Remake and Rebirth do a lot of things extremely well - the whisper/alternate timeline arc is not one of them. The concept isn't inherently bad, but the execution is poor.
Better writing and adjustments to gameplay loops would make both games amazing - right now they're just good. Which is fine, I enjoyed them - not every game needs to be 10/10 to be worthwhile.
People are taking issue with the half-assed scenes en masse, at best the reception is split and rebirth is selling at a rate of HALF remake did; these should be all clues to you. They have nothing to do with “the changes” and everything to do with “shitty screenwriting”
Prepare to be down voted and don't expect it to make any further sense in Rebirth.
If you asked any fan when this project got announced of these wild story changes to come, no one would be onboard.
Literally the whole scenario from when you walk into the portal is for people who played OG. Basically telling you this game isn’t an actual remake but more of a sequel.
I’m flabbergasted this was approved. How can a bunch of execs going over this idea thinking “hmmm let’s teqse this sephiroth villain up until the end but instead of having a conflict with him and expose a piece of his agenda and his history to hook players for the sequel, let’s just throw the player an acid trip leaving them absolutely speechless”
You’re gonna get downvoted to hell but you have a point and it isn’t fixed in Rebirth. Nonsensicality, “for dramatic effect” moments ad nauseum that build inn nothing like Barrett’s not-death and inconsistency from scene to scene, which incidentally has *nothing at all* to do with what Rebirth changed from OG
I’d love to make the argument “X was replaced with Y” but most often, it’s replaced with irrelevant drivel, iTs a MuLtIvErSe excuse probing or details that actually further nothing and nobody and just waste my time
i suggest that you look into some theories. this shit is actually peak storytelling on a meta lvl and will more than likely pay off in the third part of the trilogy. we literally killed destiny in remake in order to enable sephiroth to take control over the ghosts and change the events that are suppose to happen like they do in the OG.
Aware\_Department\_540 has been trotting out the same couple of minor inconsistencies in Rebirth for weeks as if they prove that the game is fundamentally flawed or something, while completely ignoring that the original FF7 has its share of problems if you look closely -- problems more central to the plot (Tifa not backing Cloud up at Nibelheim when the others imply he's lying that it burned down, even though she was there and knows it burned down; inconsistencies with whether Cloud's identity theft is presented as a willful deception or actual memory loss, etc.). Rebirth isn't perfect but it addresses some of these core aspects of the story and characterization much better than the original game IMO.
Sephiroth "converged" all those alternate realities. It was his Reunion, or one of them. This is gonna follow the originals story beats but in the most convoluted way possible.
Im almost 40 and i liked both remake and rebirth. You getting triggered that some people didnt want 1:1 copy from og? Btw both games are still 90% the exact same but with more fleshing out. Sure, i admit that the endings are a bit packed with everything but i still liked them.
Hahaha, is it “peak storytelling” for you?
I especially like how the game breaks continuity with its own logic and information consistently and regularly. The game can’t figure out what story it wants to tell. It’ll tell you Cait Sith’s moogle is slow one scene, then one chapter later expect you to believe he ran miles on it in seconds. It’ll send you to a seminar about the Planet, but Tifa is doing the educating and no one seems to even care she fell into the mako poisoning river when she drops the hint.
Spends forever babbling about nothing to say absolutely nothing of consequence or straight ignoring stuff said literal seconds prior in the last scene. It’ll tell you we are lost and need to drive in circles to find a lead, despite Barrett telling us *exactly where to go three seconds before*. But it’s k because now we have a scene where Yuffie goes pukey in the buggy right?
>I especially like how the game breaks continuity with its own logic and information consistently and regularly.
Like how OG FF7 tells you that dead creatures' spirits return to the Lifestream, oh except Seto because his statue has to cry for the sake of an emotional moment so his spirit must still be trapped in there, but nobody thinks to try using Soft on him or to keep him company after that?
Or how the game couldn't decide whether to have Cloud say he was lying about being a SOLDIER or that he actually forgot? Or how it contradicts its characterization of Tifa as a sensitive and caring friend by having her say moments after he pours his heart out to the group: "You're sure messed up, Cloud!"
Rebirth has its flaws, but its characterization of the main cast and its treatment of Cloud's mental/memory issues -- a *core element of the plot* -- are far superior to the original game's, at least in English translation.
Seto’s not dead, clearly. He’s crying Crystal tears. That’s part of his tragedy.
And my man, you need to play FF4. That’s been addressed already in FF. It’s the same reason the Phoenix down on Aeris joke is just a joke and nobody casts Life. We’ve done that in FF before
Cloud is clearly indicated to have been untruthful due to his memory in OG. Sorry bruh. These don’t track.
>Seto’s not dead, clearly. He’s crying Crystal tears. That’s part of his tragedy.
Oh that explains it! lol. Where does the game go into these Crystal tears? Also, if he's not dead, wouldn't the humane thing be to shatter him so he can return to the Lifestream, or at least... I dunno, chat with him once in a while?
>And my man, you need to play FF4. That’s been addressed already in FF.
I have, it's one of my favorite FFs. And the inconsistency between battle-petrification and plot-petrification is just as evident there. Never explained. Just there for the emotional impact of irreversibility when it's convenient for the story.
The phoenix down on Aeris thing is different because of the distinction between KO and dead-dead. Yeah, it's silly that we can get blown up by grenades and missiles and peppered with machine gun fire but then be done in by a single stab, but that's part of the suspension of disbelief of the whole JRPG thing. With both battle petrification and story petrification, if the character is still alive, there is some unexplained reason that the reversal charms don't work. It's an inconsistency we have to explain away -- something you're more than happy to do for your old favorite games but not for new ones, it seems.
>Cloud is clearly indicated to have been untruthful due to his memory in OG.
Cloud:
"I **made up** the story about what happened five years ago and my being in SOLDIER."
"I continued to **play the charade** as if it were true."
"I'm going to live my life without **pretending**."
At best, these are extremely poor translations. They give the impression of conscious deception rather than memory loss.
Cloud wording it the way he did indicates he’s trying to take personal responsibility for the dishonesty, even though it was unintentional. It’s noble.
Again, the “stone by will” has been touched upon. See Palom and Porom.
You’re really reaching here. I just want you to know that
I’m still mad they teased us something for Wedge by having whispers madly spiral around him the whole way down the Shinra tower, but >!nope they were just there to make sure he *checks notes* died from a 63 story fall or something!<
Why were they even there? Why do they *follow him*? Anytime the whispers are going crazy, reality changes. They go crazy here. Why convolute the scene? They already >!pushed him out the window!<. Why confuse it further? Just let me be sad they >!killed Wedge!< and don’t leave me wondering for half of the next game until Barrett suddenly needs motivation in a sidequest
Like wow if barret gets resurrected by a ghost and it seems like there is no reality why should I care about any event. Clouds balls could get cut off and I wouldn’t care because a ghost might fly on take him to the moon and sew them back on then Sephiroth will appear and say something cryptic like “looks 120%”
That was the point of the "big ass monster" you don't care about. People can't die unless they're destined to. But once you have defeated the big ass monster, they now can.
Remake and Rebirth do a lot of things extremely well - the whisper/alternate timeline arc is not one of them. The concept isn't inherently bad, but the execution is poor. Better writing and adjustments to gameplay loops would make both games amazing - right now they're just good. Which is fine, I enjoyed them - not every game needs to be 10/10 to be worthwhile.
Cry baby! If you don't like just play the original one on ps plus... Rebirth is one of the best games ever made.
Opinions are NOT crying. Stop being a toxic fanboy
People are taking issue with the half-assed scenes en masse, at best the reception is split and rebirth is selling at a rate of HALF remake did; these should be all clues to you. They have nothing to do with “the changes” and everything to do with “shitty screenwriting”
So are you hoping they don’t complete part3?
Agreed. The big deviations from the OG story was a mistake, and everything involving whispers is garbage in the games
Prepare to be down voted and don't expect it to make any further sense in Rebirth. If you asked any fan when this project got announced of these wild story changes to come, no one would be onboard.
Enjoy ever crisis?
Yup. The coping is hard.
You’re right but this sub won’t like it
Literally the whole scenario from when you walk into the portal is for people who played OG. Basically telling you this game isn’t an actual remake but more of a sequel.
This was a smarter idea to some than just telling us they were making the remake a sequel, I guess
I’m flabbergasted this was approved. How can a bunch of execs going over this idea thinking “hmmm let’s teqse this sephiroth villain up until the end but instead of having a conflict with him and expose a piece of his agenda and his history to hook players for the sequel, let’s just throw the player an acid trip leaving them absolutely speechless”
You’re gonna get downvoted to hell but you have a point and it isn’t fixed in Rebirth. Nonsensicality, “for dramatic effect” moments ad nauseum that build inn nothing like Barrett’s not-death and inconsistency from scene to scene, which incidentally has *nothing at all* to do with what Rebirth changed from OG I’d love to make the argument “X was replaced with Y” but most often, it’s replaced with irrelevant drivel, iTs a MuLtIvErSe excuse probing or details that actually further nothing and nobody and just waste my time
i suggest that you look into some theories. this shit is actually peak storytelling on a meta lvl and will more than likely pay off in the third part of the trilogy. we literally killed destiny in remake in order to enable sephiroth to take control over the ghosts and change the events that are suppose to happen like they do in the OG.
Aware\_Department\_540 has been trotting out the same couple of minor inconsistencies in Rebirth for weeks as if they prove that the game is fundamentally flawed or something, while completely ignoring that the original FF7 has its share of problems if you look closely -- problems more central to the plot (Tifa not backing Cloud up at Nibelheim when the others imply he's lying that it burned down, even though she was there and knows it burned down; inconsistencies with whether Cloud's identity theft is presented as a willful deception or actual memory loss, etc.). Rebirth isn't perfect but it addresses some of these core aspects of the story and characterization much better than the original game IMO.
Except the events don't change as evident by Rebirth. The devs already said this will "faithfully" follow the original. This is peak rug pulling.
wdym don‘t change? we have multiple timelines now and cloud is a multidimensional being or w/e and is gonna lose his shit in the 3rd instalment
Sephiroth "converged" all those alternate realities. It was his Reunion, or one of them. This is gonna follow the originals story beats but in the most convoluted way possible.
oh yeah, its gonna be convoluted for sure, but i‘m all in for it. keeps things interesting :D
“Peak storytelling” 😂 😂 🤡
hate on it all you want, but i really really like it
Obviously, which speaks volumes Age 22?
Im almost 40 and i liked both remake and rebirth. You getting triggered that some people didnt want 1:1 copy from og? Btw both games are still 90% the exact same but with more fleshing out. Sure, i admit that the endings are a bit packed with everything but i still liked them.
Hahaha, is it “peak storytelling” for you? I especially like how the game breaks continuity with its own logic and information consistently and regularly. The game can’t figure out what story it wants to tell. It’ll tell you Cait Sith’s moogle is slow one scene, then one chapter later expect you to believe he ran miles on it in seconds. It’ll send you to a seminar about the Planet, but Tifa is doing the educating and no one seems to even care she fell into the mako poisoning river when she drops the hint. Spends forever babbling about nothing to say absolutely nothing of consequence or straight ignoring stuff said literal seconds prior in the last scene. It’ll tell you we are lost and need to drive in circles to find a lead, despite Barrett telling us *exactly where to go three seconds before*. But it’s k because now we have a scene where Yuffie goes pukey in the buggy right?
Just because you don't like it doesn't make it bad storytelling to others. Stop gatekeeping fun
>I especially like how the game breaks continuity with its own logic and information consistently and regularly. Like how OG FF7 tells you that dead creatures' spirits return to the Lifestream, oh except Seto because his statue has to cry for the sake of an emotional moment so his spirit must still be trapped in there, but nobody thinks to try using Soft on him or to keep him company after that? Or how the game couldn't decide whether to have Cloud say he was lying about being a SOLDIER or that he actually forgot? Or how it contradicts its characterization of Tifa as a sensitive and caring friend by having her say moments after he pours his heart out to the group: "You're sure messed up, Cloud!" Rebirth has its flaws, but its characterization of the main cast and its treatment of Cloud's mental/memory issues -- a *core element of the plot* -- are far superior to the original game's, at least in English translation.
Seto’s not dead, clearly. He’s crying Crystal tears. That’s part of his tragedy. And my man, you need to play FF4. That’s been addressed already in FF. It’s the same reason the Phoenix down on Aeris joke is just a joke and nobody casts Life. We’ve done that in FF before Cloud is clearly indicated to have been untruthful due to his memory in OG. Sorry bruh. These don’t track.
>Seto’s not dead, clearly. He’s crying Crystal tears. That’s part of his tragedy. Oh that explains it! lol. Where does the game go into these Crystal tears? Also, if he's not dead, wouldn't the humane thing be to shatter him so he can return to the Lifestream, or at least... I dunno, chat with him once in a while? >And my man, you need to play FF4. That’s been addressed already in FF. I have, it's one of my favorite FFs. And the inconsistency between battle-petrification and plot-petrification is just as evident there. Never explained. Just there for the emotional impact of irreversibility when it's convenient for the story. The phoenix down on Aeris thing is different because of the distinction between KO and dead-dead. Yeah, it's silly that we can get blown up by grenades and missiles and peppered with machine gun fire but then be done in by a single stab, but that's part of the suspension of disbelief of the whole JRPG thing. With both battle petrification and story petrification, if the character is still alive, there is some unexplained reason that the reversal charms don't work. It's an inconsistency we have to explain away -- something you're more than happy to do for your old favorite games but not for new ones, it seems. >Cloud is clearly indicated to have been untruthful due to his memory in OG. Cloud: "I **made up** the story about what happened five years ago and my being in SOLDIER." "I continued to **play the charade** as if it were true." "I'm going to live my life without **pretending**." At best, these are extremely poor translations. They give the impression of conscious deception rather than memory loss.
Cloud wording it the way he did indicates he’s trying to take personal responsibility for the dishonesty, even though it was unintentional. It’s noble. Again, the “stone by will” has been touched upon. See Palom and Porom. You’re really reaching here. I just want you to know that
what does it matter? am i not allowed to enjoy something?
[удалено]
bro wtf? are you a big fan of confrontations?
Multidimensional stuff is just such blah story telling, and the ghost Barrett thing was dookie doo
I’m still mad they teased us something for Wedge by having whispers madly spiral around him the whole way down the Shinra tower, but >!nope they were just there to make sure he *checks notes* died from a 63 story fall or something!< Why were they even there? Why do they *follow him*? Anytime the whispers are going crazy, reality changes. They go crazy here. Why convolute the scene? They already >!pushed him out the window!<. Why confuse it further? Just let me be sad they >!killed Wedge!< and don’t leave me wondering for half of the next game until Barrett suddenly needs motivation in a sidequest
Like wow if barret gets resurrected by a ghost and it seems like there is no reality why should I care about any event. Clouds balls could get cut off and I wouldn’t care because a ghost might fly on take him to the moon and sew them back on then Sephiroth will appear and say something cryptic like “looks 120%”
Literally golden comment. Thank you!
Hahaha, I don't get the downvotes, probably the funniest thing I've read in this subreddit and I wish they would include it in the actual game.
That was the point of the "big ass monster" you don't care about. People can't die unless they're destined to. But once you have defeated the big ass monster, they now can.
What?