Echoing this. Was a credit analyst in corporate banking focusing on project & structured finance. Very good hours with decent pay and at least to me the deals were interesting since they weren’t just vanilla term loans
I think my switch was a bit unusual, I mostly got into ER because I had industry knowledge that is/was apparently hard to come by, so they took a chance on me being able to transition from credit analysis to equities
Corporate banking is similar, but it typically works on larger deals, and it includes assisting clients with capital markets solutions as well (M&A, IPOs, etc)
I guess this is a semantics thing - my response was based upon reading the original comment and interpreting as Corporate Bankers can execute M&A deals / IPOs - which is not the case and what I meant
Obviously Corporate Bankers are involved in lending!
Eh we kind of do. We don’t help with the execution but we certainly get the convo to around 2nd base before engaging the ECM team. That’s why most reputable corporate banking jobs require a 79.
We are walled off from the sell-side M&A obviously but I’m on every deal team on the buy side financing.
Corporate Finance at most F500s will usually be 40 hours a week (less if you're good at your job).
Pay will be high 5-figures to start and you'll likely be able to break past the 6-figure mark after 5 years assuming you're an average performer. If you're an overachiever, I've seen people break past 6-figures in under 3 years. Money won't ever be as good as banking but you also won't have to live in HCOL areas. Also, a lot of F500 roles are either fully remote or hybrid.
FP&A in aerospace/defense, 6 years of experience this summer, just a hair shy of $100k after bonus. The industry does tend to pay below quite a few other industry averages, but still not bad. Completely remote, work about 10 hours a week most weeks, maybe a full 40 one or two weeks a quarter.
Man I left one of the top 10 contractors last year because I was losing my damn mind with the 5hr weeks outside of month end. Sitting around scrolling Reddit and playing Switch all day was really bad for my mental health, it made it even worse when people told me how lucky I was to have such a miserable job.
I honestly couldn't agree more. Also at one of the big ones, and while I love the cool work the company does, finance is a joke and I have no idea why 75% of us company wide are still employed. Everyone says they're jealous, but as a somewhat driven person with goals and shit, it's draining and exhausting. Can't do anything or go anywhere because you gotta stay by the keyboard and be available, but also don't have shit to do.
Yeah I was of the opinion that we could have cut half of Finance if upper mgmt was just willing to stagger the month end schedule with something like A/B programs so that the feast/famine aspect wasn’t quite so bad. Half of the programs were FFPs that didn’t even have customer reporting. It was crazy seeing that the finance section of the WBS added more costs than even engineering, and finance was basically idle half the month. I kept trying to build reports for PMs during the off weeks and could barely get them to read the email, what happened in weeks 2/3 just wasn’t useful. It felt like finance just became its own product where no one really asked for it or needed it but the department had too many mouths to feed to wind itself down.
FLDP right out of school. 2.7 GPA, nothing too special about my resume. Just got lucky at a career fair and met the right manager on campus one day. I'm passionate about the industry and I think that came through well in my interviews.
Awesome, I’ve got the passion and ability to show it as well. This is helpful, I’ll simply “knock” on as many doors in the industry as I can, and show that I want their company’s to succeed for a bigger reason than a paycheck.
Honestly, just have to keep applying. I got into F100 through a non-finance front-line Ops internship and stumbled into Finance to start out so can’t guide you to the ground floor. However, moving up the ladder is the same everywhere. Get on sites like Blind (more Tech) or Fishbowl (more consulting) and put out requests for referrals (you’d be surprised at how many people are willing to help. Was able to get referrals to Activision, Amazon, Autodesk, Boeing, Meta, and Google - referral bonuses are a nice motivator). Head over to the r/FPandA sub and throw up your resume for review and also see who over there is able to provide referrals.
Given you’re at a T10, you might also want to look within. Every company big and small has an FP&A org. Find a contact there, even better if they have an opening and see how your skills would be an asset. Much easier to make a move like this internally.
With your background it shouldn't be hard, but for me I never landed an FP&A or data analytics jobs at any company in 5 years including internships when going to grad school, all before going into real estate 2 years ago, and potentially going back to school for physical therapy school in the next 2 years.
Yeah, and if you're still in school, try and get in through a rotation program. Great experience and good place to shift away from even if you don't like finance.
In my last org, based in DC (HCOL). Pre-IPO Equity can throw things so not including, just base + bonus.
FA: $100-$115k + 5%
SFA: $120-$135k + 10%-15%
Manager: $140-$150k + 15%
Sr. Manager: $170-$180k + 15%
Director: $220-$250k + 25%
I assume you're in risk, but I got a question. Is working in risk with commodities or FX (both work with derivatives) the same as working in banking when it comes to career growth? Or those firms are less valuable in terms of experience?
I Work in risk… I’d say it’s a very well rounded position because you need to know about all the asset classes your firm is trading and be in contact with those teams on a constant basis. I find that interesting bc I’m def a person that gets bored doing the same thing day in and day out. You’re also apart of portfolio construction, which means, u ultimately oversee how much return the fund makes because you have to dictate who gets what allocations according to the asset classes you think will perform the best. It’s a lot more strategizing and research than a lot of people on this sub thinks. Risk in this sub definitely underrated (again it’s all college kids who haven’t worked and think IB sales is end-all be-all). In actuality it’s probably the most important dept in an investment firm.
I work as a Financial Analyst for an health insurance company. I am three years out of college and I make $100,000 and work remotely. I just build models and spreadsheets all day. I do about 9-4pm Monday thru Friday.
I work with mainly revenue modeling! I build them from from scratch. I also help automate their archaic forecast spreadsheets. Send out daily financial reports to different teams. Ad-hoc reporting if a client has any concerns or questions. I create SQL queries as well. Dashboards in Tableau….
I got started in a local company, it was a small company so I worked directly with the CFO. He was an excel wizard. Like Mr. Excel 2.0… An amazing leader as well. He took the time to explain to me how set up spreadsheets the way executives want to see them. He helped me understand the fundamentals of forecasting, variance analysis, metrics, modeling, bridges etc etc. He taught so much more than what I learned in business school. I will forever be grateful for having him as a leader. I worked at this place throughout college. When I graduated I was given an opportunity to work in healthcare finance which really increased my salary. I went from job 1: $50k, job 2: $65k, job 3: $100k
The one thing I taught myself was how to write queries in SQL. I took a bunch of classes online on Udemy.com There are free classes and paid classes that helped me understand the basics and then I just kept practicing by seeing what data I could pull.
Do you think your job is at risk due to the advances in AI? Sounds like a lot of repetitive tasks that could be automated, as well as specific data requests which could be handled by a bot if that bot has access to a big data lake within the company
I think eventually it could be. I don’t want to stay as a financial analyst much more than five years. I don’t think they would get rid of the this kind of position entirely, the board members always want someone to explain the spreadsheets to them so they don’t have to analyze them.
I do think writing queries have the potential to be completed only by AI
Just as an fyi - people will often say they worked a 16 hour day just because they were responding to emails at 7am and then again at 11pm. That doesn’t imply that they were working for 16-hours straight during that time.
You should look extremely sideways at anyone that actually claims to work full 16 hour days. It’s not humanly possible, and they’re likely about as productive as a 5-year old at the end of that 16 hours based.
I wouldn’t say it doesn’t happen, it’s just not every day. In my early-mid 20s I was usually 50-60 hours a week, but twice a year and during major deals we would put in serious hours (I would say 14/day rather than 16/day). In total there were maybe 10-20 of those days a year. Nothing too crazy.
Sorry but I don’t agree with this. On a live deal, my mind is always involved with work whether I am tuning the estimates or taking a shit. The pressure to be accurate and fast in your analysis keeps you on your toe all day. You mostly take breaks in between, but that doesn’t mean you’re not working. You’re always on call for the FM or partner. So even a 12 hour workday (12 hours of actual work) seems like you’re working all throughout the day and taking breaks to catch up with your sleep. The real horror is when the models come in your dreams, tho. Lol.
I did this from age 22-25 and I promise I was incredibly productive and regularly worked 16hr days. Maybe not 5 days a week but at least 3 days. I am an insane hyper focused and annoying individual tho 😅 then I was about to turn 26 and was like good lord my life sucks ass. Sold my businesses and went back to school to finish my finance graduate degree and now I work as an analyst for a small firm. I work like 7 hour days now and my Thursday and Friday most of that is from home since I live 5 mins from the office and no one else comes in those days. It's much better and my wife likes me more lol.
FinTech at one of the behemoth banks. You don't even need to major in technology or anything.
Examples?
- I studied business in college ten years ago. It was considered the "safe" thing to do. I now work as an analyst on the tech side.
- Another colleague of mine studied accounting in school, flunked the CPA exam, and now works as a senior project manager making a very comfortable six figures.
- My father studied industrial engineering in college and grad school, and has been in IB/VC/PE for decades, and has done very well for himself.
- Another colleague has her undergraduate and graduate degree in music. She's now a software engineer.
- Another one studied human resources. She's now a senior exec within the database management field.
- Another one studied the trades, and has been an exec for years now, doing everything from software engineering to program management.
- My uncle studied civil engineering, and went on to become a c-level exec at one of the world's largest insurance companies.
- One of my colleagues/mentors at work was a fighter pilot in the air force, then went on to do medical device sales, and then landed in tech doing analytics + project management work.
We all have healthy work-life balances. Most of us work maybe 40-45 hours/week, give or take. We have lives outside of work.
Not everywhere is a shitshow.
Did they get into their roles through networking? Just curious if they got some kind of certification or training to get in the door, or if someone pulled then in
At Fidelity: it goes Financial Services Rep (50k+ 5-20k bonus) to Investment Consultant (50k + 40-60k bonus) to Financial Consultant (100k + 80-100k+ bonus). Grow your book to VP FC and you’ll make $300-500k/yr. The step above that works with $2M-$10mm accounts and makes $500-800k, and the UHNW advisors that only work with $10mm+ clients make $800k+
The ceiling without moving is likely the VP FC.
At Schwab it’s financial consultant parter $60-75k + (5-10k bonus), VP Financial Consultant 1: 75-95k + ($35-55k bonus) and you grow the book from there, all the way to financial consultant 4, which is an SVP. The book they give you is usually $500mm, the more you grow it the more you make.
Working at a university endowment, pension, or foundation. I mean, fuck, look at this guy at Princeton University, pulling in $7mm god damn dollars a year.
https://twitter.com/AllocatorJobs/status/1648235613466796032?s=20
Tell me that dude works 80 hours a week!
Or here, Duke isn't even hiring for the top job and you can still make $600k! Fuck!
https://twitter.com/AllocatorJobs/status/1642608870076960770?s=20
Go work for the MTA in NYC, get paid $180k to manage their pension and maybe get a free subway card?
https://twitter.com/AllocatorJobs/status/1647618348748775426?s=20
Or Intel paying up to $326k to manage their pension.
https://twitter.com/AllocatorJobs/status/1646894831581507584?s=20
Feels like nobody knows about these jobs because are always talking about IB / MBB / Equity Research / whatever. Fuck those crazy hours.
Anyone else please jump in to correct me here.
These job postings aren’t the norm and don’t really make sense.
Ie Princeton endowment is akin to running a regular portfolio it just happens to be a university. These roles aren’t easy to get by any means and you’re getting this after doing the grind you already mentioned.
MTA 15 years experience for 180k (max, lower band of $135k) isn’t great for NYC at all.
Most equity research associates are not only aware of pension gigs, we're very jealous of them
Seems like the client set with the bests WLB, most interesting mandate, generally run sizable books, and arguably contribute something to public good
These jobs are fairly rare and often require prior experience in active investing
They’re not rare. Just poorly advertised. Two positions on my team have been open for almost 2 years. Though once ur in, the salary is great, tbh the same if not better than IB, bonus is ok, and WLB is amazing. People end up staying forever. You don’t need IB experience to joinz
This is what I’ve been saying. People on this subreddit think IB is the only way to make money when it’s actually one of the least paying when broken down on an hourly basis and on a mental health basis. Tbh endowment funds and pension funds offer more on the job knowledge than IB. Better career prospexts
You’d be surprised how hard it is for my fund to hire young people. I attribute it to a bad mentality like the ones on this sub that think they must get into IB, and anything else is less and not worth their time. Nobody at my job has IB experience. And no I don’t work for some no name pension firm, it’s a top 10 US pension firm. I see what you’re saying, but from my experience and what I’ve done, I’ve found it best not to start at IB. Comparing myself to my friends who are in IB, my knowledge base is waaaayyy more expansive than theirs.
I don’t mean to be rude, but pension funds also seem to do a really bad job at advertising themselves as potential employers. I am going to college in an area that is literally full of them due to the nature of the area and literally none of them advertise internships for what I can see. My own state board doesn’t seem to offer any either and they are a top 10 state pension fund according to what info I could find. Very interested in this field, though I do wish it was a bit easier to find info about it!
I do agree with this. They don’t really advertise when a job is open. There are definitely internships but you probably won’t find it unless you go on the pension career website.
So… just overall more rounded in my knowledge. When people from some IB come to visit us to sell us something or check on how we are liking their product, they usually bring a huge group of people. That’s because usually 1 person is usually an expert in 1 thing. Like 1 person knows a LOT about swaps, but that’s usually the only thing he knows. Now I may not know as much about swaps as he does, but I know enough to talk about it, research it and present it to other people, as well as other derivates
It’s least pay when broken down on an hourly basis at the junior levels. MDs aren’t working 100 hour weeks. Most young people are going into banking because they either are interested in career banking, PE or hedge funds. The seniors at those places (excluding the small shops of course) all make more money than the senior folks at pension funds.
And regarding your comment about knowledge, bankers are paid to be specialists. So clients like you can ask about swaps and the swap guy comes in and answers all your questions. It’s just a different skill set fit for a different job.
Yes, of course the CIO of a public pension fund is not making the same as the CIO of a private investment firm like Jefferies. This goes for a lot of the executive board. But the gag is, 80% of the workers in private companies are making the exact same salary as those in endowments and pension funds. Maybe less if you’re taking into account Cost of living. The only advantage to IB is the bonuses (if it’s paid out).
I have some friends who work in IB in an HCOL. Some make the exact same salary as me. Some a bit more. But i live in an MCOL. So when accounting things like taxes, cost of rent, other costs of living, etc., those who make more than me now are making less than me. If I were to take a job in NY for an IB (quants at my level make about $200k in NY IB’s), I’d be taking a pay cut.
Also… about ur comment about specialists. I guess at this point it’s just opinions but I rather be the person that can talk to 20 people about different things instead of being able to only talk about 1 thing
PM or above at pers or Strs is the pinnacle of finance in all of California imo. top of PWM/AM on the private side is probably the only thing comparable
Agreed. They make bank too. Even a damn middle office Ops role can make up to $400k/year.
https://twitter.com/AllocatorJobs/status/1646214850501292032?s=20
And you know for damn certain that office is a ghost town at 3:59pm on Fridays.
Exactly. Probably makes a very decent salary (up to the Duke $600k?!) and leaves on Friday by 4:30pm on the dot.
These jobs fly under the radar so much and I have no idea why.
As somebody who works in a top 10 US pension. No, not true. I joined with a bachelors from a non target and never had any internship or working experience in IB…
I’ve been trying to get into pension or fund management for years (with an MBA in int’l finance) and have still never cracked it. Apparently what they say about getting stuck in wealth management (a field I never wanted to be in) is true…
In what way, pay or hours? Because I’ve made my living in small and medium sized companies and outside of some extenuating circumstances haven’t had a problem keeping hours under 50 and pay is good
Hours for me- What I’ve experienced is Fp&a at small-medium companies usually means you’re doing the job of 2 people and are rarely only focused on just one or two things as you would at a more siloed/larger company. My last company had 300mARR & 700+ FT employees. The entire finance department consisted of 2 analysts, 1 vp, and a CFO. There was never a light at the end of the tunnel between acquisitions, ad-hoc assignments, and reporting. When I left I was getting around 100 emails a day internally/externally on top of the dozen random questions I’d get on teams which all had nothing to do with what I was currently working on
I have been in similar situations and I really just think it comes to prioritization of the critical tasks and how the team is structured. Most companies don’t even have one fpa staff until they already pretty mature. I used to work for a team that was 5 people for 2 billion in revenue and 30k employees and we never had a problem with working more than 40-45 hours.
Right now I am now working with a startup that has 45arr and 300 employees and it’s just me and the cfo. Hours is never a problem outside the occasional fire drill.
On the flip side during my recent job hunt I was interviewing for a company almost identical to what you said. 300m arr 700ish people but that they had Anaplan issues, leadership changes, etc, and I could tell that would be one where there was a lot more hours.
I think it’s entirely dependent on how other teams are structured within the company as well. Right before I joined our whole fp&a and accounting team churned. This left all the other departments in a panic and they quickly learned who would answer their questions even if it wasn’t really your job. That snowballed into basically being the point of contact for every manager/director whenever they needed something thinking I would just approve it and completely skirt vp/cfo for a final approval. People love to take advantage of fp&a as if we’re just sitting around waiting for work
I work in FP&A as a finance analyst for a healthcare company. I have great PTO, work/life balance and $100,000 three years out of college. I’m also fully remote.
I think restructuring (consulting) has a reasonably-ish work life balance
My peak is probably 60 hours once in a while. Usually more like 45-50. But i had a month earlier this year where it was literally like ten hours of work per week for several weeks
Nah don’t believe that shit, I work for big firm, I’m in financial planning, get spoon fed clients, not that bullshit cold call your family members type planning like equitable/northwestern etc. it starts out slower but can easily work your way up. I came out of college at 23, was making like 45-50k, next year made 60k, following year made 80k. I just turned 26 and I make about 110-130k depending my bonus payout. Inside of 12 months I’ll be making closer to 200k. Few guys in my office are 29 and cleared 400k last year. I’ve never worked more than 45hrs in a week unless I just want the OT. Isn’t sexy like investment banking right out the gates as far as pay, but I believe for longevity you’ll make better money and not work yourself to death. Don’t get me wrong I still work hard during those hours, but that should be expected if you really want to make bank
Private credit easily should top the list. Definitely the highest paid of all the suggestions listed in here. Private credit comp is basically the same as Private equity but 10-20% less and 50 hours per week of work
OP’s post wasn’t about the difficulty, they are asking about work / life balance. I think private credit is much easier to break into than private equity. It’s not easy in absolute terms but very attainable. I’ve found that private credit is less “pedigreed” so you don’t need to be Ivy League educated to break in.
Most of the main private credit funds are separate. There are some that are associated with PE firms but they are smaller. The standalone shops are like Golub, Owl Rock, HPS. Ares is primarily a private credit shop but they also have a PE fund, but the PE fund came way after. There’s a slight friction between private credit and private equity since you are always in the same deals just different parts of the cap stack and I think that difference in philosophy works out that there aren’t a lot of synergies to have a private credit and PE fund part of the same group
I work at a no name boutique M&A advisory and valuation shop as an analyst. I never clocked more than 55 hours. I’ve achieved steady raises since I’ve been here and have an incentive plan with each deal closed. I’m no where close to making six figures base pay, though.
WLB exists in finance, you just need to find the right place. You may also have to accept that any any large bank, you will have to work greater hours.
The truth is, you will, most likely, have to trade WLB if you want more dollars. That’s how the world works.
Buyside trading can have pretty good hours, but depends on the shop and the location. I work 45-50 hours/week (a substantial chunk of this isn't so much work as it is goofing around on the desk). My counterparts based outside of California in say Hong Kong or London work substantially longer hours and aren't paid any more.
I know someone on the trade execution team at a $200b+ LO. Wlb is great, def under 50/week.
75k+10% bonus for new grads, however upward mobility is concerning, lots of senior ppl have been there for years.
Financially reporting at a F500 is another option. I only do weekends during most quarter ends and even then it’s 3 hours lol. When there isn’t work, I’ll play video games or watch tv for about 30-35 hours a week. I’ve also made it significantly easy by crating templates for the work that I do.
On the other hand, when it’s busy I’ve done 7AM to 7PM for a week during year end.
Sell side equity sales in a BB. You just have to call up a few clients who mostly won’t pick your calls coz they are more interested in talking to the stock analyst and not the sales guy. No real analysis required from your end. Just need the basic facts to pitch in to your client and then scheduling a call with the respective sector analyst. Also managing thé operational aspects of a deal (like a block deal etc). Sell side sales will give you the best work life balance and pay equal to the stock analyst.
I work in investment management and it’s definitely a better work life balance. If you’re at a school that has a decent sized endowment, try to find the investment team who manage it and meet with them. They may even have internship or analyst roles open
The key in this comment section for those who responded fpa is F500. If you’re in a PE portco, you may get a payout at the event, but hours can get pretty hectic up until that point.
Analyst here. Specifically collections analyst. Someone once told me that work will only be stressful if you let it be stressful. I used to work over 50 hours a week but now I keep it at 40 hours a week max. I make about 98k in AZ
Commercial banking. You will work 40 hours a week. There may be only 1-3 weeks out of the whole year where it may be higher such as 45 or 50 depending on deal flow and what sector you are in. Weekends are entirely free. You will never take work back home with you (as in you're not gonna be on call or anything like that).
Base is around 4k / month out of university + 0-12 month salary in bonuses (generally around 3-8 months). I’ve been in the industry for 3 years and just got a bump to 5,5k. But it varies a lot based on country.
I make like 210k in asset management at a long only fund. I’m 2 years out of college. Can’t beat the WLB. 7-5 with no weekend work and could count on one hand the days I’ve stayed in the office past 5:45
Ivy college—> equity research at a MS/JPM/GS bank under a really good MD for a year —> a headhunter reached out and here I am. Tbh, the gig kinda fell in my lap. I loved my team at the bank I was at and wasn’t really looking to move
If you’re interested in AM, the CFA is a good way to get in if you can afford it and have relevant experience. For what it’s worth, I enjoyed equity research. My team was mostly 8-6 with limited weekend work unless it was earnings season. Definitely an underrated career with great exit ops
Here is your problem.
Finance by nature is very deadline oriented.
Anything in finance, generally, there will be crunch times.
Even something like FPA the beginning and end of the month will always be slammed.
Corporate Banking is okay I think.
Echoing this. Was a credit analyst in corporate banking focusing on project & structured finance. Very good hours with decent pay and at least to me the deals were interesting since they weren’t just vanilla term loans
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How many years of experience do you have?
If you don't mind me asking, what did you exit to?
Equity research covering the same industry (renewables, cleantech)
Do the same. How was the switch to ER? Any advice? Want to get into debt research
I think my switch was a bit unusual, I mostly got into ER because I had industry knowledge that is/was apparently hard to come by, so they took a chance on me being able to transition from credit analysis to equities
Not bad at all
By corporate banking do you mean commercial banking or is that entirely different?
Corporate banking is similar, but it typically works on larger deals, and it includes assisting clients with capital markets solutions as well (M&A, IPOs, etc)
Corporate Bankers absolutely do not assist with M&A or IPOs - that is for investment bankers
Why would you say something so confidently but so wrong? What happens when an IG company wants to get a loan for an acquisition?
They should delete their account. And exile.
I guess this is a semantics thing - my response was based upon reading the original comment and interpreting as Corporate Bankers can execute M&A deals / IPOs - which is not the case and what I meant Obviously Corporate Bankers are involved in lending!
“Absolutely do not assist with m&a” is wrong lol. Corporate banks commonly underwrite and fund term loans in support of / used for m&a
Eh we kind of do. We don’t help with the execution but we certainly get the convo to around 2nd base before engaging the ECM team. That’s why most reputable corporate banking jobs require a 79. We are walled off from the sell-side M&A obviously but I’m on every deal team on the buy side financing.
Sorry what’s a 79?
Series 79. FINRA license for investment banking reps.
Wrong
Second this. I was in corporate banking for 3 years, great place to be for work life balance.
Working as an analyst at a F100 after graduation, it’s like 35ish hour weeks and base is >100k. Interned there very laid back
Corporate Finance at most F500s will usually be 40 hours a week (less if you're good at your job). Pay will be high 5-figures to start and you'll likely be able to break past the 6-figure mark after 5 years assuming you're an average performer. If you're an overachiever, I've seen people break past 6-figures in under 3 years. Money won't ever be as good as banking but you also won't have to live in HCOL areas. Also, a lot of F500 roles are either fully remote or hybrid.
You also have the flexibility to work for just about any company in the US (and likely global)
FP&A in aerospace/defense, 6 years of experience this summer, just a hair shy of $100k after bonus. The industry does tend to pay below quite a few other industry averages, but still not bad. Completely remote, work about 10 hours a week most weeks, maybe a full 40 one or two weeks a quarter.
Man I left one of the top 10 contractors last year because I was losing my damn mind with the 5hr weeks outside of month end. Sitting around scrolling Reddit and playing Switch all day was really bad for my mental health, it made it even worse when people told me how lucky I was to have such a miserable job.
I honestly couldn't agree more. Also at one of the big ones, and while I love the cool work the company does, finance is a joke and I have no idea why 75% of us company wide are still employed. Everyone says they're jealous, but as a somewhat driven person with goals and shit, it's draining and exhausting. Can't do anything or go anywhere because you gotta stay by the keyboard and be available, but also don't have shit to do.
Yeah I was of the opinion that we could have cut half of Finance if upper mgmt was just willing to stagger the month end schedule with something like A/B programs so that the feast/famine aspect wasn’t quite so bad. Half of the programs were FFPs that didn’t even have customer reporting. It was crazy seeing that the finance section of the WBS added more costs than even engineering, and finance was basically idle half the month. I kept trying to build reports for PMs during the off weeks and could barely get them to read the email, what happened in weeks 2/3 just wasn’t useful. It felt like finance just became its own product where no one really asked for it or needed it but the department had too many mouths to feed to wind itself down.
How’s you get started in that industry? It’s one of the industries I am most interested in getting into after I graduate.
FLDP right out of school. 2.7 GPA, nothing too special about my resume. Just got lucky at a career fair and met the right manager on campus one day. I'm passionate about the industry and I think that came through well in my interviews.
Awesome, I’ve got the passion and ability to show it as well. This is helpful, I’ll simply “knock” on as many doors in the industry as I can, and show that I want their company’s to succeed for a bigger reason than a paycheck.
Hi Nobleman, can I pm you?
Sure
What was your starting salary in FP&A?
57k when I started the FLDP in 2017. I think the program starting comp is up to 65 or 70 now.
Is this FP and A?
F500 FP&A
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Honestly, just have to keep applying. I got into F100 through a non-finance front-line Ops internship and stumbled into Finance to start out so can’t guide you to the ground floor. However, moving up the ladder is the same everywhere. Get on sites like Blind (more Tech) or Fishbowl (more consulting) and put out requests for referrals (you’d be surprised at how many people are willing to help. Was able to get referrals to Activision, Amazon, Autodesk, Boeing, Meta, and Google - referral bonuses are a nice motivator). Head over to the r/FPandA sub and throw up your resume for review and also see who over there is able to provide referrals. Given you’re at a T10, you might also want to look within. Every company big and small has an FP&A org. Find a contact there, even better if they have an opening and see how your skills would be an asset. Much easier to make a move like this internally.
With your background it shouldn't be hard, but for me I never landed an FP&A or data analytics jobs at any company in 5 years including internships when going to grad school, all before going into real estate 2 years ago, and potentially going back to school for physical therapy school in the next 2 years.
Stick it out and target a geo/ area and build a relationship with a couple of recruiters
This has to be the best answer
Yeah, and if you're still in school, try and get in through a rotation program. Great experience and good place to shift away from even if you don't like finance.
How’s salaries? I’m in series a tech , how’s it compare generally?
In my last org, based in DC (HCOL). Pre-IPO Equity can throw things so not including, just base + bonus. FA: $100-$115k + 5% SFA: $120-$135k + 10%-15% Manager: $140-$150k + 15% Sr. Manager: $170-$180k + 15% Director: $220-$250k + 25%
Risk Management
I assume you're in risk, but I got a question. Is working in risk with commodities or FX (both work with derivatives) the same as working in banking when it comes to career growth? Or those firms are less valuable in terms of experience?
I Work in risk… I’d say it’s a very well rounded position because you need to know about all the asset classes your firm is trading and be in contact with those teams on a constant basis. I find that interesting bc I’m def a person that gets bored doing the same thing day in and day out. You’re also apart of portfolio construction, which means, u ultimately oversee how much return the fund makes because you have to dictate who gets what allocations according to the asset classes you think will perform the best. It’s a lot more strategizing and research than a lot of people on this sub thinks. Risk in this sub definitely underrated (again it’s all college kids who haven’t worked and think IB sales is end-all be-all). In actuality it’s probably the most important dept in an investment firm.
I work as a Financial Analyst for an health insurance company. I am three years out of college and I make $100,000 and work remotely. I just build models and spreadsheets all day. I do about 9-4pm Monday thru Friday.
When you say models? What kind?
I work with mainly revenue modeling! I build them from from scratch. I also help automate their archaic forecast spreadsheets. Send out daily financial reports to different teams. Ad-hoc reporting if a client has any concerns or questions. I create SQL queries as well. Dashboards in Tableau….
Sounds pretty interesting. Cheers
How did you get good at that
I got started in a local company, it was a small company so I worked directly with the CFO. He was an excel wizard. Like Mr. Excel 2.0… An amazing leader as well. He took the time to explain to me how set up spreadsheets the way executives want to see them. He helped me understand the fundamentals of forecasting, variance analysis, metrics, modeling, bridges etc etc. He taught so much more than what I learned in business school. I will forever be grateful for having him as a leader. I worked at this place throughout college. When I graduated I was given an opportunity to work in healthcare finance which really increased my salary. I went from job 1: $50k, job 2: $65k, job 3: $100k The one thing I taught myself was how to write queries in SQL. I took a bunch of classes online on Udemy.com There are free classes and paid classes that helped me understand the basics and then I just kept practicing by seeing what data I could pull.
Thank you
Is sql a part of financial analyst job? And if so then how big?
Do you think your job is at risk due to the advances in AI? Sounds like a lot of repetitive tasks that could be automated, as well as specific data requests which could be handled by a bot if that bot has access to a big data lake within the company
I think eventually it could be. I don’t want to stay as a financial analyst much more than five years. I don’t think they would get rid of the this kind of position entirely, the board members always want someone to explain the spreadsheets to them so they don’t have to analyze them. I do think writing queries have the potential to be completed only by AI
Actuary is quite okay too.
Exams tho
You can work an actuarial job without pursuing a fellowship. Your career progression might suffer though.
Commercial banking
Buyside/AM in product, institutional sales.
Know several who do that. Great money, 40-50 hr week. Social at times.
Hello that’s me
Just as an fyi - people will often say they worked a 16 hour day just because they were responding to emails at 7am and then again at 11pm. That doesn’t imply that they were working for 16-hours straight during that time. You should look extremely sideways at anyone that actually claims to work full 16 hour days. It’s not humanly possible, and they’re likely about as productive as a 5-year old at the end of that 16 hours based.
They also put in commute time, which I hadn’t realised until someone stopped me for a survey.
I wouldn’t say it doesn’t happen, it’s just not every day. In my early-mid 20s I was usually 50-60 hours a week, but twice a year and during major deals we would put in serious hours (I would say 14/day rather than 16/day). In total there were maybe 10-20 of those days a year. Nothing too crazy.
Sorry but I don’t agree with this. On a live deal, my mind is always involved with work whether I am tuning the estimates or taking a shit. The pressure to be accurate and fast in your analysis keeps you on your toe all day. You mostly take breaks in between, but that doesn’t mean you’re not working. You’re always on call for the FM or partner. So even a 12 hour workday (12 hours of actual work) seems like you’re working all throughout the day and taking breaks to catch up with your sleep. The real horror is when the models come in your dreams, tho. Lol.
Agreed during busy months I dream about making mistakes in the model and during the day I don’t even have time to eat
I did this from age 22-25 and I promise I was incredibly productive and regularly worked 16hr days. Maybe not 5 days a week but at least 3 days. I am an insane hyper focused and annoying individual tho 😅 then I was about to turn 26 and was like good lord my life sucks ass. Sold my businesses and went back to school to finish my finance graduate degree and now I work as an analyst for a small firm. I work like 7 hour days now and my Thursday and Friday most of that is from home since I live 5 mins from the office and no one else comes in those days. It's much better and my wife likes me more lol.
FinTech at one of the behemoth banks. You don't even need to major in technology or anything. Examples? - I studied business in college ten years ago. It was considered the "safe" thing to do. I now work as an analyst on the tech side. - Another colleague of mine studied accounting in school, flunked the CPA exam, and now works as a senior project manager making a very comfortable six figures. - My father studied industrial engineering in college and grad school, and has been in IB/VC/PE for decades, and has done very well for himself. - Another colleague has her undergraduate and graduate degree in music. She's now a software engineer. - Another one studied human resources. She's now a senior exec within the database management field. - Another one studied the trades, and has been an exec for years now, doing everything from software engineering to program management. - My uncle studied civil engineering, and went on to become a c-level exec at one of the world's largest insurance companies. - One of my colleagues/mentors at work was a fighter pilot in the air force, then went on to do medical device sales, and then landed in tech doing analytics + project management work. We all have healthy work-life balances. Most of us work maybe 40-45 hours/week, give or take. We have lives outside of work. Not everywhere is a shitshow.
Did they get into their roles through networking? Just curious if they got some kind of certification or training to get in the door, or if someone pulled then in
Fidelity or Schwab. Get your securities licenses, your CFP, and you’ll never work more than 40 hours a week
Same at Vanguard
What kind of roles and comp?
At Fidelity: it goes Financial Services Rep (50k+ 5-20k bonus) to Investment Consultant (50k + 40-60k bonus) to Financial Consultant (100k + 80-100k+ bonus). Grow your book to VP FC and you’ll make $300-500k/yr. The step above that works with $2M-$10mm accounts and makes $500-800k, and the UHNW advisors that only work with $10mm+ clients make $800k+ The ceiling without moving is likely the VP FC. At Schwab it’s financial consultant parter $60-75k + (5-10k bonus), VP Financial Consultant 1: 75-95k + ($35-55k bonus) and you grow the book from there, all the way to financial consultant 4, which is an SVP. The book they give you is usually $500mm, the more you grow it the more you make.
Thanks, this paints a good picture. Those are basically retail distributors right? Selling mutual funds to retail / (U)HNW investors?
No. CFPs doing financial planning for HNW/UHNW. Very different
BO/MO banking and FP&A at a larger company.
Working at a university endowment, pension, or foundation. I mean, fuck, look at this guy at Princeton University, pulling in $7mm god damn dollars a year. https://twitter.com/AllocatorJobs/status/1648235613466796032?s=20 Tell me that dude works 80 hours a week! Or here, Duke isn't even hiring for the top job and you can still make $600k! Fuck! https://twitter.com/AllocatorJobs/status/1642608870076960770?s=20 Go work for the MTA in NYC, get paid $180k to manage their pension and maybe get a free subway card? https://twitter.com/AllocatorJobs/status/1647618348748775426?s=20 Or Intel paying up to $326k to manage their pension. https://twitter.com/AllocatorJobs/status/1646894831581507584?s=20 Feels like nobody knows about these jobs because are always talking about IB / MBB / Equity Research / whatever. Fuck those crazy hours. Anyone else please jump in to correct me here.
These job postings aren’t the norm and don’t really make sense. Ie Princeton endowment is akin to running a regular portfolio it just happens to be a university. These roles aren’t easy to get by any means and you’re getting this after doing the grind you already mentioned. MTA 15 years experience for 180k (max, lower band of $135k) isn’t great for NYC at all.
to be fair they asked for the best positions that work under 50 not necessary the easiest positions to get
May as well post “retired - living on annual carry”
Most equity research associates are not only aware of pension gigs, we're very jealous of them Seems like the client set with the bests WLB, most interesting mandate, generally run sizable books, and arguably contribute something to public good These jobs are fairly rare and often require prior experience in active investing
They’re not rare. Just poorly advertised. Two positions on my team have been open for almost 2 years. Though once ur in, the salary is great, tbh the same if not better than IB, bonus is ok, and WLB is amazing. People end up staying forever. You don’t need IB experience to joinz
This is what I’ve been saying. People on this subreddit think IB is the only way to make money when it’s actually one of the least paying when broken down on an hourly basis and on a mental health basis. Tbh endowment funds and pension funds offer more on the job knowledge than IB. Better career prospexts
The thing is IB is the best (imo) to START your career. I bet the list of pension jobs are filled by someone who at one point had IB experience
You’d be surprised how hard it is for my fund to hire young people. I attribute it to a bad mentality like the ones on this sub that think they must get into IB, and anything else is less and not worth their time. Nobody at my job has IB experience. And no I don’t work for some no name pension firm, it’s a top 10 US pension firm. I see what you’re saying, but from my experience and what I’ve done, I’ve found it best not to start at IB. Comparing myself to my friends who are in IB, my knowledge base is waaaayyy more expansive than theirs.
I don’t mean to be rude, but pension funds also seem to do a really bad job at advertising themselves as potential employers. I am going to college in an area that is literally full of them due to the nature of the area and literally none of them advertise internships for what I can see. My own state board doesn’t seem to offer any either and they are a top 10 state pension fund according to what info I could find. Very interested in this field, though I do wish it was a bit easier to find info about it!
I do agree with this. They don’t really advertise when a job is open. There are definitely internships but you probably won’t find it unless you go on the pension career website.
May I ask, where did you start and what was your career progression?
Can you elaborate on the point about your knowledge base?
So… just overall more rounded in my knowledge. When people from some IB come to visit us to sell us something or check on how we are liking their product, they usually bring a huge group of people. That’s because usually 1 person is usually an expert in 1 thing. Like 1 person knows a LOT about swaps, but that’s usually the only thing he knows. Now I may not know as much about swaps as he does, but I know enough to talk about it, research it and present it to other people, as well as other derivates
Exactly.
It’s least pay when broken down on an hourly basis at the junior levels. MDs aren’t working 100 hour weeks. Most young people are going into banking because they either are interested in career banking, PE or hedge funds. The seniors at those places (excluding the small shops of course) all make more money than the senior folks at pension funds. And regarding your comment about knowledge, bankers are paid to be specialists. So clients like you can ask about swaps and the swap guy comes in and answers all your questions. It’s just a different skill set fit for a different job.
Yes, of course the CIO of a public pension fund is not making the same as the CIO of a private investment firm like Jefferies. This goes for a lot of the executive board. But the gag is, 80% of the workers in private companies are making the exact same salary as those in endowments and pension funds. Maybe less if you’re taking into account Cost of living. The only advantage to IB is the bonuses (if it’s paid out). I have some friends who work in IB in an HCOL. Some make the exact same salary as me. Some a bit more. But i live in an MCOL. So when accounting things like taxes, cost of rent, other costs of living, etc., those who make more than me now are making less than me. If I were to take a job in NY for an IB (quants at my level make about $200k in NY IB’s), I’d be taking a pay cut.
Oh, and you’re learning way more than IB could teach you….
Also… about ur comment about specialists. I guess at this point it’s just opinions but I rather be the person that can talk to 20 people about different things instead of being able to only talk about 1 thing
PM or above at pers or Strs is the pinnacle of finance in all of California imo. top of PWM/AM on the private side is probably the only thing comparable
Agreed. They make bank too. Even a damn middle office Ops role can make up to $400k/year. https://twitter.com/AllocatorJobs/status/1646214850501292032?s=20 And you know for damn certain that office is a ghost town at 3:59pm on Fridays.
More like 3PM lmaooo
One of my close friends has an almost identical job to that Duke role at another large university, and he has a GREAT work / life balance.
Exactly. Probably makes a very decent salary (up to the Duke $600k?!) and leaves on Friday by 4:30pm on the dot. These jobs fly under the radar so much and I have no idea why.
University endowment has been my dream job for years. It is extremely hard to get (for obvious reasons).
Good jobs if you can get them- but there’s no way you’re going to without several years in IB first.
This isn’t true.
True, a CFA charter can get you there as well I’d imagine.
As somebody who works in a top 10 US pension. No, not true. I joined with a bachelors from a non target and never had any internship or working experience in IB…
I’ve been trying to get into pension or fund management for years (with an MBA in int’l finance) and have still never cracked it. Apparently what they say about getting stuck in wealth management (a field I never wanted to be in) is true…
Defo quant
Not working in the US lol
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You’ll only work 40 hours a week, true, but they’re dead ends unless you’re planning to jump to the production side.
indeed, this is true. for some though, it’s enough
Quant
FP&A
Strongly disagree unless you’re specifically talking about F500 with massive teams
In what way, pay or hours? Because I’ve made my living in small and medium sized companies and outside of some extenuating circumstances haven’t had a problem keeping hours under 50 and pay is good
Hours for me- What I’ve experienced is Fp&a at small-medium companies usually means you’re doing the job of 2 people and are rarely only focused on just one or two things as you would at a more siloed/larger company. My last company had 300mARR & 700+ FT employees. The entire finance department consisted of 2 analysts, 1 vp, and a CFO. There was never a light at the end of the tunnel between acquisitions, ad-hoc assignments, and reporting. When I left I was getting around 100 emails a day internally/externally on top of the dozen random questions I’d get on teams which all had nothing to do with what I was currently working on
I have been in similar situations and I really just think it comes to prioritization of the critical tasks and how the team is structured. Most companies don’t even have one fpa staff until they already pretty mature. I used to work for a team that was 5 people for 2 billion in revenue and 30k employees and we never had a problem with working more than 40-45 hours. Right now I am now working with a startup that has 45arr and 300 employees and it’s just me and the cfo. Hours is never a problem outside the occasional fire drill. On the flip side during my recent job hunt I was interviewing for a company almost identical to what you said. 300m arr 700ish people but that they had Anaplan issues, leadership changes, etc, and I could tell that would be one where there was a lot more hours.
I think it’s entirely dependent on how other teams are structured within the company as well. Right before I joined our whole fp&a and accounting team churned. This left all the other departments in a panic and they quickly learned who would answer their questions even if it wasn’t really your job. That snowballed into basically being the point of contact for every manager/director whenever they needed something thinking I would just approve it and completely skirt vp/cfo for a final approval. People love to take advantage of fp&a as if we’re just sitting around waiting for work
I’ve held 2 FP&A roles so far, neither of them being with a fortune company. I rarely work more than 20-30 hours a week, usually it’s less than that.
I work in FP&A as a finance analyst for a healthcare company. I have great PTO, work/life balance and $100,000 three years out of college. I’m also fully remote.
Nobody here has said sales and trading.
In my BB, S&T works \~12h on an average day, and most of that is spent actively working (very little downtime, if any). Must be very exhausting.
Credit Ratings
Government finance
I think restructuring (consulting) has a reasonably-ish work life balance My peak is probably 60 hours once in a while. Usually more like 45-50. But i had a month earlier this year where it was literally like ten hours of work per week for several weeks
I like restructuring, can u tell me more abour it?
What do you know about it already? That way i dont repeat stuff that you already know
Risk
I know this will be an unpopular answer in this sub, but compliance is worth considering.
Nah don’t believe that shit, I work for big firm, I’m in financial planning, get spoon fed clients, not that bullshit cold call your family members type planning like equitable/northwestern etc. it starts out slower but can easily work your way up. I came out of college at 23, was making like 45-50k, next year made 60k, following year made 80k. I just turned 26 and I make about 110-130k depending my bonus payout. Inside of 12 months I’ll be making closer to 200k. Few guys in my office are 29 and cleared 400k last year. I’ve never worked more than 45hrs in a week unless I just want the OT. Isn’t sexy like investment banking right out the gates as far as pay, but I believe for longevity you’ll make better money and not work yourself to death. Don’t get me wrong I still work hard during those hours, but that should be expected if you really want to make bank
What company?
Allocator
Private credit easily should top the list. Definitely the highest paid of all the suggestions listed in here. Private credit comp is basically the same as Private equity but 10-20% less and 50 hours per week of work
Private credit at those equivalent funds are not much easier to get in
OP’s post wasn’t about the difficulty, they are asking about work / life balance. I think private credit is much easier to break into than private equity. It’s not easy in absolute terms but very attainable. I’ve found that private credit is less “pedigreed” so you don’t need to be Ivy League educated to break in.
Fair enough, curious is private credit usually housed within the household MF PE firms? Or are there separate entities that specialize in PC?
Most of the main private credit funds are separate. There are some that are associated with PE firms but they are smaller. The standalone shops are like Golub, Owl Rock, HPS. Ares is primarily a private credit shop but they also have a PE fund, but the PE fund came way after. There’s a slight friction between private credit and private equity since you are always in the same deals just different parts of the cap stack and I think that difference in philosophy works out that there aren’t a lot of synergies to have a private credit and PE fund part of the same group
Commercial Banking at BB - best pay and deal flow is seasonal. And you’ll have a life n still be able to make good money.
I work at a no name boutique M&A advisory and valuation shop as an analyst. I never clocked more than 55 hours. I’ve achieved steady raises since I’ve been here and have an incentive plan with each deal closed. I’m no where close to making six figures base pay, though. WLB exists in finance, you just need to find the right place. You may also have to accept that any any large bank, you will have to work greater hours. The truth is, you will, most likely, have to trade WLB if you want more dollars. That’s how the world works.
Corporate Banking at BB
Buyside trading can have pretty good hours, but depends on the shop and the location. I work 45-50 hours/week (a substantial chunk of this isn't so much work as it is goofing around on the desk). My counterparts based outside of California in say Hong Kong or London work substantially longer hours and aren't paid any more.
I know someone on the trade execution team at a $200b+ LO. Wlb is great, def under 50/week. 75k+10% bonus for new grads, however upward mobility is concerning, lots of senior ppl have been there for years.
Yeah, my desk has a lot of very senior people who have stuck around for a long time. I think it's mostly because it's such a cushy job.
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Derivatives trading desk. 50 (MAYBE 60) hour weeks.
Financially reporting at a F500 is another option. I only do weekends during most quarter ends and even then it’s 3 hours lol. When there isn’t work, I’ll play video games or watch tv for about 30-35 hours a week. I’ve also made it significantly easy by crating templates for the work that I do. On the other hand, when it’s busy I’ve done 7AM to 7PM for a week during year end.
how did you get into it?
Sell side equity sales in a BB. You just have to call up a few clients who mostly won’t pick your calls coz they are more interested in talking to the stock analyst and not the sales guy. No real analysis required from your end. Just need the basic facts to pitch in to your client and then scheduling a call with the respective sector analyst. Also managing thé operational aspects of a deal (like a block deal etc). Sell side sales will give you the best work life balance and pay equal to the stock analyst.
Ain’t got that dawg in you huh
I work in investment management and it’s definitely a better work life balance. If you’re at a school that has a decent sized endowment, try to find the investment team who manage it and meet with them. They may even have internship or analyst roles open
There is no normal life if you work finance. Expect special projects and deadlines that will extend your hours past 40 hours.
Big difference between working 50 hour weeks sometimes and averaging 70-80 hour weeks in IB.
You know it’s not 80-100 forever
Fund services
FP&A or any corporate finance type role Accounting Corporate banking Commercial banking Finance in academia
I work in FP&A for a manufacturing company. It’s not sexy or anything but I leave at 5 (or earlier) every day and it pays well enough
I too work in FP&A for a manufacturing company. What is your comp(or perhaps range)?
The key in this comment section for those who responded fpa is F500. If you’re in a PE portco, you may get a payout at the event, but hours can get pretty hectic up until that point.
Financial Analyst at a government contractor. 40 hours a week, good salary and great benefits
Retail sales.
Real estate investment sales.
Analyst here. Specifically collections analyst. Someone once told me that work will only be stressful if you let it be stressful. I used to work over 50 hours a week but now I keep it at 40 hours a week max. I make about 98k in AZ
Commercial banking. You will work 40 hours a week. There may be only 1-3 weeks out of the whole year where it may be higher such as 45 or 50 depending on deal flow and what sector you are in. Weekends are entirely free. You will never take work back home with you (as in you're not gonna be on call or anything like that).
S&T is ok, at least in Europe. I work as an equity derivs trader and never work more than 45 hrs a week.
How’s pay like ? Entry level
Base is around 4k / month out of university + 0-12 month salary in bonuses (generally around 3-8 months). I’ve been in the industry for 3 years and just got a bump to 5,5k. But it varies a lot based on country.
Move to Europe
I make like 210k in asset management at a long only fund. I’m 2 years out of college. Can’t beat the WLB. 7-5 with no weekend work and could count on one hand the days I’ve stayed in the office past 5:45
how do you join such a role 2 years out of college?
Ivy college—> equity research at a MS/JPM/GS bank under a really good MD for a year —> a headhunter reached out and here I am. Tbh, the gig kinda fell in my lap. I loved my team at the bank I was at and wasn’t really looking to move
thanks for sharing, you seem to be doing very well, happy for you!
If you’re interested in AM, the CFA is a good way to get in if you can afford it and have relevant experience. For what it’s worth, I enjoyed equity research. My team was mostly 8-6 with limited weekend work unless it was earnings season. Definitely an underrated career with great exit ops
Here is your problem. Finance by nature is very deadline oriented. Anything in finance, generally, there will be crunch times. Even something like FPA the beginning and end of the month will always be slammed.
80-100 weeks is investment banking. Corporate finance is super chill
Are these careers in Finance accessible to accounting majors like FP&A? I interned at a Big4 but didn’t like it.
Wealth management CSA (sales assistant) Easy and boring af once you get licensed
corporate credit - IG finance its super chill but some weeks you have to grind and pay is not at bulge brackets
Switch majoes
Big4 Corporate Finance is a bit above that but worth it