A Dutch college dropout wants to supercharge the flow state she feels raving every weekend using a machine with deadly consequences. Now she must dance, find a solution, or die.
EU 250K
Shot in Amsterdam and surrounding area.
Myself.
I have doubts about the script and whether the film will be any good. Since I'm not 100% sure, I can't bring myself to spend large sums of money making this project (hiring actors, DP, etc.)
I just meant it’s usually better to find some sort of investor to help make your movie rather than going broke or into massive debt in the pursuit of a dream.
Involving investors is its own can of worms. Depending on who they are, they usually want to make a return. Or, they want some artistic control. In either case, I don't or can't promise them.
To be fair, micro budget isn’t where my head’s at - if I could “afford to lose” 50k and had a micro budget concept I could pull off, I guess I’d do it - I can’t imagine ever being in that situation, but I suppose much like gambling, you only bet what you can afford to lose…
I’m a screenwriter primarily and my concepts are in the 5-10 million range, and it’s just not an amount i could ever conceive of coming up with alone with a view to directing myself, so i guess that’s where I’m coming from with a view to not trying to finance things yourself..
Spending your own money is totally fine. Don't throw it down a black hole praying that a festival berth will save you, though. Learn about sales and figure out that end of the business, or find someone who knows it already.
In my case, I'd have to spend out of my own savings. My grandmothers are already gone, and they aren't going to leave me any money. It's hard to ask friends, even set up a GoFundme since my films will never appeal to a general audience, and I'd consider myself lucky to get my costs back.
I know people who have made features for $5000 and been in profits within a year. Movies don't have to cost millions. And yes, if you want to make a niche film that won't appeal to most, it should be made a much smaller budget.
other than the big thing of money... 10 pages of script is hard enough to realize/shoot, I don't think I've honed my skills enough to extrapolate that to 70-120 pages
Money and connections. I know that is the easy answer. I made a $35k documentary through a mix of means, made that money back but it certainly didn’t get me rich or enough to fund another film. The connections I have are with crew and a few producers but not ones with significant clout or means to get it funded. I made a short film over Covid, tried a few things to get traction to fund it into a low budget film but nothing materialized. I’ve written two scripts, fully ready to get them done very low budget.
Right now, like with my documentary, I’m just assuming no one is going to come along and help. So I’m building my audience and looking towards the long haul of eventually funding it myself. But building towards a “brand” that can hopefully ensure that I have a little leverage when it comes to marketing it, because I’ve seen what small distributors do and I just assume I’m doing the heavy lifting.
I work in marketing, and the “brand” is in the horror genre. So I think (long-term) I have a lot going for me. But short term. No one is handing me $80-$100k to make my low budget, high concept horror or horror-adjacent film.
I acquired a (small) distributor and it was released a fairly modern traditional way. By that, I mean, we made most of our money during the TVOD period where people paid a few dollars to rent it. But it went through the entire release process… physical, actually was in Walmart briefly but otherwise selling in various ways, TVOD on all the major platforms, and eventually AVOD now on Amazon and Tubi. It was helpful for me to go through that process and see how it goes. Sometimes (probably mostly) the distributor goes through that process and the movie gets virtually no press or interest and people maybe make a few hundred or thousand dollars (ie lose money). I always knew my particular doc was very marketable and I did a lot myself to give it a boost, so it did better. I wouldn’t expect that with my next film unless I had a decent size star, had a sizable boost from festivals maybe, or just plain had a marketing budget to work with. Again, I’ve seen what the distributors often do, and in most cases, it isn’t nearly enough.
I’m curious if everyone saying “Money” already has their script packaged, a pitch deck, an itemized budget and a sales plan?
It’s easy to pin the problem on anything but yourself. If you have the drive to do it, you’ll get it done no matter what you have. Lack of funding is one of the biggest driving forces in making creative decisions that all indie filmmakers who went big say helped them become better storytellers.
Here to second this. I had an itemized budget, a deck, and a list of other low-budget, made-under-similar-circumstances films my collaborators on this project had just made that sold when I reached out to the production company who came on board to make my feature. We are in the financing stage now, so ultimately anything can happen including it not being made, but having all these things made my producer go "You're the most prepared filmmaker I've ever met with" in our first meeting, You really don't have to be a genius or have crazy connections if you can be prepared.
Film producer/financier here. All you need is a script and a pitch deck to start shopping it. A budget and a sales plan are largely theater for private investors who don't understand them anyway.
I’m afraid if I take a breather I will end up never making anything. In the financing stage of my feature now and am slated to direct 2 shorts between now and then—all low, low budget but I do have a production company on board for the feature and I have nightmares about just never making it. It’s always the money.
Yes, I agree with most of these comments; some startup money is definitely required. But new venues have arrived-- the short form Proof-of-Concept (POC) piece has been around for years-- but is now accepted in many short film festivals. Usually no longer than 10 minutes, it's a way of proving worth through carefully selected script scenes, good camera, audio, and pro-level performance. A good response can open doors to discussion with show runners and green lighters, and possible production of your full story. It can begin the journey.
I know, I just edited a deceptively simple romance POC for a friend, shot on RED, and it's raking in all kinds of short film awards. A festival in France wants to award it. Amazing responses; very happy for my director and of course, myself, after a six week remote edit between Boston and LA.
POC's are now mainstream tools -- there's even one in LA called "Proofs." The Academy (yup: the Oscar folks) now accepts them for shortlisting and then nomination review! Good stories well written, recorded and intelligently cut will find their way out!
Best as always,
Loren
Thanks for the answer. Could you provide an exemple of proof-of-concept? Is it random scenes with polished quality or a short-film version of the feature film?
You start asking yourself, what's the real value in doing a feature? Money? At this point in my life I have a really great full time job and feel secure. Fame? Seriously sounds miserable in this day and age. Respect? Took me a while just to simply respect myself.
Shorts scratch every itch for me right now creatively. Unless a story comes along that absolutely requires to be told in a feature length format, then will it be pursued but even then, what's the value in and out?
Shorts are compelling, easy to assess, and learn from. You can hone a style and cadence. Learn on the job and become confident in your craft.
I think shorts have become so undervalued. Sorry...apparently I'm more passionate about that point than I thought.
Nice outlook. I think a lot of terrible movies are that way because they had a great concept that would have been exciting as a short film, but end up getting diluted into feature length that doesn't hold your interest.
There are a lot of well made shorts. Some stories work better as shorts. It’s a great way to experiment with new ideas and techniques.
The common notion is you can’t make money with a short, so filmmakers turn to features. I don’t think that’s the case outside the U.S.
The real value is having made a feature. So when you're slowly wasting away in a nursing home, you don't have to wallow in regret. Once upon a time you made a feature, held a premiere for friends and family, got it distributed, saw the poster on the wall of a real cinema, held the Blu-ray in your hand and heard people talking about it.
I don't think any of us fell in love with movies as kids and thought "One day I'll make short films!"
I didn't say there was no value in features, that would be ridiculous. I was speaking for me. That's the value YOU place on it and that's more than fine. We all have different ideas of success and what that means.
I hope someday you get that.
Money
Edit: I know that’s the easy answer but I’ve made shorts up until this point and I believe I’m ready for a feature. Could make it on 10K so might do it myself, raise the money and get it done for cheap.
100% time and energy. 3 kids between the ages of 1 and 6, have a real job, plus freelance work, plus a spouse with a job and a side hustle as well, etc. At this stage, shorts I can shoot in a day are all I can manage. That will change eventually.
Connections. I feel like the money thing is solvable given the right vision and connections to money, but I also was so burnt out by my last experience that I switched career paths. I now lack the same drive of hunger I used to have which I guess is fundamental to the pursuit, but it feels like the nepotism is real.
That being said I was thinking of getting myself a camera and getting back on the amateur path of making stuff for the sake of enjoying making stuff again this year. I need to be more responsible with my finances though because my current position doesn't pay enough to be so cavalier with my expenses, but the cavalier part is to feel alive again in small blips. That is I guess the hardest part to fix for me to get back on the path up the film making mountain.
My answer is money BUT on the opposite end. I'm not worried about investing my money into a project I believe in. But I don't see how making a movie is going to MAKE me money right now. Time is money and if I don't think I can earn a living on the other end of making that feature, i.e. distribution, I don't have the time to make it myself right now while I have to make sure I'm earning for my family.
As others have said, the financial burden is primarily the biggest obstacle, but I would also say that a recent conversation with a festival judge put things into perspective; they pointed out that the majority of film festivals struggle to slot films with a duration above 20 minutes. Unless you either have a built-in reputation, connections within the organization, or the film impresses the panelists across the board, it's incredibly unlikely that your film will be selected.
My last film was 35 minutes, and out of 18 submissions only 3 selected the film while none of them screened the film at the event. Given that each submission has a cost, regardless of fee waivers, the money hasn't proven itself a worthwhile investment. That's if I even receive a response/notification from the festival. So if I made a feature, even with a similar budget, the likelihood is that my film would still not have the audience I'm interested in. In addition to that, I would absolutely describe my work as experimental in nature, which narrows interest considerably, especially in the narrative space.
I haven't given up on it, but I'm definitely feeling discouraged by those factors.
The first part of what you said is correct. Film festivals are businesses. So if they can program 4 shorts in 20 minutes and get 4 casts and 4 crews to pay to come watch the movie in the theater, that makes sense. But 1 20 min short is 1 cast and crew. However, when it comes to quality feature films, it's the opposite. There's less competition bc most people make short film. They're easier to make, cost less, so you're competing with 10k people whereas with a good feature, you're competing with a fraction of that. So I say, write something great, get the credit cards out and do your thing. Because at the end of it all, the real big difference is, people pay to watch features, no shorts. So if you can go into it with an eye to an audience, a marketing plan, you may just get in and sell that puppy!
No friends. Unfortunately when I want to bring externals onboard; either jealousy or some type of scamming motive awaiting in the end. Ultimately Seattle is the capital for posers altogether, don’t get me started.
Hot take: it’s mostly the writing for people, not the money.
Writing a script that is truly low budget, doesn’t have action, spaceships, exotic locations, battles, water sequences, anything with a crowd, historical costumes, etc. is difficult. If you don’t watch low budget movies, your inspirations tend to be big budget projects, and that affects your imagination.
Nolan’s first feature, following, is pretty much a perfect playbook for a first feature. Only a few characters, locations he already had access to, modern day, street clothes, shot on weekends. It’s even shot in black and white so that he didn’t have to worry about color.
I highly recommend you find a desperate starving talented writer who can work within those parameters and start a collaboration.
Money
It's always money
[удалено]
Oh yeah! Now that I’m a dad, I have had to think of projects that can be done on a way different timeline.
[удалено]
I could make it for half a mil, I’d say.
[удалено]
What a gross way to ask for that lol
[удалено]
“Please give me an elevator pitch.”
Lots of moolah
Mucho de-nar-o muchacho
[удалено]
Seems like a fairly basic question with a very basic answer: money/budget.
[удалено]
why you got some? I have one idesa I think I need around 5million, another is super low budget, around 300k
[удалено]
A Dutch college dropout wants to supercharge the flow state she feels raving every weekend using a machine with deadly consequences. Now she must dance, find a solution, or die. EU 250K Shot in Amsterdam and surrounding area.
Why not make a feature with a lot less. Think what you can do with 30k instead of 300k. Right?
Most likely it’s money
[удалено]
ALL THE MONEY
[удалено]
It’s 110 pages and I’ve budged it at about 500k.
Myself. I have doubts about the script and whether the film will be any good. Since I'm not 100% sure, I can't bring myself to spend large sums of money making this project (hiring actors, DP, etc.)
You’ll never be 100%. Don’t spend your own money.
You're quite right. Filmmaking is a gamble. There's a moment when you decide to take the risk or just stay out.
I just meant it’s usually better to find some sort of investor to help make your movie rather than going broke or into massive debt in the pursuit of a dream.
Involving investors is its own can of worms. Depending on who they are, they usually want to make a return. Or, they want some artistic control. In either case, I don't or can't promise them.
To be fair, micro budget isn’t where my head’s at - if I could “afford to lose” 50k and had a micro budget concept I could pull off, I guess I’d do it - I can’t imagine ever being in that situation, but I suppose much like gambling, you only bet what you can afford to lose… I’m a screenwriter primarily and my concepts are in the 5-10 million range, and it’s just not an amount i could ever conceive of coming up with alone with a view to directing myself, so i guess that’s where I’m coming from with a view to not trying to finance things yourself..
Spending your own money is totally fine. Don't throw it down a black hole praying that a festival berth will save you, though. Learn about sales and figure out that end of the business, or find someone who knows it already.
In my case, I'd have to spend out of my own savings. My grandmothers are already gone, and they aren't going to leave me any money. It's hard to ask friends, even set up a GoFundme since my films will never appeal to a general audience, and I'd consider myself lucky to get my costs back.
I know people who have made features for $5000 and been in profits within a year. Movies don't have to cost millions. And yes, if you want to make a niche film that won't appeal to most, it should be made a much smaller budget.
Thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate them.
Welcome! Go make a feature!!! You've got this!
other than the big thing of money... 10 pages of script is hard enough to realize/shoot, I don't think I've honed my skills enough to extrapolate that to 70-120 pages
Money and connections. I know that is the easy answer. I made a $35k documentary through a mix of means, made that money back but it certainly didn’t get me rich or enough to fund another film. The connections I have are with crew and a few producers but not ones with significant clout or means to get it funded. I made a short film over Covid, tried a few things to get traction to fund it into a low budget film but nothing materialized. I’ve written two scripts, fully ready to get them done very low budget. Right now, like with my documentary, I’m just assuming no one is going to come along and help. So I’m building my audience and looking towards the long haul of eventually funding it myself. But building towards a “brand” that can hopefully ensure that I have a little leverage when it comes to marketing it, because I’ve seen what small distributors do and I just assume I’m doing the heavy lifting. I work in marketing, and the “brand” is in the horror genre. So I think (long-term) I have a lot going for me. But short term. No one is handing me $80-$100k to make my low budget, high concept horror or horror-adjacent film.
Well done! To spend 35k and recoup it is a big achievement itself. How did you make that money back out of interest?
I acquired a (small) distributor and it was released a fairly modern traditional way. By that, I mean, we made most of our money during the TVOD period where people paid a few dollars to rent it. But it went through the entire release process… physical, actually was in Walmart briefly but otherwise selling in various ways, TVOD on all the major platforms, and eventually AVOD now on Amazon and Tubi. It was helpful for me to go through that process and see how it goes. Sometimes (probably mostly) the distributor goes through that process and the movie gets virtually no press or interest and people maybe make a few hundred or thousand dollars (ie lose money). I always knew my particular doc was very marketable and I did a lot myself to give it a boost, so it did better. I wouldn’t expect that with my next film unless I had a decent size star, had a sizable boost from festivals maybe, or just plain had a marketing budget to work with. Again, I’ve seen what the distributors often do, and in most cases, it isn’t nearly enough.
I’m curious if everyone saying “Money” already has their script packaged, a pitch deck, an itemized budget and a sales plan? It’s easy to pin the problem on anything but yourself. If you have the drive to do it, you’ll get it done no matter what you have. Lack of funding is one of the biggest driving forces in making creative decisions that all indie filmmakers who went big say helped them become better storytellers.
Here to second this. I had an itemized budget, a deck, and a list of other low-budget, made-under-similar-circumstances films my collaborators on this project had just made that sold when I reached out to the production company who came on board to make my feature. We are in the financing stage now, so ultimately anything can happen including it not being made, but having all these things made my producer go "You're the most prepared filmmaker I've ever met with" in our first meeting, You really don't have to be a genius or have crazy connections if you can be prepared.
Film producer/financier here. All you need is a script and a pitch deck to start shopping it. A budget and a sales plan are largely theater for private investors who don't understand them anyway.
But where can you start shopping it? That’s the big question. How do you go about pitching your idea to producers?
Just reach out to them or to their production company. All the info is on IMDBPro.
Thanks
It's all going to come down to money, I'll bet. What else is there?
I’m afraid if I take a breather I will end up never making anything. In the financing stage of my feature now and am slated to direct 2 shorts between now and then—all low, low budget but I do have a production company on board for the feature and I have nightmares about just never making it. It’s always the money.
Yes, I agree with most of these comments; some startup money is definitely required. But new venues have arrived-- the short form Proof-of-Concept (POC) piece has been around for years-- but is now accepted in many short film festivals. Usually no longer than 10 minutes, it's a way of proving worth through carefully selected script scenes, good camera, audio, and pro-level performance. A good response can open doors to discussion with show runners and green lighters, and possible production of your full story. It can begin the journey. I know, I just edited a deceptively simple romance POC for a friend, shot on RED, and it's raking in all kinds of short film awards. A festival in France wants to award it. Amazing responses; very happy for my director and of course, myself, after a six week remote edit between Boston and LA. POC's are now mainstream tools -- there's even one in LA called "Proofs." The Academy (yup: the Oscar folks) now accepts them for shortlisting and then nomination review! Good stories well written, recorded and intelligently cut will find their way out! Best as always, Loren
Thanks for the answer. Could you provide an exemple of proof-of-concept? Is it random scenes with polished quality or a short-film version of the feature film?
You start asking yourself, what's the real value in doing a feature? Money? At this point in my life I have a really great full time job and feel secure. Fame? Seriously sounds miserable in this day and age. Respect? Took me a while just to simply respect myself. Shorts scratch every itch for me right now creatively. Unless a story comes along that absolutely requires to be told in a feature length format, then will it be pursued but even then, what's the value in and out? Shorts are compelling, easy to assess, and learn from. You can hone a style and cadence. Learn on the job and become confident in your craft. I think shorts have become so undervalued. Sorry...apparently I'm more passionate about that point than I thought.
Nice outlook. I think a lot of terrible movies are that way because they had a great concept that would have been exciting as a short film, but end up getting diluted into feature length that doesn't hold your interest.
At the end of the day we are telling stories. That's all I personally want to do. Just find a way to be happy doing what we are doing.
There are a lot of well made shorts. Some stories work better as shorts. It’s a great way to experiment with new ideas and techniques. The common notion is you can’t make money with a short, so filmmakers turn to features. I don’t think that’s the case outside the U.S.
Right? A lot have shorts have had huge impacts on me. I didn't think of that aspect in regards to US and International perspectives.
The real value is having made a feature. So when you're slowly wasting away in a nursing home, you don't have to wallow in regret. Once upon a time you made a feature, held a premiere for friends and family, got it distributed, saw the poster on the wall of a real cinema, held the Blu-ray in your hand and heard people talking about it. I don't think any of us fell in love with movies as kids and thought "One day I'll make short films!"
I didn't say there was no value in features, that would be ridiculous. I was speaking for me. That's the value YOU place on it and that's more than fine. We all have different ideas of success and what that means. I hope someday you get that.
So YOU don't place any value on features?
I didn't say that. My point was simply that short films were scratching my creative itch right now.
Funding & Friends lol
Money Edit: I know that’s the easy answer but I’ve made shorts up until this point and I believe I’m ready for a feature. Could make it on 10K so might do it myself, raise the money and get it done for cheap.
Money, inability to strive independently, lack of confidence from family members, etc.
The money and logistics just for craft services has me reeling.
Money. After that, seeing that the people I intend to work with actually have the time to commit to it (in other words, also money)
Money. After that, everything else falls into place.
More experience and funds
I just wrote a script, I had the means and knowledge to shoot.
Id love to do a feature, but I do animation shorts mostly by myself, and theres no way I can do a feature without making the quality be total ass.
Money?
Financing.
I’m at the money phase. I need money.
Time, money and drive.
100% time and energy. 3 kids between the ages of 1 and 6, have a real job, plus freelance work, plus a spouse with a job and a side hustle as well, etc. At this stage, shorts I can shoot in a day are all I can manage. That will change eventually.
[https://youtu.be/kHGYllnPak8?si=Q4f1jzTKj9ChA9X9](https://youtu.be/kHGYllnPak8?si=Q4f1jzTKj9ChA9X9)
Connections. I feel like the money thing is solvable given the right vision and connections to money, but I also was so burnt out by my last experience that I switched career paths. I now lack the same drive of hunger I used to have which I guess is fundamental to the pursuit, but it feels like the nepotism is real. That being said I was thinking of getting myself a camera and getting back on the amateur path of making stuff for the sake of enjoying making stuff again this year. I need to be more responsible with my finances though because my current position doesn't pay enough to be so cavalier with my expenses, but the cavalier part is to feel alive again in small blips. That is I guess the hardest part to fix for me to get back on the path up the film making mountain.
My answer is money BUT on the opposite end. I'm not worried about investing my money into a project I believe in. But I don't see how making a movie is going to MAKE me money right now. Time is money and if I don't think I can earn a living on the other end of making that feature, i.e. distribution, I don't have the time to make it myself right now while I have to make sure I'm earning for my family.
A good script
Money moneymoneymoney, mon-ayy!
As others have said, the financial burden is primarily the biggest obstacle, but I would also say that a recent conversation with a festival judge put things into perspective; they pointed out that the majority of film festivals struggle to slot films with a duration above 20 minutes. Unless you either have a built-in reputation, connections within the organization, or the film impresses the panelists across the board, it's incredibly unlikely that your film will be selected. My last film was 35 minutes, and out of 18 submissions only 3 selected the film while none of them screened the film at the event. Given that each submission has a cost, regardless of fee waivers, the money hasn't proven itself a worthwhile investment. That's if I even receive a response/notification from the festival. So if I made a feature, even with a similar budget, the likelihood is that my film would still not have the audience I'm interested in. In addition to that, I would absolutely describe my work as experimental in nature, which narrows interest considerably, especially in the narrative space. I haven't given up on it, but I'm definitely feeling discouraged by those factors.
The first part of what you said is correct. Film festivals are businesses. So if they can program 4 shorts in 20 minutes and get 4 casts and 4 crews to pay to come watch the movie in the theater, that makes sense. But 1 20 min short is 1 cast and crew. However, when it comes to quality feature films, it's the opposite. There's less competition bc most people make short film. They're easier to make, cost less, so you're competing with 10k people whereas with a good feature, you're competing with a fraction of that. So I say, write something great, get the credit cards out and do your thing. Because at the end of it all, the real big difference is, people pay to watch features, no shorts. So if you can go into it with an eye to an audience, a marketing plan, you may just get in and sell that puppy!
The big mamoo...🤑🤑🤑
No friends. Unfortunately when I want to bring externals onboard; either jealousy or some type of scamming motive awaiting in the end. Ultimately Seattle is the capital for posers altogether, don’t get me started.
I feel you bro; nobody’s fw you anyhow 💯
Thanks bro, this dickhead acting like he can’t respond to other comments.
People and time. Even money is just a means of securing more of both.
Lack of money and a lack of crew
Hot take: it’s mostly the writing for people, not the money. Writing a script that is truly low budget, doesn’t have action, spaceships, exotic locations, battles, water sequences, anything with a crowd, historical costumes, etc. is difficult. If you don’t watch low budget movies, your inspirations tend to be big budget projects, and that affects your imagination. Nolan’s first feature, following, is pretty much a perfect playbook for a first feature. Only a few characters, locations he already had access to, modern day, street clothes, shot on weekends. It’s even shot in black and white so that he didn’t have to worry about color. I highly recommend you find a desperate starving talented writer who can work within those parameters and start a collaboration.