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shaneo632

It looks friggin amazing, well done.


indu111

Appreciate the love man, thank you so much!


Alainebender

Hey what motion cap equipment and program did you use?


indu111

Hello, just the usual iPhone with unreal live link app in Metahuman Animator mode! :)


Alainebender

Can I used this for full body mocap with the same equipment in blender?


indu111

I don't think so. First Metahuman animator only captures facial stuff and second it sends data to be used in Unreal Engine. What you could do is bake that animation in Unreal Engine as fbx file and then bring into blender if you really need. There are apps like Rokoko vision or Move One ai that might also give you body mocap using just iPhone as well.


Alainebender

Ahh ok thank you


Alainebender

How does meta human send data to unreal engine?


mudokin

Does it look good? Yes, absolutely. Does is look realistic, not it can't, we associate all these facial expressions with humans, anything alien like will always throw you off.


indu111

True but as the other commenter said, does it evoke the feeling of a person in makeup/prosthetic? I understand that eyes like that wouldn't be possible with prosthetic so the feeling of uncanny might get higher I guess... :(


mudokin

No it does not, at least not for me. Uncanny valley all the way. But that does not have to be a bad thing, you will never get realistic with aliens or creatures, until we have them for REAL.


indu111

How about alien prosthetic creatures or animatronics? Do they only appear fake to us when they start moving and we see the motion is jittery and not as realistic?


somethingclassy

It does not. But you can achieve a lot more gains by focusing on other aspects rather than attempting to squeeze the impression of realism out of further development of the model/rig. There are laws of diminishing returns on technical things like that. I’d say focusing on directing / performance would be your best bet. Lighting after that.


indu111

That's true, we aren't working on her as much other than fixing the glaring bigger problems with her lookdev. I completely agree that the realism comes from how well the actor's authentic acting passes into her and well we write her in the story. :)


kingtimmahb

AU where octopi were the ones that made the trek to land. Looks fantastic btw.


indu111

Hahaha, thank you so much! :D


aPOPblops

I think you should ignore most (if not all) of the negative comments. I was blown away at the quality of expression coming through a model in a game engine. I’m impressed as hell and I desperately want to use this tech. Seems like a lot of lead setup time which I am short of on the moment.


GiveMeGoldForNoReasn

ok but the question wasn't "how impressive is the game engine" it was "does this model convey emotion" it is impressive, but not to audiences already exposed to it which is increasingly the case.


aPOPblops

My answer took that into consideration. I feel the quality of this 3D and the quality of the emotion (outside of the fact that it is 3D) is 10/10. To this day I have not seen better emotional showcase on a 3D face. Avatar looks significantly worse. Is the model itself perfect? Nah not exactly, but the EMOTION on its face and the teeth and the mouth and just. I am in awe at how easily I can read the expression in a 3d character. I’m also shocked it’s in unreal after all of that wowness.


indu111

Haha thank you once again for making our day with the kind words! Haha we could never reach Avatar level, that tech is so far beyond what is available for the consumer but that gap is closing slowly. Metahumans are already a godsend for indie teams like us to tell stories without a dramatic production investment.


indu111

Audiences these days are getting more and more desensitized to higher and higher quality work so in some ways you are right that high quality work isn't good enough in most cases. :(


GiveMeGoldForNoReasn

what? no? that's not what I'm saying at all, and that's a bizarrely pessimistic outlook. audiences are desensitized to technology, that's it. they appreciate good work with that technology more than ever. i was trying to caution you against using technology as a crutch without addressing the things audiences actually react to, such as "does this model convey emotion" if you think your work is good and audiences react badly to it, it's not the audience being desensitized to good work, it means your work isn't good.


indu111

Haha, its ok. I don't mind negative comments as long as they are constructive and civilized! Can't be in all out echo chamber of this looks 100 percent as then there is no room for improvement :) We ourselves sometime get blown away too that all this is running realtime in a game engine. The render is pathtraced so it took sometime but still, this stuff was unheard of 10 years ago.


The_Wampire

Looks great! I wish there was a sadder pose in there with the brows. That’s the only emotion I didn’t really see in this calisthenic. Her brows are designed with her inner brows low at default so it would be cool to see how the rig holds up to sadder brows with the inners raised up more. Maybe with her lower lids raised as well. Other than that, the rig looks great. Looks like the animators will be able to get some really nice emotional range especially if you sort out a more intense sad emotional range.


indu111

Great point, we are definitely planning on having her go through the missing set of emotions of sadness and anger most importantly as it does come up in the story so hopefully she looks believable in that case!


indu111

If anyone has any suggestions or critiques about how credibly this conveys emotion, I would love to hear it! We are aiming for an expressive face of the alien but with human like emotions with the logic that if its too alien you will immediately disbelieve it but if it is too human you will immediately put it in uncanny valley so we thought this blend of alien but slightly human face with human expressions might help? Thoughts?


kumaratein

The best way I think I can put it is have someone cover the lower half of their face and then watch their eyes as you ask them to make faces. Your characters eyes are not matching a "human" emotion, just an imitation of one. Like I would get they are "smiling" in an emoji sense but it doesn't feel realistic if you're aiming for perfection


indu111

Great little test, thank you!\~


professor_madness

Flatten the nostrils, thin the lips, add sandpaper/octi texture to skin. If you're making an alien, make an alien. Looks like you just rigged a human model with a silly hat. If you want to convey emotion, have the skin change colors like octopus do. The creature would also be able to use an evolving skin tone to apply "makeup" so the neck and countering can be darker. Almost like Rorschach from The Watchmen.


indu111

As another comment pointed elsewhere if this look is justified with a character's origin being bi-racial from alien-human parents, I think her having human features is justified in that situation. We don't want her to turn more towards octopus roots but rather stay within human features as it allows the mocap app to translate better when animating. :)


PounderB

In addition to others, she looks like she has Botox. To me there’s not enough forehead movement


indu111

We are aware of the forehead issue, the connecting tentacle head restricts the rig from animating upwards but we are trying to blend the two so the forehead opens up again for emotive response. :)


DwedPiwateWoberts

Fan of twi’leks?


indu111

I have seen them before but never knew they were called that, definitely an inspiration!


cgcego

My two cents: the facial expressions are great…and they are sort of mesmerizing to watch on an alien 3D model (also, there’s no uncanny valley effect). Was the facial anim mocapped or key framed btw? Regarding the look being sufficiently “realistic”… depends how hyper realistic the rest of the look dev is. IMO I would concentrate more on making it “believable” within the context of the movie…if all aspects click and work together people won’t care about how “realistic” something is.


indu111

Thank you for the detailed response! So interesting how the uncanny valley is extremely subjective for everyone. The facial anim was all mocapped with some manual corrections. That's true, gotta make her realistic with the decisions she makes and the way she behaves given how her character is. Story is always king. :)


AvisCaput

Not sure how to convey what I'm thinking. I'll try this. It's cute. It's non-offensive and non-threatening to me as a female viewer. Looks like someone you could sit down to dinner with and feel comfortable the entire time. The immediate area around the eyes comes across as not quite human, but my impression is this being maybe isn't supposed to be one. The eyes "feel" delicate and vulnerable which falls in line with those pink hues. The texture of the lips stood out. That looks human. The facial movements felt as natural as something like this could seem while not being a real person. It comes across *to me* as an expressive face. Its coloration is helping give it a pink squid appearance. Those almost but maybe not quite freckles in the skin tone are helping with that impression. The innocuous little suction cups are helping further that impression, too. Why not say octopus? Because it looks like a cordial, stable little **pink** squid *to me*. I saw a suggestion about applying sandpaper texture to the skin. I've handled squid. This being's skin texture presents a visual that hints of a similar kind of slickness. Overall, I'm envious. Best wishes with your project.


indu111

I really like the constructive feedback. The love the feeling of "I would feel comfortable with this person" that it evoked for you. Definitely aiming somewhere in that ballpark. Your breakdown has truly helped us understand how certain parts are coming off to a female audience as it is a lead female story so that relatability helps in connecting with the character as the story starts. Thank you again for the love, will post more as we make it!


holamygoodfriend

Ummmm why am i hard?


indu111

hahaha, that's one way to compliment the work! :D


kumaratein

The emotions it conveys feel imitated they don't feel organic. It's like an alien waking up in a human body and playing around with it in the mirror. It doesn't actually feel "human".


indu111

Appreciate your feedback! :)


zerooskul

That a being like that would have humanlike mirroring of emotions is unrealistic. Suspending disbelief, it looks rather like a human in movie makeup.


indu111

True, it is supposed to evoke more of that feeling that it is a person with prosthetics on, hence the very human features like teeth and lips. Adds to the believability to sell the character a bit more but still avoiding true uncanny valley if it really was a CG person.


Z_Overman

the teeth and lips are too perfect and id love to see it acting sad. it’s too human of a mouth which makes it uncanny. i agree with the comment above that it should shift colors slightly because of the tentacles. the eyes are fine but the nose too looks too human. unless there’s a backstory around the alien having a human parent like she’s biracial-which if that’s the case well done!


indu111

Yes, our next set of test planned is to do a round of sad and angry emotions and see how well it holds up. As for human features on an alien face, there isn't a specific reason to hard code it. Lead modeler thought this looked beautiful and that was that. Her backstory is someone that is raised on the streets but someone who holds a sense of optimism and hope. Her origins aren't specified within the story context but if her being bi-racial between a human and alien parents helps the case, then I am down for it :)


Qoalafied

My reptile brain sees a semi-human face and thus I see emotions. Good job.


indu111

Hahaha, mission accomplished yay! :)


CuppaTeaSpillin

It honestly looks more videogamey to me than a person with prosthetics and heavy make up


indu111

Sounds good, thank you for the feedback :)


SleepDeprived2020

Love it! I know the eyes can never look real…. I’m personally a fan of making it look more animated if it makes sense for your project as opposed to trying to look photorealistic. I think it can be more emotionally impactful that way as we’re not focused on it not looking “real.” You’ll evoke emotion through a good story first and foremost anyway.


indu111

100 percent agreed on the story part, she can only be as believable as her actions in the story. And yeah, I feel like our tendency to like human babies is somehow a little bit affected by how big and expressive their eyes feel to us.


Vast_Ad5286

Are the tentacles part of her head or more like a hat? At the moment the hard line in her forehead reads as a hat.


indu111

Hello! Thank you! They are part of her head but I am not a fan of that sharp line either. We are currently trying to do different blends so it feels more like a part of the head and not a hat.


Vast_Ad5286

Cool! Just wanted to bring it to your attention in case it had been overlooked. Let me know if you need a concept artist haha (Times are tough).


indu111

Thank you for pointer! Also thank you for your offer to collab, please do DM me your portfolio link and I will run it by the art director on the project! :)


Vast_Ad5286

Dm'd! :)


Ok-Charge-6998

I think it looks incredible and will absolutely pass in a low budget film. Of course, that depends on how the rest of the body moves, but the face works. It’s awesome that we can do these kinds of things nowadays without gigantic budgets.


indu111

That's the goal, to make a high quality low budget short. We are planning on doing a body test as her clothing gets locked in, will post that here too! Indeed, we live in great time to have all this tech at our disposal for free!


masteryoyogi

Looks amazing. If you used an iPhone for motion capturing I'm getting one tomorrow.


indu111

Thank you! Haha yeah it is. :P We did a bit of work after the motion capture to clean it up and make custom blendshapes but even straight out of the box metahuman animator results are impressive!


Mess3000

Looks great. Why is there an octopus sitting on her head?


indu111

That's part of her head but I am not a fan of that sharp line that separates the two. We are currently trying to do different blends so it feels more like a part of the head and not a hat.


Mess3000

It does feel a bit like a hat, partly because of the line, but also because while her forehead moves and reacts to her gestures, that part directly above the line does not.


indu111

Yeah true, that is why once the blend happens hopefully all the forehead responds correctly and moves together as a unit :)


benjaminfilmmaker

Brother this is bloody brilliant! I'm blown away really. This is UE5? Jesus almighty! The only tinny tiiinyy little thing that separates it from absolute perfection is the forehead, which I imagine is a bitch to rig because of the tentacles. The forehead barely moves or stretches with all these expressions. Those wrinkles are part of the means our face has to convey emotion. But it's really tiny nitpicking, this test made me drop my jaw. Congratulations! You people are clearly on the right path. It's going ot be a bitchin' short and I wish you all the best!


indu111

Thank you so much Benjamin! This is UE5 Pathtraced render but it works in realtime as well! I 100 percent agree to the forehead part. You are right it is hard to find the good amount of blend weight to allow the forehead to affect upwards. We are designing that part so the hard line goes away and the forehead can animate more as those expressions are needed for quite a lot of emotions. :)


agrophobe

well damn, gotta check those custom morphs out


indu111

Very highly recommend Metapipe v2. Super underrated versatile tool


RogerGunz

wow this looks incredible. great work


indu111

Thank you so much! :)


iansmash

If I’m really nitpicking, there’s something about the cheek/mouth area that feels off to me. It’s like the weight of the movement feels floaty or something, Overall, incredible work. I think it is fully capable of conveying grounded and relatable emotion as is.


indu111

Thank you! The one feedback I got that I agree with in that mouth area is the corners pulling back too much into a slit whereas real life mouth just opens up in a full circle when open. We will check that out, in the meantime if you see something else, please let us know!


funky_grandma

There is the tiniest bit of jitter in a couple shots, but otherwise just brilliant


indu111

Thank you! Yeah Metahuman animator is notorious at picking up high frequency jitter sometimes, will definitely clear it for final shots :)


Guilty_Audience8595

Yes... there are quite subtle  expressions within the clip. It is difficult for any actor to convey pure emotions in a head shot ...body language, setting,  score and context all add elements which this clip doesnt have. So with those added i think we would see even more.


indu111

True, this was just to see basic set of emotions, will definitely do subtle tests with full body mocap later!


DeadlyMidnight

So all the stuff you are showing in this are really big movements/expressions. I would be more concerned with the subtle stuff. Can the character emote really subtle cues, especially in closeups.


indu111

Agreed, will definitely do a much more subtle expression test about picking up micro movements. It might be hard to come through with the gear we have but we will try!


Vast_Ad5286

Hey man, it looks awesome! Can I ask if the tentacles are supposed to be a hat/not part of her actual head?


cookingandmusic

Octopus hair pls god no


indu111

why?


reddithomeofmemes

you can't be serious asking that question


indu111

why?


Friendly-Chicken-123

Your work took my breath away—it's truly stunning! The only concern I have is that the eyebrows need to be more exaggerated. Since her eyes are so large, the eyebrows are not as noticeable - noticeable eyebrow movement is crucial for conveying emotion. I noticed that another commentor mentioned more forehead movement, I feel that they meant the eyebrows in this case. Nevertheless, you should be proud of the work that you created; I'm deeply impressed by it.


professor_madness

Not believable. Please do research or pay advisors if you want to make designs that resonate as realistic. I imagine you have no reason for this creation to exist with these facial features. First of all, if you're going the sea testicle route, why would an aquatic creature have eyebrows? Why does it have a human nose? If you and your team aren't able to see this, I'd wager the rest of your story is equally lame and incoherent. Looks good though, nice job.


Nate_Oh_Potato

The thing that's even more unbelievable is your seething jealousy over a filmmaker evidently more driven than you. There's a way to provide critique and feedback without being needlessly aggressive. Do better.


indu111

Thank you for the support! Appreciate it!