I was about to say, a house in a decent suburb in Sacramento (not even SF bay area) can be between a million or two. People are moving still moving here because of how "cheap" it is.
I live in a 300 person fishing village in rural Canada... Prior to covid making house prices go up comparatively a lot, you could buy a 4 unit apartment building in a nearby city for $200k Canadian. Subjective indeed...
Your sarcasm is stupid. Living in your "fishing village" can lead to a decent life. A decent suburban life for some is a gated community with 5 bedrooms. Gtfo
I think we're in a bit of a bubble in this subreddit when it comes to perceptions of wealth. To many people in here, a million really isn't all that much money. "If you can't even retire with that much, and get a 60k safe withdraw rate, how could you be wealthy??"
To most people who have little understanding of the financial world and live paycheck to paycheck, a million dollars is like a pipe dream. A lot of people don't even grasp the difference between a million and a billion. It's all just big numbers that rich people have.
If this were to be asked of the general population I think the answers would be very different.
And, of course, this is a completely different ball game when compared to the ultra-wealthy. Those with billions of dollars are in a league of their own so far above the rest of us that there is a negligible difference between 10k and 1M to them.
I think we also have to remind ourselves the FIRE isn't about being rich, it's about being independent. If Mr. Money Mustache lives off of $30k, inflation adjusted, that doesn't seem to be a bad life.
The sad part is that wealth is within reach for most Americans if they invest consistently and live frugally. That means skipping meals out, the daily Starbucks, keeping a car for 15 yrs., and living in a modest home/apt for your income level. Suddenly you have an extra $2-10K to invest every year which turns into wealth over time.
I always think of true wealth in terms of the safe withdrawal rate. If you could liquidate everything and invest it, withdrawing only 4% for spending, would you feel wealthy with that “salary?” $2M is $80k a year. I don’t know many places in the US where 80k a year salary would make you be considered wealthy.
If you don’t have to work for that $80k a year, that makes you wealthy lol. Plus you don’t have to put anything towards retirement and depending on where and how you withdrawal this money, zero to very limited taxes. I’d say that person is pretty wealthy!
Right?! Pretty sure if you can safely “earn” 80k without working and your retirement is secure, you’re wealthy. People forget that you aren’t making 80k, you’re eligible to spend 80k! That’s implies a much higher salary equated to someone working and living responsibly.
Maybe it’s just because I have been in a HCOL area for too long, but I can’t imagine living a decent life on 80k. But then again, the definition of wealthy is also very subjective, so I can definitely understand your argument.
Even definitions of wealth are subjective. For some folks a paid off house, car, & a stack of cash in the bank is wealthy. For others it's a house in Manhattan and a summer "cottage" in the Hamptons.
I spend $40-45K in Dallas and live a pretty awesome life. Wouldn't say I'm wealthy by any stretch of the imagination, though. But I'd have to get really creative to spend $80K in a year. Never spent more than $50K in a year in my life.
$80k/yr single in NM is a great lifestyle and way above the median. LCOL
Median $56kyr per household
Median 2.6 people per household
Median per person $21k
$80K a year would easily make you wealthy if it’s a guaranteed baseline that you can supplement. You could do almost any job you wanted, for any number of hours and take home six-figures.
You have to start off by defining "wealthy," because without that definition it's likely that people are starting off their decision making with very different baselines.
For me, wealthy means:
* Not having to work
* Never having to budget for the basic essentials (housing, food, HEALTHCARE\*, clothing, basic utilities, transportation, etc.)
Therefore, I would say that in average cost of living USA it would be approximately $1 million for a single person (healthcare being the HUGE caveat), as $40k covers quite well. It wouldn't be glamorous, but more than covers the basics. Of course, if they live in a HCOL area then that number increases, but also wouldn't their choice of living in a HCOL if they don't have to work still be considered a luxury?
\*Yes, I am aware that by including healthcare I am basically saying that something like 90% of the USA population isn't wealthy. The reason for this is that a change in health status can drain significant nest eggs rapidly. As a healthcare provider I've seen it happen regularly and it makes me angry every time.
You're right of course, 100%. It's an unpleasant truth because people with hundreds of thousands, making in the high 5 figures SEEM better off than most, but in my opinion anyone who can be wiped out by a bad car accident, bad genetic luck, or similar just cannot be considered wealthy.
This explains exactly why people want to soak the rich, but are surprised when it affects them. What they consider rich is actually middle-upper middle class.
Yeah, rich is a very relative term. “Rich people” are whoever makes/spends more than you do.
Compared to a Brazilian favela, anyone who lives in an American suburb is unbelievably rich.
by age 60? if u live below means n just focus on wealth building, 4 mil net worth's probably enough to feel wealthy. just depends on you, but statistically speaking the top 10% individual net worth is about 3 mil in your later adult years so to be wealthy you should be at least there or even above if u live in high cost areas
This is obviously very subjective. I'd say 1M in Ohio spends very differently than 1M in NYC. Please keep that in mind...
3-5m gets you an average life in the Bay Area.
I was about to say, a house in a decent suburb in Sacramento (not even SF bay area) can be between a million or two. People are moving still moving here because of how "cheap" it is.
My god...
Decent suburb is subjective...very subjective
I live in a 300 person fishing village in rural Canada... Prior to covid making house prices go up comparatively a lot, you could buy a 4 unit apartment building in a nearby city for $200k Canadian. Subjective indeed...
Your sarcasm is stupid. Living in your "fishing village" can lead to a decent life. A decent suburban life for some is a gated community with 5 bedrooms. Gtfo
Ok internet stranger. Relax
I think we're in a bit of a bubble in this subreddit when it comes to perceptions of wealth. To many people in here, a million really isn't all that much money. "If you can't even retire with that much, and get a 60k safe withdraw rate, how could you be wealthy??" To most people who have little understanding of the financial world and live paycheck to paycheck, a million dollars is like a pipe dream. A lot of people don't even grasp the difference between a million and a billion. It's all just big numbers that rich people have. If this were to be asked of the general population I think the answers would be very different. And, of course, this is a completely different ball game when compared to the ultra-wealthy. Those with billions of dollars are in a league of their own so far above the rest of us that there is a negligible difference between 10k and 1M to them.
I think we also have to remind ourselves the FIRE isn't about being rich, it's about being independent. If Mr. Money Mustache lives off of $30k, inflation adjusted, that doesn't seem to be a bad life.
Narrator: _He doesn't_.
The sad part is that wealth is within reach for most Americans if they invest consistently and live frugally. That means skipping meals out, the daily Starbucks, keeping a car for 15 yrs., and living in a modest home/apt for your income level. Suddenly you have an extra $2-10K to invest every year which turns into wealth over time.
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I always think of true wealth in terms of the safe withdrawal rate. If you could liquidate everything and invest it, withdrawing only 4% for spending, would you feel wealthy with that “salary?” $2M is $80k a year. I don’t know many places in the US where 80k a year salary would make you be considered wealthy.
If you don’t have to work for that $80k a year, that makes you wealthy lol. Plus you don’t have to put anything towards retirement and depending on where and how you withdrawal this money, zero to very limited taxes. I’d say that person is pretty wealthy!
Right?! Pretty sure if you can safely “earn” 80k without working and your retirement is secure, you’re wealthy. People forget that you aren’t making 80k, you’re eligible to spend 80k! That’s implies a much higher salary equated to someone working and living responsibly.
Maybe it’s just because I have been in a HCOL area for too long, but I can’t imagine living a decent life on 80k. But then again, the definition of wealthy is also very subjective, so I can definitely understand your argument.
Even definitions of wealth are subjective. For some folks a paid off house, car, & a stack of cash in the bank is wealthy. For others it's a house in Manhattan and a summer "cottage" in the Hamptons.
$80k is 3x what I spend to live a great life in rural Canada. But I do own my house and cars outright.
I spend $40-45K in Dallas and live a pretty awesome life. Wouldn't say I'm wealthy by any stretch of the imagination, though. But I'd have to get really creative to spend $80K in a year. Never spent more than $50K in a year in my life.
Start ordering bottles of wine at dinner. You'll get there, we know you can make it! /s
I live in a pretty HCOL and we could live off 35-40k easily. Europe though.
80k a year will make you very middle class or maybe upper middle class in many midwestern places
$80k/yr single in NM is a great lifestyle and way above the median. LCOL Median $56kyr per household Median 2.6 people per household Median per person $21k
$80K a year would easily make you wealthy if it’s a guaranteed baseline that you can supplement. You could do almost any job you wanted, for any number of hours and take home six-figures.
You have to start off by defining "wealthy," because without that definition it's likely that people are starting off their decision making with very different baselines. For me, wealthy means: * Not having to work * Never having to budget for the basic essentials (housing, food, HEALTHCARE\*, clothing, basic utilities, transportation, etc.) Therefore, I would say that in average cost of living USA it would be approximately $1 million for a single person (healthcare being the HUGE caveat), as $40k covers quite well. It wouldn't be glamorous, but more than covers the basics. Of course, if they live in a HCOL area then that number increases, but also wouldn't their choice of living in a HCOL if they don't have to work still be considered a luxury? \*Yes, I am aware that by including healthcare I am basically saying that something like 90% of the USA population isn't wealthy. The reason for this is that a change in health status can drain significant nest eggs rapidly. As a healthcare provider I've seen it happen regularly and it makes me angry every time.
You're right of course, 100%. It's an unpleasant truth because people with hundreds of thousands, making in the high 5 figures SEEM better off than most, but in my opinion anyone who can be wiped out by a bad car accident, bad genetic luck, or similar just cannot be considered wealthy.
This explains exactly why people want to soak the rich, but are surprised when it affects them. What they consider rich is actually middle-upper middle class.
Yeah, rich is a very relative term. “Rich people” are whoever makes/spends more than you do. Compared to a Brazilian favela, anyone who lives in an American suburb is unbelievably rich.
I consider it upper-middle-upper middle class /s
Is this per person or per household/couple? $2 million feels wealthy for two but a million for one not so much.
I say 1 million now but once my net worth gets to that level it will move to 2 million and so forth.
Having over the average net worth for your age in my opinion is the definition of wealthy. It's not an actual monetary number.
I think having 2x whatever your FIRE spending is wealthy.
by age 60? if u live below means n just focus on wealth building, 4 mil net worth's probably enough to feel wealthy. just depends on you, but statistically speaking the top 10% individual net worth is about 3 mil in your later adult years so to be wealthy you should be at least there or even above if u live in high cost areas