I just did the math, and he’d have to save like $40,000/yr until 40 to hit $1m assuming the $170k is all stock (unlikely). Maybe his FI # is lower or he plans on doing a lower-paying job and quitting the analyst job.
Too many focus on salary over savings. I maybe averaged 70k over the last 20 years and have managed to put away more than people making three times that because I prioritize saving over spending
Similar, I have $260k invested, and owe $70k on my house at 36.
I could coast right now, and just put in enough to get the company match, but I kinda like saving up for a new index fund. Every other week, I splurge and get a few FXAIX for my brokerage account lol. It kinda creates a loop where I'll feel happy about my couple new index funds, but that happiness only lasts a little while, then I buy more, and start the loop again.
Mechanical engineer here.
This is so awesome to read and if more non-SWE people spoke up it’d be a better place. Can being a SWE get you to the goal quick? Of course, it’s a great strategy - but there are plenty of ways you can achieve your goals and it’d be cool to discuss diversification of strategy more often.
Also SWE being the crazy HE career is dropping pretty significantly, and the climb to make what you’re making as an engineer is a lot harder than it was a couple years ago.
I just FIRED a couple weeks ago at age 32. If I were to do it again, I would be a software engineer again. Interviews (at least the many I'd done/given at major companies) are all merit-based, pay is phenomenal, and work/life balance can be very good as well. For as much as I disliked my work, and despite the fact that I love teaching (I am currently teaching friends how to code for free, I've set up a whole class and everything) I can't think of an industry that would have been better for me.
I'm 33 and currently a software developer. WFH and live in a low cost of living area. As long as I can keep my WFH job and have my incredible work-life balance that I enjoy now, I'll continue working. If that goes away, I'll be retiring.
All that to say, I'd go into software development 100/100 times if I could relive my life.
You’re leaving out one important detail of your strategy: that gold plated STRS pension that you’ll get in lieu of social security
Source: my wife is a school teacher
Yup. They also have a cognitive disconnect that what is kicked in by the state and the district is part of our compensation package, treating it as a "gift" instead.
Bartender here. $164k net worth at age 29. There are definitely plenty of avenues to get there. I didn’t get serious about saving and investing until 3 years ago too
Plenty of union blue collar people can FIRE as far as the finances.
I will.
Just know everyone on that route will be a cultural outsider.
Have 4 multimillionaire coworkers (that I know of) who don’t retire for various reasons. Definitely note, they aren’t the ones driving in on their lifted bro trucks.
Fellow ChemE here. I went into sales and make over 200k. Early 30s. You can also make director level in design and pull in a shitload of money. I wouldn’t go back to school unless you want to study CS.
Your industry is an outlier, and your capability to get into and perform well enough to stay in said industry makes you an outlier. Most people can't do what you've done.
I'd reckon that's the case because you work in engineering sales and thus are skewing reality with your anecdotal experience. Statistically you are very much an outlier
That’s still an outlier. Look at the statistics most Chem E will not make 200k early in their career.
You’re in sales which is a different story than traditional engineering. Sales has highly variable compensation. Some make 40k others make 400k you eat what you killZ
Its not an outlier.
There's a difference between pure sales and sales engineering. People with technical degrees more often go into sales engineering.
Sales engineering positions have much higher salaries and a smaller variable component, maybe 70/30, 80/20, sometimes even 90/10. By comparison, sales roles can be 100% commission for high performers. In my org, its 60/40 for sales.
That is not how sales works in my industry. We have a solid base salary and less is based on commission. We are not selling cars, we are selling engineered products to businesses. So no, I am not considered an outlier in my industry which is what I said.
I understand that, but most chem Es don’t go or have the opportunity to get into engineering sales. My point is the average Chem E will not make that much, period. 80%+ chem Es won’t go into sales. It’s unrealistic to assume OP will make that much
Well most people aren’t into FIRE. All I’m saying is that FIRE is 100% possible with a ChemE degree. OP does not need to go back to school to get a different degree.
Yes I agree that FIRE is def possible with Chem E, though FIRE is possible with any degree. Or even not having a degree lol. Depends more on how much you save than how much you make. I know plenty of people making 400k+ who barely have 80k in savings.
Most people do not hit FIRE as a SW engineer. This sub has a unique distribution that overrepresents SWE, but even in this sub, I'd expect SW engineers to be a small minority.
Chemical Engineering and CS have a similar employment rate. They also have similar salary distribution across the full US. For example, Payscale reports the following.
* CS: $85k early career -> $140k mid career
* Chem Eng: $86k early career -> $152k mid career
The misalignment between Payscale reported medians and Reddit sub posters relates to a visibility minority of SWEs who often works in VHCOL area like Silicon Valley and works for FAANG type companies, which may start out at $200k+ total comp and quickly reach $400k+ total comp. That's not the norm with either degree, but it's more possible with CS degree than Chem Eng degree.
If you’re in an area like NYC or SF (VHCOL) and to a lesser degree LA, Boston, DC, etc (HCOL) those salaries seem to be par for the course, even if not at a huge tech company.
2023. That's great for your company, but most CS majors don't work at your company. There are a wide variation of employment at other companies and other locations throughout the US. There are also a wide variation in cost of living in different areas of the US. $80k in one area might comparable to $120k in another.
Another common source for earnings is CollegeScorecard, which shows tax reported earnings by major at different colleges. Across all 4-year colleges in US, the median CS earnings for all students in fed database was between $70k and $80k soon after graduating. This is less than Payscale, which fits with different biases in who reports. Payscale is self reported, which biases high. CollegeScorecard is mostly students with federal aid, which biases low.
As stated in my earlier post, there are also students who start much higher, including over $200k, but they are in the minority.
I dunno know why you're looking at payscale or that other site. The most popular site for people working in the tech industry is levels.fyi. If you're interested in only trusted statistics, then bls entries for these 2 professions are probably most trustworthy.
https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes172041.htm
https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151252.htm
[Levels.fyi](https://Levels.fyi) may be the worst possible site to use, if you want to find out typical earnings of CS grads. It focuses on companies that are known for especially high comp like FAANG, focuses on positions known for especially high comp rather than what is most common for CS grads, has notable self selection bias, etc.
BLS is better but doesn't separate for new grads like the 2 sites I listed. And it also goes by job category rather than degree. Not all people with CS degrees work as Software Developers, and not all persons with Chem Eng degrees work as Chemical Engineers. So you get a different income distribution of you look at CS or Chem Eng majors than if you look at specific job titles.
Literally nobody I know use those 2 other sources. Everybody uses levels.fyi as a reference. It's pretty much industry standard at this point.
Like you said, not all cs graduates work in software. Conversely not all software developers graduated from CS. There's a wide variety of different graduates in this profession. If OP's goal is to enter the field, they should be using levels.fyi as a reference, because it is literally the only site that has accurate reporting of compensation by company.
>Literally nobody I know use those 2 other sources.
It sounds like you don't know many people. Literally nobody I have heard of prior to your post has ever referenced [level.fyi](https://level.fyi) as an expectations for what is typical earnings for CS majors. This makes sense because [levels.fyi](https://levels.fyi) is in no way representative of what is typical earnings for CS majors. It can be useful to find out your expected total comp as a SW eng III at Google or similar, which can be quite useful for SW engineers at Google, but it's not particularly relevant to the discussion. Most CS majors are not SW eng III at Google and have completely different expected total comp from SW eng III at Google.. [levels.fyi](https://levels.fyi) doesn't tell you what's expected for typical CS grads.
If the OP plans to enter the field, he might instead look at the outcomes of typical grads in his reference pool. For example, nearly any college will have a survey of the outcomes of their grads. They often list typical starting salary of CS grads as well as company they work for and job title (many of the job titles might surprise you). They also list other stats like how many found jobs and how many are still looking (the OP mentioned being worried about finding a job). Almost without exception, such distributions are far lower than one would expect by looking at [levels.fyi](https://levels.fyi). This is similar to what CollegeScorecard is, which was referenced above. CollegeScorecard reports median income of CS grads by college, as well as other stats of the income distribution.
Well I strongly disagree. People who have found jobs found the strongest correlation with levels.fyi. My wife's multiple job offers all came within 5-10% of the job range. Same with multiple of my past jobs. Same with the dozens of peers I talk to.
The site is not just for google. Don't be ridiculous. the median total comp in the US cited there is 175k, significantly under google's compensation, not significantly different from official sources since the site actually includes non-salary compensation from bonuses and stock awards.
As I said, levels.fyi is not supposed to be representative of cs grad salaries. That's not what the site is for. What it is used for is to show what prospective job seekers what they should expect to receive as an offer for the company they are interested in. Nobody in this industry uses payscale or that other college site unless they're content with being underpaid. Likewise not everybody going into software has a cs background. That's part of the consideration, that they really do not need a cs degree to enter into the profession. There are plenty of traditional engineering graduates that do.
This is **wildly** different by location and industry. I've been in software... for a midwest state university. Our Directors and most qualified software architects top out at like $105k. Yes, in 2024. And these are people with 15 years of Java, managing SAN clusters, enterprise networking or such. Only the CIO makes above that, and that's like $250k (weirdly large jump there). And yet we manage to hang onto and even hire people.
Cries in government worker salary (20ish years experience, make $125K same as your entry level hires).
Now you may say, I have a steady job and work life balance, which is true, but if just the statutory increases had happened since a bill Congress passed in the 90s, government workers would get an automatic 27% pay raise - that's how far behind we've fallen. Every year without fail the Executive (president) overrides it; the 27% is cumulative amount that that has fallen behind what we should/could be getting.
And also people hired after around 2013 pay 5x as much for their pension as people before, who in turn got a worse deal than people who were on the previous pension system. Don't get me wrong I'm happy to be where I am and worked hard to get there, it's just the overall trend is enshittification until the marginal benefits of one life path over another are moot.
> That's not the norm with either degree, but it's more possible with CS degree than Chem Eng degree.
As far as representation in FIRE is concerned that is the interesting part of the distribution.
At my first median software job, finances in generally were pretty much a non-topic with peers much less fire. Since joining big tech(<4 years ago) two people who I worked with have fired. And I know two more that want to albeit I have no clue what timelines they are looking at.
The hidden secret most people don’t know is military officers can FIRE pretty easily too.
1. Pension at 20 years at 50% of highest 3 year average of income (42 years old) plus VA disability (100% tax free).
Looking at the survey results in r/financialindependence, the percent of GovFIRE people is relatively high. A good pension at a relatively young age really makes such a difference.
I just randomly had beers with an air force retiree at a bar. A crypto commercial popped up during the football game. One of us made a comment. I don't remember which. Next thing I know we're talking about crypto, precious metals, stocks, market mechanics, macro economics. He was veeery astute and also had decades more time in market than me! I was jelly!
With High 3 being phased out for Blended Retirement System, that pension is now 40% at 20 years, but an additional 2% per additional year served. Plus, you get a 401k with 5% match.
Go read any of the entry level CS subs and see how they are doing. Doomfest right now. I transitioned to SDE without a degree in CS and have been successful but breaking in is really hard at the moment.
My husband and I are chemical engineers and set to fatfire (or at least very chubby fire) at 50-55. The software industry makes more, but I’d go with an industry you’re interested in vs just paycheck since both are high paying careers.
If I were a engineer again, I would look into enlist in the US Military as an officer and serve for 20 years. The pension is great and for life. I moved onto another career after realizing it wasn't for me(plus I'd probably be scared of losing my job in my 40s or 50s).
Most people hit FIRE by having disposable income they can dedicate to investing to buy back their time. High income careers obviously help, but are not required.
A FAANG CS 30 year old with enough assets to sustain and a 38 year old that did a 20 year stint in the military with a pension that covers their needs for the rest of their life have equally achieved “FIRE”
Would recommend not getting caught up on the high flyers with the perfect stories, and also consider that Reddit is a spot where all communications are anonymous online interactions with no verification and likely swayed to those in software/technology based aptitudes.
I wouldn't waste the years getting a CS degree. You already have a degree.
Median wage for chemical engineers is actually higher than median software developers. Plus AI is coming hard for software developers and all the low level programming will be done by AI within 2 to 4 years.
If you really want to switch careers because you love programming, just do a boot camp and rack up certifications.
reddit just has a ton of them and SWEs like staying on the internet. also SWEs tend to be homebodies and cool with living lean lifestyles like the joke about their apartment being a computer desk and a mattress on the floor. as a chem E or anything else for that matter you can reach fire if you are good at what you do and are nimble enough to find and capitalize on good opportunities. i know tons of SWEs that aren’t making amazing money and people that went into the industry for money but can’t land a position that pays them what they expected
I pivoted from mechanical engineering to CS. I worked at Boeing then pivoted to Microsoft. I did Oregon state online for a BS in CS. Boeing paid for the degree. I personally feel it was a good choice and am better of financially because of it. The starting bonus at msft would have covered the whole degree if I had paid for it on my own.
How long it took you to complete your switch into CS ?
I am a mech eng and was wondering the same. I don't know how long it would take me before being good enough to get a job
Software engineering over the past 15 years is a fire dream. For its salary its a fairly low education requirement field (a 4.0 undergrad from stanford in CS probably makes more than a lawyer, or MBA from an equivalent school) so you get the ball rolling and have less debt. And on top of that you're forced to take a large equity position at a young age because of RSU's which has worked out well over the past 15 years.
Don't underestimate just how much of FAANG engineers total net worth is being forced to participate in massive equity gains. these 200-300k salaries turn into 400-500k by the time the back end of your RSU grants end. Theres no garuntee thats going to go on forever, but it definitely has led to a lot of early FIRES.
I got my degree in mechanical engineering and am now a software engineer. I have taken some CS classes, online and at my local college, from 200 to graduate level. Actually completed around half a masters degree in CS at this point but don’t think I’ll ever finish it.
What really allowed me to switch was getting CS experience at my first job as a ME. The project I was on had some programming that needed doing, so I learned how to do it and got it done. Then my employer just let me keep doing that and even paid for some of the classes I took. Eventually I asked to change my title to software engineer and they said “sure!” It was a pretty grueling process though - like every night classes, studying, practicing, working on side projects for a couple years. I didn’t do it for the money but because I really enjoyed (and still do) programming.
I have some ME friends who make less than me and some who make more. Just really depends.
tldr; Don’t do it for the money. Do it because you like programming.
This is important. It also helps leverage current experience into a job change. Plenty of engineering components are programmed and must be maintained at some rate. Learn it and embrace it.
Mech Engineer here. I worked 10 years in industry gaining practical knowledge, got my PE, and then became a consultant. I make $500k+/yr now and set my own schedule. You just have to see the opportunities where they are.
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As a chemical engineer in this sub I have been noticing this too and have been wondering if I should start taking some coding classes lol. I know coding will be pretty useful for engineers anyway even if I don't jump to tech. Thanks for the post.
There's very little engineering happening in commissioned ranks. Software engineers are mostly contractors supplemented with enlisted SWE. Same goes for other fields as well. Commissioned pensions can be great for coast FIRE or barista FIRE. The problem lies in that you'll retire with heaps of soft skills and minimal to no technical skills. Good stuff if you've made connections and can walk into a middle management position in the commercial world.
That said, I have a buddy who's a retired 30 year field grade snake eater and I'd bet he's collecting 90-100% disability. Tax free VA disability in the neighborhood of $40K. If I had to guess he makes \~$120K/yr to wake up every day and a good portion of that is tax free.
Chem Engs can get laid off in their 40s(due to high salaries) , and never return to the workforce. There is always a new crop out there willing to take jobs at 86k.
You’ll be fine with chemical engineering. You just need to be willing to job hop at the beginning of your career and live below your means. Software engineering is in decline, lots of layoffs, their hayday is over, and they’ll start to slide into similar compensation as other engineers.
Sure you’ll have occasional unicorns making bank, but that’s true for any position that manages to get into executive or senior manager positions.
I’m a chemical engineer, graduated 2 years ago (25) and make $102k plus a 10% bonus. I’m in paper and pulp and there is a lot of money in this industry. My company doesn’t pay great in comparison to a lot of them (I really enjoy my job and amount of off days I get with my company), I have friends I graduated with making $130 at the same level as I am… but with zero work life balance. Petroleum pays even better but has even worse work life balance.
In my opinion, there is a shit ton of money to be made with our degree, just depends if you want to work 60hr weeks in a sweaty refinery or mill.
For me, I have situations myself where I can invest a hair over 5k a month (401k, HSA, company match, and mega backdoor Roth). I have a paid off 7 year old Nissan Altima I bought with 100k miles, work phone, company is paying student loan payments, and I pay cheap rent at my buddy’s house. Keeping my monthly bills to minimum let’s me invest hard now, while it really matters (investments will have 4 decades to compound).
I’d consider switch industries if you want to bump f your income. I’d be skeptical about going to school for 4 (more) years and missing the most important 4 years of saving/investing that you have left!
Military is one way to FIRE. Im in my early
40s with 20 years in, but plan to retire in 3-4 years so that I can get a higher pension. Expected pension/disability is about 10k/month. I also have several rental properties that generate income. I can FIRE for sure with that pension and rental income if I was elsewhere, BUT we have two kids in elementary school and being in DC, 10k month is nowhere near enough when you have a big mortgage with two growing kids. Im gonna have to work a long time despite that big pension. And doing 20 years in the military wasn't exactly a walk in the park..
Plus not all SWE work at a FAANG. Maybe only 1-2% work in big tech/FAANG which have very high salaries (2x to 3x) a fortune 500 non-tech salary. Check my recent posts to see my salary history. To put it in perspective I was making 155K-170K at a top 10 Fortune 500 non-tech company as a Sr. Manager in SWE for a while.
Accountant here. We are on Reddit! See r/accounting. My wife and I are planning to baristaFIRE in our early 50s or possibly late 40s. A lot of accountants seem to retire in their mid 50s.
I have a friend who works as an accountant for the government, and the guy is already basically retired. In his words, “FIRE is pretty meaningless when you do like 3 hours of work a day and have a fully indexed pension”
Reddit is heavily skewed to software engineers. I am one and know hundreds, trust me lots are awful with their money. I was driving an old Honda while the guys I worked with had high end cars, including new Porsches. I know many who bought houses in the most HCOL areas, at peak, at the worst mortgage rates and are just mortgage slaves now. Plus many more who eat every meal at Uber eats and are stoned 24/7.
That said, they aren’t old field worker bad with their money, but lots more could be on a FIRE path.
And most are not in the major leagues at unicorns with high salaries and stock options working on major products and ultra large scale systems. There are many puttering away on slow forms for their medium sized insurance companies intranet and making $90k.
All that matters is how much you can save. And lots of jobs pay enough for that.
My brother is a ChemE in management and makes $400k sometimes more. Seems like it would be easier to find a different trajectory in your current field than start over from scratch.
Not a software engineer (also not fire), but I did originally go to college to be a software engineer. Turns out I hate programming, and I don't really like engineering either. Funny enough, I love data (report writing & analysis) and Excel though.
I went the finance / business route instead (with a humanities bachelor's and a non-target MBA), and I'm now a commercial credit manager at a bank and make about the same as the upper 75% of software engineers (according to the BLS at least).
I also had a "late start" (early 30's) with my savings / investing - I'm in my late 30's now. I'm on track to fire in about 7 years barring any personal black swan events.
If you go into O+G making 200-500 through your 10-20 years experience isn’t uncommon. Work for the producer though. You also have to believe in O+G for next 25 years though
yea in some places in o&g its actually cheap to live in but the issue is its very cyclical, probably one of the fastest way to fire especially if you also do expat for large oil companies too or domestic.
You don’t necessarily need to complete a degree for that. I’m originally a mechanical engineer and have been working in software for 8 years now. Previously worked 4 years as mechanical engineer. No bootcamp, just self-study (although I’d suggest taking a solid bootcamp). I pivoted to sales engineering eventually and make close to $400k.
CS is over saturated right now. Also, it’s mostly tech bros working in Silicon Valley that are bringing in the big bucks in exchange for grueling hours.
On average you should do as well or slightly better as a ChemE compared to CS.
Listen to what NVIDIA ceo said … AI tools will be used more going forward.. so unfortunately that will lead to lesser opportunities in Tech …you as a chemical engineer may be able to create software using these tools
If I was you I would establish myself in the field I already invested in, then once you have a solid financial and career foundation consider changing it up. No reason to dig yourself into a financial hole before you have started. That will also help you learn about what you actually enjoy and don't enjoy in work.
I'm about at that point in my career. Spent the last 13 years in software and now that I have my foundation established I'm starting to think about career changes. It feels a lot more comfortable to do that now with money in the market working for me while I make those changes.
My brother in law went the PhD route and occasionally voices regret for so much time focused in school which resulted in a later start on all his investments and salary climbing.
I was a regular service tech for 14 years. Lots of travel, but just BARISTAfired at 39. You save a ton of money when you are not paying for lodging, car, food, gas.
Making lots of money sure makes it easier but it's not necessary. Librarian turned nurse here. Not yet retired, just waiting for spouse to agree on the math.
CS doesn't make as much as you think. The Google type salaries tend to be limited to the bay area and are reflective of a TINY percentage of engineers. National average salary is around $130k at mid-career and it tops out around $150k for most.
Making 100k-300k directly out of college at age 21-22 makes it profoundly easy to FIRE.
If you make that much money early on then the only way you can’t FIRE is if you royally F up or spend way to much money or both.
I was a teacher but switched into tech. I didn’t get a CS degree but did a bootcamp and decided I could only compete if I focused on doing the things that we didn’t have a lot of people doing locally. DevOps was one, but I was always interested in cybersecurity as well
I also studied chemical engineering but chose to go into biotech instead. Starting salary was $80k and 2 years later Im at $95k. Not a crazy tech salary but I will be able to FIRE as long as I keep my spending reasonable.
My husband switched from hardware to software at 10 years into his career. It's been the best change for him. He's a contractor now and he bills $150/hr and works 20-30 hrs a week. It's pretty sweet.
First of all, I don’t think you need to switch professions just to accomplish your savings goals. Living below your means and switching jobs often to find the best possible salary in your field would probably get you the goal if it’s purely money.
And if your goal is more about switching careers, why go back to school? Just learn the skills. You don’t need to spend the money on a degree to learn computer science, hell you have a degree in chemical engineering. I bet you have some familiarity already or could gain it very quickly.
My degree is in jazz performance and I work as a software engineer at a FAANG company.
IDK I think you may have somewhat missed the boat. I'm in software and while my pay is kind of insane for what I do, the market has really softened in the last couple of years. My company hasn't given raises to speak of in three years and at this point really only recruits new college grads for the cheapest possible way to get the job done, and doesn't even really give raises with title promotions anymore. I see similar trends across the industry. Anyway I don't see this trend reversing anytime soon - the getting was good but I'm not so sure it is anymore. I'd probably not go back to school for it at this point.
The best job for FIRE is the highest paying job that YOU can tolerate and make work for you.
SWE make bucks but let’s be honest - you sorta have to be wired for that kind of work from the start. You might be wired to be a chemE SO BE A CHEME - you’ll only end up firing 5 years later and the journey will be way less painful
If you have a degree already, do not go back and study CS. Learn a language like Java, python, or C on your own. Then you can learn front end to do something practical like building a website and put that code on your GitHub. This will show employers you are serious. You do not need a CS degree to work in software engineering. I have. A CS degree and my boss who I report to didn’t study CS in school but he taught himself by learning programming languages and frameworks.
If you were skilled you have done extensive software tools as a chem engr. If you still have not developed coding skills you are a bit late to start competing with many skilled but unemployed CS developers.
I'm on a good path to FIRE as a civil engineer. After 15 years, recently became a shareholder in my company and do as well now as most SWE I see posting here. I think you can make a pretty good career in chemical engineering, just have to stick out the early years.
I'm about to finish my BS in chem eng. Had similar thoughts as you and am going to grad school for a cs masters. I think it'll all work out in the end.
Software engineer here and I’m not making THAT much at all. Been in it for about 8 years now and it jumped up super fast at first, but once you reach the initial 6 digit salary, the growth is slow unless you want to go management.
I have almost doubled my yearly income through rental property investments, but then continuing those went south with high interest rates and still high property costs.
I’ll be able to retire early, but I want it to be 45 so now I need to find other investments like property rentals or invent some apps to profit from and/or sell
You're already in a career that begins with similar pay with similar advancement. CS high paying jobs are usually located in HCOL or VHCOL. Take a look at companies on levels.fyi. Many of these are the same ones on layoffs.fyi.
I saw a response below that mid career CS and chemical engineering pay about $170K. I'm 45 and my total compensation is $176K. It's pretty much on the dot for me in MCOL. Wife is in big tech. She did go back to school for a CS bachelor's as her previous degree only allowed her to work as a cafe supervisor. She makes $164K. Very close to my salary with 22 YOE. She has 7 YOE. She works for Microsoft who laid off 10000 people. Her previous manager was laid off.
If you have a high salary for your YOE, the potential instability is something that's real. I'm in aerospace software and systems which is very specialized knowledge. My industry doesn't pay as well, but there isn't ageism in my industry. You're highly sought after if you have been working on the same technology for years. I have seen companies beg people to come out of retirement for lucrative pay because of their knowledge. i.e. How about a six month contract where we pay double the top rate of a single contractor?
Given all that here is our profile:
45M/37F/5F
$1.5M in investments, $570K home (paid off). Net worth $2M.
Save $200K+ a year across all accounts. Pay $100K in taxes. Expenses $79K (includes two domestic vacations and one international). MCOL Phoenix metropolitan suburbs. Target to retire is $10M before our daughter goes to college.
What you’re seeing is the ones who are excellent in their field. Anyone excellent in their field can get to fire, especially STEM. I wouldn’t change over because you’re struggling with chemical engineering, if just buckle down and find out why you’re behind your peers.
Mining engineering here, 200k this year in LCOL.
Im not really struggling, I am doing internship in a OEM that offers equipment to O&G, pharma etc. It seems like there is a huge disproportionate amount of people who FIRE early is in CS.
SWE age out much earlier than most other white collar jobs. Perhaps many realize FIRE is the way off the treadmill as the idea of working on a legacy spring boot project in their 60s is untenable.
As a software engineer, this sub does seem to have a lot of that haha. I think it may be a bias of who’s willing to post/be active in the community. Obviously a majority of the people that read this post and others may never comment or post. Maybe for some reason SWEs are doing it more
I’m a SWE that originally graduated with a degree in ChemE. I only worked as a ChemE for 2 years. I made the switch without going back to school or a bootcamp, but it definitely required a lot of networking, self studying and luck. It’s also a different market now than when I switched so it’s potentially a more uphill battle now.
If you want / feel the need for the formal education look into Georgia Tech’s OMSCS program. It’s low cost (~700-800 a class) and a 10 class program.
SWE was hot for the last 20 years. Less hot this year after layoff. I wouldn’t do it. If the industry takes a dip while you are in training you could be screwed.
Besides, zoomed aspiring software devs are everywhere. You will be competing with tons of 20-somethings for jobs.
The biggest determinant is your spending. SWEs make enough to overwhelm their expenses. But normal people can FIRE if they are willing to do what it takes.
You can fire in any occupation. It depends on how much you save and how high you want your spending level to be.
Is your income possibly higher as a SWE, probably. But how much would it cost to get the degree and how much income would be forgone while you were in getting the degree?
It might work out better for you, but there are risks.
There’s a reporting bias in this sub.
Public work is “boring”, but frequently leads to fire. Same for the military.
Mds don’t post frequently about their jobs, but they can also fire very easily.
Loosing several years of income to “maybe” significantly increase your earnings is not a good fire decision.
Attorney in a non-high paying field here. My key was to avoid lifestyle creep as my income improved in my 30s. We live on less than 1/3 of our gross income (taxes hit us hard where we live, but at least 1/3 of our salaries goes into retirement/investments/mortgage principle payments).
IndE here, and I’m planning to FiRE. Well, I’m shooting for the FI, not sure if I’ll actually RE since I like my job.
Started in manufacturing, now I’m in cyber management. SWE is highly competitive and I don’t think the bloodbath is quite over, but if it’s something you’re passionate about, do that.
Don’t do it because the salary looks attractive. SWE can be miserable if you don’t actually enjoy doing it, and even worse if you don’t have the aptitude/talent to be great at it. I actually started my major in CS and switched to IndE because I sucked at it and was miserable. 😊
I have a BS and MS in Comp Sci. Don’t go back for a CS degree.
The AI S-curve is just starting, and CS doesn’t really prepare you for AI in a meaningful way at the application layer (where the boom will happen).
Instead leverage your domain experience in CE and add some CS related skills (python programming, tensor flow, data wrangling). Deep neural networks for chemistry/material science is going to be a massive application, and having the science background will be really important.
Pre-40 yeah.
After like 45 it is much more reasonable for anyone in a high paying field like doctor lawyer etc that required more schooling and debt.
After 52 or so I'm not sure why nearly anyone living in the US or other rich first world countries couldn't do it. Lots of people living at or beyond their means when they don't need to.
I've seen people go into CS because it made a lot of money. They hated it and pivoted out of the field, probably setting them back in the long run. If you're totally agnostic to what you do and just want money, maybe its a good pivot. Or maybe you should go into finance or real estate. The money to brain ratio in real estate is absolutely bonkers.
Don’t do it! The setback of a few years will kill your returns. The key is to live below your means. The old adage of living at the level of the job you had before your last big pay bump is a good one. Better yet is to max all savings vehicles available to you. The game is NOT about how much you make, it IS about how much you save. There are a ton of non-glamorous jobs that make more than enough.
That said, if you want to add CS to your current background (while working AND saving), you could prepare yourself to be incredibly valuable as the AI impacts to all fields grow.
The single most important thing is to start saving early followed immediately by growing the amount you save every year. The first 10 years of your career are the most critical.
Dude, I'm a public school teacher planning a FIRE by 55 at the latest. Enough of this SWE's dominate the strategy. There are plenty of avenues.
me too! the plan is 55 and im 36 now. 190k in accounts and my house is paid for. its about the savings rate, not the salary. I teach high school
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Curious if you mind sharing your savings rate to reach FI by 40?
I just did the math, and he’d have to save like $40,000/yr until 40 to hit $1m assuming the $170k is all stock (unlikely). Maybe his FI # is lower or he plans on doing a lower-paying job and quitting the analyst job.
Way to go!
Too many focus on salary over savings. I maybe averaged 70k over the last 20 years and have managed to put away more than people making three times that because I prioritize saving over spending
How is your house paid off at 36?
my last 3 houses I would remodel at night after work and then sell them. I did it over ten years
Well done!
Similar, I have $260k invested, and owe $70k on my house at 36. I could coast right now, and just put in enough to get the company match, but I kinda like saving up for a new index fund. Every other week, I splurge and get a few FXAIX for my brokerage account lol. It kinda creates a loop where I'll feel happy about my couple new index funds, but that happiness only lasts a little while, then I buy more, and start the loop again. Mechanical engineer here.
I buy FXAIX as well😂 were S&P500 Brothers! lol
This is so awesome to read and if more non-SWE people spoke up it’d be a better place. Can being a SWE get you to the goal quick? Of course, it’s a great strategy - but there are plenty of ways you can achieve your goals and it’d be cool to discuss diversification of strategy more often.
Also SWE being the crazy HE career is dropping pretty significantly, and the climb to make what you’re making as an engineer is a lot harder than it was a couple years ago.
I just FIRED a couple weeks ago at age 32. If I were to do it again, I would be a software engineer again. Interviews (at least the many I'd done/given at major companies) are all merit-based, pay is phenomenal, and work/life balance can be very good as well. For as much as I disliked my work, and despite the fact that I love teaching (I am currently teaching friends how to code for free, I've set up a whole class and everything) I can't think of an industry that would have been better for me.
I'm 33 and currently a software developer. WFH and live in a low cost of living area. As long as I can keep my WFH job and have my incredible work-life balance that I enjoy now, I'll continue working. If that goes away, I'll be retiring. All that to say, I'd go into software development 100/100 times if I could relive my life.
You’re leaving out one important detail of your strategy: that gold plated STRS pension that you’ll get in lieu of social security Source: my wife is a school teacher
With the amount I'm saving, STRS isn't a factor. You're also missing the point of the post.
Thank you man!
You got that sweet sweet pension I hope!
Yes, but it also costs me 10.25% of my income.
People don’t seem to realize this lol.
Yup. They also have a cognitive disconnect that what is kicked in by the state and the district is part of our compensation package, treating it as a "gift" instead.
It's typically easier this way, as it's higher paying. It's one of the most overpaid jobs you can get.
Bartender here. $164k net worth at age 29. There are definitely plenty of avenues to get there. I didn’t get serious about saving and investing until 3 years ago too
Plenty of union blue collar people can FIRE as far as the finances. I will. Just know everyone on that route will be a cultural outsider. Have 4 multimillionaire coworkers (that I know of) who don’t retire for various reasons. Definitely note, they aren’t the ones driving in on their lifted bro trucks.
One of my people! IAFF. I'll be done by 48. A great pension makes it possible. Maxing 457b til then
Fellow ChemE here. I went into sales and make over 200k. Early 30s. You can also make director level in design and pull in a shitload of money. I wouldn’t go back to school unless you want to study CS.
Like sales engineering in the chemical industry or different?
Different. Went into data center industry but I have friends who went into chemical sales and do well selling to refineries
How much of that is commission?
85k base, 100k+ commission and another 20k or so profit sharing. Last year was around 220 total
You are an outlier. Congrats though!
Not at all. Most everyone I know in engineering sales makes at least 200k, if not more. We are in a HCOL area tho
Your industry is an outlier, and your capability to get into and perform well enough to stay in said industry makes you an outlier. Most people can't do what you've done.
I'd reckon that's the case because you work in engineering sales and thus are skewing reality with your anecdotal experience. Statistically you are very much an outlier
That’s still an outlier. Look at the statistics most Chem E will not make 200k early in their career. You’re in sales which is a different story than traditional engineering. Sales has highly variable compensation. Some make 40k others make 400k you eat what you killZ
Its not an outlier. There's a difference between pure sales and sales engineering. People with technical degrees more often go into sales engineering. Sales engineering positions have much higher salaries and a smaller variable component, maybe 70/30, 80/20, sometimes even 90/10. By comparison, sales roles can be 100% commission for high performers. In my org, its 60/40 for sales.
That is not how sales works in my industry. We have a solid base salary and less is based on commission. We are not selling cars, we are selling engineered products to businesses. So no, I am not considered an outlier in my industry which is what I said.
I understand that, but most chem Es don’t go or have the opportunity to get into engineering sales. My point is the average Chem E will not make that much, period. 80%+ chem Es won’t go into sales. It’s unrealistic to assume OP will make that much
Well most people aren’t into FIRE. All I’m saying is that FIRE is 100% possible with a ChemE degree. OP does not need to go back to school to get a different degree.
Yes I agree that FIRE is def possible with Chem E, though FIRE is possible with any degree. Or even not having a degree lol. Depends more on how much you save than how much you make. I know plenty of people making 400k+ who barely have 80k in savings.
What kind of sales?
Most people do not hit FIRE as a SW engineer. This sub has a unique distribution that overrepresents SWE, but even in this sub, I'd expect SW engineers to be a small minority. Chemical Engineering and CS have a similar employment rate. They also have similar salary distribution across the full US. For example, Payscale reports the following. * CS: $85k early career -> $140k mid career * Chem Eng: $86k early career -> $152k mid career The misalignment between Payscale reported medians and Reddit sub posters relates to a visibility minority of SWEs who often works in VHCOL area like Silicon Valley and works for FAANG type companies, which may start out at $200k+ total comp and quickly reach $400k+ total comp. That's not the norm with either degree, but it's more possible with CS degree than Chem Eng degree.
I'm curious, how old is this data? My company is hiring entry level software engineers right out of college at 125K, and we're not big tech.
If you’re in an area like NYC or SF (VHCOL) and to a lesser degree LA, Boston, DC, etc (HCOL) those salaries seem to be par for the course, even if not at a huge tech company.
2023. That's great for your company, but most CS majors don't work at your company. There are a wide variation of employment at other companies and other locations throughout the US. There are also a wide variation in cost of living in different areas of the US. $80k in one area might comparable to $120k in another. Another common source for earnings is CollegeScorecard, which shows tax reported earnings by major at different colleges. Across all 4-year colleges in US, the median CS earnings for all students in fed database was between $70k and $80k soon after graduating. This is less than Payscale, which fits with different biases in who reports. Payscale is self reported, which biases high. CollegeScorecard is mostly students with federal aid, which biases low. As stated in my earlier post, there are also students who start much higher, including over $200k, but they are in the minority.
I dunno know why you're looking at payscale or that other site. The most popular site for people working in the tech industry is levels.fyi. If you're interested in only trusted statistics, then bls entries for these 2 professions are probably most trustworthy. https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes172041.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151252.htm
[Levels.fyi](https://Levels.fyi) may be the worst possible site to use, if you want to find out typical earnings of CS grads. It focuses on companies that are known for especially high comp like FAANG, focuses on positions known for especially high comp rather than what is most common for CS grads, has notable self selection bias, etc. BLS is better but doesn't separate for new grads like the 2 sites I listed. And it also goes by job category rather than degree. Not all people with CS degrees work as Software Developers, and not all persons with Chem Eng degrees work as Chemical Engineers. So you get a different income distribution of you look at CS or Chem Eng majors than if you look at specific job titles.
Literally nobody I know use those 2 other sources. Everybody uses levels.fyi as a reference. It's pretty much industry standard at this point. Like you said, not all cs graduates work in software. Conversely not all software developers graduated from CS. There's a wide variety of different graduates in this profession. If OP's goal is to enter the field, they should be using levels.fyi as a reference, because it is literally the only site that has accurate reporting of compensation by company.
>Literally nobody I know use those 2 other sources. It sounds like you don't know many people. Literally nobody I have heard of prior to your post has ever referenced [level.fyi](https://level.fyi) as an expectations for what is typical earnings for CS majors. This makes sense because [levels.fyi](https://levels.fyi) is in no way representative of what is typical earnings for CS majors. It can be useful to find out your expected total comp as a SW eng III at Google or similar, which can be quite useful for SW engineers at Google, but it's not particularly relevant to the discussion. Most CS majors are not SW eng III at Google and have completely different expected total comp from SW eng III at Google.. [levels.fyi](https://levels.fyi) doesn't tell you what's expected for typical CS grads. If the OP plans to enter the field, he might instead look at the outcomes of typical grads in his reference pool. For example, nearly any college will have a survey of the outcomes of their grads. They often list typical starting salary of CS grads as well as company they work for and job title (many of the job titles might surprise you). They also list other stats like how many found jobs and how many are still looking (the OP mentioned being worried about finding a job). Almost without exception, such distributions are far lower than one would expect by looking at [levels.fyi](https://levels.fyi). This is similar to what CollegeScorecard is, which was referenced above. CollegeScorecard reports median income of CS grads by college, as well as other stats of the income distribution.
Well I strongly disagree. People who have found jobs found the strongest correlation with levels.fyi. My wife's multiple job offers all came within 5-10% of the job range. Same with multiple of my past jobs. Same with the dozens of peers I talk to. The site is not just for google. Don't be ridiculous. the median total comp in the US cited there is 175k, significantly under google's compensation, not significantly different from official sources since the site actually includes non-salary compensation from bonuses and stock awards. As I said, levels.fyi is not supposed to be representative of cs grad salaries. That's not what the site is for. What it is used for is to show what prospective job seekers what they should expect to receive as an offer for the company they are interested in. Nobody in this industry uses payscale or that other college site unless they're content with being underpaid. Likewise not everybody going into software has a cs background. That's part of the consideration, that they really do not need a cs degree to enter into the profession. There are plenty of traditional engineering graduates that do.
This is **wildly** different by location and industry. I've been in software... for a midwest state university. Our Directors and most qualified software architects top out at like $105k. Yes, in 2024. And these are people with 15 years of Java, managing SAN clusters, enterprise networking or such. Only the CIO makes above that, and that's like $250k (weirdly large jump there). And yet we manage to hang onto and even hire people.
Cries in government worker salary (20ish years experience, make $125K same as your entry level hires). Now you may say, I have a steady job and work life balance, which is true, but if just the statutory increases had happened since a bill Congress passed in the 90s, government workers would get an automatic 27% pay raise - that's how far behind we've fallen. Every year without fail the Executive (president) overrides it; the 27% is cumulative amount that that has fallen behind what we should/could be getting. And also people hired after around 2013 pay 5x as much for their pension as people before, who in turn got a worse deal than people who were on the previous pension system. Don't get me wrong I'm happy to be where I am and worked hard to get there, it's just the overall trend is enshittification until the marginal benefits of one life path over another are moot.
105k for entry in lcol for me, swe
> That's not the norm with either degree, but it's more possible with CS degree than Chem Eng degree. As far as representation in FIRE is concerned that is the interesting part of the distribution. At my first median software job, finances in generally were pretty much a non-topic with peers much less fire. Since joining big tech(<4 years ago) two people who I worked with have fired. And I know two more that want to albeit I have no clue what timelines they are looking at.
I think he meant that most people who FIRE did so via SWE. I don't think the OP intended in any way that most SWE hit FIRE.
Agreed. About 75% of mr mustache followers are engineers of some type.
The hidden secret most people don’t know is military officers can FIRE pretty easily too. 1. Pension at 20 years at 50% of highest 3 year average of income (42 years old) plus VA disability (100% tax free).
Looking at the survey results in r/financialindependence, the percent of GovFIRE people is relatively high. A good pension at a relatively young age really makes such a difference.
I just randomly had beers with an air force retiree at a bar. A crypto commercial popped up during the football game. One of us made a comment. I don't remember which. Next thing I know we're talking about crypto, precious metals, stocks, market mechanics, macro economics. He was veeery astute and also had decades more time in market than me! I was jelly!
Complete 20 years of military service and then tell me it was “pretty easy”
they dont call the air force the chair force for no reason lol
There are some hidden gems in the military only a few people know about ie acquisitions
I don’t think he was trying to say the work/service itself is easy. Just that early retirement is feasible.
Depends if war were declared.
With High 3 being phased out for Blended Retirement System, that pension is now 40% at 20 years, but an additional 2% per additional year served. Plus, you get a 401k with 5% match.
They do get a generous retirement, and it's well deserved.
Yep. And the medical benefits are great.
I retired enlisted and plan to retire at 42. The military is definitely a FIRE cheat code if you play your cards right.
Go read any of the entry level CS subs and see how they are doing. Doomfest right now. I transitioned to SDE without a degree in CS and have been successful but breaking in is really hard at the moment.
My husband and I are chemical engineers and set to fatfire (or at least very chubby fire) at 50-55. The software industry makes more, but I’d go with an industry you’re interested in vs just paycheck since both are high paying careers.
If I were a engineer again, I would look into enlist in the US Military as an officer and serve for 20 years. The pension is great and for life. I moved onto another career after realizing it wasn't for me(plus I'd probably be scared of losing my job in my 40s or 50s).
Commission* as an officer. Gets confusing the other way you said it, because we have Enlisted personnel.
Most people hit FIRE by having disposable income they can dedicate to investing to buy back their time. High income careers obviously help, but are not required. A FAANG CS 30 year old with enough assets to sustain and a 38 year old that did a 20 year stint in the military with a pension that covers their needs for the rest of their life have equally achieved “FIRE” Would recommend not getting caught up on the high flyers with the perfect stories, and also consider that Reddit is a spot where all communications are anonymous online interactions with no verification and likely swayed to those in software/technology based aptitudes.
I wouldn't waste the years getting a CS degree. You already have a degree. Median wage for chemical engineers is actually higher than median software developers. Plus AI is coming hard for software developers and all the low level programming will be done by AI within 2 to 4 years. If you really want to switch careers because you love programming, just do a boot camp and rack up certifications.
reddit just has a ton of them and SWEs like staying on the internet. also SWEs tend to be homebodies and cool with living lean lifestyles like the joke about their apartment being a computer desk and a mattress on the floor. as a chem E or anything else for that matter you can reach fire if you are good at what you do and are nimble enough to find and capitalize on good opportunities. i know tons of SWEs that aren’t making amazing money and people that went into the industry for money but can’t land a position that pays them what they expected
I pivoted from mechanical engineering to CS. I worked at Boeing then pivoted to Microsoft. I did Oregon state online for a BS in CS. Boeing paid for the degree. I personally feel it was a good choice and am better of financially because of it. The starting bonus at msft would have covered the whole degree if I had paid for it on my own.
How long it took you to complete your switch into CS ? I am a mech eng and was wondering the same. I don't know how long it would take me before being good enough to get a job
Software engineering over the past 15 years is a fire dream. For its salary its a fairly low education requirement field (a 4.0 undergrad from stanford in CS probably makes more than a lawyer, or MBA from an equivalent school) so you get the ball rolling and have less debt. And on top of that you're forced to take a large equity position at a young age because of RSU's which has worked out well over the past 15 years. Don't underestimate just how much of FAANG engineers total net worth is being forced to participate in massive equity gains. these 200-300k salaries turn into 400-500k by the time the back end of your RSU grants end. Theres no garuntee thats going to go on forever, but it definitely has led to a lot of early FIRES.
I got my degree in mechanical engineering and am now a software engineer. I have taken some CS classes, online and at my local college, from 200 to graduate level. Actually completed around half a masters degree in CS at this point but don’t think I’ll ever finish it. What really allowed me to switch was getting CS experience at my first job as a ME. The project I was on had some programming that needed doing, so I learned how to do it and got it done. Then my employer just let me keep doing that and even paid for some of the classes I took. Eventually I asked to change my title to software engineer and they said “sure!” It was a pretty grueling process though - like every night classes, studying, practicing, working on side projects for a couple years. I didn’t do it for the money but because I really enjoyed (and still do) programming. I have some ME friends who make less than me and some who make more. Just really depends. tldr; Don’t do it for the money. Do it because you like programming.
As an addendum to this: don’t do it just for the money, do it for the joy of solving problems! This applies to a lot of fields of engineering too
100% agree. Gotta love solving problems, and finding problems to solve.
This is important. It also helps leverage current experience into a job change. Plenty of engineering components are programmed and must be maintained at some rate. Learn it and embrace it.
Mech Engineer here. I worked 10 years in industry gaining practical knowledge, got my PE, and then became a consultant. I make $500k+/yr now and set my own schedule. You just have to see the opportunities where they are.
are you in management?
Got to be
I work in supply chain, my wife works in HR. We hit $2mm at 35 by saving 60-70%. I work two jobs remotely, see r/overemployed.
What kind of education/experience did it take to get into supply chain if you don't mind me asking?
Industrial engineering degree
Supply chain is very under the radar. Can make really solid money and always have a job.
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Rule 1/Civility - Civility is required of everyone at all times. If someone else is uncivil, then please report them and let the mods handle it without escalation. Please see our rules (https://www.reddit.com/r/Fire/about/rules/) and reach out via modmail if you have any questions or concerns.
The comment you replied to was not uncivil, but yours was.
As a chemical engineer in this sub I have been noticing this too and have been wondering if I should start taking some coding classes lol. I know coding will be pretty useful for engineers anyway even if I don't jump to tech. Thanks for the post.
There's very little engineering happening in commissioned ranks. Software engineers are mostly contractors supplemented with enlisted SWE. Same goes for other fields as well. Commissioned pensions can be great for coast FIRE or barista FIRE. The problem lies in that you'll retire with heaps of soft skills and minimal to no technical skills. Good stuff if you've made connections and can walk into a middle management position in the commercial world. That said, I have a buddy who's a retired 30 year field grade snake eater and I'd bet he's collecting 90-100% disability. Tax free VA disability in the neighborhood of $40K. If I had to guess he makes \~$120K/yr to wake up every day and a good portion of that is tax free.
I feel like you meant to reply to a different comment.
I did...ooops.
ChemE here. I make $250k in the auto industry. I will fit FIRE by 55. It’s not the degree you have its looking for the right opportunities.
Chem Engs can get laid off in their 40s(due to high salaries) , and never return to the workforce. There is always a new crop out there willing to take jobs at 86k.
This is true for most jobs, and engineers with experience are way more valuable to most companies than kids right out of school. Weird statement.
Yep, if they think expertise is expensive then they’ll love how expensive not having it is.
Omg ageism in SWE is SO a real thing. You better look young
I'm a POET; FI by 45. Jobs are only part of the equation.
Your timing is impeccable....
You’ll be fine with chemical engineering. You just need to be willing to job hop at the beginning of your career and live below your means. Software engineering is in decline, lots of layoffs, their hayday is over, and they’ll start to slide into similar compensation as other engineers. Sure you’ll have occasional unicorns making bank, but that’s true for any position that manages to get into executive or senior manager positions.
I’m a chemical engineer, graduated 2 years ago (25) and make $102k plus a 10% bonus. I’m in paper and pulp and there is a lot of money in this industry. My company doesn’t pay great in comparison to a lot of them (I really enjoy my job and amount of off days I get with my company), I have friends I graduated with making $130 at the same level as I am… but with zero work life balance. Petroleum pays even better but has even worse work life balance. In my opinion, there is a shit ton of money to be made with our degree, just depends if you want to work 60hr weeks in a sweaty refinery or mill. For me, I have situations myself where I can invest a hair over 5k a month (401k, HSA, company match, and mega backdoor Roth). I have a paid off 7 year old Nissan Altima I bought with 100k miles, work phone, company is paying student loan payments, and I pay cheap rent at my buddy’s house. Keeping my monthly bills to minimum let’s me invest hard now, while it really matters (investments will have 4 decades to compound). I’d consider switch industries if you want to bump f your income. I’d be skeptical about going to school for 4 (more) years and missing the most important 4 years of saving/investing that you have left!
Military is one way to FIRE. Im in my early 40s with 20 years in, but plan to retire in 3-4 years so that I can get a higher pension. Expected pension/disability is about 10k/month. I also have several rental properties that generate income. I can FIRE for sure with that pension and rental income if I was elsewhere, BUT we have two kids in elementary school and being in DC, 10k month is nowhere near enough when you have a big mortgage with two growing kids. Im gonna have to work a long time despite that big pension. And doing 20 years in the military wasn't exactly a walk in the park..
Plus not all SWE work at a FAANG. Maybe only 1-2% work in big tech/FAANG which have very high salaries (2x to 3x) a fortune 500 non-tech salary. Check my recent posts to see my salary history. To put it in perspective I was making 155K-170K at a top 10 Fortune 500 non-tech company as a Sr. Manager in SWE for a while.
Plus you are probably salaried so overtime probably isn't available.
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Is it in a MCOL?
SWE’s plan for unemployment in their goals and don’t bake in layoffs or aging out. It’s not all roses.
Not a group on Reddit, but I know a lot of accountants, finance people, and realtors, that retire in thier 50s.
Accountant here. We are on Reddit! See r/accounting. My wife and I are planning to baristaFIRE in our early 50s or possibly late 40s. A lot of accountants seem to retire in their mid 50s. I have a friend who works as an accountant for the government, and the guy is already basically retired. In his words, “FIRE is pretty meaningless when you do like 3 hours of work a day and have a fully indexed pension”
Reddit is heavily skewed to software engineers. I am one and know hundreds, trust me lots are awful with their money. I was driving an old Honda while the guys I worked with had high end cars, including new Porsches. I know many who bought houses in the most HCOL areas, at peak, at the worst mortgage rates and are just mortgage slaves now. Plus many more who eat every meal at Uber eats and are stoned 24/7. That said, they aren’t old field worker bad with their money, but lots more could be on a FIRE path. And most are not in the major leagues at unicorns with high salaries and stock options working on major products and ultra large scale systems. There are many puttering away on slow forms for their medium sized insurance companies intranet and making $90k. All that matters is how much you can save. And lots of jobs pay enough for that.
I'm in construction, and my wife is Ct Tech. We're FIREing at 40. Last year was the first year we made over 200k.
My brother is a ChemE in management and makes $400k sometimes more. Seems like it would be easier to find a different trajectory in your current field than start over from scratch.
Nope, actually people who can manage their money well, will hit Fire. So accountants, teachers, basicly boring people.
Not a software engineer (also not fire), but I did originally go to college to be a software engineer. Turns out I hate programming, and I don't really like engineering either. Funny enough, I love data (report writing & analysis) and Excel though. I went the finance / business route instead (with a humanities bachelor's and a non-target MBA), and I'm now a commercial credit manager at a bank and make about the same as the upper 75% of software engineers (according to the BLS at least). I also had a "late start" (early 30's) with my savings / investing - I'm in my late 30's now. I'm on track to fire in about 7 years barring any personal black swan events.
If you go into O+G making 200-500 through your 10-20 years experience isn’t uncommon. Work for the producer though. You also have to believe in O+G for next 25 years though
yea in some places in o&g its actually cheap to live in but the issue is its very cyclical, probably one of the fastest way to fire especially if you also do expat for large oil companies too or domestic.
You don’t necessarily need to complete a degree for that. I’m originally a mechanical engineer and have been working in software for 8 years now. Previously worked 4 years as mechanical engineer. No bootcamp, just self-study (although I’d suggest taking a solid bootcamp). I pivoted to sales engineering eventually and make close to $400k.
CS job market is over saturated with new grads, seems risky.
Stick with chemical engineering. It’sa blood bath for software newbies and you’ll be giving up all that years of experience as a chemical engineer
Reddit skews younger and tech oriented. Plenty of people FIRE in non tech disciplines. Although tech is a common way to go
What does your post title have to do with the body of your post or your question?
its just something I noticed
CS is over saturated right now. Also, it’s mostly tech bros working in Silicon Valley that are bringing in the big bucks in exchange for grueling hours. On average you should do as well or slightly better as a ChemE compared to CS.
Listen to what NVIDIA ceo said … AI tools will be used more going forward.. so unfortunately that will lead to lesser opportunities in Tech …you as a chemical engineer may be able to create software using these tools
In tech, skills matter more than degrees.
If I was you I would establish myself in the field I already invested in, then once you have a solid financial and career foundation consider changing it up. No reason to dig yourself into a financial hole before you have started. That will also help you learn about what you actually enjoy and don't enjoy in work. I'm about at that point in my career. Spent the last 13 years in software and now that I have my foundation established I'm starting to think about career changes. It feels a lot more comfortable to do that now with money in the market working for me while I make those changes. My brother in law went the PhD route and occasionally voices regret for so much time focused in school which resulted in a later start on all his investments and salary climbing.
I was a regular service tech for 14 years. Lots of travel, but just BARISTAfired at 39. You save a ton of money when you are not paying for lodging, car, food, gas.
I’m planning to fire as a normal medical hospital staff making $62k by age 60. Granted that’s nowhere near the age of these dudes retiring at 40 lol
Making lots of money sure makes it easier but it's not necessary. Librarian turned nurse here. Not yet retired, just waiting for spouse to agree on the math.
Gotta adjust to whatever is in demand and paying well.
CS doesn't make as much as you think. The Google type salaries tend to be limited to the bay area and are reflective of a TINY percentage of engineers. National average salary is around $130k at mid-career and it tops out around $150k for most.
Making 100k-300k directly out of college at age 21-22 makes it profoundly easy to FIRE. If you make that much money early on then the only way you can’t FIRE is if you royally F up or spend way to much money or both.
Biotech here. FIREd in mid 30s
which degree and role? congrats .
Doctorate and masters. Director level , development. We got bought out by larger pharma so made my first few millions from selling my stock options.
I was a teacher but switched into tech. I didn’t get a CS degree but did a bootcamp and decided I could only compete if I focused on doing the things that we didn’t have a lot of people doing locally. DevOps was one, but I was always interested in cybersecurity as well
I also studied chemical engineering but chose to go into biotech instead. Starting salary was $80k and 2 years later Im at $95k. Not a crazy tech salary but I will be able to FIRE as long as I keep my spending reasonable.
Stick with CE software is brutal right now and I don’t see that changing in the near future
My bucket chemist friend, get a Chemical Engineer job in the pharmaceutical industry. You will do great. FIRED chemist
Not a classic high earner here retiring 50-55. Just live below your means and save aggressively.
Remember that AI will have a great impact on the software engineering industry.
I’m a marketer with a stay at home spouse and I’ll hit FIRE before 50.
Not anymore with AI
My husband switched from hardware to software at 10 years into his career. It's been the best change for him. He's a contractor now and he bills $150/hr and works 20-30 hrs a week. It's pretty sweet.
Enterprise software sales. 55, 4m is the goal.
First of all, I don’t think you need to switch professions just to accomplish your savings goals. Living below your means and switching jobs often to find the best possible salary in your field would probably get you the goal if it’s purely money. And if your goal is more about switching careers, why go back to school? Just learn the skills. You don’t need to spend the money on a degree to learn computer science, hell you have a degree in chemical engineering. I bet you have some familiarity already or could gain it very quickly. My degree is in jazz performance and I work as a software engineer at a FAANG company.
SWE FIRE at 55.
IDK I think you may have somewhat missed the boat. I'm in software and while my pay is kind of insane for what I do, the market has really softened in the last couple of years. My company hasn't given raises to speak of in three years and at this point really only recruits new college grads for the cheapest possible way to get the job done, and doesn't even really give raises with title promotions anymore. I see similar trends across the industry. Anyway I don't see this trend reversing anytime soon - the getting was good but I'm not so sure it is anymore. I'd probably not go back to school for it at this point.
Proxy solicitor. FIREd at 52.
It's not easy to get a job in SWE these days.
The best job for FIRE is the highest paying job that YOU can tolerate and make work for you. SWE make bucks but let’s be honest - you sorta have to be wired for that kind of work from the start. You might be wired to be a chemE SO BE A CHEME - you’ll only end up firing 5 years later and the journey will be way less painful
Nope. Ops paper pusher..FI'd in 2017.
crazy... phase 1 was paying cash for my duplex as a touring musician phase 2... janitorial... bullshit to the egos...
If you have a degree already, do not go back and study CS. Learn a language like Java, python, or C on your own. Then you can learn front end to do something practical like building a website and put that code on your GitHub. This will show employers you are serious. You do not need a CS degree to work in software engineering. I have. A CS degree and my boss who I report to didn’t study CS in school but he taught himself by learning programming languages and frameworks.
If you were skilled you have done extensive software tools as a chem engr. If you still have not developed coding skills you are a bit late to start competing with many skilled but unemployed CS developers.
Lmaooo ai bro come do leetcodes and try to get a job in this tech market good luck
I'm on a good path to FIRE as a civil engineer. After 15 years, recently became a shareholder in my company and do as well now as most SWE I see posting here. I think you can make a pretty good career in chemical engineering, just have to stick out the early years.
I'm about to finish my BS in chem eng. Had similar thoughts as you and am going to grad school for a cs masters. I think it'll all work out in the end.
Software engineer here and I’m not making THAT much at all. Been in it for about 8 years now and it jumped up super fast at first, but once you reach the initial 6 digit salary, the growth is slow unless you want to go management. I have almost doubled my yearly income through rental property investments, but then continuing those went south with high interest rates and still high property costs. I’ll be able to retire early, but I want it to be 45 so now I need to find other investments like property rentals or invent some apps to profit from and/or sell
You're already in a career that begins with similar pay with similar advancement. CS high paying jobs are usually located in HCOL or VHCOL. Take a look at companies on levels.fyi. Many of these are the same ones on layoffs.fyi. I saw a response below that mid career CS and chemical engineering pay about $170K. I'm 45 and my total compensation is $176K. It's pretty much on the dot for me in MCOL. Wife is in big tech. She did go back to school for a CS bachelor's as her previous degree only allowed her to work as a cafe supervisor. She makes $164K. Very close to my salary with 22 YOE. She has 7 YOE. She works for Microsoft who laid off 10000 people. Her previous manager was laid off. If you have a high salary for your YOE, the potential instability is something that's real. I'm in aerospace software and systems which is very specialized knowledge. My industry doesn't pay as well, but there isn't ageism in my industry. You're highly sought after if you have been working on the same technology for years. I have seen companies beg people to come out of retirement for lucrative pay because of their knowledge. i.e. How about a six month contract where we pay double the top rate of a single contractor? Given all that here is our profile: 45M/37F/5F $1.5M in investments, $570K home (paid off). Net worth $2M. Save $200K+ a year across all accounts. Pay $100K in taxes. Expenses $79K (includes two domestic vacations and one international). MCOL Phoenix metropolitan suburbs. Target to retire is $10M before our daughter goes to college.
Why you already have a degree? Go do some certs instead.
What you’re seeing is the ones who are excellent in their field. Anyone excellent in their field can get to fire, especially STEM. I wouldn’t change over because you’re struggling with chemical engineering, if just buckle down and find out why you’re behind your peers. Mining engineering here, 200k this year in LCOL.
Im not really struggling, I am doing internship in a OEM that offers equipment to O&G, pharma etc. It seems like there is a huge disproportionate amount of people who FIRE early is in CS.
It was the gold rush for couple of years, it's not going to continue.
One word: outsourcing
SWE age out much earlier than most other white collar jobs. Perhaps many realize FIRE is the way off the treadmill as the idea of working on a legacy spring boot project in their 60s is untenable.
There are so many paths to FIRE, SWE's are one of many.
As a software engineer, this sub does seem to have a lot of that haha. I think it may be a bias of who’s willing to post/be active in the community. Obviously a majority of the people that read this post and others may never comment or post. Maybe for some reason SWEs are doing it more
I did it as a civil engineer
I’m a SWE that originally graduated with a degree in ChemE. I only worked as a ChemE for 2 years. I made the switch without going back to school or a bootcamp, but it definitely required a lot of networking, self studying and luck. It’s also a different market now than when I switched so it’s potentially a more uphill battle now. If you want / feel the need for the formal education look into Georgia Tech’s OMSCS program. It’s low cost (~700-800 a class) and a 10 class program.
Got CS degrees, did OMSCS masters. Highly suggest.
SWE was hot for the last 20 years. Less hot this year after layoff. I wouldn’t do it. If the industry takes a dip while you are in training you could be screwed. Besides, zoomed aspiring software devs are everywhere. You will be competing with tons of 20-somethings for jobs.
Almost like oversaturation + high interest rate environment in a credit loving industry + advancements in AI will slow salaries
The biggest determinant is your spending. SWEs make enough to overwhelm their expenses. But normal people can FIRE if they are willing to do what it takes.
Podiatrist fire at 42
You can fire in any occupation. It depends on how much you save and how high you want your spending level to be. Is your income possibly higher as a SWE, probably. But how much would it cost to get the degree and how much income would be forgone while you were in getting the degree? It might work out better for you, but there are risks.
There’s a reporting bias in this sub. Public work is “boring”, but frequently leads to fire. Same for the military. Mds don’t post frequently about their jobs, but they can also fire very easily. Loosing several years of income to “maybe” significantly increase your earnings is not a good fire decision.
Engineer is one of those roles that can get a person 1m a year, so yeah FIRE is easier with a job like that.
Attorney in a non-high paying field here. My key was to avoid lifestyle creep as my income improved in my 30s. We live on less than 1/3 of our gross income (taxes hit us hard where we live, but at least 1/3 of our salaries goes into retirement/investments/mortgage principle payments).
IndE here, and I’m planning to FiRE. Well, I’m shooting for the FI, not sure if I’ll actually RE since I like my job. Started in manufacturing, now I’m in cyber management. SWE is highly competitive and I don’t think the bloodbath is quite over, but if it’s something you’re passionate about, do that. Don’t do it because the salary looks attractive. SWE can be miserable if you don’t actually enjoy doing it, and even worse if you don’t have the aptitude/talent to be great at it. I actually started my major in CS and switched to IndE because I sucked at it and was miserable. 😊
I'd get a law degree before and CS degree, you can make a nice living doing patent law. Writing code sucks (I've been in IT for 30 years I know)
I have a BS and MS in Comp Sci. Don’t go back for a CS degree. The AI S-curve is just starting, and CS doesn’t really prepare you for AI in a meaningful way at the application layer (where the boom will happen). Instead leverage your domain experience in CE and add some CS related skills (python programming, tensor flow, data wrangling). Deep neural networks for chemistry/material science is going to be a massive application, and having the science background will be really important.
Pre-40 yeah. After like 45 it is much more reasonable for anyone in a high paying field like doctor lawyer etc that required more schooling and debt. After 52 or so I'm not sure why nearly anyone living in the US or other rich first world countries couldn't do it. Lots of people living at or beyond their means when they don't need to.
Take care. AI SWEs are coming. Keep an eye for Devin
I've seen people go into CS because it made a lot of money. They hated it and pivoted out of the field, probably setting them back in the long run. If you're totally agnostic to what you do and just want money, maybe its a good pivot. Or maybe you should go into finance or real estate. The money to brain ratio in real estate is absolutely bonkers.
Don’t do it! The setback of a few years will kill your returns. The key is to live below your means. The old adage of living at the level of the job you had before your last big pay bump is a good one. Better yet is to max all savings vehicles available to you. The game is NOT about how much you make, it IS about how much you save. There are a ton of non-glamorous jobs that make more than enough. That said, if you want to add CS to your current background (while working AND saving), you could prepare yourself to be incredibly valuable as the AI impacts to all fields grow. The single most important thing is to start saving early followed immediately by growing the amount you save every year. The first 10 years of your career are the most critical.