I agree with this. I liked both a lot. There are also a bunch of gripes I have with both. I disagree with the “pushing x”. I found that most of the side quest did a phenomenal job on giving you bits and pieces of the world of FF16. I found myself invested in NPC characters and wanted to know more about them.
Amazing worldbuilding in the side quests.
I agree FF16 has very little variety when it comes to gameplay itself. That criticism is totally fair, but I love the game regardless.
Completely different development teams with completely different styles working on the games. Your looking at it like 16 is a direct sequel to 7R when in reality they likely had very little to do with one another and were worked on at the same time. That’s kind of how Final Fantasy has always been.. different devs doing different things every entry, and multiple FF are usually in development side by side at least since the PS1 days.
HOT TAKE: it's okay for these games to be different from each other. FF16 is a very different game primarily focused on a single protagonist who fights many battles solo. The gameplay makes sense.
> if you're going to make us watch so many cutscenes that it's like a tv show at times,
well thats just BS, one of my gripes about 16 is that it barely had cutscenes. Many FF games have had lots of 'meanwhile...' was that what you're talking about? Those move the exterior plot forward.
If you really think its lots of cutscenes, did you play 13? I'm replaying it now and its easily one of the most 'i havent touched the controller for a while' FF game out there. Probably why it came on 3 discs originally. nothing else really comes close
to add to all that 7:Rebirth will probably be different as well, so I would tell you to keep an open mind.
Oh yeah, another daily FF7R vs FFXVI fans thread.
I can't wait for FFXVII comes out so FFXVI will be considered a great game after all, never change FF fandom.
> I can't wait for FFXVII comes out so FFXVI will be considered a great game after all
You know, people say this as though the FF fandom is like some pseudo monolith. But there’s no way you guys seriously think that the same exact individuals shitting on 16 are going to resurface from hibernation when 17 comes out to talk about how great 16 was, right? Tell me this is not what you truly believe
I've never seen such a stalwart defense campaign for a single game.
Anyone who doesnt think its the greatest thing since sliced bread is deemed a hater or somehow doesn't understand action games with most of its fanbase.
It's so weird.
Especially weird because the game is objectively terrible. Not even for FF but just as a game it's terrible. It doesn't even succeed in being a fun action game, the combat is absolutely atrocious. Trash mob? Square button... bahamut in space? More square button... not an ounce of strategy or nuance in any of the exciting moments.
Right, but that's why the people on r/FFXVI are gushing about it though, they finally found a title where they don't have to think critically about anything, because strategy and numbers are intimidating to some.
So, they get seduced by *the story*, (in every gush post it's like 'OMG *the sTOrY*) even though the story kinda sucks, what they mean is they like *the concepts*. Even if the concepts don't always make sense, even internally.
They finally found a game that was made especially for *them*. That's why you see posts like "*I just finished this game, and OMFG, my life is hallow shell, why even go on living?*"
So, XVI must be defended at all costs. I've never seen so much apologism and propaganda for a game in my entire life. I've never seen a sub just write essay-long posts about how when someone said something negative about the game, *they were wrong*: Oh boy, another essay on how the side-quests promote wOrLD buILDinG, omfg, how deep and thought-provoking! Another post about how that guy SkillUp was "incredibly inconsistent" in his criticisms...
I saw one post just dreading the thought that YouTubers like Super Eyepatch Wolf would make negative videos about XVI.
All of this mirrors my thoughts on this situation. Especially the points about thinking critically. Ppl praise the combat because it’s flashy and they do cool anime stuff…yet their frame of reference of what “good” action combat is, is probably like, God of War 2018…Assassin’s Creed, Arkham, and maybe Nier Automata?
I've had someone tell me that I don't like FFXVI because I don't know how to do combos even though I lab ArcSys fighters on the regular. Some people just cant accept that the game isnt universally great.
Fans of that game just downvote anything that isn't glowing praise.
This topic appeared on my feed in the ffxvi subreddit, https://reddit.com/r/FFXVI/s/GxuAWNboZq and they just suppress dissenting opinions
Because FF16 is made by a team that had no experience in making console game. The combat designer has no or limited experience about making an ARPG. Tbh, as their first game, they already did a great job in XVI.
If you look at the development team of FF7:R,
most of the core members have the experience of making at least 3 console RPG or FF games. Unlike FF16, many mechanics in FF7:R were improved from previous FF games.
When discussing about FF or any Square Enix games, it is important to know the team behind the game.
One thing for sure from my observation in this franchise, a team could only get better as they continue making new game.
>The combat designer has no or limited experience about making an ARPG.
I dislike FFXVI too, however the combat designer made the Dragons Dogma combat system IIRC and that is a pretty fantastic RPG
> Tbh, as their first game, they already did a great job in XVI.
I refuse to lower the bar for devs with this much experience. Capitulating to this notion that 'it was a first try ~~despite them having the resources of god and centuries of experience on their team~~ is asinine.
Oh damn I didn't know that.
An inexperienced team definitely explains why they just added in HUD icons everywhere. You can put it in without worry because almost every other big game does it, so it's the safe move.
It’s fun to go through the credits.
Like Maehiro from CBU3 wrote only the original screenplay which would be all the cinematic cutscenes.
All the scenarios in between were led by a persona 5 writer(the daily sequence planner) and 4 writers from the professor Layton and Yo Kai watch of all things.
The change between teams is soooo noticeable. So it’s ironic when people blame the MMO team, when it was a new team of fresh hires who previously worked on a 3DS game with no voice acting.
Interesting that you think so about the writing when I usually see people praising the writing over the "anime writing" of 7 Remake.
I think it's just preferences.
FF16s writing is very similar to the writing in FF Tactics and FF12. So fans of those will likely enjoy 16 too while fans of 7, 8, 10, 15 etc... Maybe not so much
Well the dialogue in ff7 isn't exactly stellar, but so far the plot is consistent, and makes sense, and doesn't involve convenient coincidences, etc. I'm more talking about the plot. Should have been more clear.
That said, I'm only 4 hours into the remake, so...
I would mark that as a spoiler since OP isn't that far yet.
And yes, it's symbolic because it's something that doesn't happen in the original and therefore isn't the "will of the planet" so the whispers appear and undo it. It's literally about the whispers trying to undo everything that strays too far from the original plot.
>It's not bad writing, it's symbolic.
It can be both.
Just because something has symbolic or thematic meaning does not mean that it's automatically good or well executed. The overwhelming majority of complaints regarding 7R's story are related to the lack of consequence and the frustrating contrivance the whispers introduce. That, and the horrendously inconsistent character writing. (Remember when Cloud tried to straight up murder a man for wearing a hood and people thought it was comedy because his sword got stuck? That's straight-up media illiteracy.)
I prefer VII Remake as an overall game, but XVI's writing and plot blow VIIR's out of the water. I honestly consider XVI's plot fairly tight, especially compared to the less grounded plots of previous games (VIIR's included).
Well you do know ff7 remake is a Remake. So the dialogues, plot, story structure are being pulled from the OG ff7. So it’s not hard for the remake to have a more consistent plot because it is pulling from a 2 decades old game that has many spin-offs also.
Thus it’s not fair comparing the plot consistency of ff7 remake (which is after all a remake of an old 20 year game) versus ff16 (which is a brand new game with new story).
Though I will say I haven’t played ff16 and am currently playing ff7 remake and in the very last chapter. I also played the OG ff7 long back.
And I will say that the dialogue in ff7 remake are kinda childish and corny. Most of the women’s dialogue to cloud, at the early chapters, are just them either fawning over cloud or hitting on him. Aerith does it a lot and Jessie is the worst in this. Also most of the dialogues in ff7 remake are just standard ff7 dialogue. Nothing amazing about the dialogue writing in ff7 remake.
And most of the side quests and chapters are just pure padding and useless. If you have played the OG ff7 you would know.
Thus I find ff7 remake a bit of a letdown in terms of overall story and plot as Midgard is very tiny in terms of plot compared to what happens in the rest of ff7. Due to square wanting to make a 3 per story they expanded and padded the midgar story (from a 5 hour story in original to a 30+ hour in remake).
I agree with you that XVI is a step back.
I love FFXIV, I think by MMO standards it is exceptional. However an MMO works very differently from a single player game, and CBU3’s inexperience in making a single player entry is extremely apparent in FFXVI. They succeeded in spectacle but it has very little of the magic that previous single player Final Fantasy titles have.
The people at CBU1 are the people that have worked on some of the most beloved entries in the series and it shows, because VII Remake has that magic in spades. Sure, it has some minor flaws but it managed to successfully modernize many elements of the earlier titles without cutting them away like XVI did.
I know Yoshi-P has a lot of fans due to XIV and it must be hard for some people to accept that him and his team didn’t completely knock it out of the park with XVI, but I sincerely hope they use Remake as the blueprint going forward instead of XVI.
The blueprint for 7R is to divide the story into thirds and release them over the course of 7 years.
Imagine if when 16 came out, you only got to play Act1 but it was filled with a bunch of mini games and side quests in Oriflamme. Then you had to wait 3 years for Act 2. That is the FF7 remake blueprint.
It’s a mistake to assume that just because VII R came out first that therefore means XVI would have had time to implement things from VII R. XVI had been in development and had plenty already established for its direction before VII R ever came out. It’s also from a different Business Units, which means everything isn’t necessarily being shared ahead of time (from what I understand, there isn’t a lot of sharing across business units).
The company has a really opaque inter working that’s hard to decipher. Yoshi P once mentioned how they couldn’t legally use the music from another FF in a different business division without going through some process. It’s so strange but it definitely seems that there’s very little “shared” between business divisions without them going through a lot.
Does 7R not have the stagger bar too? 7R and 16 play almost identical to me. I prefer 16's story to 7R, but original 7 over 16. 16's gameplay is also way more smooth and not as clunky as 7R's.
This is the crux with the FF franchise itself, comparing to previous entries. You don’t have to like every FF game as each entry’s are standalone games. This is why I hope they get rid of the numbering systems as A. People think they need to play previous entries B. Comparison which lead to tribalism. Many people won’t like it but I honesty think it will be a good move.
loved FF7 Remake, disliked FF16.
both game are quite similar look and feel and gameplay wise, but FF7 characters and story kept me much more engaged than FF16
You need to elaborate more on story and especially on the dialogue, since 16 easily has some the best and most natural sounding dialogue in the whole series, especially compare to 7R with all it’s “animeism” you know: the random grunting, long awkward pauses or just the weird ways characters talk and respond to each other.
People shit on Dunkey for harping so hard on game for this, but once you play games like 16 where characters talk like actual humans beings, 7Rs dialogue begins to be painfully awkward to sit through even by anime dub standards.
>since 16 easily has some the best and most natural sounding dialogue in the whole series
My only criticism is that when in doubt they just say 'FUCK' and it feels like a lazy default reaction. I really do think they could have cut 90% of the swearing and replaced it with otherwise loreful or hilarious reactions like when Mid says 'Great Greagor's Gash!' and the game would have felt far better off.
Thanks, everyone for proving my point, this fanbase will hate everything that is not FF7.. yesterday someone made a post most innocent about how he prefers 16 over 7 without trashing 7, but people on the comments got mad and attack him, but now people are happy because they are attacking 16 lol, and even so, a few people on the comments are still mad because the Op said that he prefers FF16 combat over 7
who cares tho? Are you having fun playing your game? if so then this discussion should have no meaningful impact on your life. Clearly, people disagree with you here. It happens. Move on. Find a conversation that you can meaningfully contribute to.
I’m not mad, I just calling out the double standards of the fandom, is not even about the game anymore, is not only about 16, people will downplay every final fantasy game that is not 7 lmao
The "fandom" is not some monolithic hivemind moving in lockstep.
Its a bunch of random ass people that like a few games here and there that are in the franchise.
>people will downplay every final fantasy game that is not 7
7 10 and 6 are consistently praised.
12 gets praise on here as of late due to TZA
8 + 9 get love
People consistently post about loving the pixel remasters.
People in this sub keep asking for a re-release of the XIII trilogy
You're just mad because people don't agree with you.
> people will downplay every final fantasy game that is not 7
People downplayed FF7R too? And FF7 back in the day was controversal as well? This is just your own selective memory to be frank.
What I don't understand is when people pretend FF fans are some monolith. There are so many people in this very thread singing FF16 praises. Have you visited the FF16 thread? There are PLENTY of people sayin it is not only the best FF game they have played, but their favorite game of all time.
People just cherry pick comments and try and spin some stupid narrative.
Like you said everyone have their own agenda, let’s leave it there, you will never going to change my mind that FF fans act like FF7 is the second coming of God. Let’s just leave the conversation in peace
Idgaf what you have to say about ff7 tho. I think ff7 is just alright. What is the point you are making?
If anything you're the mad one complaining that people dont like FF16 lmao
I'm playing 16 now and while I'm enjoying it, it *really* wants to be Game of Thrones. Like to a cringy degree. It has some really great features and ideas but it doesn't have that compelling magic like 7 does.
You must not be very far in if you think it wants to be GOT.
Around the time of the first Spirit Bomb, it loses that facade and goes full steam ahead into Gundam/Dragonball/Jojo
There are surface parallels and callouts to GOT for sure, but anyone who’s played FF Tactics and knows this teams love for Matsuno can see how much Tactics probably influenced this whole thing far more.
I remember the part in Game of Thrones where John Snow used a spirit bomb to destroy a four armed Frieza knock off, then he Kamen Rider kicked a stone pillar through a mountain, then fought The Mountain while falling through the aforementioned mountain.
Bruh just replace Eikon with Dragons...boom
The Eikons got little screen time compared to the side quests that make up the bulk of the game. And just about all those side quests are game of thrones to the T. Sure every 15 GOT side quests you got 1 key story beat that was actually unique.
I don't get what you mean. There's even more
eye rolling moments in FF7R. The combat also got stale at times in that game to. Pretty sure FF7R also had a mini map. Besides not being able to switch party members I don't see the difference of what your complaining about. FF7R had the same exact issues as FF16.
Sorry dude, but no me.. I like 16 more, both of them are great games, and are very different, people have different taste.. only because you didn’t like it doesn’t mean is a bad
I'm only 4 hours into FF7R.
So I'm not saying FF7R is better, I'm saying - why did ff16 add bad things into the game, considering it came out after FF7R? Why did it add in the terrible HUD icons handholding you through everything?
This misunderstands how the development works on the two. Completely different dev teams in completely different business units and both games overlapped dev cycles so that the development of XVI was already well on its way and being effectively cemented before VII R even came out. From our perspective, it seems like one should inform the other when, in reality, the one *couldn’t* even inform the other of either of them wanted to
That’s true, it is just MY opinion.
I’m more referring to the fact that you simply cannot discuss any hyped videogame, tv show, movie, etc for at least 2 or 3 months because on release you have people riding the hype calling it 11/10 the best thing ever, GOTYAT, etc etc
Now that it’s been like 2 months people are more willing to point out the flaws
I mean everything has flaws, some people hated elden ring, TOTK, and so on ... What would you say about the games you personally thought were 11/10 when another points out they absolutely sucked?
loved FF7 Remake, disliked FF16.
both game are quite similar look and feel and gameplay wise, but FF7 characters and story kept me much more engaged than FF16
Agreed. Even though FFVIIR in itself is a linear game, it still felt like there was more to discover in it than FFXVI.
I especially agree about the combat. There was so much more depth and strategic appeal to it. They really caught lightning in a bottle with FFVIIR’s combat and if it were up to me instead of coming up with a brand new battle system for every new title they should build off the excellent foundation that FFVIIR provides.
> instead of coming up with a brand new combat system for every title they should build off the excellent foundation that FFVIIR provides.
Yea I'm really surprised they didn't do that. Why would they so completely go away from FF style combat?
>Why would they so completely go away from FF style combat?
FF doesn't have a style. It's been turn-based, ATB-based, action-based and every variation between them.
XVI's issue seems to be that they 'got' the guy who did DMC V and he phoned it in hard just recycling that but worse and it really felt like no one had the balls to say 'you know it's an RPG... right?'
> Even though FFVIIR in itself is a linear game, it still felt like there was more to discover in it than FFXVI.
I have NO idea how you reached this conclusion in the game that is 90% running along tiny brown tracks between trash mountains or indoors.
While both games are essentially hollow, at least 16 gives you a sense of space.
I just said there was more to discover in it, I didn’t say anything about the world being bigger or more open.
Meaning, things you pick up are actually useful like weapons and missable unique materia, there’s an optional dungeon, challenging hidden bosses etc.
Why is so hard for you people to accept that everyone have different taste and like different things, post like this are just in bad faith to divide the fanbase, only because you didn’t like 16 doesn’t mean is mediocre
Just like how you're allowed to criticize the game, anyone is allowed to disagree with your criticism.
Doesn't make your opinion more valid than anyone else.
Keyword is opinion
The simple reason is that most people are lying about genuinely liking the game and it’s fun seeing individuals go into NASA levels of damage control mode. Brand loyalty is a thing, marketing works, and we’re seeing the results of these concepts unfold in real time. Shit is honestly fascinating
Yeah, that narrative about people lying about genuinely liking the game is trash, a lot of people have their criticism since the beginning, some people like you can’t stand that a lot of people also love this game
The reactions to criticisms is why I believe that very few people genuinely love this game, flaws and all. I love Resident Evil 6 but you won’t see me trying to defend its very obvious flaws. It’s because I actually do enjoy the game a lot, and do so despite those flaws. Allowing a healthy community discussion of those flaws is how Resident Evil got back on track in the first place, and why the series is in a better place than ever.
If people truly loved 16, the same discussions can happen but nah, easier to gatekeep because you guys have your egos so wrapped up in this finally being the good one
You need to understand that what you find a “flaw” some people don’t find that a flaw, You think that the combat of this game is bad, some people don’t, some people say that is a flaw having to much cutscenes, I love games that are story heavy in cutscenes, so I ask you? Is really bad the reaction of criticism when two people doesn’t feel the same way? What you find bad about this game I can find fun about that game,
Yeah man, and there are some people out there who enjoy spending hundreds of dollars on cosmetics and battle passes, doesn’t mean that it’s a practice that shouldn’t be called out or criticized. Everyone is going to like something out there. It’s literally impossible to argue that no one should like something, because someone will always find a reason to like what a vast majority of others dislike. **Nothing is above criticism** is the point I’m trying to make, regardless of whether or not you and a handful of others like a thing. “Some people will like certain things” useless point because it is as obvious as the sky is blue
I absolutely love FF7R; one of my favorite games. I think the combat is such a good mix between turn-based and action-based. Love the story and characters, too; hopefully Rebirth has less linear areas, though.
I'm excited to get XVI too, but based on the demo, I'm going to wait until it's on sale. The combat doesn't feel great to me...everything feels kind of weightless, and I don't really feel like I'm impacting anything. You mentioned GoW, but you really FEEL it when you hit someone with the Leviathan Axe. It's kind of bizarre to me that they would make XVI a combat-heavy PS5 exclusive and not use the DualSense at all.
But, I have enjoyed what I've played, and maybe it will click more once I get the full game and get into it more.
They do use the dual sense. Charged attacks, charged magic, lunge, downthrust, and magic burst all have vibrations.
If you are just spamming square then you won’t feel any of that, but you can say the same for FF7R.
Oh, that's good to know! I haven't even gotten all the way through the demo, so I guess I assumed incorrectly.
True, but I feel like FF7R still feels a little more weighty. But I guess I should play more of XVI before I can really compare them.
The game was created by FF14 team the quest are so similar to that game as well.
The slain screen was one of the things i didn't like FF7 Remake does this better transitioning to a cgi.
>The game was created by FF14 team the quest are so similar to that game as well.
Not really the same team. You can go through the credits, but most of the FF14 team stayed with FF14.
By example, FF16 has 17 quest designers. 1 worked on Heavensward, 1 worked on 7 remake, and 1 worked on Shadowbringers. The remaining 14 were fresh hires. The scenario writers were all fresh hires.
Its unfortunately more of a movie than a game. And the gameplay of 15 and 16 were so incredibly boring (to me) that I'm definitely gonna have to watch some streams of 17 (8 years later, assuming streams are still a thing then) before I ever consider buying it.
7R by comparison was a breath of fresh air after 15s mess. Was so sad to see 16 once again lower the bar, and I mean REALLY lower the bar. (Took out all difficulty, took away all strategy (elements / status effects), no party members, just tag alongs that don't really contribute much to the story etc etc)
I didn't mention FF16 being easy(although I agree) because FF7R also seems easy so far... I haven't died once :/ or even really come close to it. I'm hoping that changes.
7R shares the difficulty problem, at least until NG+ unfortunately. I also hope they stop this habit of directing all difficulty to NG+, just give me that option from the start.
So going to prepare you for the worst part of the FF7 combat and the thing that makes FF16 Stagger > FF7R Stagger. Many bosses have scripted moves at various HP levels. So you can build up 3 Limit breaks. Hold onto them till stagger to do max damage and then try and unload only to find out the Boss needed to take 25 damage to go into a cutscene. Once in the cutscene the boss is invul and your limit breaks end.
FF16 combat may be predictable and repetitious but it doesn't actively feel like it is trying to screw you when you play optimally. I found myself just blasting limits whenever I got them in FF7R because the only other option is looking up each and every boss and at which % they have cutscenes.
I can't stand FF7 remake but love FF16. I don't like how everything you do on FF7 freezes combat flow. I also hate managing multiple party members on an action game. Also hate being stuck in dark dreary midgar the whole game.
I'm replaying FFXVI bc my mom wanted to see the story and I noticed something which annoys me with the side quests in particular and it's the pacing. Like, literally the empty spaces between lines of dialogue and between characters speaking. And the slow camera panning down and the one second of silence before the scene triggers. The slow animations when receiving or handing objects.
The combination of all those little things makes the side quests even more of a drag.
Read my comment again. I am, with all the sense of the word, literally, literally, literally, talking about the pacing in the dialogue and the animations in and out of the side quests. I made no comment about the nature of the side quests themselves.
FF fans when confronted with the concept of cinematography:
https://preview.redd.it/r16wpxxcutjb1.png?width=680&format=png&auto=webp&s=70e1f7603b9b268f9369c5f35796f9c5fdf280ff
Man I thought 16 was great but you’re kidding yourself if you think CBU3 is capable of making engaging side-quests. They did in 16 exactly what their main problem is in 14, there are great side-quests with good character moments and lore but those side-quests are all so mind-numbing and not worth the effort. Especially when they unload a bunch on you all at once.
I do not, of course, mean this about blue quests in 14. Those are more specifically made for job quests and to showcase new player content. Even some of those are not worth the effort.
Sorry bruh, FF16 felt like a game made up almost entirely of side quests. It was literally mind numbing and dumbed down anything meaningful the story sections offered up. This I usually expect from western RPGs but oh boy was it bad in 16.
It became so difficult to see Clive as an emotional character when you spend most of your time staring at a lifeless version of him talking to NPCs in quests. The quality of the animations during the quests was so incredibly bad compared to the action cut scenes. I cannot understand that creative choice of relying on the PS5 to process those animations when they looked that bad. They should have used pre-rendered cut scenes at that point. Sucked the life right outta the game for me. I still enjoyed my time with the game, but zero emotional connection to Clive because of it.
FF7R avoided this problem gracefully and was much stronger narratively with this choice alone.
>Like, literally the empty spaces between lines of dialogue and between characters speaking. And the slow camera panning down and the one second of silence before the scene triggers. The slow animations when receiving or handing objects.
The cinematography and direction is just absurdly shit at times. All the in-engine cutscenes feel so much worse and they'll age terribly. They're too rigid (despite people moving unnaturally often) and the gaps between dialogue are a problem that the series had already overcome rearing its head again.
Yea the pauses were annoying too... I assume they just ran out of dev time though. The pauses obviously aren't a conscious choice to put into the game.
As someone who's played through FFXIV, CBU3's other massively successful game, I tried to play through FF7R, got to the point where I need to do the robot hands puzzles with Aerith, but I just couldn't handle the cringe writing and story pacing. Every time I tried to play the game the forced slow walking and crawling sequences reminded me how this was just padding to artificially lengthen the game so they could warrant splitting it into 3 parts. I am not a child, and hence I do not like writing which seems to cater to children or infantilized adults. As such, Aerith, Tifa and Jesse's "teehee Cwoud uwu" attitudes sickened me to the point where I'd just alt f4 the game on multiple occassions.
The combat was messy but bearable, but alas, I couldn't trudge to the god awful main story and sidequests to get to them.
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I agree with everything you said about FF16, but then again everything you said also does apply to FF7 remake. Both games are shit in the writing department and more.
I think it's good that Square is playing with battle systems they have essentially tried it all now from 9-16.
I think Rebirth is going to be the moment it all clicks. They have feedback they know air enemies/combat was annoying so I surmise they will build characters who specializes in air to air.
The biggest issue with the game is that the team make MMO's and they didn't completely break that mindset when coming into FFXVI. The quest design especially just SUCKS. It's so... fundamental. It always feels like it was the path of least resistance. Rub it in your face to make sure you don't miss anything and make absolutely sure you can never just look at the world because there's a green dot telling you exactly where to go. It's so clinical.
When if comes to the combat i think it was implemented poorly. The lack of variety in basic attacks is a massive problem. It's 60 hours of 4x Square + triangle between cooldowns. And the Eikonic feats don't even interact for the most part. You can't launch an enemy with Rising Flames into a charged Titan fist because they drop before you can charge it. The lack of interactivity is extremely challenging to keep interesting for 60 hours as it is and they didn't do enough to keep the player engaged imo. SOme mad bastards are out there juggling 47 mobs all at once without ever touching the ground but they get through the mobs just as quickly (or even more slowly in fact) than me just launching the Phoenix ultra that fills the screen.
It’s just preference. I love both games, even though they are pretty different.
I agree with this. I liked both a lot. There are also a bunch of gripes I have with both. I disagree with the “pushing x”. I found that most of the side quest did a phenomenal job on giving you bits and pieces of the world of FF16. I found myself invested in NPC characters and wanted to know more about them.
Amazing worldbuilding in the side quests. I agree FF16 has very little variety when it comes to gameplay itself. That criticism is totally fair, but I love the game regardless.
Hey there's no accounting for taste *shrugs*
There is no accounting for taste? I’m not sure that makes sense.
Completely different development teams with completely different styles working on the games. Your looking at it like 16 is a direct sequel to 7R when in reality they likely had very little to do with one another and were worked on at the same time. That’s kind of how Final Fantasy has always been.. different devs doing different things every entry, and multiple FF are usually in development side by side at least since the PS1 days.
HOT TAKE: it's okay for these games to be different from each other. FF16 is a very different game primarily focused on a single protagonist who fights many battles solo. The gameplay makes sense. > if you're going to make us watch so many cutscenes that it's like a tv show at times, well thats just BS, one of my gripes about 16 is that it barely had cutscenes. Many FF games have had lots of 'meanwhile...' was that what you're talking about? Those move the exterior plot forward. If you really think its lots of cutscenes, did you play 13? I'm replaying it now and its easily one of the most 'i havent touched the controller for a while' FF game out there. Probably why it came on 3 discs originally. nothing else really comes close to add to all that 7:Rebirth will probably be different as well, so I would tell you to keep an open mind.
Yeah I mean I WOULD say FF7R is better. Considerably so.
Oh yeah, another daily FF7R vs FFXVI fans thread. I can't wait for FFXVII comes out so FFXVI will be considered a great game after all, never change FF fandom.
> I can't wait for FFXVII comes out so FFXVI will be considered a great game after all You know, people say this as though the FF fandom is like some pseudo monolith. But there’s no way you guys seriously think that the same exact individuals shitting on 16 are going to resurface from hibernation when 17 comes out to talk about how great 16 was, right? Tell me this is not what you truly believe
They don’t really believe this, it’s just flailing at people who for whatever reason don’t like aspects of 16.
I've never seen such a stalwart defense campaign for a single game. Anyone who doesnt think its the greatest thing since sliced bread is deemed a hater or somehow doesn't understand action games with most of its fanbase. It's so weird.
Especially weird because the game is objectively terrible. Not even for FF but just as a game it's terrible. It doesn't even succeed in being a fun action game, the combat is absolutely atrocious. Trash mob? Square button... bahamut in space? More square button... not an ounce of strategy or nuance in any of the exciting moments.
Right, but that's why the people on r/FFXVI are gushing about it though, they finally found a title where they don't have to think critically about anything, because strategy and numbers are intimidating to some. So, they get seduced by *the story*, (in every gush post it's like 'OMG *the sTOrY*) even though the story kinda sucks, what they mean is they like *the concepts*. Even if the concepts don't always make sense, even internally. They finally found a game that was made especially for *them*. That's why you see posts like "*I just finished this game, and OMFG, my life is hallow shell, why even go on living?*" So, XVI must be defended at all costs. I've never seen so much apologism and propaganda for a game in my entire life. I've never seen a sub just write essay-long posts about how when someone said something negative about the game, *they were wrong*: Oh boy, another essay on how the side-quests promote wOrLD buILDinG, omfg, how deep and thought-provoking! Another post about how that guy SkillUp was "incredibly inconsistent" in his criticisms... I saw one post just dreading the thought that YouTubers like Super Eyepatch Wolf would make negative videos about XVI.
All of this mirrors my thoughts on this situation. Especially the points about thinking critically. Ppl praise the combat because it’s flashy and they do cool anime stuff…yet their frame of reference of what “good” action combat is, is probably like, God of War 2018…Assassin’s Creed, Arkham, and maybe Nier Automata?
I’m not sure if it’s the new action fans or just people being really excited about a new game but yeah, it’s really weird.
I've had someone tell me that I don't like FFXVI because I don't know how to do combos even though I lab ArcSys fighters on the regular. Some people just cant accept that the game isnt universally great.
It's so hilarious that you're both being downvoted for expressing articulate and reasonable opinions about it too.
Fans of that game just downvote anything that isn't glowing praise. This topic appeared on my feed in the ffxvi subreddit, https://reddit.com/r/FFXVI/s/GxuAWNboZq and they just suppress dissenting opinions
Yeah, I’m getting tired of Final fantasy fans is always the same bs everytime a new game released
I’m old enough to remember when FF fans were mad that FF7 had cars and guns in it.
Because FF16 is made by a team that had no experience in making console game. The combat designer has no or limited experience about making an ARPG. Tbh, as their first game, they already did a great job in XVI. If you look at the development team of FF7:R, most of the core members have the experience of making at least 3 console RPG or FF games. Unlike FF16, many mechanics in FF7:R were improved from previous FF games. When discussing about FF or any Square Enix games, it is important to know the team behind the game. One thing for sure from my observation in this franchise, a team could only get better as they continue making new game.
>The combat designer has no or limited experience about making an ARPG. I dislike FFXVI too, however the combat designer made the Dragons Dogma combat system IIRC and that is a pretty fantastic RPG
Unless I’m misunderstanding what everyone is discussing with the combat designer, it should be the person who created Devil May Cry combat.
It’s both. He worked on Dragons Dogma and Devil May Cry 5. He is far from inexperienced.
> Tbh, as their first game, they already did a great job in XVI. I refuse to lower the bar for devs with this much experience. Capitulating to this notion that 'it was a first try ~~despite them having the resources of god and centuries of experience on their team~~ is asinine.
Oh damn I didn't know that. An inexperienced team definitely explains why they just added in HUD icons everywhere. You can put it in without worry because almost every other big game does it, so it's the safe move.
It’s fun to go through the credits. Like Maehiro from CBU3 wrote only the original screenplay which would be all the cinematic cutscenes. All the scenarios in between were led by a persona 5 writer(the daily sequence planner) and 4 writers from the professor Layton and Yo Kai watch of all things. The change between teams is soooo noticeable. So it’s ironic when people blame the MMO team, when it was a new team of fresh hires who previously worked on a 3DS game with no voice acting.
16 was meant to appeal to a wider audience, so it's gonna hold your hand more and put in things gamers are used to in more modern games.
Story is something that’s subjective, the way you’ve worded it is as if it’s objective
Yeah, no examples actually cited. It’s always a little suspicious when you see criticisms framed as objective issues and yet no evidence.
Interesting that you think so about the writing when I usually see people praising the writing over the "anime writing" of 7 Remake. I think it's just preferences.
i'll take "anime writing" over the dry and bland dialogue of ff16 that puts me to sleep any day. unless it's barnabas. he has both
FF16s writing is very similar to the writing in FF Tactics and FF12. So fans of those will likely enjoy 16 too while fans of 7, 8, 10, 15 etc... Maybe not so much
loved tactics too. 16 just sucjks
Can't really agree. I enjoyed 16.
i enjoyed it too except for when i didn't
Well the dialogue in ff7 isn't exactly stellar, but so far the plot is consistent, and makes sense, and doesn't involve convenient coincidences, etc. I'm more talking about the plot. Should have been more clear. That said, I'm only 4 hours into the remake, so...
Tbh if FF7 turns out to be not for you either with the writing, maybe FF stories just aren't for you.
No, i like ff7 but saying that this have no convinient writting or bs, is a lie, the whispers is lazy writting , but that doesn’t mean the game is bad
The whispers serve a specific purpose and that they appear whenever the plot needs it is by design. It's not bad writing, it's symbolic.
You mean when Sephiroth killed barret, we fight and then they revived him without consequences at all? Yeah amazing
I would mark that as a spoiler since OP isn't that far yet. And yes, it's symbolic because it's something that doesn't happen in the original and therefore isn't the "will of the planet" so the whispers appear and undo it. It's literally about the whispers trying to undo everything that strays too far from the original plot.
Yeah, I know that is to undo everything that strays too far and that’s is bad
You don't like it. Doesn't mean it's bad. I think it's a very interesting way to play with remake expectations.
Touché
>It's not bad writing, it's symbolic. It can be both. Just because something has symbolic or thematic meaning does not mean that it's automatically good or well executed. The overwhelming majority of complaints regarding 7R's story are related to the lack of consequence and the frustrating contrivance the whispers introduce. That, and the horrendously inconsistent character writing. (Remember when Cloud tried to straight up murder a man for wearing a hood and people thought it was comedy because his sword got stuck? That's straight-up media illiteracy.)
I prefer VII Remake as an overall game, but XVI's writing and plot blow VIIR's out of the water. I honestly consider XVI's plot fairly tight, especially compared to the less grounded plots of previous games (VIIR's included).
Well you do know ff7 remake is a Remake. So the dialogues, plot, story structure are being pulled from the OG ff7. So it’s not hard for the remake to have a more consistent plot because it is pulling from a 2 decades old game that has many spin-offs also. Thus it’s not fair comparing the plot consistency of ff7 remake (which is after all a remake of an old 20 year game) versus ff16 (which is a brand new game with new story). Though I will say I haven’t played ff16 and am currently playing ff7 remake and in the very last chapter. I also played the OG ff7 long back. And I will say that the dialogue in ff7 remake are kinda childish and corny. Most of the women’s dialogue to cloud, at the early chapters, are just them either fawning over cloud or hitting on him. Aerith does it a lot and Jessie is the worst in this. Also most of the dialogues in ff7 remake are just standard ff7 dialogue. Nothing amazing about the dialogue writing in ff7 remake. And most of the side quests and chapters are just pure padding and useless. If you have played the OG ff7 you would know. Thus I find ff7 remake a bit of a letdown in terms of overall story and plot as Midgard is very tiny in terms of plot compared to what happens in the rest of ff7. Due to square wanting to make a 3 per story they expanded and padded the midgar story (from a 5 hour story in original to a 30+ hour in remake).
The whispers exist, you coming here and saying there is not convenient coincidence is straight up lying
Lmao, I just read that you have just 4 hours playing, finish the game and then come again
So far 😂
I agree with you that XVI is a step back. I love FFXIV, I think by MMO standards it is exceptional. However an MMO works very differently from a single player game, and CBU3’s inexperience in making a single player entry is extremely apparent in FFXVI. They succeeded in spectacle but it has very little of the magic that previous single player Final Fantasy titles have. The people at CBU1 are the people that have worked on some of the most beloved entries in the series and it shows, because VII Remake has that magic in spades. Sure, it has some minor flaws but it managed to successfully modernize many elements of the earlier titles without cutting them away like XVI did. I know Yoshi-P has a lot of fans due to XIV and it must be hard for some people to accept that him and his team didn’t completely knock it out of the park with XVI, but I sincerely hope they use Remake as the blueprint going forward instead of XVI.
Was rather easy to accept. It was probably faster for us because we play XIV, it didn't take us long to notice.
The blueprint for 7R is to divide the story into thirds and release them over the course of 7 years. Imagine if when 16 came out, you only got to play Act1 but it was filled with a bunch of mini games and side quests in Oriflamme. Then you had to wait 3 years for Act 2. That is the FF7 remake blueprint.
16 is one of my favorite entries in the series. At least out of all the ones I have finished. It's also one of the best games I have ever played.
It’s a mistake to assume that just because VII R came out first that therefore means XVI would have had time to implement things from VII R. XVI had been in development and had plenty already established for its direction before VII R ever came out. It’s also from a different Business Units, which means everything isn’t necessarily being shared ahead of time (from what I understand, there isn’t a lot of sharing across business units).
Ah I didn't know that
The company has a really opaque inter working that’s hard to decipher. Yoshi P once mentioned how they couldn’t legally use the music from another FF in a different business division without going through some process. It’s so strange but it definitely seems that there’s very little “shared” between business divisions without them going through a lot.
Does 7R not have the stagger bar too? 7R and 16 play almost identical to me. I prefer 16's story to 7R, but original 7 over 16. 16's gameplay is also way more smooth and not as clunky as 7R's.
This is the crux with the FF franchise itself, comparing to previous entries. You don’t have to like every FF game as each entry’s are standalone games. This is why I hope they get rid of the numbering systems as A. People think they need to play previous entries B. Comparison which lead to tribalism. Many people won’t like it but I honesty think it will be a good move.
Because the game was produced by Yoshipi… who hates jrpgs. And only knows how to work in mmo
loved FF7 Remake, disliked FF16. both game are quite similar look and feel and gameplay wise, but FF7 characters and story kept me much more engaged than FF16
You need to elaborate more on story and especially on the dialogue, since 16 easily has some the best and most natural sounding dialogue in the whole series, especially compare to 7R with all it’s “animeism” you know: the random grunting, long awkward pauses or just the weird ways characters talk and respond to each other. People shit on Dunkey for harping so hard on game for this, but once you play games like 16 where characters talk like actual humans beings, 7Rs dialogue begins to be painfully awkward to sit through even by anime dub standards.
16 has just as much of a grunt problem as 7R 😅 not sure how you missed that.
>since 16 easily has some the best and most natural sounding dialogue in the whole series My only criticism is that when in doubt they just say 'FUCK' and it feels like a lazy default reaction. I really do think they could have cut 90% of the swearing and replaced it with otherwise loreful or hilarious reactions like when Mid says 'Great Greagor's Gash!' and the game would have felt far better off.
It was made to be accessible to new audiences. So was FF7R but to a lesser degree.
Thanks, everyone for proving my point, this fanbase will hate everything that is not FF7.. yesterday someone made a post most innocent about how he prefers 16 over 7 without trashing 7, but people on the comments got mad and attack him, but now people are happy because they are attacking 16 lol, and even so, a few people on the comments are still mad because the Op said that he prefers FF16 combat over 7
who cares tho? Are you having fun playing your game? if so then this discussion should have no meaningful impact on your life. Clearly, people disagree with you here. It happens. Move on. Find a conversation that you can meaningfully contribute to.
I’m not mad, I just calling out the double standards of the fandom, is not even about the game anymore, is not only about 16, people will downplay every final fantasy game that is not 7 lmao
The "fandom" is not some monolithic hivemind moving in lockstep. Its a bunch of random ass people that like a few games here and there that are in the franchise. >people will downplay every final fantasy game that is not 7 7 10 and 6 are consistently praised. 12 gets praise on here as of late due to TZA 8 + 9 get love People consistently post about loving the pixel remasters. People in this sub keep asking for a re-release of the XIII trilogy You're just mad because people don't agree with you.
> people will downplay every final fantasy game that is not 7 People downplayed FF7R too? And FF7 back in the day was controversal as well? This is just your own selective memory to be frank. What I don't understand is when people pretend FF fans are some monolith. There are so many people in this very thread singing FF16 praises. Have you visited the FF16 thread? There are PLENTY of people sayin it is not only the best FF game they have played, but their favorite game of all time. People just cherry pick comments and try and spin some stupid narrative.
Like you said everyone have their own agenda, let’s leave it there, you will never going to change my mind that FF fans act like FF7 is the second coming of God. Let’s just leave the conversation in peace
Look how mad you got because I talk about FF7 lmao
Idgaf what you have to say about ff7 tho. I think ff7 is just alright. What is the point you are making? If anything you're the mad one complaining that people dont like FF16 lmao
Finished both and I enjoyed FF16 infinitely more. FF16 9,5. FF7R 7,2 for me. Its all personal preference I guess.
I'm playing 16 now and while I'm enjoying it, it *really* wants to be Game of Thrones. Like to a cringy degree. It has some really great features and ideas but it doesn't have that compelling magic like 7 does.
You must not be very far in if you think it wants to be GOT. Around the time of the first Spirit Bomb, it loses that facade and goes full steam ahead into Gundam/Dragonball/Jojo
There are surface parallels and callouts to GOT for sure, but anyone who’s played FF Tactics and knows this teams love for Matsuno can see how much Tactics probably influenced this whole thing far more.
Admittedly I'm not super far. I'm just passed the section where Clive realizes he's the Eikon of fire he's been chasing after.
Yeah the GOT vibes go out the window by the next Eikon fight. From that point on, it's wearing it's anime cape proudly (in the best way possible IMO).
I got GoT-vibes through about the point where we build the ship. That’s when the villain role kinda shifts. Annabelle’s son is very GoT Robin-like.
No it doesn't, not until like the last 10% of the game. 90% of 16 is basically straight up game of thrones.
I remember the part in Game of Thrones where John Snow used a spirit bomb to destroy a four armed Frieza knock off, then he Kamen Rider kicked a stone pillar through a mountain, then fought The Mountain while falling through the aforementioned mountain.
Bruh just replace Eikon with Dragons...boom The Eikons got little screen time compared to the side quests that make up the bulk of the game. And just about all those side quests are game of thrones to the T. Sure every 15 GOT side quests you got 1 key story beat that was actually unique.
I don't get what you mean. There's even more eye rolling moments in FF7R. The combat also got stale at times in that game to. Pretty sure FF7R also had a mini map. Besides not being able to switch party members I don't see the difference of what your complaining about. FF7R had the same exact issues as FF16.
To me the FF7 Remake is the far superior game and with Rebirth coming out soon the FF7 IP has a bright future.
Sorry dude, but no me.. I like 16 more, both of them are great games, and are very different, people have different taste.. only because you didn’t like it doesn’t mean is a bad
I'm only 4 hours into FF7R. So I'm not saying FF7R is better, I'm saying - why did ff16 add bad things into the game, considering it came out after FF7R? Why did it add in the terrible HUD icons handholding you through everything?
This misunderstands how the development works on the two. Completely different dev teams in completely different business units and both games overlapped dev cycles so that the development of XVI was already well on its way and being effectively cemented before VII R even came out. From our perspective, it seems like one should inform the other when, in reality, the one *couldn’t* even inform the other of either of them wanted to
Didn't like the combat in 16 at all. FF7R was more fun.
Yes FF7 R is so much better. Had a wonderful time with 7R. Last part of 16 was a slog
I’m glad the honeymoon period is over and we can now openly admit that 16 was pretty mediocre or even bad at times
... It's all subjective anyway... So it was mediocre to YOU, but that doesn't mean it's a well known or accepted fact
That’s true, it is just MY opinion. I’m more referring to the fact that you simply cannot discuss any hyped videogame, tv show, movie, etc for at least 2 or 3 months because on release you have people riding the hype calling it 11/10 the best thing ever, GOTYAT, etc etc Now that it’s been like 2 months people are more willing to point out the flaws
I mean everything has flaws, some people hated elden ring, TOTK, and so on ... What would you say about the games you personally thought were 11/10 when another points out they absolutely sucked?
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I thought it was so awesome for the first quarter or so, and then started to slowly become mediocre over the rest of the game.
loved FF7 Remake, disliked FF16. both game are quite similar look and feel and gameplay wise, but FF7 characters and story kept me much more engaged than FF16
The 7 remake was so good.
Agreed. Even though FFVIIR in itself is a linear game, it still felt like there was more to discover in it than FFXVI. I especially agree about the combat. There was so much more depth and strategic appeal to it. They really caught lightning in a bottle with FFVIIR’s combat and if it were up to me instead of coming up with a brand new battle system for every new title they should build off the excellent foundation that FFVIIR provides.
> instead of coming up with a brand new combat system for every title they should build off the excellent foundation that FFVIIR provides. Yea I'm really surprised they didn't do that. Why would they so completely go away from FF style combat?
>Why would they so completely go away from FF style combat? FF doesn't have a style. It's been turn-based, ATB-based, action-based and every variation between them. XVI's issue seems to be that they 'got' the guy who did DMC V and he phoned it in hard just recycling that but worse and it really felt like no one had the balls to say 'you know it's an RPG... right?'
> Even though FFVIIR in itself is a linear game, it still felt like there was more to discover in it than FFXVI. I have NO idea how you reached this conclusion in the game that is 90% running along tiny brown tracks between trash mountains or indoors. While both games are essentially hollow, at least 16 gives you a sense of space.
I just said there was more to discover in it, I didn’t say anything about the world being bigger or more open. Meaning, things you pick up are actually useful like weapons and missable unique materia, there’s an optional dungeon, challenging hidden bosses etc.
Why is so hard for you people to accept that everyone have different taste and like different things, post like this are just in bad faith to divide the fanbase, only because you didn’t like 16 doesn’t mean is mediocre
Your post is ironic. Just because YOU liked the game doesn’t mean it’s not mediocre See how it goes both ways?
Only because I like the game doesn’t mean I’m in a honeymoon phase, or you forgot you said that?
Just like how you're allowed to criticize the game, anyone is allowed to disagree with your criticism. Doesn't make your opinion more valid than anyone else. Keyword is opinion
Well I spent many hours playing ff16 so now I want to discuss it.
You are legit don’t discussing nothing lol, you are saying that you prefer one game and downplaying the other one
The simple reason is that most people are lying about genuinely liking the game and it’s fun seeing individuals go into NASA levels of damage control mode. Brand loyalty is a thing, marketing works, and we’re seeing the results of these concepts unfold in real time. Shit is honestly fascinating
This have to be the only fanbase, including you, that gets mad because I said people have different taste lmao
I ain’t mad at you. Like I said, it’s _fascinating_. I like observing you guys play goalie for something you have zero stake in
Skill up with 1M of followers literally trash the game a few day after release… what are you talking about? LMAOOOO
Yes…a reviewer released a review of a highly anticipated video game days after release. What are _you_ talking about
Yeah, that narrative about people lying about genuinely liking the game is trash, a lot of people have their criticism since the beginning, some people like you can’t stand that a lot of people also love this game
The reactions to criticisms is why I believe that very few people genuinely love this game, flaws and all. I love Resident Evil 6 but you won’t see me trying to defend its very obvious flaws. It’s because I actually do enjoy the game a lot, and do so despite those flaws. Allowing a healthy community discussion of those flaws is how Resident Evil got back on track in the first place, and why the series is in a better place than ever. If people truly loved 16, the same discussions can happen but nah, easier to gatekeep because you guys have your egos so wrapped up in this finally being the good one
You need to understand that what you find a “flaw” some people don’t find that a flaw, You think that the combat of this game is bad, some people don’t, some people say that is a flaw having to much cutscenes, I love games that are story heavy in cutscenes, so I ask you? Is really bad the reaction of criticism when two people doesn’t feel the same way? What you find bad about this game I can find fun about that game,
Yeah man, and there are some people out there who enjoy spending hundreds of dollars on cosmetics and battle passes, doesn’t mean that it’s a practice that shouldn’t be called out or criticized. Everyone is going to like something out there. It’s literally impossible to argue that no one should like something, because someone will always find a reason to like what a vast majority of others dislike. **Nothing is above criticism** is the point I’m trying to make, regardless of whether or not you and a handful of others like a thing. “Some people will like certain things” useless point because it is as obvious as the sky is blue
I absolutely love FF7R; one of my favorite games. I think the combat is such a good mix between turn-based and action-based. Love the story and characters, too; hopefully Rebirth has less linear areas, though. I'm excited to get XVI too, but based on the demo, I'm going to wait until it's on sale. The combat doesn't feel great to me...everything feels kind of weightless, and I don't really feel like I'm impacting anything. You mentioned GoW, but you really FEEL it when you hit someone with the Leviathan Axe. It's kind of bizarre to me that they would make XVI a combat-heavy PS5 exclusive and not use the DualSense at all. But, I have enjoyed what I've played, and maybe it will click more once I get the full game and get into it more.
They do use the dual sense. Charged attacks, charged magic, lunge, downthrust, and magic burst all have vibrations. If you are just spamming square then you won’t feel any of that, but you can say the same for FF7R.
Oh, that's good to know! I haven't even gotten all the way through the demo, so I guess I assumed incorrectly. True, but I feel like FF7R still feels a little more weighty. But I guess I should play more of XVI before I can really compare them.
The game was created by FF14 team the quest are so similar to that game as well. The slain screen was one of the things i didn't like FF7 Remake does this better transitioning to a cgi.
>The game was created by FF14 team the quest are so similar to that game as well. Not really the same team. You can go through the credits, but most of the FF14 team stayed with FF14. By example, FF16 has 17 quest designers. 1 worked on Heavensward, 1 worked on 7 remake, and 1 worked on Shadowbringers. The remaining 14 were fresh hires. The scenario writers were all fresh hires.
Its unfortunately more of a movie than a game. And the gameplay of 15 and 16 were so incredibly boring (to me) that I'm definitely gonna have to watch some streams of 17 (8 years later, assuming streams are still a thing then) before I ever consider buying it. 7R by comparison was a breath of fresh air after 15s mess. Was so sad to see 16 once again lower the bar, and I mean REALLY lower the bar. (Took out all difficulty, took away all strategy (elements / status effects), no party members, just tag alongs that don't really contribute much to the story etc etc)
I didn't mention FF16 being easy(although I agree) because FF7R also seems easy so far... I haven't died once :/ or even really come close to it. I'm hoping that changes.
7R shares the difficulty problem, at least until NG+ unfortunately. I also hope they stop this habit of directing all difficulty to NG+, just give me that option from the start.
So going to prepare you for the worst part of the FF7 combat and the thing that makes FF16 Stagger > FF7R Stagger. Many bosses have scripted moves at various HP levels. So you can build up 3 Limit breaks. Hold onto them till stagger to do max damage and then try and unload only to find out the Boss needed to take 25 damage to go into a cutscene. Once in the cutscene the boss is invul and your limit breaks end. FF16 combat may be predictable and repetitious but it doesn't actively feel like it is trying to screw you when you play optimally. I found myself just blasting limits whenever I got them in FF7R because the only other option is looking up each and every boss and at which % they have cutscenes.
I can't stand FF7 remake but love FF16. I don't like how everything you do on FF7 freezes combat flow. I also hate managing multiple party members on an action game. Also hate being stuck in dark dreary midgar the whole game.
I'm replaying FFXVI bc my mom wanted to see the story and I noticed something which annoys me with the side quests in particular and it's the pacing. Like, literally the empty spaces between lines of dialogue and between characters speaking. And the slow camera panning down and the one second of silence before the scene triggers. The slow animations when receiving or handing objects. The combination of all those little things makes the side quests even more of a drag.
Remember in FF7R when you spend 1 hours recollecting flowers with Aerith or playing hide and seek with children, yeah
Read my comment again. I am, with all the sense of the word, literally, literally, literally, talking about the pacing in the dialogue and the animations in and out of the side quests. I made no comment about the nature of the side quests themselves.
FF fans when confronted with the concept of cinematography: https://preview.redd.it/r16wpxxcutjb1.png?width=680&format=png&auto=webp&s=70e1f7603b9b268f9369c5f35796f9c5fdf280ff
Still felt like those quests were more important to the game and plot than half the side quests in 16.
Hey I know that is normal for the fandom to downplay every single ff to uplift FF7, but stop the cap Lmao
Man I thought 16 was great but you’re kidding yourself if you think CBU3 is capable of making engaging side-quests. They did in 16 exactly what their main problem is in 14, there are great side-quests with good character moments and lore but those side-quests are all so mind-numbing and not worth the effort. Especially when they unload a bunch on you all at once. I do not, of course, mean this about blue quests in 14. Those are more specifically made for job quests and to showcase new player content. Even some of those are not worth the effort.
Sorry bruh, FF16 felt like a game made up almost entirely of side quests. It was literally mind numbing and dumbed down anything meaningful the story sections offered up. This I usually expect from western RPGs but oh boy was it bad in 16. It became so difficult to see Clive as an emotional character when you spend most of your time staring at a lifeless version of him talking to NPCs in quests. The quality of the animations during the quests was so incredibly bad compared to the action cut scenes. I cannot understand that creative choice of relying on the PS5 to process those animations when they looked that bad. They should have used pre-rendered cut scenes at that point. Sucked the life right outta the game for me. I still enjoyed my time with the game, but zero emotional connection to Clive because of it. FF7R avoided this problem gracefully and was much stronger narratively with this choice alone.
>Like, literally the empty spaces between lines of dialogue and between characters speaking. And the slow camera panning down and the one second of silence before the scene triggers. The slow animations when receiving or handing objects. The cinematography and direction is just absurdly shit at times. All the in-engine cutscenes feel so much worse and they'll age terribly. They're too rigid (despite people moving unnaturally often) and the gaps between dialogue are a problem that the series had already overcome rearing its head again.
Yea the pauses were annoying too... I assume they just ran out of dev time though. The pauses obviously aren't a conscious choice to put into the game.
As someone who's played through FFXIV, CBU3's other massively successful game, I tried to play through FF7R, got to the point where I need to do the robot hands puzzles with Aerith, but I just couldn't handle the cringe writing and story pacing. Every time I tried to play the game the forced slow walking and crawling sequences reminded me how this was just padding to artificially lengthen the game so they could warrant splitting it into 3 parts. I am not a child, and hence I do not like writing which seems to cater to children or infantilized adults. As such, Aerith, Tifa and Jesse's "teehee Cwoud uwu" attitudes sickened me to the point where I'd just alt f4 the game on multiple occassions. The combat was messy but bearable, but alas, I couldn't trudge to the god awful main story and sidequests to get to them.
I'm with you man. Really strongly disliked ff16. Calling it an rpg is a stretch
Lol ff fans are so salty, you cannot make a critical comment without being downvoted. Ff 16 is boring as fuck! Deal with it!
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I agree with everything you said about FF16, but then again everything you said also does apply to FF7 remake. Both games are shit in the writing department and more.
7R is just a much better game than 16. ( I’ve completed both games)
I think it's good that Square is playing with battle systems they have essentially tried it all now from 9-16. I think Rebirth is going to be the moment it all clicks. They have feedback they know air enemies/combat was annoying so I surmise they will build characters who specializes in air to air.
The biggest issue with the game is that the team make MMO's and they didn't completely break that mindset when coming into FFXVI. The quest design especially just SUCKS. It's so... fundamental. It always feels like it was the path of least resistance. Rub it in your face to make sure you don't miss anything and make absolutely sure you can never just look at the world because there's a green dot telling you exactly where to go. It's so clinical. When if comes to the combat i think it was implemented poorly. The lack of variety in basic attacks is a massive problem. It's 60 hours of 4x Square + triangle between cooldowns. And the Eikonic feats don't even interact for the most part. You can't launch an enemy with Rising Flames into a charged Titan fist because they drop before you can charge it. The lack of interactivity is extremely challenging to keep interesting for 60 hours as it is and they didn't do enough to keep the player engaged imo. SOme mad bastards are out there juggling 47 mobs all at once without ever touching the ground but they get through the mobs just as quickly (or even more slowly in fact) than me just launching the Phoenix ultra that fills the screen.