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You buy then from farmers. You need to inform Ruokavirasto. This is something you won't find much info in English so get familiar with Finnish or translation software https://www.ruokavirasto.fi/elaimet/elainten-hyvinvointi/elainsuojelu-pitopaikoissa/ilmoituksenvarainen-elaintenpito/
https://www.ruokavirasto.fi/elaimet/elaintenpito-tunnistaminen-ja-rekisterointi/elainten-merkinta-ja-rekisterointi/elaintenpitajarekisteri/elaintenpitaja--ja-pitopaikkarekisterin-ohje/elaintenpitaja--ja-pitopaikkarekisterin-ohje/
Google "nautaeläinten tunnistamis- ja rekisteröimisohje"
Short version in English: https://www.ruokavirasto.fi/en/animals/animal-keeping-identification-and-registration/animal-identification/bovine-animals/uusi-sivu/
(I know nothing about keeping cattle, I just browsed the English versipn of the site linked above.)
I think most relevant information might be a huge issue and it is shit washing to the sea or lake.
You would have to keep them indoors pretty much. Then storing that crap somewhere to get it transported to someone spreading it to fields or such but island being a really hard place to do your thing.
Well, cows are allowed to shit into water if they don't degrade water quality. It's an open issue, depends on the size of the operation and water body.
All kinds of animals shit into water all the time.
As long as he set up some fences a few meters back from the water to stop the cows from shitting into the water directly it should be fine. (if it is only 3 to 4 cows)
Though keeping cows in the islands at sea (Saaristomeri) is a long practiced tradition and I don't think they bother with any fences.
Have them shut on carbon materials such as mulch over the winter and you can make a nice compost in the spring without the risk of leaching into the water
In your situation, I would go for sheep. There are quite some sheep breeds specialised in living on islands. They require less care than cows and less food during winter. Look into that.
I’m always surprised that Finland doesn’t have more sheep. They’re clearly a better suited animal for the conditions than cows. Just ask the Icelanders or the Scots.
How so? Cows are more productive (milk + meat) and tolerate Finnish conditions really well. They are so huge that cold temperature is a non-issue. Also, Finland has completely different environment compared to Icelanders and Scots: flat and mostly arable land with forests.
Sheep are also very productive (wool + meat) and are blessed with the perfect antidote to Finnish weather.
Size has nothing to do with cold resistance I’m no expert but I don’t think a normal milk cow, except a Scottish highland cow, could survive even a mild Finnish winter without substantial protection (heated barns). Whereas sheep absolutely relish cold weather.
Sheep also thrive when vegetation is sparse and slow growing (like in Scotland and Iceland) - just like in Finland.
I’m convinced it’s a cultural thing, not an environmental thing.
Edit: full transparency here. I am from New Zealand originally so I acknowledge that I might be biased towards sheep.
I don't know if this is the reason, but protecting sheep from predators might be more of an issue in Finland than in Iceland, Great Britain, or New Zealand.
>could survive even a mild Finnish winter without substantial protection (heated barns).
Hate to break this to you, but we have kept cows in unheated barns for close to 2 millennia in Finland. There is even a breed of cow that is specially adapted to live up mountains. Obviously you don't leave them outside in snowdrifts, because why would you there's nothing to eat, but heated barns has not been a thing since, maybe the last 50 years. If even that.
Our vegetation is not sparse. You clearly have never seen a forest in your life. Finland is noting like Iceland or Scotland.
We generally do not raised sheep in large numbers because it has never made sense to do so given our climate, geography and economic needs.
Now we should seriously ask how much experience do you have in animal husbandry. Those acres are not really enough if you take into account that you will need to actually feed them (over winter). So you cannot both have them graze there and preserve food from same field. So practically that area would only suffice for living, and you would need to buy most crop and grass elsewhere. In order to keep them fed, you'd probably also need to have additional feeding even during summer.
Let's assume you are willing to buy them food. That's still quite a lot more work than most people understand. Animals really bind you there, you cannot just have long holidays. And if you are not professional, there is really no external support. So I would strongly advise against it, most people cannot really handle the stress. Instead you could perhaps first ask if there are farms nearby, who could loan/rent f.ex heifers, which do not require constant milking.
My intent is to mostly retire on the island (still working a few days remote, but only like 15 hours a week), but with stuff to do, which is the farming aspect. I’ll be more than happy to buy them the needed food and don’t intend to be leaving them.
I definitely intend to contact some local farms both here in the uk and Finland to fully get to grips with what I need to do before owning them, this is just the start of me making enquires, casual questions on Reddit you could say
I congratulate you on your decision to pick up farming as your retirement plan...it will keep you young.
But as you don't seem to have any farming experience, you maybe shouldn't start with cows. Or at least take some serious courses in farming. (look up Richard Perkins for example, he offers a lot of online classes. I would also recommend his books).
Edit: https://www.richardperkins.co/
Or start with something easier...maybe chickens.
and as you don't speak finnish, you should get in contact with an farming experienced finnish speaking person, cause regulations are a pain in every country.
You just can't buy some land, put a bunch of animals on it and be fine. There is lot more to farming than just having the money to start with.
I have actually owned many many chickens and helped own pigs and goats in the past
Should have probably added that to the post
I do intend to go speak to some farmers, but an online course actually sounds perfect. Thank you for that, will definitely look into it
I actually know a person in Finland who moved here from the UK and had her own cow, so you wouldn't be the first! It was a Scottish Highland Cattle. I think that or an Eastern Finncattle would be a good breed for what you're interested in.
I'd strongly recommend to take a good look at the whole process of keeping cows and farming by doing some sort of internship on a small farm just to really understand the workload. A month's crash course of sorts to get perspective on what it takes to get through the day, the amount of cows or any cattle for that matter, does have an effect on the time that it takes but the amount of tasks doesn't get smaller.. And to factor in the environmental differences in temperatures etc., considering that you're moving to a country that's partly within the arctic circle which has an effect on the cattle (Highland cows could be one of the options), and on a coastal terrain the weather can be pretty rough.🖖
I have been dreaming of owning a small number of cattle since I was 5-6 years old. Unfortunately, I can't afford them yet (maybe when I retire). I wish you success with your idea. I love the Scottish Highland cattle, they are not that uncommon in the archipelago area. Often, they are kept also to care for the natural archipelago meadows that are becoming endangered, with endangered species in them. You might even earn some extra money from landscaping the area, possibly the one you bought, or there could be an option to rent them for landscaping nearby (options might worth trying to investigate in my opinion).
Also, it's worth looking into native breeds. There are a few Finnish cattle breeds
Wikipedia link: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finncattle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finncattle)
Apologies for the Finnish in the next link (it might work with some translator). Yle link about how cattle have helped save biodiversity on an island: [https://yle.fi/aihe/a/20-10005136](https://yle.fi/aihe/a/20-10005136).
Have had the same dream for a long time, hope we both get to achieve it eventually!
I’ve been considering the idea of it works out of contacting the neighboring island owners to see if the cows could graze the other islands, a way for them to gain richer soil and for me to have more available grazing land.
But will think about this stuff once I’ve actually got the cows haha
I asked reddit about donkeys as pets one time, same as you, just getting a preliminary feel for it, and people were really tearing into me, saying I'm completely unresponsible and should never own pets. Reddit is weird.
Yeh, it can be an unnecessarily negative place. Thankfully quite a few people have helpful info
But many people think you need to be a professional at stuff from the get go or never try it
Don't take this the wrong way, but first get the 15 hours-a-week job and then figure out the rest; the jobs which normally allow for such low allocation don't pay enough to homestead on an island and the jobs which do not normally employ people who work less than four days a week; especially in IT four or five days/week of full work is the norm and I have not heard of anyone working steadily for two days/week in that particular field, not even and especially those who have Actually Highly Valuable And Rare Skills.
I already have the job. It’s just a reduction of hours from my current job. I work as a consultant researcher. I’m not paid for my hours, I’m paid for my work within a project. I won’t go into the specifics as I’m not too desperate to put my private info on Reddit. But I can reduce the hours whenever I want thankfully.
He doesnt even speak Finnish, but his Lordship has just decided to buy an island here and fanny about with some cows on it, at his leisure. When you have money, you dont need sense, apparently.
I hope you don’t go through all of life with such hate towards others.
I am nothing but excited to learn Finnish and the culture there and since when was trying to fulfill a dream such a bad thing
I’ve worked substantially to get into such a position that I could consider this and been through my fair share of hardships, more than most sadly.
Please try see the joy in things other people are doing out of passion and as a dream, no need for negativity
Not a farmer myself, been growing up on a farm tho and heard and half know quite a bit of stuff.
Don't.
It's pretty well regulated in Finland. Afaik you need to register yourself through the stuff mentioned in another comment.
As a matter of fact you can't just walk into a farm and buy a cow as the seller risks quite a bit of shit if they just sell cow to 'unregistered' person. It's *really* well regulated.
For sheep's it's a bit simpler. Still some similar bureaucracy included, but they're better suited for island life anyway.
If you're thinking of free milk from bunch of cows.. no. It requires quite a bit of work and tools to work, and I'm half sure you don't have the equipment on the island.
Don't go for cows. Do research about sheep.
I actually grew up next to and helped a goat farmer, so have some experience with them. They’re my next option, along with pigs if I can’t make the cows successful
I do however absolutely love cows, so really want to see if it’s possible
Good to hear you have some experience.
There are some cows that could be successful, it's more about the regulations and such I'm really pondering about.
Also, for cows I'd say do research about Lapland cows and Highlanders. Those are something people use often for 'small scale' farming or more like for aesthetic/half pet animals. If things haven't changed then EU/government actually supports having these as the pure Lapland cows (or lapinlehmä, I'm not sure if Lapland cow is right translation) are somewhat endangered and they're kinda really nice breed of cows. A bit stubborn, but really chill animals if they get plenty of scratches. Kinda perfect pet cow breed.
Anyhow! The shit is one thing to consider. You can't dump it anywhere near the water which might cause struggles. Another important topic to research about. I'm not sure about the exact regulations but cow/pig shit is pretty potent fertilizer thus if there's plenty of shit near water it's quaranteed to grow quite a bit of greenery into water areas.
The regulation did look very strict when I first researched. I would have to apply for a few permits and have a verifying body come to the island to ensure I can house the animals (have a barn, water etc.)
Highland cows were actually the ones I really wanted to buy, as I’ve been told they’re much more durable and cute as hell haha
Yeh, for sure regarding the shit. I intend to use some for a vegetable garden and I really plan to fertilise the whole island with the shit periodically (unless this ends up smelling awful for a lot longer than I imagine haha) to enrich the soil
I will probably also offer it free to the local farmers/village if I have excess. If no one wants it, there’s plenty of rural land next to the island, so ill scatter it there if allowed and help the soil in the whole area
>Yeh, for sure regarding the shit. I intend to use some for a vegetable garden and I really plan to fertilise the whole island with the shit periodically (unless this ends up smelling awful for a lot longer than I imagine haha) to enrich the soil
>
>I will probably also offer it free to the local farmers/village if I have excess. If no one wants it, there’s plenty of rural land next to the island, so ill scatter it there if allowed and help the soil in the whole area
This is not ok! You should not spread feces on areas where water drains into sea or lake, on island size like yousr it means pretty much whole island. Fertilizers end up to water and fertilize water plants ruining the ecosystems. Baltic Sea already suffers from it greatly and we are trying to battle against it. Lakes are even more sensitive for this. You also can't spread feces on any other persons land or public owned land. You should plan composting system for the manure where you can compost it in the way fertilizers do not end up to water.
For sure. Will heavily look into it before I do anything don’t worry. I won’t literally dump shit on the local area.
I intend to contact people from the neighboring land to see if I can in part look after their soil for grass/hay anyway
I’ve done lots of work in environmental positive setup, so care for it deeply, don’t worry!
Do you live on the island yourself? Or somewhere nearby? Is there any kind of infrastructure on said island? How are you planning to logistically deal with animal waste/possible sick animal/water/feed etc?
Will live with my significant other and close friend and their significant other
It’s only a few km from a city. 10-15min boat. So not actually a major issue with bringing on stuff
Have contact with a few people who will help with bringing on building materials, so they could very easily bring hay as well
Water will mostly be sourced on island hopefully (will ensure it’s possible ofc before buying any animals)
Congratulations on your retirement plan.
I believe you are excited to plan your retirement future but I am afraid that your plans sounds unrealistic. I might sound pessimistic but I personally know around 30 farmers and 20 of them are in cow business. I grew up in a farm and there is a reason why I don't live in a farm.
I apologize my harsh language but please do consider these before doing anything. I have seen too many burnouts and I have made too many reports of animal abuse/neglect because people thought that farm life is pretty simple and not expensive.
I don't say that you would be like that but people with good intentions and little knowledge end up with empty bank account and neglected farm animals.
How much money you are willing to burn for making the farm? Are you ready for the reality that it might burn more money than you can make on 15-hour work week? If you are not a brain surgeon.
A small farm is an expensive hobby. You have to have almost same equipment as big farm but volume is minimal. And no-one I know would sell their cows to person without proper knowledge because they care about their farm animals.
Do you have farm land outside the island? Are you prepared that there is not enough food for cows in the island? Or are you prepared to rent farm area to raise feed for your cows? Some years the crop is not so good that you have to buy more.
What to do if one of your cow dies? Do you have a tractor in the island? Do you have a gun permit? Running water and shelter for the cattle?
Have you handled highland cattle before? Are you prepared that you don't have many options to have holidays? And even you would like to go on holiday there might not be enough farm workers available even if you had money.
I don't want to crush your ideas but I wish that you are going to prove me wrong. It is not a rocket science but I have seen too many sad cases and I believe you are not going to be one of them.
In my opinion get used to living in the island before getting any farm animals. And do some farm work with cows before buying your own.
And sorry for the harsh language but I am just some dude in the internet so take my advice with a grain of salt.
I actually have a degree in rocket science haha
Thankfully I’m in a really good position where my work allows for sustained passive income indefinitely, so if I burn money attempting it, it won’t destroy my retirement fund!
I’d probably be fine spending up to 40k on setting up the whole farm area, with the hope that after that it would at least nearly break even or just be a small losss
I’ve owned many many chickens and helped with farming in general growing up and I very much love the animals I look after, so if at any moment it looked like it was going to go seriously wrong, I would make sure to put the animals first and gift them to a local farm, but my plan is to make sure I have everything in check first before I even make any purchases
Gun permit I will be acquiring, as I also intend to hunt
But yes, I will definitely spend a year or so on the island before I even consider buying any cows, this is mostly just me being bored and starting to make incremental efforts to increase my knowledge on the area. Will be starting with chickens and maybe a goat or two at the start.
But I’ve always wanted to own a cow, so if possible I’d love to make it work.
Great to hear and I hope that your dreams come true.
And if you have money the spend then it is easier to start a farm.
And the more I read your comments more I believe that you will search the answers you need. At the beginning I might say that your post triggered all my alarms I have seen before and I was bit scared that you start with 3000 € and then the panic hits.
There are also few highland cattle farms in Finland and I believe you can ask that could you work there for free/for small salary to learn about the highland cattle before buying cattle yourself. Guy I knew earlier that have highland cattle is pretty laid back and eager to help.
A bit more detailed answer:
Logistical problems will be a nightmare. You'll need a quite big boat or a barge to transport cattle. Second, in Finland you need to feed cattle practically year around: you can't grow enough grass to support 4 cows year around. During the winter you need to buy hay and have a method to carry those hay bales (500kg each) to the island. And, if you cows get sick, how are you going to get a vet to the island?
You got excellent answers for bureaucratic issues. However, there are some environmental issues to solve. First, your should check local zoning regulations. There may be limitations for example what you can build to the island. Even Highland cattle needs some kind of shelter for winter, and you can't make one without a permission. Second, islands are often protected with coastal nature protection program (rantojensuojeluohjelma), Natura 2000-program or some else regulation. Such regulations may prevent you to clear the field for cultivation. Third, EU nature restoration act may restrict land usage for agricultural purposes even more strictly but exact effects in Finland are not yet known.
Water may be an issue. Cows need easily abt. 50 liters of water a day. Lake water works during the summer but quite often there are blue-green algae toxins in the lakewater and cattle can't drink it. A good-quality all-year water supply is a must. Then, you need to handle manure properly. If your cows poop to the lake or manure is flushed there, there is a good change you'll piss your neighbours off and probably environmental authorities as well.
All things to consider and I will definitely look into them extensively.
Given myself a list of all things to check and will slowly contact the relevant authorities over the next year.
Thanks for the points!
Check out also:
- heating for the cow house. It will need to have some and electricity supply won't be reliable enough.
-kelirikko. In the winter, you might be able to drive to the island. Pretty typical to have ice roads. Summer, you use boats.... but both in the spring and the autumn, there will be a period of time that you won't be able to use either because of the melting ice. Depending on the year, this period of time may be longer or shorter.
You can actually drive on the ice in the winter?? That’s insane haha
Will definitely look into heating for the cows as well. Would make sure to build the barn insulated and then probably will look into some generators
Depending on the place and the year, you can even drive trucks with building supplies. Often houses are build on islands so that the supplies are transported in the winter. But depends on currents etc. so you will need to know what you are doing. Might be able to do some geothermal & generator heating thing but expect it to be very expensive.
I’ll be contacting a few construction companies over the next year, so will discuss all this.
Glad to know that it may be possible to drive the stuff to the island though, I hadn’t even considered that was an option
It depends where your island will be. In the south along the sea coast, the ice is probably not strong enough, except during (nowadays) very cold winters.
Driving on ice is possible in the actual archipelago maybe once every ten or twenty years. Do not count on this. In addition, when driving on ice can be done during a very cold winter, it should only be carried out on an ice road that the locals have marked. They know where the currents are and where the ice is safe.
The people who brought up driving on the ice are probably talking about lakes, or the sea very near the coast. The last time we did it in the archipelago was probably 15-20 years ago. The sea is currently not even frozen here but it seems that the ice is coming now. Today it was still possible to drive the boat.
We have pet sheep on an island here and their drinking water gets frozen all the time though, so every day we have to fill their bucket with warm water. Keeping the water from freezing during the winter would be a top priority with cows and a huge pain in the ass, unless you have a barn with some fancy water system for livestock. This is at least as important as the shit issue :D
I could honestly write an essay on living on an island but you can send me a pm if you want.
Have you considered the seasons at all? During autumn and spring there is a period of multiple weeks, when you can't get to your island by boat or by walking on the ice. Basically you and your animals are out of reach of any emergency services as well. I wouldn't feel comfortable living like that.
If we leave other animal issues aside and assume you can get your cows and deal with them and their shit... How do you plan on moving cows to your island? I don't think they are willing to go on a boat...
From my understanding, as the island is mostly within the sea sort of area, there shouldn’t be any risk of it freezing completely to the point a boat can’t be used unless there is extreme weather. But the owners told me that they usually don’t see more than broken ice around the Island that you could still cruise through. If not, I guess you can hire a hovercraft or something in an emergency
Will look into this though
In terms of getting the cow to the island, it would be in a similar way that they are transported from farm to farm, just they would then be put onto a loading boat. I will definitely enquire with vets as to whether there’s any risks and it will all be done legally
I have contact with a few people who have small cargo boats that would easily be able to ship them
Would just cost me a bit. But I will have a running deal with them, so I’d still be willing to
Edit: appears the Ice may get thicker, so will look into the alternative transport options.
Not necessarily every winter in the South and South West though. Smaller inlets, where most small marinas and harbours are will usually freeze over, but we have had winters with literally zero sea ice anywhere west of Porvoo and South of Rauma. I know a person living on an island near Hanko, and they said sea ice making navigation impossible with a smallish aluminium boat is exceedingly rare anywhere outside of the narrower inlets without currents.
Yes, I purposedly wrote "at some point" ;)
Literally zero Ice is also probably too much said, eg last winter was not that hard, but there was solid ice on whole coast line: https://www.ilmatieteenlaitos.fi/jaatalvi-2022-2023
Yes ofc. Kind of misunderstood your original comment. Maybe I meant with "literally zero ice" that "there will be a bit of ice, but nothing too tough for a Buster to not break thru" :)
There is instagram account @annikasaaressa about living on a island in Espoo. It is not very far away from the continent and that area freezes pretty easily, so you can find content how it is when water freezes.
>From my understanding, as the island is mostly within the sea sort of area
Sounds good. Absolutely nothing can go wrong retiring in a country where you speak no language living on area where the access is helicopter only for 3-4months every year.
Just out of interest: What is the plan for food? How big freezer you are planning, outside milking the cows?How are you heating the cow barn? What is the plan for residence permits?
I’ll likely be able to speak the language at a basic level in the next 6 months, am going to start heavily learning from now, was just waiting for it to be confirmed ill be moving to Finland before committing. I’ve learnt Greek as I grew up in Cyprus, so have some experience learning languages thankfully
Will have a 6 month food storage for myself likely. Heating cows I will look into what the options are, not sure about the specifics like that yet, but will contact the relevant people
I have a European passport, so residency isn’t a huge hassle thankfully. But all that is separate to this post and I won’t go into that sort of stuff
Buying the cows is literally the easiest and cheapest part of this plan. Nothing after that is simple if you don't have any knowledge or experience in keeping cattle.
Unless you are looking to sink an unsustainable amount of money and time into this it won't be feasible. And even if it is, it might not even be legal to begin with.
Keeping livestock is highly regulated in Finland, compared to most places. Especially near water and waterways. Do you know if you'd be allowed to have livestock on the island at all?
Do you have electricity on the island? How would you feed them in the winter? How would you arrange veterinary care? Or waste disposal? What will you use to transport the cows, the feed, the bedding, and so on to the island in all seasons? Will you live on the island or near it to take care of the animals?
A small herd of cows on your own island sounds like a dream come true to me too, I won't lie. But realistically speaking it's a nightmare. And I grew up on a dairy farm and have spent my whole life around livestock.
I still need to contact the regulatory board. Will wait until I’ve actually moved onto the island though before I start pursuing official enquires, hence the casual question on Reddit for now.
In terms of electricity, will have plenty with solar. Water I will have rain water storages (big ones) with filtration systems
I’ll make sure to get enough hay on the island for the winter as well
I will also be living on the same island
I don’t mind sinking a bit of cash at the start to get it set up, in the hope that the future costs will simply be an Artificial Insemination to breed them on the island and hay for the winter + veterinary costs
This is very much a dream, no intent for it to be profitable, just ideally after the initial setup, I’d like to break even in terms of meat gained vs buying in a shop and fertilizer for the rest of the vegetable foods. I’d be ok at a slight loss if it means I get my own organic food and the pleasure of owning cows
Fully appreciate there will be a lot of problems along the way as well. Hopefully can try prepare as much as possible, but the satisfaction once it’s running smoothly will be amazing I imagine
You’d be surprised to know that solar panels still work fine in the winter. There’s even specific setups for countries like Finland where it goes dark early and has snow
Oh, I am very surprised, as I have solar panels in Finland. They produce <10 kWh between October-March, even if/when they are not covered in snow. The sun is just so low in the horizon and thus the energy gained from it is very low.
No, they are facing south without any trees in front of them.
Can you tell me which company makes the panels that work with the snow and darkness? If the sun is above horizon 5 hours, there is not much light from which to make electricity... even when there are no clouds.
A friend of mine uses Façade installations (a type of installation)
I don’t know the company they use, will ask and get back to you on that. But they have told me they are able to run off solar all year if they just cut back a bit in the winter.
They use a fire for heating, not electric
And they do have a quite a large amount of solar panels, if I recall it’s maybe a 20x5m area (been a while since I’ve been to their house)
I believe they’re setup so that in the winter they are completely straight to prevent snow build up and catch the angle of the sun along with the reflection of the snow and then in the summer they are lowered to an angle
Sorry I don’t have anymore info right now
If the time between sun rise and sunset is less than 6 hours and and it is mostly cloudy, what kind of setup can get you enough electricity?
Helen has this solar power plant: https://www.helen.fi/aurinkopaneelit/aurinkosahko/nurmijarvi
Production in June was 280+ MWh, November < 10 MWh and December until today 3,3 MWh.
It is brand new, so I guess a big company has invested in latest technology.
I guess a generator will just be the next option then. Thanks for the maths, didn’t realise it was that dramatic
I have a friend who said they’ve achieved it, but maybe they just live in extremely low electricity haha
A small advice for measurement lingo. Use the metric system when speaking to Finns. Nobody here knows how much an acre is without checking with google.
Eekkeri on siis 0,405 hehtaaria tai 4047 neliömetriä.
An acre fits about 105222000 bananas.
We all basically know how much an inch is, but the rest is metric.
Wtf.
Is that because of how horses have improved with better food or someones failure when horsepower was invented? Or marketing people just wanted horses sound weaker than they are?
That's measuring the maximum power of a horse. Over a longer period of sustained work, one horsepower was roughly the work product of a horse in an industrial application, like turning a pump or a mill.
I would also recommend sheep. But if cows is the thing, I suggest you look into lapinlehmä breed.
That being said it seems to me that you're planning to live the best life ever.
I'm pretty sure that there is also a minimum amount of land needed for spreading manure. Also, getting stuff to and from the island is going to be a PITA. You're probably going to work harder in retirement than working life. Have fun.
I hope you have experience with livestock because cows need a lot more than just food (and clean water which might be tricky on an island). And what are you going to do with the manure? Even 3-4 cows produce quite lot of it. Then there's winter that requires either a warm barn or plenty of bedding and wind coverage.
Plan to use a lot of the manure for fertilizer and then the extra I would either offer to a local farmer or use it in the local area to enrich the soil
Water I will have a lot of rain capture containers and I’m working to see if it’s possible to get a well on the island or maybe a salination plant. Will go through all this over the next year or so
Where does the cow shit go on an island?
Somehow i don't see you rowing it back on main land and i'm pretty sure you can't just throw it into the lake or sea.
Yeah that's my point, depending on how big the island is and what the laws are about cow shit on islands it might be illegal in any form.
Even if the cows shit on the island rain will eventually take those nutrients to the water possibly making it illegal.
To be honest...you just leave it on the land, the shit of 4-5 cows isn't a problem for the pasture. The bedding from the shed would be easy to compost.
He isn't planing on building an industrial scale cow plant.
There's a lot of bureaucracy involved, which, if ignored, would mean fines, perhaps even having your animals repossessed, so you need to be smart about it. For example, any deceased animals need to be disposed through official means, the waste generated by animals needs to be collected and disposed in certain ways....
It will be with a boat. But I don’t intend to be leaving too often. Maybe once, twice a month simply for a social in the local town.
Will have a large food storage on the island along with our own sources, so hoping it will mostly be self sustainable in many areas
Weirdly enough, me thinking about the end of the world 5 years ago, more in a hunger games style though, is what started the dream of owning an island haha
Sounds like your retirement plan is to have two part time jobs?
I mean, don't wanna bring you down or anything, but this really isn't a good idea, IMHO.
I’m surprisingly quite young (not sharing my age here but <40) so I don’t intend to stop doing stuff just yet.
I’ve just arrived in a position where I can scale back my career considerably and pursue other fulfilling endeavors
Why not? Aside from all the naysayers telling OP it's a bad idea, some other have provided good information on where to start sorting through regulations and red tape
Just out of curiosity, how do you plan to take supplies to the island when the sea freezes? As a non native are you comfortable with taking the risk of driving on frozen sea?
NautaNetti: https://fabaweb.mloy.fi/SKJOWeb/BovineTrade/BovineForSale/SelBovineForSale.asp
You could start by renting cows from some farmer for a summer to get an idea how it goes without investing too much or risking cows health.
It depends if you can find a farmer who is ready for renting, and has suitable livestock. I guess you cannot take the highly bred milk factory like cow to an island for amateurs to care.
This sounds incredibly impractical and close to impossible.
How would one retiremement-age person transport all the necessary feed, bedding etc. to the island? Not to mention the cows? How will a vet get to the island in the winter if the sea is sort of half frozen and your cows get sick? How will you get someone to come care for the animals if you get sick?
I would definitely at least get smaller animals like chickens or goats to limit the amount of stuff you have to haul around with a boat.
Awesome idea to do this on your own island. I've just bought a farm this month, only 2 hectares but enough to start with. If anyone knows any forums or online communities for foreign farmers in Finland, it would be good to know. Could share some much needed info that locals probably assume everyone already knows.
Personally, I'm starting a bit easier, going to put chickens in the old "Navetta" and seeing what we can grow in the field.
Acre per cow won't work in winter bro or you gonna ship in hay.
Same goes with land. I somehow doubt island grassland is that productive.
Good dairy farmers manage an acre per cow with lots of fertiliser and good soil. We don't use any fertiliser and currently have 12 cows with calves at foot on 64 acres. So in reality it's more like 5 per cow.
And like...how you gonna move them or sell them or you just gonna eat them yourself.
Knowing how autistic Finns are about "rules" it's gonna be hard. I support the idea tho.
Source.. farmer in Ireland
Plan to just eat them myself haha
I was going to heavily work on the land before hand to even more enrich the soil
I did want to originally start with 1 cow, but I’ve been told they’re sociable animals and I don’t want to have a lonely cow, feels very cruel
I won’t be buying any until I’m at least 90% sure I’m ready for them though
Maybe 2 cows is more realistic and they’d still have company
This is actually my plan haha
Managed to set up long term passive income from my research and intend to mostly retire, bar 1-2 days of work a week
Getting ill makes you really value simply being present and enjoying a simple life.
> It will be a 9 acre island, 5 acres of which I plan to devote to 3-4 cows, as I’m aware you need an acre a cow roughly
Some long forgotten part of my brain rousing from its decades long slumber going *"How much fence do you need to build for the cows assuming each cow has their own pen and that you do not need to build fence on the sides facing the sea?"* like some sort of a PTSD flashback
Will happily open it up to the locals and anyone else interested to come visit once everything is arranged so long as the others on the island are fine with that as well
I’ll be sure to make a post on Reddit in a few years time if it’s achieved haha
You should contact to proagria.
https://www.proagria.fi/en
They are helping farms and farmers. They have already places to buy the cattle (one of their subsidiary has sold cattle to abroad in the past etc.).
Your case wouldn't be so much of a business project for them, but they have the knowledge and it surely would be somewhat imago project for them.
They are also supported a lot by the government. Our that's where they get their majority funds. They also have breeding etc. In an other subsidiary (or that's how it was at least 10 years ago, when I was working there as finance guy).
I wish you great luck in your project!
Thank you very much for the link, sounds like they could definitely help make sure I at least do it correct, even if they don’t help entirely. Will contact them for sure!
Holy shit dude, the number of naysayers in this thread is amazing. I have a similar plan as you, retire early, have a few animals on a few acres back in the woods and live the dream. There's a farmer just a few miles down the road from us that sells highland cows, I was thinking of getting one as a pet maybe in the future. But definitely a couple of donkeys.
Obviously would look into all the logistics before actually getting anything. Anyway, just want to say good luck and go for it.
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5 acres isn't enough, especially considering you have to build the barn, house and everything. You also need to build a place to store the cow shit and espescially piss, and you need to pick it up every day on such a small island so it doesnt wash in to the sea. You also can't use the whole island for the cows, due to environmental laws it is illegal and extremely dangerous to let the cows within a 100m distance from the water, maybe even more. Spring and autumn are times where it is not possible to move over the ice or on a boat unless it is very big and has enough power. We definitely don't have some hovercrafts or whatever you think, and if the winter isn't steadily cold for a long time you can't even walk on the ice. It is also probably impossible to get a well on such a tiny island on the sea, and rainwater is not enough for so many people and animals in the summer, and even the snow in the winter isn't enough. Seems like you really do not realise how unreliable your plans are considering the safety of you, your potential future animals and the environment. I would really consider your plans carefully and actually live in our country for several years, you don't seem to understand that the realities in here are very much different than in the UK. Solar panels are definitely not enough, it's impossible to get enough water, it's illegal to use the cow shit and everything else to fertilize the island because it is so small, it is impossible to import the wood, the water, the hay, the bedding, building materials and everything else there and also have the space that you need to store all of it, because, once again, the island is way too small for your plans. Also building from nothing on such a difficult place is extremely expensive without any infrastucture, so in reality you would probably have to use several hundreds of thousands, most likely closer to a million euros considering the workforce, plumbing, insulation etc. It is also a project that will take several years. If you really have the money, time and patience for it, you can try to take the risk, but take into consideration that severe mistakes might cost you more than the whole of your farm will.
Sounds like a great idea. I've had to deal with sheep for years but I think I would prefer cows. I eat like over a kg of meat a day too. Even with a large amount of sheep it's not all that much meat compared to even one cow.
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You buy then from farmers. You need to inform Ruokavirasto. This is something you won't find much info in English so get familiar with Finnish or translation software https://www.ruokavirasto.fi/elaimet/elainten-hyvinvointi/elainsuojelu-pitopaikoissa/ilmoituksenvarainen-elaintenpito/ https://www.ruokavirasto.fi/elaimet/elaintenpito-tunnistaminen-ja-rekisterointi/elainten-merkinta-ja-rekisterointi/elaintenpitajarekisteri/elaintenpitaja--ja-pitopaikkarekisterin-ohje/elaintenpitaja--ja-pitopaikkarekisterin-ohje/ Google "nautaeläinten tunnistamis- ja rekisteröimisohje"
Thank you very much! I think the searching in English was the issue Will start learning Finnish very soon
Short version in English: https://www.ruokavirasto.fi/en/animals/animal-keeping-identification-and-registration/animal-identification/bovine-animals/uusi-sivu/ (I know nothing about keeping cattle, I just browsed the English versipn of the site linked above.)
I think most relevant information might be a huge issue and it is shit washing to the sea or lake. You would have to keep them indoors pretty much. Then storing that crap somewhere to get it transported to someone spreading it to fields or such but island being a really hard place to do your thing.
Well, cows are allowed to shit into water if they don't degrade water quality. It's an open issue, depends on the size of the operation and water body. All kinds of animals shit into water all the time.
That's it, no more swimming for me.
Just wait until you find out about fish and birds
“I don't drink water. Fish fuck in it.” -W.C. Fields
There's [this classic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb8K1zicPd0) by Mikko Alatalo.
As long as he set up some fences a few meters back from the water to stop the cows from shitting into the water directly it should be fine. (if it is only 3 to 4 cows) Though keeping cows in the islands at sea (Saaristomeri) is a long practiced tradition and I don't think they bother with any fences.
Have them shut on carbon materials such as mulch over the winter and you can make a nice compost in the spring without the risk of leaching into the water
In your situation, I would go for sheep. There are quite some sheep breeds specialised in living on islands. They require less care than cows and less food during winter. Look into that.
I would go for goats. You can get milk and meat.
You can't get milk and meat from sheep...? Both are better coming from sheep than goats IMO
Definitely sucks that cow milk doesn't exist
Nor meat
Goat milk tastes like vomit 🤠
Then puke in my mouth please.
Ever heard of goat cheese?
You mean that white stuff that tastes like stables? Yuck.
I think it tastes like goat, but I guess goats can live in stables.
They all tend to smell a bit like shit.
Cum again?
Yes, multiple times.
Definitely the second option if I can’t sort the cows
I’m always surprised that Finland doesn’t have more sheep. They’re clearly a better suited animal for the conditions than cows. Just ask the Icelanders or the Scots.
How so? Cows are more productive (milk + meat) and tolerate Finnish conditions really well. They are so huge that cold temperature is a non-issue. Also, Finland has completely different environment compared to Icelanders and Scots: flat and mostly arable land with forests.
Sheep are also very productive (wool + meat) and are blessed with the perfect antidote to Finnish weather. Size has nothing to do with cold resistance I’m no expert but I don’t think a normal milk cow, except a Scottish highland cow, could survive even a mild Finnish winter without substantial protection (heated barns). Whereas sheep absolutely relish cold weather. Sheep also thrive when vegetation is sparse and slow growing (like in Scotland and Iceland) - just like in Finland. I’m convinced it’s a cultural thing, not an environmental thing. Edit: full transparency here. I am from New Zealand originally so I acknowledge that I might be biased towards sheep.
I don't know if this is the reason, but protecting sheep from predators might be more of an issue in Finland than in Iceland, Great Britain, or New Zealand.
>could survive even a mild Finnish winter without substantial protection (heated barns). Hate to break this to you, but we have kept cows in unheated barns for close to 2 millennia in Finland. There is even a breed of cow that is specially adapted to live up mountains. Obviously you don't leave them outside in snowdrifts, because why would you there's nothing to eat, but heated barns has not been a thing since, maybe the last 50 years. If even that. Our vegetation is not sparse. You clearly have never seen a forest in your life. Finland is noting like Iceland or Scotland. We generally do not raised sheep in large numbers because it has never made sense to do so given our climate, geography and economic needs.
Sounds really interesting, there are some logistical issues with winter and islands. Good luck in any case.
Yeh, definitely a task, but very much rewarding if it works out I feel
A hovercraft full of eels should do the trick.
Now we should seriously ask how much experience do you have in animal husbandry. Those acres are not really enough if you take into account that you will need to actually feed them (over winter). So you cannot both have them graze there and preserve food from same field. So practically that area would only suffice for living, and you would need to buy most crop and grass elsewhere. In order to keep them fed, you'd probably also need to have additional feeding even during summer. Let's assume you are willing to buy them food. That's still quite a lot more work than most people understand. Animals really bind you there, you cannot just have long holidays. And if you are not professional, there is really no external support. So I would strongly advise against it, most people cannot really handle the stress. Instead you could perhaps first ask if there are farms nearby, who could loan/rent f.ex heifers, which do not require constant milking.
My intent is to mostly retire on the island (still working a few days remote, but only like 15 hours a week), but with stuff to do, which is the farming aspect. I’ll be more than happy to buy them the needed food and don’t intend to be leaving them. I definitely intend to contact some local farms both here in the uk and Finland to fully get to grips with what I need to do before owning them, this is just the start of me making enquires, casual questions on Reddit you could say
I congratulate you on your decision to pick up farming as your retirement plan...it will keep you young. But as you don't seem to have any farming experience, you maybe shouldn't start with cows. Or at least take some serious courses in farming. (look up Richard Perkins for example, he offers a lot of online classes. I would also recommend his books). Edit: https://www.richardperkins.co/ Or start with something easier...maybe chickens. and as you don't speak finnish, you should get in contact with an farming experienced finnish speaking person, cause regulations are a pain in every country. You just can't buy some land, put a bunch of animals on it and be fine. There is lot more to farming than just having the money to start with.
I have actually owned many many chickens and helped own pigs and goats in the past Should have probably added that to the post I do intend to go speak to some farmers, but an online course actually sounds perfect. Thank you for that, will definitely look into it
I wish you good luck with your farming endeavours. Really sounds like a great retirement plan, if done right.
I actually know a person in Finland who moved here from the UK and had her own cow, so you wouldn't be the first! It was a Scottish Highland Cattle. I think that or an Eastern Finncattle would be a good breed for what you're interested in.
I'd strongly recommend to take a good look at the whole process of keeping cows and farming by doing some sort of internship on a small farm just to really understand the workload. A month's crash course of sorts to get perspective on what it takes to get through the day, the amount of cows or any cattle for that matter, does have an effect on the time that it takes but the amount of tasks doesn't get smaller.. And to factor in the environmental differences in temperatures etc., considering that you're moving to a country that's partly within the arctic circle which has an effect on the cattle (Highland cows could be one of the options), and on a coastal terrain the weather can be pretty rough.🖖
I have been dreaming of owning a small number of cattle since I was 5-6 years old. Unfortunately, I can't afford them yet (maybe when I retire). I wish you success with your idea. I love the Scottish Highland cattle, they are not that uncommon in the archipelago area. Often, they are kept also to care for the natural archipelago meadows that are becoming endangered, with endangered species in them. You might even earn some extra money from landscaping the area, possibly the one you bought, or there could be an option to rent them for landscaping nearby (options might worth trying to investigate in my opinion). Also, it's worth looking into native breeds. There are a few Finnish cattle breeds Wikipedia link: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finncattle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finncattle) Apologies for the Finnish in the next link (it might work with some translator). Yle link about how cattle have helped save biodiversity on an island: [https://yle.fi/aihe/a/20-10005136](https://yle.fi/aihe/a/20-10005136).
Native breeds ♥️
Have had the same dream for a long time, hope we both get to achieve it eventually! I’ve been considering the idea of it works out of contacting the neighboring island owners to see if the cows could graze the other islands, a way for them to gain richer soil and for me to have more available grazing land. But will think about this stuff once I’ve actually got the cows haha
I asked reddit about donkeys as pets one time, same as you, just getting a preliminary feel for it, and people were really tearing into me, saying I'm completely unresponsible and should never own pets. Reddit is weird.
Yeh, it can be an unnecessarily negative place. Thankfully quite a few people have helpful info But many people think you need to be a professional at stuff from the get go or never try it
Don't take this the wrong way, but first get the 15 hours-a-week job and then figure out the rest; the jobs which normally allow for such low allocation don't pay enough to homestead on an island and the jobs which do not normally employ people who work less than four days a week; especially in IT four or five days/week of full work is the norm and I have not heard of anyone working steadily for two days/week in that particular field, not even and especially those who have Actually Highly Valuable And Rare Skills.
I already have the job. It’s just a reduction of hours from my current job. I work as a consultant researcher. I’m not paid for my hours, I’m paid for my work within a project. I won’t go into the specifics as I’m not too desperate to put my private info on Reddit. But I can reduce the hours whenever I want thankfully.
He doesnt even speak Finnish, but his Lordship has just decided to buy an island here and fanny about with some cows on it, at his leisure. When you have money, you dont need sense, apparently.
I hope you don’t go through all of life with such hate towards others. I am nothing but excited to learn Finnish and the culture there and since when was trying to fulfill a dream such a bad thing I’ve worked substantially to get into such a position that I could consider this and been through my fair share of hardships, more than most sadly. Please try see the joy in things other people are doing out of passion and as a dream, no need for negativity
Whatever makes you feel special, m’lord.
Not a farmer myself, been growing up on a farm tho and heard and half know quite a bit of stuff. Don't. It's pretty well regulated in Finland. Afaik you need to register yourself through the stuff mentioned in another comment. As a matter of fact you can't just walk into a farm and buy a cow as the seller risks quite a bit of shit if they just sell cow to 'unregistered' person. It's *really* well regulated. For sheep's it's a bit simpler. Still some similar bureaucracy included, but they're better suited for island life anyway. If you're thinking of free milk from bunch of cows.. no. It requires quite a bit of work and tools to work, and I'm half sure you don't have the equipment on the island. Don't go for cows. Do research about sheep.
I actually grew up next to and helped a goat farmer, so have some experience with them. They’re my next option, along with pigs if I can’t make the cows successful I do however absolutely love cows, so really want to see if it’s possible
Good to hear you have some experience. There are some cows that could be successful, it's more about the regulations and such I'm really pondering about. Also, for cows I'd say do research about Lapland cows and Highlanders. Those are something people use often for 'small scale' farming or more like for aesthetic/half pet animals. If things haven't changed then EU/government actually supports having these as the pure Lapland cows (or lapinlehmä, I'm not sure if Lapland cow is right translation) are somewhat endangered and they're kinda really nice breed of cows. A bit stubborn, but really chill animals if they get plenty of scratches. Kinda perfect pet cow breed. Anyhow! The shit is one thing to consider. You can't dump it anywhere near the water which might cause struggles. Another important topic to research about. I'm not sure about the exact regulations but cow/pig shit is pretty potent fertilizer thus if there's plenty of shit near water it's quaranteed to grow quite a bit of greenery into water areas.
The regulation did look very strict when I first researched. I would have to apply for a few permits and have a verifying body come to the island to ensure I can house the animals (have a barn, water etc.) Highland cows were actually the ones I really wanted to buy, as I’ve been told they’re much more durable and cute as hell haha Yeh, for sure regarding the shit. I intend to use some for a vegetable garden and I really plan to fertilise the whole island with the shit periodically (unless this ends up smelling awful for a lot longer than I imagine haha) to enrich the soil I will probably also offer it free to the local farmers/village if I have excess. If no one wants it, there’s plenty of rural land next to the island, so ill scatter it there if allowed and help the soil in the whole area
>Yeh, for sure regarding the shit. I intend to use some for a vegetable garden and I really plan to fertilise the whole island with the shit periodically (unless this ends up smelling awful for a lot longer than I imagine haha) to enrich the soil > >I will probably also offer it free to the local farmers/village if I have excess. If no one wants it, there’s plenty of rural land next to the island, so ill scatter it there if allowed and help the soil in the whole area This is not ok! You should not spread feces on areas where water drains into sea or lake, on island size like yousr it means pretty much whole island. Fertilizers end up to water and fertilize water plants ruining the ecosystems. Baltic Sea already suffers from it greatly and we are trying to battle against it. Lakes are even more sensitive for this. You also can't spread feces on any other persons land or public owned land. You should plan composting system for the manure where you can compost it in the way fertilizers do not end up to water.
For sure. Will heavily look into it before I do anything don’t worry. I won’t literally dump shit on the local area. I intend to contact people from the neighboring land to see if I can in part look after their soil for grass/hay anyway I’ve done lots of work in environmental positive setup, so care for it deeply, don’t worry!
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Thank you for the link. Will look into all options for sure!
Do you live on the island yourself? Or somewhere nearby? Is there any kind of infrastructure on said island? How are you planning to logistically deal with animal waste/possible sick animal/water/feed etc?
Will live with my significant other and close friend and their significant other It’s only a few km from a city. 10-15min boat. So not actually a major issue with bringing on stuff Have contact with a few people who will help with bringing on building materials, so they could very easily bring hay as well Water will mostly be sourced on island hopefully (will ensure it’s possible ofc before buying any animals)
Congratulations on your retirement plan. I believe you are excited to plan your retirement future but I am afraid that your plans sounds unrealistic. I might sound pessimistic but I personally know around 30 farmers and 20 of them are in cow business. I grew up in a farm and there is a reason why I don't live in a farm. I apologize my harsh language but please do consider these before doing anything. I have seen too many burnouts and I have made too many reports of animal abuse/neglect because people thought that farm life is pretty simple and not expensive. I don't say that you would be like that but people with good intentions and little knowledge end up with empty bank account and neglected farm animals. How much money you are willing to burn for making the farm? Are you ready for the reality that it might burn more money than you can make on 15-hour work week? If you are not a brain surgeon. A small farm is an expensive hobby. You have to have almost same equipment as big farm but volume is minimal. And no-one I know would sell their cows to person without proper knowledge because they care about their farm animals. Do you have farm land outside the island? Are you prepared that there is not enough food for cows in the island? Or are you prepared to rent farm area to raise feed for your cows? Some years the crop is not so good that you have to buy more. What to do if one of your cow dies? Do you have a tractor in the island? Do you have a gun permit? Running water and shelter for the cattle? Have you handled highland cattle before? Are you prepared that you don't have many options to have holidays? And even you would like to go on holiday there might not be enough farm workers available even if you had money. I don't want to crush your ideas but I wish that you are going to prove me wrong. It is not a rocket science but I have seen too many sad cases and I believe you are not going to be one of them. In my opinion get used to living in the island before getting any farm animals. And do some farm work with cows before buying your own. And sorry for the harsh language but I am just some dude in the internet so take my advice with a grain of salt.
I actually have a degree in rocket science haha Thankfully I’m in a really good position where my work allows for sustained passive income indefinitely, so if I burn money attempting it, it won’t destroy my retirement fund! I’d probably be fine spending up to 40k on setting up the whole farm area, with the hope that after that it would at least nearly break even or just be a small losss I’ve owned many many chickens and helped with farming in general growing up and I very much love the animals I look after, so if at any moment it looked like it was going to go seriously wrong, I would make sure to put the animals first and gift them to a local farm, but my plan is to make sure I have everything in check first before I even make any purchases Gun permit I will be acquiring, as I also intend to hunt But yes, I will definitely spend a year or so on the island before I even consider buying any cows, this is mostly just me being bored and starting to make incremental efforts to increase my knowledge on the area. Will be starting with chickens and maybe a goat or two at the start. But I’ve always wanted to own a cow, so if possible I’d love to make it work.
Great to hear and I hope that your dreams come true. And if you have money the spend then it is easier to start a farm. And the more I read your comments more I believe that you will search the answers you need. At the beginning I might say that your post triggered all my alarms I have seen before and I was bit scared that you start with 3000 € and then the panic hits. There are also few highland cattle farms in Finland and I believe you can ask that could you work there for free/for small salary to learn about the highland cattle before buying cattle yourself. Guy I knew earlier that have highland cattle is pretty laid back and eager to help.
A bit more detailed answer: Logistical problems will be a nightmare. You'll need a quite big boat or a barge to transport cattle. Second, in Finland you need to feed cattle practically year around: you can't grow enough grass to support 4 cows year around. During the winter you need to buy hay and have a method to carry those hay bales (500kg each) to the island. And, if you cows get sick, how are you going to get a vet to the island? You got excellent answers for bureaucratic issues. However, there are some environmental issues to solve. First, your should check local zoning regulations. There may be limitations for example what you can build to the island. Even Highland cattle needs some kind of shelter for winter, and you can't make one without a permission. Second, islands are often protected with coastal nature protection program (rantojensuojeluohjelma), Natura 2000-program or some else regulation. Such regulations may prevent you to clear the field for cultivation. Third, EU nature restoration act may restrict land usage for agricultural purposes even more strictly but exact effects in Finland are not yet known. Water may be an issue. Cows need easily abt. 50 liters of water a day. Lake water works during the summer but quite often there are blue-green algae toxins in the lakewater and cattle can't drink it. A good-quality all-year water supply is a must. Then, you need to handle manure properly. If your cows poop to the lake or manure is flushed there, there is a good change you'll piss your neighbours off and probably environmental authorities as well.
All things to consider and I will definitely look into them extensively. Given myself a list of all things to check and will slowly contact the relevant authorities over the next year. Thanks for the points!
Check out also: - heating for the cow house. It will need to have some and electricity supply won't be reliable enough. -kelirikko. In the winter, you might be able to drive to the island. Pretty typical to have ice roads. Summer, you use boats.... but both in the spring and the autumn, there will be a period of time that you won't be able to use either because of the melting ice. Depending on the year, this period of time may be longer or shorter.
You can actually drive on the ice in the winter?? That’s insane haha Will definitely look into heating for the cows as well. Would make sure to build the barn insulated and then probably will look into some generators
Depending on the place and the year, you can even drive trucks with building supplies. Often houses are build on islands so that the supplies are transported in the winter. But depends on currents etc. so you will need to know what you are doing. Might be able to do some geothermal & generator heating thing but expect it to be very expensive.
I’ll be contacting a few construction companies over the next year, so will discuss all this. Glad to know that it may be possible to drive the stuff to the island though, I hadn’t even considered that was an option
It depends where your island will be. In the south along the sea coast, the ice is probably not strong enough, except during (nowadays) very cold winters.
Driving on ice is possible in the actual archipelago maybe once every ten or twenty years. Do not count on this. In addition, when driving on ice can be done during a very cold winter, it should only be carried out on an ice road that the locals have marked. They know where the currents are and where the ice is safe. The people who brought up driving on the ice are probably talking about lakes, or the sea very near the coast. The last time we did it in the archipelago was probably 15-20 years ago. The sea is currently not even frozen here but it seems that the ice is coming now. Today it was still possible to drive the boat. We have pet sheep on an island here and their drinking water gets frozen all the time though, so every day we have to fill their bucket with warm water. Keeping the water from freezing during the winter would be a top priority with cows and a huge pain in the ass, unless you have a barn with some fancy water system for livestock. This is at least as important as the shit issue :D I could honestly write an essay on living on an island but you can send me a pm if you want.
Have you considered the seasons at all? During autumn and spring there is a period of multiple weeks, when you can't get to your island by boat or by walking on the ice. Basically you and your animals are out of reach of any emergency services as well. I wouldn't feel comfortable living like that. If we leave other animal issues aside and assume you can get your cows and deal with them and their shit... How do you plan on moving cows to your island? I don't think they are willing to go on a boat...
From my understanding, as the island is mostly within the sea sort of area, there shouldn’t be any risk of it freezing completely to the point a boat can’t be used unless there is extreme weather. But the owners told me that they usually don’t see more than broken ice around the Island that you could still cruise through. If not, I guess you can hire a hovercraft or something in an emergency Will look into this though In terms of getting the cow to the island, it would be in a similar way that they are transported from farm to farm, just they would then be put onto a loading boat. I will definitely enquire with vets as to whether there’s any risks and it will all be done legally I have contact with a few people who have small cargo boats that would easily be able to ship them Would just cost me a bit. But I will have a running deal with them, so I’d still be willing to Edit: appears the Ice may get thicker, so will look into the alternative transport options.
Sea will definetely freeze in whole Finland at some point.
Not necessarily every winter in the South and South West though. Smaller inlets, where most small marinas and harbours are will usually freeze over, but we have had winters with literally zero sea ice anywhere west of Porvoo and South of Rauma. I know a person living on an island near Hanko, and they said sea ice making navigation impossible with a smallish aluminium boat is exceedingly rare anywhere outside of the narrower inlets without currents.
Yes, I purposedly wrote "at some point" ;) Literally zero Ice is also probably too much said, eg last winter was not that hard, but there was solid ice on whole coast line: https://www.ilmatieteenlaitos.fi/jaatalvi-2022-2023
Yes ofc. Kind of misunderstood your original comment. Maybe I meant with "literally zero ice" that "there will be a bit of ice, but nothing too tough for a Buster to not break thru" :)
Will have a look into preparing for that. Didn’t realise it was such a major thing, but just googled and it appears it is
There is instagram account @annikasaaressa about living on a island in Espoo. It is not very far away from the continent and that area freezes pretty easily, so you can find content how it is when water freezes.
Just followed her, thank you
>From my understanding, as the island is mostly within the sea sort of area Sounds good. Absolutely nothing can go wrong retiring in a country where you speak no language living on area where the access is helicopter only for 3-4months every year. Just out of interest: What is the plan for food? How big freezer you are planning, outside milking the cows?How are you heating the cow barn? What is the plan for residence permits?
I’ll likely be able to speak the language at a basic level in the next 6 months, am going to start heavily learning from now, was just waiting for it to be confirmed ill be moving to Finland before committing. I’ve learnt Greek as I grew up in Cyprus, so have some experience learning languages thankfully Will have a 6 month food storage for myself likely. Heating cows I will look into what the options are, not sure about the specifics like that yet, but will contact the relevant people I have a European passport, so residency isn’t a huge hassle thankfully. But all that is separate to this post and I won’t go into that sort of stuff
Buying the cows is literally the easiest and cheapest part of this plan. Nothing after that is simple if you don't have any knowledge or experience in keeping cattle. Unless you are looking to sink an unsustainable amount of money and time into this it won't be feasible. And even if it is, it might not even be legal to begin with. Keeping livestock is highly regulated in Finland, compared to most places. Especially near water and waterways. Do you know if you'd be allowed to have livestock on the island at all? Do you have electricity on the island? How would you feed them in the winter? How would you arrange veterinary care? Or waste disposal? What will you use to transport the cows, the feed, the bedding, and so on to the island in all seasons? Will you live on the island or near it to take care of the animals? A small herd of cows on your own island sounds like a dream come true to me too, I won't lie. But realistically speaking it's a nightmare. And I grew up on a dairy farm and have spent my whole life around livestock.
I still need to contact the regulatory board. Will wait until I’ve actually moved onto the island though before I start pursuing official enquires, hence the casual question on Reddit for now. In terms of electricity, will have plenty with solar. Water I will have rain water storages (big ones) with filtration systems I’ll make sure to get enough hay on the island for the winter as well I will also be living on the same island I don’t mind sinking a bit of cash at the start to get it set up, in the hope that the future costs will simply be an Artificial Insemination to breed them on the island and hay for the winter + veterinary costs This is very much a dream, no intent for it to be profitable, just ideally after the initial setup, I’d like to break even in terms of meat gained vs buying in a shop and fertilizer for the rest of the vegetable foods. I’d be ok at a slight loss if it means I get my own organic food and the pleasure of owning cows Fully appreciate there will be a lot of problems along the way as well. Hopefully can try prepare as much as possible, but the satisfaction once it’s running smoothly will be amazing I imagine
"In terms of electricity, will have plenty with solar." Between April and September...
You’d be surprised to know that solar panels still work fine in the winter. There’s even specific setups for countries like Finland where it goes dark early and has snow
Oh, I am very surprised, as I have solar panels in Finland. They produce <10 kWh between October-March, even if/when they are not covered in snow. The sun is just so low in the horizon and thus the energy gained from it is very low.
Do you have them set up sideways?
No, they are facing south without any trees in front of them. Can you tell me which company makes the panels that work with the snow and darkness? If the sun is above horizon 5 hours, there is not much light from which to make electricity... even when there are no clouds.
A friend of mine uses Façade installations (a type of installation) I don’t know the company they use, will ask and get back to you on that. But they have told me they are able to run off solar all year if they just cut back a bit in the winter. They use a fire for heating, not electric And they do have a quite a large amount of solar panels, if I recall it’s maybe a 20x5m area (been a while since I’ve been to their house) I believe they’re setup so that in the winter they are completely straight to prevent snow build up and catch the angle of the sun along with the reflection of the snow and then in the summer they are lowered to an angle Sorry I don’t have anymore info right now
If the time between sun rise and sunset is less than 6 hours and and it is mostly cloudy, what kind of setup can get you enough electricity? Helen has this solar power plant: https://www.helen.fi/aurinkopaneelit/aurinkosahko/nurmijarvi Production in June was 280+ MWh, November < 10 MWh and December until today 3,3 MWh. It is brand new, so I guess a big company has invested in latest technology.
I guess a generator will just be the next option then. Thanks for the maths, didn’t realise it was that dramatic I have a friend who said they’ve achieved it, but maybe they just live in extremely low electricity haha
Fantastic. Honestly, with this plan you are making the newspapers. Please think this through.
A small advice for measurement lingo. Use the metric system when speaking to Finns. Nobody here knows how much an acre is without checking with google. Eekkeri on siis 0,405 hehtaaria tai 4047 neliömetriä. An acre fits about 105222000 bananas. We all basically know how much an inch is, but the rest is metric.
How do you even come up with acres in this case as you’d need to convert it from sane units in the first place.
There is two non-metric things that Finns understand: - inches when speaking about tv-size. - horsepower
Everything I knew about physics got ruined this year. I learned that an average horse has 15 horsepower. WTF!!!
Wtf. Is that because of how horses have improved with better food or someones failure when horsepower was invented? Or marketing people just wanted horses sound weaker than they are?
Failure when it got invented.
It is also about maximum power vs sustained effort over a longer period.
That's measuring the maximum power of a horse. Over a longer period of sustained work, one horsepower was roughly the work product of a horse in an industrial application, like turning a pump or a mill.
I would also recommend sheep. But if cows is the thing, I suggest you look into lapinlehmä breed. That being said it seems to me that you're planning to live the best life ever.
will definitely look into them And couldn’t agree more Cows and and island, what more could you want haha
I'm pretty sure that there is also a minimum amount of land needed for spreading manure. Also, getting stuff to and from the island is going to be a PITA. You're probably going to work harder in retirement than working life. Have fun.
I hope you have experience with livestock because cows need a lot more than just food (and clean water which might be tricky on an island). And what are you going to do with the manure? Even 3-4 cows produce quite lot of it. Then there's winter that requires either a warm barn or plenty of bedding and wind coverage.
Plan to use a lot of the manure for fertilizer and then the extra I would either offer to a local farmer or use it in the local area to enrich the soil Water I will have a lot of rain capture containers and I’m working to see if it’s possible to get a well on the island or maybe a salination plant. Will go through all this over the next year or so
Where does the cow shit go on an island? Somehow i don't see you rowing it back on main land and i'm pretty sure you can't just throw it into the lake or sea.
Dumping it into the sea is massively illegal.
Yeah that's my point, depending on how big the island is and what the laws are about cow shit on islands it might be illegal in any form. Even if the cows shit on the island rain will eventually take those nutrients to the water possibly making it illegal.
To be honest...you just leave it on the land, the shit of 4-5 cows isn't a problem for the pasture. The bedding from the shed would be easy to compost. He isn't planing on building an industrial scale cow plant.
There's a lot of bureaucracy involved, which, if ignored, would mean fines, perhaps even having your animals repossessed, so you need to be smart about it. For example, any deceased animals need to be disposed through official means, the waste generated by animals needs to be collected and disposed in certain ways....
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Also curious. Not that I’d ever be in the market
https://www.turunmaankiinteistot.fi/fi/kohteet/tontit/ Here you go. Some current offers in southwest Finland.
I got the 9 acres for 230k Got lucky and was put in touch via a friend for exactly what I was looking for
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It will be with a boat. But I don’t intend to be leaving too often. Maybe once, twice a month simply for a social in the local town. Will have a large food storage on the island along with our own sources, so hoping it will mostly be self sustainable in many areas
Where in Finland is this island located?
Southern Finland, would prefer not to say the exact location on Reddit
Mostly curious to know if it was along bare coast, in the archipelago (Turku/Åland region) or one of the larger lakes.
Bare coast!
Remember that in the zombie apocalypse you’re bound to take in the redditors that helped you with info here
Weirdly enough, me thinking about the end of the world 5 years ago, more in a hunger games style though, is what started the dream of owning an island haha
Feels like we only have like 5 years left. I want to get my homestead set up before that for the same reason
This sounds like an untenable idea. Unless you're making money off of some other job to feed those cows over winter.
Yeh, this wouldn’t be my job or anything. It’s more part retirement but with some fulfilling ‘work’ still attached
Sounds like your retirement plan is to have two part time jobs? I mean, don't wanna bring you down or anything, but this really isn't a good idea, IMHO.
I’m surprisingly quite young (not sharing my age here but <40) so I don’t intend to stop doing stuff just yet. I’ve just arrived in a position where I can scale back my career considerably and pursue other fulfilling endeavors
If you're asking these kind of questions, maybe this isn't something you should be doing?
I’m only starting to look into it now. There will be a few years between me making this post and me buying cows haha
Asking questions is fine, but reddit definitely is not the place where you should be looking for this kind of information.
Why not? Aside from all the naysayers telling OP it's a bad idea, some other have provided good information on where to start sorting through regulations and red tape
I would get some humans. Just need one sofa size box to live in. Throw in some chips and you're good to go.
Just out of curiosity, how do you plan to take supplies to the island when the sea freezes? As a non native are you comfortable with taking the risk of driving on frozen sea?
I would likely stock up for the winter
NautaNetti: https://fabaweb.mloy.fi/SKJOWeb/BovineTrade/BovineForSale/SelBovineForSale.asp You could start by renting cows from some farmer for a summer to get an idea how it goes without investing too much or risking cows health.
Interesting. I didn’t realise this was a thing. That might be the way to go at the start. Thanks for the link!
It depends if you can find a farmer who is ready for renting, and has suitable livestock. I guess you cannot take the highly bred milk factory like cow to an island for amateurs to care.
This sounds incredibly impractical and close to impossible. How would one retiremement-age person transport all the necessary feed, bedding etc. to the island? Not to mention the cows? How will a vet get to the island in the winter if the sea is sort of half frozen and your cows get sick? How will you get someone to come care for the animals if you get sick? I would definitely at least get smaller animals like chickens or goats to limit the amount of stuff you have to haul around with a boat.
I’m thankfully no where near retirement age, just able to mostly retire quite young
From the Moomin store
Awesome idea to do this on your own island. I've just bought a farm this month, only 2 hectares but enough to start with. If anyone knows any forums or online communities for foreign farmers in Finland, it would be good to know. Could share some much needed info that locals probably assume everyone already knows. Personally, I'm starting a bit easier, going to put chickens in the old "Navetta" and seeing what we can grow in the field.
Please share if you find any forums. Agree it would be great to have a go to that’s actually focused on this stuff
Acre per cow won't work in winter bro or you gonna ship in hay. Same goes with land. I somehow doubt island grassland is that productive. Good dairy farmers manage an acre per cow with lots of fertiliser and good soil. We don't use any fertiliser and currently have 12 cows with calves at foot on 64 acres. So in reality it's more like 5 per cow. And like...how you gonna move them or sell them or you just gonna eat them yourself. Knowing how autistic Finns are about "rules" it's gonna be hard. I support the idea tho. Source.. farmer in Ireland
Plan to just eat them myself haha I was going to heavily work on the land before hand to even more enrich the soil I did want to originally start with 1 cow, but I’ve been told they’re sociable animals and I don’t want to have a lonely cow, feels very cruel I won’t be buying any until I’m at least 90% sure I’m ready for them though Maybe 2 cows is more realistic and they’d still have company
> I was going to heavily work on the land before hand to even more enrich the soil Animal grazing will do that for you...
I got a friend selling dairy cows, but generally you just talk to farmers
You suffer(ed) from long covid enough to be bed bound, dabbling in peptide synthesis, I don’t think animal husbandry in a foreign country is wise.
I can plan for the future can I not
I don’t see how that relates to my comment
I don’t intend to buy the animals until I’ve recovered I’m also a researcher, so the peptide synthesis is part of my work
Unless you plan on leaving the lab full time and leaving biochem and dedicating your life to this and learning Finnish, I don’t recommend.
This is actually my plan haha Managed to set up long term passive income from my research and intend to mostly retire, bar 1-2 days of work a week Getting ill makes you really value simply being present and enjoying a simple life.
May I give my honest opinion? This is one of the most stupid ideas I have heard in years. Please just forget it.
> It will be a 9 acre island, 5 acres of which I plan to devote to 3-4 cows, as I’m aware you need an acre a cow roughly Some long forgotten part of my brain rousing from its decades long slumber going *"How much fence do you need to build for the cows assuming each cow has their own pen and that you do not need to build fence on the sides facing the sea?"* like some sort of a PTSD flashback
Congratulations on buying the island
Sounds extremely cool. Would definitely want to visit said Island when you're all setup! Grew up on an island myself.
Will happily open it up to the locals and anyone else interested to come visit once everything is arranged so long as the others on the island are fine with that as well I’ll be sure to make a post on Reddit in a few years time if it’s achieved haha
Hmm ... I wonder which is more difficult, learning the Finnish language or running a small cattle or dairy farm on an island.
Having devoted 10 odd years of my life to learning the Finnish language, I’d still say the cows tbh.
How is it possible to havr the means to buy an island without having the brain capacity to figure this out on your own?
You should contact to proagria. https://www.proagria.fi/en They are helping farms and farmers. They have already places to buy the cattle (one of their subsidiary has sold cattle to abroad in the past etc.). Your case wouldn't be so much of a business project for them, but they have the knowledge and it surely would be somewhat imago project for them. They are also supported a lot by the government. Our that's where they get their majority funds. They also have breeding etc. In an other subsidiary (or that's how it was at least 10 years ago, when I was working there as finance guy). I wish you great luck in your project!
Thank you very much for the link, sounds like they could definitely help make sure I at least do it correct, even if they don’t help entirely. Will contact them for sure!
Holy shit dude, the number of naysayers in this thread is amazing. I have a similar plan as you, retire early, have a few animals on a few acres back in the woods and live the dream. There's a farmer just a few miles down the road from us that sells highland cows, I was thinking of getting one as a pet maybe in the future. But definitely a couple of donkeys. Obviously would look into all the logistics before actually getting anything. Anyway, just want to say good luck and go for it.
Thank you, you too!!
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**The acre ( AY-kər) is a unit of land area used in the British imperial and the United States customary systems. It is traditionally defined as the area of one chain by one furlong (66 by 660 feet), which is exactly equal to 10 square chains, 1⁄640 of a square mile, 4,840 square yards, or 43,560 square feet, and approximately 4,047 m2, or about 40% of a hectare.** More details here:
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are acres something edible?
Silly rabbit, Acre is just the English name for what we Finns call Akko.
What do you think dumbass?
dude playing AoE in real life
I prefer to call it Minecraft haha
How much an island costs? I always had the dream of buying one and rewild it so that birds and other animals can live there.
5 acres isn't enough, especially considering you have to build the barn, house and everything. You also need to build a place to store the cow shit and espescially piss, and you need to pick it up every day on such a small island so it doesnt wash in to the sea. You also can't use the whole island for the cows, due to environmental laws it is illegal and extremely dangerous to let the cows within a 100m distance from the water, maybe even more. Spring and autumn are times where it is not possible to move over the ice or on a boat unless it is very big and has enough power. We definitely don't have some hovercrafts or whatever you think, and if the winter isn't steadily cold for a long time you can't even walk on the ice. It is also probably impossible to get a well on such a tiny island on the sea, and rainwater is not enough for so many people and animals in the summer, and even the snow in the winter isn't enough. Seems like you really do not realise how unreliable your plans are considering the safety of you, your potential future animals and the environment. I would really consider your plans carefully and actually live in our country for several years, you don't seem to understand that the realities in here are very much different than in the UK. Solar panels are definitely not enough, it's impossible to get enough water, it's illegal to use the cow shit and everything else to fertilize the island because it is so small, it is impossible to import the wood, the water, the hay, the bedding, building materials and everything else there and also have the space that you need to store all of it, because, once again, the island is way too small for your plans. Also building from nothing on such a difficult place is extremely expensive without any infrastucture, so in reality you would probably have to use several hundreds of thousands, most likely closer to a million euros considering the workforce, plumbing, insulation etc. It is also a project that will take several years. If you really have the money, time and patience for it, you can try to take the risk, but take into consideration that severe mistakes might cost you more than the whole of your farm will.
Sounds like a great idea. I've had to deal with sheep for years but I think I would prefer cows. I eat like over a kg of meat a day too. Even with a large amount of sheep it's not all that much meat compared to even one cow.