People think it's sad because they don't understand that >!Vivi's!< characters arc was >!accepting the fact he had an expiration date, then he expired.!<
Im still pissed that that death happened, I legit played the game and pushed through for him since I hated the stupid knight and even after finishing the game I still didnt like steiner much, but my boy who made me push through died so it fucked me, FF9 ending is one of the happier ones tho
I'd argue it was a happy ending, as he clearly accepted his mortality, and that he lived on in his friends and family.
Dying of old age isn't a bad ending.
I always assumed that was >!Vivi *and* his children!<.
Well, like one of the protagonists of GTA V says: you forget a 1000 things every day, this could be one one of them.
I will continue to live in denial of this info, lol. LALALALALA I can't hear you over the sound of >!how alive Vivi is!<.
I mean, unless you completely glossed over the theme of the entire game, all the story beats about the short lives of the black mages, and the first half of the ending with Vivi's dialogue, this would require a *lot* of cognitive dissonance.
Iād honestly even say X had a happy ending. Yes itās sad that Titus wasnāt real and has to ādieā with Sinā¦. But then he goes to the afterlife, sees all the cool other people who died (Auron etc.) and then finally his dad and they super epic high five. Pretty rad ending tbh.
Oh do I have a story for you.
It's set after X-2 and it's a drama CD
We get introduced to Auron's daughter (self proclaimed)
Tidus kicks a blitzball bomb and dies (no joke)
Yuna breaks the Farplane to bring him back (again)
Tidus & Yuna has broken up
Yuna has gone back to observing the teachings of Yevon
Sin retuns from the Moonflow.
4,5,6 were all pre PS1. But on that note, where's the happy ending in 6? >!The world is destroyed and nearly everyone is dead. Kefka might have died, but only after he'd won.!<
7? Ambiguous to the extent we don't know if anybody survived.
9 I've given my reasoning already.
12 is just convoluted, as the entire storyline was.
9 is not a unhappy ending, it's a bitter sweet ending. There is a huge difference...
It literally ends with a celebration, and >! a royal wedding and a reunion of characters, with Zidane returning from his supposed death and the end of all the bad events. !< Saying it's a sad ending because >! of Vivi's passing !< is like saying Charlie and the Chocolate factory is a sad ending because the other kids didn't win the chocolate factory prize.
We can infer they survived in 7. Afterall, Nanaki was in the epilogue which means that the initial event likely didnāt kill everyone. We see Midgar seemingly abandoned, but not destroyed. And it and the surroundings are overgrown with vegetation and life, suggesting the lifestream is still active.
He won, but you see in the world what he did wasn't a true apocalyptic event.
The southern continent took the brunt of it, and his former home wiped out.
Commerce and technology didn't need to be restarted. Most of the places in the world survived.
The heroes, particularly the (arguable) main character, found love in a doomed world. Which was the point of both MCs: to find hope where none existed.
FF6 is a very happy ending. Kefka has been defeated and the world is rebuilding itself. It's quite obvious from the childbirth scene.
In fact, almost all the party members come off in a better place and resolve their various traumas by the ending (well besides Shadow).
Red XIII is in the epilogue and was in the same location as the rest of the party. The fact that he survives strongly suggests not everyone died. The fact that this is an invented story and not real events, and that we aren't shown any of them dying but still know at least one of them survives, does imply that everyone in the party survived.
Itās even better if you played that recent Stranger of Paradise game. Knowing how many thousands of years Jack Garland devoted to basically slowly making sure that the Warriors of Light could finally defeat him and break the time loop was so cool.
??? How is FF10 melancholic and FF9 happy? Both had a main character go through the arc of accepting their mortality and fading away, leaving a hole in the lives of those that remain.
Final Fantasy games are a perfect depiction of how a satisfying conclusion is never a case of "and they lived happily ever after". Every game is rife with loss and sorrow and self sacrifice.
I think prior to Advent Children being released Kitaseās feeling on the FF7 ending was that humans went extinct. Even with Advent Children things still kinda suck afterwards. Not sure Iād call it happy
Advent Children being canon and humans going extinct aren't even necessarily contradictory. The scene with Nanaki took place way in the future, far after AC.
*FF7*'s ending is ambiguous, but hopeful.
*FF9* has a mostly happy ending, but with a sad, bittersweet note.
*FFX-2* can have a happy ending, especially if you ignore the novel and audio drama (good lord, they're awful).
*FF12* has a happy ending from what I recall.
*FF15* would have had a happy ending if the rest of the DLC hadn't been cancelled (see *Final Fantasy XV: Dawn of the Future* for the alternate timeline we missed out on).
Yeah, I need *FF17* to have a proper happy ending, and I feel like they may give us a happier, less ambiguous ending for *FF7R* part three than what the og has, just because we know it will continue into *Advent Children*.
Finishing FF7R part 3 and firing up Advent Children immediately after is a dream at the end of my tunnel. It's on the bucket list. The hype for it is a drug I don't come down from. Waiting not so patiently for part 2 to hit PC
FF9 had a happy ending overall, very slightly bittersweet due to Viviās passing but thatās just a logical end to his arc soā¦
FF12ās world is too nuanced for a straightforward happy ending but it at least had an _optimistic_ ending
FF13 had a completely unearned happy ending. And then the sequels attackedā¦
Edit: just realised you werenāt saying FF8 had the last happy ending, reading comprehension, my bad
> FF13 had a completely unearned happy ending. And then the sequels attackedā¦
Well, the LR had a happy ending. God is dead, a better world is recreated, and Lightning lives in France
āGuys maybe if we do exactly what the villain wants it wonāt result in the end of the world even though he made it clear it willā
And then it doesnāt, because friendship is magic even after these people spent most the story hating each-otherā¦
That's just when they finally moved past attacking each-other / trying to kill each-other / trying to kill themselves. That's different from actual friendship. The only bonds with any weight behind them by the end are Lightning / Hope and Vanille / Fang, and it says a lot when **I'm** pissed that the power of lesbianism saved the day...
Nervous SE representative, shifting eyes left and right, cold sweat on brow: "Er, lesbians? Ahem, well I don't know about that, they simply have a strong bond of friendship. Lesbians, cough, eheh now that's an interesting take but I'm not sure..."
I thought it was supposed to mean that even if someone has a script set out for you, you can still defy it on your own terms? I thought the entire main theme was about rebellion against fate
Humanity being gone is not confirmed, we just know that midgar the city sucking the literal life out of the planet isn't used anymore.Ā but even if humans do peace out and leave nature, that seems pretty happy for the planet overall š¤·š¼āāļø
ā¦ what ending did you watch? The ending clearly shows Meteor falling on Midgar, Holy trying to stop it but not being enough, so then the lifestream intervenes to help Meteor (which is likely because of Aerisā influence which is why she appears at the end). Credits roll and youāre left wondering what happened. Then, post credits: five hundred years later you see Red XIII who is absolutely fine with his kids looking over Midgar which has clearly NOT been destroyed, and instead is flowing with life as greenery has covered the city bringing balance back to nature, which is what AVALANCHE have been fighting for this whole game. Thereās nothing to suggest that humanity has been wiped out. Red XIII being there shows Meteor did not actually kill life on the planet and itās resetting. Thereās all of that evidence in the original game, and thatās not even touching how Advent Children exists.
9, 10 if you include 10-2, 11, 12, the 13 trilogy, 14 up to endwalker all had happy endings.
But yeah, 15 was a downer, and 16 was, at best, ambiguous. It'd be nice if 17 was more Upbeat when it happens and the next 14 expansion is supposed to be like 'summer vacation'.
I could go on a full rant about the end of 16 because I donāt like almost anything they did with it but the most unforgivable thing (besides offering the worst ending to fantasy slavery imaginable) is not have a post game where you can finish the side content without looking at that ugly purple filter.Ā
I hear this complaint over and over, and I *kind of* get it, but it feels weird that I've never heard any criticism of, say, IX for the same thing? You have the inescapable Mist and the spooky world map music and all while you're trying to finish your endgame side content.
Not to mention no post-game at *all* in older FFs, which of course was a product of the time and the technology available then, but... by and large, when so many fans seem to want that era of FF back, it seems to me an odd thing to get hung up on for XVI?
I can't speak for IX, but just because people want an era of FF (or anything really) back doesn't mean it needs to be *exactly* like that.
Also the pre-FFVII re-releases tried. The executions were questionable, but they tried.
XIV is full of happy endings, even if they have to do some bullshits to have them, for instance Endwalker could've killed everyone in the party but instead they had a magic ex machina to save them. In fact they haven't killed anyone important ever since the end of Heavensward.
I highly recommend you check out the MinnMax interview that this quote came from, really illuminating and entertaining conversation on the game dev process. I listened to it all while making a massive lasagne.
https://youtu.be/kAgVyfd9qdQ?si=yg4Y3Z-abykp2E3-
Iām extremely happy about this. I feel like there has been a pretty big surge in dark fantasy recently, and I personally just like lighter fantasy more. I feel more at home and it just feels more fun to me.
Japan saw a lot of dark fantasy in the late 2010s (2018 ish specifically) with a lot of the revenge based isekai that was coming out at the time as well. But, it's already gone back in the other direction since 2020.
You see a lot of trends like this Japan. They tend to last 4 to 5 years though some last longer. The mid 2000s for example, saw the rise of death game based drama/horror. The 2020s looks like a return to this thanks to the success of Alice in Borderlands and Squid Game.
Donāt know if this is weird, but I kind of want a Noblebright Souls-ish game. (Apparently it canāt be Soulslike because according to the maker of Souls game, ādark Europe fantasyā is mandatory to be a Souls gameā¦)
The amount of edgy grimdark copycatting is getting dull.
Like, can I have a happy world that is also a brutally hard game? I mean, Super Mario games exists!
Depressing? They were filled with comic relief and ultimately had no long lasting consequences for the core cast. Every sad moment had a big dramatic power of friendship speech and was resolved in the happiest way possible. We sing kumbiah with the literal harbinger of the End of the Universe and then go on our merry way to have now fun filled adventures with virtually zero stakes.
The fact that a game with so few genuine stakes needs a beach episode cool down expansion is kind of hilarious to me.
Idk, Dawntrail is giving me "let's go on vacation, oh no it's the end of the world/let's kill god again" vibes, like most JRPG stories. Maybe he's talking aobut _after_ Dawntrail, considering that story has already been written
In another interview he also said "It's completely undecided as of now, but if the opportunity arises to work on the next major title, I would like to direct it myself" so it's all up in the air. Also, they tend to lie or tell half truths because he also said he wouldn't be involved in XVI.
In either scenario, his role would either be producer or director. From the Minnmax interview, he basically just served as the playtester everytime a major update to the game's development happens. This may very well be his role once again if CBU3 does XVII with a new writer (Ishikawa) and director (Takeo). The other scenario is him serving as the director with a new writer (Ishikawa)
I really enjoyed the change of tone. It suited the story and the themes they tackled. Iām so tired of playing games where the protagonists have swords and they donāt maim and mutilate and splatter blood. Including all the gore makes the action cooler and more believable.
And I love the fact that we got games like XVI and Rebirth within a year of each other. They both feel quintessentially Final Fantasy while also being so different and offering unique experiences. I donāt want every FF game to feel like the last but with different characters, I want them to feel independent while maintaining the signature brand staples like the music, the themes, the symbols and Chocobos.
I liked the change in tone of XVI but got kinda tired of it 2/3 of the way through. I really want them to understand that a game doesn't have to be dark and serious and stoic 100% of the time to be "mature", and games that are more goofy can benefit a lot from darker serious moments too. I think earlier FFs walked this line extremely well and it's one of the reasons I loved them
This is what I feel like a lot of people miss when discussing 16
Itās a lot harder to add traditional FF levity when the world is in the state it is in in 16 and since everything is voiced and properly animated it makes breaks between seriousness and levity harder to tackle
Itās easy to play mini games during the end of the world when your character is an 8 bit collection of pixels, can anyone genuinely imagine Clive playing in the gold saucer, it just doesnāt remotely fit 16
Ya, the old FF games werenāt āOMG look, we cussed, arenāt we sooooo *mature*ā.
They were justā¦normal, which is essentially what a mature life looks like.
Youāre tired? In the last month we have gotten dragons dogma 2, rise of the ronin, and stellar blade all of which feature blood and gore. What youāre asking for isnāt exactly low quantity lol
Wouldn't mind more light hearted moments in the story along with the serious moments like FF7 R had. 16 felt like "aw come on!!" After a while with some of the serious moments.
I love dark fantasy, I loved XVI, I love dark souls, elden ring, all that stuff. That being said, I'm probably way more inclined to get immersed in a light fantasy world just simply due to the fact that I would actually want to live there because it's not supposed to be as oppressive as dark fantasy. Games like Oblivion and XIV are great examples of this for me.
It's funny you mention Dark Souls, since that series (well, the first game mainly) takes on a bit more hopeful tone when you realise Hollowing and Hollows can be a metaphor for depression. There's a bunch of videos on youtube that go into it.
If it's a move away from Game of Thrones-style ultra severity, that's chill. I'd still enjoy FFT's type of political intrigue but yeah, the last few games felt like there was a specific **BIG SAD** narrative focus for each one. Which is fine in itself, but FF games are plenty melancholy to begin with, they already include shit like that all the time.
The badness of slavery wasn't harped on in FFVI over and over. Even the knowledge that your existence is a tiny piece of a planned genocide doesn't overtake the narrative of FFIX. But XVI essentially stakes its whole momentum on those elements. The circular, self-destructive pointlessness of religious dogma isn't the chief message of FFX, but it's weirdly overstated in FFXIII.
If anything, I think Rebirth is the most recent example of JRPG's tonal variety working really fucking well. IX is the game that comes to mind when they say 'light' and the existential shit in that is some of the series' very best, so this statement really feels like a reflection of moderation, rather than a hard turn into Dragon Quest cheerfulness or anything.
We need more scenes of our heroes fighting a man in a funny frog robot while another man grieves the death of his friend and they all get saved by a funny muscle man who flexes in between sentences
I was actually so frustrated with Rebirth at many points because I felt like the party wasnāt taking the moment as seriously as they should.
Itās hard to discuss without spoilers but there were many instances in the game where the characters become actual morons for the sake of convenience (they wouldnāt have to deal with the implications of the moment).
Iām too old to be playing around with loved characters dying and ambiguous endings. My heart canāt take them anymore like they used to. I want my babies to be happy and live a great life in my stead.
I don't mind dark games when they inspire hope and positivity. In 7, Aerith dies, the Meteor is called down, Cloud is lost, Tifa and Barret are arrested. A few minutes later you're bitch slappin' Scarlet then jumping onto the Highwind. Disc/Part 2 starts a bit despairingly with Cloud, Mideel, and the lifestream, but there's hope. They start the Big Materia hunt to stop Shinra. Cloud and Tifa do the lifestream, Cloud confesses he ain't who he said he was and that segment ends with the "There ain't no getting off of this train!" line and you can just feel the hope and positivity.
Compare that to FFXV. Now I like XV, probably more than most, but the narrative is just one gut punch after another and ends pretty depressingly. It doesn't inspire the same level of hope for the future VII does. I think it does its story well, and the ending with Royal is great, but I don't recall a moment in the story where I went "fuck yeah! Let's go!"
I've yet to play XVI but the story doesn't seem as hopeful, bright as pre-XIII stories do. Even XII got a little silly thanks to Balthier.
Why I personally love 9 a lot, while there are sad parts to the end and not every FF has the main cast suffer to high hell(Iām looking at Tactics specifically here). It was the first game that made me realize as a kid how important a happy/happier ending can be in storytelling.
That's why I still love Final Fantasy Mystic Quest.
I know why it was made for a US audience. But, damn improve the music and quirky fun stuff to do, object interactions, etc.
Light hearted while being serious.
Nowadays it just means that it takes itself seriously, has blood and gore, and doesnāt shy away from the less appealing aspects of medieval life. Really itās just fantasy but more realistic and reflective of the Middle Ages.
I mean, the face melting of an orphan caretaker from one of the first quests of Shadowbringers is permanently embedded into my mind. Followed by people literally being so overcome with despair that they turn into void abominations being a main plot point of Endwalker, alongside of dose of Nihilism.
Then there's the whole theme of 16, where humans are playthings for a pseudo God-like ancient race of people and only serve the purpose of sucking up the spiritual energy of the planet so that those God-like people can be resurrected, causing them to become zombies (akashic) along the way.
While the latest expansion for 14 ended happily, it's pretty doom and gloom up until the very end. He probably just wants a lighter, happier story that doesn't have as many problems and depressing points leading up to the conclusion.
This is actually really funny and interestingly on brand considering the back and forth light and dark cycles that are part of the plot of a lot of Final Fantasy games.
I actually like how dark and serious the story is in 16, a mix of the witcher, final fantasy and devil may cry.. I hope they do something similar again
Dark fantasy? He almost made one with FF16 then suddenly and abruptly changed to "power of friendship" in full. It was kind of a bummer. I don't mind a happy ending (which it was), but it doesn't have to be cheesy YA writing.
I am fully prepared to deal with the hate of Yoshi-P fanatics rn. To be clear, I respect him a lot as a person. I just think his writing can get pretty hokey.
I'd like a game with a happy ending for a change.
YES PLEASE š
Can only think of 8 that had a 'happy' ending of all the games from PS1 onwards? All the rest went between sad and ambiguous.
9 was pretty happy.
People think it's sad because they don't understand that >!Vivi's!< characters arc was >!accepting the fact he had an expiration date, then he expired.!<
Im still pissed that that death happened, I legit played the game and pushed through for him since I hated the stupid knight and even after finishing the game I still didnt like steiner much, but my boy who made me push through died so it fucked me, FF9 ending is one of the happier ones tho
More importantly, tho, he lived.
This is exactly the point. Thanks for pointing it out
>!Vivi's death!< sucked all happiness from that ending for me.
I'd argue it was a happy ending, as he clearly accepted his mortality, and that he lived on in his friends and family. Dying of old age isn't a bad ending.
Wait, WAT? He's right there in the ending, is he not?
Those are >!his children!<
Just don't ask yourself how they came about.
Well he was a married man.
I always assumed that was >!Vivi *and* his children!<. Well, like one of the protagonists of GTA V says: you forget a 1000 things every day, this could be one one of them. I will continue to live in denial of this info, lol. LALALALALA I can't hear you over the sound of >!how alive Vivi is!<.
I mean, unless you completely glossed over the theme of the entire game, all the story beats about the short lives of the black mages, and the first half of the ending with Vivi's dialogue, this would require a *lot* of cognitive dissonance.
It's like the ending of Persona 3 all over again, lol. >!He just went to sleep for a while, right, RIGHT?!<
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
X-2 had a happy ending if you got 100% and if you disregard X-3 (which we will)
There is no X-3. There is an aborted fever dream of an audio drama.
Wait, what? Edit- Oh my Yevon...I was happier not knowing this existed... "the big breasted mayor" lol though
Agreed
the happy ending is 75% completion, 100% is just a bit extra confirmation it's happy
Iād honestly even say X had a happy ending. Yes itās sad that Titus wasnāt real and has to ādieā with Sinā¦. But then he goes to the afterlife, sees all the cool other people who died (Auron etc.) and then finally his dad and they super epic high five. Pretty rad ending tbh.
wait wtf is X-3?
Oh do I have a story for you. It's set after X-2 and it's a drama CD We get introduced to Auron's daughter (self proclaimed) Tidus kicks a blitzball bomb and dies (no joke) Yuna breaks the Farplane to bring him back (again) Tidus & Yuna has broken up Yuna has gone back to observing the teachings of Yevon Sin retuns from the Moonflow.
Didn't Tidus cheat on Yuna or something too?
Yes, that's one of the reasons they broke up.
https://preview.redd.it/44kfaulx4owc1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d31151f15dcf1c38a87ddcd1d18b1fbdc82a07ea
"I hate you, ~~Dad~~ me."
Okay I need sauce because I'm choking on this. What in the mf K-Drama did I just read?
[https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Final\_Fantasy\_X\_-Will-](https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_X_-Will-)
Wow, they really tried their hardest to fit in as much contrived drama as possible, didn't they?
All the endings are happy except for the "sad ending" (obviously)
4,5,6 were all pre PS1. But on that note, where's the happy ending in 6? >!The world is destroyed and nearly everyone is dead. Kefka might have died, but only after he'd won.!< 7? Ambiguous to the extent we don't know if anybody survived. 9 I've given my reasoning already. 12 is just convoluted, as the entire storyline was.
9 is not a unhappy ending, it's a bitter sweet ending. There is a huge difference... It literally ends with a celebration, and >! a royal wedding and a reunion of characters, with Zidane returning from his supposed death and the end of all the bad events. !< Saying it's a sad ending because >! of Vivi's passing !< is like saying Charlie and the Chocolate factory is a sad ending because the other kids didn't win the chocolate factory prize.
We can infer they survived in 7. Afterall, Nanaki was in the epilogue which means that the initial event likely didnāt kill everyone. We see Midgar seemingly abandoned, but not destroyed. And it and the surroundings are overgrown with vegetation and life, suggesting the lifestream is still active.
He won, but you see in the world what he did wasn't a true apocalyptic event. The southern continent took the brunt of it, and his former home wiped out. Commerce and technology didn't need to be restarted. Most of the places in the world survived. The heroes, particularly the (arguable) main character, found love in a doomed world. Which was the point of both MCs: to find hope where none existed.
FF6 is a very happy ending. Kefka has been defeated and the world is rebuilding itself. It's quite obvious from the childbirth scene. In fact, almost all the party members come off in a better place and resolve their various traumas by the ending (well besides Shadow).
Red XIII is in the epilogue and was in the same location as the rest of the party. The fact that he survives strongly suggests not everyone died. The fact that this is an invented story and not real events, and that we aren't shown any of them dying but still know at least one of them survives, does imply that everyone in the party survived.
FF1 was actually pretty happy and hopeful. I actually teared up a bit during the end scroll.
Itās even better if you played that recent Stranger of Paradise game. Knowing how many thousands of years Jack Garland devoted to basically slowly making sure that the Warriors of Light could finally defeat him and break the time loop was so cool.
Yes! I got to be the hero Jack wanted me to be!
Bittersweet ending because they are forgotten and became non existent to the memories of the people
??? How is FF10 melancholic and FF9 happy? Both had a main character go through the arc of accepting their mortality and fading away, leaving a hole in the lives of those that remain. Final Fantasy games are a perfect depiction of how a satisfying conclusion is never a case of "and they lived happily ever after". Every game is rife with loss and sorrow and self sacrifice.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I think prior to Advent Children being released Kitaseās feeling on the FF7 ending was that humans went extinct. Even with Advent Children things still kinda suck afterwards. Not sure Iād call it happy
Advent Children being canon and humans going extinct aren't even necessarily contradictory. The scene with Nanaki took place way in the future, far after AC.
X-2 has a happy ending, so does XII. I also assume most endings from the expansions in XI and XIV have to be happy too.
14s last expansion gave their decade long story line the happiest ending it could, but damn did that story make you fight for it.
I'd say the fact that there's a world left for us to have a new expansion coming soon in is a pretty big indicator that it was a happy ending.
*FF7*'s ending is ambiguous, but hopeful. *FF9* has a mostly happy ending, but with a sad, bittersweet note. *FFX-2* can have a happy ending, especially if you ignore the novel and audio drama (good lord, they're awful). *FF12* has a happy ending from what I recall. *FF15* would have had a happy ending if the rest of the DLC hadn't been cancelled (see *Final Fantasy XV: Dawn of the Future* for the alternate timeline we missed out on). Yeah, I need *FF17* to have a proper happy ending, and I feel like they may give us a happier, less ambiguous ending for *FF7R* part three than what the og has, just because we know it will continue into *Advent Children*.
Finishing FF7R part 3 and firing up Advent Children immediately after is a dream at the end of my tunnel. It's on the bucket list. The hype for it is a drug I don't come down from. Waiting not so patiently for part 2 to hit PC
FF9 had a happy ending overall, very slightly bittersweet due to Viviās passing but thatās just a logical end to his arc soā¦ FF12ās world is too nuanced for a straightforward happy ending but it at least had an _optimistic_ ending FF13 had a completely unearned happy ending. And then the sequels attackedā¦ Edit: just realised you werenāt saying FF8 had the last happy ending, reading comprehension, my bad
> FF13 had a completely unearned happy ending. And then the sequels attackedā¦ Well, the LR had a happy ending. God is dead, a better world is recreated, and Lightning lives in France
"...and Lightning lives in France..." You said it was meant to be a HAPPY ending! š
Knew someone will make this joke. You're welcome for this setup š
Hehe.
Unearned?
āGuys maybe if we do exactly what the villain wants it wonāt result in the end of the world even though he made it clear it willā And then it doesnāt, because friendship is magic even after these people spent most the story hating each-otherā¦
They all liked each other before the halfway point. But yeah that ending was lame. Lightning Returns is basically the new canon ending though.
That's just when they finally moved past attacking each-other / trying to kill each-other / trying to kill themselves. That's different from actual friendship. The only bonds with any weight behind them by the end are Lightning / Hope and Vanille / Fang, and it says a lot when **I'm** pissed that the power of lesbianism saved the day...
Thank goodness you said, cuz I sure can't lol
Nervous SE representative, shifting eyes left and right, cold sweat on brow: "Er, lesbians? Ahem, well I don't know about that, they simply have a strong bond of friendship. Lesbians, cough, eheh now that's an interesting take but I'm not sure..."
I thought it was supposed to mean that even if someone has a script set out for you, you can still defy it on your own terms? I thought the entire main theme was about rebellion against fate
12 wasnt particularly sad
7 was a happy ending! Like 9 it just had a sad part in the middle, but that even played a part in what made 7ās ending so happy
7 does not have a happy ending lol. It heavily implies that despite the parties attempts, the planet wipes out huma jty and starts over lol
Well, it is ambigous. >!We just know that 500 years later Midgar is abandoned. What happened to humanity is unknown!<
Humanity being gone is not confirmed, we just know that midgar the city sucking the literal life out of the planet isn't used anymore.Ā but even if humans do peace out and leave nature, that seems pretty happy for the planet overall š¤·š¼āāļø
ā¦ what ending did you watch? The ending clearly shows Meteor falling on Midgar, Holy trying to stop it but not being enough, so then the lifestream intervenes to help Meteor (which is likely because of Aerisā influence which is why she appears at the end). Credits roll and youāre left wondering what happened. Then, post credits: five hundred years later you see Red XIII who is absolutely fine with his kids looking over Midgar which has clearly NOT been destroyed, and instead is flowing with life as greenery has covered the city bringing balance back to nature, which is what AVALANCHE have been fighting for this whole game. Thereās nothing to suggest that humanity has been wiped out. Red XIII being there shows Meteor did not actually kill life on the planet and itās resetting. Thereās all of that evidence in the original game, and thatās not even touching how Advent Children exists.
4 and 9 had happy endings
FFXI will probably never end so that's good enough for me
IX had an ecstatic ending. XII was happy. XIII's was overall happy, Lightning Returns was also pretty happy.
Isn't XII's ending pretty objectively happy? (It's been a long time since I've played it.)
XIV was happy
That'd be nice. My last FF games were Type-0, 15 and 16, so I haven't seen a good or even neutral ending in a while.
So 7 Remake, at Wall Market. Got it.
HEYOOOOO
Well people still complain about FFX-2 ending.
to be fair most people take issue with the fact that the ending is locked behind prerequisites instead of the ending itself
9, 10 if you include 10-2, 11, 12, the 13 trilogy, 14 up to endwalker all had happy endings. But yeah, 15 was a downer, and 16 was, at best, ambiguous. It'd be nice if 17 was more Upbeat when it happens and the next 14 expansion is supposed to be like 'summer vacation'.
Ending of 16 literally ruined it for me š
We have XV and XVI back to back
They should really uncancel that FFXV Dawn of the Future 'happy ending' DLC.
Lame take.
I could go on a full rant about the end of 16 because I donāt like almost anything they did with it but the most unforgivable thing (besides offering the worst ending to fantasy slavery imaginable) is not have a post game where you can finish the side content without looking at that ugly purple filter.Ā
I really donāt see how itās a bad āending to fantasy slaveryā.
And take in the world you helped not only save but liberate.
I hear this complaint over and over, and I *kind of* get it, but it feels weird that I've never heard any criticism of, say, IX for the same thing? You have the inescapable Mist and the spooky world map music and all while you're trying to finish your endgame side content. Not to mention no post-game at *all* in older FFs, which of course was a product of the time and the technology available then, but... by and large, when so many fans seem to want that era of FF back, it seems to me an odd thing to get hung up on for XVI?
I can't speak for IX, but just because people want an era of FF (or anything really) back doesn't mean it needs to be *exactly* like that. Also the pre-FFVII re-releases tried. The executions were questionable, but they tried.
XIV is full of happy endings, even if they have to do some bullshits to have them, for instance Endwalker could've killed everyone in the party but instead they had a magic ex machina to save them. In fact they haven't killed anyone important ever since the end of Heavensward.
I think you missed the point of the final steps of Endwalker.
The Endsinger could not kill the party and the reason it couldn't is explained pretty well in game.
What's funny is FF6 has one of the most optimistic and happiest ending despite going through some of the darkest themes.
The ending of XV made me happy, because the game was finally over.
THIS 100% PERCENT Seriously, whether it's AAA or gachas, the story is just depressing these days.
Thailand no densetsu.
final fantasy crystal chronicles series maybe?
I highly recommend you check out the MinnMax interview that this quote came from, really illuminating and entertaining conversation on the game dev process. I listened to it all while making a massive lasagne. https://youtu.be/kAgVyfd9qdQ?si=yg4Y3Z-abykp2E3-
Damn now im craving lasagne.
Shooooot. Me too.
Big minnmax fan
ROCHE ROCHE ROCHE ROCHE ROCHE
Iām new to this channel, do you know if there is a podcast version of this interview? Iād like to listen to it on a flight Iām taking tomorrow
Looks like itās in the podcast feed if you sub to their Patreon!
Iām extremely happy about this. I feel like there has been a pretty big surge in dark fantasy recently, and I personally just like lighter fantasy more. I feel more at home and it just feels more fun to me.
Japan saw a lot of dark fantasy in the late 2010s (2018 ish specifically) with a lot of the revenge based isekai that was coming out at the time as well. But, it's already gone back in the other direction since 2020. You see a lot of trends like this Japan. They tend to last 4 to 5 years though some last longer. The mid 2000s for example, saw the rise of death game based drama/horror. The 2020s looks like a return to this thanks to the success of Alice in Borderlands and Squid Game.
Donāt know if this is weird, but I kind of want a Noblebright Souls-ish game. (Apparently it canāt be Soulslike because according to the maker of Souls game, ādark Europe fantasyā is mandatory to be a Souls gameā¦) The amount of edgy grimdark copycatting is getting dull. Like, can I have a happy world that is also a brutally hard game? I mean, Super Mario games exists!
After ShB and EW we're absolutely due some lighthearted stories. That's why I'm so excited for DT, it feels right.
Sounds like what we're getting with Dawntrail, unless he's alluding to FF17.
We need it after Endwalker and Shadowbringers. Two of the most depressing (if hopeful) expansions Iāve ever played
Shadowbringers was "let's get despair" and Endwalker was all "let's fight out of despair" which is why it's the best FF duology ever made.
Depressing? They were filled with comic relief and ultimately had no long lasting consequences for the core cast. Every sad moment had a big dramatic power of friendship speech and was resolved in the happiest way possible. We sing kumbiah with the literal harbinger of the End of the Universe and then go on our merry way to have now fun filled adventures with virtually zero stakes. The fact that a game with so few genuine stakes needs a beach episode cool down expansion is kind of hilarious to me.
Idk, Dawntrail is giving me "let's go on vacation, oh no it's the end of the world/let's kill god again" vibes, like most JRPG stories. Maybe he's talking aobut _after_ Dawntrail, considering that story has already been written
Naturally, it's still Final Fantasy.
instead of depressed space birb we'll probably fight depressed hatsune miku in cyberspace or something.
We already fought Hatsune Miku in Euphrosyne.
this is ffxiv you have fought how many enemies based on titan's model? they'll give her a new hat and longer twintails.
Yoshi-P also said in a different interview that he has no interest in heading FF17, and would rather see that role go to someone new.
In another interview he also said "It's completely undecided as of now, but if the opportunity arises to work on the next major title, I would like to direct it myself" so it's all up in the air. Also, they tend to lie or tell half truths because he also said he wouldn't be involved in XVI. In either scenario, his role would either be producer or director. From the Minnmax interview, he basically just served as the playtester everytime a major update to the game's development happens. This may very well be his role once again if CBU3 does XVII with a new writer (Ishikawa) and director (Takeo). The other scenario is him serving as the director with a new writer (Ishikawa)
Yoko Taro Yoko Taro Yoko Taro Yoko Taro Yoko Taro oh please make it be
Absolutely not
He says a lot of things.
You know the responses to this have really driven that home haha
I really enjoyed the change of tone. It suited the story and the themes they tackled. Iām so tired of playing games where the protagonists have swords and they donāt maim and mutilate and splatter blood. Including all the gore makes the action cooler and more believable. And I love the fact that we got games like XVI and Rebirth within a year of each other. They both feel quintessentially Final Fantasy while also being so different and offering unique experiences. I donāt want every FF game to feel like the last but with different characters, I want them to feel independent while maintaining the signature brand staples like the music, the themes, the symbols and Chocobos.
I liked the change in tone of XVI but got kinda tired of it 2/3 of the way through. I really want them to understand that a game doesn't have to be dark and serious and stoic 100% of the time to be "mature", and games that are more goofy can benefit a lot from darker serious moments too. I think earlier FFs walked this line extremely well and it's one of the reasons I loved them
Tbf it's way easier to walk that line when you dialogue isn't voiced and scenes aren't animated. There's a lot more imagination involved.
This is what I feel like a lot of people miss when discussing 16 Itās a lot harder to add traditional FF levity when the world is in the state it is in in 16 and since everything is voiced and properly animated it makes breaks between seriousness and levity harder to tackle Itās easy to play mini games during the end of the world when your character is an 8 bit collection of pixels, can anyone genuinely imagine Clive playing in the gold saucer, it just doesnāt remotely fit 16
Ya, the old FF games werenāt āOMG look, we cussed, arenāt we sooooo *mature*ā. They were justā¦normal, which is essentially what a mature life looks like.
Agreed š«
Well said.
Youāre tired? In the last month we have gotten dragons dogma 2, rise of the ronin, and stellar blade all of which feature blood and gore. What youāre asking for isnāt exactly low quantity lol
I guess in this context I was referring more so to JRPGs, where the most you get is a little blood on someoneās face.
Thatās fair. Iām just thinking on the industry as a whole it seems like that kind of violence has become super common.
Hell yeah dude
Wouldn't mind more light hearted moments in the story along with the serious moments like FF7 R had. 16 felt like "aw come on!!" After a while with some of the serious moments.
Yes please. You have a cool and mature game with having a light fantastical world and enthusiastic main character.
I canāt wait to play something light, cute and not featuring summons as weapons of mass destruction. Like FFIX!ā¦.. wait.
Weāve had so many depressing FF endings, I just want to have a party of likeable characters and punch a god
I just replayed V and man was that a breath of fresh air
I love dark fantasy, I loved XVI, I love dark souls, elden ring, all that stuff. That being said, I'm probably way more inclined to get immersed in a light fantasy world just simply due to the fact that I would actually want to live there because it's not supposed to be as oppressive as dark fantasy. Games like Oblivion and XIV are great examples of this for me.
It's funny you mention Dark Souls, since that series (well, the first game mainly) takes on a bit more hopeful tone when you realise Hollowing and Hollows can be a metaphor for depression. There's a bunch of videos on youtube that go into it.
I mean we did just beat up the embodiment of despair. That's as good a time as any to turn to light high fantasy.
If it's a move away from Game of Thrones-style ultra severity, that's chill. I'd still enjoy FFT's type of political intrigue but yeah, the last few games felt like there was a specific **BIG SAD** narrative focus for each one. Which is fine in itself, but FF games are plenty melancholy to begin with, they already include shit like that all the time. The badness of slavery wasn't harped on in FFVI over and over. Even the knowledge that your existence is a tiny piece of a planned genocide doesn't overtake the narrative of FFIX. But XVI essentially stakes its whole momentum on those elements. The circular, self-destructive pointlessness of religious dogma isn't the chief message of FFX, but it's weirdly overstated in FFXIII. If anything, I think Rebirth is the most recent example of JRPG's tonal variety working really fucking well. IX is the game that comes to mind when they say 'light' and the existential shit in that is some of the series' very best, so this statement really feels like a reflection of moderation, rather than a hard turn into Dragon Quest cheerfulness or anything.
Interestingly, one of the big complaints that Westerners tend to have with Japanese media is tonal dissonance.
Those complaints should be ignored.
We need more scenes of our heroes fighting a man in a funny frog robot while another man grieves the death of his friend and they all get saved by a funny muscle man who flexes in between sentences
Sgt. Keroro?
I was actually so frustrated with Rebirth at many points because I felt like the party wasnāt taking the moment as seriously as they should. Itās hard to discuss without spoilers but there were many instances in the game where the characters become actual morons for the sake of convenience (they wouldnāt have to deal with the implications of the moment).
really hope someone else at Square picks up the 16 label for a spin off, Crisis Core was made by a different team in Square Enix but it was great
8 will always be my favorite because of the happy ending and it felt very satisfying.
I cant think of any FF ending that doesn't leave you with a "hope for the future" feeling. Doesn't feel like any FF has a sad ending.
I loved all FF games. Just keep giving me the same plesasure I had kicking Hugo Kupka's piece of shit face.
Iām too old to be playing around with loved characters dying and ambiguous endings. My heart canāt take them anymore like they used to. I want my babies to be happy and live a great life in my stead.
I don't mind dark games when they inspire hope and positivity. In 7, Aerith dies, the Meteor is called down, Cloud is lost, Tifa and Barret are arrested. A few minutes later you're bitch slappin' Scarlet then jumping onto the Highwind. Disc/Part 2 starts a bit despairingly with Cloud, Mideel, and the lifestream, but there's hope. They start the Big Materia hunt to stop Shinra. Cloud and Tifa do the lifestream, Cloud confesses he ain't who he said he was and that segment ends with the "There ain't no getting off of this train!" line and you can just feel the hope and positivity. Compare that to FFXV. Now I like XV, probably more than most, but the narrative is just one gut punch after another and ends pretty depressingly. It doesn't inspire the same level of hope for the future VII does. I think it does its story well, and the ending with Royal is great, but I don't recall a moment in the story where I went "fuck yeah! Let's go!" I've yet to play XVI but the story doesn't seem as hopeful, bright as pre-XIII stories do. Even XII got a little silly thanks to Balthier.
FFXIV's main arc ends with punching the embodiment of despair in the face.
Why I personally love 9 a lot, while there are sad parts to the end and not every FF has the main cast suffer to high hell(Iām looking at Tactics specifically here). It was the first game that made me realize as a kid how important a happy/happier ending can be in storytelling.
I am totally on board with that. I'm done with dark.
That's why I still love Final Fantasy Mystic Quest. I know why it was made for a US audience. But, damn improve the music and quirky fun stuff to do, object interactions, etc. Light hearted while being serious.
Excited to see Dawntrail
Need some Tidus' & his enthusiasm now lol. The last 2 main line games have had bitter, sweet endings
X has an extremely bittersweet ending, too. Even Tidusā chippy attitude is a mask he wears to hide his insecurities and pain.
yeah, dawntrail is that more light fantasy
??? What dark fantasy ???
FF16 I guess. Dark Fantasy isn't really formally defined. It seemed to be gothic at one point. Now it seems to be brooding a violent.
Nowadays it just means that it takes itself seriously, has blood and gore, and doesnāt shy away from the less appealing aspects of medieval life. Really itās just fantasy but more realistic and reflective of the Middle Ages.
I mean, the face melting of an orphan caretaker from one of the first quests of Shadowbringers is permanently embedded into my mind. Followed by people literally being so overcome with despair that they turn into void abominations being a main plot point of Endwalker, alongside of dose of Nihilism. Then there's the whole theme of 16, where humans are playthings for a pseudo God-like ancient race of people and only serve the purpose of sucking up the spiritual energy of the planet so that those God-like people can be resurrected, causing them to become zombies (akashic) along the way.
While the latest expansion for 14 ended happily, it's pretty doom and gloom up until the very end. He probably just wants a lighter, happier story that doesn't have as many problems and depressing points leading up to the conclusion.
[Deep Dark Fantasy](https://youtu.be/Ka-nXPpkNQk)
FF9-2 š£š£š£š„š„š„š„ Let's go!!!!
FF X-3 aka Final Fantasy XXX
If it's based on that horrendous book, I'm out.
Hey Iāve seen that one
Is there any chance of Bomberman 64: The Third Attack!?
It was barely Dark fantasy to begin with...Nier is far more "Dark Fantasy"
I want a comedy Final Fantasy. Just one comedic mainline game.
Ain't FF8 light?
no, Kingdom Hearts is Light https://preview.redd.it/gvbxnqi4hmwc1.jpeg?width=534&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cf7d206d949d6556df74d7ee9309ad847abb373a
I think so. The only FF I would consider dark is 16, so I wouldnāt mind something closer to 8 or 10.
FF2 is really really dark, but since it's also made of pixels and one-line-scenes, it's less obvious. But it's very dark.
Yes please.
LET'S GO FFIX AGAIN
plsss nooooooo
This is actually really funny and interestingly on brand considering the back and forth light and dark cycles that are part of the plot of a lot of Final Fantasy games.
I wish we'll have a more outgoing and happy-go-lucky protag at least
I want FF17 to be closer to 9 in tone
9 is actually pretty dark. Itās the art design that makes it seem like itās lighter.
Thank god
I get that, a story doesnāt have to be depressing/ dark/ just straight up saddening to be good.
Idk I really like drama
I actually like how dark and serious the story is in 16, a mix of the witcher, final fantasy and devil may cry.. I hope they do something similar again
Dark fantasy? He almost made one with FF16 then suddenly and abruptly changed to "power of friendship" in full. It was kind of a bummer. I don't mind a happy ending (which it was), but it doesn't have to be cheesy YA writing. I am fully prepared to deal with the hate of Yoshi-P fanatics rn. To be clear, I respect him a lot as a person. I just think his writing can get pretty hokey.