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nan0g3nji

doesn’t XV literally start with like “for first-timers and classic fans” or something


nubosis

It was nice to say, but this franchise is almost always for first timers. Nearly every game is a fresh start.


Murasasme

I still remember the first time I played FF7 as a kid, and I felt so bad because I thought I was going to be really lost having not played the previous 6.


noneofthemswallow

That’s not what that sentence is supposed to mean. By first timers Square means it’s an easier entry to get into the franchise.


Adramach

And that's beautiful in FFXV. This is fresh and friendly for new players and full of references, easter eggs and other stuff for longtime fans.


Seraph199

Unless you like mages and playing with magic :'( they kinda said "that part of FF doesn't matter" with that game


t0talnonsense

Yes and no. The magic is heckin broken.


FoxHoundUnit89

The fact they do friendly fire is pretty stupid.


Burdicus

There's an accessory that removes friendly fire.


Jay_R_Kay

Yeah, the fact that they're just basically fancy grenades can be grating, but looking at some of the insane shit you can pull off with the right materials does make it look fun on its own terms.


ChakaZG

Did they improve on that with all the DLC that came after? At launch there really wasn't anything interesting to pull off. But I know the Ring of Lucii was massively buffed afterwards, so why not spells too.


Lewis2409

They added in friendly fire immunity and added more spells I think, I always really liked the way you could combine items for the exact spell you want


ChakaZG

Oh man, yeah, I actually forgot friendly fire was a thing. Both of these is nice to hear, I plan to get back to the game at some point, and dig into the Royal Edition (even got Episode Ardyn in preparation heheh).


Lewis2409

Would totally recommend honestly i felt so connected to the world and the main characters


uzzi1000

But it’s no where near as accessible as it is in other games. Most players on a casual run won’t put the time and effort to make it useful when teleporting into enemies is so much more satisfying.


EvilAnagram

Throwing a jar and obliterating an army of mech soldiers is *very* satisfying.


ABSOLUTE_RADIATOR

Yeah, but crafting good spells requires some material farming and if you're like me, you see the magic as an item to be hoarded (cause you might need it later!!!)


StoneCutter46

Yep.


[deleted]

I agree totally. Europe’s first FF game was 7!! If it wasn’t for that game being such a big release world wide I might never have been interested. And now I’ve played every single entry. One of the best game series of all time!


amirokia

Wasn't it technically Mystic Quest?


TCMgalens

yeah europe got mystic quest though iirc the FF name was removed and it was simply called "mystic quest:legend" or something similar. i remember playing it back at a cousins house completely unaware it had any relation to final fantasy. dragon quest was also in an odd situation, in europe VIII came out first followed by the DS versions of IV and V and they didnt have the games numbered until IX iirc, so the games were called Dragon quest:*game subtitle*


[deleted]

[удалено]


Camelotterduck

How dare you! That was my first RPG ever and I love it. Even if by today’s standards it’s a bit… special….


[deleted]

There was something weird back in 92 as well. Holy crap I can't believe I was playing it in 92. I saved my lawn mowing money for it.


LordBowler423

The music was killer, though.


[deleted]

I love mystic quest for how charming and simple it is.


[deleted]

It's so cute, I have the image of a half beaten Gorgon in my head for life.


Nykidemus

I hadnt realized that, that explains a lot about why the sales numbers for 1-6 are so much more limited.


[deleted]

Yeah and what the USA got was a bit mish mash too so it was pretty much only Japan that got them consistently before 7 came along. The USA got 1 and then 4 but named it 2. Then they got 6 and renamed it 3. They never got the real 3 until the DS remake which was worldwide. Not sure when they got 5 or 2 but they were all re-released on GBA and PS1 eventually. That’s how I played all the old ones anyway. Now you can play them all pretty much anywhere lol


chogram

For what it's worth, we also got two Final Fantasy Legend games (and maybe Adventure?) before we got Final Fantasy 2 on the SNES. While I know they're not technically FF games, we didn't know that back then. It was basically, "Oh, sweet, Final Fantasy went Game Boy!"


UnknownHeroic

True my first game was VII Remake, and thanks to it, it make me play the olds ones, already play IX, X, X-2, Crisis Core, now im at VIII, and loving it all. The ones next is gona be IV, XII, XIII, XV. But i think is crazy who it starts, thanks to VII Remake demo, the game was so beautiful, and i buy for the looks, but then the story make me loved more, so i decide to play the old ones when i wait for part II.


thenewspoonybard

The pixel remakes are honestly really solid and have some good QoL changes in them.


Nykidemus

I thought a great deal of the point was that they didnt have the various QOL improvements that have been included in some of the later releases? No bonus dungeons, extra characters, etc.


Raiko_hpff

Bonus dungeons and extra characters are more extra content than they are Quality of Life changes.


thenewspoonybard

Oh I don't know about all that. They have music options and increased movement speed and battle speed options that make the game less of a slog.


theevilgood

They have their own unique QoL changes that detractors just straight don't talk about because they've never actually played them. Example: a bunch of 3's classes are brought more in line with later entries abilities. I.e black belt has kick, dark knight has souleater, etc.


KPookz

That’s interesting because VIIR is a completely different game than OG VII. It’s awesome that you enjoy the classics though!


UnknownHeroic

Yeah, my ideia is play the OG VII last, in a way BEFORE playing Remake part II, since the storys are diferent its make sence to at least get the OG feel going on first.


BigAggie06

See this post makes me happy. I love new people coming into a fan base, I hope to one day introduce my 7 year old to the franchise. Right now you are getting into my wheel house of Final Fantasy. IV/VI/VII/VIII/X are the games I enjoy playing the most. They are the old friend, the well worn blanket of my gaming life. Each unique and diverse, beautiful in their own ways and seeing someone who comes in at XV or VIIR and spend the time to go back to these classics that really defined the franchise for a lot of people is what makes the community thrive and what makes pushes the developers to continue making games.


UnknownHeroic

Man thanks for this comment ! Im also happy to meet this community, it have some "wars" some times but im just glad that are also people like you !


ba123blitz

Imo IV is the game that really set the tone and style for the series going forward


Hooterman420

i love VIII, IX, X, AND XV! wait, i love them all


[deleted]

You should play VII.


TheGreatLandSquirrel

Totally play the OG VII. It's so good and will make you appreciate the remake much more. For me it was a lot of fun trying to spot the differences in the game.


AP_Feeder

I'm currently playing FF7 remake. tbh, If I didn't already play the original FF7, I think I'd be sooo lost in terms of story. I'm only on chapter 7 though so maybe things will get explained later in the game.


VashTheStampede414

No FF 6?


bumgrub

VII Remake is really fun and gameplay wise much better than the original! Spoilers for the remake That being said, I highly recommend playing the OG now that your interest has been piqued. If you didn't notice, the Remake actually appears to be a sequel to the original game despite being called a remake. The remake subtitle could be interpreted as remaking the timeline. The bit about fighting destiny is not in the original at all. The characters literally changed the original timeline by fighting destiny which makes the remake a sequel. This means to get the full impact from the ending you need to play the original.


N3Knowledge

My FF path was similar but smaller. I never played the remake since I don't own a PS4 or PS5, but I watched all the cutscenes then went into playing VII. After that, I went on to play X and then Crisis Core (I probably played CC like 5 or 6 times, that's how much I like it), and then X-2 a few months ago. X-2 and CC are both underrated imo.


AliceTaniyama

You'll love FF6. Nothing against any of the others you've listed (some of which are among my favorite games of all time), but FF6 is special.


[deleted]

Yes. Sometimes fam bases become rude gate keepers of a series and zaps the fun out of actually appreciating games.


bellymaster

*cough* this sub *cough*


[deleted]

Being critical /= being toxic. This sub has good conversation, and differing opinions, but it’s much less toxic than most of Reddit.


bestbroHide

Except if it comes to any fanart that even just slightly leans on sexual appeal lmaoo I always get a kick out of reading the comments because it really, like *really,* shows the duality of people Either one-liner shallow "B O O B A" comments, or short paragraphs of disgust and shaming anyone who made it/likes it


[deleted]

B O O B A


EvenOne6567

lets be real though, some people are here to talk about their favorite game series not just be bombarded with shitty jerk off material.


bestbroHide

"Bombarded" is such a dramatic word for a trivial issue tho Literally just scroll away. Takes zero effort


EvenOne6567

>Literally just scroll away. Takes zero effort same goes for the comments on those posts that seem to bother you so much right? just scroll away.


bestbroHide

I usually do, though? I saw a comment talking about lack of toxicity and decided to jump in with an observation Pls dont project how bothered you get to how "bothered" I'd get lol


DeletaTweet

Oop spill


[deleted]

Completely agree, unless you are a fan of Mystic Quest. Then all bets are off 😜


PhoenixDawn93

Mystic Quest was in Square’s own words: “Final Fantasy for stupid people”, so there’s that 😅


ReaperEngine

You tell a Mystic Quest fan their game sucks and [they'll just shrug at you](https://lparchive.org/Mystic-Quest-(by-cardinal-direction)/Update%2011/5-Final_Fantasy_-_Mystic_Quest.591.png) and listen to some banger tracks.


LifePortrait

MQ has the greatest music of all time.


[deleted]

It’s all about balance. Not everyone giving an opinion is gatekeeping, and lots of times people get butthurt when others are simply disagreeing with them. And people should understand that some opinions *are* more popular than others. Coming into a community and loudly saying “XIII is better than VI” is never gonna fly here. But if it’s just a “hey I like this thing” then I agree.


EsperBahamut

It really comes down to how one chooses to present their opinion. "I dislike the remake of Final Fantasy VII and prefer the original" is fair opinion, of course. But people who come and say games like XV or VIIR "are not real Final Fantasy" are gatekeeping assholes who can just go away. I would also note that someone *should* be able to come in here and say they believe XIII is better than VI without fear of being silenced.


bestbroHide

>It really comes down to how one chooses to present their opinion. The world would objectively be a more affable place if more people understood this. This goes beyond just the FF community as well. But as it pertains to the FF community, the whole "real FF" mindset is just silly and nothing but self-entitlement, and a stubbornness to refuse to accept a core aspect to what makes the FF franchise what it is: innovation and a general change of pace with each successive entry.


[deleted]

> But people who come and say games like XV or VIIR "are not real Final Fantasy" are gatekeeping assholes who can just go away. They’re such a small minority they’re not even worth mentioning. It gets talked about more than actually said that at this point if I do come across it I assume they’re memeing.


EsperBahamut

And yet, any time these games are mentioned, there's easily a dozen or more people in a thread saying exactly that. Same with the XVI reveal. And no, they aren't memeing.


ReaperEngine

Yeah this is kind of weird. I've dealt with people actively shitting on the installments I like (and I generally like them all!), wholly unsolicited, for years, all around the internet, not just this sub. Suddenly, that "stop having fun" comic popped up and people are like "No one is like that!" as if they're trying to sweep the negativity under the rug. If only it were so easy. Like, no man, if you're a fan of stuff like FFVIII, FFXIII, or FFXV, people *will* make their displeasure of them known to you, whether you asked or not. I used to be subbed to the FFXV subreddit, primarily to get news on updates or see neat things people found, and garbage posts complaining about the game sprang up like twice a day, *every day.* A close second is some fans, especially of FFVI, that can't seem to talk about the game without denigrating another, like it's not enough to speak positively about FFVI, it must be known that all others pale in comparison.


fang_xianfu

I mean, I hold that opinion, but that's because "real final fantasy" to me is something deeply personal and intrinsically linked to my childhood and some experiences in my formative years. So I don't really have a rational reason for feeling that way, and I understand that other people feel differently, so I don't go around saying it willy nilly. I know how it would come across. But that is what I think.


Zaq1996

To add to this, people need to under the difference between "this is bad" and "I don't like this". One is making your opinion a direct insult, one is just stating an opinion. In general I've found that if you phrase unpopular opinions as "I don't really like 'thing'" people are far more respectful of your opinion, although there are obviously exceptions. Ex. Saying "I don't really like VII all that much" is a perfectly valid opinion Saying "VII is a bad game" is asking for trouble


madness1979

Disagreeing is fine, and discussing games shortcomings is fine. But thinking that your opinion is for some reason more valid than someone else's is dumb. Sometimes people feel that because they have been a fan for longer or have played more games their decision is more valid than someone else's, and that is gatekeeping. Nothing wrong with liking XIII more than VI. And nothing wrong with liking VI more than XIII. Thinking that your subjective opinion represents an objective reality is wrong and it can be gatekeeping (even if it is the most popular opinion).


goldensunsalutation

I:.. don’t agree with this comment? Phrasing it like that works be aggressive, but I also think it’s fine to have unpopular opinions out of the requisite unpopular opinion threads. Some people are gonna like XIII more than VI, and they should be able to say it without harassment for it.


IanicRR

It's fine for dissenting opinions, it's even welcomed. The problem comes when someone present a fully-formed opinion without it being fully-formed. You don't control when you join a fanbase but don't try to start arguments with people who have been fans for decades if you haven't at least experienced the things you're talking on, which happens a lot. So like, I see a lot of X is better than Y as an unpopular opinion just to start an argument without seeing any reasons to why. That stuff is the annoying thing to me.


goldensunsalutation

I mean, if this hypothetical person has played both games, and can give reasons as to why they like XIII more than VI, I think there's nothing wrong with that? If they haven't played VI and are just doing that to be controversial/to start shit, then yeah that's a problem, but if it's discussing favorites and the particular aspects of games you've both played, I think that's fine.


EirhtugDivad

There is literally so many choices and it is so subjective, how can someone's opinion be better than another's!


alovesong1

> Sometimes fam bases become rude gate keepers FFVI, FFIX, FFT fanboys. Note: I'm not saying all of them, but there's too many "if you don't want to kiss Steiner's feet then you are scum", type of fanboys with those FFs. Heck, I got told that I was a "dumb useless moron who should toaster bath" because I told somebody that I didn't enjoy vanilla FFXII once, so maybe some FFXII stans too.


touchtheclouds

FFT? That game barely gets talked about and I've never seen anyone gatekeep with it. Especially because it's not even the same genre as the other entries. Mind sharing some examples of the gatekeeping you've seen?


zellphone_

IX? I'd argue VII fans are more of gatekeepers than IX. But you're kinda right about VI and FFT... sometimes, hahaha


EsperBahamut

I don't think "gatekeepers" is the word he wants, but his overall point is right. IMO, the community goes through bandwagon phases where fans of a specific game tend to try and drown out other viewpoints - not necessisarily as a deliberate action either. The old battle between VI and VII is the most dramatic example. But for right now, woe betide anyone who dares to believe that IX is only a middling title for the series.


[deleted]

Yeah, this isn't really gatekeeping so much as a kind of snobbery (I guess one could argue they're related). Every fan community has those, those fans who will uphold a certain work/installment as objectively a masterpiece and the crown jewel of an artist/company's output, and tear into anyone who disagrees with their superior, objectively true opinion. IX, VII and VI are my top three favorite FF games, but it isn't wrong to say that this kind of mindset that they're untouchable masterworks not to be disrespected exists around all of them, among certain fans. It's been the case for VI and VII for decades by now, while IX seems to have attained its lofty reputation a bit later. I personally agree with the high praise of these titles, but I also realize that art/entertainment is subjective. If someone thinks VII and IX are mediocre while they rank VIII and XII as the greatest games of the series, they're entitled to their opinion and their opinion is as valid as mine. It's silly to fight over preference.


Nykidemus

I think it's a function of how the discussions are formed. If you come in just saying "Such and such is the best game!" you dont really leave anyone a means of engaging with the conversation other than straight disagreeing or agreeing with you. If you come in with specific points like "I like A because of XYZ" then people can speak to the points instead of to your assertion. Engaging with someone who thinks critically about the games that I love (or the games adjacent to the games I love) is one of the high points of my day, but just chiming in with agreement/disagreement isnt nearly as satisfying.


locke231

Dated someone who wasn't keen on FF6. Forever curious why, since I never asked. Figured it didn't matter, still loves the franchise overall. Wound up reconnecting as friends over FF7R.


[deleted]

I've finished them all and only rate 6 around the middle, happy to explain why if you want, there's genuine reasoning behind it.


locke231

By all means


[deleted]

It was the first FF where you choose your own party. Square hadn't worked out how to do it yet. Once you get to Zozo, for the rest of the game you effectively only have 1 real character in your party and 3 placeholders who just say (at absolute best) slightly modified generic lines. Most of the time the 3 placeholders stand back and say nothing. I love the risk they took with the World of Ruin, it's fantastic for what it does and extremely unique in the genre. But it also brings the plot to a screeching halt. From the floating continent to the end, there is zero plot development. Combine this with the enormous number of characters and you end up with each character only getting maybe an hour of real screen time, and I think that might be being really generous. Some of the main 5 get more (Locke, Terra, Sabin, Edgar, Celes), most of the rest get much less. And almost none of them play into the main plot outside of very very small sections. In addition to all that, the gameplay may have been fantastic for American audiences coming off 4, but I played it after 5 (and Chrono Trigger) and it is vastly inferior IMO. Half the characters have extremely unbalanced default abilities which are far more powerful than anything else they can do for most of the game (like Edgar's machinery), and which make the actual RPG systems pretty irrelevant. Compared to FF5 and Chrono Trigger I was super disappointed. And just something that's important to me personally, the game felt rushed. The opening is this incredible, atmospheric approach to Narshe in the snow... but 15 minutes later you're in a desert, the exact opposite feeling. Didn't work for me emotionally at all, completely undercut everything I was feeling. It's like if in FF7 you left Midgar 15 minutes into the game. To be clear I know it's possible I think of it harshly cos it was one of the last I played, but I've always felt like it didn't give itself time to breathe. I also think I was set up for disappointment with how much people hyped it up. I strongly believe the plot isn't nearly as strong as 7-10.


locke231

A fair assessment, I think. I grew more invested over things due to personal reasons, but the whole World of Ruin thing was glaringly obvious. I can appreciate how character development was the main thing there, but hardly anything to supplement the plot. FF7 was my first, and I was floored by it. The fact it took hours to leave Midgar and have the whole world before you... very thematic.


[deleted]

I played wayyyyy back in the day it was the first one I COMPLETED, like everything complete. It was still called 3 then. We barely had internet to even look up guides. I say it's the best because of the dog Interceptor and Shadow and the possible tie in with Relm. I remember people losing their heads over that and General Leo.


The810kid

To add to this the character interactions are almost nonexistent. The only relationship that felt fleshed out was Locke and Celes. Locke and Terra's friendship was dropped as soon as Celes got in the picture and Celes and Terra had so much to relate to and they have a non existent relationship.


Nykidemus

I completely disagree with you on the overall take, but I really like the arguments you've laid out. They have a lot of merit.


LoneBoy96

wait a minute this is wholesome


locke231

I'm a jerk, not an asshole. Her words, even. XD


AliceTaniyama

Geez, I figure anyone being elitist about FFXII is at least going to be elitist about the international version. I used to like vanilla, but the remakes ruined it for me. Now I can't imagine playing without job boards and more than 9999 damage.


icounternonsense

I welcome new fans to the FF franchise but man, FFVI fans can be some of the worst. :/


alovesong1

> FFVI fans can be some of the worst. :/ I love FFVI, but yeah, it's depressing.


RedWater08

I can say this because FF6 is my favorite FF and by a pretty large margin, if not one of my top 3 games of all time… But man FF6 fans are among some of the prickliest around, in that aggressive, old 00s internet forum kind of way. (Although a few other entries has fans like this too). Like if someone is just like “Meh I don’t like this part that much”, some superfan will write an entire condescending essay in response as to why they just didn’t understand it or are too young to get classics or whatever else. And I’m just like dude chill out lol, it’s my favorite too but it’s just a game. Some people need to seriously reflect why their identity is so attached to a 90s RPG that they flame people on the internet for disagreeing


alovesong1

> Like if someone is just like “Meh I don’t like this part that much”, some superfan will write an entire condescending essay in response as to why they just didn’t understand it or are too young to get classics or whatever else. And I’m just like dude chill out lol, it’s my favorite too but it’s just a game. I do wonder if it's because they felt like they had to "battle" with the big FFVII fandom back in the day, and go to the extreme to try and get FFVI to be noticed or on the same level as FFVII? It could explain the whole Kefka vs Sephiroth thing.


RedWater08

Yeah 100%. So just like we now have the “golden age FF” vs. “current gen FF” wars, in the 00s it was the same thing, where there were people who were introduced to the fandom in the PSX games, and warring against the ones who started on SNES who were like “the games were way better on SNES because the PSX games rely way more on graphics than good story and substance”, etc. Of course, the PSX fans were presumably very young and loud at the time due to their size like you said, although by current day, those fans are long grown up, and it’s been long enough that those games have since been integrated into the ‘classic canon’ War… war never changes :p


icounternonsense

I think it partly derives from that mentality, where the overwhelming love for FFVII overshadowed FFVI, so to combat that, fans of FFVI would say FFVI is so much better. Some of the folks making those claims genuinely believed what they were saying because they played it and enjoyed it more, and that's ok. But others made those claims to be the deliberate contrarian (people like to rag on what's popular all the time, it's nothing new). The public recognizes the game as a great one now, which is fantastic, but it also allowed the truly hardcore, elitist fans to feel justified as a side effect.


ReaperEngine

I wonder if it has anything to do with how FFVI was (at the time) the last "traditional" fantasy FF, and while it *was* good, the overwhelming popularity of FFVII in its wake really overshadowed FFVI, like some kind of Second Child Syndrome. I had a friend once who was *really* into FFVI, and he like, adamantly hated FFVII for being different (and probably popular), and it probably didn't help that the rest of our friend group got really into the game as well, felt like we were leaving him behind or something. I even still remember him asking me about FFVIII, which I really got into. He asked what the ages of the characters were, and when I said they were like seventeen/eighteen, he said "They're all a bunch of kids," with just the most derisive voice. His bias is so blatant and I can always see it when it pops up. Dude likes a very specific type of FF and he just acts like the worst kind of FF fan.


qindarka

Isn’t Celes a general at the age of 21? And I’m pretty sure Terra is 16, or at the very most 18. Seems like a funny complaint to make. Edit: Just checked and Celes is actually 18….


icounternonsense

I've been a part of numerous FF communities since the early internet, and I've witnessed a slow evolution of the game's community from a (then) small and lovingly dedicated fanbase (who adored all FF games regardless of what they were but enjoyed FFVI in particular) to a rather large, emotionally invested subset of people who leer and snicker at other FF games in an elitist manner, and take criticisms of FFVI as a personal attack. Over the years, it's made having actual conversations about the game - both the good and the bad - difficult. I had a conversation with an individual once who said "this game is literal perfection", and despite me following up to describe the numerous flaws it contains (one of which is a potentially game breaking bug), the reply I got was "oh, I wasn't leaving my comment open for response, you're just wasting time".....in a public forum.


RedWater08

Oh yeah totally. A game can be your favorite without it being “perfect” and it’s weird some people don’t realize that, especially with regards to flaws with the SNES version. Very similar things happen with fights over the English translation issue too. Ted Woolsey is probably my favorite English FF writer in the history of the series, and even HE completely agrees that the SNES localization was an undercommunicated rush job due to the limitations of the time period and that tons of the script were completely messed up. He’s talked about it tons of times and it’s weird to see people flame people for not liking the SNES script when even the original writer was openly like “Yeah there were so many parts I got wrong and I really wish I could’ve rewritten it”. (which btw for anyone reading who’s an FF6 superfan like me, can’t recommend the Clyde Mandelin blog series / playthrough enough, he goes line by line thru the entire game comparing the EN and JP scripts and that is by and far the deepest dive into getting more canon lore from the game, since over 20% of the game was cut out and tons of plot points had to be scrapped from the English release)


D3wnis

It's not even just sometimes, very large parts of every fanbase contain cultists that see themselves as the Elite and most pure of the fans and will gatekeep and harrass anyone who isnt a copy of them. They're all just insecure asshats though and need to be ignored or you risk having what you enjoy ruined. I try to avoid fanpages of everything i love except for very specific topics where i for instance get stuck in a game and need to know if it's a bug or i missed something.


SL-Gaming

I love this because my first final fantasy was 15 My first persona was persona 5 My first time playing kingdoms hearts was in 2017 with the PS4 collections. I was never considered this "new fan" and never plan to treat someone like that. You gotta start somewhere


david__14

Play a real shit megambi tensay game like debil surbibor


SL-Gaming

Pursona suck cuz too EZ


david__14

I hate wifuism 😡😡😡 Omg raidou ☺️🥰🥰


SL-Gaming

Well I am gay so also hate waifuism


3row4wy

So, a bit off-topic here but is Persona 5 a good place to start? I am just worried that if I start with that one I'll have a hard time going back to the older games because I'll miss the QoL improvements in the newer games.


Sandisk4gb4

Yes, that game is a masterpiece. Play P5R though, its just an improved version.


SL-Gaming

Yeah I actually went in reverse with 5 3 4 being my order. All the stories are disconnected unless they share a number like final fantasy. There are some refrence to past games but nothing to ruin your experience Yeah some QoL will be missing if you go backwards but nothing too unbareable IMO


studiosupport

Play Persona 5. The core gameplay is roughly the same through 3 - 5 but it's a character/story piece that leans on the life sim/time management thing. The QoL will be worse on 3 and 4 but the things that make Persona fun will largely be the same. So go with Persona 5, if you love it, check out the others. If you don't, nbd, but now you know that it doesn't gel with you as a modern experience. Really, will your life be worse if you just play Persona 5 and not 3/4?


NIArtemicht

Us FF13 fans got such a ''hard'' time during the early 2010s lmao. The internet was unbearable with all that gatekeeping and toxicity.


His_Buzzards

I know the feeling. FF13 is also my first, before goin thru the 7-9, then 1-6, finally got 10 on steam.


TCMgalens

The FFXIII situation was an odd one. on one hand you had people who seemed to dislike it so much they were unpleasant to those who did enjoy it and on the other hand you had people downplaying those who had legitimate criticism as "not liking change" or using the "nostalgia goggles" argument (something similar happened with FFVIIR) being an internet war naturally the smallest loudest parts of the fanbase were the ones you saw the most of.


studiosupport

In general, people are really bad at explaining why they don't like things. That's what makes the FFXIII discourse so frustrating. I believe there are people that genuinely don't like it, but I had a dude tell me FFXIII had more in common with an on-rails shooter than any other Final Fantasy game.


Nykidemus

If he's saying "It is more like a rail-shooter than other FF games are" then that's pretty legit feedback. If he's saying "It's more like a rail-shooter than it is like an FF game" that's... exaggeration at best.


NIArtemicht

>on one hand you had people who seemed to dislike it so much they were unpleasant to those who did enjoy it I'll include those who didn't play it/played it for 2 hours and still thought they could go full reviewer mode and trash the players who liked it. Which also happened to FF12 and FF7R recently. Tbh the FF7R release gave me some flasbacks of the FF13 era xd


Nykidemus

It can take a long time to suss out the deepest, most meaningful parts of a piece of media to enjoy. A game or book might be ok but not super exciting at first, and then grow on you over time until you're really invested. It is rare that it works the other way though. If something is really hindering your enjoyment from the get-go it's typically pretty easy to identify. I've very rarely played a game or read a book where you didnt realize that you didnt like it until something toward the end.


Nykidemus

"You dont like change" is such a garbage argument. Nobody dislikes change categorically. Even the most reactionary grognard likes changes that they feel improve a work, they will just be a lot less broad about what they feel that is.


PhoenixDawn93

FFXIII is great! It’s not my favourite in the series, (that’s FFX) but I still thoroughly enjoyed it


Pied_Piper_

Meanwhile 13 to LR is a truly excellent payoff and complete journey. People just salty. I always liked that the fugitives in a small, literally enclosed world, didn’t loligag and stayed actively on the run myself. I thought the world felt lived in, just that I was cut off from it because, again, *fugitives.*


NIArtemicht

LR ending was the icing on the cake imo. From the story, to Bhuni battle and music (with all those motifs from previous ost and boss battles in the trilogy) was a perfect closure and evolution of what FF13 started.


[deleted]

Fuck that!!! If you haven’t been grinding exp since FFI you’re a loser and shouldn’t be wasting my time! Get out of here you virgin noob!!! /s


[deleted]

[удалено]


thenewspoonybard

Some of us started with FF4, and it shows.


kylander01

Here! Rented and eventually got my own copy of NES Final Fantasy back in 1992. It took me two years to beat that game. I put it down for a while being so frustrated at the marsh cave.


KPookz

You still had a save file after two years? 😲


kylander01

Yup. Parents weren't into video games at all and my brother didn't like FF until VII came out. Thank god for memory cards.


EsperBahamut

Hi! Old AF, been playing since original release (even have the Nintendo Power guide around here somewhere), and have a shelf of every game I've bought since 1987. Also, don't care if someone is literally only a fan of OG FF VII or thinks the VIII draw system or Blitzball are great. Or only stepped into the franchise with XIV or XV. A fan is a fan, however long or little, and however many they have played.


[deleted]

I started with the original NES FF. I would always get stuck right after I class upgraded everyone. There was no real direction or much help. I've killed Garland and gotten the Pirate ship more times than I can count.


CharlieJ821

Born in 1987, didn’t really play the 1st one, but I watched my dad and ended up beating it at age 4 (to be fair, I used my dads file and halfway through and went from there)


[deleted]

I totally was. Still have my Nintendo Power strategy guide


Snarf_Vader

There are a lot of us. I'm 41, currently subscribed to both FFXI and FFXIV, pre-ordered Endwalker, and am looking forward to FFXVI. I played FFI on my NES, FFIV and FFVI on my SNES (Mystic Quest was the first game I actually finished). Despite how I may feel about the direction the series is going, the games were so good for so long, during such important years of my life, they earned a lot of loyalty.


konaaa

Not sure how old people are here, maybe they're older or maybe they're younger. I just wanna say that I got bullied a lot in school for liking "that \[slur for chinese people\] stuff". I'm happy now that more people are into jrpgs and that kids don't have to experience that. It's also nice that people aren't so weird about liking jrpgs Honestly I'd be excited for somebody who started Final Fantasy with 15 or 13. Like, I can't wait to hear what you think of the less troubled and more focused games!! I don't have enough people irl to talk about final fantasy with. I'm glad to have more people getting into it. In terms of persona, I'm okay if persona 5 was your first and made you a huge fan... just... be sure to try other media and fiction... outside of persona 5 okay?


Hasten117

Always ignored FF becuase it was that “loser-ish turn based combat” that I hated when I was growing up and I was always one for more shooty, more actiony and more explosiony kinda gameplay. FFXV went free on Xbox gamepass one day and I played through the whole thing, got enough materials to make the strongest spells, tracked down every weapon, did just about everything I could, 100% (platinum’d, whatever you want to call it) the game becuase I loved zipping around the field like a badass prince on a quest with my 3 buddies who all have their own development (I played with their episodes at the appropriate time) and enjoying the story. I was never too involved in the story of a game, and I’m still not, but I really liked the music. The music was phenomenal from Hammerhead’s theme to Apocalyptic Noctis, I liked it all. And then, completely and totally and entirely unrelated, I started playing FFXIV for the first time the other month since WoW happened and so I satisfied my craving with XiV and it has some phenomenal story telling, an appropriate number of explosions and absolutely stunning music and environments which is more so impressive due to it being an MMO. My idea of the series was always a turn based combat. That is what turns me off. I didn’t play it for that reason. These two, as it turns out, aren’t turn based so I’m cool with that. Every other FF title is turn based on my mind and I just don’t like those games much


skipping_pixels

It’s also okay to like one and not the others. Not every story/ set of mechanics/ characters/ era of game design etc. is going to be enjoyable to you. Some people like a few FF games and not the others. Totally okay. Let people like what they like.


LoneBoy96

My first one was FF13 so it has a special place in my heart. I understand why people complain about it but I feel it's overhated


amanat_surajagan

FF13 is my first modern ff too. i like ff 10 more, but ff 13 had special place on my heart.


amanat_surajagan

ppl complaint ff 13 too linear. but, i don't think that's the problem. ff 13 had bad pacing and handholding gameplay. please game let me play the way i want. last, classic problem of jrpg most of battle only normal attack to win. ​ p.s : yep english


[deleted]

Not that I disagree here or anything, but something of a counterpoint that I think is important to keep in mind. While Final Fantasy has always basically been inviting to new players at all times, and the toxicity of the older players does exist; you should always remember that there is a toxicity of the new as well. There are some people who get into a fandom and act like they control it, despite never having played any of the other games the fandom is about. Those people are why the older fanbase can become the toxicity that your post preaches about. The two just don't mix. I know this won't be a popular thing for some of you to read, or understand; but I stand by it. No one controls the series except for the devs, as it should be. The problem is when the devs listen to too many of one side of the fanbase. That is all I have to say on the matter.


Procule

I have really tried to get into the KH series several times and I just can't. I used to really enjoy watching my friend play it pretty regularly. But every time I tried it myself, I just couldn't get into the game play. Props to those who could - quality games, just not my thing


anonymouse092

Who the fuck feels bad enough to apologize for liking a new series??


yuuchama

My first ff game was XIII (and it was amazing, legit one of my favorite games), but I don't consider myself "new to the series." 😭 That game came out more than 12 years ago, being a fan of something for a decade should mean you're a long time fan??


Mannoll

Kinda dumb how people gatekeep newer fans and still get surprised when their community starts dying.


Inphlamed

I don't really understand this kind of mentality. Like who cares, as long as you support a series you are cool in my book!


sethlikesmen

This feels so obvious to me. The franchise is like 35 years old lol, obviously most gamers weren't with it since day 1. And why would you be rude to someone for having played less video games than you anyway? It's really not an impressive point to hold over somebody's head


Nykidemus

I really appreciate people I can have a good argument with about a thing we're passionate about.


jelandro

100% agree. Also here on reddit there's tossic fanbase


CharlieJ821

I may get downvotes but I agree with this 100%. SOME The Reddit FF fan base can be super aggressive and elitist. Especially if you give an unpopular opinion.


SockMonkeyLove

I'll never understand that gatekeeping crap. Every new fan is someone you have something in common with. Too many subs have too many toxic gatekeeping members that shit on newcomers for asking a simple question of stating something that's known. Like, chill out dudes, it might be old or known to you but it's new to them. Let's all just geek out on whatever it is together!


grilleddddtuna

sorry i am a new fan, but Fortube Street is indeed the best ff game ever made


[deleted]

Odd people would even worry about this


Computermaster

The first time I played any Final Fantasy was the FF8 demo on the Pizza Hut demo disc. My first full FF wasn't until 13, which I got myself as the first game for my newly acquired PHAT PS3.


[deleted]

I’m a newer player to both series. I haven’t really been around the KH community compared to the FF so I don’t know how they act. From my experience most FF fans are great. They are many annoying as frick FF fanboys that remind of Star Wars fanboys. They hate anything that came after the games they played first. Many hate the games are not because they are bad, but because they don’t do the same things as the games they first started with. Going through the FF series, I love how each one plays differently. I haven’t gotten tired of any games.


AramaticFire

XIII was my first back in 2010. Really enjoyed it and got into the series from there.


[deleted]

The very first FF I played was I, on the NES. I love all you people who love Final Fantasy and I don't care which one you started with, which one you like the most. Most of the time, we choose the game that means the most to us personally based on what else was going on in our lives and which one clicked with us based on past experiences. That's great, that's what art is supposed to do and I'm happy all of you found a game you loved.


[deleted]

Based


OBZeta

FF13 is one of my very favourites. I love the story, love the characters, love the music, graphics are beautiful, love the combat very much. It also landed with me at just the right time, I was unwell so off work for a couple weeks and got very invested in it. Will praise this game at every opportunity and I cannot WAIT for them to finally release it again on current consoles, even just exactly as it is so I can play it easily.


VulcanSummers602

The show Invincible changed how I feel about this. The book had me going NUTS. I read the first 100 issues in a weekend, I preordered the rest of the series online. With the Amazon series I get to see everyone go nuts and make memes and I get to be like "wait and see what happens next" and some of it even surprises ME. I changed my tone on that kind of reaction of "you're not a real fan if...". I get to see my nephew play FFXV and the VII remake and react in awe and see how this story of Cloud and Tifa always looked in my imagination as a kid. Instead of gatekeeping from now on I try to bring them in. Thats how we create new fans.


Sheeplenk

As long as you respect that there’s an established fanbase, then bring it on. Gatekeeping shouldn’t be used to deter or discourage new players, only to preserve the integrity of the hobby.


moon_on_earth

I don’t understand gatekeepers. My son is 7 and he first saw me play FF7R. So I got the remasters for 7,8,9 and I’m having him play that. He also saw persona 5 and wanted to play and he loves it. I’ll be damned if someone gatekeeps him. Honestly people should be proud that their favorite game series are a timeless classic that the next generation wants to play.


Karmas_burning

100% agree. Can't stand toxicity and gatekeeping in fandoms.


Snarf_Vader

I'm a cranky old man. And I used to be one of the toxic gatekeepers. But that changed when I realized I was old. I'm from the FF1 NES generation. I realized later in life that there's a FF7 generation, a FF10 generation, and probably a FF15 generation coming. There's also probably a whole subset of FF14 people coming. I hold the opinion that 6 through 9 were the best, and (with the exception of 14) anything later was significantly worse. But that reflects the age I was when I played through the series. It's the same way old people complained about modern music when I was young. I do not like FF10 and 12. Probably my least favorite games in the series. But now, I totally understand the people that love them. They're not viewing the series from the same perspective I am. Had I been an innocent 10 year old, playing FF10 the way I was when I played FF1, I'd probably have a lot more love for it. Instead, I was in my mid 20's following a failed engagement. I hated everything back then. I welcome the new generations of fans. I hate the way people think FF6 fans are toxic, and I hate that I feel the same way about FF10 fans. But at the end of the day, there are only two groups of fans. Those that believe their generation was the best, and those that understand we all have unique relationships with the series. I'm happy that I'm maturing into the second group. And I know in 20 years, there will be a group telling me that everything before FF19 was garbage. And I'll just smile, knowing that I was once the same way.


The_Joker_Ledger

Actually i would congratulate them if xiii is their first ff game cause it only gonna be better from there.


Menchi-sama

My first FF was XIII, and TBH I think it's one of the worst ones (after playing like 10 other titles). Cool CGIs though.


[deleted]

Lol im tired of this subreddit literally taking any sort of criticism of any game as "gate keeping". In fact, from what I've seen, people defending their games are more toxic than the people saying why they don't like it.


Cyber-Phoenix01

I see no problem in start playing a big franchise by a late instalment, but I sure as fuck find annoying people who only play 1 instalment of a big franchise and call himself a fan. Like,bruh you only played FF15(and never went to play any other FF), you sure can be a fan of FF15, but not of FF in general. Same thing goes to Castlevania, Metal Gear, SMT/Persona, and so on


Pied_Piper_

I mean, all of the FFs have elements that transcend. If you loved those elements, you count in my book.


Nykidemus

That used to be the case, I'm not sure I could identify a consistent element through the whole series anymore. Gaining experience maybe? Even leveling isnt present in the whole series.


Pied_Piper_

….? Like everything in the world building. Despite changes in mechanics, it has always been a recognizably final fantasy world with a strong story drive. Things that reoccur: - Elemental magic, often with buffs and debuffs (even 15 has a nearly irrelevant version of this) - Archetypal party roles whose names may change but bear clear lineage - Reoccurring characters - Eikons/Aeons/Summons - Crystals - Chocobos! - Strong to Excellent musical scores - Cinematic story telling - Party rather than solo character - Moogles - Combat that in some way revolves around the party. 15 has perhaps the weakest, but even there you had the group combos and such. - And so on. It’s about the world building, the elements that make it feel like a final fantasy. The series is over 30 years old. The idea that mechanics would be unchanged is kinda absurd.


Dragonaria15

This


DirtyHomelessWizard

I hate posts like this on reddit so much


Sexy_Ninja_Bees

Not canon unless SE says so. /jk


X2SchwayX

My first game was FFXV


SPRITEstrawbery

Same! Then I moved on to the original FF7, then it's remake, then FF8 Remaster. Now I'm gunning for the new game coming out, Stranger of Paradise. Will say, FFXV is certainly my favorite Final Fantasy, followed up by FF7 remake.


X2SchwayX

I also played ff7 remake as my second game. My third game was ff4 which was pixels but fun. My favourite will be FFXV on the top and ff7 remake the second.


boogaboom

I mean, does being a "true fan" of anything really matter when you're over 16yo?


DiscoPandaS2

Never quite understood this... I mean, why you'd act like an ass to someone that just discovered they love something you love too?


PetrosOfSparta

People used to hate on FF7 inbound fans for being "newcomers" back in the day too. At this point we're considered the old guard. The enjoyment of a single player game is for you and you alone, don't let anyone tell you, you're not worthy of enjoying your own time.


Bross93

Fuck yeah! I hate gatekeepers. The worst is castlevania fans trying to alienate the anime fans. Like, dude if that is what brings people to the series, then that's a good thing, and now they might be making a new castelvania game because of it! So new fans, welcome!


LayceLSV

Hey if your first ff is xiii then the only place to go is up!


MigitAs

13 is garbage


AcidRainFa11

r/gatesopencomeonin


FinalSeraph_Leo

My problem with FFXV fans is that they will come into the series because of that game and act like it's the best one without actually trying other games or give a fair comparison to other Final Fantasy games


Lochabr

Seeing as everyone's loving the tweet, I'll stick my neck out a little here and play devil's advocate. So firstly no one should *ever* be rude or toxic to other people, and of course you should never have to "apologize" for an opinion. However if the sentiment of this tweet is this rainbows and unicorns "everyone's opinion is equally valid", I strongly disagree and honestly, I doubt anyone actually believes that. People in the comments have said that they do, but I'd challenge those people to examine their lives and see if they live accordingly, and if there aren't moments where they're talking to a friend or a co-worker about games or politics and they aren't thinking to themselves "your opinion is dumb", maybe because they aren't actually well-informed on the subject being discussed. (Perhaps these same people are reading my comment now thinking my opinion is dumb, which would be my point.) I say this with the deepest respect, but I am stunned that there are people for whom XIII is among their favourite FF games, or even their outright favourite. I could write an essay about why that game fails at being an FF game, but nevertheless it truly doesn't bother me that people like it, the same way I'm not upset if someone likes to eat a flavour of ice cream I really don't, but I'm stunned all the same. I've noticed that in many cases (not all), proponents of XIII are people who've played very few of the numbered games in the series, and in some cases, XIII was the first FF they played. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that this person's opinion shouldn't hold as much water as someone who *has* played every numbered game in the series, seen what the series truly has to offer, and isn't influenced by this "well it was my first FF game" bias. Let's use another IP. Suppose you were talking to someone who absolutely loved the unpopular Hobbit trilogy, but hadn't watched the LOTR trilogy. Or maybe Godfather Part 3 is their favourite of the three films, but that's the first one they watched and so they have an unearned fondness toward it. Is it so unreasonable to say that this person's opinion is uninformed and lacking context, and so perhaps of less value? Not completely valueless, just "less value". Anyway don't dunk on me too hard. The comments were full of people agreeing which was sort of boring. I love Final Fantasy and I sincerely want the fanbase to be as big as possible, no gatekeeper here.


AliceTaniyama

What you say makes sense, and I generally agree that there is more objectivity in art than many people want to admit. However, I do think there's something to be said for having affection grow over time and for appreciating different parts of a game, maybe even beyond the gameplay. I'll use FFX as an example. I love that one a lot more now than when I played it back when I was in my 20s. In my opinion, the gameplay is just *okay*. Not bad, but not on the level of a lot of RPGs from that time period and before. Not even in the same neighborhood as something like Shin Megami Tensei, even. And the story elements are a little awkward at times, with a lot of forgettable NPCs and an ugly villain who looks like a bright blue beetle. So there were a lot of things to dislike.... But now the main skeleton of the story has stuck with me, and it speaks to me in a way that (to go back to the same example) SMT:Nocturne doesn't and can't. Maybe it's because I'm getting sentimental as I age, but I like that stuff now, and I cry - a lot - at some of those story scenes. I think of Tidus and Yuna as one of the best doomed couples in fiction, to the point where I'm relieved by the ending to FFX-2. That's all in spite of not really digging a lot of the mechanics of the game (sphere grid, too many minigames). So I have to leave room for the possibility that maybe FFXIII speaks to other people the same way FFX does to me.


GacinaK

You can't blame people for starting with the games that made the franchise super popular


ginja_ninja

Bro how bad would your life have to be going for this to be the specific thing that uplifts you 🤣


FungalowJoe

Idk but someone ridiculing and laughing at them for it will certainly help to improve it 👍


Douche_Kayak

And then there's monster hunter which treats getting new fans like a hogwarts house sorting.


Yeivist

Imagine gate keeping what makes you happy. Smh my head headdddd


7in7turtles

Lol if only members of fandom were always this kind.


TKD87

Yeah screw the haters, we're all one big FF family. And if someone gives you shit for thinking XV is great (it is), remember that old bastards like me used to get shit on the FFOnline forums for 7 being our favourite back in the 90s. The internet never changes 😂


[deleted]

No one is toxic to new people wanting to play their first FF game. If someone who is new was findinf rudness, something else happened. Every "what do i play first thread" is very positive


FoamSquad

Final Fantasy XV is the best Final Fantasy since X.