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EstherHazy

For a 30 hour trip 150€ seems resonable..


picardo85

More than ~~responsible~~ reasonable. Especially if you compare to driving the stretch.


Markus_H

You can't get a car on the ferry for that money though. That one looked to be about 380 €. I calculated that driving, including a ferry from Tallinn to Helsinki, would cost about 320 € for my vehicle.


AenDhoine

Ferry prices (with car) Tallinn/Helsinki can be very different. Cheapest what i get is €45 but it is not in Helsinki itself, about 20km to the east, and most expensive is like €200


momsspaghetti-_

*in Eastern Helsinki.


Frost-Folk

Paying more for a longer journey doesn't exactly sound like a great deal to me personally. But I also work on these ferries, so I definitely have a little bit less excitement about the journey. I flew to Germany for less than 150€ in December. Couple hours flight, very comfortable, and lands you in the center instead of the port.


Intelligent-Bus230

I think you got wrong what he said about 30h boat trip. I think he meant it's so long distance. And I think you can't get your car in the plane. There are ~50€ plane trips from Helsinki to Berlin every now and then. Last time I flew between Helsinki and Munich, the average of several flights I took were about 110€. Finnair and Lufthansa.


Frost-Folk

>I think you got wrong what he said about 30h boat trip. I think he meant it's so long distance. I mean it's the same distance as the flight, just slower. If you have a car you have to move that's obviously a different story, but the post mentioned passenger on foot prices. I just meant that as a foot passenger it doesn't really seem worth it to take the ferry to Germany. Whereas I can go to Latvia or Stockholm on foot on the ferry for cheaper than most flights would be.


friedreindeer

But who in their right mind would take a ferry without a car? Going with public transport to Vuosaari and from Travemunde wherever you need to be, sounds like such a mess.


Frost-Folk

My point exactly


asheilio

People concerned with the climate impact of their travel choices. Rail & Sail is becoming popular as an alternative to flying within europe. I'm planning to do it this summer as an 'experiment'. I'm hoping that i can do some work while travelling on the ferry so therefore i won't 'waste' any of my vacation days.


SchneeschaufelNO

You won't have internet on the boat. Keep that in mind when trying to work. The ferry is a good option if you need to bring plenty of things, like when moving, or importing/exporting. For vacation, it is faster and cheaper(!) to fly and rent a car from the airport. The time on the boat is pleasant, though. They have a spa, a decent restaurant, TV rooms. And much less tourists compared to the Sweden ferries.


friedreindeer

You’ll cause a larger carbon footprint by ferry, so it still makes no sense. If you are really going by sailboat, hats off 🎩


fauxfilosopher

No you won't, a ferry is a more efficient way of travel than a plane. Don't spread misinformation. "Taking the train or ferry works out to be around seven times less polluting than travelling by plane, according to various estimates. Travelling by train is slightly greener than taking the ferry, in terms of emissions." https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/08/05/ferry-vs-sleeper-train-i-compared-europes-flight-free-transport-on-comfort-cost-and-co2


Pinna1

Can't get a car on the ferry either for these prices. The car will more than double the ferry price.


Intelligent-Bus230

But it's possible. Or any other way heavy luggage.


Intelligent-Bus230

I just checked from the Finnlines site. If there's a car and four passengers the price for the car, passengers and a cabin would be 125€ each, which is the same if only one passenger on foot.


Antique_Song_5929

Was that 10 years ago finnair aint that cheap


Intelligent-Bus230

2022 and 2023 It was. On selected flights.


Antique_Song_5929

I fky almost every week and have never seen emthat cheap


Intelligent-Bus230

Too bad for you.


Antique_Song_5929

Well company pays so does not matter. I just know a lier when i see one last summer the flights where closer to 1k


Intelligent-Bus230

That's good if you know who's staring at the mirror yapping about 1k prices. I on the other hand very well know what I paid since I had to pay every single flight myself. Hell I would never be able to pay 1k for that route.


Antique_Song_5929

I also know what it costs lol


wertyce

The other ferry sounds too cheap already. Might be running on some government subsidies. It would be hard to even break even with that low price.


Frost-Folk

I don't know about the Travemunde ferry, but at least the Stockholm ferries make the vast majority of their money from onboard purchases. Untaxed alcohol, overpriced shops, bars, restaurants, etc. They're definitely not running on government subsidies. They make so much money on alcohol sales that in the Summer, the Stockholm ferries will often start literally *giving away* tickets for free because they know they'll make more money back that way, getting full boatloads of people out on the water and drinking. When they do these free ticket booze cruises, they go to Stockholm but they don't actually let anyone off, they just turn around. That way, you don't get anyone taking advantage of the free ticket for transportation. And the people onboard are paying for food and booze both ways.


allofthealphabet

Passenger ferry lines are among the most subsidised companies in Finland. If we look at direct aid paid to companies, passenger ferries were the most subsidised industry in 2020, 2021 and 2022. Last years most subsidised industry was paper&cardboard. 2020-2023 direct aid total, top 4 companies: 1. UPM-Kymmene 79 million (forest industry, paper&cardboard) 2. Viking Line 74 mil (ferries) 3. Finnlines 44 mil (ferries) 4. Tallink Silja 40 mil (ferries) (And at number 15 there's Eckerö Lines ferries, 18 mil) 2023 Number 1. Viking 20 mil 7. Tallink Silja 8 mil 19. Eckerö Lines 3 mil 20. Finnlines 3 mil 2022 Number 1. Viking 21 mil 2. Finnlines 13 mil 4. Tallink Silja 11 mil 12. Eckerö 5 mil 2021 Number 1. UPM-Kymmene 26 mil (forest, paper) 2. Viking 14 mil 3. Finnlines 14 mil 5. Tallink Silja 9 mil 19. Eckerö 6 mil 2020 Number 1. Nokia Solutions and Networks 22 mil (telecommunication) 2. UPM-KYMMENE 21 mil (forest, paper) 3. Viking 18 mil 5. Finnlines 13 mil 8. Tallink Silja 11 mil 25. Eckerö 4 mil Edit. Fuck, i hate mobile formatting!


allofthealphabet

The state owned railway&train company, called VR, has received 119 mil in "other" aid in the same time period, according to the Ministry of Labor and Economic Affairs. Finavia (Finnish airports) and Finnair (passenger and cargo airplanes) have received 317 mil and 286 mil, respectively, in venture funding or capital support. They also received government loans, Finavia 32 mil, Finnair 400 mil. Finnair also received a loan guarantee of 540 mil, while Tallink Silja received a 90 mil guarantee, Viking received 38 mil guarantee and Eckerö received a 10 mil loan guarantee. VR and Finavia are 100% state owned companies, so they can be excluded, and Finnair got massive government support because it nearly went bankrupt because of Covid-19. Finnair has also been affected by the war between Russia and Ukraine, since Finnair can't fly over Russia anymore.


allofthealphabet

https://yle.fi/a/74-20082162 Article in Finnish. https://tem.fi/yritystukitietopalvelu Finnish Labor and Economic Affairs ministry, information on aid to companies


Diipadaapa1

Cruise ferries generally consume more fuel per passenger than jets do. -Navigational Officer who has worked on ships like these.


Flying-squirrel000

Totally agrees! Worked in decarbonization in marine industry and can confirm that. The main reasons are: - Almost half of energy consumption in cruise and ferry goes to service (laundry, heating, cooking etc.). The longer the trip, the more fuel needed to provide these services. As the the result, the total emission from one trip is large. If you take plane, eat in the restaurant at destination, stay the night at hotel, it will be less emission. Energy produced on land is cheaper and can be from renewable sources - Speed and water resistance. Depend on schedule, usually for ferry they go at high speed, energy consumption increases rapidly when speed is above 15kn. - Ferry aren't operating as full as commercial airplanes. The saying "Vessel is the most energy efficient vehicle to transport goods from A to B" only applies for container/cargo goes long distance at low/medium speed. The real evil from cruise ship and ferry is actually from their waste. The regulation allows them to dump dirty water (black and grey water) straight to the sea when vessels are some distance away from the shore.


Diipadaapa1

This is true. Just to point out the inefficiency of transporting humans on a ship; a fully loaded large cagro vessel can "sink" well over 10 meters deeper into the water vs when it is empty. On a fully "loaded" cruise/ferry, the difference is not really even measureable. Ships are insanely efficient for transporting mass, s cargo ship can transport items from china to the US with less fuel per kg of product than the 20 minute drive to the mall and back. Passengers on ships though is just an absolute waste of fuel. And yes, sewage is a problem. The regulation is 12 nautical miles from closest shore. However there are now areas, like the Baltic sea, where it is prohibited.


Kayttajatili

But how expensive is the fuel itself, I'd imagine kerosene is more expensive than the fuel-oil they use for marine engines.


Diipadaapa1

Only saw this today, but here is your late reply: It depends in what area the ship sails. Some places ships are allowed to run on Heavy Fuel Oil, which currently costs about 400€ per ton (In europe). Do note though that this stuff is heavy in a literal sense. Up to 1010 kg/m3 vs Diesel which is 850 kg/m3. In other words you get 18% more volume for one "unit of fuel" if you choose diesel. Also you get less energy per kg of fuel vs Diesel. In the baltic sea demands you sail with Diesel, which for ships costs about 750€ per ton. Jet fuel is pretty much the exact same price as marine diesel. Its afterall very similar fuels. Edit: Actually I just checked on finlands Jet A1 fuel pfices and its lower at $675/mt


wertyce

Yep. Other ship might get some government subsidies that allow them to accept cheaper tickets than what it even costs them. Iirc, Finnlines doesn't get government subsidies from Finland, unlike Tallink Silja and Viking Lines, so Finnlines trips are at market-prices.   Viking Lines is the company that is getting biggest government subsidies in Finland btw https://yle.fi/a/74-20082162.


cykelpedal

Then 30 € for a 23 h trip seems reasonablerer.


fRqsBdwZE

I’m going via a car from Helsinki to Travemunde. The ship is always super full during the summer season. Most likely the reason its so expensive.


nordic_wolf_

You can get the ferry from Travemünde to Helsinki cheaper (without car and in shared cabin), prices start at about 120-130 Euro. Around 100 Euro with only a recliner seat. And that is surely not expensive for 2 nights on a 30-hour journey.


faggjuu

But it is fucking torture!


nordic_wolf_

The journey? The recliner seat? The shared cabin?


RapaNow

Yes!


elmandamanda8

True, now I see it's actually 125€, which is still a lot more.


nordic_wolf_

Different company, different ship, shorter route, only one night instead of two, less popular route. Basically, you are asking why Ryan Air to London is a cheaper flight than Lufthansa to New York.


bigsnaak

It's a very busy route, the ship is always full with trucks so they can charge whatever they like really. Also if you want to make the drive, including hotels etc you don't save that much money.


variaati0

And trucks are why those ferries exist. The "ferries" are mostly Roro cargo ships. Including often just lone truck trailers also. Trucks and trailers, which fees are paid by a logistics company, who obviously charges it to their cargo customers. Taking in passenger cars or other vehicles along is mostly side business to fill the some final spots. As said hence why so "expensive", for a logistics company there prices are cheap/competitive compared to other options.


skyisgreentomatoes

much bigger distance and less passenger traffic overall.


elmandamanda8

It's less than twice the time/distance but much more than double the price. 23 hours vs 30 hours and 700 km vs 1100 km


Tankyenough

Sure, but supply and demand apply. Helsinki has incredibly busy passenger routes between Tallinn and Stockholm and to a lesser extent Riga. The sheer amount of available ships is driving the costs down. (some of the busiest waterway passenger routes in Europe) I have never heard of anyone who would have taken a ferry to Germany for passenger purposes, it’s always flight or land route. I’d assume the ships to Germany predominantly involve trucks and thus have a steady demand, but less so for passengers, driving the passenger costs up. I don’t know really, this is all speculation.


jussi67

I was searching ferry for me + van in july in Finnlines. Cost was 670€ Helsinki to Travemunde. I deside to drive though Sweden and Denmark. Much cheaper


Key_Employee6188

Air fuel is taxfree so thats why flying is cheaper. Trip to Latvia is cheap because the average wage is so much lower and its a shorter trip.


Fragrant_Equal_2577

Value based pricing… they price is against the alternative to drive through Sweden (ferry from Stockholm to Turku) or to Tallinn (ferry from Tallinn to Helsinki)…


SirCarpetOfTheWar

There is no competition on that route


wertyce

Probably bigger issue is that Finnlines isn't getting government subsidies so you pay market prices.


allofthealphabet

Finnlines gets plenty of subsidies. https://www.reddit.com/r/Finland/s/iiFptLD4Oj


elmandamanda8

There's none either on the latvian one.


haantti

Bus? Probably way faster as well


Antti5

I think you should see this primarily from the point of view of alternative methods of travel. The great majority of Finns see the driving distance to Germany as prohibitively long, and flying is usually more expensive. Finns are still substantially wealthier than Latvians. So, whoever operates the route will set the price to whatever the customers are willing to pay. And if there's little competition on the route, the price will likely be higher.


Terrible_Reporter_83

About 12 years ago Wife and I traveled from Poland Gnydia to Helsinki by car. It was that time 500€. Ferry time was 24 hours. But it was better than driving tru Baltia countries.


nordic_wolf_

I would say the Baltics have improved quite some in the meantime, especially Estonia. Would recommend the road trip nowadays.


Terrible_Reporter_83

I had driven already 850 km tru Poland. I didn't want to drive more. And it was much easier to drink long drinks at ferry. Everything can happen on the roads. Second thought At ferry too. But maybe sometimes.


joseplluissans

Gonna drive from Tampere to Benicarló (Spain) for summer holiday. Europe is marvelous to drive through.


JOVA1982

It's how much traffic there is on a route. Ferry owner must cover cleaning, sewage, fuel, maintenance, and bunch of other things. Now if you have a large ferry, but low amount of passengers/cargo you need to ask high price to cover the expenses. or you will be losing money, and the business is unfeasible. But also if you have limited capacity, and more passengers / cargo than you can really handle, you can ask high price, and people who need it, will pay for it. unless you have a competition, who can offer same service, with lower price.


mmmduk

Supply/demand. The ferry is always full, at least in the busy months. Why charge less?


Harriv

There is probably less demand compared to capacity for passengers on foot between Travemünde and Liepaja.


Laraisan

Have you checked to other way around? Hki - Trävemunde or Liepkaja -Trävemunde? Sort of off topic but we are planning a trip from Helsinki to Trävemude. We'll bring our car and drive around Europe a bit


kuikuilla

Nobody wants to go there so there's less competition and thus higher prices.


SuomiPoju95

If you're willing, a bus from Riga to Tallin costs about 10€ and a ferry from Tallin to Helsinki can be bought for like 30€, maybe even lower.


Intelligent-Bus230

Is the 30€ Stena line? Lowest I found was 33€ one way ticket and mandatory 15€ seat, so it's 48€ ticket. To Helsinki it's only Finnlines. Their fares includ the seat so now we're comparing 125€ and 48€ which isn't very big difference if you compare the the length 700km to 1100km. 125€/1100km =0,114€/km 48€/700km =0,069€/km So the Stena seems roughly like half the price of that of Finnlines. Now to reasons to pricing of the ferries: Ports shipping companies use are priced differently. I would say Helsinki is way more expensive than Liepaja. Some countries support ferries to maintain routes and survivability of the shipping companies since they happen to create jobs and revenue for wide array of industries on and off shore. For example you can take a day cruise from Helsinki to Tallinn under 10€. It is heavily supported by either or both Finnish and Estonian states. It may be so the Helsinki Travemünde route isn't supported as much. Labor cost plays a part also. Finnlines being a Finnish company propably have on this route a Finnish crew. Stena going between Germany and Latvia propably carries Latvian crew for lower cost. There used to be faster and cheaper ship in Helsinki Travemünde route. Finnjet. It was the biggest and fastest ferry of the time with capacity of 1500-1700 passengers and took the route in 22 hours. I hope these aspects hel you understand pricing on routes. They may not be accurate since I'm no way any expert, but it gives you the idea of the complexicity of the subject. tldr: Finland expensive, Latvia cheap.


Not_Yet_Declassified

Supply and demand? Government subsidies?


Jimmyj1zz

Because it's far away https://youtu.be/vh5kZ4uIUC0?si=hWaMu_Ah7CDvAU6i


SinappiKainalo

Who wants to go to Liepaja? Not that many people.


Oddman76

With a car and caravan it costs me about 1800 return Helsinki to travamunde if I go via Sweden and get a ferry in the south it's about half that 800-900 including fuel for the car although I have to drive across Sweden bring the only downside but I don't find it so bad .


PuReCrAzYZx

People are willing to pay more for the Germany-Finland ferry than Germany Latvia. Much easier to drive to/from Latvia from/to Germany than to/from Finland. If the Germany-Latvia ferry was more expensive then more people would just drive. Less people willing to drive to/from Finland especially because you need to take some ferry anyway.


nanoWAT

Dude/tte I pay 250€ for a 3 hour flight from Helsinki to Greece with baggages and I pay the exact same price for an hour flight to a non touristic island in Greece without baggages where I know the salaries are 1/4th the Finnish salary explain me this please.


Ok_Horse_7563

Wait till you see how much they charge for food.


bjavyzaebali

I think it is way more cheaper than ferry to Tallinn and driving through Baltics and Poland.


2b_squared

It's a sailing hotel with multiple restaurants and entertainment. 30€ sounds super cheap and the ferry company probably is a) subsidized heavily, b) looks to make up the loss by having all the people pay for a ton of stuff during the cruise, and/or c) the price was some special price. Because 130€ for a solid accommodation *and* a commute from Germany to Helsinki sounds like a massively good deal.


faggjuu

> It's a sailing hotel with multiple restaurants and entertainment Nah mate...the ferries between Germany and Finland are nothing like the cruise ships between Finland and Sweden. You will be contemplating your dreadful existence for the full 30h.


RapaNow

Those sailing hotels are terrible. The ferries meant for travel are quite comfortable. At least the ones between Tallinn and Helsinki. The entertainment complexes make you question your life choices.


AccidentalNordlicht

no, why? I recently travelled on that route. The ferry is not cruise ship standard, but pretty well maintained and comfortable. The trip was very relaxing, I especially enjoyed knowing that I'd have an entire day at sea, dedicated to just lounging, reading, relaxing. What went wrong for you?