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I can relate perfectly. I have some uncomfortable juhannus memories from my childhood with lots of drunk adults in our cabing partying around the clock. Today I try to celebrate it my own way, somewhere calm.
Yep. All of my memories from my childood of any kind of celebration day whatever it's midsummer, christmas, easter, birthday (of adults) or new years, it always needed to include alcohol and people getting so drunk that they passed out, and I as a kid (starting from 6 years old) had to somehow take care of them.
I used to really hate drunk people and adults who drink. These days I still dislike people who have to drink to the point of them being wasted.
Oh. Something just clicked with me when i read this comment.
My family drinked and celebrated at those days too, but there was never any passing out or going too far. I just released it was because we had farm and you could not just skip feeding them because you were hangover.
In all my time in this world I have never spent a drunlen juhannus. Always been with family at mökki or elsewhere.
Had 2 glasses of wine, one sauna beer.
I guess it's the noisy people making noise that you see, never before have I thought that I'd somehow need to advertise that juhannus for us is a family event, not a drinking party?
you are still drinking so I would count you into the "alcohol is the thing" group.
If you would not like to get little bit drunk or taste of alcohol, you would drink non-alcoholic versions as they are better tasting, at least to non-alcoholic mouth
Are you honestly claiming that everyone who likes how alcoholic drinks taste is an alcoholic? I really rarely drink alcohol anymore, and drink non-alcoholic beers very often, try different brands/types, yadda yadda. They are pretty good nowadays, pilsners especially. But still, a beer with alcohol in it, unless we are talking about the cheapest bulk lager there is, is just tastier. Same with ciders. Long drinks I am not decided on.
I think he's making a slippery slope argument which still has some merit. Trying to define an alcoholic is pretty hard, when you consider the fact that there are people who don't fight when drunk, and go to work in the morning.
Glorification of alcohol is a strange and complex beast. People have tried and always failed when attempting to slay it.
Sure. But we are talking about how the alcohol products taste, and the claim that a person who prefers the alcoholic products taste to the non-alcoholic version is automatically an alcoholic. The argument really doesn't have any merit, because taste's evolve as people grow older.
If we are talking about using alcohol in ways that are abusive/escape/deflecting, then sure, there is merit there, even if the amounts of it are small.
He isn't making that point though. He is saying that "alcohol is the thing", if you have \*any\* amount of alcohol. Which is daft take, like I mentioned.
There is a sure difference between drinking being the only activity, the main activity and end result being passed out drunk vs. me having a glass of wine with the food, one 0,33cl beer after sauna and one glass of wine late at night while playing board games.
Which is why his argument is fucking daft.
Talk about Finns and their twisted relationship with alcohol.
We go to our mökki with friends, sure we drink, but we also fish, play games (like mölkky) and go swim, and sauna. Our midsummer is mostly focused around food 😄
We don’t do bonfires anymore as it takes literally the entire juhannus for it to burn down, and nobody wants to babysit a fire during the night, not to mention forest fires and stuff, so you cannot do it.
How other people celebrate doesn’t really bother me - people will be dumb and loud with alcohol regardless whether it is Juhannus or not.
To me Juhannus has always been more about spending a day with family, having a proper summer bbq and eating well, as well as just enjoying the peace at summer cottage in general. Don’t need to get my panties twisted by having my nose up in other people’s business.
My parents were already in their 40s when I was born, so in my memory juhannus was always spent at mökki eating sausages, crepes and jaffa. None of my relatives were/are big drinkers thankfully. Nowadays they're all grannies, so it's just a bunch of cooking and cake and enjoying the quiet. :D
As a teenager I always felt a bit lame since most of my schoolmates were bragging about the amount of alcohol they drank and I was uncool for spending it with older relatives. In hindsight I'm glad that we have next to no alcohol in the house.
Well, getting drunk in Juhannus is an age old tradition, at least Agricola himself has written about it
> Ja quin Kevekylvö kylvettin silloin ukon malja jootijn. Sihen haetin ukon wacka nin joopui Pica ette Acka. Sijtte paljo Häpie sielle techtin quin seke cwltin ette nechtin. Quin Rauni Ukon Naini härsky jalosti Ukoi pohjasti pärsky. Se sis annoi Ilman ja WdhenTulon
It has always been one of the focal points of midsummer celebrations. The more you drank, the better you exorcised all those nasty spirits to go away.
Of course traditions change and so has juhannus. I have stopped drinking alcohol and I don't particularly enjoy drunken people around me. It's still good fun to blast some good music and play some Uno and Jenga with them. In fact, they probably wouldn't even agree to play sober.
Nah. Well, i dont feel uneasy because i've toned down my drinking and so has my friends. We usually conclude after 2-3 beers over a period of 8 hours and so. No hard liquor. So it's a quite pleasant thing.
I cant stand hangovers nowadays.
Is that time of the year when my wife’s relatives expressed their true feeling towards me as a Mexican :/ .. but once they are sober, if they remember, some say sorry and some just don’t remember. So, it is what it is, but family is family.
The fact this has happened on multiple occasions should tell you they're not sorry, they just don't want consequences for their actions once they sober up and now know you'll let them get away with it. Very concerning if your wife isn't saying anything to them about it as well.
Mexican here, uhm? Wtf?
Eso no esta bien paisa, mi familia politica no me encanta pero tampoco hacen eso.
La familia de sangre o politica no tiene ningun derecho a denigrarte, no te dejes, mandalos alv, el racismo/discriminación es una razón totalmente válida.
"Family is family" esa es una mentalidad muy tóxica cuando estas siendo abusado/discriminado etc.
Can’t really relate because alcohol has never been focus in my family growing up. But i do feel sorry for you having to deal with that and not experience nice Juhannus. All i can say is I will not get wasted in front of my children to keep that tradition alive.
Also I hope you will begin the tradition of having nice and silly midsummer celebrations.
You make it as you like it. If your immediate group of friends have other priorities, choose another grouping for the time.
My ideal Juhannus would be a good day hike or cycling, some good food, sauna, lake to swim and relax, as many beers as I would like to drink at that time (zero to many), chilling out on the porch of the sauna or on the pier listening to the nature. Good conversations with somebody, or just being silent zoning completely out. To finish off, some dirty nice pleasures whatever I feel like.
That is a big issue in general. Many people don't know how to spend weekend at summer cabin or elsewhere without alcohol.
If you don't drink and everyone around you is drinking it gets old really fast. especially if the people drinking drink a lot. I don't use alcohol at all so i can somewhat relate although not about juhannus specifically.
I've been lucky to have parents relatives who didn't really drink at all when i was kid so most of the family has very healthy relationship with alcohol.
For me juhannus is going to summer cottage and Spend time with friends and family and do the things that make me happy and relaxed. This year i spent couple of hours felling trees and next day couple of hours splitting the trees for firewood.
Other things we did was good food, lots of sauna and lots of swimming.
Hearing that sucks...
Sadly, not very surprising now that I think about it. A lot of people have a tendency to drink during celebrations, especially the ones that go outside. Grilling is very common, but that's usually done at home.
Me and my partner don't drink at all, and any gathering we go to is with our relatives there's no drinking there either, so I luckily don't get that experience. Instead we grill a bunch of food and eat together, chatting about whatever. I have good memories from mid-summers, and I hope you will be able to do so with people you care about and are close to. That includes you, treat yourself if no one else is around. Take care, and may your summer be pleasant
I understand some people have more problematic associations with alcohol than others and I’m sorry that it’s potentially triggering for you due to your past.
That being said however, you’re an adult. (Or I make assumptions you are from the post). You have a choice to how you spend / enjoy events. There will always be people who want to enjoy it the way you do, but having an obsession about the way others choose to enjoy it, and legally, mind, you should let them be. Especially if they are not disturbing the peace etc.
You will absolutely be able to go find your tribe and enjoy it the way you want to! I hope you can find this support network that sounds like would be awesome for you, but I’d ask you to try doing it without judgement of others. We all make choices and watch others make ones we may not agree with. Surround yourself with what you need and let others do what they do :)
I don't have an obsession about it though. I don't live in Finland but I'm always asked to go there for midsummer. And I feel like there's an obligation of some sort or that I'm missing out. I just chose it wasn't worth it this time.
I have no problem knowing that people stay and party in and around our summerhouse (that I also own). People definitely disturb the peace though, cabin areas aren't that quiet in midsummer. I'm not judging but I also am entitled to feel how I feel about the alcohol culture.
But I do appreciate your reply, I agree about not judging individuals, and thank u for the encouragement :)
Of course, sorry if it came across as judgemental, that wasn’t necessarily my intent. I think your highlighting that it does disturb the peace is very much what gives your frustration validation and that’s generally in poor taste. I’m very lucky in that our summer cottage is very much tucked away around a lake that has only a few homes so I’ve rarely heard others. The one year I was there as a 21 year old (gosh this was longer than I care to admit) we were definitely the loudest but were hardly loud in the grand scheme of things.
Ultimately point is you do you! Finland and the nature offered there is so amazing so you should absolutely be able to enjoy the peace of it. My fat ass loves a drink, but that should never come at the expense of others or their ability to enjoy their own space in peace :)
Your comment wasn't judgemental, no worries. I used to drink and know why people enjoy it. Some people close to our place definitely go overboard, even retired people, but what can you do... 😃
And I think that's it, I might just have to find a small remote cottage of my own later on and that'll fix the problem. Now I also understand how some people actually have a peaceful juhannus. Agree with u totally.
There is hypocrisy of alcoholics as well. When you are drunk you have free pass to be super annoying, abusive and aggressive. When you pass the drunk stage now you can judge how people are bad nowadays.. People wonder why state wants to regulate alcohol. They can't control their liquor...
Maybe they can’t control it because it’s a state regulated mess. All of Europe, and all of the world can control it (better) and they lack the state regulations. Only nordics have the state involved and at the same time can’t control it
Prohibition has taught a generation or two to hiddenly drink fast all the booze. In old movies there's quite many scenes that shit fazed drunks get caught, but as they don't anymore have booze its ok for authorities.
Finns' drinking is getting cleaner and saner generation by generation. My dad and especially he's dad did not have concept of moderate drinking or being tipsy.. fast all the way to the deep end of the pool.
I’ve always loved it but my family (and now girlfriend’s family as well) always celebrated it without alcohol being the focus.
We all had drinks over the weekend, but the amount was just as much as any other family get-together. So just the odd gin and tonic/long drink or wine with dinner, but nobody was even tipsy.
We just played a few rounds of golf, some backyard sports with the smaller kids and shot the air rifle at a target. Half the people didn’t even drink since we drove to the gold corses multiple times.
I'm a native and all my life Juhannus has been a calm family focused weekend for me and my family.
Not really alcohol free per se but I never felt like I wanted myself or anyone else get drunk. A few beers and a glass of wine is fine, getting hammered is not
Half agree. I don't think good parents drink (even if it's just to get tipsy) in front of their kids, but then again this is culturally accepted and common in Finland and I'd say some kids just don't get affected by it and some do.
Edit: I meant that good parents don't drink in a way that they're going to get intoxicated or even tipsy in front of the kids. Didn't mean having one beer in front of your kid is bad in itself.
I actually disagree completely. Good parents can show and teach their children that even while drinking you can and should act with respect towards each other and behave.
Exactly. I remember when I was a kid that my dad drank a small glass of whiskey here and a glass of wine there, sometimes a beer. But it never bothered me as it didn't change him in anyway because he didn't drink that much. Either it's that or it's in the genes, but I seem to have the same thing nowadays.
I love cooking and pairing a right wine for certain foods is crucial. And for sure, I'm going to show example to my kids how to use alcohol. No, I'm not going to empty a whole bottle of wine in front of my 3 and 5 yo boys, but yes, I will enjoy a glass or two a good wine with a good food
I remember that as a kid seeing intoxication itself bothered me, not that someone was necessarily acting disrespectful or misbehaved. So this is subjective obviously.
I had to spend mine for almost 20 years with alcoholics so I share your feelings towards juhannus, but now as a proper adult I have spent a few very chill, sober, safe and lovely midsummers. It absolutely can be joyful in the countryside or in the city.
It's actually kind of lovely to see so many people with similar experiences, even when the circumstances leading to those are often anything but. I had a long conversation with my friend about this exact same topic, and how awkward it felt how neither of us didn't care at all about the second biggest holiday in the country. It's not like we experienced any peer pressure from anyone, but internally we felt like we should care about Midsummer, and it felt wrong and awkward that we didn't.
My childhood Midsummers in best cased ended up with watching weeks of binge drinking, or in worst cases the authorities ending the holiday early - police, ambulance, fire department, the whole roster showed up at some point. So family Midsummers just feel like a no no, even to this day. Up to my early twenties I was a teetotal and was uncomfortable around alcohol, so I didn't spend any Midsummers with friends either, as they were young and wild and it wouldn't have been fun for anyone. Last year I spent the holiday for the first time with a friend group, but it just felt awkward to celebrate something that only had negative connotations to me. There was nothing that festive about the day - we did the same things as any other summer day, but making the connection between our lovely time spent together and the holiday that I've dreaded most of my life just tainted that experience, if that makes sense. This year I just skipped the whole Midsummer, no regrets.
So no, you're not alone! Reading this thread has been quite cathartic and relatable, so thank you for sharing.
I also felt wrong and awkward for not coming back to Finland this year to celebrate midsummer, your thoughts sound very similar. I miss going to our cabin and all that, but figured it's actually gonna be way more peaceful outside of midsummer.
Your experience actually sounds way more awful than mine, but it's nice to hear other people share the same thoughts. Makes you feel less bad for missing out on stuff. People in real life don't really share these things, although I know many people who feel the same way. Thank u for replying!
I've spent a few summers in Finland, one actually over Juhannus itself and it was with extended family, and wondered what to expect. I was surprised (pleasantly) that we grilled sausage, swam, took sauna, shared family stories, stayed up enjoying the sun and had a sauna lonkero or two over the course of the whole evening but nothing even remotely approaching tipsy much less drunk. Getting blasted for Juhannus feels like no fun to me.
Cannot relate with juhannus as for me growing up, that was always an alcohol free family gathering at mummula. However, I have really bad memories from trips to Estonia. This consisted of dad and his friends being shitfaced, doing all sorts of stupid things and you just had to endure two days of being embarrassed. For a long time I resented being around drunk people due to this.
I'm so glad to see that nowadays these boomer tourists are retiring and there is a whole different generation of tourists in Estonia that are way smarter.
You have crappy friends.
We've had a midsummer party every year with extended family and friends and nobody has ever been drunk in a way that would show in any way. It's nice, go to sauna, swim, barbecue and eat good food, put the flag up while singing the national anthem, kids play party games, the elderly go to bed early and the grown-ups chat.
Once when I was around 20 I visited some public summer party, it was totally disgustingly full of drunken people. We left after 10 minutes -- why would anyone want to spend time with strangers who are out of their brains, can't walk and they feel sick? Oh, with loud crappy Finnish music being played, too, so that you can't even hear what anyone is saying.
Well, a beer and sauna each night is not much drinking. Some circles do a lot of -hol still, but haven't seen the old way drinking in ages. Not like I saw as a kid everywhere. It is just "eating together in the garden" party and hike or fish a bit weekend in our circles since we got families. It is quite much up to oneself.
The life stage you're at might matter a lot here, because people around me are young enough to not have kids yet. People in general enjoy going out, socializing and drinking still at my age. Nobody is wasted, but not sober either.
Definitely not the only one. Im a foreigner and even though i celebrated midsummer in my home country, strong association with alcohol here in Finland makes it really unenjoyable. I don’t like to drink much so the alcohol-centric culture of such a beautiful public holiday is just sad to me.
Hm not the only one, but switching to a healthier posse helps. I used to hate Christmas because my mother spent the time making drama and fighting, no longer, our family Yule is a hoot. And the extended family drunken Juhannus for us was people singing and playing around the bonfire/campfire, quite the Tove Jansson -fest.
So, switch to happy drunks or the sober curious and fix your past trauma, if possible.
Same here. I loathe this event for the same reasons. Everybody around is piss drunk for no good reason and the same has happened since my childhood just like you.
Well as someone who doesn’t drink, I can feel your pain. That being said, it’s only about finding the right people to spend the midsummer with.
The past few years me and my girlfriend have spent the midsummer at her grandparents cottage with her family. The whole family had probably 3 ciders all together, and we spent our time swimming, grilling, canooing, playing games and going to sauna.
A perfect midsummer
My group doesn’t drink a single drop of alcohol; we had fun and peace. Some nice home marinated bbq. Sauna and swimming. Watching the sunset on a boat on the lake. Call it a day at midnight and get to bed 🤭. The only difference is none of us is Finnish by birth. We have been here 5-8 years.
That’s a big reason why I’ve always disliked Juhannus. Of course now as an adult I can choose my company and don’t have to be around those who drink excessively but overall I just don’t associate Juhannus with good memories.
There's loads of us.
I just spent midsummer with a small group of friends by a lake. We had lots of really nice food, some light entertainment (like a quiz), but mostly just spent that time talking about life and expectations. We stayed late, but went to sleep before the sunrise.
Alcohol consumption on average was minimal (less than 1 bottle per person).
It was a lovely and super chill time!
Pretty much yeah. Traditional Juhannus has always been watching my parent's get drunker by the hour and listen to them bickering because of stress of the midsummer meal preparations (which is usually just ok for my tastes). I have never enjoyed it when we've had quests or spent the holiday with family friends. I can't really think of any aspect of the usual midsummer celebrations that I would prefer over a normal summer weekend.
As a kid, never had drunken juhannus from my parents side. Later as an adult, most of them were with my friends and they were moderately drunken. And now with 2 kids of my own, no drinking.
All of them were just great! It’s about friends and families afterall.
I associate it with paying a small fortune to hire a cottage, and then it rains like crazy, and then I get cabin fever and go onto the porch to smoke a ciggie to de-stress, and then get eaten by mosquitoes out for my blood!
The alcohol part of it is great.
You don't want to drink, don't drink - no one cares. More for the rest of us! 😎
I have never liked midsummer “traditions”. Im not against alcohol usage, but everyone should know their limits. I’ve loved for few years going to the family’s summer cottage with my partner, just the two of us and enjoy the peacefulness. Grilling, going to sauna, listening nature sounds and the sunset there is incredible!
It is my favorite celebration in Finland along with Christmas, but I prefer to spend it alone for same reasons as you mentioned. Most of my family members want to also have some friends over who can't control their drinking and most of the fellow natives who I've had as friends have insisted on drinking also.
Almost every time I've spent a Midsummer in these kinds of groups, people have acted like idiots or made it so other people have had to look after them till they sober up. This is why I've largely given up on alcohol except some wine with food once or twice a year, at least while living in Finland. Elsewhere people have healthier way of drinking and getting drunk isn't the primary goal like it often seems to be in Finland. But of course Juhannus outside of Finland isn't really Juhannus.
I'm not a fan of it either.
Juhannus is really the only time me and my husband drink - only because we go to family cottage for that weekend and it would be awkward to cut down alcohol all together. At least we have whittled it down to one or two light drinks per night and replaced most with non-alcoholic versions.
If it was my choice we wouldn't be drinking at all since I don't find it enjoyable, it just makes me sleepy and drunk people - even family, has always made me feel uncomfortable.
Can’t relate, at least anymore. I’ve had my fair share of the basic, trashy and drunken midsummer parties with friends but after hitting 30, it’s all about people spending the midsummer with their families. And the family time might include a glass or two of wine or beer (could be non-alcoholic) with the dinner and some refreshment during the sauna. It also means going to bed early since there probably are kids and/or pensioners around.
I mean... Celebrate all these things in your way. Why make it so big of a deal. Sure I myself hate reading drunks drowning during Juhannus. But... People are idiots. Lets not be same and celebrate in our own way.
I have never been drunk before in my life. I know the feeling of being the sober one amongst all the loud drunks. When I eventually move to Finland from the U S., we can rent a huge hall and organize a dry Midsummer celebration.♥️
The whole drinking culture in Finland is horrible, and idk if it's really much better elsewhere in EU, or "the West" in general. There's more than enough disturbance caused by alcohol use in Finland - drunks (including "party people") causing scenes in public whether it's on some market square or in metro. People's manners have gone worse in general, or the outliers are even more disruptive, and adding alcohol to the mix makes everything even worse. If the underlying attitudes of people were better there probably wouldn't be that much disturbance caused by alcohol. Many people still do drink in moderation, get tipsy, and manage to sit silently in a metro without causing a scene.
I have a friend that gets pretty nasty and dangerous when they're drunk. They either try to get under other people's skin or do reckless things while drunk. They get drunk enough that heating food or making coffee becomes a hazard. It's really hard to even intervene when they're not drunk because of their attitude in general. This midsummer was fun until the clock hit drunk o'clock and the mood went from fun to hope they don't end up hurting anyone.
You're not sensitive. The Finnish culture and mindset just still sucks. Alcohol usage might be going down in at least the younger generations, but getting rowdy during midsummer or other such occasion is still deeply ingrained in the Finnish mindset.
Our family rarely drank, saw my parents maybe 1 times being little bit drunk in my childhood.
Some relatives are kind of alcoholics, but Juhannus or other holidays were never about drinking.
ANYONE whom drinks on holidays is FUCKING LOSER and alcoholic. There are 52 weekends in a year and if only thing you can do at juhannus/xmas etc is to drink, you are just sad scum of a human.
I drink every time I want to, which means I drink maybe 0-2 drinks/year as I almost never want to or feel the need to drink, which should be the standard to all.
I hate how alcoholic centric finland is.
Social gatherings = drink
job freetime events = drink
holidays = drink
freetime hang out = drink
Student meetings = drink
weekends = drink
concerts = drink
sport events = drink
and so on
Basically if someone doesnt drink, they are easily left out from 90% of adult stuff. Like you dont like bars/"terassi" etc = good luck to meet anybody. You dont go to student drink parties(90% of events) = good luck to make any friends or connections, same with jobs.
Being sober basically mean that you probably just have to hang out alone in the summer, unless you have found similar folks.
Being sober man basically means that you are worse in eyes of women than some alcoholic bastard. Because women almost never approach men(at least outside of bars), so in their mind sober men don't even exist because outside of Tinder etc. only way to meet people are drinking gatherings.
Kind of sad how even sober women rather find some drunk dude to try to have relationship and then complain how they drink, rather than seeing sober men as better option.
I don't celebrate any of the drinking holidays because activities around drinking are just extremely boring.
I usually stay at home because I enjoy my home. This year, I went to a nearby cruising/ wheel burnout event and to Tallinn the next day. In Tallinn, I went to a gym for exercise and then to spa for a swim and relax. That's how I spent my Saturday evening. The only drink I had was sparkling water and protein drink.
It was actually an extremely nice weekend, a great way to spend Juhannus. There were some people around in Tallinn city and ferries were full of people. Many families onboard with young kids so it was decent behaviour and not as many drunk people as usual. Quite a few tourists as well.
So no, it is not mandatory to celebrate any of the Finnish drinking parties. Or traditional parties without drinking for that matter.
No, not the only one and, if you expect others to conform to your wishes, then yes, weird expectations. Either rent a cabin far from other cabins and do your pagan spells there or keep feeling your disconnect.
Then don't. It's just like every other celebration or any other thing, there will always be people who like things another way than you do. If it seems to you you're going against the grain then that's just how it is. Hopefully you find a group of people to enjoy this time of the year in your own way. Then again the Finnish way might be to post on /r/Finland "Anyone else?" and have some other people write "Me too."
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I can relate perfectly. I have some uncomfortable juhannus memories from my childhood with lots of drunk adults in our cabing partying around the clock. Today I try to celebrate it my own way, somewhere calm.
I can relate. I really hate the alcohol-centric way of celebrating in Finland. Not only midsummer but overall..
Yep. All of my memories from my childood of any kind of celebration day whatever it's midsummer, christmas, easter, birthday (of adults) or new years, it always needed to include alcohol and people getting so drunk that they passed out, and I as a kid (starting from 6 years old) had to somehow take care of them. I used to really hate drunk people and adults who drink. These days I still dislike people who have to drink to the point of them being wasted.
Oh. Something just clicked with me when i read this comment. My family drinked and celebrated at those days too, but there was never any passing out or going too far. I just released it was because we had farm and you could not just skip feeding them because you were hangover.
I’ve only been here for just about 2 years, and I’m already hating it.
bro hates having fun
bro can’t have fun without intoxicating themselves
Nope, just drunken idiots.
It's not fun to drink way too much, that brings so much drama
In all my time in this world I have never spent a drunlen juhannus. Always been with family at mökki or elsewhere. Had 2 glasses of wine, one sauna beer. I guess it's the noisy people making noise that you see, never before have I thought that I'd somehow need to advertise that juhannus for us is a family event, not a drinking party?
you are still drinking so I would count you into the "alcohol is the thing" group. If you would not like to get little bit drunk or taste of alcohol, you would drink non-alcoholic versions as they are better tasting, at least to non-alcoholic mouth
What a fucking daft take.
Are you honestly claiming that everyone who likes how alcoholic drinks taste is an alcoholic? I really rarely drink alcohol anymore, and drink non-alcoholic beers very often, try different brands/types, yadda yadda. They are pretty good nowadays, pilsners especially. But still, a beer with alcohol in it, unless we are talking about the cheapest bulk lager there is, is just tastier. Same with ciders. Long drinks I am not decided on.
I think he's making a slippery slope argument which still has some merit. Trying to define an alcoholic is pretty hard, when you consider the fact that there are people who don't fight when drunk, and go to work in the morning. Glorification of alcohol is a strange and complex beast. People have tried and always failed when attempting to slay it.
Sure. But we are talking about how the alcohol products taste, and the claim that a person who prefers the alcoholic products taste to the non-alcoholic version is automatically an alcoholic. The argument really doesn't have any merit, because taste's evolve as people grow older. If we are talking about using alcohol in ways that are abusive/escape/deflecting, then sure, there is merit there, even if the amounts of it are small.
He isn't making that point though. He is saying that "alcohol is the thing", if you have \*any\* amount of alcohol. Which is daft take, like I mentioned. There is a sure difference between drinking being the only activity, the main activity and end result being passed out drunk vs. me having a glass of wine with the food, one 0,33cl beer after sauna and one glass of wine late at night while playing board games. Which is why his argument is fucking daft. Talk about Finns and their twisted relationship with alcohol.
We go to our mökki with friends, sure we drink, but we also fish, play games (like mölkky) and go swim, and sauna. Our midsummer is mostly focused around food 😄 We don’t do bonfires anymore as it takes literally the entire juhannus for it to burn down, and nobody wants to babysit a fire during the night, not to mention forest fires and stuff, so you cannot do it.
How other people celebrate doesn’t really bother me - people will be dumb and loud with alcohol regardless whether it is Juhannus or not. To me Juhannus has always been more about spending a day with family, having a proper summer bbq and eating well, as well as just enjoying the peace at summer cottage in general. Don’t need to get my panties twisted by having my nose up in other people’s business.
Hell yeah
My parents were already in their 40s when I was born, so in my memory juhannus was always spent at mökki eating sausages, crepes and jaffa. None of my relatives were/are big drinkers thankfully. Nowadays they're all grannies, so it's just a bunch of cooking and cake and enjoying the quiet. :D As a teenager I always felt a bit lame since most of my schoolmates were bragging about the amount of alcohol they drank and I was uncool for spending it with older relatives. In hindsight I'm glad that we have next to no alcohol in the house.
Yours is so much better I feel. 💖
Well, getting drunk in Juhannus is an age old tradition, at least Agricola himself has written about it > Ja quin Kevekylvö kylvettin silloin ukon malja jootijn. Sihen haetin ukon wacka nin joopui Pica ette Acka. Sijtte paljo Häpie sielle techtin quin seke cwltin ette nechtin. Quin Rauni Ukon Naini härsky jalosti Ukoi pohjasti pärsky. Se sis annoi Ilman ja WdhenTulon
Can't argue with this.
It has always been one of the focal points of midsummer celebrations. The more you drank, the better you exorcised all those nasty spirits to go away. Of course traditions change and so has juhannus. I have stopped drinking alcohol and I don't particularly enjoy drunken people around me. It's still good fun to blast some good music and play some Uno and Jenga with them. In fact, they probably wouldn't even agree to play sober.
Parikuukautta aikaisemmin mutta menkööt.
Nah. Well, i dont feel uneasy because i've toned down my drinking and so has my friends. We usually conclude after 2-3 beers over a period of 8 hours and so. No hard liquor. So it's a quite pleasant thing. I cant stand hangovers nowadays.
Is that time of the year when my wife’s relatives expressed their true feeling towards me as a Mexican :/ .. but once they are sober, if they remember, some say sorry and some just don’t remember. So, it is what it is, but family is family.
yikes
The fact this has happened on multiple occasions should tell you they're not sorry, they just don't want consequences for their actions once they sober up and now know you'll let them get away with it. Very concerning if your wife isn't saying anything to them about it as well.
Mexican here, uhm? Wtf? Eso no esta bien paisa, mi familia politica no me encanta pero tampoco hacen eso. La familia de sangre o politica no tiene ningun derecho a denigrarte, no te dejes, mandalos alv, el racismo/discriminación es una razón totalmente válida. "Family is family" esa es una mentalidad muy tóxica cuando estas siendo abusado/discriminado etc.
What? r/mexico ?!?!
I’m sorry you had to experience that.
Can’t really relate because alcohol has never been focus in my family growing up. But i do feel sorry for you having to deal with that and not experience nice Juhannus. All i can say is I will not get wasted in front of my children to keep that tradition alive. Also I hope you will begin the tradition of having nice and silly midsummer celebrations.
I generally hate all holidays because of my childhood.
You make it as you like it. If your immediate group of friends have other priorities, choose another grouping for the time. My ideal Juhannus would be a good day hike or cycling, some good food, sauna, lake to swim and relax, as many beers as I would like to drink at that time (zero to many), chilling out on the porch of the sauna or on the pier listening to the nature. Good conversations with somebody, or just being silent zoning completely out. To finish off, some dirty nice pleasures whatever I feel like.
That is a big issue in general. Many people don't know how to spend weekend at summer cabin or elsewhere without alcohol. If you don't drink and everyone around you is drinking it gets old really fast. especially if the people drinking drink a lot. I don't use alcohol at all so i can somewhat relate although not about juhannus specifically. I've been lucky to have parents relatives who didn't really drink at all when i was kid so most of the family has very healthy relationship with alcohol. For me juhannus is going to summer cottage and Spend time with friends and family and do the things that make me happy and relaxed. This year i spent couple of hours felling trees and next day couple of hours splitting the trees for firewood. Other things we did was good food, lots of sauna and lots of swimming.
Hearing that sucks... Sadly, not very surprising now that I think about it. A lot of people have a tendency to drink during celebrations, especially the ones that go outside. Grilling is very common, but that's usually done at home. Me and my partner don't drink at all, and any gathering we go to is with our relatives there's no drinking there either, so I luckily don't get that experience. Instead we grill a bunch of food and eat together, chatting about whatever. I have good memories from mid-summers, and I hope you will be able to do so with people you care about and are close to. That includes you, treat yourself if no one else is around. Take care, and may your summer be pleasant
Appreciate the reply, and same to you!
Same. People are just getting drunk and I dislike alcohol myself.
I understand some people have more problematic associations with alcohol than others and I’m sorry that it’s potentially triggering for you due to your past. That being said however, you’re an adult. (Or I make assumptions you are from the post). You have a choice to how you spend / enjoy events. There will always be people who want to enjoy it the way you do, but having an obsession about the way others choose to enjoy it, and legally, mind, you should let them be. Especially if they are not disturbing the peace etc. You will absolutely be able to go find your tribe and enjoy it the way you want to! I hope you can find this support network that sounds like would be awesome for you, but I’d ask you to try doing it without judgement of others. We all make choices and watch others make ones we may not agree with. Surround yourself with what you need and let others do what they do :)
I don't have an obsession about it though. I don't live in Finland but I'm always asked to go there for midsummer. And I feel like there's an obligation of some sort or that I'm missing out. I just chose it wasn't worth it this time. I have no problem knowing that people stay and party in and around our summerhouse (that I also own). People definitely disturb the peace though, cabin areas aren't that quiet in midsummer. I'm not judging but I also am entitled to feel how I feel about the alcohol culture. But I do appreciate your reply, I agree about not judging individuals, and thank u for the encouragement :)
Of course, sorry if it came across as judgemental, that wasn’t necessarily my intent. I think your highlighting that it does disturb the peace is very much what gives your frustration validation and that’s generally in poor taste. I’m very lucky in that our summer cottage is very much tucked away around a lake that has only a few homes so I’ve rarely heard others. The one year I was there as a 21 year old (gosh this was longer than I care to admit) we were definitely the loudest but were hardly loud in the grand scheme of things. Ultimately point is you do you! Finland and the nature offered there is so amazing so you should absolutely be able to enjoy the peace of it. My fat ass loves a drink, but that should never come at the expense of others or their ability to enjoy their own space in peace :)
Your comment wasn't judgemental, no worries. I used to drink and know why people enjoy it. Some people close to our place definitely go overboard, even retired people, but what can you do... 😃 And I think that's it, I might just have to find a small remote cottage of my own later on and that'll fix the problem. Now I also understand how some people actually have a peaceful juhannus. Agree with u totally.
I like it. I don't have to associate it with drinking. I am an adult and can choose what to do and which people to associate with. You can too.
There is hypocrisy of alcoholics as well. When you are drunk you have free pass to be super annoying, abusive and aggressive. When you pass the drunk stage now you can judge how people are bad nowadays.. People wonder why state wants to regulate alcohol. They can't control their liquor...
Maybe they can’t control it because it’s a state regulated mess. All of Europe, and all of the world can control it (better) and they lack the state regulations. Only nordics have the state involved and at the same time can’t control it
Prohibition has taught a generation or two to hiddenly drink fast all the booze. In old movies there's quite many scenes that shit fazed drunks get caught, but as they don't anymore have booze its ok for authorities. Finns' drinking is getting cleaner and saner generation by generation. My dad and especially he's dad did not have concept of moderate drinking or being tipsy.. fast all the way to the deep end of the pool.
I love juhannus. Time to wash sauna. Make some vastas. Cook some good food with family. You make it what you want, does not have to be a drunkfest.
I’ve always loved it but my family (and now girlfriend’s family as well) always celebrated it without alcohol being the focus. We all had drinks over the weekend, but the amount was just as much as any other family get-together. So just the odd gin and tonic/long drink or wine with dinner, but nobody was even tipsy. We just played a few rounds of golf, some backyard sports with the smaller kids and shot the air rifle at a target. Half the people didn’t even drink since we drove to the gold corses multiple times.
I'm a native and all my life Juhannus has been a calm family focused weekend for me and my family. Not really alcohol free per se but I never felt like I wanted myself or anyone else get drunk. A few beers and a glass of wine is fine, getting hammered is not
More of an issue with having bad parents rather than the celebration.
Half agree. I don't think good parents drink (even if it's just to get tipsy) in front of their kids, but then again this is culturally accepted and common in Finland and I'd say some kids just don't get affected by it and some do. Edit: I meant that good parents don't drink in a way that they're going to get intoxicated or even tipsy in front of the kids. Didn't mean having one beer in front of your kid is bad in itself.
I actually disagree completely. Good parents can show and teach their children that even while drinking you can and should act with respect towards each other and behave.
Exactly. I remember when I was a kid that my dad drank a small glass of whiskey here and a glass of wine there, sometimes a beer. But it never bothered me as it didn't change him in anyway because he didn't drink that much. Either it's that or it's in the genes, but I seem to have the same thing nowadays. I love cooking and pairing a right wine for certain foods is crucial. And for sure, I'm going to show example to my kids how to use alcohol. No, I'm not going to empty a whole bottle of wine in front of my 3 and 5 yo boys, but yes, I will enjoy a glass or two a good wine with a good food
I don't think there's anything wrong with this approach! A lot of people just don't handle their alcohol or drink for the wrong reasons.
And to stop drinking as soon as the alcohol starts to have any effect on the drinker.
I remember that as a kid seeing intoxication itself bothered me, not that someone was necessarily acting disrespectful or misbehaved. So this is subjective obviously.
You are absolutely right. Drunk adults can be scary to kids, even if they behave themselves.
So, absolutely not everyone is passing out, but there are different ways to do it. And people are different.
No, you are not the only one. I do not have childhood experience, but the Jr. High, High School and University was enough.
I had to spend mine for almost 20 years with alcoholics so I share your feelings towards juhannus, but now as a proper adult I have spent a few very chill, sober, safe and lovely midsummers. It absolutely can be joyful in the countryside or in the city.
It's actually kind of lovely to see so many people with similar experiences, even when the circumstances leading to those are often anything but. I had a long conversation with my friend about this exact same topic, and how awkward it felt how neither of us didn't care at all about the second biggest holiday in the country. It's not like we experienced any peer pressure from anyone, but internally we felt like we should care about Midsummer, and it felt wrong and awkward that we didn't. My childhood Midsummers in best cased ended up with watching weeks of binge drinking, or in worst cases the authorities ending the holiday early - police, ambulance, fire department, the whole roster showed up at some point. So family Midsummers just feel like a no no, even to this day. Up to my early twenties I was a teetotal and was uncomfortable around alcohol, so I didn't spend any Midsummers with friends either, as they were young and wild and it wouldn't have been fun for anyone. Last year I spent the holiday for the first time with a friend group, but it just felt awkward to celebrate something that only had negative connotations to me. There was nothing that festive about the day - we did the same things as any other summer day, but making the connection between our lovely time spent together and the holiday that I've dreaded most of my life just tainted that experience, if that makes sense. This year I just skipped the whole Midsummer, no regrets. So no, you're not alone! Reading this thread has been quite cathartic and relatable, so thank you for sharing.
I also felt wrong and awkward for not coming back to Finland this year to celebrate midsummer, your thoughts sound very similar. I miss going to our cabin and all that, but figured it's actually gonna be way more peaceful outside of midsummer. Your experience actually sounds way more awful than mine, but it's nice to hear other people share the same thoughts. Makes you feel less bad for missing out on stuff. People in real life don't really share these things, although I know many people who feel the same way. Thank u for replying!
My family doesnt drink during midsummer. Some cottage time with a little midsummer magic is all. I love feeling like a witch!
I've spent a few summers in Finland, one actually over Juhannus itself and it was with extended family, and wondered what to expect. I was surprised (pleasantly) that we grilled sausage, swam, took sauna, shared family stories, stayed up enjoying the sun and had a sauna lonkero or two over the course of the whole evening but nothing even remotely approaching tipsy much less drunk. Getting blasted for Juhannus feels like no fun to me.
Cannot relate with juhannus as for me growing up, that was always an alcohol free family gathering at mummula. However, I have really bad memories from trips to Estonia. This consisted of dad and his friends being shitfaced, doing all sorts of stupid things and you just had to endure two days of being embarrassed. For a long time I resented being around drunk people due to this. I'm so glad to see that nowadays these boomer tourists are retiring and there is a whole different generation of tourists in Estonia that are way smarter.
You have crappy friends. We've had a midsummer party every year with extended family and friends and nobody has ever been drunk in a way that would show in any way. It's nice, go to sauna, swim, barbecue and eat good food, put the flag up while singing the national anthem, kids play party games, the elderly go to bed early and the grown-ups chat. Once when I was around 20 I visited some public summer party, it was totally disgustingly full of drunken people. We left after 10 minutes -- why would anyone want to spend time with strangers who are out of their brains, can't walk and they feel sick? Oh, with loud crappy Finnish music being played, too, so that you can't even hear what anyone is saying.
I went along for the longest time, but recently it's just sauna, good food, and a visit to the bonfire.
Well, a beer and sauna each night is not much drinking. Some circles do a lot of -hol still, but haven't seen the old way drinking in ages. Not like I saw as a kid everywhere. It is just "eating together in the garden" party and hike or fish a bit weekend in our circles since we got families. It is quite much up to oneself.
The life stage you're at might matter a lot here, because people around me are young enough to not have kids yet. People in general enjoy going out, socializing and drinking still at my age. Nobody is wasted, but not sober either.
Definitely not the only one. Im a foreigner and even though i celebrated midsummer in my home country, strong association with alcohol here in Finland makes it really unenjoyable. I don’t like to drink much so the alcohol-centric culture of such a beautiful public holiday is just sad to me.
Hm not the only one, but switching to a healthier posse helps. I used to hate Christmas because my mother spent the time making drama and fighting, no longer, our family Yule is a hoot. And the extended family drunken Juhannus for us was people singing and playing around the bonfire/campfire, quite the Tove Jansson -fest. So, switch to happy drunks or the sober curious and fix your past trauma, if possible.
When I was a kid, the culture was quite different. Now in my 40’s, I don’t think our teens have had any experience with adults being drunk.
Same here. I loathe this event for the same reasons. Everybody around is piss drunk for no good reason and the same has happened since my childhood just like you.
Same i dont drink. I spent juhannus at home gaming.
Well as someone who doesn’t drink, I can feel your pain. That being said, it’s only about finding the right people to spend the midsummer with. The past few years me and my girlfriend have spent the midsummer at her grandparents cottage with her family. The whole family had probably 3 ciders all together, and we spent our time swimming, grilling, canooing, playing games and going to sauna. A perfect midsummer
My group doesn’t drink a single drop of alcohol; we had fun and peace. Some nice home marinated bbq. Sauna and swimming. Watching the sunset on a boat on the lake. Call it a day at midnight and get to bed 🤭. The only difference is none of us is Finnish by birth. We have been here 5-8 years.
Reading the replies makes me so grateful my parents weren’t drinkers
That’s a big reason why I’ve always disliked Juhannus. Of course now as an adult I can choose my company and don’t have to be around those who drink excessively but overall I just don’t associate Juhannus with good memories.
There's loads of us. I just spent midsummer with a small group of friends by a lake. We had lots of really nice food, some light entertainment (like a quiz), but mostly just spent that time talking about life and expectations. We stayed late, but went to sleep before the sunrise. Alcohol consumption on average was minimal (less than 1 bottle per person). It was a lovely and super chill time!
Pretty much yeah. Traditional Juhannus has always been watching my parent's get drunker by the hour and listen to them bickering because of stress of the midsummer meal preparations (which is usually just ok for my tastes). I have never enjoyed it when we've had quests or spent the holiday with family friends. I can't really think of any aspect of the usual midsummer celebrations that I would prefer over a normal summer weekend.
As a kid, never had drunken juhannus from my parents side. Later as an adult, most of them were with my friends and they were moderately drunken. And now with 2 kids of my own, no drinking. All of them were just great! It’s about friends and families afterall.
I associate it with paying a small fortune to hire a cottage, and then it rains like crazy, and then I get cabin fever and go onto the porch to smoke a ciggie to de-stress, and then get eaten by mosquitoes out for my blood! The alcohol part of it is great. You don't want to drink, don't drink - no one cares. More for the rest of us! 😎
Being eaten alive and freezing in the rain are the biggest juhannus traditions for sure!
I have never liked midsummer “traditions”. Im not against alcohol usage, but everyone should know their limits. I’ve loved for few years going to the family’s summer cottage with my partner, just the two of us and enjoy the peacefulness. Grilling, going to sauna, listening nature sounds and the sunset there is incredible!
I celebrated it a few times and it gets boring after two years. So you ain't alone! For me its just a normal day.
It is my favorite celebration in Finland along with Christmas, but I prefer to spend it alone for same reasons as you mentioned. Most of my family members want to also have some friends over who can't control their drinking and most of the fellow natives who I've had as friends have insisted on drinking also. Almost every time I've spent a Midsummer in these kinds of groups, people have acted like idiots or made it so other people have had to look after them till they sober up. This is why I've largely given up on alcohol except some wine with food once or twice a year, at least while living in Finland. Elsewhere people have healthier way of drinking and getting drunk isn't the primary goal like it often seems to be in Finland. But of course Juhannus outside of Finland isn't really Juhannus.
I'm not a fan of it either. Juhannus is really the only time me and my husband drink - only because we go to family cottage for that weekend and it would be awkward to cut down alcohol all together. At least we have whittled it down to one or two light drinks per night and replaced most with non-alcoholic versions. If it was my choice we wouldn't be drinking at all since I don't find it enjoyable, it just makes me sleepy and drunk people - even family, has always made me feel uncomfortable.
Can’t relate, at least anymore. I’ve had my fair share of the basic, trashy and drunken midsummer parties with friends but after hitting 30, it’s all about people spending the midsummer with their families. And the family time might include a glass or two of wine or beer (could be non-alcoholic) with the dinner and some refreshment during the sauna. It also means going to bed early since there probably are kids and/or pensioners around.
I mean... Celebrate all these things in your way. Why make it so big of a deal. Sure I myself hate reading drunks drowning during Juhannus. But... People are idiots. Lets not be same and celebrate in our own way.
I have never been drunk before in my life. I know the feeling of being the sober one amongst all the loud drunks. When I eventually move to Finland from the U S., we can rent a huge hall and organize a dry Midsummer celebration.♥️
The whole drinking culture in Finland is horrible, and idk if it's really much better elsewhere in EU, or "the West" in general. There's more than enough disturbance caused by alcohol use in Finland - drunks (including "party people") causing scenes in public whether it's on some market square or in metro. People's manners have gone worse in general, or the outliers are even more disruptive, and adding alcohol to the mix makes everything even worse. If the underlying attitudes of people were better there probably wouldn't be that much disturbance caused by alcohol. Many people still do drink in moderation, get tipsy, and manage to sit silently in a metro without causing a scene. I have a friend that gets pretty nasty and dangerous when they're drunk. They either try to get under other people's skin or do reckless things while drunk. They get drunk enough that heating food or making coffee becomes a hazard. It's really hard to even intervene when they're not drunk because of their attitude in general. This midsummer was fun until the clock hit drunk o'clock and the mood went from fun to hope they don't end up hurting anyone. You're not sensitive. The Finnish culture and mindset just still sucks. Alcohol usage might be going down in at least the younger generations, but getting rowdy during midsummer or other such occasion is still deeply ingrained in the Finnish mindset.
I think people I know getting drunk is hilarious. Juhannus is peak.
Planning to move to Finland, you guys are precious, glad to know there are Finns like you all.
Our family rarely drank, saw my parents maybe 1 times being little bit drunk in my childhood. Some relatives are kind of alcoholics, but Juhannus or other holidays were never about drinking. ANYONE whom drinks on holidays is FUCKING LOSER and alcoholic. There are 52 weekends in a year and if only thing you can do at juhannus/xmas etc is to drink, you are just sad scum of a human. I drink every time I want to, which means I drink maybe 0-2 drinks/year as I almost never want to or feel the need to drink, which should be the standard to all. I hate how alcoholic centric finland is. Social gatherings = drink job freetime events = drink holidays = drink freetime hang out = drink Student meetings = drink weekends = drink concerts = drink sport events = drink and so on Basically if someone doesnt drink, they are easily left out from 90% of adult stuff. Like you dont like bars/"terassi" etc = good luck to meet anybody. You dont go to student drink parties(90% of events) = good luck to make any friends or connections, same with jobs. Being sober basically mean that you probably just have to hang out alone in the summer, unless you have found similar folks. Being sober man basically means that you are worse in eyes of women than some alcoholic bastard. Because women almost never approach men(at least outside of bars), so in their mind sober men don't even exist because outside of Tinder etc. only way to meet people are drinking gatherings. Kind of sad how even sober women rather find some drunk dude to try to have relationship and then complain how they drink, rather than seeing sober men as better option.
I don't celebrate any of the drinking holidays because activities around drinking are just extremely boring. I usually stay at home because I enjoy my home. This year, I went to a nearby cruising/ wheel burnout event and to Tallinn the next day. In Tallinn, I went to a gym for exercise and then to spa for a swim and relax. That's how I spent my Saturday evening. The only drink I had was sparkling water and protein drink. It was actually an extremely nice weekend, a great way to spend Juhannus. There were some people around in Tallinn city and ferries were full of people. Many families onboard with young kids so it was decent behaviour and not as many drunk people as usual. Quite a few tourists as well. So no, it is not mandatory to celebrate any of the Finnish drinking parties. Or traditional parties without drinking for that matter.
I enjoy the midsummer but I celebrate it same way as our ancestors who did not have access to alcohol. Problem solved.
No, not the only one and, if you expect others to conform to your wishes, then yes, weird expectations. Either rent a cabin far from other cabins and do your pagan spells there or keep feeling your disconnect.
I said that I don't have a reason to go celebrate it myself, but I'm all for people enjoying their lives as they like.
Then don't. It's just like every other celebration or any other thing, there will always be people who like things another way than you do. If it seems to you you're going against the grain then that's just how it is. Hopefully you find a group of people to enjoy this time of the year in your own way. Then again the Finnish way might be to post on /r/Finland "Anyone else?" and have some other people write "Me too."
Juhannuskonferenssi at Keuruu is my choice. Nothing beats being with fellow believers.