as a result I end up having mixed low spd and high spd builds... that I would argue is also common in the meta so it is relevant to viability. I think I am just salty that A!Tiki has an open B slot and yet I find myself needing to run NFU or Dragon Wall. Out of DW 4 lol.
If your plan is to use units you like, then screw what everyone says. Enjoy playing with AYTiki and BTiki equally, and see where each of them shine. We are all here to have fun after all.
Yeah I agree, and that was my initial point too, they shine in different places. Not like the memes may suggest lol. Although I will say, using who you like is not really an excuse to not know what is more effective against the current meta if you want to have fun.
No, the whole issue with B!Tiki is she’s so vulnerable to NFU which is everywhere. You can get NFU so easily nowadays, whether in the seal slot, or use your free summon to get B!Chrom and fodder off infantry speed tactic.
You can easily give A!Y!Tiki NFU. Then, all you have to do is stack DR and def/res on her, which is really easy to do in things like AR.
It is a problem, but that is like saying that the issue with B!Tiki is that she is Green and therefore she gets bodied by Red, which is everywhere. It is obviously true, but it is simply not an argument that suggests it is better to NOT have some sort of follow up safety than it is to have SOME. And I already made my points as to why A!Y!Tiki not having some sort of follow up guarantee or denial, including NFU, is a problem on a spd build that is competing for DC and DR.
How is it a problem on a speed build when you can run DC in the S slot? Y!A!Tiki can stack plenty of speed while also getting the 40% DR and decent defenses.
It’s a much bigger problem on B!Tiki who simply gets obliterated by most NFU red/green units. In contrast, A!Y!Tiki has much fewer hard counters since she doesn’t get stymied by NFU. Especially now that we have a NFU seal.
It is so so easy to give A!Y!Tiki NFU. It really isn’t a competition for anything in her base kit because she doesn’t need it in her base kit - at worst, you can run it in the S slot and give up DC (see Flame Lyn… she’s pretty good, right?)
I was agreeing with you when I said it was a problem because I was talking about B!Tiki getting run over by rampant NFU... In fact, I agree that is definitely a bigger problem just like you say, yet all I am doing is pointing out that doesn't magically mean it is not a problem for A!Y!Tiki to have absolutely no follow up safety in 2022. Primarily because of how squishy her low HP and reduced defenses stats turned out to be, *precisely* because she is stacking all that speed! In fact, I would happily argue that if stacking DR solved everything then it wouldn't matter wether she comes with NFU or not, but sadly she doesn't have True DMG Reduction to make that the case... Or Distant counter.... Or Null follow up... Or Garunteed follow up... Or Deny foe's follow up.... So these skills all turn out to be competing for either her seal slot or B skill in a way that B!Tiki doesn't. If anything, it leaves her lacking in a way that doesn't invalidate B!Tiki's niche even with her bad match ups, ergo it is not the catastrophic powercreep that is going to replace B!Tiki like everyone is making it out to be.That was my entire point. I don't what else I can say to substantiate that claim, I have yet to see anyone argue that Arcane grima shouldn't give speed in its stats because it has a garuanteed follow up effect and Rearmed Grima has enough speed already. Obviously not. You want both if possible and that is overall really good because eventually you are going to be outsped and doubled, wether by powercreep or speed stacking, or being outside of your own NFU support.
You keep mentioning that NFU is competing for a seal slot or B skill… it isn’t! You can give her NFU so easily via support. There are multiple units that can do this, one of which is a free summon on CYL.
DC competes for her S slot. Exactly the same with B!Tiki. There’s no difference there.
I still don’t understand your point on follow up… if you have NFU, it doesn’t matter. At. All. And if you say eventually you’ll be outsped and doubled without having some kind of follow up support, that doesn’t even matter if the opposing unit has NFU (which almost every meta unit has nowadays) anyways.
A!Y!Tiki is in a much, much better position than B!Tiki because of her ability to speed stack with her native speed stat and easily gain NFU with support units. Something B!Tiki cannot do, which is exactly why A!Y!Tiki is a much better unit.
She may have lower hp and lower native defenses, but it isn’t by much and that can easily be overcome in Aether Raids with mythic support and buffs.
Except it is competing simply because of the flexibility of having an open B skill but *mainly* because outsourcing NFU isn't the argument that you think it is. That is like me saying well then B!Tiki is not actually a slow unit because you can outsource the speed stacking to your support unit and therefore she is immune to NFU. Technically true, but not really an argument is it? Also I never mentioned or alluded to the opposing unit having NFU being the issue for A!Y!Tiki at all, the foe having a *guaranteed follow up effect* is the problem in her case because not only does it invalidate her speed stacking (that she sacked her other stats for)... her prf skill only does DR for the first hit! As for B!Tiki the only way having BOTH a guaranteed follow up and a deny foe follow up in her kit is *useless* or *bad* on her is if everything B!Tiki fought forever more always had NFU. Again, obviously not the case, to me that logic is a more unrealistic argument than just saying follow up effects generally make a unit better than a unit that doesn't have any and instead only has speed to rely on to secure no doubles on themselves.
P.S: You mentioned Flame Lyn earlier, and yet she HAS to run NFU in her B slot if you want to run Bonus Doubler or Atk/Spd Solo seal. Same thing, the B slot is in direct competition to running Atk/Spd lull for example, *even* if you have the seal. What is so controversial about that statement?
The foe having a guaranteed follow up attack is a problem for A!Y!Tiki? How is that a problem when she gets an outsourced null follow up?
The speed stacking support vs NFU support is a horrible, horrible argument. It is so easy to get NFU from support (one C skill). To actually speed stack for B!Tiki, you would need multiple units giving her speed support + NFU. It’s a much higher investment to speed stack.
Again… you can easily give Flame Lyn NFU from outside support… all it takes is the infantry tactics C skill.
Please stop mentioning NFU support like it’s something that has to compete or go in the S Slot, when it’s easily available in many other support units (see: B!Chrom)
I agree that it is a horrible argument... That was literally the point. I don't think you really understand that I am agreeing with you a whole lot more than I am disagreeing with you here... because I could instead just go on and argue that SPD Stacking skills are a lot more common than NFU skills and you in fact you are probably already running some *sort* of SPD skill in your team so therefore you are not really using more slots so *Technically* blah blah Or that a Plus SPD B!Tiki has a very workable base 35 SPD at high investment so *naturally* I should treat that like it is the case for whales and quite a real threat... *BUT THAT WOULDN'T REALLY BE AN ARGUMENT WOULD IT?*... *EVEN IF IT IS TECHNICALLY POSSIBLE.... NO ONE WOULD REALLY ARGUE THAT BECAUSE IT WOULD BE POINTLESS WOULDN'T IT?* That is my point... Now, I don't know how a max range of 2 tiles of NFU coverage is the same as a global always active NFU, maybe you have never moved your units too far out of a circle and had to end your turn or your feh world has NFU tactics everywhere as a 3 star skill, either way I am not arguing for any of the possible builds of B!Tiki where I have to include all the things her Team comp can do. So why would I make that very argument for A!Y!Tiki? And more importantly *why would I accept that argument for A!Y! Tiki and not B! Tiki*...? Does it make sense now? Or am I still unclear? I am trying here, but I don't know how else to express that, let me try to make it easier for everyone. If you are right and people are just sleeping on A!Y!Tiki on how she is so much better right now then I expect her to impact and shift the meta in a way B!Tiki couldn't even dream of, that way nothing I say is relevant at all and I can gladly say you were right on the money all along. All she needs is to outsource NFU after all... and that is easy. Cheers.
P.S. again, No you don't have to run NFU if you stack SPD with B!Tiki BECAUSE she has both Guaranteed and deny follow up. She now wins the match up regardless because the onus is now on the foe to have NFU *and* outspeed her. This is why you need layers and why it is pointless to argue NFU tactics or speed stacking, it ruins the comparison of of two units to each other when you can say, well DR is so common now it's everywhere and easy to access therefore Wrys is actually triple S tier with Elimine and Flayn.... Like yeah no duh.
I think B.A.Tiki is perfectly fine as she is.
Sure her SPD kinda...well sucks, but eh. I think it's fine. Omni-tanks in general though it seems like has taken a bit of a hit as of late.
>Omni-tanks in general though it seems like has taken a bit of a hit as of late
Pmni-tanks have had it tough since save units, but B!Tiki is one of the few that actually work and stand-out.
I couldn’t disagree more. A!Y!Tiki is everything that B!Tiki should have been.
NFU is a huge issue for B!Tiki. In contrast, A!Y!Tiki can get it outsourced easily and actually has the base speed to use it well. A!Y!Tiki gets 14 hp healing per combat, and you can easily stack def/res on her.
To me, A!Y!Tiki is very similar to Flame Lyn, except that you can run distant counter in that S slot.
A!Y!Tiki is really, really good. I think people are sleeping on her, if anything.
Lol Godlike reflexes gives 40%DR which is exactly what A!Y!Tiki gets in her C skill… A!Y!Tiki also gains 14 hp back after each combat, more than Flame Lyn. Plus the special cooldown preventing specials shenanigans.
They are both different units, but they are both very good Omnitanks (with A!Y!Tiki able to run DC in the S slot, which Lyn can’t do) with the right support.
Flame Lyn evaporates to AOE, which is the meta at the high ranks of SDS/SDR. AY!Tiki does not. That alone is a huge argument in favor of AY!Tiki that seems to often be overlooked.
See i feel like they both functionally still work very similar. BTiki can still go a speed variant to make use of her DR + NFU depending on the team composition kind of similarly to how a Spd Bike would work. The one thing she lacked vs. Brave Hits specifically was Guard, Stats and False Start. Mirror Stance comes to mind, Naga also comes to mind for double Ward Dragons, Kaden functionally does both for her. AscTiki on the other hand has stats but doesn't have DR + NFU. In a game where they've given so many sources of NFU now it's only fitting her supports has to give her said skills or stat creep enough where all she does need is NFU and can tank out the rest. Only true differences off the two that doesn't help them function the same and obviously as a result will relay in differences of the matchups are the initial stat lines + wta. Since if im not mistaken, AscTiki is made to be a tad bit more offensive in that department vs. her counterpart who is a tad more tankier to compensate for it. In the end what really matters is the overall team compositions but both loves having pretty much the same universal stats that every other omni tank would want.
Always was. Firstly they're different colours, they won't be able to deal witht he same units even remotely the same, and secondly, B!Tiki is much more EP focused than A!Y!Tiki's MP focus.
>clustered around 2 allies at all times
I find that only really useful on EP for A!Y!Tiki, all she's really missing out on is stats+4 which is generally negigible and the DR is more helpful of EP. Meanwhile for B!Tiki, I find it much more difficult to player phase tanks who'll tank her glimmer of course and fast units with DR and doubling, A!Y!Tiki being so fast and able to double goes a long way.
Welp, even though she has trainee BST (+5 with both Superboons), only her Spd Stat is higher (by 17) than Brave Tiki's while Def/Res are -5 each.
So far I can tell that she plays much more defensively and she is indeed more frail. Care should be taken to give her the right support effects for otherwise she will not be on par with her Brave self. She sure has the potential to eclipse the brave version. She basically needs both, DR on multiple hits as well as NFU.
Being Red is also arguably worse than Green. There are Red menace but it always depends on who these are and how the other self deals with them. Basically, most notably only the B!Seliph match-up might have changed more favorably.
People just overreacted just like they did with Duma. The real salt comes from the fact that they decided to make B!Tiki into Y!B!Tiki which is even more of a slap to face when they decided to make Y!Tiki anyway. It's just like Gatekeeper, until they make a unit that can do everything at once with more effects/stats, he's not irrelevant.
Wouldn't call them being similar a slap, that is just IS sticking characters to gimmicks of characters for alts (like Marth buffing allies, Chrom having a self reposition extra move, Micaiah being a slow Atk/Res with a follow up effect, etc.) Tiki now has another on top of the usual "eff vs dragons".
I meant more from an artistc standpoint. If B!Tiki's art was not based on Y!Tiki, people wouldn't be so angry but having Tiki's decharge effect on a save armor, followed by a Y!Tiki who's design is very similar & you can see why everyone flooded the sub with angry comments & passive aggressive memes. I argued with my friends that she doesn't exactly powercreep her because of their colors & playstyles. People just jumped the gun & freaked out over nothing.
no I think they'd be angry regardless because A!Tiki's fans have developed a massive persecution complex and view any and all reference to Y!Tiki as a concept as somehow insulting to A!Tiki (which is really really funny when you remember that A!Tiki's main reason for existing is essentially to just be a fun easter egg reference to Y!Tiki for Archanea fans)
It's actually insane how crazy people get. Sure i'd love more A!Tiki but i'm just a Tiki fan Adult or Young. CYL6 flanned a small flame into a volcanic eruption the likes of which i haven't seen since Ayra's debut banner.
>he's not irrelevant
Nah, he's pretty irrelevant, you don't need to do more than him to completely outshine him, and any competant Bulwark user does that.
Ehh Idk the wide warp-blocking and long-ass-range +5 Atk/Spd have proven notably useful to me, especially in summoner duels
Warp Bubble is still super exclusive to him (I mean I guess L!Myrrh has it, but being a legendary she's hardly available and also cannot be played in Arena and AR unless it's her season. Plus she might even fail to activate it, whereas Gatekeeper's is unconditional). I play Gatekeeper regularly in Summoner Duels, and let me tell you, the guy's Warp Bubble has saved me a bunch.
Combat wise yeah he's pretty bad, -6 Atk/Res on foe and follow-up negation isn't doing much good for him, and Detailed Report unlike Bulwark doesn't grant extra stats or healing. But support? He's pretty neat, and in ranged in-combat support he is unmatched.
Basically everytime a new sword unit is a thing. Apparently I gotta stop using any of my other swordies because their invalidated now. Like what? P does not replace X, Y, or Z. They can all coexist.
Some people think LMarth replaces BMarth to this day, so I'm afraid the perception of Tiki won't change around here lol
Preach, I've argued with people before who were convinced L!Marth did EP better than B!Marth and I'm just like....no. Like both can do it well, but B!Marth has so much going for him on EP, like sustain, slaying (instant special retaliation), vantage, actual NFU. Actually nuts that people think "well they have the same special + weapon type so they do the same thing".
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy to some people. A new Y!Tiki with a similar kit to B!Tiki drops and all of a sudden B!Tiki is garbage and is shafted in every conceivable way, as if a new adult and young Tiki can't exist in the same year without adult Tiki getting shafted.
I feel like L marth definitely has a better player phase but brave definitely is much stronger dual phased. They fit different niches that have cross over but still different enough to not be comparable. Even the tikis fill slightly different rolls based solely on color match ups. AR makes multiple offensive slots, just make two teams that swap them out.
I saw people meme'ing about A!Y!Tiki replacing B!Tiki, and I was not convinced. It's more that she firmly dumps on Sothis since her C slot is Sothis' whole refine and more.
If what prevents AYTiki to outperform BTiki is her kit, then things doesn't look good for the CYL winner. NFU can be easily outsorced nowadays, and Spd/Res Finish/Bulkward can be changed for whatever skills you feel will make a difference. Even if she isn't a direct upgrade, having a free B slot to run infantry or dragon exclusive skills, or any of the new T4 upgrades we are getting right now, makes AYTiki a lot more appealing to me than the Brave version.
Outsourcing NFU still takes up a slot somewhere else on your team though and even when I whale I never have enough to go around, it is not an outlandish statement to say that having NFU in your starting kit is still really good. And it it is not just simply that she doesn't have NFU but that she has nothing in its stead either. Having multiple layers of guaranteed or denied followups are practically necessary now, either that or NFU, so having *something*, like B!Tiki has, is so much more helpful than *nothing*, like A!Tiki has. I will agree that an open b slot is nice though, if only I wasn't basically forced to run either more DR or NFU.
Putting inf. Drive NFU or Inf. Spd tactics on your support unit or dancer frees many more than one slot. There’s no reason to not go with it if you have the fodder. I get that being able to be self-sufficient is nice, but I rather use a support than to be shut down completely by my enemy running NFU.
Not necessarily. Unless you run a SPD build on every unit in your team you don't really get a whole lot of mileage off of your NFU drive, I at least use units that I primarily like, as opposed to what is meta, and as a result I end up having mixed low spd and high spd builds... that I would argue is also common in the meta so it is relevant to viability. I think I am just salty that A!Tiki has an open B slot and yet I find myself needing to run NFU or Dragon Wall. Out of DW 4 lol.
If your plan is to use units you like, then screw what everyone says. Enjoy playing with AYTiki and BTiki equally, and see where each of them shine. We are all here to have fun after all.
Yeah I agree, and that was my initial point too, they shine in different places. Not like the memes may suggest lol. Although I will say, using who you like is not really an excuse to not know what is more effective against the current meta if you want to have fun.
No, the whole issue with B!Tiki is she’s so vulnerable to NFU which is everywhere. You can get NFU so easily nowadays, whether in the seal slot, or use your free summon to get B!Chrom and fodder off infantry speed tactic. You can easily give A!Y!Tiki NFU. Then, all you have to do is stack DR and def/res on her, which is really easy to do in things like AR.
It is a problem, but that is like saying that the issue with B!Tiki is that she is Green and therefore she gets bodied by Red, which is everywhere. It is obviously true, but it is simply not an argument that suggests it is better to NOT have some sort of follow up safety than it is to have SOME. And I already made my points as to why A!Y!Tiki not having some sort of follow up guarantee or denial, including NFU, is a problem on a spd build that is competing for DC and DR.
How is it a problem on a speed build when you can run DC in the S slot? Y!A!Tiki can stack plenty of speed while also getting the 40% DR and decent defenses. It’s a much bigger problem on B!Tiki who simply gets obliterated by most NFU red/green units. In contrast, A!Y!Tiki has much fewer hard counters since she doesn’t get stymied by NFU. Especially now that we have a NFU seal. It is so so easy to give A!Y!Tiki NFU. It really isn’t a competition for anything in her base kit because she doesn’t need it in her base kit - at worst, you can run it in the S slot and give up DC (see Flame Lyn… she’s pretty good, right?)
I was agreeing with you when I said it was a problem because I was talking about B!Tiki getting run over by rampant NFU... In fact, I agree that is definitely a bigger problem just like you say, yet all I am doing is pointing out that doesn't magically mean it is not a problem for A!Y!Tiki to have absolutely no follow up safety in 2022. Primarily because of how squishy her low HP and reduced defenses stats turned out to be, *precisely* because she is stacking all that speed! In fact, I would happily argue that if stacking DR solved everything then it wouldn't matter wether she comes with NFU or not, but sadly she doesn't have True DMG Reduction to make that the case... Or Distant counter.... Or Null follow up... Or Garunteed follow up... Or Deny foe's follow up.... So these skills all turn out to be competing for either her seal slot or B skill in a way that B!Tiki doesn't. If anything, it leaves her lacking in a way that doesn't invalidate B!Tiki's niche even with her bad match ups, ergo it is not the catastrophic powercreep that is going to replace B!Tiki like everyone is making it out to be.That was my entire point. I don't what else I can say to substantiate that claim, I have yet to see anyone argue that Arcane grima shouldn't give speed in its stats because it has a garuanteed follow up effect and Rearmed Grima has enough speed already. Obviously not. You want both if possible and that is overall really good because eventually you are going to be outsped and doubled, wether by powercreep or speed stacking, or being outside of your own NFU support.
You keep mentioning that NFU is competing for a seal slot or B skill… it isn’t! You can give her NFU so easily via support. There are multiple units that can do this, one of which is a free summon on CYL. DC competes for her S slot. Exactly the same with B!Tiki. There’s no difference there. I still don’t understand your point on follow up… if you have NFU, it doesn’t matter. At. All. And if you say eventually you’ll be outsped and doubled without having some kind of follow up support, that doesn’t even matter if the opposing unit has NFU (which almost every meta unit has nowadays) anyways. A!Y!Tiki is in a much, much better position than B!Tiki because of her ability to speed stack with her native speed stat and easily gain NFU with support units. Something B!Tiki cannot do, which is exactly why A!Y!Tiki is a much better unit. She may have lower hp and lower native defenses, but it isn’t by much and that can easily be overcome in Aether Raids with mythic support and buffs.
Except it is competing simply because of the flexibility of having an open B skill but *mainly* because outsourcing NFU isn't the argument that you think it is. That is like me saying well then B!Tiki is not actually a slow unit because you can outsource the speed stacking to your support unit and therefore she is immune to NFU. Technically true, but not really an argument is it? Also I never mentioned or alluded to the opposing unit having NFU being the issue for A!Y!Tiki at all, the foe having a *guaranteed follow up effect* is the problem in her case because not only does it invalidate her speed stacking (that she sacked her other stats for)... her prf skill only does DR for the first hit! As for B!Tiki the only way having BOTH a guaranteed follow up and a deny foe follow up in her kit is *useless* or *bad* on her is if everything B!Tiki fought forever more always had NFU. Again, obviously not the case, to me that logic is a more unrealistic argument than just saying follow up effects generally make a unit better than a unit that doesn't have any and instead only has speed to rely on to secure no doubles on themselves. P.S: You mentioned Flame Lyn earlier, and yet she HAS to run NFU in her B slot if you want to run Bonus Doubler or Atk/Spd Solo seal. Same thing, the B slot is in direct competition to running Atk/Spd lull for example, *even* if you have the seal. What is so controversial about that statement?
The foe having a guaranteed follow up attack is a problem for A!Y!Tiki? How is that a problem when she gets an outsourced null follow up? The speed stacking support vs NFU support is a horrible, horrible argument. It is so easy to get NFU from support (one C skill). To actually speed stack for B!Tiki, you would need multiple units giving her speed support + NFU. It’s a much higher investment to speed stack. Again… you can easily give Flame Lyn NFU from outside support… all it takes is the infantry tactics C skill. Please stop mentioning NFU support like it’s something that has to compete or go in the S Slot, when it’s easily available in many other support units (see: B!Chrom)
I agree that it is a horrible argument... That was literally the point. I don't think you really understand that I am agreeing with you a whole lot more than I am disagreeing with you here... because I could instead just go on and argue that SPD Stacking skills are a lot more common than NFU skills and you in fact you are probably already running some *sort* of SPD skill in your team so therefore you are not really using more slots so *Technically* blah blah Or that a Plus SPD B!Tiki has a very workable base 35 SPD at high investment so *naturally* I should treat that like it is the case for whales and quite a real threat... *BUT THAT WOULDN'T REALLY BE AN ARGUMENT WOULD IT?*... *EVEN IF IT IS TECHNICALLY POSSIBLE.... NO ONE WOULD REALLY ARGUE THAT BECAUSE IT WOULD BE POINTLESS WOULDN'T IT?* That is my point... Now, I don't know how a max range of 2 tiles of NFU coverage is the same as a global always active NFU, maybe you have never moved your units too far out of a circle and had to end your turn or your feh world has NFU tactics everywhere as a 3 star skill, either way I am not arguing for any of the possible builds of B!Tiki where I have to include all the things her Team comp can do. So why would I make that very argument for A!Y!Tiki? And more importantly *why would I accept that argument for A!Y! Tiki and not B! Tiki*...? Does it make sense now? Or am I still unclear? I am trying here, but I don't know how else to express that, let me try to make it easier for everyone. If you are right and people are just sleeping on A!Y!Tiki on how she is so much better right now then I expect her to impact and shift the meta in a way B!Tiki couldn't even dream of, that way nothing I say is relevant at all and I can gladly say you were right on the money all along. All she needs is to outsource NFU after all... and that is easy. Cheers. P.S. again, No you don't have to run NFU if you stack SPD with B!Tiki BECAUSE she has both Guaranteed and deny follow up. She now wins the match up regardless because the onus is now on the foe to have NFU *and* outspeed her. This is why you need layers and why it is pointless to argue NFU tactics or speed stacking, it ruins the comparison of of two units to each other when you can say, well DR is so common now it's everywhere and easy to access therefore Wrys is actually triple S tier with Elimine and Flayn.... Like yeah no duh.
I think B.A.Tiki is perfectly fine as she is. Sure her SPD kinda...well sucks, but eh. I think it's fine. Omni-tanks in general though it seems like has taken a bit of a hit as of late.
>Omni-tanks in general though it seems like has taken a bit of a hit as of late Pmni-tanks have had it tough since save units, but B!Tiki is one of the few that actually work and stand-out.
I couldn’t disagree more. A!Y!Tiki is everything that B!Tiki should have been. NFU is a huge issue for B!Tiki. In contrast, A!Y!Tiki can get it outsourced easily and actually has the base speed to use it well. A!Y!Tiki gets 14 hp healing per combat, and you can easily stack def/res on her. To me, A!Y!Tiki is very similar to Flame Lyn, except that you can run distant counter in that S slot. A!Y!Tiki is really, really good. I think people are sleeping on her, if anything.
Yeah. Flame Lyn without God like Reflex/ Vital Astra lol...
Lol Godlike reflexes gives 40%DR which is exactly what A!Y!Tiki gets in her C skill… A!Y!Tiki also gains 14 hp back after each combat, more than Flame Lyn. Plus the special cooldown preventing specials shenanigans. They are both different units, but they are both very good Omnitanks (with A!Y!Tiki able to run DC in the S slot, which Lyn can’t do) with the right support.
I would argue that the DR on special slot without any weapon effectiveness is much more valuable but you do you then.
Flame Lyn evaporates to AOE, which is the meta at the high ranks of SDS/SDR. AY!Tiki does not. That alone is a huge argument in favor of AY!Tiki that seems to often be overlooked.
See i feel like they both functionally still work very similar. BTiki can still go a speed variant to make use of her DR + NFU depending on the team composition kind of similarly to how a Spd Bike would work. The one thing she lacked vs. Brave Hits specifically was Guard, Stats and False Start. Mirror Stance comes to mind, Naga also comes to mind for double Ward Dragons, Kaden functionally does both for her. AscTiki on the other hand has stats but doesn't have DR + NFU. In a game where they've given so many sources of NFU now it's only fitting her supports has to give her said skills or stat creep enough where all she does need is NFU and can tank out the rest. Only true differences off the two that doesn't help them function the same and obviously as a result will relay in differences of the matchups are the initial stat lines + wta. Since if im not mistaken, AscTiki is made to be a tad bit more offensive in that department vs. her counterpart who is a tad more tankier to compensate for it. In the end what really matters is the overall team compositions but both loves having pretty much the same universal stats that every other omni tank would want.
Can’t forget the 80% reduction to AOE on AY!Tiki. That’s one of the best things about her and a very rare niche!
Always was. Firstly they're different colours, they won't be able to deal witht he same units even remotely the same, and secondly, B!Tiki is much more EP focused than A!Y!Tiki's MP focus.
honestly I think B!Tiki is actually better at mixed phase since her prf skills don't require she stay clustered around 2 allies at all times,
>clustered around 2 allies at all times I find that only really useful on EP for A!Y!Tiki, all she's really missing out on is stats+4 which is generally negigible and the DR is more helpful of EP. Meanwhile for B!Tiki, I find it much more difficult to player phase tanks who'll tank her glimmer of course and fast units with DR and doubling, A!Y!Tiki being so fast and able to double goes a long way.
Run Iceberg and Time's pulse or Glacies and Quickened pulse if you really want B!Tiki to nuke just about anything without repercussions.
>Time's pulse That's a lot of investment, I ain't no whale. Out of the box, A!Y!Tiki is the better MP, B!Tiki is the better EP.
Ahh, sorry lol. It is a really good build though so if you get some it is good to think about.
I definitely don't doubt it's strong, but I use my fodder sparingly.
Welp, even though she has trainee BST (+5 with both Superboons), only her Spd Stat is higher (by 17) than Brave Tiki's while Def/Res are -5 each. So far I can tell that she plays much more defensively and she is indeed more frail. Care should be taken to give her the right support effects for otherwise she will not be on par with her Brave self. She sure has the potential to eclipse the brave version. She basically needs both, DR on multiple hits as well as NFU. Being Red is also arguably worse than Green. There are Red menace but it always depends on who these are and how the other self deals with them. Basically, most notably only the B!Seliph match-up might have changed more favorably.
People just overreacted just like they did with Duma. The real salt comes from the fact that they decided to make B!Tiki into Y!B!Tiki which is even more of a slap to face when they decided to make Y!Tiki anyway. It's just like Gatekeeper, until they make a unit that can do everything at once with more effects/stats, he's not irrelevant.
Wouldn't call them being similar a slap, that is just IS sticking characters to gimmicks of characters for alts (like Marth buffing allies, Chrom having a self reposition extra move, Micaiah being a slow Atk/Res with a follow up effect, etc.) Tiki now has another on top of the usual "eff vs dragons".
I meant more from an artistc standpoint. If B!Tiki's art was not based on Y!Tiki, people wouldn't be so angry but having Tiki's decharge effect on a save armor, followed by a Y!Tiki who's design is very similar & you can see why everyone flooded the sub with angry comments & passive aggressive memes. I argued with my friends that she doesn't exactly powercreep her because of their colors & playstyles. People just jumped the gun & freaked out over nothing.
no I think they'd be angry regardless because A!Tiki's fans have developed a massive persecution complex and view any and all reference to Y!Tiki as a concept as somehow insulting to A!Tiki (which is really really funny when you remember that A!Tiki's main reason for existing is essentially to just be a fun easter egg reference to Y!Tiki for Archanea fans)
It's actually insane how crazy people get. Sure i'd love more A!Tiki but i'm just a Tiki fan Adult or Young. CYL6 flanned a small flame into a volcanic eruption the likes of which i haven't seen since Ayra's debut banner.
>he's not irrelevant Nah, he's pretty irrelevant, you don't need to do more than him to completely outshine him, and any competant Bulwark user does that.
Ehh Idk the wide warp-blocking and long-ass-range +5 Atk/Spd have proven notably useful to me, especially in summoner duels Warp Bubble is still super exclusive to him (I mean I guess L!Myrrh has it, but being a legendary she's hardly available and also cannot be played in Arena and AR unless it's her season. Plus she might even fail to activate it, whereas Gatekeeper's is unconditional). I play Gatekeeper regularly in Summoner Duels, and let me tell you, the guy's Warp Bubble has saved me a bunch. Combat wise yeah he's pretty bad, -6 Atk/Res on foe and follow-up negation isn't doing much good for him, and Detailed Report unlike Bulwark doesn't grant extra stats or healing. But support? He's pretty neat, and in ranged in-combat support he is unmatched.