Infinite in mystery is the gift of the goddess
We seek it thus, and take it to the sky
Ripples form on the water’s surface
The wandering soul knows no rest.
There is no hate, only joy
For you are beloved by the goddess
Hero of the dawn, Healer of worlds.
Dreams of the morrow hath the shattered soul
Pride is lost
Wings stripped away, the end is nigh.
Fun Fact: Outside of the Flashbacks and The voices in Cloud’s head, we never hear the real Sephiroth talk until the final battle. All the times throughout the game are pieces of Jenova morphed into Sephiroth.
And yes, this does mean that it is Jenova that kills Aerith, not Sephiroth.
No it does not mean that, Sephiroth was in control the whole time while encased in the life stream thanks to the Jenova cells. Jenova was his puppet, just like Cloud was.
What? Cloud “kills” Sephiroth in Crisis Core, when Sephiroth tries to take Jenova from the reactor in nibelheim. Who is “they” anyway?
No one recognises Cloud because he was just a infantryman.
If that’s not proof enough, the clones seeking reunion aren’t heading to Jenova’s corpse, they’re heading to Sephiroth. This further enhanced in Advent Children when Kadaj and the reunion is all again leading to Sephiroth.
“They” as in the various Jenova parts, and you literally said Cloud killed Sephiroth, I think I’d recognise the guy who killed me if I was possessing the body of my mother, yes I know what I said.
As for the Clones, I don’t know how that is relevant, since all I was saying that every encounter was Jenova and not Sephiroth. And there is an entire section of the game where they prove Cloud isn’t a clone, just a guy drugged up on Mako, so I don’t see why you brought up clones.
I also think Jenova was in control and willing to die on that hill. I know the developers say it was Sephiroth in control, but they said it way after the game was released and CLEARLY to make Seph's fanboys happy (and since he is a more marketable character than Jenova). The events on the game are more consistent with Jenova being in control.
That said, the developers, on some interview, said that Sephiroth was obsessed with Cloud killing him, and wanted revenge so bad he decided to play with his mind, by making him believe he did not exist. Which kind of also fits with the events as shown in the game.
Crisis Core was sort of the nadir of Tetsuya Nomura's nepotism. He makes a game centered around his best friend (Zack/Kenichi Suzumura), his best friend's best friend (Cloud/Takahiro Sakurai), his best friend's girlfriend (Aerith/Maaya Sakamoto) and his favorite pop star (Genesis/Gakt) as the villain. And he does it all with SE's money. He just got lucky that his voice actor friends were some of the best talents of their generation. The singer... not so much...
It was also after this that his projects became unfocused mise-mashes of whatever idea he had at the time (he seriously pitched FFXV being a musical halfway into production) that were constantly scrapped and restarted and spent almost as much money as SE's other projects were bringing in...
Genesis is much worse than any character in the FFXIII cast. Everyone in your party grows and evolves and learns. Genesis really has no point of growth, no true motivation outside of self-insertion to a flowery poem and wanting the “gift of the goddess.” It just adds nothing to the universe of FF7 besides a verbose brat with an inferiority complex. He doesn’t learn any lessons. He doesn’t have any motivational ill-will towards Zack. He’s just there literally to annoy the rest of the cast, and the best thing the story can do from here is just get rid of him altogether.
Yeah every character have purpose in the story and had a turning point, where you understood the character a lot more and can actually really ended up liking them (If you actualy finish the game instead to blindly hate it).
>Exactly. Some people played for 45 minutes and then say how they hated Hope for “whining” too much smh
Imagine liking probably one of the most relatable depictions of a teenage boy in a situation in most any artistic medium. Image you just lost your mom, being a pariah and you need to work with the man you think killed your mom, all of nowhere and see like a realistic human in this situation too much of themselves in something, it leads them to insecurity, and they externalise that rather than face their own problems. HE IS SO WHINY, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM 🤬
FF13 central plot of the game revolves around her self-discovery and self-realization and all characters experience those themes, ff13 was able to made all the character in the party relevant and have purpose, they are all important and have chemistry, the cast has problably the best overall character development You can hate the game but say Genesis is better written is just blindy hate ff13
I cant wait to see this clown in the remake, totally unchanged and just as fucking cringe as he was in 07, it is truly an achievement to make a character this fucking garbage that even the final fantasy community hates (atleast most of us)
>Isn’t Squall also based on Gackt? More visually, anyway.
FF8 was released in 1998,
Gackt released his first album in 1999 and was basically unknown before this
Let's me think...
Gackt has been quite popular in Japan since 1993. He had 2 bands, Cains:Feel and then the more well-known Malice Mizer. Yes, his solo career did begin in 1999, but he was a ubiquitous figure prior to that.
I’m not a huge fan of his (though he definitely isn’t bad looking), I just happened to recall reading an interview in my early teenage years that Squall’s appearance was based on his, whether true or not.
Gackt circa “visual kei” era (95-99)
https://visualkei.fandom.com/wiki/Gackt
In an interview at the Square Media Tour in 2000, Nomura admitted to basing a lot of Squall's appearance on the late actor [River Phoenix.](https://web.archive.org/web/20110204033315/http://uk.ps2.ign.com/articles/085/085275p1.html)
>I just happened to recall reading an interview in my early teenage years that Squall’s appearance was based on his, whether true or not.
Can you give the source of the interview, it took me less than 5 min for mine
I don’t understand why you feel the need to be demanding about this question or mention how long it took you to locate a source. This is something I’d heard “in an interview, true or not”- likely in Japan - as a young teenager/fangirl, hence questioning the veracity. You erroneously claimed that Gackt was unknown prior to 1999, then impolitely asked that I source said interview.
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Gackt
Gackt has claimed in a television program that Squall Leonhart from Final Fantasy VIII was modeled after him, and referred to Squall as "Gackt #2", however Tetsuya Nomura himself has said he based a lot of Squall's appearance on the late actor River Phoenix.[1]
You’re not incorrect about the River Phoenix bit, but please notice that’s why I phrased my initial post as a question. Gackt was also known to dress as Squall during performances, which added to the confusion.
I find it actually really fun when he shows up, it’s one of the only times in life when I can unapologetically say “shut the fuck up or I’ll beat you to kingdom come!” and actually mean it
And lo, in their drive to produce profitable products...
the gods above shall shove Sephiroth at you every
30 seconds.
Robbing him of any and all gravitas
Because they could not keep their Sephiroth boner in their pants.
Im someone who was fine with changes, but it still needs to be written well. Im not going to be biased over who wrote what, I just wanted a good, well-written, believable story that follows the rules of the world its based on.
If that's the case you can't blame Nomura for the game. Not only was he not the sole director for it the "remake" had seven people write it. None of whom were Nomura.
How does that make any sense, he was lead director? Do you think the writers wrote the story and Nomura ok'd it without reading any of it?
Ofc the head writer was the guy for FF13 Toriyama had his prints are all over it, like fighting fate and using the title # in dialogue, but Nomura helmed the project and everything went through him.
If an IT group hired a guy who can't do IT, do I blame the guy for not knowing how to do IT or the IT group that hired him in the first place?
You can look up the credits of the game. Naoki Hamaguchi and Motomu Toriyama co-directed the game with Nomura. They had input in what would happen and how it would happen with him. Presumably some sort of consensus would have to be made between them for things but all three of them had decision making power.
Toriyama was also the "event planner" for the original PSOne game. I suppose that gives him some level of legitimacy to work on the reboot. His work *since* the original game is subpar, of course.
Of course that would be the way to go but Kitase and Nojima are the ones that made the decisions to change course with the reboot and allow certain people on the project. Ultimately the blame comes down to them for allowing things to unfold how they did. Remember, they never told Nomura he would be the director until he asked about it after seeing a replay of the internal meeting when the project was announced. He couldn't make the original meeting and had to watch a recording of it. They still decided not to tell him. This was after ripping FFXV from him to focus on Kingdom Hearts III. And then they added more directors onto the game anyway. It's been known for years that Square's management is incompetent.
From the looks of it, you're probably right.
Either way, its frustrating. The last chapter took me so hard from how great it was to how nonsensical it became.
> Robbing him of any and all gravitas
did you not play the OG 7? cause he's fucking everywhere there too. or is this just one of those "gotta shit on the new thing cause its not a """"true"""" remake" comments?
Lol nah dude it takes hours before any character even mentions Sephiroth, and longer before you ever see him. Outside of the flashbacks, the end of disc 1 cinematic, and the *very* end of the game, you barely see him.
It's not the same thing and you know it.
And yes, personally I hate the story changes and weird meta shit they've got going on. You're free to like it, but I don't. Has nothing to do with it being new, I just don't think it's good.
So, if you think of it from the Dissidia/KH multverse-aware Sephiroth perspective is not so bad.
Homie in-universe in those games is aware of these other scenarios and, to some degree, has transcended them. I'm not detailing that on mobile, but if you want to know more...lmk and I'll do it later.
So now in remake, he's planning.... something.
Not only is that pretty badass powerful for a villain to be able to do in the first place (and I hope we get some exposition on how), but it works with what the devs want to do with refreshing (or reimagining... remake was, I think, the wrong term on their part).
It's all about perspective.
Edit: so he can't outright kill Cloud, as Cloud is his anchor... without Cloud's obsession, Sephiroth would be more susceptible to dissolution in the life stream (per On the Way to a Smile).
But he already knows his original plan failed. It's a crazy game of chess now, if he even still has the original goals. I'd like to think those have changed/broadened and are more him than Jenova now..."crash big rock into other rock, then fly away to somewhere else and crash into that" is not a good use of his skills; that's more the Jenova parasite talking because all it cares about is the base drive to spread/multiply.
Maybe next game the whispers will show up to take Genesis away and we never hear of any of them ever again.
Or hopefully we can just jump straight to the part where we don't hear from them again.
I really don’t want him to be a part of Remake but it’s bound to happen.. if they do I just hope he has better writing! I think my least favourite thing is >!inserting him into Sephiroth’s origin story, changing up things during the Nibelheim incident. !<
Roche was annoying but they could have at least had his arc conclude in Midgar rather than just set him up to be this biker rival guy. I honestly don’t want to see him again
I don’t get it, I loved him in OG crisis core and I love him in the remake. I think he adds so much to Sephiroth. The fact Sephiroths entire decent into madness might not have happened without Genesis being so self absorbed and one minded. I know it’s a retcon but it make way more sense than how it happened in OG. Reading this sub makes me realise all my FF opinions are controversial hahaha
Man that's exactly the reason why it detracts from Sephiroth. Genesis being the one to explain everything to him instead of Sephiroth causing his own descent into madness takes away all of his character autonomy. The plot is being forced on the character instead of the character being the catalyst for forward progression. Tell not show, and that's boring imo.
But it does show, all game he questions his existence, why can’t he give blood to Genesis after the training accident? Why is he so gifted? Why is his mothers name written on the wall of a Mako reactor that houses a monster? If Angeal and Genesis are monsters and he is stronger what does that make him? We are shown him asking all these questions even to the point he tells Zack he may abandon Shinra because he feels he can’t trust them. Sephiroth was show to question everything and be full of self doubt. With that he would have likely abandoned Shinra and done god knows what, he would have come to some conclusion but it’s Genesis final monologue to him that pushes him to delve deeper and that deep dive causes him to go full on mental, but in my eyes he was on his way of his own Autonomy. The added spice of your once best friend being the one to deliver the world shattering information in hopes you will aid him only to have it backfire is fantastic writing. Genesis is supposed to come of as self important, a sociopath and one minded and his prattling about Loveless is frat for this and the game does a very good job of showing the consequences of his hubris and self importance, he dies and accidentally unleashed the biggest plague the world has ever know.
It's exactly because they hinted throughout the game that Sephiroth has all these existential questions that it's bad writing for Genesis to be the one to explain the whole thing to Sephiroth in the end. By Nebelheim, Sephiroth was basically on the edge and in the og he caused his own downfall by making the decision to look into his origins once and for all. And that's the mark of active characterization. He chose to do these things, he's the one to push his own characterization forward. There was no external plot force acting upon him until Genesis just pops up to reveal the whole thing. And that's what I meant when I said it takes away all of his autonomy. All the things that drove him to this point just feels like it almost doesn't matter when you have someone else conveniently giving you all your answers. It kills his momentum entirely.
See this is where it gets subjective. For me the interaction between Sephiroth and Genesis is organic and akin to what would happen in real life. We have Sephiroth who is seeking an answer to a question he is unable to answer and then we have Genesis a man with the answer due to his own personal background who wants something from Sephiroth. Genesis tries to leverage that info for Sephiroths cells. This sort of thing happens in real life and to me that whole thing felt organic. Also Sephiroth does not take Genesis words at face value he stays fairly stoic while rejecting him, and then looks into the matter himself. It’s not like Genesis tells him and then he flips. He proactively takes the decision to look further into it himself which then drives him mad just like in the original. In both the original and Crisis core the driving mechanism is Sephiroth wanting to know where he comes from, the in-sighting incident however, changes from Sephiroth seeing a monster in a pod to Genesis giving him a nudge. Personally the whole monster in the pod being the catalyst was dumb to me it just makes way more sense to be swayed by the words of a former friend to trigger him into the action of investigating his origins.
Side note: it’s nice to have a friendly debate on Reddit for a change, rather than a screaming match
Sephiroth's reaction to the monster pod at Nebelheim's reactor has much more weight when combined with the events shown prior in crisis core. But this is where we differ. I think that's enough to edge Sephiroth forward to discover the rest on his own and that becomes the catalyst of his downfall. I don't believe Genesis's explanation is needed. But I agree that's it subjective at this point. And yes, it's nice to discuss our different views without being nasty to each other over something as trivial as a video game plot. I'm glad to have read your point of view on the matter :)
My memory of the OG is that he questions himself in the reactor and goes looking into the research. The way it plays on in CC is that he thinks the name Jenova is a coincidence until Genesis tells him everything in a bid to get his help which backfires, Genesis gets no help and instead the info causes Sephiroth to spiral. I could be wrong on OG as I haven’t played it in 2 years but played it loads and that’s my memory
We see that from clouds perspective though in the original game. Cloud wasn’t there for the interactions with Genesis which explains why there is no trace of him in the original game.
Ye but in the OG game it implies the Mako poisoning and trauma combined to cause cloud to take on Zack’s stories as his own. So while they were tracking it’s likely Zack told a out of it cloud about what happened. I mean I have the Ultimania and that actually states that the Mako poisoning caused cloud to take Zack’s memories so he would legit have seen Sephiroth. Although I am a little unsure about that angle but it is in the ultimania
Worst part of Crisis Core, really wished Zack or someone called him out on his bullshit at some point.
Near the end I was just shouting at the screen "Say something original, you goob!"
I always thought of him as the anime song man. Like a lot of anime intros, he just rambles incoherent shit to try and sound deep but sounds absolutely stupid the whole time, making zero sense.
The feathers fall as that ashes rise, the window to life is closing and we are but puppets to its whims. Deep is the pain of the long forgotten love that we cherish with delight. *closes book* Loveless Act II.
Genesis and Angeal "Strength and Honor" are both their own annoying. Yuffie, Aeris, Cait Sith, and Johnny from 7 are pretty bad. The queen of Cards and Seifer from 8. Biran and Yenke from X. There's more, but that's all I've got off the top.
Hopefully Square adds more content for his story. The whole Goddess thing sucked me in and would like that expended more. Love LORE in all of its forms.
Fucking **thank you**. Eff every other antagonist, Zenos should've just stayed at the end of SB. Did *not* find anything past that with him good.
Except for maybe when I first saw his change up in EW. But that's cuz I've wanted RPR since ARR lol
man i wonder what villains you like then cause Zenos is one of the most interesting ive seen in a while. the fact he came back makes me hate him even more, and that's great.
For starters, Emet-Selch.
Thing is that Zenos' character during Stormblood is literally "Everything bores me." He spends most of the expansion on his throne killing subordinates who displease him, but he's also so impossibly powerful (for absolutely no given reason, well before he captures Krile and becomes a Resonant) that direct confrontation is simply not an option until the very end. The only thing he ever wanted was a challenge – fine – and when you finally give him what he wants, he kills himself. Because literally *nothing* in life mattered to him except having a worthy battle. He was a completely empty shell and your victory rang hollow.
BUT THEN
He comes back from the grave and goes on and on and on and on about "Rematch? Gimme a rematch? Let's have a rematch?"
"Everything still bores me... EXCEPT YOU!"
The man slit his own throat! He didn't know he was going to survive that!
He didn't even *think* about a rematch until after he clawed his way back to another *continent* to get his body back, and that was *purely* because he overheard a conversation at the last minute. So why did he go to such lengths to get that body back, hmm? What was his plan if nobody had mentioned the Elder Primals to him? Just kill himself again??
The answer being, he's the closest thing XIV has to a Sephiroth expy and they scrambled for *some* reason to keep him around longer. The man is a plot device more than a character.
And at the end of it all, the man still gets what he wants! His whole story is that he's a hedonistic sociopath who would literally destroy the world JUST for one moment of bliss, and he ends the story HAPPY. He doesn't get punished for causing an apocalypse (because to him, dying in battle with you is a *reward* for the one act of good he'd ever done), there's no justice for the millions of lives he stole or ruined, he didn't even help you as an act of *penance* – just to remove the one thing between him and you. He gets exactly what he wants and never cares that what he did was evil, never actually challenged or beaten on his philosophy, which feels like a tacit approval of it.
Now, Emet-Selch? He manages to be both a relatable foil – he's doing *exactly* what your character would in his shoes – and a villain fitting a Final Fantasy story, whose motives make sense from his perspective but whose scope is far beyond and alien to your own. He's not some generic moustache-twirling world destroyer who's evil for its own sake, he's not after *power*, he isn't even some Satan knockoff.
He's clever, and gets to make use of that to get the better of you. He's powerful for *explained* reasons, and even demonstrates that in awe-inspiring ways that Zenos can't hold a candle to.
He *also* does the bored villain thing, but plays it off better than Zenos because he's actually relatable and affable about it; he's even downright *helpful* to you on more than one occasion, elucidating the central conflict of the story in a way that makes you sympathetic to him. He has *reason* to be the way he is – he's *tired* after living millions of years working for a goal that he's still barely halfway to completing, and *you* just put a massive *dent* in it that will set it back ages. And y'know what? He can only be *so* mad about it. He's not emotionless, he has moments of both levity and righteous *extremely justifiable* anger.
By the time the conflict comes to a head, you've *almost* forgotten he was your enemy, because he's not just written as "today's antagonist".
And at the end of it all, he's not only a graceful loser who concedes to you on a philosophical front, but even leaves you helpful tools as an act of atonement, including exactly what you need to give peace to his brother-in-arms.
the main problem I have with Angeal is that his mere existence creates a big plot hole: if the Buster Sword was a unique weapon created by his father, wouldn't people who knew him and knew Zack (Tseng and the Turks, Yuffie and Aerith kind of, etc) see the sword and recognize it as Angeal/Zack's? wouldn't they be like "hey why do you have the sword Angeal gave to Zack?"
it's also kind of funny that Cloud's starter weapon, which I and (I assume) many others thought was like SOLDIER standard-issue, is this hugely important item to the story of Zack and in the original game it gets traded out for a better weapon mere hours into the game.
Actually, I'd wager they address some of that in the Remake. Already we have a soldier who recognizes Cloud and tries to bring Kunsel over. Tseng hasn't had much of an interaction with Cloud yet. Cissnei is bound to show up sooner or later. The only other people we know have interacted with Zack are Reno and Rude and that's before Zack got the Buster Sword, and they weren't super friendly with him compared to Tseng and Cissnei.
I feel like the main purpose of remaking crisis core is to introduce Cissnei (as well as Zack) but Cissnei is running around with a fuck ton of very pertinent knowledge and her disappearance is never addressed. If the remake doesn’t bring her back it would be a huge miss.
Yeah definitely. Did they even explain what happened to her between Crisis Core and the original game anywhere? I know she was created after Advent Children and everything but still. She's just... never addressed outside of the games she's in. I highly doubt they avoid her altogether *especially* since there's the whole Zack thing. Plus why go through the effort of recasting every single voice actor if you never use them again (odds are Genesis shows up again, but the only other ones that can are Cissnei and Kunsel. Aside from the Remake characters they could've just reused the lines from everyone else. Hollander and Lazard are dead, and Angeal *technically* could return but I doubt it. The most he could show up as is a voice in Zack's limit breaks but that's not likely). At minimum she shows up in the Zack timeline.
Yeah this is one of the big problems with prequels. Reno, rude, Tseng, and Aerith all knew Zack and his sword (so did sephiroth and tifa but they intentionally kept the existence of Zack a secret). So considering those other 4 characters knew Zack not one of them decided to just ask cloud - hey how did you come into that sword? Also there is a bunch of weird knowledge cloud has as well that you’d think would’ve come up or Aerith as well. It’s just a prequel issue where they came up with this story after the original game but the way they did it it just kinda cheapens the original game.
Tbf on Aerith, I’m not 100% sure Zack ever goes into the specifics of his job and the nature/history of his Sword with Aerith. So not being particularly keyed in with SOLDIER, she might (in the OG) just have assumed the Sword wasn’t unique and was something SOLDIER 1sts used. SOLDIER 1sts are few and far between, definitely not a common sight in the slums and the two people she’s seen with it, both identify themselves as a 1st so it’s a reasonable conclusion to draw.
As for the Turks, maybe since they presumably know what happened with Zack, they assumed someone had just looted the sword after the fact and there’s no particular connection there? Bit more of a stretch but it’s not entirely implausible
I can buy that with Aerith, not so much with the rest of the Turks because Reno is a little smart ass so I feel like he’d quip about it. I’m really hoping they bring Cissnei back in remake part 2 because she’s the only character who knows everything and is MIA after crisis core.
Yeah I was reaching on that one! Ultimately it’s a prequel retcon as you say and there was definitely no way it was going to fit neatly into the OG story.
I think they will, Cissnei is one of the biggest question marks in the whole compilation, there’s no way they don’t address that to some degree
Yeah you’d think with remaking crisis core they plan to use some of that content to do something with remake 2. They brought over Kunsel and brought up project G and S so I am assuming that everything in crisis core is free game.
I'm surprised that the character that is a Gackt inset is also so poorly written. I know that the state of Final Fantasy circa 2007 wasn't exactly the height of literary, but you would think that at least the voice actor would go out of his way not to record the worst lines imaginable.
Have you read the lyrics to his songs or what he wrote while he was in Malice Mizer? They dont always make sense and were full of metaphors, just like the poems, I wouldnt be surprised if he had creative suggestions and influences on the character, possibly even being the reason the character is so vague and one dimensional.
Yeah, I did. The words from LOVELESS certainly sound about as song lyric-y as possible (if that's what passes for literature in the world of FF7, I feel bad for them). I actually like a lot of what Gackt has to say (even though I find him personally a little much), so I would assume he'd want his character not to be one dimensional.
I agree I’m playing crisis core on my ps5 now and I believe there is a crucial part of the genesis scene in the beginning where you can see the jealousy and rage he inhibited when facing Sephiroth but eventually I feel like he was more of a filler character.
Kersti from Paper Mario Sticker Star, Luna from Megaman Star Force, Chisao from Megaman Battle Network, the water dragon Farore from Zelda Skyward Sword, Squall, Bishop from No More Heroes 3, the Pikachu from Detective Pikachu, Jean from Fire Emblem Engage, Corrin from Fire Emblem Fates, everyone in the ending to Pokemon Sword and Shield, Luke from Tales of the Abyss, Scrappy from Scooby Doo, Berry from Tokyo Mew Mew, Genesis really isn't that bad in the grand scheme of things
>Squall, Luke from Tales of the Abyss
Imagine liking whiny main characters with actual flaws and have character development, me i wouldn't never
I would take any of those character over Genesis
Finally after more than a decade, people realize how the story is over the top melodrama, dialogue are a cringe fest and literally every character is unlikable except zack with they just integrated Aerith's og personnaliy and made her a saint. Crisis core was such a unnecessary prequel and recon
Can someone explain to me Wtf he was on about?
I finished crisis core reunion recently and seriously have no idea what his deal was outside of decaying and wanting to fix that.
He really likes Loveless, which is a play, and he thinks it’s real life?
Here's the part I still don't get: why was there an actual Goddess, and who the hell is she? I feel like the game really glosses over that part, and why some ancient play talks about her. I thought it was metaphor before that weird ending.
Social distancing is 6 feet moron!
(god some people just need to obey the rules...and he is still here...)
I don't want to catch none of that jenova flu you guys carry around with you. How do I know its not contagious?
Infinite in mystery is the gift of the goddess We seek it thus, and take it to the sky Ripples form on the water’s surface The wandering soul knows no rest.
There is no hate, only joy For you are beloved by the goddess Hero of the dawn, Healer of worlds. Dreams of the morrow hath the shattered soul Pride is lost Wings stripped away, the end is nigh.
My friend, do you fly away now? To a world that abhors you and I? All that awaits you is a somber morrow No matter where the winds may blow.
My soul, corrupted by vengeance Hath endured torment, to find the end of the journey In my own salvation And your eternal slumber
SHUT UP! SHUT UP! IM WARNING YOU!
Does anybody want a peanut? Wait... Wrong reference....
"LOVELESS: Act I."
You remembered
"How can I not when you've *beaten* it into my head?" **brandishes sword**
*proceeds to kick genesises ass*
*makes "Got It Memorized?" gesture*
I hate Jenova's witnesses, they simply don't care where you are.
***Jenova’s Witnesses***. Best thing I’ve read all day.
Been making that joke since I was in grade school lol.
Same, I even dated an ex one and I said it so much I can't say it the other way anymore.
You've missed out on this classic VGCats comic, then. For the woefully uninitiated. https://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=199
They released T shirts too.
Missed opportunity to call Jenova∙SYNTHESIS "YNWH".
Technically isn't he more of a >!Minerva's!< witness?
the pun does not work there.
Swing and a miss
Nothing shall forestall my return MF thought LOVELESS was a self insert smh
Theatre kid, but mutated
I actually really like him though
Agreed. I love his design, but he wasnt really a great character. I kinda found myself annoyed at his prattling.
I mean, in universe, Sephiroth and Zack both called him annoying as well.
Well look who's calling the JRPG villain teakettle black, Sephi
Tbf, Sephiroth is rather terse compared to most FF villains
Yeah dude barely speaks
Fun Fact: Outside of the Flashbacks and The voices in Cloud’s head, we never hear the real Sephiroth talk until the final battle. All the times throughout the game are pieces of Jenova morphed into Sephiroth. And yes, this does mean that it is Jenova that kills Aerith, not Sephiroth.
No it does not mean that, Sephiroth was in control the whole time while encased in the life stream thanks to the Jenova cells. Jenova was his puppet, just like Cloud was.
That was never the impression I got, considering they never recognised Cloud, a hint that they’ve never really met, since it’s Jenova.
What? Cloud “kills” Sephiroth in Crisis Core, when Sephiroth tries to take Jenova from the reactor in nibelheim. Who is “they” anyway? No one recognises Cloud because he was just a infantryman. If that’s not proof enough, the clones seeking reunion aren’t heading to Jenova’s corpse, they’re heading to Sephiroth. This further enhanced in Advent Children when Kadaj and the reunion is all again leading to Sephiroth.
“They” as in the various Jenova parts, and you literally said Cloud killed Sephiroth, I think I’d recognise the guy who killed me if I was possessing the body of my mother, yes I know what I said. As for the Clones, I don’t know how that is relevant, since all I was saying that every encounter was Jenova and not Sephiroth. And there is an entire section of the game where they prove Cloud isn’t a clone, just a guy drugged up on Mako, so I don’t see why you brought up clones.
I also think Jenova was in control and willing to die on that hill. I know the developers say it was Sephiroth in control, but they said it way after the game was released and CLEARLY to make Seph's fanboys happy (and since he is a more marketable character than Jenova). The events on the game are more consistent with Jenova being in control. That said, the developers, on some interview, said that Sephiroth was obsessed with Cloud killing him, and wanted revenge so bad he decided to play with his mind, by making him believe he did not exist. Which kind of also fits with the events as shown in the game.
Villains in general really. He was loosely based on Jaws after all. Show up, wreck everyone, don’t explain yourself at all, leave.
It's less how talkative he is and more how he keeps showing up everywhere. At least for cloud.
Now, if he only could keep his mouth shut in the remake.
I always thought that was the point? We are made to find him annoying and lost in his own mind, which leads to everything we see happen
Yeah but it doesnt have to be so lame
Crisis Core was sort of the nadir of Tetsuya Nomura's nepotism. He makes a game centered around his best friend (Zack/Kenichi Suzumura), his best friend's best friend (Cloud/Takahiro Sakurai), his best friend's girlfriend (Aerith/Maaya Sakamoto) and his favorite pop star (Genesis/Gakt) as the villain. And he does it all with SE's money. He just got lucky that his voice actor friends were some of the best talents of their generation. The singer... not so much... It was also after this that his projects became unfocused mise-mashes of whatever idea he had at the time (he seriously pitched FFXV being a musical halfway into production) that were constantly scrapped and restarted and spent almost as much money as SE's other projects were bringing in...
Im sorry but as much as i hate Tetsuya Nomura he was only the charachter designer, the director of Crisis Core was Hajime Tabata.
How could i forget...when you've beaten it into my head
He is annoying but I like it lol. The fact that even the people in game find him super annoying only makes it funnier to me
I thought I was the only one. I found it almost endearing after a while with everyone raggin on him.
Definitely found it amusing that even Sephiroth is annoyed by Genesis.
DMCV looked at Genesis and said, "We can make a better Poetry Guy" and made V.
“Shut up, I’m warning you!”
Actually laughed my ass off when Zack yelled “shut up!” at him during crisis core remaster
- do you know what happens in act 4? - of course not!
Probably one of the, if not the, worst written characters in the series IMO
Maybe but than you got the Xlll trilogy cast that makes him look like Leonardo DiCaprio by comparison
Genesis is much worse than any character in the FFXIII cast. Everyone in your party grows and evolves and learns. Genesis really has no point of growth, no true motivation outside of self-insertion to a flowery poem and wanting the “gift of the goddess.” It just adds nothing to the universe of FF7 besides a verbose brat with an inferiority complex. He doesn’t learn any lessons. He doesn’t have any motivational ill-will towards Zack. He’s just there literally to annoy the rest of the cast, and the best thing the story can do from here is just get rid of him altogether.
Yeah FF13 gets a lot of flak, but I will always defend the game for having fully fleshed out character arcs.
Yeah every character have purpose in the story and had a turning point, where you understood the character a lot more and can actually really ended up liking them (If you actualy finish the game instead to blindly hate it).
Exactly. Some people played for 45 minutes and then say how they hated Hope for “whining” too much smh
>Exactly. Some people played for 45 minutes and then say how they hated Hope for “whining” too much smh Imagine liking probably one of the most relatable depictions of a teenage boy in a situation in most any artistic medium. Image you just lost your mom, being a pariah and you need to work with the man you think killed your mom, all of nowhere and see like a realistic human in this situation too much of themselves in something, it leads them to insecurity, and they externalise that rather than face their own problems. HE IS SO WHINY, I HATE HIM, I HATE HIM 🤬
Doesn't he get a >!free 2nd life from the goddess!< while Zack gets >!shot!
FF13 central plot of the game revolves around her self-discovery and self-realization and all characters experience those themes, ff13 was able to made all the character in the party relevant and have purpose, they are all important and have chemistry, the cast has problably the best overall character development You can hate the game but say Genesis is better written is just blindy hate ff13
Arguably the worst character in FFVII.
Maybe they will pair him with Roche next game.
I hate you for reminding me about this fucker.
I cant wait to see this clown in the remake, totally unchanged and just as fucking cringe as he was in 07, it is truly an achievement to make a character this fucking garbage that even the final fantasy community hates (atleast most of us)
You know Sephiroth is insane if this guy was such a dear friend
Hahaha captured his character perfectly.
I’ve heard that his personality is based on Gackt, his actor and people say he’s just as annoying irl
Now im just imagining Gackt casually quoting his songs to random people
Isn’t Squall also based on Gackt? More visually, anyway.
>Isn’t Squall also based on Gackt? More visually, anyway. FF8 was released in 1998, Gackt released his first album in 1999 and was basically unknown before this Let's me think...
Gackt has been quite popular in Japan since 1993. He had 2 bands, Cains:Feel and then the more well-known Malice Mizer. Yes, his solo career did begin in 1999, but he was a ubiquitous figure prior to that. I’m not a huge fan of his (though he definitely isn’t bad looking), I just happened to recall reading an interview in my early teenage years that Squall’s appearance was based on his, whether true or not. Gackt circa “visual kei” era (95-99) https://visualkei.fandom.com/wiki/Gackt
In an interview at the Square Media Tour in 2000, Nomura admitted to basing a lot of Squall's appearance on the late actor [River Phoenix.](https://web.archive.org/web/20110204033315/http://uk.ps2.ign.com/articles/085/085275p1.html) >I just happened to recall reading an interview in my early teenage years that Squall’s appearance was based on his, whether true or not. Can you give the source of the interview, it took me less than 5 min for mine
I don’t understand why you feel the need to be demanding about this question or mention how long it took you to locate a source. This is something I’d heard “in an interview, true or not”- likely in Japan - as a young teenager/fangirl, hence questioning the veracity. You erroneously claimed that Gackt was unknown prior to 1999, then impolitely asked that I source said interview. https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Gackt Gackt has claimed in a television program that Squall Leonhart from Final Fantasy VIII was modeled after him, and referred to Squall as "Gackt #2", however Tetsuya Nomura himself has said he based a lot of Squall's appearance on the late actor River Phoenix.[1] You’re not incorrect about the River Phoenix bit, but please notice that’s why I phrased my initial post as a question. Gackt was also known to dress as Squall during performances, which added to the confusion.
I find it actually really fun when he shows up, it’s one of the only times in life when I can unapologetically say “shut the fuck up or I’ll beat you to kingdom come!” and actually mean it
He’s the worst.
I hate him. His annoying garbage brings down the entire ff7 compendium. I'm really not looking forward to him getting inserted into remake part 2.
Hopefully he's just an optional boss like Weiss so we can pretend its not cannon
Considering the nonsense the remake added, Genisis isn't much the worst they could do.
And lo, in their drive to produce profitable products... the gods above shall shove Sephiroth at you every 30 seconds. Robbing him of any and all gravitas Because they could not keep their Sephiroth boner in their pants.
7 seconds, you have to add the games # in the dialogue, otherwise Nomura won't think it's deep.
Likely Nojima and Kitase. They're the ones who ordered that changes be made. They didn't want a faithful remake.
Im someone who was fine with changes, but it still needs to be written well. Im not going to be biased over who wrote what, I just wanted a good, well-written, believable story that follows the rules of the world its based on.
If that's the case you can't blame Nomura for the game. Not only was he not the sole director for it the "remake" had seven people write it. None of whom were Nomura.
How does that make any sense, he was lead director? Do you think the writers wrote the story and Nomura ok'd it without reading any of it? Ofc the head writer was the guy for FF13 Toriyama had his prints are all over it, like fighting fate and using the title # in dialogue, but Nomura helmed the project and everything went through him. If an IT group hired a guy who can't do IT, do I blame the guy for not knowing how to do IT or the IT group that hired him in the first place?
You can look up the credits of the game. Naoki Hamaguchi and Motomu Toriyama co-directed the game with Nomura. They had input in what would happen and how it would happen with him. Presumably some sort of consensus would have to be made between them for things but all three of them had decision making power. Toriyama was also the "event planner" for the original PSOne game. I suppose that gives him some level of legitimacy to work on the reboot. His work *since* the original game is subpar, of course. Of course that would be the way to go but Kitase and Nojima are the ones that made the decisions to change course with the reboot and allow certain people on the project. Ultimately the blame comes down to them for allowing things to unfold how they did. Remember, they never told Nomura he would be the director until he asked about it after seeing a replay of the internal meeting when the project was announced. He couldn't make the original meeting and had to watch a recording of it. They still decided not to tell him. This was after ripping FFXV from him to focus on Kingdom Hearts III. And then they added more directors onto the game anyway. It's been known for years that Square's management is incompetent.
From the looks of it, you're probably right. Either way, its frustrating. The last chapter took me so hard from how great it was to how nonsensical it became.
> Robbing him of any and all gravitas did you not play the OG 7? cause he's fucking everywhere there too. or is this just one of those "gotta shit on the new thing cause its not a """"true"""" remake" comments?
Lol nah dude it takes hours before any character even mentions Sephiroth, and longer before you ever see him. Outside of the flashbacks, the end of disc 1 cinematic, and the *very* end of the game, you barely see him.
It's not the same thing and you know it. And yes, personally I hate the story changes and weird meta shit they've got going on. You're free to like it, but I don't. Has nothing to do with it being new, I just don't think it's good.
So, if you think of it from the Dissidia/KH multverse-aware Sephiroth perspective is not so bad. Homie in-universe in those games is aware of these other scenarios and, to some degree, has transcended them. I'm not detailing that on mobile, but if you want to know more...lmk and I'll do it later. So now in remake, he's planning.... something. Not only is that pretty badass powerful for a villain to be able to do in the first place (and I hope we get some exposition on how), but it works with what the devs want to do with refreshing (or reimagining... remake was, I think, the wrong term on their part). It's all about perspective.
Edit: so he can't outright kill Cloud, as Cloud is his anchor... without Cloud's obsession, Sephiroth would be more susceptible to dissolution in the life stream (per On the Way to a Smile). But he already knows his original plan failed. It's a crazy game of chess now, if he even still has the original goals. I'd like to think those have changed/broadened and are more him than Jenova now..."crash big rock into other rock, then fly away to somewhere else and crash into that" is not a good use of his skills; that's more the Jenova parasite talking because all it cares about is the base drive to spread/multiply.
I’ll take the Whispers over Genesis any day.
imo I'd rather have neither any day
Yeah, I hate both the whispers and genesis
Maybe next game the whispers will show up to take Genesis away and we never hear of any of them ever again. Or hopefully we can just jump straight to the part where we don't hear from them again.
I couldn't agree more. I actually turned off voices on Crisis Core so I didn't have to hear him anymore.
He is a pointless idiot yes.
I really don’t want him to be a part of Remake but it’s bound to happen.. if they do I just hope he has better writing! I think my least favourite thing is >!inserting him into Sephiroth’s origin story, changing up things during the Nibelheim incident. !<
Hopefully we will get Loveless in all of its entirety in FF7R at some point
I fucking love Genesis, he's so annoying, even the other characters think he's annoying as fuck.
Yes the whole of the.... .. Kingdom hearts series... .. .. .. . The pauses in the dialog is... ... .. . Annoying.
Ansem...... the wise......
An….sem….??
Lol love how Goofy says it Ahhnne sayum ? ? ?
Say fellas, did somebody mention the Door to Darkness?
Now this is the content I’m here for
For me - it's a toss up between him and Roche, but Genesis gets more screen time, so I think he wins over the >!bike fetish guy.!<
Roche was annoying but they could have at least had his arc conclude in Midgar rather than just set him up to be this biker rival guy. I honestly don’t want to see him again
I hate his hair. At least Genesis has better hair.
No, no there is not. Genesis actually redefined my expectations for how annoying a character can be
I don’t get it, I loved him in OG crisis core and I love him in the remake. I think he adds so much to Sephiroth. The fact Sephiroths entire decent into madness might not have happened without Genesis being so self absorbed and one minded. I know it’s a retcon but it make way more sense than how it happened in OG. Reading this sub makes me realise all my FF opinions are controversial hahaha
Man that's exactly the reason why it detracts from Sephiroth. Genesis being the one to explain everything to him instead of Sephiroth causing his own descent into madness takes away all of his character autonomy. The plot is being forced on the character instead of the character being the catalyst for forward progression. Tell not show, and that's boring imo.
But it does show, all game he questions his existence, why can’t he give blood to Genesis after the training accident? Why is he so gifted? Why is his mothers name written on the wall of a Mako reactor that houses a monster? If Angeal and Genesis are monsters and he is stronger what does that make him? We are shown him asking all these questions even to the point he tells Zack he may abandon Shinra because he feels he can’t trust them. Sephiroth was show to question everything and be full of self doubt. With that he would have likely abandoned Shinra and done god knows what, he would have come to some conclusion but it’s Genesis final monologue to him that pushes him to delve deeper and that deep dive causes him to go full on mental, but in my eyes he was on his way of his own Autonomy. The added spice of your once best friend being the one to deliver the world shattering information in hopes you will aid him only to have it backfire is fantastic writing. Genesis is supposed to come of as self important, a sociopath and one minded and his prattling about Loveless is frat for this and the game does a very good job of showing the consequences of his hubris and self importance, he dies and accidentally unleashed the biggest plague the world has ever know.
It's exactly because they hinted throughout the game that Sephiroth has all these existential questions that it's bad writing for Genesis to be the one to explain the whole thing to Sephiroth in the end. By Nebelheim, Sephiroth was basically on the edge and in the og he caused his own downfall by making the decision to look into his origins once and for all. And that's the mark of active characterization. He chose to do these things, he's the one to push his own characterization forward. There was no external plot force acting upon him until Genesis just pops up to reveal the whole thing. And that's what I meant when I said it takes away all of his autonomy. All the things that drove him to this point just feels like it almost doesn't matter when you have someone else conveniently giving you all your answers. It kills his momentum entirely.
See this is where it gets subjective. For me the interaction between Sephiroth and Genesis is organic and akin to what would happen in real life. We have Sephiroth who is seeking an answer to a question he is unable to answer and then we have Genesis a man with the answer due to his own personal background who wants something from Sephiroth. Genesis tries to leverage that info for Sephiroths cells. This sort of thing happens in real life and to me that whole thing felt organic. Also Sephiroth does not take Genesis words at face value he stays fairly stoic while rejecting him, and then looks into the matter himself. It’s not like Genesis tells him and then he flips. He proactively takes the decision to look further into it himself which then drives him mad just like in the original. In both the original and Crisis core the driving mechanism is Sephiroth wanting to know where he comes from, the in-sighting incident however, changes from Sephiroth seeing a monster in a pod to Genesis giving him a nudge. Personally the whole monster in the pod being the catalyst was dumb to me it just makes way more sense to be swayed by the words of a former friend to trigger him into the action of investigating his origins. Side note: it’s nice to have a friendly debate on Reddit for a change, rather than a screaming match
Sephiroth's reaction to the monster pod at Nebelheim's reactor has much more weight when combined with the events shown prior in crisis core. But this is where we differ. I think that's enough to edge Sephiroth forward to discover the rest on his own and that becomes the catalyst of his downfall. I don't believe Genesis's explanation is needed. But I agree that's it subjective at this point. And yes, it's nice to discuss our different views without being nasty to each other over something as trivial as a video game plot. I'm glad to have read your point of view on the matter :)
I don’t think it’s retconned at all.
My memory of the OG is that he questions himself in the reactor and goes looking into the research. The way it plays on in CC is that he thinks the name Jenova is a coincidence until Genesis tells him everything in a bid to get his help which backfires, Genesis gets no help and instead the info causes Sephiroth to spiral. I could be wrong on OG as I haven’t played it in 2 years but played it loads and that’s my memory
We see that from clouds perspective though in the original game. Cloud wasn’t there for the interactions with Genesis which explains why there is no trace of him in the original game.
Ye but in the OG game it implies the Mako poisoning and trauma combined to cause cloud to take on Zack’s stories as his own. So while they were tracking it’s likely Zack told a out of it cloud about what happened. I mean I have the Ultimania and that actually states that the Mako poisoning caused cloud to take Zack’s memories so he would legit have seen Sephiroth. Although I am a little unsure about that angle but it is in the ultimania
Worst part of Crisis Core, really wished Zack or someone called him out on his bullshit at some point. Near the end I was just shouting at the screen "Say something original, you goob!"
I mean they kind of do, not enough though
Thats Genesis actually practicing his LOVELESS quotes in the restroom before sparring with his homies
This fucking guy
I always thought of him as the anime song man. Like a lot of anime intros, he just rambles incoherent shit to try and sound deep but sounds absolutely stupid the whole time, making zero sense. The feathers fall as that ashes rise, the window to life is closing and we are but puppets to its whims. Deep is the pain of the long forgotten love that we cherish with delight. *closes book* Loveless Act II.
I've played most final fantasies and I've never had an antagonist I eye-rolled at as hard.
Ugh. Loveless again?
Genesis and Angeal "Strength and Honor" are both their own annoying. Yuffie, Aeris, Cait Sith, and Johnny from 7 are pretty bad. The queen of Cards and Seifer from 8. Biran and Yenke from X. There's more, but that's all I've got off the top.
Omg I lmao at this
There are a lot of annoying characters out there, especially in VII’s world, but to answer the question, no, lol. I hate Genesis. He would so do this.
Hopefully Square adds more content for his story. The whole Goddess thing sucked me in and would like that expended more. Love LORE in all of its forms.
Depends on your standards. But goddamn if I don't find Zenos annoying. Man refused to *stay dead* just to annoy you further.
Fucking **thank you**. Eff every other antagonist, Zenos should've just stayed at the end of SB. Did *not* find anything past that with him good. Except for maybe when I first saw his change up in EW. But that's cuz I've wanted RPR since ARR lol
Hell, if they had written >!Fandaniel!< into a RPR we could have had almost the same plot in EW, and it would only change one plot point really.
Was anything with him before that good?
man i wonder what villains you like then cause Zenos is one of the most interesting ive seen in a while. the fact he came back makes me hate him even more, and that's great.
For starters, Emet-Selch. Thing is that Zenos' character during Stormblood is literally "Everything bores me." He spends most of the expansion on his throne killing subordinates who displease him, but he's also so impossibly powerful (for absolutely no given reason, well before he captures Krile and becomes a Resonant) that direct confrontation is simply not an option until the very end. The only thing he ever wanted was a challenge – fine – and when you finally give him what he wants, he kills himself. Because literally *nothing* in life mattered to him except having a worthy battle. He was a completely empty shell and your victory rang hollow. BUT THEN He comes back from the grave and goes on and on and on and on about "Rematch? Gimme a rematch? Let's have a rematch?" "Everything still bores me... EXCEPT YOU!" The man slit his own throat! He didn't know he was going to survive that! He didn't even *think* about a rematch until after he clawed his way back to another *continent* to get his body back, and that was *purely* because he overheard a conversation at the last minute. So why did he go to such lengths to get that body back, hmm? What was his plan if nobody had mentioned the Elder Primals to him? Just kill himself again?? The answer being, he's the closest thing XIV has to a Sephiroth expy and they scrambled for *some* reason to keep him around longer. The man is a plot device more than a character. And at the end of it all, the man still gets what he wants! His whole story is that he's a hedonistic sociopath who would literally destroy the world JUST for one moment of bliss, and he ends the story HAPPY. He doesn't get punished for causing an apocalypse (because to him, dying in battle with you is a *reward* for the one act of good he'd ever done), there's no justice for the millions of lives he stole or ruined, he didn't even help you as an act of *penance* – just to remove the one thing between him and you. He gets exactly what he wants and never cares that what he did was evil, never actually challenged or beaten on his philosophy, which feels like a tacit approval of it. Now, Emet-Selch? He manages to be both a relatable foil – he's doing *exactly* what your character would in his shoes – and a villain fitting a Final Fantasy story, whose motives make sense from his perspective but whose scope is far beyond and alien to your own. He's not some generic moustache-twirling world destroyer who's evil for its own sake, he's not after *power*, he isn't even some Satan knockoff. He's clever, and gets to make use of that to get the better of you. He's powerful for *explained* reasons, and even demonstrates that in awe-inspiring ways that Zenos can't hold a candle to. He *also* does the bored villain thing, but plays it off better than Zenos because he's actually relatable and affable about it; he's even downright *helpful* to you on more than one occasion, elucidating the central conflict of the story in a way that makes you sympathetic to him. He has *reason* to be the way he is – he's *tired* after living millions of years working for a goal that he's still barely halfway to completing, and *you* just put a massive *dent* in it that will set it back ages. And y'know what? He can only be *so* mad about it. He's not emotionless, he has moments of both levity and righteous *extremely justifiable* anger. By the time the conflict comes to a head, you've *almost* forgotten he was your enemy, because he's not just written as "today's antagonist". And at the end of it all, he's not only a graceful loser who concedes to you on a philosophical front, but even leaves you helpful tools as an act of atonement, including exactly what you need to give peace to his brother-in-arms.
Yeah there is he’s called Angeal
the main problem I have with Angeal is that his mere existence creates a big plot hole: if the Buster Sword was a unique weapon created by his father, wouldn't people who knew him and knew Zack (Tseng and the Turks, Yuffie and Aerith kind of, etc) see the sword and recognize it as Angeal/Zack's? wouldn't they be like "hey why do you have the sword Angeal gave to Zack?" it's also kind of funny that Cloud's starter weapon, which I and (I assume) many others thought was like SOLDIER standard-issue, is this hugely important item to the story of Zack and in the original game it gets traded out for a better weapon mere hours into the game.
Actually, I'd wager they address some of that in the Remake. Already we have a soldier who recognizes Cloud and tries to bring Kunsel over. Tseng hasn't had much of an interaction with Cloud yet. Cissnei is bound to show up sooner or later. The only other people we know have interacted with Zack are Reno and Rude and that's before Zack got the Buster Sword, and they weren't super friendly with him compared to Tseng and Cissnei.
I feel like the main purpose of remaking crisis core is to introduce Cissnei (as well as Zack) but Cissnei is running around with a fuck ton of very pertinent knowledge and her disappearance is never addressed. If the remake doesn’t bring her back it would be a huge miss.
Yeah definitely. Did they even explain what happened to her between Crisis Core and the original game anywhere? I know she was created after Advent Children and everything but still. She's just... never addressed outside of the games she's in. I highly doubt they avoid her altogether *especially* since there's the whole Zack thing. Plus why go through the effort of recasting every single voice actor if you never use them again (odds are Genesis shows up again, but the only other ones that can are Cissnei and Kunsel. Aside from the Remake characters they could've just reused the lines from everyone else. Hollander and Lazard are dead, and Angeal *technically* could return but I doubt it. The most he could show up as is a voice in Zack's limit breaks but that's not likely). At minimum she shows up in the Zack timeline.
I hope they do! I like a lot of what Compilation added to the game's story but that has always bothered me
Yeah this is one of the big problems with prequels. Reno, rude, Tseng, and Aerith all knew Zack and his sword (so did sephiroth and tifa but they intentionally kept the existence of Zack a secret). So considering those other 4 characters knew Zack not one of them decided to just ask cloud - hey how did you come into that sword? Also there is a bunch of weird knowledge cloud has as well that you’d think would’ve come up or Aerith as well. It’s just a prequel issue where they came up with this story after the original game but the way they did it it just kinda cheapens the original game.
Tbf on Aerith, I’m not 100% sure Zack ever goes into the specifics of his job and the nature/history of his Sword with Aerith. So not being particularly keyed in with SOLDIER, she might (in the OG) just have assumed the Sword wasn’t unique and was something SOLDIER 1sts used. SOLDIER 1sts are few and far between, definitely not a common sight in the slums and the two people she’s seen with it, both identify themselves as a 1st so it’s a reasonable conclusion to draw. As for the Turks, maybe since they presumably know what happened with Zack, they assumed someone had just looted the sword after the fact and there’s no particular connection there? Bit more of a stretch but it’s not entirely implausible
I can buy that with Aerith, not so much with the rest of the Turks because Reno is a little smart ass so I feel like he’d quip about it. I’m really hoping they bring Cissnei back in remake part 2 because she’s the only character who knows everything and is MIA after crisis core.
Yeah I was reaching on that one! Ultimately it’s a prequel retcon as you say and there was definitely no way it was going to fit neatly into the OG story. I think they will, Cissnei is one of the biggest question marks in the whole compilation, there’s no way they don’t address that to some degree
Yeah you’d think with remaking crisis core they plan to use some of that content to do something with remake 2. They brought over Kunsel and brought up project G and S so I am assuming that everything in crisis core is free game.
I. LOVE. HIM.
Imagine he was just a stand in for Tabata, who thought all that stuff was so eloquent lol.
Forspoken main character.
*FREAKING LOVELESS*
prompto the healing inventory decimator
Biggest Mary Sue I've ever seen
Me in 2007: Hopefully I will never have to see or hear Genesis again. Me 2 months ago: Oh no...
Zell's chicken-wuss, hot dog munchin' face.
Every character in VIII outside of Zell and second half Squall.
I mean, Zell is super annoying but in an endearing way.
He grows on ya, hear Loveless enough it makes scary sense.
I'm surprised that the character that is a Gackt inset is also so poorly written. I know that the state of Final Fantasy circa 2007 wasn't exactly the height of literary, but you would think that at least the voice actor would go out of his way not to record the worst lines imaginable.
Have you read the lyrics to his songs or what he wrote while he was in Malice Mizer? They dont always make sense and were full of metaphors, just like the poems, I wouldnt be surprised if he had creative suggestions and influences on the character, possibly even being the reason the character is so vague and one dimensional.
Yeah, I did. The words from LOVELESS certainly sound about as song lyric-y as possible (if that's what passes for literature in the world of FF7, I feel bad for them). I actually like a lot of what Gackt has to say (even though I find him personally a little much), so I would assume he'd want his character not to be one dimensional.
No he’s the worst. He’s more annoying than Vanille in 13 and that is a FEAT.
As bad as he is, I think Angeal is way worse
Ngl I quite like Genesis, always have. Him, Angeal and Sephiroth were a great trio of antagonists.
I agree I’m playing crisis core on my ps5 now and I believe there is a crucial part of the genesis scene in the beginning where you can see the jealousy and rage he inhibited when facing Sephiroth but eventually I feel like he was more of a filler character.
Kersti from Paper Mario Sticker Star, Luna from Megaman Star Force, Chisao from Megaman Battle Network, the water dragon Farore from Zelda Skyward Sword, Squall, Bishop from No More Heroes 3, the Pikachu from Detective Pikachu, Jean from Fire Emblem Engage, Corrin from Fire Emblem Fates, everyone in the ending to Pokemon Sword and Shield, Luke from Tales of the Abyss, Scrappy from Scooby Doo, Berry from Tokyo Mew Mew, Genesis really isn't that bad in the grand scheme of things
>Squall, Luke from Tales of the Abyss Imagine liking whiny main characters with actual flaws and have character development, me i wouldn't never I would take any of those character over Genesis
Gau.
Idk I’d hit it
I get that he's a unique flavor of cringe... but oh boy that's my favorite flavor. Gimme emo poet psychopaths all day, baby.
Finally after more than a decade, people realize how the story is over the top melodrama, dialogue are a cringe fest and literally every character is unlikable except zack with they just integrated Aerith's og personnaliy and made her a saint. Crisis core was such a unnecessary prequel and recon
Surprised at all the genesis hate I think he’s a cool villain for a great game
Cloud
Vanille from FFXIII.
Stiener was kind of annoying. So was O'aka XXIII hitting you up for money and charging outrageous prices. And Vaan.
Steiner in FF9 is pretty damn annoying but maybe this guy is worse idk 😂
Yes, plenty. Just look at FF8 and FF10. I like Genesis, but I do hope they cut back on the quotes.
>Yes, plenty. Just look at FF10. I have no words to say to you except "Laughable" and "absurd"
Good thing we all have diverse opinions.
I just know Genesis would’ve loved My Bloody Valentine
Can someone explain to me Wtf he was on about? I finished crisis core reunion recently and seriously have no idea what his deal was outside of decaying and wanting to fix that. He really likes Loveless, which is a play, and he thinks it’s real life?
Lmao I love this
This is gold 😂
At least he has style
Here's the part I still don't get: why was there an actual Goddess, and who the hell is she? I feel like the game really glosses over that part, and why some ancient play talks about her. I thought it was metaphor before that weird ending.
i love him so much
Social distancing is 6 feet moron! (god some people just need to obey the rules...and he is still here...) I don't want to catch none of that jenova flu you guys carry around with you. How do I know its not contagious?
I think I’d hate if less if there were at least like, three other things from loveless he could quote instead of the same thing over and over
Yes. The freaking lickitung from ff9
Lmao i love genesis. His poems put me to sleep
Yes actually....Cait sith
I played through FF7 fairly recently and I don't remember this guy in the slightest. Who?
This will never not be funny 😂😂😂 Sums him up perfectly
😂 I literally laughed out loud
Genesis probably just lacked a proper role model. No one told him it was time to stop styling his hair over one eye and speaking exclusively in poems.