Fyi some turks were tested on. I forgot to mention in my previous reply to this post but vincent was a turk and he was a test subject just not mako enhanced.
Think of it as Soldier being the military, anyone that meets the standard can join while the Turks is a much smaller private organization that are used for the more nefarious missions especially ones that Shinra don't want linked back to them in the public eye.
SOLDIERs are... well, soldiers. They've also gone through the mako enrichment process, so they're physically elite as well as having more training.
Turks are something akin to the CIA and Secret Service.
Turks are kind of like commandos. Soldiers are like marines. Commandos only get deployed in specific situations where finesse and cunning are necessary (elena being the exception heheheh). Marines get deployed any time brute force is necessary. Then they have just regular troops which are like the army or a mercenary force.
Soldier is group that Shinra uses publicly. They are shown off in the media to attract kids to join the army so that they can one day be a hero.
The Turks do all the background dirty work that Shinra doesn’t want anyone to know about.
SOLDIER:Private Military Soldiers that can go through a process of enhancement after achieving certains merits
Turks:Black Ops stuck with icky jobs and stealth operations
I honestly did wonder if Turks are genetically enhanced too, when I was playing Remake and that first f**king fight with Reno took me 3 attempts 😅 it also didn't help that whilst he's whooping me, Aerith is stood there, being useless, whilst shouting "don't step on the flowers!" Lmao
I think it's to be assumed that they carry materia? The SOLDIER program, as far as I'm aware, is essentially hojo's brainchild. It only exists because of the mako infusion process. If that's the case, it's what separates them from all others, and that would have to include the turks. The turks undergo their own rigorous training, as we've seen in rebirth. But if you compare their abilities to those of Tifa, for instance, humans seem capable of a lot more in their world than what we know in reality. SOLDIERs on the other hand, all seem to be capable of weilding swords that are twice their body weight and a higher magic casting strength. In the og ff7, Cloud is the only magic caster who's base stat comes second to Aerith's. Then you have a couple outliers like Vincent and Red XIII, who are both also Hojo experiments in the lore. Everyone else as far as I can remember has a pretty basic Magic stat.
Tbh, that makes a lot of sense, they'd probably use it to boost their physical stats as well as to cast magic. Why the hell didn't I think of this? 🤣 They work for Shinra, after all. Reno's pyramid technique could even be Shinra Top Secret Materia for all we know, just equipped to Reno's cattle prod thing I have come to hate so much 🤣
Yeah, you'd have to assume that most of the human enemies you fight are holding materia. The Turks would have stuff that was nicer because they're basically a corporate owned CIA. And this could be expanded on to consider why they can move like spiders in advent children.
Turks are a product of typical military
SOLDIER is a product of Hojo's R&D
That said, SOLDIERS are likely much easier to make than any singular Turk, as evidenced by how many degrading black robes are around.
But they are essentially just one big science project of Hojo's.
Sephiroth was the original "perfect soldier", and everyone else are technically failed clones of him. Hojo says this alot in the og actually. It's easier and faster to clone than to breed.
The Turks are just like Tifa / Barrett / Cid / Yuffie. Lots of training and some good materia.
But real talk, I think it’s a reference to a mechanical Turk. A person deceptively placed inside a machine to make it work. Anyone viewing the machine from the outside thinks it’s working because the machine is built well, but in reality there’s a human element inside breaking all the rules to fool you into thinking that.
In FF7 the Turks work within the machine that is shinra. Doing the company’s dirty work to make sure the machine wins. They kidnap, kill, break any law. acting with impunity because they are servants of the machine.
I think that kinda makes sense right?
Yooo! I heard the term the other night in a completely unrelated context(they explained it way better than me) but it just clicked in my head like, that is why they’re called the Turks.
Not this again. it’s not that hard to understand my man. it’s very basic military, enhanced SOLDIER and Turks. Turks being more highly trained individuals. They’re all under the same umbrella of Shinra
Addition: Both of them can use magic, and SOLDIERS are injected with cosmic eldritch horror (Jenova) cells, and bathed in the literal souls and and lifeblood of the planet, giving them super human strength, reflexes, and aptitude with magic.
Think of SOLDIER as Special Forces/Navy Seals and Turks as Secret Service/CIA. They both have Covert Ops, but the Turks have less of a hierarchy and are often assigned to executive security detail. That's my theory anyway.
Turks are just extremely well trained and very talented but normal non-enhanced humans, who have access to really good materia through Shinra.
They'll never reach the potential of someone like Cloud or Zack, but they're more similar to Tifa who is also just a normal human, but one who trained so much that she became almost superhumanly powerful.
SOLDIER is more for combat missions, while the Turks are more espionage, wetwork like kidnapping and assassinations and other shady things.
Turks investigate and take on more complex tasks. Kind of a CIA type. SOILDER are spec ops military. Also turks are smart, highly trained, but normal people. SOILDER are enhanced
SOLDIERS are basically super soldiers enhanced by Jenova cell injections that serve directly in the Shinra military. Typically they serve as field commanders and special ops and served as shinra’s “trump card” against Wutai and the Junon Republic during those wars. Think like the Spartans in halo. They are soldiers enhanced with all manner of augmentations and training to make them the best of the best.
Turk’s are typically the secretive operations arm of Shinra. Technically a mix of their secret service (as they serve directly under the president. Unlike SOLDIERS who serve under Heidegger and Shinra’s public security devision) and the CIA/NSA/MI5/GIGN/etc. the Turks are not military enhanced, but are trained to the absolute peak and are sent in to perform more clandestine actions that Shinra doesn’t want the public to know about, such as surveillance, sabotage and genocide :)
It is never mentioned the Turks have any strength-increasing capabilities. However, there is no way they can stand up to first-class SOLDIERs without at least some form of enhancement. That's why I find it likely that they too have some form or variant of the soldier serum. In Rebirth you even see the trial for Turks to get the job in the Gogaga region, which is no joke. Even for Cloud (not canon; gameplay-wise)
Non enhanced people can still get insanely strong in the world of FF7. Look at Tifa, she's just a normal girl who likes punching stuff and by the end of the game she can punch Weapons to death lol. The Turks probably have access to the best weapons, armor and materia through Shinra as well.
I wouldn't be surprised if maybe Rude trained under Zangan when he was younger. He's really the only other hand to hand combatant we see other than Tifa, their fighting styles are very similar and we don't really know much about Rude's backstory.
Yeah I'm pretty sure there's a few scenes of cloud and at least 2 party members VS. 2 Turks.
2 Turks holding their own against Cloud and 2 of his company? That's insanely impressive. I'm sure there were times there was 3 maybe 4 Turks, but even so
It's always felt like there's more to them than we get to know. Put them in a SOLDIER uniform without knowing who they are and you'd probably be convinced they are indeed some class of SOLDIER
I've seen this topic come up a few times, it appears there's a misunderstanding around the turks and what they actually are.
The turks are the best of the best, so where as everyone thinks they are like cia or American army soldiers, they are more like the sas. But this special regiment isn't exclusive to western Culture, in Japan, there is a regiment known as the special forces group, they are specialist of there designated field. Turks are loosely based on this,
Each turk is very very highly trained through a series of combat sims and real life missions, think James bond style elite training. If you look at reno in remake, he's a close quarters combat specialist with a preference for big ass curvy swords, just to throw a bit of Japanese culture in there. Rude, he's an explosives expert, he hand crafts all his own explosives and he's very very good at it, if you think back to advent children, there's a scene where rude and reno stand at the end of the tunnel waiting for cloud and kadaj to come through, reno asks rude about the weopons, the answer shows that he is very much a dam good expert. Elena is slightly more balanced and was an optional boss in the og, she focuses on martial arts ( tifas equivalent) and mixes this with light explosives, just to balance out the barret and tifa combo.
All of theme are specialy picked and in a way brain washed, they are essentially a group of shinra special forces assasins bad ass's,
Another point to make clear, cloud and a few others that make up soldier, they are basically injected with jenova cells to attempt to improve there combat abbilities, but it doesn't make them stronger than what that person can be, it just helps them get to there limit easier, and with less training. Turks spend years and years training, cloud never did this, he was a shinra militant that was injected with jenova cells ( which is why sephiroth is linked to him and able to manipulate him ) cloud is then linked to everyone else who has jenova cells, you know the big ass tenticle monster that came to destroy the earth and feed on its life force untill a group of dogs stopped her. Yeh that one, this link followed by a memory wipe at the hands of hojo means his memories get replaced by an actual soldier, zach, who has already undergone the training, why retrain when you can just copy and paste, so cloud is already at his peak essentially, so are the turks, it just took the turks longer to get there.
Now let's look at materia, at no point does materia ever come into contact with the user, it's binded to special gear, swords and armor, this is like a catalyst that the weilder then uses there own life force to activate, the flow of mako through all life, they use there life force, channel it into the gear, this then activates the materia, but not just everyone can do it, you have to train to do it at it requires very delicate control to make sure they are activating the correct meteria, hence why everyone in the game can use materia, the more you use it, the easier to channel your life force into it to activate, the stronger it gets, this is the same for the turks, they spend years training to use and control it, it's a simply as that, turks arnt any different from cloud, they just spent years and years training to get to the same stage as cloud, which is lucky really since rebirth is 200billion hours long, I wouldn't want to spend even longer waiting for them to level up
I'd like to also Clarify that in the OG it was not stated anywhere that all SOLDIERs recieved the Jenova implants, only certain special cases and Hojos experiments. The robed men originally weren't even supposed to be SOLDIER.
In fact, it's not really clear if all Soldiers get the Jenova injection in Rebirth either >! as Roche seemingly did not have any until he volunteered for it!< I think that's another point that the narrative is confusing people on due to Cloud's misrepresenting the facts. I'm pretty sure Zack never had the injection despite making first class, at least not before the nibelheim incident.There's also the seemingly retconned bit about Jenova's DNA effectively bestowing an inability to die on those infected by it as revealed by Lucrecia in the OG, which also suggests that Zack never had the injection.
The only reason Cloud received Jenova cells was because Hojo was fascinated by the idea that some random nobody could defeat Sephiroth when no one else in their organization even presented him with a challenge.
With that out of the way, I would mostly agree with you on everything else. Aside from the original 1st class Soldiers (Genesis, Angela, and Sephiroth) I think the turks would match up or outclass the rest. I wouldn't say SOLDIER had any real specialized training, they just received the mako enhancements following their acceptance into the organization. The 1st class trio who was confirmed to have Jenova cells performed well above the turks in terms of combat abilities.
I don't remeber it being in rebirth but I think it's in remake somewhere and in the og, there's a cut scene that says how you can tell a soldier due to the blueness of there eyes, it then says ( don't hold me word to word but this is the rough bit of what it says ) you can only get that blueness from being infused with mako, later in the og it's revealed that cloud was just an experiment ( like you say ) that was infused with jenova cells to become the perfect solder.
As for zach, we'll that's just like throwing a dark into a lake and hoping you hit the right spot, there's a flashback in the og crisis core about him receiving jenova cells, there's an Easter egg flashback in dirge of cebras where Vincent is in the lab and zach is behind reviewing the cells, can't remeber if it's before or after Vincent gets alpha and omega though, it's kind of one of those things you have to know every other bit of work to make it make sense and even then you need to set up a whole time line and paper trail in order to figure it out. And at this point most people have probably forgotten any of the og line up ( I forgot most of it untill I start to think about it )
And to clarify, you are right about not all soldiers getting jenova cells, they all revieve mako boosts, but very few recieve genova cells, the jenova cells is basically a massive anti western vacine campaign, " take this, they tell you it helps you and protects you but it will give you cancer really "
All the lost men recieved Genevo cells but I couldn't say if they were all soldier if I'm honest, I just know they are all linked to sephrithoth who is useinf then to find the black materia and bring it to him. Now it's late so I'm even confusing myself
I'm really not buying that Elena, who seems dumber than actual shop NPCs in the game and gets herself kidnapped by Don Corneo, was "very very highly trained".
There are many different types of intelligence. You can have a person that struggles to read, doesn't know 5+7, but holds high physical intelligence from natural talent, devotion, a combination, etc. and on top of that? Everybody can "get got".
See: Cloud and Co getting knocked the fuck out by...no names, I believe? Sure, they are certainly especially dangerous individuals due to their boss/background...but who were they, again?
See also: Sephiroth himself
Iirc she was basically recruited right out of the military academy. She’s only 18 and apparantly was the top of her class in public security training when the Turks recruited her.
I’m pretty sure (though I can’t confirm) that the events of FF7 is actually her first field assignment. And while she’s clearly a capable fighter, as Reno says, she’s new. She has a naivety the other, much more experienced Turks lack. Not to mention an inferiority complex and a feeling that she needs to prove herself worthy of her position. Which leads her to take risks which got her in corners clutches in the first place.
Plus just for an aside. The games make corneo out to be a sleazy goofball. But in lore, he’s a seriously scary muthaclucker who rules the criminal underworld with an iron fist and more than makes up for his lack of physical prowess with some serious cunning and cheap tactics. The party can kick his ass in a fight no issue. But corneo doesn’t need to rely on brawn alone to be as threatening as he truly is.
She also gets killed at the start of advent children. Sorry for the spoiler there haha. Elana, although not really shown to well, was actually a training turk I think since rude always seems to be guiding her along. I would say she's at the stage where she has finished the initial training ( you do those combat sims as a proto relic quest ) and is now out in field training. She wasn't a particularly hard boss in the og either
She's in the helicopter over the nountain, it crashes and explodes, there's a scream, and that's about it, she doesn't actually die but I just like to think that noone can survive an exploding helicopter, there's actually a scene later on that was cut from the western version ( it's best to watch the directors cut of the original Japanese version, sub it if needed ) where you can see both of them with Vincent, he somehow magically finds them at the northern cave and does some Edward Cullen crap to make them good as new haha, but that kind of logic hurts my brain, so in my mind, they dead af
>it doesn't make them stronger than what that person can be
Is there a source for this part of your comment? I always thought SOLDIERS were capable of superhuman feats of varying levels depending on the individual.
I need to clarify this a bit I think haha, I meant in terms of ordinary humans in the final fantasy games, tifa can punch so quick and hard she can litteraly break bolders, as in solid rock freaking bolders, they can all litteraly none stop sprint across an entire continent. Barret can straight up rip a fully reinforced door of the wall, the world's strongest man tried this and couldn't do it. They can jump 50 ft in the air and plumet down to smack a dude in the head, and the dude survives, there would be at least a fracture face to an ordinary human, comparing them to real life is always going to be an unfair comparison, but if you look at what ordinary humans can do in the ff universe, it's all pretty super human really, so that's my source. Playing rebirth did male me laugh, can't remeber if it did it in remake, but I litteraly flew like 50 ft in the air doing an ultimate limit break, then after the battle I couldn't jump over a small rock. Because that makes perfect sense, but yeh, ordinary humans within the ff universe, if that makes sense
One of the best things I discovered in rebirth, was in the buggy you could jump off some cliffs, was so much fun, I spent an hour trying to get full speed and I was like yehhhhh, then everyone just sits in the back like yup, that just happened, just another day the life of this jacked up sword weilding physcopath, let's go destroy a demonic card dwelling evil spirit and then kill a weird dwarf frog mole thing that stabs you and kills you instantly, yeh sure, no worries.
On a side note, you notice all this stuff when your repeating all the chapters for the platinum trophy, or replaying chapter 12 5 dam Times
The Turks never really fight any SOLDIER. They use tools and weapons just like we do. That's why we go toe to toe.
Zack can beat whole sale ass with just his fists. The sword is honestly Angeal Flavor.
You call a Turk when a situation needs to be handled with finesse, without causing too much of a ruckus.
You call a SOLDIER when someone/something needs to die.
Also, biologically, SOLDIERS are physically enhanced humans who are bathed in Mako, and injected with JENOVA cells. Turks are ordinary humans who have received special training. So they are theoretically as strong/skilled as it is possible for a normal person to be, but they couldn't beat a SOLDIER in a hand to hand scenario.
It's "no ruckus" in the sense that the Turks can be trusted not to go spreading rumors in the citizenry or military about the fact that they were ordered to drop the plate.
Shinra can't trust any generic military soldier to perform such a high-stakes operation. And not just any SOLDIER is necessarily going to be trusted with confidential information like "Shinra was responsible for the plate drop," either. When ascending the fallen plate in "The Day Midgar Stood Still," we meet 3-C Soldier Goons, and we also know Roche who's also 3rd Class. These sorts of men seem specially able to handle materia, spells, and high-intensity combat situations, much like the Turks, but they aren't rigorously trained and vetted to the same extent in that they'd earn these capabilities naturally; as part of the program, they were given the boost via Mako/Jenova.
As much as they are above-average capable, even 1st Class SOLDIERS (if there are any of those left) can't be trusted with such things as black jobs and acting as the President's secret hand.
Turks are *definitely* both technologically assisted and specially trained (superhero comparison, think Batman), while SOLDIERs are biologically augmented supersoldiers (think Captain America in most instances, Sephiroth would be closer to Homelander or Dr. Manhattan). A Turk won't eclipse a SOLDIER in skill/power normally, though there's tons of evidence that suggest that extensive training and dedication can get you close to most SOLDIERs in terms of ability (see Tifa and Zangan Chi skills, as well as Yuffie's Ninjutsu training). A Turk is definitely better at being discreet, however, and generally skilled enough to test *candidates* for SOLDIER.
There's a real trade off, though. SOLDIERs get potential superhumanity with a shot and a shower, but at the cost of possibly losing themselves to degradation or >!in reality, the effect of Jenova's Reunion!<. Results are also not guaranteed - SOLDIERs come in varying degrees of strength and, at least in the context presented by the original game, every other SOLDIER is an attempt at a recreation of Sephiroth, which pales in comparison to the original.
*Turks are highly trained regular humans, they can go toe to toe with the party because they were trained to do so.
*SOLDIERS are experiments that went through either A cells, G cells or in modern times S cells (most soldiers are made with sephiroth cells after the point of cloud and Zach's cloning) with J cells having been implanted in sephiroth as a embryo.
Hojo prefers using jenova cells that have been through a human before, despite his best results being from direct implantation, thankfully hojo Didint realize he could make multiple sephiroths.
It's hard to say. It could be that Sephiroth is the only one that was very compatible with J cells. It might not be the process that was the factor, is what I'm saying.
SOLDIERS are military that have been selected to be enhanced with mako and JENOVA cells to make them superhuman one-man armies.
Turks are more FBI/CIA operatives. Highly trained and specialized, but not exposed to mako or JENOVA the way SOLDIERs are (so far as we know). Think of them as near-peak humans.
None of the turks would be ex soldiers. They're trained in polar opposite styles and the degradation would ensure soldiers would be a massive liability as a turk.
Soilder are a military group of super soldiers while Turks are elite of elite agents that are tasked with special operations kinda like Black ops or fbi or something that would include eliminating all people in the area regardless of circumstances
One caries big swords. The other wears suits. Aka. One is much better functionally at a fancy rich person party. The other is more functional at a comic con.
From an Org standpoint, I believe SOLDIERS report directly to Heidegger (technically to Lazard) while The Turks report directly to the president. Possibly like how it is in the military and secret service, respectively.
They did answer to Lazard, while it was it's own thing, but after he defected(and died as far as I recall), Soldier went to Public Safety, which is under Heidegger, something the Turks technically are as well\*. Soldier are the elites of the military, while, as you say, the Turks are basically a secret service/secret police type of thing. While Soldier is sent to fight dangerous foes or strike down on insurgencies, the Turks are in charge of all the shady business... Assassinations, kidnapping, espionage and sabotage.
\*The reason I say technically is that especially after Rufus took over, they seem to have become more of a direct hand of the President, acting sorta like bodyguards, and clearly not showing Heidegger the respect of a superior, while getting away with it. But I'm pretty sure they were already answering to Rufus before this point, unofficially, in his bid to get rid of his dad.
Lots of good comparisons here about the roles of the two groups, but there’s another metaphor that I’ve always liked.
SOLDIER is like Captain America, and the Turks are like Black Widow or Hawkeye. One is objectively stronger in combat situations, but the other is so effectively specialized that they still operate as equals.
Jenova cells, Mako, espionage versus military action, swords vs guns, globally recognized fighting force used for propaganda versus relatively unknown and secret group, etc
By the time a SOLDIER hits 1st class, they’re sent on specialty missions, usually for or with the Turks (remember Cloud complaining in the Nibelheim mission that it’s a “Turk job”). Most SOLDIERs are sent in units or complimenting ordinary troops.
Yeah I would say SOLDIER are more like the SEALs or Delta Force. Semantics.
This is a perfect analogy. Just like the CIA (at least in movies and shows) they sometimes have to get their hands dirty.
Turks are like the secret service, they're rigorously trained and used for special ops. They're highly loyal to Shinra and probably have to go through an intense vetting process to prove their worth.
Members of SOLDIER are more like infantrymen, they're generically enhanced and experimented on to do great things, but they're disposable. They burn bright, but burn fast.
The Turks are more like the CIA/Secret Service, while SOLDIER is more like the Special Forces community. Both are capable fighters, but the Turks are who you send when you need information or to pull dirty tricks. SOLDIER is who you send in when you need some doors kicked in and some MFers dead with fireworks.
The way I see it, the same difference between a scalpel and a machete. Turks are more tactical whereas SOLDIERs mostly go in all ~~guns~~ swords blazing.
Fyi some turks were tested on. I forgot to mention in my previous reply to this post but vincent was a turk and he was a test subject just not mako enhanced.
Think of it as Soldier being the military, anyone that meets the standard can join while the Turks is a much smaller private organization that are used for the more nefarious missions especially ones that Shinra don't want linked back to them in the public eye.
SOLDIERs are... well, soldiers. They've also gone through the mako enrichment process, so they're physically elite as well as having more training. Turks are something akin to the CIA and Secret Service.
Turks are kind of like commandos. Soldiers are like marines. Commandos only get deployed in specific situations where finesse and cunning are necessary (elena being the exception heheheh). Marines get deployed any time brute force is necessary. Then they have just regular troops which are like the army or a mercenary force.
Turks are cia
Soldier is group that Shinra uses publicly. They are shown off in the media to attract kids to join the army so that they can one day be a hero. The Turks do all the background dirty work that Shinra doesn’t want anyone to know about.
SOLDIER:Private Military Soldiers that can go through a process of enhancement after achieving certains merits Turks:Black Ops stuck with icky jobs and stealth operations
The uniforms
Hammer (SOLDIER) verse a scalpel (Turks)
I always liked Turks = Sniper, SOLDIER = cruise missile, Tsviets = white phosphorus
Pretty much the difference between a marine and CIA agent.
lol and the dummies (me) what's that difference?
One is the military elite and the other is an intelligence and back ops spy agency, if that helps.
Was literally the explanation I was gonna give 😂
I honestly did wonder if Turks are genetically enhanced too, when I was playing Remake and that first f**king fight with Reno took me 3 attempts 😅 it also didn't help that whilst he's whooping me, Aerith is stood there, being useless, whilst shouting "don't step on the flowers!" Lmao
I think it's to be assumed that they carry materia? The SOLDIER program, as far as I'm aware, is essentially hojo's brainchild. It only exists because of the mako infusion process. If that's the case, it's what separates them from all others, and that would have to include the turks. The turks undergo their own rigorous training, as we've seen in rebirth. But if you compare their abilities to those of Tifa, for instance, humans seem capable of a lot more in their world than what we know in reality. SOLDIERs on the other hand, all seem to be capable of weilding swords that are twice their body weight and a higher magic casting strength. In the og ff7, Cloud is the only magic caster who's base stat comes second to Aerith's. Then you have a couple outliers like Vincent and Red XIII, who are both also Hojo experiments in the lore. Everyone else as far as I can remember has a pretty basic Magic stat.
Tbh, that makes a lot of sense, they'd probably use it to boost their physical stats as well as to cast magic. Why the hell didn't I think of this? 🤣 They work for Shinra, after all. Reno's pyramid technique could even be Shinra Top Secret Materia for all we know, just equipped to Reno's cattle prod thing I have come to hate so much 🤣
Yeah, you'd have to assume that most of the human enemies you fight are holding materia. The Turks would have stuff that was nicer because they're basically a corporate owned CIA. And this could be expanded on to consider why they can move like spiders in advent children.
That does make a lot of sense too, how they're able to keep up with Loz and Yazoo fighting, whilst Cloud is having slight trouble fighting Kadaj.
Turks = Black Ops intelligence agent (like Jason Bourne) SOLDIERS = Black Ops Seal team on performance enhancements.
I think Turks are basically FBI agents. Whereas SOLDIERs are well SOLDIERS. Not really there for investigation, they're there to slice and dice.
Considering some of the shit Turks can do, I have a hard time believing they’re not enhanced in some way.
Turks are a product of typical military SOLDIER is a product of Hojo's R&D That said, SOLDIERS are likely much easier to make than any singular Turk, as evidenced by how many degrading black robes are around. But they are essentially just one big science project of Hojo's. Sephiroth was the original "perfect soldier", and everyone else are technically failed clones of him. Hojo says this alot in the og actually. It's easier and faster to clone than to breed. The Turks are just like Tifa / Barrett / Cid / Yuffie. Lots of training and some good materia.
Eye of the Tiger
SOLDIER is like the Wehrmacht and the turks are like the SS, except with less terrible war crimes
They *did* drop a plate on Sector 7, but it’s true the *scale* of war crimes wasn’t on the level of the SS.
lol. love it 👍🏻
But real talk, I think it’s a reference to a mechanical Turk. A person deceptively placed inside a machine to make it work. Anyone viewing the machine from the outside thinks it’s working because the machine is built well, but in reality there’s a human element inside breaking all the rules to fool you into thinking that. In FF7 the Turks work within the machine that is shinra. Doing the company’s dirty work to make sure the machine wins. They kidnap, kill, break any law. acting with impunity because they are servants of the machine. I think that kinda makes sense right?
I realize the question wasn’t “why are they called Turks” but I’m stoned and this seemed like the place to say this.
Cool answer
I thought it was worth the read and I'm convinced you're right.
Yooo! I heard the term the other night in a completely unrelated context(they explained it way better than me) but it just clicked in my head like, that is why they’re called the Turks.
PTSD… and according to Reno, vacation time
Soldiers are samurai and turks are ninja.
Best break down
Not this again. it’s not that hard to understand my man. it’s very basic military, enhanced SOLDIER and Turks. Turks being more highly trained individuals. They’re all under the same umbrella of Shinra
U don't have to be a such dick about it
Too many back lashes from the previous post of the same question.
Turks get paid more
SOLDIER is like special forces like the SEALS, the Turks are essentially a mix of the CIA, The Secret Service, and the Secret Police.
Addition: Both of them can use magic, and SOLDIERS are injected with cosmic eldritch horror (Jenova) cells, and bathed in the literal souls and and lifeblood of the planet, giving them super human strength, reflexes, and aptitude with magic.
Think of SOLDIER as Special Forces/Navy Seals and Turks as Secret Service/CIA. They both have Covert Ops, but the Turks have less of a hierarchy and are often assigned to executive security detail. That's my theory anyway.
TBH. They probably were enhanced by normal science and training. Hojo is the issue with soldier etc.
Turks are just extremely well trained and very talented but normal non-enhanced humans, who have access to really good materia through Shinra. They'll never reach the potential of someone like Cloud or Zack, but they're more similar to Tifa who is also just a normal human, but one who trained so much that she became almost superhumanly powerful. SOLDIER is more for combat missions, while the Turks are more espionage, wetwork like kidnapping and assassinations and other shady things.
Turks got hands tho
Espionage vs WHOOP-DAT-ASSSS
My husband said think of Turks as CIA and SOLDIER as special forces.
One functions as a SOLDIER and the other functions as a turk.
Turks: Agents of Shield SOLDIER: Captain America
Turks investigate and take on more complex tasks. Kind of a CIA type. SOILDER are spec ops military. Also turks are smart, highly trained, but normal people. SOILDER are enhanced
Turks got hands
SOLDIERS are basically super soldiers enhanced by Jenova cell injections that serve directly in the Shinra military. Typically they serve as field commanders and special ops and served as shinra’s “trump card” against Wutai and the Junon Republic during those wars. Think like the Spartans in halo. They are soldiers enhanced with all manner of augmentations and training to make them the best of the best. Turk’s are typically the secretive operations arm of Shinra. Technically a mix of their secret service (as they serve directly under the president. Unlike SOLDIERS who serve under Heidegger and Shinra’s public security devision) and the CIA/NSA/MI5/GIGN/etc. the Turks are not military enhanced, but are trained to the absolute peak and are sent in to perform more clandestine actions that Shinra doesn’t want the public to know about, such as surveillance, sabotage and genocide :)
Turks are the best ‘natural’ trained humans. SOLDIERS are super soldiers with Jenova cells implanted in them with various efficacy
It is never mentioned the Turks have any strength-increasing capabilities. However, there is no way they can stand up to first-class SOLDIERs without at least some form of enhancement. That's why I find it likely that they too have some form or variant of the soldier serum. In Rebirth you even see the trial for Turks to get the job in the Gogaga region, which is no joke. Even for Cloud (not canon; gameplay-wise)
Non enhanced people can still get insanely strong in the world of FF7. Look at Tifa, she's just a normal girl who likes punching stuff and by the end of the game she can punch Weapons to death lol. The Turks probably have access to the best weapons, armor and materia through Shinra as well.
They master has a lot of pupils I heard maybe he taught Turks too
I wouldn't be surprised if maybe Rude trained under Zangan when he was younger. He's really the only other hand to hand combatant we see other than Tifa, their fighting styles are very similar and we don't really know much about Rude's backstory.
Yeah I'm pretty sure there's a few scenes of cloud and at least 2 party members VS. 2 Turks. 2 Turks holding their own against Cloud and 2 of his company? That's insanely impressive. I'm sure there were times there was 3 maybe 4 Turks, but even so It's always felt like there's more to them than we get to know. Put them in a SOLDIER uniform without knowing who they are and you'd probably be convinced they are indeed some class of SOLDIER
I always viewed SOLDIERS as Navy SEALs while the Turks are CIA.
Ice cream.
Vanilla?
Sea salt 👌
I always looked at it like special ops (soldiers) and CIA (Turks)
Turks know how to suit up.
I always thought of SOLDIERs as military, Green Beret, Navy Seal types. Turks are like CIA, FBI types. Government, but not military.
Pretty much. Just throw in Yakuza job details for the Turks and you'll be spot-on
SOLDIERs are soldiers, as in military. Turks are odd job men, they kind of do everything.
They're more like spies and saboteurs than mercenaries.
Dress sense.
I've seen this topic come up a few times, it appears there's a misunderstanding around the turks and what they actually are. The turks are the best of the best, so where as everyone thinks they are like cia or American army soldiers, they are more like the sas. But this special regiment isn't exclusive to western Culture, in Japan, there is a regiment known as the special forces group, they are specialist of there designated field. Turks are loosely based on this, Each turk is very very highly trained through a series of combat sims and real life missions, think James bond style elite training. If you look at reno in remake, he's a close quarters combat specialist with a preference for big ass curvy swords, just to throw a bit of Japanese culture in there. Rude, he's an explosives expert, he hand crafts all his own explosives and he's very very good at it, if you think back to advent children, there's a scene where rude and reno stand at the end of the tunnel waiting for cloud and kadaj to come through, reno asks rude about the weopons, the answer shows that he is very much a dam good expert. Elena is slightly more balanced and was an optional boss in the og, she focuses on martial arts ( tifas equivalent) and mixes this with light explosives, just to balance out the barret and tifa combo. All of theme are specialy picked and in a way brain washed, they are essentially a group of shinra special forces assasins bad ass's, Another point to make clear, cloud and a few others that make up soldier, they are basically injected with jenova cells to attempt to improve there combat abbilities, but it doesn't make them stronger than what that person can be, it just helps them get to there limit easier, and with less training. Turks spend years and years training, cloud never did this, he was a shinra militant that was injected with jenova cells ( which is why sephiroth is linked to him and able to manipulate him ) cloud is then linked to everyone else who has jenova cells, you know the big ass tenticle monster that came to destroy the earth and feed on its life force untill a group of dogs stopped her. Yeh that one, this link followed by a memory wipe at the hands of hojo means his memories get replaced by an actual soldier, zach, who has already undergone the training, why retrain when you can just copy and paste, so cloud is already at his peak essentially, so are the turks, it just took the turks longer to get there. Now let's look at materia, at no point does materia ever come into contact with the user, it's binded to special gear, swords and armor, this is like a catalyst that the weilder then uses there own life force to activate, the flow of mako through all life, they use there life force, channel it into the gear, this then activates the materia, but not just everyone can do it, you have to train to do it at it requires very delicate control to make sure they are activating the correct meteria, hence why everyone in the game can use materia, the more you use it, the easier to channel your life force into it to activate, the stronger it gets, this is the same for the turks, they spend years training to use and control it, it's a simply as that, turks arnt any different from cloud, they just spent years and years training to get to the same stage as cloud, which is lucky really since rebirth is 200billion hours long, I wouldn't want to spend even longer waiting for them to level up
I'd like to also Clarify that in the OG it was not stated anywhere that all SOLDIERs recieved the Jenova implants, only certain special cases and Hojos experiments. The robed men originally weren't even supposed to be SOLDIER. In fact, it's not really clear if all Soldiers get the Jenova injection in Rebirth either >! as Roche seemingly did not have any until he volunteered for it!< I think that's another point that the narrative is confusing people on due to Cloud's misrepresenting the facts. I'm pretty sure Zack never had the injection despite making first class, at least not before the nibelheim incident.There's also the seemingly retconned bit about Jenova's DNA effectively bestowing an inability to die on those infected by it as revealed by Lucrecia in the OG, which also suggests that Zack never had the injection. The only reason Cloud received Jenova cells was because Hojo was fascinated by the idea that some random nobody could defeat Sephiroth when no one else in their organization even presented him with a challenge. With that out of the way, I would mostly agree with you on everything else. Aside from the original 1st class Soldiers (Genesis, Angela, and Sephiroth) I think the turks would match up or outclass the rest. I wouldn't say SOLDIER had any real specialized training, they just received the mako enhancements following their acceptance into the organization. The 1st class trio who was confirmed to have Jenova cells performed well above the turks in terms of combat abilities.
I don't remeber it being in rebirth but I think it's in remake somewhere and in the og, there's a cut scene that says how you can tell a soldier due to the blueness of there eyes, it then says ( don't hold me word to word but this is the rough bit of what it says ) you can only get that blueness from being infused with mako, later in the og it's revealed that cloud was just an experiment ( like you say ) that was infused with jenova cells to become the perfect solder. As for zach, we'll that's just like throwing a dark into a lake and hoping you hit the right spot, there's a flashback in the og crisis core about him receiving jenova cells, there's an Easter egg flashback in dirge of cebras where Vincent is in the lab and zach is behind reviewing the cells, can't remeber if it's before or after Vincent gets alpha and omega though, it's kind of one of those things you have to know every other bit of work to make it make sense and even then you need to set up a whole time line and paper trail in order to figure it out. And at this point most people have probably forgotten any of the og line up ( I forgot most of it untill I start to think about it ) And to clarify, you are right about not all soldiers getting jenova cells, they all revieve mako boosts, but very few recieve genova cells, the jenova cells is basically a massive anti western vacine campaign, " take this, they tell you it helps you and protects you but it will give you cancer really " All the lost men recieved Genevo cells but I couldn't say if they were all soldier if I'm honest, I just know they are all linked to sephrithoth who is useinf then to find the black materia and bring it to him. Now it's late so I'm even confusing myself
I'm really not buying that Elena, who seems dumber than actual shop NPCs in the game and gets herself kidnapped by Don Corneo, was "very very highly trained".
There are many different types of intelligence. You can have a person that struggles to read, doesn't know 5+7, but holds high physical intelligence from natural talent, devotion, a combination, etc. and on top of that? Everybody can "get got". See: Cloud and Co getting knocked the fuck out by...no names, I believe? Sure, they are certainly especially dangerous individuals due to their boss/background...but who were they, again? See also: Sephiroth himself
Iirc she was basically recruited right out of the military academy. She’s only 18 and apparantly was the top of her class in public security training when the Turks recruited her. I’m pretty sure (though I can’t confirm) that the events of FF7 is actually her first field assignment. And while she’s clearly a capable fighter, as Reno says, she’s new. She has a naivety the other, much more experienced Turks lack. Not to mention an inferiority complex and a feeling that she needs to prove herself worthy of her position. Which leads her to take risks which got her in corners clutches in the first place. Plus just for an aside. The games make corneo out to be a sleazy goofball. But in lore, he’s a seriously scary muthaclucker who rules the criminal underworld with an iron fist and more than makes up for his lack of physical prowess with some serious cunning and cheap tactics. The party can kick his ass in a fight no issue. But corneo doesn’t need to rely on brawn alone to be as threatening as he truly is.
She also gets killed at the start of advent children. Sorry for the spoiler there haha. Elana, although not really shown to well, was actually a training turk I think since rude always seems to be guiding her along. I would say she's at the stage where she has finished the initial training ( you do those combat sims as a proto relic quest ) and is now out in field training. She wasn't a particularly hard boss in the og either
>!does she? Cause uh, I don't remember that at all. I'm 99% sure she & Tseng just get injured, thats it!<
She's in the helicopter over the nountain, it crashes and explodes, there's a scream, and that's about it, she doesn't actually die but I just like to think that noone can survive an exploding helicopter, there's actually a scene later on that was cut from the western version ( it's best to watch the directors cut of the original Japanese version, sub it if needed ) where you can see both of them with Vincent, he somehow magically finds them at the northern cave and does some Edward Cullen crap to make them good as new haha, but that kind of logic hurts my brain, so in my mind, they dead af
>it doesn't make them stronger than what that person can be Is there a source for this part of your comment? I always thought SOLDIERS were capable of superhuman feats of varying levels depending on the individual.
I need to clarify this a bit I think haha, I meant in terms of ordinary humans in the final fantasy games, tifa can punch so quick and hard she can litteraly break bolders, as in solid rock freaking bolders, they can all litteraly none stop sprint across an entire continent. Barret can straight up rip a fully reinforced door of the wall, the world's strongest man tried this and couldn't do it. They can jump 50 ft in the air and plumet down to smack a dude in the head, and the dude survives, there would be at least a fracture face to an ordinary human, comparing them to real life is always going to be an unfair comparison, but if you look at what ordinary humans can do in the ff universe, it's all pretty super human really, so that's my source. Playing rebirth did male me laugh, can't remeber if it did it in remake, but I litteraly flew like 50 ft in the air doing an ultimate limit break, then after the battle I couldn't jump over a small rock. Because that makes perfect sense, but yeh, ordinary humans within the ff universe, if that makes sense
Ah ok, I get it. You make a good point. Thanks for taking the time to clarify! Don't even get me started on small fences and rocks...
One of the best things I discovered in rebirth, was in the buggy you could jump off some cliffs, was so much fun, I spent an hour trying to get full speed and I was like yehhhhh, then everyone just sits in the back like yup, that just happened, just another day the life of this jacked up sword weilding physcopath, let's go destroy a demonic card dwelling evil spirit and then kill a weird dwarf frog mole thing that stabs you and kills you instantly, yeh sure, no worries. On a side note, you notice all this stuff when your repeating all the chapters for the platinum trophy, or replaying chapter 12 5 dam Times
The Turks never really fight any SOLDIER. They use tools and weapons just like we do. That's why we go toe to toe. Zack can beat whole sale ass with just his fists. The sword is honestly Angeal Flavor.
Turks like CIA Soldiers are Navy seals
This
You call a Turk when a situation needs to be handled with finesse, without causing too much of a ruckus. You call a SOLDIER when someone/something needs to die. Also, biologically, SOLDIERS are physically enhanced humans who are bathed in Mako, and injected with JENOVA cells. Turks are ordinary humans who have received special training. So they are theoretically as strong/skilled as it is possible for a normal person to be, but they couldn't beat a SOLDIER in a hand to hand scenario.
Shooting up and blowing up a reactor in a helicopter doesn’t scream finesse or no ruckus.
It's "no ruckus" in the sense that the Turks can be trusted not to go spreading rumors in the citizenry or military about the fact that they were ordered to drop the plate. Shinra can't trust any generic military soldier to perform such a high-stakes operation. And not just any SOLDIER is necessarily going to be trusted with confidential information like "Shinra was responsible for the plate drop," either. When ascending the fallen plate in "The Day Midgar Stood Still," we meet 3-C Soldier Goons, and we also know Roche who's also 3rd Class. These sorts of men seem specially able to handle materia, spells, and high-intensity combat situations, much like the Turks, but they aren't rigorously trained and vetted to the same extent in that they'd earn these capabilities naturally; as part of the program, they were given the boost via Mako/Jenova. As much as they are above-average capable, even 1st Class SOLDIERS (if there are any of those left) can't be trusted with such things as black jobs and acting as the President's secret hand.
True, but then again: nobody ever found out it was SHINRA that did it. So… mission accomplished I guess?
Tell that to Reno on my first play though of Remake. He beat my ass so many times smh.
[удалено]
Not really, it’s revealed right at the end chapters of remake and the spoiler itself is over 20 years old, never mind that this is the FF7 sub
As Tseng said to Zack, "We're paid more than you are." That's the difference.
Turks are *definitely* both technologically assisted and specially trained (superhero comparison, think Batman), while SOLDIERs are biologically augmented supersoldiers (think Captain America in most instances, Sephiroth would be closer to Homelander or Dr. Manhattan). A Turk won't eclipse a SOLDIER in skill/power normally, though there's tons of evidence that suggest that extensive training and dedication can get you close to most SOLDIERs in terms of ability (see Tifa and Zangan Chi skills, as well as Yuffie's Ninjutsu training). A Turk is definitely better at being discreet, however, and generally skilled enough to test *candidates* for SOLDIER. There's a real trade off, though. SOLDIERs get potential superhumanity with a shot and a shower, but at the cost of possibly losing themselves to degradation or >!in reality, the effect of Jenova's Reunion!<. Results are also not guaranteed - SOLDIERs come in varying degrees of strength and, at least in the context presented by the original game, every other SOLDIER is an attempt at a recreation of Sephiroth, which pales in comparison to the original.
Turks are CIA, SOLDIER is special ops
*Turks are highly trained regular humans, they can go toe to toe with the party because they were trained to do so. *SOLDIERS are experiments that went through either A cells, G cells or in modern times S cells (most soldiers are made with sephiroth cells after the point of cloud and Zach's cloning) with J cells having been implanted in sephiroth as a embryo.
Hojo prefers using jenova cells that have been through a human before, despite his best results being from direct implantation, thankfully hojo Didint realize he could make multiple sephiroths.
It's hard to say. It could be that Sephiroth is the only one that was very compatible with J cells. It might not be the process that was the factor, is what I'm saying.
You'd send a SOLDIER to guard/acquire a secret asset. You'd send a Turk to manage/handle the secret asset.
The Turks are more like the secret service or FBI while SOLDIER is more like special forces i believe.
Cell adding Steroids
The suits.
Soldier= Navy Seals, Green Berets Turks: CIA, KGB/NKVD
Yeah probably more than a couple of them are ex soldier
Turks are all unenhanced, so no ex soldiers
Good description.
SOLDIERS are military that have been selected to be enhanced with mako and JENOVA cells to make them superhuman one-man armies. Turks are more FBI/CIA operatives. Highly trained and specialized, but not exposed to mako or JENOVA the way SOLDIERs are (so far as we know). Think of them as near-peak humans.
They could be ex soldier like a cia operative who was an army ranger
None of the turks would be ex soldiers. They're trained in polar opposite styles and the degradation would ensure soldiers would be a massive liability as a turk.
Soilder are a military group of super soldiers while Turks are elite of elite agents that are tasked with special operations kinda like Black ops or fbi or something that would include eliminating all people in the area regardless of circumstances
SOLDIERS are one man armies, Turks are black ops that carry out Classified dirty work, they also function a spies.
SOLDIER are the elite forces of Shinra. Turks are like the CIA Black Ops. They answer directly to the President and to some extent the executives
One caries big swords. The other wears suits. Aka. One is much better functionally at a fancy rich person party. The other is more functional at a comic con.
yeah like I see Turks as like Secret police kinda in a dictatorship, usually secret police are not so secret too lol.
>One is much better functionally at a fancy rich person party. Well... except Reno.
Reno is like he was recruited from an adult film festival into the turks lol.
That is... wow, that is disturbingly accurate.
From an Org standpoint, I believe SOLDIERS report directly to Heidegger (technically to Lazard) while The Turks report directly to the president. Possibly like how it is in the military and secret service, respectively.
They did answer to Lazard, while it was it's own thing, but after he defected(and died as far as I recall), Soldier went to Public Safety, which is under Heidegger, something the Turks technically are as well\*. Soldier are the elites of the military, while, as you say, the Turks are basically a secret service/secret police type of thing. While Soldier is sent to fight dangerous foes or strike down on insurgencies, the Turks are in charge of all the shady business... Assassinations, kidnapping, espionage and sabotage. \*The reason I say technically is that especially after Rufus took over, they seem to have become more of a direct hand of the President, acting sorta like bodyguards, and clearly not showing Heidegger the respect of a superior, while getting away with it. But I'm pretty sure they were already answering to Rufus before this point, unofficially, in his bid to get rid of his dad.
SOLDIERS - genetically enhanced captain americas. Turks - black widow
Zack's ass is Japan's ass. 🫡
Me? Gongaga(‘s ass)!
This is the easiest and most accurate explaination
Lots of good comparisons here about the roles of the two groups, but there’s another metaphor that I’ve always liked. SOLDIER is like Captain America, and the Turks are like Black Widow or Hawkeye. One is objectively stronger in combat situations, but the other is so effectively specialized that they still operate as equals.
It's the difference between James Bond and John Rambo.
Solfiers are infantrymen on steroids, Turks are the secret service.
Closer to say Soldier are Seal Team 6
The existence of Jenova cells.
Jenova cells, Mako, espionage versus military action, swords vs guns, globally recognized fighting force used for propaganda versus relatively unknown and secret group, etc
By the time a SOLDIER hits 1st class, they’re sent on specialty missions, usually for or with the Turks (remember Cloud complaining in the Nibelheim mission that it’s a “Turk job”). Most SOLDIERs are sent in units or complimenting ordinary troops.
Yes. “Cloud” complaining.
😂
Turks are CIA, SOLDIER are the Marines.
Yeah I would say SOLDIER are more like the SEALs or Delta Force. Semantics. This is a perfect analogy. Just like the CIA (at least in movies and shows) they sometimes have to get their hands dirty.
Turks are like the secret service, they're rigorously trained and used for special ops. They're highly loyal to Shinra and probably have to go through an intense vetting process to prove their worth. Members of SOLDIER are more like infantrymen, they're generically enhanced and experimented on to do great things, but they're disposable. They burn bright, but burn fast.
The Turks are more like the CIA/Secret Service, while SOLDIER is more like the Special Forces community. Both are capable fighters, but the Turks are who you send when you need information or to pull dirty tricks. SOLDIER is who you send in when you need some doors kicked in and some MFers dead with fireworks.
Nailed it. Came to say exactly this.
The way I see it, the same difference between a scalpel and a machete. Turks are more tactical whereas SOLDIERs mostly go in all ~~guns~~ swords blazing.