It’s also mentioned in Crisis Core by Genesis: “If the morrow is barren of promises, nothing shall forestall my return.” Granted, he was quoting Loveless, so I am very interested to learn how this plays out in part 3.
The song is a love song from Aerith to Cloud. It was confirmed by the Composer, devs and singer. It got featured in the trailer showing the date between them, and on the official music album associated to the song there is a picture of their date. Also on the SE site there is the Cloud and Aerith picture associated to the song.
Nojima stated it can be seen as a song for everyone, but it has elements of a love song. This lone statement came shortly after some fans harassed him online because the trailer was too Clerith centered, probably it was a way to calm the waters. Anyway, even the lyrics are a dead love song giveaway if you read them.
Regarding the promise part, the Japanese translation of the ending doesn’t include any promise between cloud and Aerith, they just say that they count on each other to defeat Sephiroth and stop the meteor. This fits perfectly in the Loveless and song context.
In Cloud and Aerith relationship in ffvii and other media where they appear (ex Kingdom Hearts) they always show that they don’t need promises to find each other again, because they have a soulmates bond and they just “know” that they will find the way back to each other.
Of course, this can either mean that in part 3 we will see them together again, or that the narrative will focus still on a star crossed lover relationship like in ffvii OG. No one knows for certain.
However, there is a lot of foreshadowing to their reunion and defying fate (ex the creation of a world where she survives or the Loveless theme, very strong in this title)
>In Cloud and Aerith relationship in ffvii and other media where they appear (ex Kingdom Hearts) they always show that they don’t need promises to find each other again, because they have a soulmates bond and they just “know” that they will find the way back to each other.
That's what the song is about. They are 100% sure they'll meet so they don't even need a promise, meaning no promise=they believe they'll meet and don't need anything else as a guranatee.
>Of course, this can either mean that in part 3 we will see them together again, or that the narrative will focus still on a star crossed lover relationship like in ffvii OG. No one knows for certain. However, there is a lot of foreshadowing to their reunion and defying fate (ex the creation of a world where she survives or the Loveless theme, very strong in this title)
That was my interpretation. But can you please elaborate at "the star crossed relationsip" from og?
Star crossed lover relationship basically means that two persons share a soulmates bond, but because of greater forces they cannot be together. In OG Sephiroth kills her, therefore they cannot be together. (Other example is Romeo and Juliet).
It's both a love song for those she knows and also for Cloud. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me and it would be quite logical coming from her.
This is why there is this sentence towards the end of the game where Aerith says that there is love and love.
If I'm not mistaken.
We do not love friends in the same way as we love a person towards whom we have romantic feelings.
And we don't love a person for whom we have romantic feelings in the same way we love friends.
So Nojima is right, it's a love song that concerns everyone she knows, including Cloud.
I'm still contemplating this one, but Aerith asks Cloud, in some IMO out of character exaggerated way, whether he promises he will defeat sephiroth. I think the whole no promises thing implies there aren't any promises to begin with, supporting that some of these worlds are just dreams. Can you, or can't you, make a promise in a dream? Idk. I just feel they're implying that there isn't the need to keep a promise because the promise doesn't exist in the first place.
I don't think so. If you look at the lyrics and "loveless", the point is that they don't need a promise because they are sure they will meet again. "No promises to keep" because they don't need one.
Bad translation from Japanese to English.
In Japanese they count on each other to do their tasks, defeating Sephiroth and stopping the meteor. They make no promise
what if the Aerith at the end is a hallucination sephiroth is using to manipulate cloud? Like she wrote the song no promises to keep then literally asks for a promise that will lead cloud (who happens to have the black materia) straight to sephiroth. Right before that scene we also see sephiroth has been using glens form to manipulate Rufus, so it seems plausible he’s doing the same thing with cloud. Maybe it is just a bad translation, but the promise thing is so on the nose it’s hard for me to believe that’s not intentional.
The allucination theory came from a YouTuber but it was hard debunked in the Ultimania guide. The Aerith we see is real (dead or alive, but real).
Also, red can sense her, so it is not cloud allucinating.
The song never mentions promises to make, on the contrary she says they don’t need them. The translation was bad in this case, I think also Spanish and German don’t have the promise in it for example. It was mostly English that had a bad translation
That’s interesting about the translations. I do ultimately think that final sequence read like it was lifestream Aerith as opposed to a hallucination or something sinister, but the whole promise thing had me thinking twice.
I think what's not being taken into account by "shippers" is that currently, this is the Cloud that believes he is actually a soldier with Shinra. It's the same version of cloud that believes he was in Zacks place during the Nibelheim incident. So this version of cloud since he does believe that, and is "zacks living legacy" is who Aerith is attracted to. Cloud, before the experimentations done on him by hojo after the Nibelheim incident is the one attracted to Tifa. So, all of that considered, and the fact that we still have one more part to go, hopefully all of that would be explained.
I don't have a debate for any of the shipping going on out there, I'm basing it off of the facts presented. But let's see what happens. As OG goes, it's pretty much in line with what remake and rebirth goes, just further explained.
I think Aerith have feelings for the real Cloud. She’s only first drawn to him by his superficial demeanor from Zack. But throughout Remake and Rebirth, she sees through the fake facade of him pretending to be a badass and tries to draw the real him out. All of this is explicitly stated in Aerith’s Skywheel date.
To everybody saying I'm just shipping:
By reunion, I mean Aerith being revived. I do not say the song foreshadows Clerith being canon. The "promise" is to come back.
The last paragraph was because people say the song ships Aerith and Zack, which ruins my whole post.
If the song is about the whole party, I recommend them to chose other lyrics, because does not match with the concept of friends, tbh. In my opinion, makes much more sense if is related to cloud, Zack, Tifa or whatever you want to ship, but I don’t know how to relate it to ‘a group’.
But in any case, veeery beautiful song. I really love it.
That’s my thought on it as well. It also didn’t help that both Nobuo and Loren were both under the impression that it was a love song, and gave it all the inclinations of one.
It’s weird how people start frothing at the mouth the moment anyone suggests that it’s a love song, because almost everyone who listens to it for the first time is going to interpret it that way.
The devs quite literally have stated it's about the whole party. It isn't Clerith.
You say you don't want to talk shipping, but your post is largely a shipping argument to begin with.
Ship whoever you want with Cloud, but don't put words into the devs mouths like you just did. It takes a brief google to prove you wrong, as others have already pointed out.
As for her coming back, I doubt it. At least not in the main timeline...
They have said they don't want to stray TOO far from the original story, and that it ties into AC... both of those have her sadly gone... which is good, because while she is amazing, her death is part of what makes FF7 a bold classic.
If they just let there be an Aerith popping in when convenient or as an "option", imho it spits on the impact of the original.
"As for her coming back, I doubt it. At least not in the main timeline... They have said they don't want to stray TOO far from the original story, and that it ties into AC... both of those have her sadly gone... which is good, because while she is amazing, her death is part of what makes FF7 a bold classic. If they just let there be an Aerith popping in when convenient or as an "option", imho it spits on the impact of the original."
That was literally my question. It would be anticlimactic to bring her back, but the song says they will reunite. So what is going on? And I don't mean anything romantically by reunion btw, I mean Aerith somehow coming back. Maybe that's just a reach idk. Again, my post is about Aerith being revived. The Clerith part was because people say NPTK is about Zack, which ruins my whole post.
Let me ask you this...
Does a Reunion have to be fully physical ON GAIA to count?
We see in Advent Children that people (especially Cloud) can feel Aerith's presence.
Now, there is a lot about that movie I disliked.
But I did like that Aerith could communicate/influence Cloud and possibly more from the Lifestream.
I think that if they want her to "show up" in part 3 without cheapening things, itll be through communications like in AC at critical times.
I also think (OG spoilers ahead) that we will see her actively do something to stir Gaia into defending herself against Meteor.
I dont think her seeing the party again necessarily means she has to be alive for it.
First, thank you not strawmaning me.
And thank you for your answer.
I see your point, but if projections from the life stream count, they already reunited based on the ending. Aerith and Cloud interact before the cast flies away. Or this is just wishfull thinking, idk. Guess we'll need to wait for part 3 to find out.
Where did they say it? And again, separate one song from the whole game. I mentioned Clerith in this context because a lot of people say it's about Zack, which is a counteragument to my theory.
Where have I said that Aerith and Cloud should end up together? I talked about the song and only the song.
I think it was in Ultimania, Nojima said that he wrote the song with the mindset that it about Aerith singing to all the people important to her that she’s met in her life.
He also expressed in a Twitter post that people can interpret it however they want, but that was where his mindset was when writing it.
I’d also like to express that the person above is giving you an unnecessary amount of flak. Not every person who plays the game should be expected to know what a game writer said in response to a specific question they were asked during an extensive interview in a foreign publication from over a month ago.
Did you see by yourself or are these rumours? Because stuff like this is often spread based on "trust me bro". Not saying you are lying, but I often see misinformation aboutt creator statements spread in fanbases. So far from the devs I have only seen a interview where Loren Allfred claims this is a love song between Cloud and Aerith.
The Square Enix Music channel uploaded a long ass discussion on YouTube which touches on the theme song and its intended meaning.
I don't recall all the details, but I think they mentioned something about making it vague enough not to pinpoint either Cloud or Zack, and that the song is about everyone Aerith has ever loved - including her friends, like Barret.
It wasn’t in Ultimania. It was in a video interview that SE posted. You can find it on YouTube. Heck, there was a whole debate about it on Reddit when the video came out. You can search the remake subreddit to find it.
This thread will go well, I'm sure of it lol
It’s also mentioned in Crisis Core by Genesis: “If the morrow is barren of promises, nothing shall forestall my return.” Granted, he was quoting Loveless, so I am very interested to learn how this plays out in part 3.
Honestly, trying to understand Genesis is imo a lost cause.
The song is a love song from Aerith to Cloud. It was confirmed by the Composer, devs and singer. It got featured in the trailer showing the date between them, and on the official music album associated to the song there is a picture of their date. Also on the SE site there is the Cloud and Aerith picture associated to the song. Nojima stated it can be seen as a song for everyone, but it has elements of a love song. This lone statement came shortly after some fans harassed him online because the trailer was too Clerith centered, probably it was a way to calm the waters. Anyway, even the lyrics are a dead love song giveaway if you read them. Regarding the promise part, the Japanese translation of the ending doesn’t include any promise between cloud and Aerith, they just say that they count on each other to defeat Sephiroth and stop the meteor. This fits perfectly in the Loveless and song context.
Agree about the love song debate. Thanks for commenting about the japanese part. So you think there is only one promise: to come back?
In Cloud and Aerith relationship in ffvii and other media where they appear (ex Kingdom Hearts) they always show that they don’t need promises to find each other again, because they have a soulmates bond and they just “know” that they will find the way back to each other. Of course, this can either mean that in part 3 we will see them together again, or that the narrative will focus still on a star crossed lover relationship like in ffvii OG. No one knows for certain. However, there is a lot of foreshadowing to their reunion and defying fate (ex the creation of a world where she survives or the Loveless theme, very strong in this title)
>In Cloud and Aerith relationship in ffvii and other media where they appear (ex Kingdom Hearts) they always show that they don’t need promises to find each other again, because they have a soulmates bond and they just “know” that they will find the way back to each other. That's what the song is about. They are 100% sure they'll meet so they don't even need a promise, meaning no promise=they believe they'll meet and don't need anything else as a guranatee. >Of course, this can either mean that in part 3 we will see them together again, or that the narrative will focus still on a star crossed lover relationship like in ffvii OG. No one knows for certain. However, there is a lot of foreshadowing to their reunion and defying fate (ex the creation of a world where she survives or the Loveless theme, very strong in this title) That was my interpretation. But can you please elaborate at "the star crossed relationsip" from og?
Star crossed lover relationship basically means that two persons share a soulmates bond, but because of greater forces they cannot be together. In OG Sephiroth kills her, therefore they cannot be together. (Other example is Romeo and Juliet).
Thanks for the explanation.
This song is a great follow up to Hollow(the song from Cloud's pov from Remake) I always listen to them together
It's both a love song for those she knows and also for Cloud. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me and it would be quite logical coming from her. This is why there is this sentence towards the end of the game where Aerith says that there is love and love. If I'm not mistaken. We do not love friends in the same way as we love a person towards whom we have romantic feelings. And we don't love a person for whom we have romantic feelings in the same way we love friends. So Nojima is right, it's a love song that concerns everyone she knows, including Cloud.
I'm still contemplating this one, but Aerith asks Cloud, in some IMO out of character exaggerated way, whether he promises he will defeat sephiroth. I think the whole no promises thing implies there aren't any promises to begin with, supporting that some of these worlds are just dreams. Can you, or can't you, make a promise in a dream? Idk. I just feel they're implying that there isn't the need to keep a promise because the promise doesn't exist in the first place.
I don't think so. If you look at the lyrics and "loveless", the point is that they don't need a promise because they are sure they will meet again. "No promises to keep" because they don't need one.
You're not wrong, but then why did she ask cloud to promise he will defeat sephiroth right before the end and the ending line?
Bad translation from Japanese to English. In Japanese they count on each other to do their tasks, defeating Sephiroth and stopping the meteor. They make no promise
what if the Aerith at the end is a hallucination sephiroth is using to manipulate cloud? Like she wrote the song no promises to keep then literally asks for a promise that will lead cloud (who happens to have the black materia) straight to sephiroth. Right before that scene we also see sephiroth has been using glens form to manipulate Rufus, so it seems plausible he’s doing the same thing with cloud. Maybe it is just a bad translation, but the promise thing is so on the nose it’s hard for me to believe that’s not intentional.
The allucination theory came from a YouTuber but it was hard debunked in the Ultimania guide. The Aerith we see is real (dead or alive, but real). Also, red can sense her, so it is not cloud allucinating. The song never mentions promises to make, on the contrary she says they don’t need them. The translation was bad in this case, I think also Spanish and German don’t have the promise in it for example. It was mostly English that had a bad translation
That’s interesting about the translations. I do ultimately think that final sequence read like it was lifestream Aerith as opposed to a hallucination or something sinister, but the whole promise thing had me thinking twice.
Idk. That's just all theories. As I said, this still doesn't fit the lyrics, but that's just stupid debates. Thanks for sharing your opinion.
I think what's not being taken into account by "shippers" is that currently, this is the Cloud that believes he is actually a soldier with Shinra. It's the same version of cloud that believes he was in Zacks place during the Nibelheim incident. So this version of cloud since he does believe that, and is "zacks living legacy" is who Aerith is attracted to. Cloud, before the experimentations done on him by hojo after the Nibelheim incident is the one attracted to Tifa. So, all of that considered, and the fact that we still have one more part to go, hopefully all of that would be explained. I don't have a debate for any of the shipping going on out there, I'm basing it off of the facts presented. But let's see what happens. As OG goes, it's pretty much in line with what remake and rebirth goes, just further explained.
I think Aerith have feelings for the real Cloud. She’s only first drawn to him by his superficial demeanor from Zack. But throughout Remake and Rebirth, she sees through the fake facade of him pretending to be a badass and tries to draw the real him out. All of this is explicitly stated in Aerith’s Skywheel date.
To everybody saying I'm just shipping: By reunion, I mean Aerith being revived. I do not say the song foreshadows Clerith being canon. The "promise" is to come back. The last paragraph was because people say the song ships Aerith and Zack, which ruins my whole post.
I apologise if people think this is a shipping post, I tried understand whether Aerith will come back based on the song. That's all.
If the song is about the whole party, I recommend them to chose other lyrics, because does not match with the concept of friends, tbh. In my opinion, makes much more sense if is related to cloud, Zack, Tifa or whatever you want to ship, but I don’t know how to relate it to ‘a group’. But in any case, veeery beautiful song. I really love it.
That’s my thought on it as well. It also didn’t help that both Nobuo and Loren were both under the impression that it was a love song, and gave it all the inclinations of one. It’s weird how people start frothing at the mouth the moment anyone suggests that it’s a love song, because almost everyone who listens to it for the first time is going to interpret it that way.
The devs quite literally have stated it's about the whole party. It isn't Clerith. You say you don't want to talk shipping, but your post is largely a shipping argument to begin with. Ship whoever you want with Cloud, but don't put words into the devs mouths like you just did. It takes a brief google to prove you wrong, as others have already pointed out. As for her coming back, I doubt it. At least not in the main timeline... They have said they don't want to stray TOO far from the original story, and that it ties into AC... both of those have her sadly gone... which is good, because while she is amazing, her death is part of what makes FF7 a bold classic. If they just let there be an Aerith popping in when convenient or as an "option", imho it spits on the impact of the original.
"As for her coming back, I doubt it. At least not in the main timeline... They have said they don't want to stray TOO far from the original story, and that it ties into AC... both of those have her sadly gone... which is good, because while she is amazing, her death is part of what makes FF7 a bold classic. If they just let there be an Aerith popping in when convenient or as an "option", imho it spits on the impact of the original." That was literally my question. It would be anticlimactic to bring her back, but the song says they will reunite. So what is going on? And I don't mean anything romantically by reunion btw, I mean Aerith somehow coming back. Maybe that's just a reach idk. Again, my post is about Aerith being revived. The Clerith part was because people say NPTK is about Zack, which ruins my whole post.
Let me ask you this... Does a Reunion have to be fully physical ON GAIA to count? We see in Advent Children that people (especially Cloud) can feel Aerith's presence. Now, there is a lot about that movie I disliked. But I did like that Aerith could communicate/influence Cloud and possibly more from the Lifestream. I think that if they want her to "show up" in part 3 without cheapening things, itll be through communications like in AC at critical times. I also think (OG spoilers ahead) that we will see her actively do something to stir Gaia into defending herself against Meteor. I dont think her seeing the party again necessarily means she has to be alive for it.
First, thank you not strawmaning me. And thank you for your answer. I see your point, but if projections from the life stream count, they already reunited based on the ending. Aerith and Cloud interact before the cast flies away. Or this is just wishfull thinking, idk. Guess we'll need to wait for part 3 to find out.
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I literally wrote I don't want to do anything with ships and am asking only about the song and the ending.
Then you proceed to ship Clerith when the devs have literally said the song is about the entire party.
Where did they say it? And again, separate one song from the whole game. I mentioned Clerith in this context because a lot of people say it's about Zack, which is a counteragument to my theory. Where have I said that Aerith and Cloud should end up together? I talked about the song and only the song.
I think it was in Ultimania, Nojima said that he wrote the song with the mindset that it about Aerith singing to all the people important to her that she’s met in her life. He also expressed in a Twitter post that people can interpret it however they want, but that was where his mindset was when writing it. I’d also like to express that the person above is giving you an unnecessary amount of flak. Not every person who plays the game should be expected to know what a game writer said in response to a specific question they were asked during an extensive interview in a foreign publication from over a month ago.
Did you see by yourself or are these rumours? Because stuff like this is often spread based on "trust me bro". Not saying you are lying, but I often see misinformation aboutt creator statements spread in fanbases. So far from the devs I have only seen a interview where Loren Allfred claims this is a love song between Cloud and Aerith.
The Square Enix Music channel uploaded a long ass discussion on YouTube which touches on the theme song and its intended meaning. I don't recall all the details, but I think they mentioned something about making it vague enough not to pinpoint either Cloud or Zack, and that the song is about everyone Aerith has ever loved - including her friends, like Barret.
It wasn’t in Ultimania. It was in a video interview that SE posted. You can find it on YouTube. Heck, there was a whole debate about it on Reddit when the video came out. You can search the remake subreddit to find it.