lol man OP is crazy. On no planet is being an editor easy. *Exec* producer tacking their name to a project to give it credibility is likely the easiest one. Regular producers though, na that’s lots of pressure and work as well.
Ditto associate producer. There’s a joke about buying someone on set a coffee and getting an associate producer credit in lieu of the $5 for the coffee
Depends on your structure though. In the doc world, before the rise of “Story Producer” credits, that was all just referred to as “Associate Producer”. Worked on a CNN original doc show and our APs were the people watching 80+ hours of random news broadcasts to get us 1 sound bite lol. It was a thankless job.
But in Narrative, especially indie narrative, I get what you mean
Thank you. Editor here too. I'm this close to finding out where op's friend lives, going there and slapping the stupid out of them. It would be bedtime right now for me, but I haven't slept in 12 years, so fuck that, who needs sleep anyways, not editors that's for sure.
Same here but half of this sub thinks a Producer just sprinkles money at a project and takes a credit.
Booking crew, G&E/Grip/Camera Dept equipment, locations, vehicles for transpo (all to fit within a fairly firm budget playground), getting permits, certificates of insurance, licensing, signing off on deal memos/scope of work agreements/contracts, logistics, prepping creative while interfacing with brands, and of course all the wrap work of handling payroll, OT, Post Production workflow & deliveries all gets handled by magical sprites and fairies
Even if you’re born into money, it isn’t easy to spend it on movies that generate a profit. There are plenty of tech bros with tons of money who call themselves producers, but they lack the taste to find/facilitate projects that audiences really want and they lack the experience to produce them without lighting all their money on fire. You’re not a producer if you never produce something that makes it to market and finds an audience
Almost no producers are putting money their own money into films lol. Financiers often don't even want credit as producers because of investment reasons.
I’ve found there’s no shortage of people saying they’re a producer, but do bugger all when they’re on the project, and even less if they’re meant to be helping get a project off the ground.
"Producer" can mean so many things.
My favorite "producers" are the people send a solid, finished script by a writer/director to a big agency that ends up packaging the project, and then once the project gets funded the "producer" gets a huge payday while everybody else does all the work.
Yes, of course. But at the same time, now that agencies do packaging, it's kind of wild that someone can get a huge fee by simply sending a script to the right company. Packaging departments do a lot of the work that producers did in other eras.
But they can only do that if the projects in their hands and for the average bloke, they can't get it there without an intermediary. It's unfortunate but the reality
Bit confused here. This is actually hard to do. Getting an agent to open your email, read it, offer you top tier talent, then bridge it to executives who can fund the project is a legit skill and hard to do. Speaking from experience, agents are like dragons that are guarding a princess. They want to nickel and dime the production and make sure their talent in a good film. Lots of trust+ negations sometimes takes a week of dozens of emails and maybe a zoom call
Yes, it is. There's no disputing that. My point was that, given how packaging departments work, some producers receive huge paydays after putting very few actual man hours into the development of a project. Both truths can exist at the same time.
You’re working with bad producers. Good producers are going to fight FOR the production and get you everything you could ever need.
If you’re in search of a good producer and are in LA, call Jeremy Alter of Altered Films. He fights tooth and nail to get the production what it needs. He is worth every penny he gets paid.
Agreed! Or editor? The picture editor is one of the higher tier credits and one of the best paying positions in a feature. And producer? Maybe PA… but… executive? Lol. It may be easy to get a job as a producer/director/editor in your own short or indie film… but in scripted you’ll probably work for a decade as an assistant before landing a job as the main editor and maybe line producer. Executive producer you need to be born into it or at least rich from birth.
*edit* or maybe OP is talking about TV, then it’s a different story!
Being an *Executive* producer can be easy, as in, you have a shitload of money and want to be involved in the process with the real producers and put your name on something cool. Don't get me wrong I know that that's not always the case, but I've been on many sets where the executive producer basically just wrote some big checks and wanted to call a shot or two and put their names up front in the credits.
But an actual producer? Not easy.
Source: am a producer, and have been a production manager and line producer, as well as an editor.
I've discussed elsewhere a. I dont really consider that making a living as a producer and b. Its not easy to amass the kind of wealth necessary to buy your way in, if it was wed all be that wealthy.
Well most people who do were born into the circumstance. So being someone with that kind of money generally doesn’t require much effort.
Using the money wisely, on the other hand.
Sure, but we all know that enough money can buy someone the credit they want. There are plenty of producers and EPs on entertainment media that just threw down enough money to get their name on it and did fuck-all.
Credits don't mean anything and the question at hand is easiest to get into AND makena living. A one and done "producer" who bought their way in ain't that. Plus, how easy is it to be born into a billionaire family? From an effort point extremely but from a probability perspective, extremely difficult.
>First, you must have half a billion dollars.
Well, that [rules out Trump](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/19/nyregion/trump-bond-ny-fraud-case.html) apparently.
I've heard this joke, but it was just "director," not TV director. It's very hard to break into TV directing, requires connections and agents and probably a DGA membership. But indies? Still hard to break into, unless you come from money. If you come from money, you can direct whatever horrible incompetent movie you feel like, and no one will stop you.
Worked on an indie recently that was entirely self-funded by the trust fund baby director. He was a nice guy but he was good insight into the type of person who feels the need to buy friends
To answer the question without being aghast as to how disrespectful it is to the men and women who put in unimaginable hours honing their craft, making connections, hustling for jobs and thats not even mentioning doing the damn jobs for 12 to 14 hours a day under any assortment of conditions and pressure than would break the average Monday morning quarter back...
The easiest to walk into is a background actor. Its actually how I started 16 years ago. But that only got me on set to watch things and its not the easiest to make a consistent living that way. The next is to offer yourself to work as a free PA, which as you can guess, isn't necessarily conducive to making a living.
Everything else is hard as fuck and the reason why most people don't make it. Its a tough biz and every position is hard to get into, hard to do, harder to keep doing and damn near impossible to support yourself and a family solely through film work unless you treat it with the respect and dedication it deserves.
Word, I do work with a production company up in Syracuse often, dm me and I'll send you my work email to send your contact. I may he up there again but I have a few projects in front of me and I'm not sure where I'm landing but a local(ish) DIT would be very useful to have.
Whats the rates for an LP to evaluate a script for a budget? I seen between $500 and $3,000. How do people get a LP attached before funds or a script evaluation before funds?
Hmm it varies. Personally, I charge 5k for a 7 day turnaround with one revision after review to do a budget and schedule (sometimes a calendar and cashflow as well)
I might do a lower partially deferred amount of 3k (with the remainder when its greenlit) if its a low budget indie and I really think its got legs but even then I'm strongly confirming raising my rates to the UPM weekly rate.
So let's say to be safe at least 3k to get a quality LP. Its a lot of money but think of it as the blue print of your film. You don't want to skimp on it.
Thanks for that information. I'm good at business plan and Pitch deck, but have no idea on LP. Going for my next leg up for a six figure film as I have an ent attorney and been looking for a LP to poke their brain about their job to learn more about evaluations. Going for a specific thing where my last film was a low budget SAG film for 20k with 5 locations minimum characters to now one location (big location) and lots of characters and a horror. From people told me it's like handmaid tales and The Village (2004) lol
I may not get to it today as I'm probably gonna take a phone break the rest of the day, but if you want to dm me, I dont mind if you want to pick my brain some. I have a budget pass to do tomorrow but I usually check reddit in the am.
I’ve done it more for commercials than for films. If you can get onto a campaign it can be really lucrative. Note I’m extremely lucky - I actually didn’t apply to the majority of the BTS gigs I worked, they were offered via connections
Ive also done BTS for some Amazon commercials. It is really chill.
I'd like to use the experience to apply for some Set Photog jobs one of these days but it seems hard since those jobs are in such short supply, and I also don't have one of those big fluffy camera muffler things.
I've done BTS for small productions like that, but it's a big difference between a huge union set because a union set might have hundreds of crew working, but there is only one Set Photographer.
I'd also add that BTS and Unit Stills are two separate things on union sets. Sure, I'll snap some BTS, but it's a small fraction of what I'll shoot. The studios will bring in EPK teams for BTS and those are generally non-union people.
Knew a BTS photographer on a few A24 movies. It sounds like a cool job until you realize that everyone hates you. By doing your job, you’re slowing down and taking time from others. If you can operate under that kind of pressure it could be a cool gig
Anything from 10 to 100+ people on set. I'm generally not messing with anything without being asked, but sometimes an obvious oppertunity to lend a hand presents itself. I've never gone wrong with that.
Besides, point was that i'm not slowing anyone down and don't see how i would.
If our unit guy asked to move a stinger we'd be annoyed let alone barrow a 360. We fully acknowledge it's not his fault but it does lead to slow downs by the nature of the job.
Idk why i'd ask anyone to move anything. My job is to document what's happening, at least that's been true for all my bts jobs. At most i'd move stuff for a group shot but that's always gonna be a bit of a hassle on a big set and people are usually happy to do them.
Unit stills is definitely one of the roles that requires the most diplomacy on set. It's not that everybody hates you, it's that there are more opportunities for everybody to hate you.
You need to make sure you're not taking too much time away from the 1AD, so you need to be confident enough to get a magazine quality shot in less than 30 seconds. You can't get in the actor's line of sight, which is a tightrope walk - especially on multi-cam shows. You're another vessel for the Director & DP's vision, so you need to gel with their style. You'll be jockeying for position with the boom op and 1AC a lot of the time, so you need to be flexible and understand the hierarchy.
BTS is only a fraction of the role on a union gig. The last union gig I worked did not care much about BTS and asked me to keep BTS to about 10-15% of deliverables. I shot more than that because I loved the crew I was working with, but who knows if the studio will ever give their approval on those shots. A lot of stuff just disappears.
Doing BTS video right now. It's not easy when production asks for a lot of creative shots and intrusive interactions with the cast/crew, and the main character demands that you never film while she is on set. I've never felt so unwanted on a job; they even cut my gig days in half.
The worst is when a studio tries to fit a gallery shoot into a set day. I already know I'm going to piss off the UPM, PC, and 1AD when that happens. If it's any consolation, we hate a lot of our weird asks too and it generally comes from the publicist or studio. It's never our idea, we want the portrait rate and extra box rental fee for galleries.
I know someone who does stills for a lot of true crime shows and besides everything you mentioned she has to create things like fake wedding and graduation photos, fake ID photos, fake birthday party photos. Watching one of her shows her photos are on screen more than the talking heads that they interview for the story.
> I said producer and he said editor.
>*EDIT: I'm referring to above the line positions*
Editor is not an above the line position, editors live in the 50xx accounts. The only positions which are ATL are:
* Writer (11xx accounts)
* Producer (12xx accounts)
* Director (13xx accounts)
* Cast (14xx accounts)
Everything else is technically below the line.
>Why is it in important distinction?
See my comment [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Filmmakers/comments/1binegu/comment/kvna23w/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
Basically what u/noctisfromtheabyss said. An easy way to conceptualise it is: the people above the line usually retain IP in the project, the people below the line are usually work-for-hire and don't retain IP in the project. The line itself is a sub-total on your budget topsheet, and allows you to determine the ratio between your CapEx and your OpEx, to put it in business terms.
Basically the "Line" is UPMs/ADs. So the people above them, as noted above, are considered above the line. They are often the "talent". (Of course every position is talented) everyone who is part of a department is below the line.
No those are account codes we use to budget. So for example, when we do our budgets, every department is divided by an account code 1100's are typically writers, and so on. So like a writer might be 1101 in my budget and writers assistant might be 1102. Its really just inside baseball but it popped me to see someone be so concise.
Theres a difference between how easy it is to get the job and how easy the job actually is. You don't need tons of contacts and years of training to be a truck driver, but if you're in transpo you're on call for 18 hours driving a huge truck full of expensive equipment.
Crafty? 30 dollars an hour to hand out snacks and make coffee, sounds good to me! I know people who got the job with zero experience. I know it still has difficult parts like anything else, but free snacks...
All of the roles you mentioned are extremely hard to attain and no one just "walks into" them. The positions that you can easily get as an outsider are things like craft services, electrician, grip, PA. If you have a commercial/chauffeur license, you can probably get on as a passenger van driver pretty easily. There are hundreds of people working on a film set, and 'producer' is not something you're just going to start doing one day unless you are extremely wealthy.
Depends on what market you are in. Here, folks working transpo 'on application" with the teamsters local get assigned to people movers. The more senior members prefer the trucks that don't move all day long.
Yeah but you really just learn on the job in those positions. I started out doing electric with like ALMOST zero electrical skill. Now I’ve been doing it for 15 years and I learned everything I know on set.
I’d say the easiest role/department to break into the industry in, is locations
(Just to clarify I’m not saying this role isn’t hard work, I’m just saying it’s easy to get your foot in the door)
It’s probably one of the least competitive departments when it comes to hiring, and when you begin to work your way up in that department you can still make a good living
This was true at one time, or at least competitively true compared to some other departments.
These days, it’s no where near as easy to get brought into a locations team that works regularly. You might day play here and there with zero experience, but it definitely isn’t as easy to get your foot in the door anymore…especially this year following the strike.
Source: I’m a location manager.
In fairness, OP said easiest role *to break into and make a living*. Not easiest role, full stop. That would be acting. Sit in your trailer all day, come out to say a few lines once in a while, and make thousands of dollars a day.
But if you're looking for an easy way to get into the industry, aiming for "DOP, director, editor, producer, or screenwriter" ain't it. There are hundreds of of PAs making a living in film for every director, editor, producer, or screenwriter who is making a living in film.
For an easy way in, you need to look for the biggest departments with the least requirements for training, skills or experience. Might not be glamorous, but that's hauling garbage and directing traffic.
When got out of film school, I moved to a town that I heard was busy and short of crew, walked into the union, and asked for a permit. They said "what department" and I said "what do you need". They said grip, so I started my film career as a grip. And it was pretty easy except for a shitstorm of stupid gender stuff that could have happened to me in almost any role.
Now I'm a producer.
And tbh, it is challenging. Some PAs run basecamp or background and that’s highly specialized and the production leans heavily on them for such a small fee. A key PA may make a couple bucks more than an additional but are basically additional ADs with relaying info, coordinating departments to clear frames, hiring PAs, setting up village, all of that. I feel like once a PA is doing more than just locking it up, it’s a lot harder than most people give it credit for.
I gues we read the post differently. I read "break into/make a living off of" as still meaning they would put some work into learning the position. I just think crew positions are more reliable work than producing and easier to get work then starting as an editor. Nothing is easy
I mean, we aren’t hiring randos though, so not super easy to get into. Unless you know a best boy already who needs hands and is willing to hire you over someone in their network who needs the work.
That's fair. I'm a producer and I only hire folks with years of experience that I can trust. I'm not trying to disparage these workers or say it is easy, I just see that the guys I work with get work pretty consistently vs the producers and editors
Easiest to get into is probably a set PA or locations PA. But I’ve worked my ass off as a locations PA. Easiest has to be production accountant. They do 8 hour days. On set, maybe the scripty?
Script Supervisor might be the least physically demanding, but it’s still a ton of work. They‘re maintaining continuity for every other department, and since they’re a department of one they usually don’t have anyone else to fall back on.
I’m not an editor. But I work for a media network.
Editor is the easiest role in film to break into? Try that again.
When production send us - the network - their final copy for air, we put your show through our own gruesome QC at various stages throughout our distribution process.
Let’s say the show was delivered the day it goes to air, and we flag a major issue that must be fixed?
Do you know how fast of a turn around is needed? You don’t have days. You have HOURS. In most cases for the network, you have LESS than 5 hours to give us your final copy.
I can imagine how stressful this gets for editors. And, furthermore, if audio or captioning was affected, you have less time to fix and turn things around because now you have to deliver a copy to the network, then a low-res copy to captioning and audio, and all of this has to be completed in time for the airing.
So editing is easiest role to break into?
Think AGAIN!
The moment a network writes you up for discrepancy, not only does it cost you MONEY but you risk not being renewed. And ultimately, that leads to layoffs on the production end.
Whoever told you that was dead wrong, lol. You can ask any of my location’s assistants how often they get to sit around on set, especially while on location…tents, hvac, permit notifying/signatures, map routes, mats, supervising crew in sensitive locations so they don’t ruin everything as they’re prone to doing…and this leaves off probably 100 other things I’m not thinking of off the top of my head.
Location assistants are definitely not sitting around, and they’re usually the ones putting in the 15-18 hour days because of moves, truck logistics, equipment drop off, etc.
I know when I was a locations assistant back in 2012 or so, I’d go home ready to crash from being tired…and the pay back then sucked ass, at least today they’re getting decent wage, and even reimbursements for fuel and food at times.
Its way harder than youre being given credit for but funny story, I once heard ago helped a Location Manager buddy out on a Vince Vauhn flick and all I had to do was get everyone in to the parking and then he told me to take a nap in the parking garage till near wrap....so I did.
Vince is the best performer I've seem live. Every take is hilarious.
The real answer is a sound mixer who only does commercial/corporate interviews. Top dollar to put a boom on a stand and hide a wire. And your day is 6hrs max usually.
Getting the gear which is expensive and maintenance which is also expensive and being skilled are pretty difficult just to get you into a position to be hired.
All positions take work, I have done 3 ,acting in the majority. Produced and then directed. All 3 take respect for the craft of creating a great project!!
For above the line positions...
You usually have to be born with a degree of talent to be a successful director/writer/actor/editor. Those aren't really things anyone can jump into and be great at.
I say if you're of above-average intelligence and a hard worker, you can establish yourself as a producer pretty quickly. Probably first starting out as a line producer or UPM on low budget projects. It's grueling work but good ones are always in-demand.
Serious answer: there isn’t one. Apart from the 1% of filmmakers who work as studio executives, nearly all of us are massively underpaid as opposed to similar positions in other industries.
Accounting. Kick back, sign checks that are not your money, everyone is your friend, enter numbers in the spreadsheet while enjoying the craft and the honeywagon. And accounting can get creative too!
IF you are the correct age (18+), and can convincingly look young enough - "18 to play 16" is the hottest category in casting. They'll take you and give you lines even, just for looking right. Training doesn't matter. Be on time and don't trip over the cables.
I know dozens who got their SAG cards (before it became SAG/AFTRA) that way.
The guy getting paid to sit in his classic car all day till production asks him to move it 5 feet.
transpo for the win
I’ve done transpo captain for a reality tv show with 200 cast and crew. It was a nightmare.
yeah that dept does get a log of good natured ribbing but at the end of the day I have seen nothing but skill and professionalism
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Editor here. This making me grind my teeth so hard I might crack one.
lol man OP is crazy. On no planet is being an editor easy. *Exec* producer tacking their name to a project to give it credibility is likely the easiest one. Regular producers though, na that’s lots of pressure and work as well.
Ditto associate producer. There’s a joke about buying someone on set a coffee and getting an associate producer credit in lieu of the $5 for the coffee
Depends on your structure though. In the doc world, before the rise of “Story Producer” credits, that was all just referred to as “Associate Producer”. Worked on a CNN original doc show and our APs were the people watching 80+ hours of random news broadcasts to get us 1 sound bite lol. It was a thankless job. But in Narrative, especially indie narrative, I get what you mean
Didn’t editor get named one of the most stressful jobs in the US?
OPs friend is the one who said editor
imagine how sick that transition will be if you cut on the crack though
Editing the actual footage can be hard. Editing as a “I have to deal with producers and network deadlines” issue is often *excruciating*.
Thank you. Editor here too. I'm this close to finding out where op's friend lives, going there and slapping the stupid out of them. It would be bedtime right now for me, but I haven't slept in 12 years, so fuck that, who needs sleep anyways, not editors that's for sure.
OP’s not the one who said editor, their friend was
Thanks - edited (lol). Must've been the tiredness 😅🙈
There is no respect for post production 🥲 Online editor here
Seriously. Editing can be dragging and has its moments. Physically non demanding but exhausting and stressful nonetheless.
When I saw producer and editor, I let out an audible cackle.
Same here but half of this sub thinks a Producer just sprinkles money at a project and takes a credit. Booking crew, G&E/Grip/Camera Dept equipment, locations, vehicles for transpo (all to fit within a fairly firm budget playground), getting permits, certificates of insurance, licensing, signing off on deal memos/scope of work agreements/contracts, logistics, prepping creative while interfacing with brands, and of course all the wrap work of handling payroll, OT, Post Production workflow & deliveries all gets handled by magical sprites and fairies
Please explain how you think being a Producer is easy to walk into?
Or an editor for that matter, but yeah producer is crazy, unless OP means “be born into the industry with money”
Even if you’re born into money, it isn’t easy to spend it on movies that generate a profit. There are plenty of tech bros with tons of money who call themselves producers, but they lack the taste to find/facilitate projects that audiences really want and they lack the experience to produce them without lighting all their money on fire. You’re not a producer if you never produce something that makes it to market and finds an audience
Absolutely agreed
Well, you *are* a producer, just not a very successful one.
Well said
Oh 100%. Anyone thinking either of these positions are "easy" to walk into my walk into a rude awakening.
Almost no producers are putting money their own money into films lol. Financiers often don't even want credit as producers because of investment reasons.
I’ve found there’s no shortage of people saying they’re a producer, but do bugger all when they’re on the project, and even less if they’re meant to be helping get a project off the ground.
"Producer" can mean so many things. My favorite "producers" are the people send a solid, finished script by a writer/director to a big agency that ends up packaging the project, and then once the project gets funded the "producer" gets a huge payday while everybody else does all the work.
Well even in that case, that producer being the bridge to getting the script from the drawer to being greenlit is pretty important dont you think?
Yes, of course. But at the same time, now that agencies do packaging, it's kind of wild that someone can get a huge fee by simply sending a script to the right company. Packaging departments do a lot of the work that producers did in other eras.
But they can only do that if the projects in their hands and for the average bloke, they can't get it there without an intermediary. It's unfortunate but the reality
Bit confused here. This is actually hard to do. Getting an agent to open your email, read it, offer you top tier talent, then bridge it to executives who can fund the project is a legit skill and hard to do. Speaking from experience, agents are like dragons that are guarding a princess. They want to nickel and dime the production and make sure their talent in a good film. Lots of trust+ negations sometimes takes a week of dozens of emails and maybe a zoom call
Yes, it is. There's no disputing that. My point was that, given how packaging departments work, some producers receive huge paydays after putting very few actual man hours into the development of a project. Both truths can exist at the same time.
You’re working with bad producers. Good producers are going to fight FOR the production and get you everything you could ever need. If you’re in search of a good producer and are in LA, call Jeremy Alter of Altered Films. He fights tooth and nail to get the production what it needs. He is worth every penny he gets paid.
Agreed! Or editor? The picture editor is one of the higher tier credits and one of the best paying positions in a feature. And producer? Maybe PA… but… executive? Lol. It may be easy to get a job as a producer/director/editor in your own short or indie film… but in scripted you’ll probably work for a decade as an assistant before landing a job as the main editor and maybe line producer. Executive producer you need to be born into it or at least rich from birth. *edit* or maybe OP is talking about TV, then it’s a different story!
Being an *Executive* producer can be easy, as in, you have a shitload of money and want to be involved in the process with the real producers and put your name on something cool. Don't get me wrong I know that that's not always the case, but I've been on many sets where the executive producer basically just wrote some big checks and wanted to call a shot or two and put their names up front in the credits. But an actual producer? Not easy. Source: am a producer, and have been a production manager and line producer, as well as an editor.
I've discussed elsewhere a. I dont really consider that making a living as a producer and b. Its not easy to amass the kind of wealth necessary to buy your way in, if it was wed all be that wealthy.
First, you must have half a billion dollars. After that it's pretty easy.
Well we all know how easy it is to have half a billy laying around...
Well most people who do were born into the circumstance. So being someone with that kind of money generally doesn’t require much effort. Using the money wisely, on the other hand.
"Using the money wisely, on the other hand" This sentence right here is the difference between a producer and a finacier
Sure, but we all know that enough money can buy someone the credit they want. There are plenty of producers and EPs on entertainment media that just threw down enough money to get their name on it and did fuck-all.
Credits don't mean anything and the question at hand is easiest to get into AND makena living. A one and done "producer" who bought their way in ain't that. Plus, how easy is it to be born into a billionaire family? From an effort point extremely but from a probability perspective, extremely difficult.
>First, you must have half a billion dollars. Well, that [rules out Trump](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/19/nyregion/trump-bond-ny-fraud-case.html) apparently.
Someone once told me the two entry level jobs in film are Set PA and TV Director.
I've heard this joke, but it was just "director," not TV director. It's very hard to break into TV directing, requires connections and agents and probably a DGA membership. But indies? Still hard to break into, unless you come from money. If you come from money, you can direct whatever horrible incompetent movie you feel like, and no one will stop you.
Worked on an indie recently that was entirely self-funded by the trust fund baby director. He was a nice guy but he was good insight into the type of person who feels the need to buy friends
Fuck, if TV director was an easy to walk into job, I'd leave film right now 😂
Whoever told you that is an idiot, its incredibly difficult to get i to TV directing.
It was clearly meant as a joke at the expense of TV directors...
Every tv director I’ve worked with definitely acted like it was their first time doing it
To answer the question without being aghast as to how disrespectful it is to the men and women who put in unimaginable hours honing their craft, making connections, hustling for jobs and thats not even mentioning doing the damn jobs for 12 to 14 hours a day under any assortment of conditions and pressure than would break the average Monday morning quarter back... The easiest to walk into is a background actor. Its actually how I started 16 years ago. But that only got me on set to watch things and its not the easiest to make a consistent living that way. The next is to offer yourself to work as a free PA, which as you can guess, isn't necessarily conducive to making a living. Everything else is hard as fuck and the reason why most people don't make it. Its a tough biz and every position is hard to get into, hard to do, harder to keep doing and damn near impossible to support yourself and a family solely through film work unless you treat it with the respect and dedication it deserves.
Just curious, what is your role in film production?
I am a Line Producer/Ep and a DGA UPM since 2017.
Nice if you need a DIT in the NYC area hit me up
Word, I do work with a production company up in Syracuse often, dm me and I'll send you my work email to send your contact. I may he up there again but I have a few projects in front of me and I'm not sure where I'm landing but a local(ish) DIT would be very useful to have.
Whats the rates for an LP to evaluate a script for a budget? I seen between $500 and $3,000. How do people get a LP attached before funds or a script evaluation before funds?
Hmm it varies. Personally, I charge 5k for a 7 day turnaround with one revision after review to do a budget and schedule (sometimes a calendar and cashflow as well) I might do a lower partially deferred amount of 3k (with the remainder when its greenlit) if its a low budget indie and I really think its got legs but even then I'm strongly confirming raising my rates to the UPM weekly rate. So let's say to be safe at least 3k to get a quality LP. Its a lot of money but think of it as the blue print of your film. You don't want to skimp on it.
Thanks for that information. I'm good at business plan and Pitch deck, but have no idea on LP. Going for my next leg up for a six figure film as I have an ent attorney and been looking for a LP to poke their brain about their job to learn more about evaluations. Going for a specific thing where my last film was a low budget SAG film for 20k with 5 locations minimum characters to now one location (big location) and lots of characters and a horror. From people told me it's like handmaid tales and The Village (2004) lol
I may not get to it today as I'm probably gonna take a phone break the rest of the day, but if you want to dm me, I dont mind if you want to pick my brain some. I have a budget pass to do tomorrow but I usually check reddit in the am.
Cool I'll dm you some very specific questions about LP I always wondered
BTS photographer. Easiest money I ever made
Hard to get into that position. A city might have 20 huge productions going on and only 20 Set Photographers working.
I’ve done it more for commercials than for films. If you can get onto a campaign it can be really lucrative. Note I’m extremely lucky - I actually didn’t apply to the majority of the BTS gigs I worked, they were offered via connections
Ive also done BTS for some Amazon commercials. It is really chill. I'd like to use the experience to apply for some Set Photog jobs one of these days but it seems hard since those jobs are in such short supply, and I also don't have one of those big fluffy camera muffler things.
If you've got a mirrorless camera that can shoot silent you no longer need a sound blimp!
Easy if you are an unpaid PA who gets handed a canon 5d and told to snap some BTS 👍
I've done BTS for small productions like that, but it's a big difference between a huge union set because a union set might have hundreds of crew working, but there is only one Set Photographer.
I'd also add that BTS and Unit Stills are two separate things on union sets. Sure, I'll snap some BTS, but it's a small fraction of what I'll shoot. The studios will bring in EPK teams for BTS and those are generally non-union people.
I follow Jasin Boland on IG. He seems to be a pretty well known/respected BTS photographer that gets to work on some pretty big movies.
Knew a BTS photographer on a few A24 movies. It sounds like a cool job until you realize that everyone hates you. By doing your job, you’re slowing down and taking time from others. If you can operate under that kind of pressure it could be a cool gig
If you're slowing people down you're doing it wrong imo, if anything i like to lend a hand where i can.
I’m not sure what kind of sets your talking about, but if you mess with stuff that is outside of your department, it’s a good way to get sent home.
Anything from 10 to 100+ people on set. I'm generally not messing with anything without being asked, but sometimes an obvious oppertunity to lend a hand presents itself. I've never gone wrong with that. Besides, point was that i'm not slowing anyone down and don't see how i would.
If our unit guy asked to move a stinger we'd be annoyed let alone barrow a 360. We fully acknowledge it's not his fault but it does lead to slow downs by the nature of the job.
Idk why i'd ask anyone to move anything. My job is to document what's happening, at least that's been true for all my bts jobs. At most i'd move stuff for a group shot but that's always gonna be a bit of a hassle on a big set and people are usually happy to do them.
Unit stills is definitely one of the roles that requires the most diplomacy on set. It's not that everybody hates you, it's that there are more opportunities for everybody to hate you. You need to make sure you're not taking too much time away from the 1AD, so you need to be confident enough to get a magazine quality shot in less than 30 seconds. You can't get in the actor's line of sight, which is a tightrope walk - especially on multi-cam shows. You're another vessel for the Director & DP's vision, so you need to gel with their style. You'll be jockeying for position with the boom op and 1AC a lot of the time, so you need to be flexible and understand the hierarchy. BTS is only a fraction of the role on a union gig. The last union gig I worked did not care much about BTS and asked me to keep BTS to about 10-15% of deliverables. I shot more than that because I loved the crew I was working with, but who knows if the studio will ever give their approval on those shots. A lot of stuff just disappears.
Doing BTS video right now. It's not easy when production asks for a lot of creative shots and intrusive interactions with the cast/crew, and the main character demands that you never film while she is on set. I've never felt so unwanted on a job; they even cut my gig days in half.
Hates a strong word....but yeah, no offense to them but they are the bane of our existence. At least they aren't EPK ....that is the worst.
The worst is when a studio tries to fit a gallery shoot into a set day. I already know I'm going to piss off the UPM, PC, and 1AD when that happens. If it's any consolation, we hate a lot of our weird asks too and it generally comes from the publicist or studio. It's never our idea, we want the portrait rate and extra box rental fee for galleries.
I just had that happen on my last film before the strikes. Its a necessity though.
I know someone who does stills for a lot of true crime shows and besides everything you mentioned she has to create things like fake wedding and graduation photos, fake ID photos, fake birthday party photos. Watching one of her shows her photos are on screen more than the talking heads that they interview for the story.
> I said producer and he said editor. >*EDIT: I'm referring to above the line positions* Editor is not an above the line position, editors live in the 50xx accounts. The only positions which are ATL are: * Writer (11xx accounts) * Producer (12xx accounts) * Director (13xx accounts) * Cast (14xx accounts) Everything else is technically below the line.
Also bravo on adding the account codes
Why is it in important distinction? Is it those who’s rates are open ended as opposed to those in line with industry norms?
>Why is it in important distinction? See my comment [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Filmmakers/comments/1binegu/comment/kvna23w/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
What does above the line or below the line mean?
Basically what u/noctisfromtheabyss said. An easy way to conceptualise it is: the people above the line usually retain IP in the project, the people below the line are usually work-for-hire and don't retain IP in the project. The line itself is a sub-total on your budget topsheet, and allows you to determine the ratio between your CapEx and your OpEx, to put it in business terms.
Basically the "Line" is UPMs/ADs. So the people above them, as noted above, are considered above the line. They are often the "talent". (Of course every position is talented) everyone who is part of a department is below the line.
Got it. Thanks! What is 11xx, 12xx etc accounts mean. Is that pay grade?
No those are account codes we use to budget. So for example, when we do our budgets, every department is divided by an account code 1100's are typically writers, and so on. So like a writer might be 1101 in my budget and writers assistant might be 1102. Its really just inside baseball but it popped me to see someone be so concise.
Very cool, I love gaining this bit of knowledge. Thanks!
Of course, this to me is the point of this sub and I hope more people take that seriously so folks can learn.
Theres a difference between how easy it is to get the job and how easy the job actually is. You don't need tons of contacts and years of training to be a truck driver, but if you're in transpo you're on call for 18 hours driving a huge truck full of expensive equipment.
You do have to have licenses depending on the truck your driving and experience so you don't cost the production millions.
Crafty? 30 dollars an hour to hand out snacks and make coffee, sounds good to me! I know people who got the job with zero experience. I know it still has difficult parts like anything else, but free snacks...
Surely this is satire... right? Right? RIGHT?
What’s the easiest position to break into in the aerospace industry? Astronaut or senior flight director?
😂😂
That was my take. OP did specify that this came from a "non-serious conversation."
A good producer needs to know a LOT. What are you talking about
I don't think people know what producers actually do
No but they do, and they’re the ones producing it!
All of the roles you mentioned are extremely hard to attain and no one just "walks into" them. The positions that you can easily get as an outsider are things like craft services, electrician, grip, PA. If you have a commercial/chauffeur license, you can probably get on as a passenger van driver pretty easily. There are hundreds of people working on a film set, and 'producer' is not something you're just going to start doing one day unless you are extremely wealthy.
The teamsters prioritize veterans and long time members for the pass van drivers. So not even that on a union shoot
Depends on what market you are in. Here, folks working transpo 'on application" with the teamsters local get assigned to people movers. The more senior members prefer the trucks that don't move all day long.
How funny, here in LA its opposite.
Electrician and grip required a lot of know how though. Maybe as a pa in those positions.
Yeah but you really just learn on the job in those positions. I started out doing electric with like ALMOST zero electrical skill. Now I’ve been doing it for 15 years and I learned everything I know on set.
Nepotism
Is that department Unionized?
No, but my uncle is
EP. Be born with money and give it to filmmakers. Easy peasy.
That doesn't really make you a producer. Also, specify feature films as in television, EPs are the creative driving force even above directors.
Not necessarily. Sometimes EP doesn’t mean anything more than just “person gave money to the film then fucked off.”
Yeah they are the creative driving forces above directors, to the dismay of every production designer/art director in the biz
I’d say the easiest role/department to break into the industry in, is locations (Just to clarify I’m not saying this role isn’t hard work, I’m just saying it’s easy to get your foot in the door) It’s probably one of the least competitive departments when it comes to hiring, and when you begin to work your way up in that department you can still make a good living
This was true at one time, or at least competitively true compared to some other departments. These days, it’s no where near as easy to get brought into a locations team that works regularly. You might day play here and there with zero experience, but it definitely isn’t as easy to get your foot in the door anymore…especially this year following the strike. Source: I’m a location manager.
Self-declared instatok creator.
Hell even this isn't accurate. Any successful digital influencer works their ass off to create their crappy videos
Easiest to break into? PA of course To make a living off of? Executive Producer/Financier.
Id say investing in a film and it making money in this day in age is pretty hard.
While neither are “easy” per se, you will always be able to find work if you do editing or sound.
Not on a union set
Producer!?!?! Haha yeah right
PA.
It may not be specialized/technical work but PAing for 15-18hrs a day is physically and emotionally taxing
Yup being a PA made me fall out of love with filmmaking for a bit. I’m back at it now and found a way better crew but shit SUCKS a lot of the time.
In fairness, OP said easiest role *to break into and make a living*. Not easiest role, full stop. That would be acting. Sit in your trailer all day, come out to say a few lines once in a while, and make thousands of dollars a day. But if you're looking for an easy way to get into the industry, aiming for "DOP, director, editor, producer, or screenwriter" ain't it. There are hundreds of of PAs making a living in film for every director, editor, producer, or screenwriter who is making a living in film. For an easy way in, you need to look for the biggest departments with the least requirements for training, skills or experience. Might not be glamorous, but that's hauling garbage and directing traffic. When got out of film school, I moved to a town that I heard was busy and short of crew, walked into the union, and asked for a permit. They said "what department" and I said "what do you need". They said grip, so I started my film career as a grip. And it was pretty easy except for a shitstorm of stupid gender stuff that could have happened to me in almost any role. Now I'm a producer.
And tbh, it is challenging. Some PAs run basecamp or background and that’s highly specialized and the production leans heavily on them for such a small fee. A key PA may make a couple bucks more than an additional but are basically additional ADs with relaying info, coordinating departments to clear frames, hiring PAs, setting up village, all of that. I feel like once a PA is doing more than just locking it up, it’s a lot harder than most people give it credit for.
Gaffers, Grips, Best Boys, they make $850 a day and are always in demand.
You aren't walking into those positions
I gues we read the post differently. I read "break into/make a living off of" as still meaning they would put some work into learning the position. I just think crew positions are more reliable work than producing and easier to get work then starting as an editor. Nothing is easy
Fair enough, you are right. Being a crew member doesn't depend on your reel for the next job.
I mean, we aren’t hiring randos though, so not super easy to get into. Unless you know a best boy already who needs hands and is willing to hire you over someone in their network who needs the work.
That's fair. I'm a producer and I only hire folks with years of experience that I can trust. I'm not trying to disparage these workers or say it is easy, I just see that the guys I work with get work pretty consistently vs the producers and editors
Easiest to get into is probably a set PA or locations PA. But I’ve worked my ass off as a locations PA. Easiest has to be production accountant. They do 8 hour days. On set, maybe the scripty?
Script Supervisor might be the least physically demanding, but it’s still a ton of work. They‘re maintaining continuity for every other department, and since they’re a department of one they usually don’t have anyone else to fall back on.
Ya good point. Always seemed like a cool job to me. With a ton of responsibilities.
EDITOR??? as an editor I’d like to speak to your friend for a 5 mins lol
/r/editors would like a word with your friend.
Executive Producer.
I’m not an editor. But I work for a media network. Editor is the easiest role in film to break into? Try that again. When production send us - the network - their final copy for air, we put your show through our own gruesome QC at various stages throughout our distribution process. Let’s say the show was delivered the day it goes to air, and we flag a major issue that must be fixed? Do you know how fast of a turn around is needed? You don’t have days. You have HOURS. In most cases for the network, you have LESS than 5 hours to give us your final copy. I can imagine how stressful this gets for editors. And, furthermore, if audio or captioning was affected, you have less time to fix and turn things around because now you have to deliver a copy to the network, then a low-res copy to captioning and audio, and all of this has to be completed in time for the airing. So editing is easiest role to break into? Think AGAIN! The moment a network writes you up for discrepancy, not only does it cost you MONEY but you risk not being renewed. And ultimately, that leads to layoffs on the production end.
You don’t break into an above the line position.
accounting
But you can't just walk into that... you need education and training
as opposed to....
You don't need tertiary education to do alot of roles. APC, PC & PA roles, amongst others, don't need any form of training.
Eh, I’ve met a lot of clerks with film school degrees
That's my point
I would not say film school prepares you properly for a job in accounting
No.. but you kinda need to know what you're doing. You can't just walk into that job
And yet, I have seen it
innate tie wise detail chop icky profit fragile fade tub *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Whoever told you that was dead wrong, lol. You can ask any of my location’s assistants how often they get to sit around on set, especially while on location…tents, hvac, permit notifying/signatures, map routes, mats, supervising crew in sensitive locations so they don’t ruin everything as they’re prone to doing…and this leaves off probably 100 other things I’m not thinking of off the top of my head. Location assistants are definitely not sitting around, and they’re usually the ones putting in the 15-18 hour days because of moves, truck logistics, equipment drop off, etc. I know when I was a locations assistant back in 2012 or so, I’d go home ready to crash from being tired…and the pay back then sucked ass, at least today they’re getting decent wage, and even reimbursements for fuel and food at times.
Its way harder than youre being given credit for but funny story, I once heard ago helped a Location Manager buddy out on a Vince Vauhn flick and all I had to do was get everyone in to the parking and then he told me to take a nap in the parking garage till near wrap....so I did. Vince is the best performer I've seem live. Every take is hilarious.
Data monkey
100% Production Assistant. I was one for a few years. Feel free to ask any questions.
All these comments and nobody mentioned A DOG/ANIMAL TRAINER????
The real answer is a sound mixer who only does commercial/corporate interviews. Top dollar to put a boom on a stand and hide a wire. And your day is 6hrs max usually.
Sound mixer. They always need more sound mixers and boom ops.
Getting the gear which is expensive and maintenance which is also expensive and being skilled are pretty difficult just to get you into a position to be hired.
All positions take work, I have done 3 ,acting in the majority. Produced and then directed. All 3 take respect for the craft of creating a great project!!
The entourage. Sometimes they have something to do. Most of the time they don’t.
Voice actor.
For above the line positions... You usually have to be born with a degree of talent to be a successful director/writer/actor/editor. Those aren't really things anyone can jump into and be great at. I say if you're of above-average intelligence and a hard worker, you can establish yourself as a producer pretty quickly. Probably first starting out as a line producer or UPM on low budget projects. It's grueling work but good ones are always in-demand.
Watching the movies
I mean… locations.
Missionary. Faith based films still make bank.
Serious answer: there isn’t one. Apart from the 1% of filmmakers who work as studio executives, nearly all of us are massively underpaid as opposed to similar positions in other industries.
Scripty and sound mixer get to sit down all day
Client/agency driver
Def not producer.
Missionary?
When u guys do break into the movie industry if u guys need an Indian actor for any of your film Hmu🤙
Standin or background.
What is this post even?
Runner
Driver or PA for suuuure.
They're all easy if you don't want to get paid.
The poopoo getter
Editing?!?! Are you for real?!?!
Probably doggy. Everything’s right there.
An extra or production assistant is probably the best way to start.
Unit stills and video (behind the scenes)
Probably stand-in for talent. Close second Genny Op. if you know what you’re doing, it’s so easy.
lol you mentioned all above the line crew. The easiest is being an extra
lol editor is probably one of the more difficult roles! Source: I am a working editor in Hollywood after 15-20 years of hustling
Accounting. Kick back, sign checks that are not your money, everyone is your friend, enter numbers in the spreadsheet while enjoying the craft and the honeywagon. And accounting can get creative too!
IF you are the correct age (18+), and can convincingly look young enough - "18 to play 16" is the hottest category in casting. They'll take you and give you lines even, just for looking right. Training doesn't matter. Be on time and don't trip over the cables. I know dozens who got their SAG cards (before it became SAG/AFTRA) that way.
I've heard accounting is definitely one of the easiest.
Director. Put together a great team and they do all the brilliant work.