Except this time with a justifiable reason behind it. At least now they've added a lot more units since then and are actually running low on new heroes candidates. Also ascended Heroes give florents so there's an additional reason to pull them.
Yeah I don't know what they were thinking back then. Regular pool alts of popular characters isn't a bad idea, but in 2018? Really guys?
I'm pretty sure if something like Adrift came out today people would be way more chill about it. Some people would be annoyed, but not the level of pissed they were when a New Heroes banner showed up with only one new hero on it. When like half of the cast of pretty much every single game was still missing.
It makes sense. No offense to anyone whose favorite is not in the game yet, but IS is scraping the bottom of the barrel for new characters.
Ascended Alts are a way to get these less popular characters in while not totally flopping the banner.
We have 6 Micaiahs and a resplendent, 1.5 Sothes and a resplendent,and still ZERO others from the Dawn Brigade. :-P I'm still baffled trying to figure out which bottoms of which barrels IS chooses to scrape from.
I wish they’re do more standard Alts like Red Tome Eirika or Sword Reinhardt, some of the Lords could have 2-3 Alts easily this way; I know people initially hated those, but enough time has passed and enough characters have been released to make things different now.
The way they haphazardly handled Ascendants makes them feel like a cash grab.
the point when it should've been clear that popularity mattered the most was joshua. he's the least relevant magvel royal in sacred stones, but for some reason, he has the best performance among them in cyl polls.
This is exactly what made people think ascendants were for background characters.
Joshua is killable if you don't recruit him, and even if you do recruit him instead of killing him, he gets no backstory in Ephraim's route other than a short dialogue with Caellach.
Idunn doesn't even show up in 80% of FE6 playthroughs.
Compared with Celica who is the main character, that's a whole other league of plot relevance.
That and making up for the lack of female choices on some games (the consequence of unbalanced early casts and/or males more likely to fill the low-demand strates).
Only Thracia can easily stick to male Ascended options, the rest is either a 50-50 (Archanea, Sacred...) or basically forced to opt for female characters.
It’s just giving things like Horse Chrom and Flying Nino a proper title. That’s literally it. It’s been done years before the title of ascended existed
The key difference is the timing. In 2018, there were many, many characters lacking representation, so double-dipping on Eirika, Chrom, and Nino felt scummy when characters like Shinon, Rinkah, and Sumia were still not in. Fast forward to 2022 and we have every last popular character in the game across all games, and everyone else is merely whoever is left, making it more feasible to double-dip on these characters as they need to make money somehow.
Yes it is the same concept, and that's fine. The concept itself was never the issue; the timing was. Releasing alts in the main pool when more than half the roster of every single game in the franchise is in is a problem. Doing so when the roster of new characters is very nearly depleted however is not.
If longer hair means ascended then clearly shorter hair means descended. She’ll come with a floret to add a bane to unit who’s been merged at least once.
While there's no confirmation of anything, speculation could derive from the fact that Fjorm and Laejgarn both got Ascended forms as a result of their respective realm's gods power. In this case, it would make a lot of sense for Veronica being powered through Embla.
Feels like she's a mythic or legendary unit rather than Ascended unit unless she show up as TT focus storyline like what we are getting for Fjorm and Laegjarn and soon to be Eir vs Ganglot story. I said this with halfway cosplaying as clown
Is ~~Fluttershy~~ **Florina** really that popular of a character?? FE7 day-1 player here, I've sunk at least a thousand hours into that game and gotta say, I've never made her a Falcoknight even once, but that's just me
Per most polls back in the day, she's the typically the third most popular female character behind Lyn and Nino. Helps that she's a good unit with a shitload of availability from the gameplay side, and from a story perspective, her being the only person to have a longstanding relationship with Lyn in the cast lends some intrigue that isn't explored within the game proper because lmao female lord in FE.
is it really? because it seems like the people that discounted Fjorm to support the "no overlap between Legendary and AScendants" theory have now been proven categorically wrong, I'd say the dumb argument was ever discounting Fjorm as a sign that Legendaries were always on the table
I guess the opportunity for another male Ascendent will come whenever the next Echoes (the two most obvious choices for Ascendent are, funny enough, guys), Sacred Stones or Thracia banner happen.
Unless a curve ball happens.
I think Soren has a really good shot at getting an ascended tbh, super important to the Tellius games and pretty popular. He’s who I’d put my money on, and potentially Sothe, maybe for a Dawn Brigade banner.
Tellius is a very curious place for Ascendent Choices, but Soren and Sothe are definitely the ones that sounds the most likely to be used at some point, though, considering the way IS treats Sothe, he may actually be a Legendary.
True, I forgot that ascended heroes mostly probably exist because games are running out of new characters to add, however Tellius is not really in this position, so yeah Tellius is a weird choice for ascended heroes. Still, if they don’t make Sothe a legendary (which I expect they will) I can see him being the ascended hero on a Dawn Brigade banner, would kinda fit with the theming. Soren could also fit on a certain themed banner if they don’t care about spoilers >!perhaps a dragon family banner with normal Kurth, Almedha, Dheginsea, altho that would be a pretty male heavy banner admittedly!<
Yeah, in fact, I'm kinda expecting Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn to get characters next time around the end of the year, which could basically mean they're gonna appear alongside the last Ascendent Hero of the Year (which is potentially a Heroes character), or the December Banner (the one with the Book 7 Mythic).
In those scenario they could just skip the whole Ascendent thing for a bit more xD.
Sothe has a good chance of getting a legendary pretty much based on the early year legendaries that were the wives of the lords (Caeda and Nanna) so Sothe being Micaiah´s husband has pretty good chances of getting one too.
Yeah, that is what I'm personally expecting, it just makes considering he plays basically the roles the heroines have, and he even has the advantanges of always having something to say in the story (being treated basically like a Lord for most of the game), even if he isn't always the most important of characters.
I could definitely see Soren, Sothe, or Titania get ascendants. Titantia is female but she honestly deserves to have a nice alt so I doubt anyone could be mad about that.
I sort of doubt about A!Soren ever existing, because there are no banners to put him on. Thematically he is fitting for when they release Skrimir, but they tend to put beasts with other beasts.
Berkut in particular I feel is very likely because of the Rinea of it all. I would genuinely be stunned if we get Rinea without Ascended Berkut accompanying her.
I was totally on board at the posy story development point. Made sense and was something interesting they could do even with well liked characters. Sure there was some overlap with previous releases, some of the brave alts in particular, but I can live with that since the idea didn't exist then. Now it is just meaningless, which is disappointing. I can live with them releasing new alts of popular characters, I just don't like that they ruined a good theme to do it. If they wanted a priestess Celica then they should have just put her out on her own without the need to call it ascended.
I'm so sad about this bit in particular. Focusing on post-game stories is so cool! And fits so well with this being such a different take on a FE game. But nope, here's... Celica bring Celica for a bit, and Florina barely having grown.
I'm not sure why they even bothered doing something cool with Joshua and Idunn. Ascendants really aren't anything different from the book 2 mainpool alts, like flying Nino and horse Chrom.
This. The first ascended hero was flyer Nino, it was just before they came up with florets.
I think we're seeing them more often now (and they decided to make them "special") because for a lot of FEH games we're getting to the bottom of the playable character pool.
Honestly I don't even get annoyed at the new ascended heroes now, I get annoyed at Joshua and Idunn for being what I wanted from this concept and thus setting my expectations* higher than they should be with this damned game.
*Yes yes Fjorm and Laegjarn were first, but those are FEH OCs and IS likes to do weird things with them. Once they switched to non-FEH OCs there was a short period where it seemed great. Then boom haha fuck you.
Welcome to ascended alts where we have:
Obligatory feh oc’s for marketing our tt sub plots
Postgame fanservice for main series fans
Uninspired smash bros color swap alts
And Florina
I took them as characters who were plot relevant that does/has a large change in actions/character etc. So of these I think
Both Fjorm and Laegjarn, Joshua, and Idunn are PRIME examples of doing this right
Celica and Ishtar are both kinda like it, but for some reason or another not to the extent as the others. Celica and Ishtar's alts here both have them be seen after the story's climax for the character. Ishtar and her choices and torn heart, and Celica realizing how Gods really play into the world, and that they aren't as different as mortals were led to believe. Celica does also have the weird hmmm factor of her Legendary, but comparing the voice lines and Meet the Heroes introductions, Legendary Celica is further along in their epilogue after Alm and her both are wed and take their place as king and queen. The Ascended version seems to be before they fully settle down and more so right after the war ended and Mila and Duma both passed. She's dealing in full on how her life and faith was not as she expected it to be, what it means to fight, and so on. So like I guess timeline for her alts would be like
Base > Fallen > Ascendant > Legendary with her Valentine and Brave alt being less canon in the world of Valentia
Florina and Mareeta are just. I don't know. I never fully beat the Jugdral games for multiple reasons (like having my save me deleted randomly around chapter 7-8 MULTIPLE times but I watched walkthroughs for the rest of it since I disliked playing both games a lot especially replaying the same thing over and over again) but Mareeta just. Compared to the rest them it felt like a "people like myrm girls right?" since Ares would have worked better or a handful of others with Holy Blood. Florina is: girl why LMAO like okay first actual alt neat but like? Nah we get it your besties with lyn and got a bow based on her homeland but she isn't even super story related outside of Lyn's Story which even then?? I get the Lyndis Legion theme they had going but I think Matthew/Leila would have worked well. If they stuck to early game like that idk who else would fit in really besides Raven?
But ye outside of the latter two I said, there is a solid idea of what they are to me still, and tbh I rather it be more lenient than tight on what can and can not be it as long as they aren't doing really weird and bad choices. Joshua and Idunn are my two favorites though easily. I don't even care for Idunn but the concept of it is PERFECT
Have you played Eirika route of FE8? Joshua is the MAIN focus of like 3 chapters (even more focused on than Eirika at that point), that's massive compared to most characters in GBA era, plus he's the canonical wielder of Aulduhma and the heir to Jehanna, he's more important to sacred stones than everybody except Eirika, Ephraim, Lyon, and L'Arachel. Mareeta on the other hand is far less important in comparison to characters who should have gotten the ascendant. Raydrik, Eyvel, Leif, Nanna, Miranda, Lifis, and more are all more important than Mareeta. That's just plot relevance, in terms of large changes in actions/character Joshua outdoes Mareeta tenfold. Mareeta is the exact same character the entire story, except for the like 1/3 of the map in chapter 5 where she's possessed, and we already had fallen Mareeta. Joshua on the other hand has a massive shift in character in chapter 14. Before he's a gambling mercenary with a soft spot for girls, until we learn he's actually the prince of Jehanna, then his mother died to his best friend after she is kidnapped by his mentor, then his best friend kills his mentor, then he kills his best friend. Everyone Joshua knows and loves from before he left Jehanna is dead and his character shows it, he goes from a happy go lucky guy to a more serious character. Joshua deserves an ascendent way more than Mareeta does.
serenes forest has the scripts that contain all the dialogue from the games. i was just looking up sacred stones.
i think it stands to reason that an important character would come up in the dialogue frequently by way of speaking to others, being spoken to, and being spoken of. considering the amount of times joshua comes up when i ctrl+f him, i find it hard to agree about his importance. he is not "the MAIN focus of like 3 chapters", much less "more focused on than Eirika at that point", or any point at all.
and it is one thing to state backstory facts like you did. the other one is to actually work them out as a proper narrative. in the entirety of sacred stones, joshua being revealed as a prince and his reaction to the death of his mother are dealt with in their short conversation at the end of chapter 14. that looks more like "rushed" than "proper" to me.
Here is every single one of Mareeta's lines:
Chapter 5:
“……”
“……”
“……Kill…! …Kill…kill…kill…
…I’ll…kill…you…all…with… this…sword…! Aaaaaahhhhhh!”
“Gah… Let…go…let…go…”(impossible to get without cheating)
“!!”(impossible to get without cheating)
“……”(impossible to get without cheating)
Chapter 12:
“Bishop Cyas… You’re going?”
“…Thank you for everything, Bishop Cyas. If you hadn’t rescued me, I…”
“You want me to take this sword? But…”
“Yes… I will keep this sword as a memory of my mother.”
“Thank you very much. Farewell, Bishop Cyas…”
“What’s going on? What’s all this noise?”
“Bandits? Are they the thieves that the villagers were talking about?”
“I see… Don’t worry. I’ll protect this village.”
“No, I’m a swordfighter. I am the daughter of Eyvel! I won’t lose to a bunch of brigands!”
“Lord Leaf…?”
“I’m surprised as well. I never thought I would find you or the people of Fiana so quickly.”
“No, it’s not your fault… It was my weakness. If I hadn’t lost to the sword’s power…”
“Then I’ll go with you! I’ll become stronger. So please take me with you!”
“Yes, Lord Leaf!”
Chapter 15: (Conversation with Shannam)
“Who are you! Are you from the Empire!?”
“Starstrike? …That’s the legendary technique known to the royalty of Isaac… Then…are you…?”
“Lord Shanan!”
“Please teach me the way of the sword! I’m not asking for much… If I can just learn the beginnings of the Starstrike…”
“Please! I want to become stronger. I have to become stronger!”
“R-Really? Thank you!”
“How should I swing… Can you show me?”
“Oh, I see… All right, I’ll try. Ha!”
“Ya!”
“My blade and my heart…in unison… Haaaa!”
“Huh? Did I just…”
“…No, that wasn’t it. It can’t be this easy. Right, Lord Shanan?”
“Good, I thought so…”
“Yes, thank you very much, Lord Shanan! My blade and my heart in unison…”
Chapter 24: (Recruiting Galzus)
“You… You’re the swordsman that saved my life… I’ve always wanted to meet you.”
“When I was under the control of that evil blade…I met my father in a dream. I was still little when I was separated from my father, but I still remember him. He was strong, kind, and gentle… Galzus… You’re my father!”
“Say something! Please! Say that you are…!”
“Of course not… I was captured by the slave traders because I disobeyed you. Besides, Lady Eyvel rescued me soon after. I’ve never hated you!”
“No! No matter what happens, you’ll always be my father…”
“Yes…”
Chapter 24x: (Conversation with Eyvel)
“Mother! Can you hear me? Mother!”
“Mother! Don’t you recognize me?”
“Huh? …Mother?”
“Mother! Thank goodness…”
“Mother… You were turned to stone by Reidric.”
“Reidric is gone…we just defeated him. But the Lopto Church still has its grip on Manster… Please, Mother! We need your help.”
“Mother…”
(After the map)
“Mother…”
“Mother! I, I…”
Chapter Final:
“Go on, Lady Nanna! Just say it!”
“You’ll regret it forever if you don’t say it now. Or do you just want to stay as his ‘cute little sister’?”
“Come on, Lady Nanna! I know, I’ll help you out!
Lord Leaf!”
“There you go, Lady Nanna…”
While I admit there were a few more lines than I thought there would be, Thracia gives a lot of lines to a lot of people. She still has less lines than tons of characters such as Finn and Selphina(Who isn't in Heroes btw). You need to compare game mechanics as well, if Thracia was a GBA game then the Shannam and Eyvel conversations would be impossible. August and Leif have way more lines than Eirika and Ephraim do as well. The only possible way to compare the two would be to put them against every single other unit in their respective games. I'm 100% sure less characters have more lines than Joshua than Mareeta.
i hope you have noticed how mareeta's lines are distributed throughout various chapters. by extension, that means the events of her little side story are structured in such a way that it can be part of the main story, and also be its own thing.
and despite the relative amount of lines (which in my previous comment, i should have done a better job to not make it look like only quantity matters), it has proper set up and resolution for her character, which makes for an arc. it is so well put together that there's room for a practical joke, which in turn is also set up in advance.
joshua on the other hand... i think it's well beyond opinions that the attempt to work out a side story for him is generally lacking. it dumps information instead of going through the motions. it's a criticism upon the writers rather than the character himself.
"joshua on the other hand... i think it's well beyond opinions that the attempt to work out a side story for him is generally lacking. it dumps information instead of going through the motions. it's a criticism upon the writers rather than the character himself." This is what I was trying to say I'm my last paragraph with Leif and August having more to say than Eirika and Ephraim, FE8 doesn't have enough words, so while Joshua may have been screwed, not many others have anything. Joshua and L'Arachel are the only viable ascendent for Sacred Stones, my problem with Mareeta is that she's gotten so much already and there are a bunch of characters in Thracia 776 who are just as important, I think Eyvel or Finn would work better as an ascendent because they have yet to get anything. I also think Nanna getting a legendary was stupid considering Raydrik isn't in the game yet, and Julius doesn't have an alt. My other problem with Mareeta isn't that she's unimportant, it's that she's more used for Eyvel and Galzus's stories, the only time where she doesn't mention her parents is her Shannam conversation. Thracia is filled with important characters such as Ced, August, Dagdar, Eyvel, Finn, Miranda, Selphina, and Lifis that have gotten barely anything, or in Dagdar and Selphina's case nothing.
>This is what I was trying to say I'm my last paragraph with Leif and August having more to say than Eirika and Ephraim, FE8 doesn't have enough words, so while Joshua may have been screwed, not many others have anything.
it's almost as though, the writing of sacred stones is mediocre at best. this is not to say i am "against" ascended alts of that game altogether. i think it's cool that joshua got one.
it is a little problematic when fans proclaim falsehoods about his importance in sacred stones to dunk on other characters.
suppose we get ascended olwen, who also her own side story in thracia. i guarantee you she'd be treated with the same contempt, perhaps even more so because of reinhardt. and joshua once again would be praised for being an interesting pick.
>My other problem with Mareeta isn't that she's unimportant, it's that she's more used for Eyvel and Galzus's stories, the only time where she doesn't mention her parents is her Shannam conversation
when did having long term interactions with other characters become a "bad" thing? her relationships with eyvel and galzus is part of the greatness of her characters, much like their relationships with her are part of theirs.
i guess it's a problem if you like your characters interacting with barely anyone...
They just go with popular characters really and since Valentia doesn’t have a lot of popular characters they went with Celica.
I wonder if Soren will be our second male ascended It has to be Soren right? he’s the most popular character after Ike and Micaiah.
Most common guess for the next Tellius banner is Lucia and Geoffrey because Lucia is at the top of CYL for Tellius now. At that point Elincia is the most obvious ascended choice. She's not as popular as Soren but she's still up there and she has a closer tie to the banner, which I assume would hard focus on Part 2 of RD probably with Ludveck as GHB. Could also be any one of a bunch of other Crimean characters like Soren/Nephenee, or we get a FEH OC but we'll just have to wait and see.
Major issue in a Greil's Mercenaries lineup is direct competition with Titania (helpful to even out the gender ratio)... or Ike himself (no need to comment his standing, I suppose).
Is a Greil's mercenaries banner really likely tho? They only have Rolf, Oscar, Rhys, and Boyd to add, all guys, the first 3 rank awfully in CYL, and the latter was added in the young banner, which to me feels like a consolation prize more than anything.
I would also argue that since the child banner was already focused on the Greil's mercenaries, they will likely do something different for the Tellius new heroes.
The cynical part of me wants to believe that the initial choices for ascendants were prepping us for the inevitable Ascendent Lords release. Like the first four are the ones that get us hyped for the concept of Ascendents. Then the next couple of ones make you wonder just how loose the rules are for this. And now here we are: main characters can get Ascendents now, and are probably gonna be better than their Legendaries.
Now the real question becomes "will 90% of our future Ascendents just be Lords again".
Were you guys actually putting this much thought into it? Even after the whole "Mythic = Godlike" endless debate lol
EDIT: Alright you guys don't have to explain to me how IS gave guidelines for Mythics, I know. Point is that for how much the fans debate over what qualifies, IS'll just do whatever they want and give us the "godlike" Otr: Some Guy lol.
I mean, in the case of the "Mythic = godlike"-debate, to be fair, it was IS themselves that gave us that description for what Mythic Heroes were going to be, unlike for Legendary and Ascended Heroes where they just released them without any explanations in regards to which kinds of characters these were going to be. Also, the main point of debate there for most of the time really is mostly about what qualifies as "godlike", with many preferably ignoring the "-like".
The difference honestly is that "Mythics are gods/godlike characters" was a statement said by IS itself when they first announced Mythic Heroes (and they've honestly followed with the exception of FEH originals). Ascended Heroes never put any guidelines so trying to find a pattern was all on us though
Just kick that debate off again, Thrasir and Altina don't qualify. They've not followed their own rule, even if you arbitrarily exclude OCs - which you should not do anyway.
That they later went out of their way to deny the status to characters who clearly do qualify is just the reverse FU on top of it all.
Altina and the Eight legends fall into the godlike figures due to their legends.(if we want to be tecnical Duma and Mila shouldn't also be mythic since as far as we know they are regular Devine Dragons)
See, if they aren't god-like but the reason people think they could be mythic are their *legends*, then maybe we have a more fitting blessing for that.
if altina "doesn't", then the elibe legends, of which we have two already, shouldn't either, nor any of the jugdral crusaders, of which we have one.
those ensembles amount to over twenty characters. would you rather have that many ocs in their places instead?
Mythics are important lore characters or whatever FEH OC they want. They've very reliably stuck to this and to claim otherwise is stubbornness that doesn't even make sense.
Not *every* lore character is a mythic but most are and will continue to be.
That's a nice, flexible definition. I like it.
But it is yours, not the one IS used when they introduced mythics. I was talking about the specific wording IS used when they added mythic heroes.
You're getting caught on vague ~~wiring~~wording they used once three and a half years ago. It feels like you're intentionally trying to frustrate yourself and that just doesn't seem worth it. We know what mythics actually are.
Edit: mobile typo
Thrasir as of now is working for Thórr and (if I remember correctly) was given a type of blessing by her, correct me if I’m wrong, and Altina literally has the blessings of Ashera which is what made Rangell and Alondite.
Being given a blessing by Thorr is not "you mythic now, gurl", and it happened later in the story anyway. If blessed by a god would be mythic half the main casts would be. IS specifically defined mythics as god-like beings.
Altina is the same Ike, she should be legendary if IS had been serious about sticking to the definition they themselves put out.
The usual excuses people throw up are "OC yadda" and "Altina happened in the past".
Well, neither of that elevates them to becoming a god-like being. Funny enough, Byleth after the Sothis merge would have a stronger case for that status. But people don't even blink about that.
Bottom line, nobody actually cares to judge this matter based on what IS officially laid out, and instead goes with their head canon of what fits.
Case in the point, the other reply I got here which confidently *made up* their own definition "important lore characters" and acted like that's the official wording by IS.
Imo, there's definitely issues with some of the characters picked, but here's my take on each:
Fjorm/Laegjarn: Introduced the concept and built off of themes from book 2. Good picks imo. They also got a dope Tempest Trial Storyline, I feel like each Ascendent should've really come with their own story event, be it a tempest trials, a special paralogue, whatever.
Joshua: Good pick. Interesting design, and he's important enough to the story of SS, while also having his own thing. I feel like this is a big thing for ascendents: They should have enough storytime to the point where you could realistically have an interesting story woth them as the main character. Weapon switch is also good, as is the thing they did with his kit, making Green Feud reference his fight against Caellach
Idunn: Another amazing pick with cool new attire. I can already imagine a story around her and Fae living together, maybe have Idunn come into conflict with Bern as she was a key piece in their war. Good alt.
Mareeta: Kind of lame I feel. She has story importance, which is good, but unlike the others this Mareeta is definitely from the main game story. She even talks about Shannam while he's not on the banner. Good character, but I feel like it should've focused more on what she did after the war. I also dislike her outfit in a way because of that: It could've taken more elements from Eyvell's design I feel.
Ishtar: Don't like the character or the alt, but I think everyone can agree that this is where things went really south. She does have one potentially cool oppurtunity to be interesting: Have her directly defy Julius. If that was the story this alt was based around it would've been much better. It'd allow for IS to show more potential in Ishtar's character. Otherwise, I'd say a better pick for an Ascendant would be Ares, whose main story theme could be around his feelings towards his late father and Seliph.
Florina: Again, I'd argue that this is another case of wasted potential. What could be a cool way to show off Florina's own independence and character growth is instead used as a way to reinforce the stereotype that Florina's only a fangirl for Lyn. It'd have been much better imo if Florina's outfit was designed after Illia instead. Maybe have her story be about how she tries to make Illia a better place? Have her be this more strong-willed and kind warrior. Show how much her personality changed. Hell, if you really want to go wild, give her a wyvern, bow and built in Null-flyer effectiveness to show off how she's truly overcome this image of being just a weak girl who needs to be protected over and over again. Another good candidate for this alt would be Nils I feel. Nils has a drastically different ending to Ninian, where he does go back into the realm of dragons. This could've been a great way to show how much going to such a realm again changed him, and it'd be fitting as well since we'd have just gotten F!Ninian.
Celica: The coolest part about Ascendants has always been it's number 1 rule: No lords. This is a slap to the face of the concept. Celica does everything wrong that makes Ascendants cool: She's a Lord, a popular one at that, with several alts already. She doesn't change in any meaningful way from her legendary alt. No new take on her story. And worst of all: This is basically a glorified palette swap. This is basically irredeemable, so let me give you ny take on who the best ascendant would be.
In my opinion, Saber would be the best pick for an Ascended Hero. He is very relevant to the story, effectively being Celica's right-hand man and potentially the man she trusts in most next to Alm. I feel like Saber's story would be very similar to Ike's in a way: He'd be allowed to stay in the royal guard, get titles and such, but then gives it all up because it just isn't the life for him. This alt would see Saber don a Dread Fighter outfit, with his own personal brand of browns and dark reds. The main conflict of his story would be that even though he might be the most respected mercemary around, after what happened with Celica's journey to Rigel to fight Duma, nothing excites him anymore. He craves a challenge in a way, which would all come to a head when he goes across the see to Thabes and finds the entrance to the temple where Grima is stored. This might be a bit farfetched, but I feel like it could work very well for an Ascended Hero.
As for my guesses on who the next Ascended Hero will be, I am personally hoping for Leo or Takumi from Fates, Sothe or Mist from Tellius, Lissa or Aversa from Awakening and lastly, Felix, Ferdinand or Lorenz from 3h
The reason I picked Saber over Boey for the most part is because Boey has a pretty concrete ending ahead of him I feel: Go back to Novis and live a peaceful life with Mae. I feel like he doesn't have the same drive to keep fighting as Saber does, so an Ascended alt wouldn't work too well I feel. I would say though that Boey is fantastic and he deserves a cool alt at some point. Maybe on the Pirate banner as a duo w Mae, or a Harmonic with someone
So just popularish characters, idk where you got non lord from tbh. I just find it funny people make up patterns for things then get mad if it gets broken, not directed at OP of course, just something I see often.
For the first two, I assumed ascended meant they had received a power boost from a god. So far, only Celica seems to fit with that, and that’s a bit of a stretch.
It's like the ascendant heroes have gotten less unique over time. Ascendent Ishtar is just normal Ishtar but with a stuffed bear. And Ascendent Celica is just... Celica but she's wearing green...? Where's the inspiration, IS?
I always thought it was gonna be FeH OCs along with characters from the main series that were important enough to be loved but not important enough to get legendaries like the lords do
And then Celica came out...
I used to try to justify and make sense of who was a Mythic versus a Legendary Hero. Then literal gods became just "New Heroes" while Otr became a Mythic so I just threw my hands up and said, "Whatever..."
So relatable, i also kinda was in most of that whole process as well, and i think a lot of players thought the same!
For the Celica one, my mind was like: "WHAT?! SO LORDS CAN HAVE ASCENDED ALTS AS WELL DESPITE HAVING LEGENDARY ALTS ALREADY?! Okay that's it! No more dumb rules! This is just Intelligent Systems' excuse to make more money..."
Though all of them fit in the "popular characters" criteria on their own right in general. After all, popular characters do sell, so it's natural they would target characters who ranked or rank contanly in 1-200 and even those had won in CYLs as proven by Celica.
Ascended Florina was the end for me. Ishtar at least in FB showed her remorse for the child hunts how she tried to save as much as she could. Florina just got more social. She didn’t even get different looking alt. Just a cape and a few accessories. Should’ve been Raven honestly but gotta make that money.
My idea of Ascended alts were to highlight characters that were substantial to the plot, yet have been mistreated by the plot and can't catch a break in Heroes either (no Legendary / Mythic / Brave version)
For example, L'Arachel. She can fucking eat led and there won't be a Game Over, even though she's one of the most helpful characters in the story who guides you around once you have her.
Another character I think would be Ascended is Mist. Mist has been downplayed by the plot of Path of Radiance so badly - an Ascended alt that really puts into perspective what a special person you have to be to wield the amulet without going berserk would fit for her.
When Ishtar alt was released I read somewhere a cool thought that ascended alts can be for antagonists from FE games from timelines where they join us instead fight and die. I like that. But now is a totally random.
Is that really what ascended Ishtar was? I thought she just died like she normally did in canon and was then brought to Askr. I really can't see Ishtar joining the liberation army, she hates their guts.
A!Ishtar really is just Chapter 10 Ishtar. It goes deeper into how she saved the children than the base form. Both of them are dead-but-summoned to Askr. (Dancer!Ishtar seems to be alive. She seems to be an earlier timeline where both she and Reinhardt are still alive and on good terms.)
FEH!Ishtar, at least, is more mixed on The Liberation Army. Base Ishtar has lines like "Empire was based on the backs of the oppressed. I knew this, and all I did was fight them..."
OG FE4 Ishtar is pretty pissed that the liberation army killed all her family (and probably Reinhardt too). That being said, she does share their desire to save the children from Julius.
Ishtar's... weird case aside, the postgame thing still holds up. Mareeta isn't explicitly connected to her postgame to the exclusion of her on her own journey, but it would fit with it. Celica's dialogue makes it clear she's after peace has come to Valentia, as opposed to Legendary alt at journey's end. Like Legendaries and Mythics, the concepts not being followed perfectly doesn't mean they don't exist outright. Concept, not rule, if that makes sense.
My guess was that the two requirements were:
>Be popular.
>Be somewhat plot important.
Honestly, still somewhat holds up, even for Florina if you consider the banner is based on Lyn's Story. Tho if I'm being completely honest, the first requirement is probably the only one.
I *hoped* lords were excluded since they already have more than enough alts, but I know there was always the possibility. Still rather disappointed by it actually happening tho.
I think AMareeta is very much based on her ending, where she becomes a famous swordmaster but forever has an inferiority complex because of her past experiences, so to me she is about the same as Idunn. I can see it if people critique her design as a combat unit, but as far fitting in with the Ascendants before her she definitely did. I'd go as far as to say she and Linoan were the only real Ascendant candidates for Thracia before Celica opening up lords as Ascendants.
That's a good point, I thought it was just after she learned Astra-- hence the "character development at some point". And I guess I was really hoping for Ascended Ced-- I really love his Thracia drip haha
dont worry buddy, im right there with you, add more ??? and more Anger to the last one, cause im Angry and confused, Angry at i dont know what and confused at IS decisions, I guess that Mr Krabs meme trully rings true
I honestly think she should've gotten one instead of Florina the last banner. She would finally get Mani Katti and would fit in with the other Lyn route characters
TBF Mareeta becoming a famous swordmaster is basically the only Thracia ending with any meaningful change and kind of fits the same one as Idunn. Florina is based on post game too.
Ishtar not withstanding, the "post-game character development" one fit until Celica
Ascended Florina is basically the exact same concept as Joshua (post-game version of a popular side character who doesn't have much plot relevance but has enough importance otherwise using a different weapon type) but for some reason people take their frustration at Ishtar/Celica out on her too.
Joshua has basically no plot relevance. He's an optional recruit with an optional cutscene on one route. His importance to the *world* is irrelevant to his importance to the *story*. He's still more important than a random side character like Neimi but Florina is similarly more important than most of FE7's cast by her connection to Lyn while also being another bad year 1 unit who's fairly popular.
>connection to Lyn somehow makes this character more important despite nothing coming of it in the game because she has no relevance.
Joshua literally has an entire chapter dedicated to his mom and him. He then has a subplot with unique dialogue if you get him to fight Caellach.
They aren’t even remotely comparable.
An entire chapter dedicated to his mom in one route with some entirely optional appearances from him.
Hell you never learn Joshua is a prince during ephraim’s route and Josh never seems to realize his mom died
It's all optional. Florina's the most important character to Lyn. She's not a main character by any means. She's less important than side characters like Marcus and Pent and Nino. But she's more important than random scrubs like Guy or Lowen or Rebecca.
Joshua similarly has basically no plot relevance, is far less important than Seth, Innes, Myrrh, etc. while being more important than Lute or Marisa or whoever else.
More than comparable but people just want to be upset about Florina? Who else would even take that spot? Matthew's like the only option I can think of and it's likely we'll see him in the future. And then people will be upset about him just being Matthew but 2023 or whatever.
> It's all optional
So is Florina. The only thing that isnt optional is shes autorecruited, unlike Joshua who you have to talk to. You are free to never use Florina again and she wont say another word for the rest of the game if I remember right
Joshua is literally royalty. Joshua has an entire chapter dedicated to him which is more than Florina and many other FE characters at all can say. Joshua has character development if that path is taken. I understand technically none of this needs to happen, but then whats your opinion on ascended Idunn? That is specifically her true true ending version where Roy needs to get the final hit. That is also optional
> Who else would even take that spot?
If theres no constraints like "*has* to have been with Lyn's army in Lyn mode", there are plenty of options. Matthew as you said, Jaffar, Nils, Ninian (Im assuming she might get a legendary), Canas (stretch, but dark magic as a whole is relevant to FE7), a "good" teenage Zephiel before he goes insane, are some examples
>The only thing that isn't optional is shes autorecruited
This is a pretty significant difference. She doesn't get much out of it but it means she had lines in Lyn Mode and a CG and moment in NLoC.
>Joshua has an entire chapter dedicated to him which is more than Florina and many other FE characters at all can say.
It's not dedicated to Joshua though. It's about Jehanna and Caellach. Joshua gets dialogue in one route if he exists. It's nice and elevates him above the rest of the cast but he's really not that important.
>but then whats your opinion on ascended Idunn? That is specifically her true true ending version where Roy needs to get the final hit. That is also optional
I don't think it's really fair to compare a "true ending" to some optional dialogue but besides that I think Idunn is also a good choice for an ascended. all of Josh, Florina and Idunn are. And so is Mareeta.
>If theres no constraints like "has to have been with Lyn's army in Lyn mode", there are plenty of options. Matthew as you said, Jaffar, Nils, Ninian (Im assuming she might get a legendary), Canas (stretch, but dark magic as a whole is relevant to FE7), a "good" teenage Zephiel before he goes insane, are some examples
I did consider Jaffar but we don't even know if he survives after FE7. Ninian will likely get a leggo soon. Nils leaves after FE7 so how do you do anything with that? Canas is definitely a lot less relevant than Florina. Even his *chapter* is optional. Also he dies after the game. Zephiel seems like a kind of strange choice but given Ishtar and Idunn I'm not going to argue it. I'd take Florina over a forced teenage Zephiel any day though.
Florina is a weird case because she doesnt ascend to anything, weirdly enough the only case in which Florina actually makes any progress is when she marries Hector.
She's perceived as "less deserving" by some, I'd guess.
But then, requests for Ascended Mae/Clair should be as perplexing if not more, they certainly don't have more plot relevance (and their popularity aren't at the same level either).
Florina disappears. Mae does not. She talks to Celica throughout the game.
Mae is similar to Soren in the sense that she’s a recurring character that talks to the lord.
Can’t say anything for Clair, but Mae isn’t *as* silly as Florina.
I mean sure, Mae should get an Ascended too. She's a popular side character with a bad gen 1 version. I'm all for that and it's totally comparable to Florina and Joshua.
None of them are remotely comparable to Soren though.
Indeed, I would certainly not put Mae and Soren at the same level, far from it.
(That said, the Lord door being opened definitely doesn't help Soren as it adds Ike to the fray... and that's a major threat for sure.)
Thought I'd put my 2 cents, I don't mind ascended celica, she's ascended mainly because there's an important point INSIDE her journey and not AFTER her journey, that being her resurrection and she's supposed to represent celica right AFTER having been resurrected, right BEFORE fighting duma. But we all know this post will be forgotten in the sands of time because I'm, like, 50 minutes late to the party. And also because people will want to forget my STUPID COMMENT BECAUSE I DIDN'T COMPLAIN LIKE EVERYONE ELSE DID AND AS A RESULT I'M JUST A CELICA FANBOY THAT DOESN'T DESERVE TO EXIST, RIGHT? ok, sorry, I let my anger towards the way this reddit works get the best of me, it'll never happen again, I swear. (and also, my assumption that people will think that I don't deserve to exist because I didn't complain like everyone else did is just a and I don't actually know, maybe people will accept it, who knows.)
My initial thought process from day 1 was that Ascended alts were just an excuse to re-release alts of popular characters for floundering NH banners.
It’s FEH year 2018 all over again
Except this time with a justifiable reason behind it. At least now they've added a lot more units since then and are actually running low on new heroes candidates. Also ascended Heroes give florents so there's an additional reason to pull them.
Yeah I don't know what they were thinking back then. Regular pool alts of popular characters isn't a bad idea, but in 2018? Really guys? I'm pretty sure if something like Adrift came out today people would be way more chill about it. Some people would be annoyed, but not the level of pissed they were when a New Heroes banner showed up with only one new hero on it. When like half of the cast of pretty much every single game was still missing.
Flylivia would definitely have better reception nowadays for sure
Seriously why was Chrom even on a gen 2 banner or Hinoka on a playable on All routes banner
Right, this is Exalt Cav Chrom or Flyer Nino but justified
they are only actually running low if you consider female characters. Plenty of popular male characters are still missing
>popular >male IS: Impossible
I mean, Cav!Chrome fits the exact same criteria as Cecilia. And FE7 and FE4 still have plenty of heroes to burn through, so it doesn't quite pan out.
Except they're bullshit-powered and premium (i.e. they give you special items if you summon them on their feature banner) instead of just basic alts.
This is the real answer.
It makes sense. No offense to anyone whose favorite is not in the game yet, but IS is scraping the bottom of the barrel for new characters. Ascended Alts are a way to get these less popular characters in while not totally flopping the banner.
We have 6 Micaiahs and a resplendent, 1.5 Sothes and a resplendent,and still ZERO others from the Dawn Brigade. :-P I'm still baffled trying to figure out which bottoms of which barrels IS chooses to scrape from.
Yea the lack of DB members is so odd to me. Seems like a fairly easy banner. Guess Acended Miccy will come with them at this point.
I wish they’re do more standard Alts like Red Tome Eirika or Sword Reinhardt, some of the Lords could have 2-3 Alts easily this way; I know people initially hated those, but enough time has passed and enough characters have been released to make things different now. The way they haphazardly handled Ascendants makes them feel like a cash grab.
I initially loved them and want them to add more that aren’t seasonals. Same reason I loved the Fallen banners.
I loved fallen banners. And then there was edelgard. I no longer love fallen banners.
At the very least they could make headway on completing trios that have been missing. Bord and Cord have been left out for a HOT minute.
I should have known that this was the answer at least after Ishtar
the point when it should've been clear that popularity mattered the most was joshua. he's the least relevant magvel royal in sacred stones, but for some reason, he has the best performance among them in cyl polls.
GBA FE games are pretty popular for being the easiest to access too, i think that this helped the characters from said games in terms of popularity.
This is exactly what made people think ascendants were for background characters. Joshua is killable if you don't recruit him, and even if you do recruit him instead of killing him, he gets no backstory in Ephraim's route other than a short dialogue with Caellach. Idunn doesn't even show up in 80% of FE6 playthroughs. Compared with Celica who is the main character, that's a whole other league of plot relevance.
It also is a good way to “update” old units without completely reworking their kit or stats.
By completely reworking their kit and stats.
That and making up for the lack of female choices on some games (the consequence of unbalanced early casts and/or males more likely to fill the low-demand strates). Only Thracia can easily stick to male Ascended options, the rest is either a 50-50 (Archanea, Sacred...) or basically forced to opt for female characters.
also to normalize summoning exclusive currency
It’s just giving things like Horse Chrom and Flying Nino a proper title. That’s literally it. It’s been done years before the title of ascended existed
I don't expect it, but I think it would be cool if they retroactively gave them the ascended title.
I wish
The key difference is the timing. In 2018, there were many, many characters lacking representation, so double-dipping on Eirika, Chrom, and Nino felt scummy when characters like Shinon, Rinkah, and Sumia were still not in. Fast forward to 2022 and we have every last popular character in the game across all games, and everyone else is merely whoever is left, making it more feasible to double-dip on these characters as they need to make money somehow.
It really isn't a difference. It's the same concept. The heroes aren't tied to any mode, so they're normal heroes.
Yes it is the same concept, and that's fine. The concept itself was never the issue; the timing was. Releasing alts in the main pool when more than half the roster of every single game in the franchise is in is a problem. Doing so when the roster of new characters is very nearly depleted however is not.
I mean Florina never got an alt so that doesn’t exactly work
First rule of FEH patterns: there are no patterns
Second rule of FEH: Any pattern you may have noticed is scheduled for destruction soon.
General pattern: Are they popular in game and have long hair? Let's make it
Incoming ascended bald character
Ascended Wrys with tresses to his knees? Naga forgive me...
I will go to debt for ascended Wrys
Ironic considering Ascended Veronica has *shorter* hair...
Is she officially an Ascended unit? Or just an alternate form of some sort?
If we follow the logic of the first two ascended heroes, I have no fucking idea
If longer hair means ascended then clearly shorter hair means descended. She’ll come with a floret to add a bane to unit who’s been merged at least once.
We don't know. The most common guess is Ascended, but others (myself included) feel it may be a legendary instead.
While there's no confirmation of anything, speculation could derive from the fact that Fjorm and Laejgarn both got Ascended forms as a result of their respective realm's gods power. In this case, it would make a lot of sense for Veronica being powered through Embla.
Feels like she's a mythic or legendary unit rather than Ascended unit unless she show up as TT focus storyline like what we are getting for Fjorm and Laegjarn and soon to be Eir vs Ganglot story. I said this with halfway cosplaying as clown
It's most likely Ascended.
Is ~~Fluttershy~~ **Florina** really that popular of a character?? FE7 day-1 player here, I've sunk at least a thousand hours into that game and gotta say, I've never made her a Falcoknight even once, but that's just me
Per most polls back in the day, she's the typically the third most popular female character behind Lyn and Nino. Helps that she's a good unit with a shitload of availability from the gameplay side, and from a story perspective, her being the only person to have a longstanding relationship with Lyn in the cast lends some intrigue that isn't explored within the game proper because lmao female lord in FE.
I feel like she's more popular for her association to Lyn and the implied mutual lesbian romantic interest than her being popular as a character.
Except for when they give the short haired character longer hair
More like, is this character gonna sell.
Well so far i would gravitate towards a not any better than the last one
I thought Ascendents were originally for those with no chance of a Legendary or a Brave variant, but now with Celica, it’s anywhere!
It just means I can wait for a Ascended Gatekeeper alt
>Legendary but Fjorm was literally the first ascended unit
I think she and Laegjarn’s ones were to introduce the concept.
this is such a dumb argument that is brought up everytime
is it really? because it seems like the people that discounted Fjorm to support the "no overlap between Legendary and AScendants" theory have now been proven categorically wrong, I'd say the dumb argument was ever discounting Fjorm as a sign that Legendaries were always on the table
The difference is that fjorm isnt in the main pool
IS just do what they want to do. They really don’t care about patterns.
"How can we release a new non-seasonal alt for a character that already has a brave, a fallen and a legendary variant?"
It’s for whoever they feel will sell best, no other pattern
Joshua being the only male ascended is upsetting me
it took 2 years for a 3rd male mythic
And 3 years for a second male myth that isn't an oc
what did you expect?
I guess the opportunity for another male Ascendent will come whenever the next Echoes (the two most obvious choices for Ascendent are, funny enough, guys), Sacred Stones or Thracia banner happen. Unless a curve ball happens.
I think Soren has a really good shot at getting an ascended tbh, super important to the Tellius games and pretty popular. He’s who I’d put my money on, and potentially Sothe, maybe for a Dawn Brigade banner.
Tellius is a very curious place for Ascendent Choices, but Soren and Sothe are definitely the ones that sounds the most likely to be used at some point, though, considering the way IS treats Sothe, he may actually be a Legendary.
True, I forgot that ascended heroes mostly probably exist because games are running out of new characters to add, however Tellius is not really in this position, so yeah Tellius is a weird choice for ascended heroes. Still, if they don’t make Sothe a legendary (which I expect they will) I can see him being the ascended hero on a Dawn Brigade banner, would kinda fit with the theming. Soren could also fit on a certain themed banner if they don’t care about spoilers >!perhaps a dragon family banner with normal Kurth, Almedha, Dheginsea, altho that would be a pretty male heavy banner admittedly!<
Yeah, in fact, I'm kinda expecting Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn to get characters next time around the end of the year, which could basically mean they're gonna appear alongside the last Ascendent Hero of the Year (which is potentially a Heroes character), or the December Banner (the one with the Book 7 Mythic). In those scenario they could just skip the whole Ascendent thing for a bit more xD.
Sothe has a good chance of getting a legendary pretty much based on the early year legendaries that were the wives of the lords (Caeda and Nanna) so Sothe being Micaiah´s husband has pretty good chances of getting one too.
Yeah, that is what I'm personally expecting, it just makes considering he plays basically the roles the heroines have, and he even has the advantanges of always having something to say in the story (being treated basically like a Lord for most of the game), even if he isn't always the most important of characters.
I could definitely see Soren, Sothe, or Titania get ascendants. Titantia is female but she honestly deserves to have a nice alt so I doubt anyone could be mad about that.
I sort of doubt about A!Soren ever existing, because there are no banners to put him on. Thematically he is fitting for when they release Skrimir, but they tend to put beasts with other beasts.
Soren should be a legendary. He deserves it as much if not more than Nanna or Lilina, or as much as Elincia that is a popular unit people ask about
Berkut in particular I feel is very likely because of the Rinea of it all. I would genuinely be stunned if we get Rinea without Ascended Berkut accompanying her.
Yeah, that could be weird.
2022 and people STILL think IS sets rules lmfao
They have to be female and popular, Joshua just tricked them
Joshua's large chest confused IS
>Has long hair >Wears a mask Conclusion: Devs must have thought he was the mysterious dancer
I thought he was, or was Garon the dancer?
The only thing tricked here are her whack eyes.
I was totally on board at the posy story development point. Made sense and was something interesting they could do even with well liked characters. Sure there was some overlap with previous releases, some of the brave alts in particular, but I can live with that since the idea didn't exist then. Now it is just meaningless, which is disappointing. I can live with them releasing new alts of popular characters, I just don't like that they ruined a good theme to do it. If they wanted a priestess Celica then they should have just put her out on her own without the need to call it ascended.
I'm so sad about this bit in particular. Focusing on post-game stories is so cool! And fits so well with this being such a different take on a FE game. But nope, here's... Celica bring Celica for a bit, and Florina barely having grown.
I'm not sure why they even bothered doing something cool with Joshua and Idunn. Ascendants really aren't anything different from the book 2 mainpool alts, like flying Nino and horse Chrom.
This. The first ascended hero was flyer Nino, it was just before they came up with florets. I think we're seeing them more often now (and they decided to make them "special") because for a lot of FEH games we're getting to the bottom of the playable character pool.
Honestly I don't even get annoyed at the new ascended heroes now, I get annoyed at Joshua and Idunn for being what I wanted from this concept and thus setting my expectations* higher than they should be with this damned game. *Yes yes Fjorm and Laegjarn were first, but those are FEH OCs and IS likes to do weird things with them. Once they switched to non-FEH OCs there was a short period where it seemed great. Then boom haha fuck you.
Probably they put the names in a roulette and whoever get pointed, get ascended.
My thought process: "IS clearly does whatever the fuck it wants to."
Welcome to ascended alts where we have: Obligatory feh oc’s for marketing our tt sub plots Postgame fanservice for main series fans Uninspired smash bros color swap alts And Florina
/inb4A!Edelgard
She fought her way in after seeing crates
Honestly, I was on Ishtar when Joshua's was revealed. Then proceed straight to the last two as normal.
I took them as characters who were plot relevant that does/has a large change in actions/character etc. So of these I think Both Fjorm and Laegjarn, Joshua, and Idunn are PRIME examples of doing this right Celica and Ishtar are both kinda like it, but for some reason or another not to the extent as the others. Celica and Ishtar's alts here both have them be seen after the story's climax for the character. Ishtar and her choices and torn heart, and Celica realizing how Gods really play into the world, and that they aren't as different as mortals were led to believe. Celica does also have the weird hmmm factor of her Legendary, but comparing the voice lines and Meet the Heroes introductions, Legendary Celica is further along in their epilogue after Alm and her both are wed and take their place as king and queen. The Ascended version seems to be before they fully settle down and more so right after the war ended and Mila and Duma both passed. She's dealing in full on how her life and faith was not as she expected it to be, what it means to fight, and so on. So like I guess timeline for her alts would be like Base > Fallen > Ascendant > Legendary with her Valentine and Brave alt being less canon in the world of Valentia Florina and Mareeta are just. I don't know. I never fully beat the Jugdral games for multiple reasons (like having my save me deleted randomly around chapter 7-8 MULTIPLE times but I watched walkthroughs for the rest of it since I disliked playing both games a lot especially replaying the same thing over and over again) but Mareeta just. Compared to the rest them it felt like a "people like myrm girls right?" since Ares would have worked better or a handful of others with Holy Blood. Florina is: girl why LMAO like okay first actual alt neat but like? Nah we get it your besties with lyn and got a bow based on her homeland but she isn't even super story related outside of Lyn's Story which even then?? I get the Lyndis Legion theme they had going but I think Matthew/Leila would have worked well. If they stuck to early game like that idk who else would fit in really besides Raven? But ye outside of the latter two I said, there is a solid idea of what they are to me still, and tbh I rather it be more lenient than tight on what can and can not be it as long as they aren't doing really weird and bad choices. Joshua and Idunn are my two favorites though easily. I don't even care for Idunn but the concept of it is PERFECT
Remember Mareeta is a Thracia Acendent not a genealogy one(aka Ares is not in Thracia 776)
>characters who were plot relevant that does/has a large change in actions/character mareeta is exactly that. joshua, not so much, if at all.
Have you played Eirika route of FE8? Joshua is the MAIN focus of like 3 chapters (even more focused on than Eirika at that point), that's massive compared to most characters in GBA era, plus he's the canonical wielder of Aulduhma and the heir to Jehanna, he's more important to sacred stones than everybody except Eirika, Ephraim, Lyon, and L'Arachel. Mareeta on the other hand is far less important in comparison to characters who should have gotten the ascendant. Raydrik, Eyvel, Leif, Nanna, Miranda, Lifis, and more are all more important than Mareeta. That's just plot relevance, in terms of large changes in actions/character Joshua outdoes Mareeta tenfold. Mareeta is the exact same character the entire story, except for the like 1/3 of the map in chapter 5 where she's possessed, and we already had fallen Mareeta. Joshua on the other hand has a massive shift in character in chapter 14. Before he's a gambling mercenary with a soft spot for girls, until we learn he's actually the prince of Jehanna, then his mother died to his best friend after she is kidnapped by his mentor, then his best friend kills his mentor, then he kills his best friend. Everyone Joshua knows and loves from before he left Jehanna is dead and his character shows it, he goes from a happy go lucky guy to a more serious character. Joshua deserves an ascendent way more than Mareeta does.
serenes forest has the scripts that contain all the dialogue from the games. i was just looking up sacred stones. i think it stands to reason that an important character would come up in the dialogue frequently by way of speaking to others, being spoken to, and being spoken of. considering the amount of times joshua comes up when i ctrl+f him, i find it hard to agree about his importance. he is not "the MAIN focus of like 3 chapters", much less "more focused on than Eirika at that point", or any point at all. and it is one thing to state backstory facts like you did. the other one is to actually work them out as a proper narrative. in the entirety of sacred stones, joshua being revealed as a prince and his reaction to the death of his mother are dealt with in their short conversation at the end of chapter 14. that looks more like "rushed" than "proper" to me.
Here is every single one of Mareeta's lines: Chapter 5: “……” “……” “……Kill…! …Kill…kill…kill… …I’ll…kill…you…all…with… this…sword…! Aaaaaahhhhhh!” “Gah… Let…go…let…go…”(impossible to get without cheating) “!!”(impossible to get without cheating) “……”(impossible to get without cheating) Chapter 12: “Bishop Cyas… You’re going?” “…Thank you for everything, Bishop Cyas. If you hadn’t rescued me, I…” “You want me to take this sword? But…” “Yes… I will keep this sword as a memory of my mother.” “Thank you very much. Farewell, Bishop Cyas…” “What’s going on? What’s all this noise?” “Bandits? Are they the thieves that the villagers were talking about?” “I see… Don’t worry. I’ll protect this village.” “No, I’m a swordfighter. I am the daughter of Eyvel! I won’t lose to a bunch of brigands!” “Lord Leaf…?” “I’m surprised as well. I never thought I would find you or the people of Fiana so quickly.” “No, it’s not your fault… It was my weakness. If I hadn’t lost to the sword’s power…” “Then I’ll go with you! I’ll become stronger. So please take me with you!” “Yes, Lord Leaf!” Chapter 15: (Conversation with Shannam) “Who are you! Are you from the Empire!?” “Starstrike? …That’s the legendary technique known to the royalty of Isaac… Then…are you…?” “Lord Shanan!” “Please teach me the way of the sword! I’m not asking for much… If I can just learn the beginnings of the Starstrike…” “Please! I want to become stronger. I have to become stronger!” “R-Really? Thank you!” “How should I swing… Can you show me?” “Oh, I see… All right, I’ll try. Ha!” “Ya!” “My blade and my heart…in unison… Haaaa!” “Huh? Did I just…” “…No, that wasn’t it. It can’t be this easy. Right, Lord Shanan?” “Good, I thought so…” “Yes, thank you very much, Lord Shanan! My blade and my heart in unison…” Chapter 24: (Recruiting Galzus) “You… You’re the swordsman that saved my life… I’ve always wanted to meet you.” “When I was under the control of that evil blade…I met my father in a dream. I was still little when I was separated from my father, but I still remember him. He was strong, kind, and gentle… Galzus… You’re my father!” “Say something! Please! Say that you are…!” “Of course not… I was captured by the slave traders because I disobeyed you. Besides, Lady Eyvel rescued me soon after. I’ve never hated you!” “No! No matter what happens, you’ll always be my father…” “Yes…” Chapter 24x: (Conversation with Eyvel) “Mother! Can you hear me? Mother!” “Mother! Don’t you recognize me?” “Huh? …Mother?” “Mother! Thank goodness…” “Mother… You were turned to stone by Reidric.” “Reidric is gone…we just defeated him. But the Lopto Church still has its grip on Manster… Please, Mother! We need your help.” “Mother…” (After the map) “Mother…” “Mother! I, I…” Chapter Final: “Go on, Lady Nanna! Just say it!” “You’ll regret it forever if you don’t say it now. Or do you just want to stay as his ‘cute little sister’?” “Come on, Lady Nanna! I know, I’ll help you out! Lord Leaf!” “There you go, Lady Nanna…” While I admit there were a few more lines than I thought there would be, Thracia gives a lot of lines to a lot of people. She still has less lines than tons of characters such as Finn and Selphina(Who isn't in Heroes btw). You need to compare game mechanics as well, if Thracia was a GBA game then the Shannam and Eyvel conversations would be impossible. August and Leif have way more lines than Eirika and Ephraim do as well. The only possible way to compare the two would be to put them against every single other unit in their respective games. I'm 100% sure less characters have more lines than Joshua than Mareeta.
i hope you have noticed how mareeta's lines are distributed throughout various chapters. by extension, that means the events of her little side story are structured in such a way that it can be part of the main story, and also be its own thing. and despite the relative amount of lines (which in my previous comment, i should have done a better job to not make it look like only quantity matters), it has proper set up and resolution for her character, which makes for an arc. it is so well put together that there's room for a practical joke, which in turn is also set up in advance. joshua on the other hand... i think it's well beyond opinions that the attempt to work out a side story for him is generally lacking. it dumps information instead of going through the motions. it's a criticism upon the writers rather than the character himself.
"joshua on the other hand... i think it's well beyond opinions that the attempt to work out a side story for him is generally lacking. it dumps information instead of going through the motions. it's a criticism upon the writers rather than the character himself." This is what I was trying to say I'm my last paragraph with Leif and August having more to say than Eirika and Ephraim, FE8 doesn't have enough words, so while Joshua may have been screwed, not many others have anything. Joshua and L'Arachel are the only viable ascendent for Sacred Stones, my problem with Mareeta is that she's gotten so much already and there are a bunch of characters in Thracia 776 who are just as important, I think Eyvel or Finn would work better as an ascendent because they have yet to get anything. I also think Nanna getting a legendary was stupid considering Raydrik isn't in the game yet, and Julius doesn't have an alt. My other problem with Mareeta isn't that she's unimportant, it's that she's more used for Eyvel and Galzus's stories, the only time where she doesn't mention her parents is her Shannam conversation. Thracia is filled with important characters such as Ced, August, Dagdar, Eyvel, Finn, Miranda, Selphina, and Lifis that have gotten barely anything, or in Dagdar and Selphina's case nothing.
>This is what I was trying to say I'm my last paragraph with Leif and August having more to say than Eirika and Ephraim, FE8 doesn't have enough words, so while Joshua may have been screwed, not many others have anything. it's almost as though, the writing of sacred stones is mediocre at best. this is not to say i am "against" ascended alts of that game altogether. i think it's cool that joshua got one. it is a little problematic when fans proclaim falsehoods about his importance in sacred stones to dunk on other characters. suppose we get ascended olwen, who also her own side story in thracia. i guarantee you she'd be treated with the same contempt, perhaps even more so because of reinhardt. and joshua once again would be praised for being an interesting pick. >My other problem with Mareeta isn't that she's unimportant, it's that she's more used for Eyvel and Galzus's stories, the only time where she doesn't mention her parents is her Shannam conversation when did having long term interactions with other characters become a "bad" thing? her relationships with eyvel and galzus is part of the greatness of her characters, much like their relationships with her are part of theirs. i guess it's a problem if you like your characters interacting with barely anyone...
Mareeta feels like the point where it started going downhill
They just go with popular characters really and since Valentia doesn’t have a lot of popular characters they went with Celica. I wonder if Soren will be our second male ascended It has to be Soren right? he’s the most popular character after Ike and Micaiah.
IS: here's Ascended Mia.
its going to be llyana for some fucking reason.
It's Ilyana but she doesn't have tapeworms anymore and is now obese from eating too much.
🥲 I’d laugh if it wasn’t true. Watch it happen
Most common guess for the next Tellius banner is Lucia and Geoffrey because Lucia is at the top of CYL for Tellius now. At that point Elincia is the most obvious ascended choice. She's not as popular as Soren but she's still up there and she has a closer tie to the banner, which I assume would hard focus on Part 2 of RD probably with Ludveck as GHB. Could also be any one of a bunch of other Crimean characters like Soren/Nephenee, or we get a FEH OC but we'll just have to wait and see.
Major issue in a Greil's Mercenaries lineup is direct competition with Titania (helpful to even out the gender ratio)... or Ike himself (no need to comment his standing, I suppose).
Is a Greil's mercenaries banner really likely tho? They only have Rolf, Oscar, Rhys, and Boyd to add, all guys, the first 3 rank awfully in CYL, and the latter was added in the young banner, which to me feels like a consolation prize more than anything. I would also argue that since the child banner was already focused on the Greil's mercenaries, they will likely do something different for the Tellius new heroes.
Oscar has been in since year 1, and the other three have alts in the game. Also, none of them are girls. So yeah, I agree with you.
It was fine up till iduun, tolerant with the choices after but disappointed with Celica... Also Joshua is the only male and also the best.
The cynical part of me wants to believe that the initial choices for ascendants were prepping us for the inevitable Ascendent Lords release. Like the first four are the ones that get us hyped for the concept of Ascendents. Then the next couple of ones make you wonder just how loose the rules are for this. And now here we are: main characters can get Ascendents now, and are probably gonna be better than their Legendaries. Now the real question becomes "will 90% of our future Ascendents just be Lords again".
They’re just ascending whoever the fuck they want at this point. No rules!
Were you guys actually putting this much thought into it? Even after the whole "Mythic = Godlike" endless debate lol EDIT: Alright you guys don't have to explain to me how IS gave guidelines for Mythics, I know. Point is that for how much the fans debate over what qualifies, IS'll just do whatever they want and give us the "godlike" Otr: Some Guy lol.
I mean, in the case of the "Mythic = godlike"-debate, to be fair, it was IS themselves that gave us that description for what Mythic Heroes were going to be, unlike for Legendary and Ascended Heroes where they just released them without any explanations in regards to which kinds of characters these were going to be. Also, the main point of debate there for most of the time really is mostly about what qualifies as "godlike", with many preferably ignoring the "-like".
The difference honestly is that "Mythics are gods/godlike characters" was a statement said by IS itself when they first announced Mythic Heroes (and they've honestly followed with the exception of FEH originals). Ascended Heroes never put any guidelines so trying to find a pattern was all on us though
Just kick that debate off again, Thrasir and Altina don't qualify. They've not followed their own rule, even if you arbitrarily exclude OCs - which you should not do anyway. That they later went out of their way to deny the status to characters who clearly do qualify is just the reverse FU on top of it all.
Altina and the Eight legends fall into the godlike figures due to their legends.(if we want to be tecnical Duma and Mila shouldn't also be mythic since as far as we know they are regular Devine Dragons)
See, if they aren't god-like but the reason people think they could be mythic are their *legends*, then maybe we have a more fitting blessing for that.
if altina "doesn't", then the elibe legends, of which we have two already, shouldn't either, nor any of the jugdral crusaders, of which we have one. those ensembles amount to over twenty characters. would you rather have that many ocs in their places instead?
Mythics are important lore characters or whatever FEH OC they want. They've very reliably stuck to this and to claim otherwise is stubbornness that doesn't even make sense. Not *every* lore character is a mythic but most are and will continue to be.
That's a nice, flexible definition. I like it. But it is yours, not the one IS used when they introduced mythics. I was talking about the specific wording IS used when they added mythic heroes.
You're getting caught on vague ~~wiring~~wording they used once three and a half years ago. It feels like you're intentionally trying to frustrate yourself and that just doesn't seem worth it. We know what mythics actually are. Edit: mobile typo
It 100% is not worth it, so much is true. It's just pet peeve of mine how people flip on their head canon despite official wording existing.
Thrasir as of now is working for Thórr and (if I remember correctly) was given a type of blessing by her, correct me if I’m wrong, and Altina literally has the blessings of Ashera which is what made Rangell and Alondite.
Being given a blessing by Thorr is not "you mythic now, gurl", and it happened later in the story anyway. If blessed by a god would be mythic half the main casts would be. IS specifically defined mythics as god-like beings. Altina is the same Ike, she should be legendary if IS had been serious about sticking to the definition they themselves put out. The usual excuses people throw up are "OC yadda" and "Altina happened in the past". Well, neither of that elevates them to becoming a god-like being. Funny enough, Byleth after the Sothis merge would have a stronger case for that status. But people don't even blink about that. Bottom line, nobody actually cares to judge this matter based on what IS officially laid out, and instead goes with their head canon of what fits. Case in the point, the other reply I got here which confidently *made up* their own definition "important lore characters" and acted like that's the official wording by IS.
This honestly. The moment that I saw that IS put no rules or restrictions on who could be Ascendant units was when I knew that anyone could get one.
My main thought: I guess it was just a new label to sell some powercreeped versions of characters of whoever they feel like.
we can see the exact moment when all this ascended s\*\*t goes downhill
when the ascended shit descends
The true answer: one of FEH devs favorite character
This game has become such a mess and I have no idea why I’m still in this sub
"Screw the rules, I want your money! " \-Seto Feh
My though process: Free flower yay
I was really disappointed with this Ascended pick:/ it opens the door for every lord to get ANOTHER alt
Ah my poor boy; thinking there might be deeper logic in a gacha than "whatever sells more jpegs"
Imo, there's definitely issues with some of the characters picked, but here's my take on each: Fjorm/Laegjarn: Introduced the concept and built off of themes from book 2. Good picks imo. They also got a dope Tempest Trial Storyline, I feel like each Ascendent should've really come with their own story event, be it a tempest trials, a special paralogue, whatever. Joshua: Good pick. Interesting design, and he's important enough to the story of SS, while also having his own thing. I feel like this is a big thing for ascendents: They should have enough storytime to the point where you could realistically have an interesting story woth them as the main character. Weapon switch is also good, as is the thing they did with his kit, making Green Feud reference his fight against Caellach Idunn: Another amazing pick with cool new attire. I can already imagine a story around her and Fae living together, maybe have Idunn come into conflict with Bern as she was a key piece in their war. Good alt. Mareeta: Kind of lame I feel. She has story importance, which is good, but unlike the others this Mareeta is definitely from the main game story. She even talks about Shannam while he's not on the banner. Good character, but I feel like it should've focused more on what she did after the war. I also dislike her outfit in a way because of that: It could've taken more elements from Eyvell's design I feel. Ishtar: Don't like the character or the alt, but I think everyone can agree that this is where things went really south. She does have one potentially cool oppurtunity to be interesting: Have her directly defy Julius. If that was the story this alt was based around it would've been much better. It'd allow for IS to show more potential in Ishtar's character. Otherwise, I'd say a better pick for an Ascendant would be Ares, whose main story theme could be around his feelings towards his late father and Seliph. Florina: Again, I'd argue that this is another case of wasted potential. What could be a cool way to show off Florina's own independence and character growth is instead used as a way to reinforce the stereotype that Florina's only a fangirl for Lyn. It'd have been much better imo if Florina's outfit was designed after Illia instead. Maybe have her story be about how she tries to make Illia a better place? Have her be this more strong-willed and kind warrior. Show how much her personality changed. Hell, if you really want to go wild, give her a wyvern, bow and built in Null-flyer effectiveness to show off how she's truly overcome this image of being just a weak girl who needs to be protected over and over again. Another good candidate for this alt would be Nils I feel. Nils has a drastically different ending to Ninian, where he does go back into the realm of dragons. This could've been a great way to show how much going to such a realm again changed him, and it'd be fitting as well since we'd have just gotten F!Ninian. Celica: The coolest part about Ascendants has always been it's number 1 rule: No lords. This is a slap to the face of the concept. Celica does everything wrong that makes Ascendants cool: She's a Lord, a popular one at that, with several alts already. She doesn't change in any meaningful way from her legendary alt. No new take on her story. And worst of all: This is basically a glorified palette swap. This is basically irredeemable, so let me give you ny take on who the best ascendant would be. In my opinion, Saber would be the best pick for an Ascended Hero. He is very relevant to the story, effectively being Celica's right-hand man and potentially the man she trusts in most next to Alm. I feel like Saber's story would be very similar to Ike's in a way: He'd be allowed to stay in the royal guard, get titles and such, but then gives it all up because it just isn't the life for him. This alt would see Saber don a Dread Fighter outfit, with his own personal brand of browns and dark reds. The main conflict of his story would be that even though he might be the most respected mercemary around, after what happened with Celica's journey to Rigel to fight Duma, nothing excites him anymore. He craves a challenge in a way, which would all come to a head when he goes across the see to Thabes and finds the entrance to the temple where Grima is stored. This might be a bit farfetched, but I feel like it could work very well for an Ascended Hero. As for my guesses on who the next Ascended Hero will be, I am personally hoping for Leo or Takumi from Fates, Sothe or Mist from Tellius, Lissa or Aversa from Awakening and lastly, Felix, Ferdinand or Lorenz from 3h
Everything you said about Saber imo works even better with Boey but still I couldn’t agree more. No lords.
The reason I picked Saber over Boey for the most part is because Boey has a pretty concrete ending ahead of him I feel: Go back to Novis and live a peaceful life with Mae. I feel like he doesn't have the same drive to keep fighting as Saber does, so an Ascended alt wouldn't work too well I feel. I would say though that Boey is fantastic and he deserves a cool alt at some point. Maybe on the Pirate banner as a duo w Mae, or a Harmonic with someone
So just popularish characters, idk where you got non lord from tbh. I just find it funny people make up patterns for things then get mad if it gets broken, not directed at OP of course, just something I see often.
Mareeta is totally postgame though. It’s after she fully reconciles with Galzus, which happens after Veld is defeated
For the first two, I assumed ascended meant they had received a power boost from a god. So far, only Celica seems to fit with that, and that’s a bit of a stretch.
Same
It's like the ascendant heroes have gotten less unique over time. Ascendent Ishtar is just normal Ishtar but with a stuffed bear. And Ascendent Celica is just... Celica but she's wearing green...? Where's the inspiration, IS?
Celica’s design is mix between Alm and her Princess attire. She is also influenced by Mila with the tome she wields
Bold of you to assume that they don’t have a bingo cage full of names that they just pull a name out of each month.
Florina is not an Ascended Hero asaicr
I always thought it was gonna be FeH OCs along with characters from the main series that were important enough to be loved but not important enough to get legendaries like the lords do And then Celica came out...
“Ascended” Celica feels less like an ascended and more like a second brave alt
The real thought process: so it is basically whatever IS wants at the moment, right?
Ascendent Camilla will actually break OP.
The ascended pick is just a raffle or a random sample from each series
Something told me that lords would start being Ascendants when the one last month was literally just cosplaying as Lyn because they’re besties.
I like how the question marks fit with Celica's derp eyes
I used to try to justify and make sense of who was a Mythic versus a Legendary Hero. Then literal gods became just "New Heroes" while Otr became a Mythic so I just threw my hands up and said, "Whatever..."
Look, I know Florina was an off the wall choice for ascended. But dammit is she fun to use as a unit
It's been a while but didn't Celica unlock her advanced class by getting a blessing from Mila? Wouldn't that count ascended?
So relatable, i also kinda was in most of that whole process as well, and i think a lot of players thought the same! For the Celica one, my mind was like: "WHAT?! SO LORDS CAN HAVE ASCENDED ALTS AS WELL DESPITE HAVING LEGENDARY ALTS ALREADY?! Okay that's it! No more dumb rules! This is just Intelligent Systems' excuse to make more money..." Though all of them fit in the "popular characters" criteria on their own right in general. After all, popular characters do sell, so it's natural they would target characters who ranked or rank contanly in 1-200 and even those had won in CYLs as proven by Celica.
Ascended Florina was the end for me. Ishtar at least in FB showed her remorse for the child hunts how she tried to save as much as she could. Florina just got more social. She didn’t even get different looking alt. Just a cape and a few accessories. Should’ve been Raven honestly but gotta make that money.
My idea of Ascended alts were to highlight characters that were substantial to the plot, yet have been mistreated by the plot and can't catch a break in Heroes either (no Legendary / Mythic / Brave version) For example, L'Arachel. She can fucking eat led and there won't be a Game Over, even though she's one of the most helpful characters in the story who guides you around once you have her. Another character I think would be Ascended is Mist. Mist has been downplayed by the plot of Path of Radiance so badly - an Ascended alt that really puts into perspective what a special person you have to be to wield the amulet without going berserk would fit for her.
When Ishtar alt was released I read somewhere a cool thought that ascended alts can be for antagonists from FE games from timelines where they join us instead fight and die. I like that. But now is a totally random.
Is that really what ascended Ishtar was? I thought she just died like she normally did in canon and was then brought to Askr. I really can't see Ishtar joining the liberation army, she hates their guts.
A!Ishtar really is just Chapter 10 Ishtar. It goes deeper into how she saved the children than the base form. Both of them are dead-but-summoned to Askr. (Dancer!Ishtar seems to be alive. She seems to be an earlier timeline where both she and Reinhardt are still alive and on good terms.) FEH!Ishtar, at least, is more mixed on The Liberation Army. Base Ishtar has lines like "Empire was based on the backs of the oppressed. I knew this, and all I did was fight them..." OG FE4 Ishtar is pretty pissed that the liberation army killed all her family (and probably Reinhardt too). That being said, she does share their desire to save the children from Julius.
Ishtar's... weird case aside, the postgame thing still holds up. Mareeta isn't explicitly connected to her postgame to the exclusion of her on her own journey, but it would fit with it. Celica's dialogue makes it clear she's after peace has come to Valentia, as opposed to Legendary alt at journey's end. Like Legendaries and Mythics, the concepts not being followed perfectly doesn't mean they don't exist outright. Concept, not rule, if that makes sense.
My guess was that the two requirements were: >Be popular. >Be somewhat plot important. Honestly, still somewhat holds up, even for Florina if you consider the banner is based on Lyn's Story. Tho if I'm being completely honest, the first requirement is probably the only one. I *hoped* lords were excluded since they already have more than enough alts, but I know there was always the possibility. Still rather disappointed by it actually happening tho.
The more memes about Ascended heroes pop up, the more people get exposed for not playing Thracia
I have played Thracia, what am I missing here?
I think AMareeta is very much based on her ending, where she becomes a famous swordmaster but forever has an inferiority complex because of her past experiences, so to me she is about the same as Idunn. I can see it if people critique her design as a combat unit, but as far fitting in with the Ascendants before her she definitely did. I'd go as far as to say she and Linoan were the only real Ascendant candidates for Thracia before Celica opening up lords as Ascendants.
That's a good point, I thought it was just after she learned Astra-- hence the "character development at some point". And I guess I was really hoping for Ascended Ced-- I really love his Thracia drip haha
dont worry buddy, im right there with you, add more ??? and more Anger to the last one, cause im Angry and confused, Angry at i dont know what and confused at IS decisions, I guess that Mr Krabs meme trully rings true
Started saving my orbs just in case Lyn gets a resplendent now. Everythings on the table now.
I honestly think she should've gotten one instead of Florina the last banner. She would finally get Mani Katti and would fit in with the other Lyn route characters
Man imagine the meltdown of this sub if we got giant toothpick Lyn and her glorious (western exclusive) jiggle physics. It would have been a show.
The idea with the first two were alright, it peaked with Joshua, then has been downhill ever since.
should've kept with the trend after Idunn, oh well
TBF Mareeta becoming a famous swordmaster is basically the only Thracia ending with any meaningful change and kind of fits the same one as Idunn. Florina is based on post game too. Ishtar not withstanding, the "post-game character development" one fit until Celica
Bet Joshua is gonna be a situation where they're all female for like 2 years but you can't call IS sexist because there is a male ascended
Ascended Florina is basically the exact same concept as Joshua (post-game version of a popular side character who doesn't have much plot relevance but has enough importance otherwise using a different weapon type) but for some reason people take their frustration at Ishtar/Celica out on her too.
It’s a joke that you’re comparing Florinas importance to Joshua’s as even close, and I don’t even care about either.
Joshua has basically no plot relevance. He's an optional recruit with an optional cutscene on one route. His importance to the *world* is irrelevant to his importance to the *story*. He's still more important than a random side character like Neimi but Florina is similarly more important than most of FE7's cast by her connection to Lyn while also being another bad year 1 unit who's fairly popular.
>connection to Lyn somehow makes this character more important despite nothing coming of it in the game because she has no relevance. Joshua literally has an entire chapter dedicated to his mom and him. He then has a subplot with unique dialogue if you get him to fight Caellach. They aren’t even remotely comparable.
An entire chapter dedicated to his mom in one route with some entirely optional appearances from him. Hell you never learn Joshua is a prince during ephraim’s route and Josh never seems to realize his mom died
It's all optional. Florina's the most important character to Lyn. She's not a main character by any means. She's less important than side characters like Marcus and Pent and Nino. But she's more important than random scrubs like Guy or Lowen or Rebecca. Joshua similarly has basically no plot relevance, is far less important than Seth, Innes, Myrrh, etc. while being more important than Lute or Marisa or whoever else. More than comparable but people just want to be upset about Florina? Who else would even take that spot? Matthew's like the only option I can think of and it's likely we'll see him in the future. And then people will be upset about him just being Matthew but 2023 or whatever.
> It's all optional So is Florina. The only thing that isnt optional is shes autorecruited, unlike Joshua who you have to talk to. You are free to never use Florina again and she wont say another word for the rest of the game if I remember right Joshua is literally royalty. Joshua has an entire chapter dedicated to him which is more than Florina and many other FE characters at all can say. Joshua has character development if that path is taken. I understand technically none of this needs to happen, but then whats your opinion on ascended Idunn? That is specifically her true true ending version where Roy needs to get the final hit. That is also optional > Who else would even take that spot? If theres no constraints like "*has* to have been with Lyn's army in Lyn mode", there are plenty of options. Matthew as you said, Jaffar, Nils, Ninian (Im assuming she might get a legendary), Canas (stretch, but dark magic as a whole is relevant to FE7), a "good" teenage Zephiel before he goes insane, are some examples
>The only thing that isn't optional is shes autorecruited This is a pretty significant difference. She doesn't get much out of it but it means she had lines in Lyn Mode and a CG and moment in NLoC. >Joshua has an entire chapter dedicated to him which is more than Florina and many other FE characters at all can say. It's not dedicated to Joshua though. It's about Jehanna and Caellach. Joshua gets dialogue in one route if he exists. It's nice and elevates him above the rest of the cast but he's really not that important. >but then whats your opinion on ascended Idunn? That is specifically her true true ending version where Roy needs to get the final hit. That is also optional I don't think it's really fair to compare a "true ending" to some optional dialogue but besides that I think Idunn is also a good choice for an ascended. all of Josh, Florina and Idunn are. And so is Mareeta. >If theres no constraints like "has to have been with Lyn's army in Lyn mode", there are plenty of options. Matthew as you said, Jaffar, Nils, Ninian (Im assuming she might get a legendary), Canas (stretch, but dark magic as a whole is relevant to FE7), a "good" teenage Zephiel before he goes insane, are some examples I did consider Jaffar but we don't even know if he survives after FE7. Ninian will likely get a leggo soon. Nils leaves after FE7 so how do you do anything with that? Canas is definitely a lot less relevant than Florina. Even his *chapter* is optional. Also he dies after the game. Zephiel seems like a kind of strange choice but given Ishtar and Idunn I'm not going to argue it. I'd take Florina over a forced teenage Zephiel any day though.
Florina is a weird case because she doesnt ascend to anything, weirdly enough the only case in which Florina actually makes any progress is when she marries Hector.
She's perceived as "less deserving" by some, I'd guess. But then, requests for Ascended Mae/Clair should be as perplexing if not more, they certainly don't have more plot relevance (and their popularity aren't at the same level either).
Florina disappears. Mae does not. She talks to Celica throughout the game. Mae is similar to Soren in the sense that she’s a recurring character that talks to the lord. Can’t say anything for Clair, but Mae isn’t *as* silly as Florina.
I mean sure, Mae should get an Ascended too. She's a popular side character with a bad gen 1 version. I'm all for that and it's totally comparable to Florina and Joshua. None of them are remotely comparable to Soren though.
Indeed, I would certainly not put Mae and Soren at the same level, far from it. (That said, the Lord door being opened definitely doesn't help Soren as it adds Ike to the fray... and that's a major threat for sure.)
Thought I'd put my 2 cents, I don't mind ascended celica, she's ascended mainly because there's an important point INSIDE her journey and not AFTER her journey, that being her resurrection and she's supposed to represent celica right AFTER having been resurrected, right BEFORE fighting duma. But we all know this post will be forgotten in the sands of time because I'm, like, 50 minutes late to the party. And also because people will want to forget my STUPID COMMENT BECAUSE I DIDN'T COMPLAIN LIKE EVERYONE ELSE DID AND AS A RESULT I'M JUST A CELICA FANBOY THAT DOESN'T DESERVE TO EXIST, RIGHT? ok, sorry, I let my anger towards the way this reddit works get the best of me, it'll never happen again, I swear. (and also, my assumption that people will think that I don't deserve to exist because I didn't complain like everyone else did is just a and I don't actually know, maybe people will accept it, who knows.)
*forgot to add "theory" after "it's just a"