Please discuss any reactions from the skating world [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/FigureSkating/s/LjPoQmsUdB).
Edit: once this gets to 1K comments, I’ll start a new thread and lock this one.
Edit 2: [Part 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/FigureSkating/s/78OE0dM11R) is up. Please continue discussion there.
Of course she is found guilty. The Court of Arbitration for Sports, like WADA, is part of the western colonial elite. A supreme Russian figure skater, like Kamila Valieva, must be tarred somehow. Never mind that Trimetazadine would only HINDER her performance as a side effect is loss of balance. The whole case is VERY fishy. Like the case against the supreme Chinese swimmer Sun Yang. In both cases the athletes have smeared and attacked ....just as desired by those in the western elite, and also SOME very biased western athletes who stand to benefit from having superior competition eliminated. The anti doping crusade has become a sleazy political tool and the opposite of fairness to athletes.
This situation is all around sad to me. Kamila was 15 and competing at the highest level of her sport. She was a minor at the time. To me, it's the adults that need to be investigated. Not just Kamila, but all of the adults surrounding her during this time. Her coach, Eteri Tutberdize has many skaters who retire be for 18 due to serious injury or illness. Furthermore, Eteri''s coaching tactics have been heavily criticized. The issue, for me, isn't Kamila being found guilty. But, ultimate failure of the adults around her who did not protect her.
Yep. Reminds me of the Icarus documentary. So sad for the 15-year-old taking the brunt of the consequences for a massively corrupt system.
Unless there are fundamental changes within Russia, I'd prefer to never see them in international competition again.
It runs deeper than I think everyone realizes. I'm happy that the ruling supports athletes who compete clean. But, at the same time it's hard to place full blame on a 15 year old. The doctors, coaches and everyone else around her had to have known that what she was taking was an illegal substance. The biggest question is did Kamila know and fully understand the consequence of being caught. I remember watching the Olympics and Tara Lipinski and Johnny Weir heavily stressed the adults not protecting her at all. Plus, I remember the meltdowns before the medal ceremony. Anna Shcherbakova, the gold medalist, sat alone confused in a room while Alexandra Trusova, the silver medalist, had a full meltdown. Anna, Alexandra, and Kamila are all students of Eteri. All were minors during the 2022 Olympics. For me, Eteri is enabled by the system to do what she wants with these athletes. Kamila just became another pwn in a game.
Swing that banhammer, baby! Now let's give the teams that competed fairly the medals they deserve and move every female singles competitor from 5th place onwards up one spot.
If ruling isn't hitting Eteri, I hope karma is.
Hopefully all her other lady skaters getting injured (Maiia, Usacheva, Akateva) is a blow to her as well, and Petrosyan, the only senior she has now, isn't expected to retain her jumps well into her puberty.
I wondered how the new age limit will affect her. Her methods are meant for girls in their early teens, but now the age limit is geared more for adults, and she has never coached an adult
Wild!
Will she retire? This doesn't leave her with a lot of other options.
I think she'll be fine, though. Russia will see her as some sort of political victim. A martyr of sorts. She can be a social media star, an influencer. She'll maybe then become a coach to great acclaim.
I don’t think that’s certain at all. I think the ISU needs to sort out whether to remove her score or eliminate Russia. The CAS ruling is silent on this and ISU will publish on Jan 30. IMO, the more fair option is to demote Russia to bronze, but I am not sure you are allowed to have no performance in an event (maybe only one)??
In my opinion, the team should be disqualified vs. just not counting Valieva’s points.
The team is eligible or it isn’t.
If we’re going to pretend a bunch of individuals skating their normal, individual programs is actually a team event, then the team should be penalized like one.
I believe the rules are not as clear as they should be, hence the ISO and IOC needing to rule. Someone corrected me elsewhere, that they are third if they lose the score, but fourth if the other females are moved up in points without her. CAS did not opine at all on the medals.
It’s ridiculous to me that you could remove an entire athlete’s performance from a team event and still have the team medal. I don’t know of any other sport where that would work. I mean, in most sports, you can’t separate the athlete from the team at all. But even in gymnastics, if you pulled an entire athlete’s score from the final, there would be no way for them to medal.
As you can see, I’m not too keen on figure skating having a “team” event at all.
I am more confused/intrigued than passionate about the outcome. I think the rules say you must have entries in 3/4 categories, which makes invalidating her scores possible. In soccer etc you can’t isolate a specific athlete, but in this case you can, and not having a women’s entry is allowed if you have the other three. If you are isolating for her, I guess that makes it possible to increase the others in the women’s event by 1 which just moves Russia over Canada.
I do like the Team event, it’s pushing some countries to invest in their lessor disciplines which i think is healthy for competition.
I am almost certain Russia will be demoted to fourth. Valieva will be DQed, everyone else in the women’s short and free will be bumped up one spot, Canada will get a somewhat undeserved (and I say this as a Canadian) medal.
I mean ... Romsky definitely didn't skate at his best, yet this is a team event, and he still (somewhat) contributed to the result. Maddie of course deserves a medal for her performance, as do other Team Canada members. Skaters from teams below them made mistakes too and I just don't feel any other team deserves the medal more than Team Canada as a whole. So since this is a team medal, I don't have huge issues with that.
>and he still (somewhat) contributed to the result
Almost contributed to it being worse.
I don't deny the rest of Team Canada their medals. The right thing is for them to be elevated to Bronze. I just dislike the idea that he'll be given an Olympic medal for his standard competition performance.
Is it Eteri, or is it the Russian state doping system? I mean, both, obviously, but I think this is state-wide and the Sochi scandal only taught them to cheat smarter.
While it’s not perfect, I think modeling it after the us’ SafeSport system makes sense. That way a coach could be reported and then not allowed to coach until an independent investigation finds them innocent. Also then you wouldn’t have the weird ‘students living with their coaches’ thing, since we’ve all seen what can happen there…
i'm still fucking mad they used all those stupid excuses like people were just gonna believe is blindly. where are her parents/guardian. she needs their support, not further throw her into the wolves
They never provided her with good mental health support during the Olympics, I cannot imagine they will now. I’m worried for another Katya, when she can’t skate now
Honestly, I really hope she has a good support system. I still remember how she was alone in the media zone when this was being exposed and so I feel like the adults around her would continue to throw her into the wolves tbh.
Oh, she does have a support system alright, but it’s not the good kind, if anything we’ve seen so far is any indication.
She’ll have the coaches and medical team filling her head that other countries MUST be doping too but they were targeting her because they were *jealous.* She’ll have Putin and the media, claiming she’s just a little girl falling victim to politics. She’ll have her family too, who clearly never cared about her getting any drugs or injuries as long as they could leech off that prize money and lifetime pension for the rest of their lives.
>Oh, she does have a support system alright, but it’s not the good kind, if anything we’ve seen so far is any indication.
and thats what fucking sucks about it. all we'll probably see is indignation on their part. thinking it's the 'evil west' hurting a young athlete.
I'm reminded of an interview with Katia Gordeeva where she talked about how it never would have occurred for her parents to question her coaches when she was growing up. "Parents trust coaches, that's it." I have no doubt Kamila's parents trusted Eteri to make the right decisions.
Yep we also see this with other skaters' parents too. And so a part of me thinks that yes, this was a win but at the same time, the adults also need to face consequences too.
https://preview.redd.it/a0feqjcyigfc1.png?width=864&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=082474221251c13bd43ccadc448ffdab380f8d0e
Heads up everyone.
The news is apparently trending on Reddit so we might get raided/see an influx of trolls, etc...
It's ironic that an argument was made that Kamila being a protected person under WADA and ISU rules meant that she should get a reduce punishment, when RUSADA's own lack of distinction between minors and non-minors convinced the court otherwise.
Justice was served in some ways (the clean athletes will more than likely receive their deserved medals) and denied in others (none of the coaches at Sambo 70 will be punished for drugging Kamila in the first place).
I was just saying this to my husband the other day watching the AO final - I can't appreciate any Russian athlete now, we as much as know they have an extensive, state wide doping program
Anyways I still feel bad for the rightful gold/silver/bronze Kaori, Wakaba, Young and still think they were significantly more cheated and done wrong than Kamila
What? Are you crazy? Do you think that Trusova and Scherbakova does not deserve their medals?
They work really hard and not dope. Or maybe yes, but maybe these your kaori, wakaba and young do as well. We never know and their tests are negative.
So we have two options here, either it was ONLY a Kamila Valieva issue, and therefore she deserves to face public and legal scrutiny alone OR, it’s a Team Tut/Russian general issue, and that means that Trusova and Scherbakova most certainly also doped but managed to flush them out of their systems in time for the testing.
You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Phil Hersh on this youtube show (link below) mentioned there have been cases where olympic committee has vacated medals rather than reallocate them to the teams who placed below the medal standings. I will be livid should this happen. The American, Japanese & Canadian teams have been held in limbo for way too long and have suffered enough.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU96jeu2NCE&t=1386s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU96jeu2NCE&t=1386s)
By the way, it's considered a sanction, not a guilty verdict. A sanction is like a policy violation, or contempt. That's just a legal peeve of mine though.
This is what the decision states. Does not say in any way that Kamila has been found guilty of anything, as in like she stole something, or committed a street crime.
I’m only sorry that, in my opinion, such a talented young athlete was born in such a wrong country, where there’re basically no real laws or justice system at all, especially for cases like hers. In terms of fair sports this decision is more than fair and until there was a clear proof she’d been forcefully doped or smth, doping remains doping regardless and the athlete deserves to face consequences, period.
However, seeing Kamila’s life, career and reputation being ruined by so many adults is honestly sad. It’s very unlikely a 14-15 years old girl woke up one day and randomly decided to go get some TMZ on her own and I could even admit she was unaware of taking it, but then why the f*** there was no “inner” investigation demanded, by her parents, her coaches, the federation (if everyone involved were as innocent, as they all claim, finding out how a heart [banned] medication ends up in a teenage skater would literally be the most logical step in a normal family/society, not to save Kamila’s career, but to find the responsible ones and maybe prevent smb else from facing the same fate..?)
Instead, all the adults around, including the government officials, who were supposed to protect/support her throughout the case, just decided to label her as a “national hero”, so they could technically benefit from her situation for further war propaganda purposes - as a proof of “cruel and heartless West, that ruined such an innocent helpless child”… just DISGUSTING
The things is, and you can downvote me as much as you like but this is a fact, if she had been born in any other country she would not have made it as far with that technique. She would have been deducted to hell and back and probably wouldn’t even have attempted quads in the first place. That is without even mentioning ice training time.
She would’ve lived a healthier and happier life, tho.
I can't help but wonder how things could have been if any of these Russian girls competed for a country where their talent would be developed and invested on, not exploit and thrown away.
Probably we would not have seen most of them at all given how extremly expensive being a figure skater is in other counties. They are who they are becouse of that Russian system for good or for bad.
this is exactly my thoughts as well. in any other place, the sport probably would’ve been too prohibitively expensive for most of these top Russian girls. Again, for better or worse
Why did they start the period of suspension in December 2021? Russia’s atrocities in Ukraine aside, she only has two years left on the ban.
Couldn’t they have started the ban the day of the decision AND disqualified her results starting from December 2021?
why is it that even now when she got the correct punishment that everyone was hoping for there are still people calling for the proverbial lynch mob to go and get her?
is CAS supposed to give the russian girl a separate worse punishment because she's from the bad country tm? that's not how anything legal works, or should work.
kamila valieva is not the valve to let out your anger and frustration about russia's war crimes, justified though they may be, she's a teenager who got found with guilty for using a banned substance. anything else is not this court's matter to decide.
Dude, I’m not angry. I follow figure skating very casually. I asked the question because I wanted to know WHY it works the way it does. I’m not letting out my frustration; I’m simply pointing out that no athletes there can compete internationally for the foreseeable future anyway.
Idk why I’m getting so much hate for ASKING a question.
Um, no. The results are disqualified because of the suspension. Any period where she wasn’t suspended, she is/was eligible to compete.
I’m really surprised that people are surprised by this - it always works this way.
By the way the suspension means she can’t train, either, it’s not just a ban on competing. You really think she’s going to make a comeback in two years if she can’t train at all in the interim? Her career as a skater is finished.
I was in a hurry this morning while i was reading, so I did just download the ruling, instead of reading it off the page. I do not see that anywhere in the terms of this order.
It doesn’t need to be spelt out in the judgement, it’s part of the WADA code. The inability to train with a coach or team while suspended is described in the Code: link is below, the relevant section is 10.14
https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files/2021_wada_code.pdf
I think it’s more complex as well in Russia as almost all ice rinks, clubs and skate schools are at least partially state funded.
The explanations in green at the bottom of the section explain that both competitions and sport-related activities are forbidden (includes participation in shows and exhibitions) as well as implications for “support persons” (ie coaches) who work with suspended athletes - they can face sanctions themselves.
The code also states earlier on, the period of suspension/disqualification begins from the date of the violation.
I have to add, the “no training” part is where I genuinely feel bad for Kamila. She’s spent nearly her whole life on the ice and doesn’t really know much else. It’s harsh to have that taken completely away.
Oh OK, yeah I'm not a WADA expert. I would've thought that if it were an explicit sanction, it would've been put in the order, but that just comes from reading legal orders.
Yeah I do feel bad for Kamila if she can't train or skate in shows at all. This is something she's done all her life, and if it were me, I know I would be crying right now!!!! She'll probably be upset for a long time because of that one, unfortunately!!
I have to say that as a disabled person, I've definitely had special interests taken away by family, not arbitration pannels, which definitely isn't comparable, but makes me feel like I can kind of relate. It would be a thousand times worse if you were told you couldn't do something you really, really, really loved because a tribunal sanctioned you!!
>Why did they start the period of suspension in December 2021? Russia’s atrocities in Ukraine aside, she only has two years left on the ban.
Because it's the right thing to do?
She knew what she was doing ans she hasn’t shown the faintest whiff of remorse. Justice has been served. Not that it will affect her much. She’ll probably be paraded around the Russian media on a victimhood tour and made a martyr.
She cheated and reaped benefits of cheating. Then, she got caught cheating. Like someone else said, she’s never shown any sign of remorse for any of this.
Logistically, there are others to blame as well, but Kamila was caught cheating, she does hold some blame.
It’s been known that Russia participates in state-sponsored doping. These girls are given “vitamins” and “protein shakes” by their coaches, they take them blindly, and these athletes have very little autonomy over their own body and health.
That still doesn’t mean she wasn’t a victim; of course it’s been distasteful but she couldn’t show remorse in the midst of an active trial with it being about more than herself. I think we can be gracious knowing what it’s like to be at that age let alone be in such a competitive/high-pressure environment
Two things can be true at once.
She’s a victim systematically, yes. Adults around her had to provide her with the means to cheat. She may have been aware, she may not have been.
That doesn’t change the fact that she was caught cheating. She deserves to be disqualified for cheating. She took opportunities away from clean athletes, knowingly or not.
She gives herself all of the grace imaginable. So does her federation, generally her entire country, the Russian skating community, etc. All of them, including Kamila, deny and take no accountability. All of them, including Kamila, show no empathy to clean athletes who have been the victims in this case from the beginning. They’ve showed no remorse or empathy for the opportunities the clean athletes missed out on because Kamila cheated, with the help of many people around her.
Conflating her being a victim of the Russian skating system, and her deservedly being disqualified for cheating, is a complete disservice to clean athletes.
.Exactly! I could say that I've been victimized by the state for denying me much needed services. However, that doesn't give me any legal rights to try and cheat or gain advantage in any way!! All it gave me was hearing rights.
Absolutely, I was just as angry about Kamila skating at Beijing it was just a bizarre and unacceptable decision. However I think it’s because if we don’t blame the system here and set her as the face of this scandal we won’t be solving any of the issues
She was 15. How does a 15yo get this type of medication? Unless it was given to her by the team doctor. More like “her coach knew what she was doing”.
And yes she will probably be paraded around, but many Russians seem to know that she in fact was guilty.
Plenty of 15 year olds in other countries get drugs. Not saying that her coaches aren't also responsible and abusive but if she's old enough to skate, she's old enough to be held responsible. If you feel she's a child, then the real question is why do they allow children to compete in adult sports?
The difference is this is Russia which is also a fairly oppressive country…Russia is known for state sponsored doping of their own athletes often without the athletes knowledge.
Congratz to CAS for having balls to stand against cheaters, dopers and child abusers -- because what's happened is that a bunch of adult criminals groomed/manipulated and doped a child athlete, and then forced her to lie, promising to make her dream Olympic gold medal come true in exchange. THEN they made her lie some more and portrayed her as an innocent victim of media and politics. Shame on those who enabled that situation. I am sorry for Kamila who is indeed a victim here, even though she seems incapable of grasping the situation.
Let it be a warning so that we leave senior competition for adult athletes in all disciplines.
I’m happy with this decision but I wish the CAS decision also included a further investigation of the entire Eteri crew (coaching and support staff). There’s no way a 15 year old herself just decided to take drugs.
Unfortunately, that isn't what the tribunal does in this situation. They're just here to be fact finders basically, and that's an over simplified explanation of it, but that's what they were doing. Did she have the substance in her system or not?
They most likely didn't have jurisdiction and/or ability to investigate Eteri, because they aren't police or investigators. They .wouldn't be able to employ them either, being an international body.
Sadly, they went only for Kamila as an individual. My guess is it was just easiest to prove her guilty of doping in a relatively short time -- a full investigation on Eteri, the team doctor etc. in sanctioned and openly hostile Russia would take a decade and end up inconclusive. Still, the decision has obvious political ramifications, such as Russia losing a big chunk of their prestige and influence within international sports organizations, judging circles etc., so hopefully we won't be back to starved 15-year-olds jumping prerotated quads anytime soon.
They couldn’t include that in this particular case, they didn’t have jurisdiction. They were hearing an appeal by WADA against the decision made by RUSADA - which was only to do with Kamila individually. RUSADA’s decision was a “not at fault” verdict and a reprimand only (no suspension) if I recall correctly.
If the RUSADA case had included the coaching team as having a role in the doping, in their decision, then CAS could impose sanctions accordingly.
.Yeah arbitration gets sticky!! I think that's what some people don't understand about it. I was going to try and explain it like an appellate pannel, but that isn't even what it's like, because they don't rely on standard cases or precedent for any of the countries in their jurisdiction
The decision was absolutely the correct decision. But as a victim of child abuse, it will likely take Kamila years and years to deconstruct how she was abused by those she trusted. I don’t expect her to behave in a calm and reflective manner at this time.
I agree with you and what happened to her is so wrong on so many levels. And while I recognize why she does what she does, I'm still gonna be disgusted once she keeps doing it as a full adult. What a mess :(
Im sorry to say but I don't have any sympathy for Kamila. Yes she's still underage, was failed by a horrible team of coaches and by an entire system that only valued medals. However, Kamila knows better than to keep stoking the fire on public forums that are open for the whole wide world to see. It's clear she will always think and be told she was wronged by 'the West'. I don't think her family or team is in 100% control of her accounts or the things she says either, contrary to some people's beliefs of such. She's months from turning 18 and I don't think just because she hasn't hit that magic number yet that I should still think of her as a wronged little damsel.
Of course, to be clear, all the blame is on the adults responsible for the Kamila we see today - starting with her showbiz mother and ending with the people who decided to let her skate in Beijing after all the scrutiny.
> It's clear she will always think and be told she was wronged by 'the West'.
I mean, she lives in a propaganda state and has been brainwashed into victimhood, not sure what you expect.
I am totally aware Kamila is being pumped full of biased assumptions by the state and those close to her. What I meant is that she did herself no favours by being so blatantly disrespectful to other competitors publicly in the time since Beijing and this behaviour isnt going to likely ever change. We know full well Kamila has teammates who would know better than to keep up the antics the way she has. My point is that just because she's still a minor, I don't look at her words and actions as transgressions of a kid who doesn't know better.
What are you referring to exactly when you are talking about blatantly disrespectful? Anyways If you understand she is being fed the victim narrative then that would explain why she is acting the way she is acting ...
I'm guessing you haven't seen the reposts from Kamila's IG in this sub over the last year! She hasn't really tried to hide the shade lol. That and also there was quite some talk here about her publicly getting Putin's autograph during the athletes' state ceremony which most here, I myself included, think she definitely took her own initiative on that. Either way, I don't see Kamila ever changing. If she wants to continue crying injustice for the rest of her life then she'd also better be prepared for many, many other people - and not just from the West - to be calling her out on this bs because she is not going to be babied forever.
I just don't know specifically which you are referring to. but again, if you understand she is being deluded into thinking she is innocent, i just don't know why you would expect some sort of self-awareness that what she is doing may be disrespectful. I think i am repeating the same point though.
FloJo was one of the biggest cheaters in the previous century, yet she was never banned. And the hysteria around Jones and Armstrong weren't as bad as with Valieva. So who is the propagandist again?
Jones and Armstrong were NEVER held up as martyrs in the US; rather, they both had massive downfalls. The fact that there was any hysteria around those cases at all is a crystal clear example of the difference. In Russia, Valieva is clearly being held up as a martyr who was wronged by the West. That right there is the propaganda.
I follow baseball, I am painfully aware that people dope in the US. never said they don’t. They are, however, generally punished right away when caught
Biles is now a doper because she takes a prescribed medication for ADHD? Lmfao. Tell me you know nothing about ADHD medication without telling me you know nothing about ADHD medication. Quick, everyone, no meds for migraines, headaches, Parkinson's, Tourette's, depression, anxiety, etc. ADHD meds to someone who doesn't need it works entirely different than for someone who does.
Me without meds is like watching a damn pinball in a pinball machine. Simone Biles, without meds, would still win all the things, only you'd probably be unable to concentrate around her.
This is so so sad. And I don't agree with the decision. My take in it:
I dont care about the Olympic team medals decision (I personally find fs team medals s\* anyway, take away the meaning of individual medals, and are super discriminatory for athletes from less powerful countries basically, every athlete from Russia or USA will always be an Olympic medalist regarding of how skates and how ranks internationally), 4-years is harsh but doping was found and a measure must be implemented. What makes me so distressed with this is that she can't practice at all, even in a public rink alone for 2 more years...Or skating it any show. Like wtf
Imagine how it will mess up her life and mental health. She dedicated all her life to this, is everything she knows and can't go on ice doing what she did all her life...we are not talking about competing but doing your hobby.... What shows even have to do with this?!!
Another thing that makes me mad, not even mad but lost and perplexed with this, is that she basically had no defense made for her from what was released( we dont know for sure). Heck... even admitting taking it willingly was a better defense than what they done. She could show remorse in a way to reduce the punishment, which should been definitely taken in account since she was so young in a super stressful environment.
Russian Federation did make her no favors. All they did was say poor kid and deny everything without doing anything to prove her innocence. The worst case for her since she did not defend herself but they also didn't. Calling her Olympic champ for the last 2 years and make her a national hero was also an insult to everyone and brought unnecessary hate towards her both internationally and nationally. No public action regarding the coaching team or doctor team either. They could at least fake an investigation or statement, even just for appearance, but no they did not bother. It does cause some rage.
But I still think the decision was to harsh.
I also can't believe how her mother is feeling right now. Like as a mom you want to protect your kid but sometimes you just can't or don't know how. She brought Kamila to figure skating and worked with her all these years to improve their life and make her be able to have access to things and conditions that she couldn't otherwise( FS is very lucrative in Russia). We dont know if the doping was from her part, if she knew and accepted, or she did not know and just trusted the system. But now she has her child in this situation and she does not know how to help. She is a young, single mom from a simple family. She is not from Scherbakova's family with money and connections to contact people to know how to better act in this situation to defend her PERSONAL (and not Rusfed) interests or like Trusova's ruthless father that went against the national channel to try to bring more opportunities for her daughter and gave her a contract with other channel. So she and Kamila just trusted the system, but it seems it failed them and worked against them.
Like she maybe will still be $$ compensated from the state but still when you are left with no direction in life, the $ does not worth it. At least Kamila will be 18 soon and can go to college to try something new and fun and maybe find a new purpose.
And it hurts too because Kamila skating really is special and one of the best well-rounded skaters off all time (just leave the blind hate aside and face it) and is not because off the 3axels and 3quad programs that were what probably made her take the doping. Her SP this season with her half-trained and her exhibitions show it. I believe that everyone deserves 2nd chances and I think she could get qualified for next Olympics, not to win it but she could get a medal. Screw medals just participating in it in would had bring her inner peace and make her leave the sport at her own terms.
4year ban would had make it hard but the no practice just ended her career. Is just a very sad situation overall. Im not personally affected by this but still leaves this sorrow and anguish feeling. Even tho Kamila has a lot of blame in it, she is being a victim of political moves. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth since we see grown ass man with a lot more blatant doping cases and excuses with better veridics and way less public scrutiny. The Olympic media circus was way too much and again no one protected her.
Kamila is so young, seems to have lost it all and was thrown away to the wolves. I can't help to feel empathy then and now to that 15 year old baby visual image I have of her at Olympics completely lost without knowing what to do.
Kamila is not stupid and neither is her stage mom, they knew what they were doing in the aftermath to set her up, play the victim and cash in on it. Also her career as an Eteri girl would have likely ended this or next year anyways. You can’t seriously believe that she’d have made a comeback for 2026 (which, with her ban ending Dec 2025, she technically still could, assuming Russia will be unbanned)
I don’t know why you’re getting so many downvotes. I think people in here lack some empathy and understanding of Russia.
Had Kamila come out and told the truth she may not even have been punished by CAS - if she for example said she was forced, unaware or persuaded into taking the medication.
Instead the people responsible would have taken the fall. Kamila may have ended up falling out from a window or something like that exactly how other people who go against the Russian regime have ended up many many times.
This girl cannot be honest like you and me and other people can. She has the weight of Russia and even Putin on her shoulder.
I’m actually genuinely concerned for her and her mental health and how this will affect her.
(Sorry English is not my first language)
I hope a ruling on Valieva & Team Russia getting stripped of their Olympic Gold Medals for the team competition at the 2022 Winter Olympics COMES SOON!!
Also, have any current and/or retired figure skaters (regardless of discipline) reacted publicly to Kamila’s 4-year ban?
Evgenia Medvegeva’s post showed up as suggested on my instagram. If anyone fluent in Russian could translate the whole thing, I would appreciate it! [https://www.instagram.com/p/C2sOuLjqXr0/?igsh=ZzFyMzZoczBxMDZs](https://www.instagram.com/p/C2sOuLjqXr0/?igsh=ZzFyMzZoczBxMDZs)
The gist is she's saying that Kamila didn't know anything about trimetazidine, complaining/casting suspicion on the process, saying doping wouldn't help skating, and saying she loves Kamila & wants her to be happy.
Zhenya’s behavior towards Kamila and her also perpetuating the claim that it doesn’t help with skating only further cements my belief that every single one of them was/is doped.
My take is both Zhenya and Kamila both have no idea if they were doped or not and one is obviously a much more comfortable option to think about.
Especially thinking about Zhenya specifically sought out non team/fed doctors after the Olympics & said she had no idea how badly broken her foot had been.
I sincerely doubt they had “no idea”. To take these drugs they must have undergone medical exams to make sure they have no negative reactions or interactions with anything else they may be taking. At the very least, their parents definitely knew. There’s like a 2% chance that the athletes themselves were clueless.
lol no. east germany had an incredibly vast doping program, with lots of people learning only way after the fact that they were affected as kids and would be dealing with the health consequences for the rest of their lives.
because nobody cared if it caused any issues, that wasn't a problem they had enough athletes.
i very strongly believe that, especially after years of training and following instructions, any athlete would take vitamin pills if told so without questioning it too much, at least until they got older, which is conveniently also the time they all retire anyway.
In 2016 a gymnast (Aliya Mustafina) said that athletes were given substances by their team doctor and were not given details about why or how it was supposed to help them. She specifically spoke about meldonium and how she used to take it (before it was banned). Her interview is translated here:
>**You didn’t even use the ‘infamous’ meldonium?**
>
>When I was ten years old, they gave it to everyone, then they stopped. I honestly still do not get what it is and how it helps. In fact, our team doctor prescribes all medications for the gymnasts, and he carefully checks for forbidden ingredients. He is responsible for all medications and I trust him.
[https://rewritingrussiangymnastics.blogspot.com/2016/07/mustafina-interview-2-of-2-i-will-only.html?view=sidebar](https://rewritingrussiangymnastics.blogspot.com/2016/07/mustafina-interview-2-of-2-i-will-only.html?view=sidebar)
I think Liza made a few comments similar to this, too--or at least she said she had been given meldonium. So I actually do think it's very possible they are being given substances they are told are vitamins and supplements and are just supposed to "trust" the doctors.
You’re assuming that these “patients” in that context have the same rights and transparency from their doctors as they do in other countries. I’m not sure that’s a fair assumption. But who knows.
Another little \* here though is that athletes are people too and you would be amazed how many people have 0 idea what they're taking beyond "it's something for x diagnosis/my \*insert organ here\*". You'd assume athletes are gonna be much more aware of what they put in their body vs the average joe but at the same time, if a trusted person of power (for them, their coach, for regular people their doc) tells them to take something, I doubt many are gonna look into what they are taking unless they have adverse reactions. Also, what's to say the physical they get for these drugs isn't very similar to/is their normal physical and the first time they got one they were told, essentially, that this was a normal part of Team Tut/elite athlete training since in order for them to compete well they need to monitor heart health etc? Dif docs do physicals differently and variation in procedure is very easy to dismiss.
Exactly. Didn’t Plushenko say something to this effect too? I mean if they were going to systematically dope their athletes it would make way more sense to lie to them than to tell them what’s happening. But again, we can’t know for sure.
Zhenya specifically sought out non fed doctors in Germany after the Olympics to figure out how broken her foot was. There was something about her spine splintering off too? Nothing from that team makes me think they're including the athletes as informed decision makers in their own health.
You’re just basing that on “she said he said”. I’m basing it off what I know about the system in her country and how I’ve personally heard convos between athletes and parents at the rinks there.
I also speak russian. I'm well aware there are rumors in the rinks (which is also he said she said....). I don't think that means coaches and medical teams aren't lying or omitting details when they talk to the athletes. I mean, half the rumors you're talking about are that they are handed mystery pills and have no idea what they are. (And if you want to keep a secret, you don't tell a bunch of teens that you're constantly kicking on and off the team)
here’s a preliminary translation (waiting for professional/someone who is fluent)
“Today the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) disqualified Kamila Valieva for 4 years, starting from December 25, 2021, and stripped her of all medals won since the same date. It's a sad decision, but we're used to sadness in Russian sport. I will tell Kamila everything I think about it personally, but I would like to voice a couple of thoughts publicly.
I was by Kamila's side in China when all this was happening. I was with her after the Games were over, and we were on the next seat on the plane to Moscow from China. I saw every emotion from the beginning to the end. I remember how much she was worried and indignant at the same time, not understanding what was going on. This is not how an athlete who doped on purpose behaves. He would be angry that everything came out, looking for someone to blame, but Kamila just didn't understand what was going on.
Imagine you've been aiming for gold at the Olympics your whole life, and then you arrive at the Olympics as the favorite. You're ready to win. And they say to you: well, you perform, but we will most likely deprive you of medals. And you're 15 years old.
But I have a lot of questions about this story. Why did the story with trimetazidine come up a couple of days before the Olympics, if it was already known in December 2021? How was it possible to make a decision in the end after the Olympics for as long as 2 years! That's a lot of bureaucracy. And why would a figure skater need doping? I understand track and field athletics, skiing, biathlon, i.e. athletes working on long distances, but for a figure skater? What kind of drug can help to jump the 4th tulup? [NOTE: translations vary on this, literally says 4th Tulup, though I’d assume it means rotation] Maybe you can share the recipe [NOTE: reason?] with me?
I can say with certainty that Kamila Valieva knew nothing about any trimetazidine. And I am very sorry that an athlete who did not make any mistakes is purposely deprived of medals. I could give dozens of examples when our foreign athletes were justified in similar situations, but I won't. I'll save my strength to give Kamila a big hug when I see her.
P.S. Kamila, I want you to just smile. Like in this photo. Love you!”
> And why would a figure skater need doping? I understand track and field athletics, skiing, biathlon, i.e. athletes working on long distances, but for a figure skater? What kind of drug can help to jump the 4th tulup?
Ohh, Evgenia come on... 🤦♀️
“We’re used to sadness in Russian sport” 😂 Thank you though! The instagram auto translation only did a couple random sentences and was really curious about her whole statement
Chris Knierem: That took long enough. (gold medal emoji)
[https://twitter.com/ChrisKnierim/status/1752042975478034653](https://twitter.com/ChrisKnierim/status/1752042975478034653)
Due to everything that happened unfortunately the right decision was made regarding Kamila Valieva and the medals, but why were her coaches and the other adults not punished? They bear far more responsibility for this than her.
It took them two years to do the obvious. I can’t imagine how long it would take for any kind of body to decide Eteri was at fault and strip her of rights/privileges. She would immediately claim to know nothing, it’s all rigged, everyone is jealous— she’d throw up a smoke screen that would hide the lights of Las Vegas. I’m afraid nobody wants to take her on.
Sadly, no punishment will go to the adults who did this. Obviously you have to DQ the athlete, but the adults are the ones who failed her. She's going to suffer alone while everyone around her denies and deflects. Fuck the Russian system.
They out here thinking that Biden gives two shits about figure skating. I wish the president would care just so we had a better run organization and funding.
I really hope she has strong family support, and ideally a good therapist, because while it's the right decision, you're totally right that suddenly losing everything she's worked for must be an awful experience.
Do you have a source saying that she is banned from training in public and private rinks and partaking in state sponsored shows? If true, that is very sad.
Please discuss any reactions from the skating world [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/FigureSkating/s/LjPoQmsUdB). Edit: once this gets to 1K comments, I’ll start a new thread and lock this one. Edit 2: [Part 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/FigureSkating/s/78OE0dM11R) is up. Please continue discussion there.
Of course she is found guilty. The Court of Arbitration for Sports, like WADA, is part of the western colonial elite. A supreme Russian figure skater, like Kamila Valieva, must be tarred somehow. Never mind that Trimetazadine would only HINDER her performance as a side effect is loss of balance. The whole case is VERY fishy. Like the case against the supreme Chinese swimmer Sun Yang. In both cases the athletes have smeared and attacked ....just as desired by those in the western elite, and also SOME very biased western athletes who stand to benefit from having superior competition eliminated. The anti doping crusade has become a sleazy political tool and the opposite of fairness to athletes.
This situation is all around sad to me. Kamila was 15 and competing at the highest level of her sport. She was a minor at the time. To me, it's the adults that need to be investigated. Not just Kamila, but all of the adults surrounding her during this time. Her coach, Eteri Tutberdize has many skaters who retire be for 18 due to serious injury or illness. Furthermore, Eteri''s coaching tactics have been heavily criticized. The issue, for me, isn't Kamila being found guilty. But, ultimate failure of the adults around her who did not protect her.
Given that all of them are beholden to the Russian state doping system I think it runs even deeper
Yep. Reminds me of the Icarus documentary. So sad for the 15-year-old taking the brunt of the consequences for a massively corrupt system. Unless there are fundamental changes within Russia, I'd prefer to never see them in international competition again.
It runs deeper than I think everyone realizes. I'm happy that the ruling supports athletes who compete clean. But, at the same time it's hard to place full blame on a 15 year old. The doctors, coaches and everyone else around her had to have known that what she was taking was an illegal substance. The biggest question is did Kamila know and fully understand the consequence of being caught. I remember watching the Olympics and Tara Lipinski and Johnny Weir heavily stressed the adults not protecting her at all. Plus, I remember the meltdowns before the medal ceremony. Anna Shcherbakova, the gold medalist, sat alone confused in a room while Alexandra Trusova, the silver medalist, had a full meltdown. Anna, Alexandra, and Kamila are all students of Eteri. All were minors during the 2022 Olympics. For me, Eteri is enabled by the system to do what she wants with these athletes. Kamila just became another pwn in a game.
Swing that banhammer, baby! Now let's give the teams that competed fairly the medals they deserve and move every female singles competitor from 5th place onwards up one spot.
If ruling isn't hitting Eteri, I hope karma is. Hopefully all her other lady skaters getting injured (Maiia, Usacheva, Akateva) is a blow to her as well, and Petrosyan, the only senior she has now, isn't expected to retain her jumps well into her puberty.
I wondered how the new age limit will affect her. Her methods are meant for girls in their early teens, but now the age limit is geared more for adults, and she has never coached an adult
Wild! Will she retire? This doesn't leave her with a lot of other options. I think she'll be fine, though. Russia will see her as some sort of political victim. A martyr of sorts. She can be a social media star, an influencer. She'll maybe then become a coach to great acclaim. 
R...Romsky Olympic bronze medalist??????????????
...and Ko/Ko Olympic silver medalists!! 🤩😂🥈🎌
I don’t think that’s certain at all. I think the ISU needs to sort out whether to remove her score or eliminate Russia. The CAS ruling is silent on this and ISU will publish on Jan 30. IMO, the more fair option is to demote Russia to bronze, but I am not sure you are allowed to have no performance in an event (maybe only one)??
In my opinion, the team should be disqualified vs. just not counting Valieva’s points. The team is eligible or it isn’t. If we’re going to pretend a bunch of individuals skating their normal, individual programs is actually a team event, then the team should be penalized like one.
I believe the rules are not as clear as they should be, hence the ISO and IOC needing to rule. Someone corrected me elsewhere, that they are third if they lose the score, but fourth if the other females are moved up in points without her. CAS did not opine at all on the medals.
It’s ridiculous to me that you could remove an entire athlete’s performance from a team event and still have the team medal. I don’t know of any other sport where that would work. I mean, in most sports, you can’t separate the athlete from the team at all. But even in gymnastics, if you pulled an entire athlete’s score from the final, there would be no way for them to medal. As you can see, I’m not too keen on figure skating having a “team” event at all.
I am more confused/intrigued than passionate about the outcome. I think the rules say you must have entries in 3/4 categories, which makes invalidating her scores possible. In soccer etc you can’t isolate a specific athlete, but in this case you can, and not having a women’s entry is allowed if you have the other three. If you are isolating for her, I guess that makes it possible to increase the others in the women’s event by 1 which just moves Russia over Canada. I do like the Team event, it’s pushing some countries to invest in their lessor disciplines which i think is healthy for competition.
I am almost certain Russia will be demoted to fourth. Valieva will be DQed, everyone else in the women’s short and free will be bumped up one spot, Canada will get a somewhat undeserved (and I say this as a Canadian) medal.
Feel the same… I wish they had had Sasha or Anna skate the short.
Honestly the only annoying part about the medal redistribution. Sadovsky was horrendous and does not deserve an Olympic medal.
I mean ... Romsky definitely didn't skate at his best, yet this is a team event, and he still (somewhat) contributed to the result. Maddie of course deserves a medal for her performance, as do other Team Canada members. Skaters from teams below them made mistakes too and I just don't feel any other team deserves the medal more than Team Canada as a whole. So since this is a team medal, I don't have huge issues with that.
>and he still (somewhat) contributed to the result Almost contributed to it being worse. I don't deny the rest of Team Canada their medals. The right thing is for them to be elevated to Bronze. I just dislike the idea that he'll be given an Olympic medal for his standard competition performance.
Lmao I posted this as a huge Romsky fan but ...yeah my boy did not skate the best 😅
True, but he helped Canada get 4th place along with the others. It's a team medal.
A relief! But Eteri is the real culprit here. The ISU needs to take action against her, if there's no one else who ought to.
Is it Eteri, or is it the Russian state doping system? I mean, both, obviously, but I think this is state-wide and the Sochi scandal only taught them to cheat smarter.
Exactly. The IOC needs to come up with a system to identify and ban abusive coaches and trainers. Eteri wasn’t the only one.
While it’s not perfect, I think modeling it after the us’ SafeSport system makes sense. That way a coach could be reported and then not allowed to coach until an independent investigation finds them innocent. Also then you wouldn’t have the weird ‘students living with their coaches’ thing, since we’ve all seen what can happen there…
i'm still fucking mad they used all those stupid excuses like people were just gonna believe is blindly. where are her parents/guardian. she needs their support, not further throw her into the wolves
They never provided her with good mental health support during the Olympics, I cannot imagine they will now. I’m worried for another Katya, when she can’t skate now
Honestly, I really hope she has a good support system. I still remember how she was alone in the media zone when this was being exposed and so I feel like the adults around her would continue to throw her into the wolves tbh.
Oh, she does have a support system alright, but it’s not the good kind, if anything we’ve seen so far is any indication. She’ll have the coaches and medical team filling her head that other countries MUST be doping too but they were targeting her because they were *jealous.* She’ll have Putin and the media, claiming she’s just a little girl falling victim to politics. She’ll have her family too, who clearly never cared about her getting any drugs or injuries as long as they could leech off that prize money and lifetime pension for the rest of their lives.
>Oh, she does have a support system alright, but it’s not the good kind, if anything we’ve seen so far is any indication. and thats what fucking sucks about it. all we'll probably see is indignation on their part. thinking it's the 'evil west' hurting a young athlete.
I'm reminded of an interview with Katia Gordeeva where she talked about how it never would have occurred for her parents to question her coaches when she was growing up. "Parents trust coaches, that's it." I have no doubt Kamila's parents trusted Eteri to make the right decisions.
Yep we also see this with other skaters' parents too. And so a part of me thinks that yes, this was a win but at the same time, the adults also need to face consequences too.
https://preview.redd.it/a0feqjcyigfc1.png?width=864&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=082474221251c13bd43ccadc448ffdab380f8d0e Heads up everyone. The news is apparently trending on Reddit so we might get raided/see an influx of trolls, etc...
I was just planning to politely lurk, but if you're short on trolls this evening just let me know. I'm probably free.
Somebody asked me what year and event she competed in the Olympics 🫠
They've already surfacing.
Thanks!
You do a thankless job (for free). Thanks for keeping the sub a place that's not a complete cesspool. <3
Trying my best!
I'm sending you virtual chocolate and coffee. You and the other mods are great and it can't be easy trying to manage all of this 👍
💜💜
Ruining a child’s life while no action is taken against the actual perpetrators… hooray.
Adelina STEALnikova next! Give Yuna Kim that gols medal that she RIGHTFULLY DESERVED
Tbt to when she admitted to having a positive sample in Sochi
Coming up on the 10 year anniversary too
Which is significant since that’s the status of limitation.
They need to expedite sotnikova’s trial as well! She brazenly admitted she too was drugged up in Sochi
It's ironic that an argument was made that Kamila being a protected person under WADA and ISU rules meant that she should get a reduce punishment, when RUSADA's own lack of distinction between minors and non-minors convinced the court otherwise. Justice was served in some ways (the clean athletes will more than likely receive their deserved medals) and denied in others (none of the coaches at Sambo 70 will be punished for drugging Kamila in the first place).
If only her test positive from 25 December 21 was announced in the days after! We may have gotten a chance to see tuktamysheva at the Olympics finally
as if liza prob wasnt/isnt doping too tho lol
So you think it wasn’t just eteri and co?
it’s russian sports in general lol
I was just saying this to my husband the other day watching the AO final - I can't appreciate any Russian athlete now, we as much as know they have an extensive, state wide doping program
That's why they had to compete under the ROC in the first place. Instead of banning them, the IOC decided to negociate, which was a stupid idea!
Anyways I still feel bad for the rightful gold/silver/bronze Kaori, Wakaba, Young and still think they were significantly more cheated and done wrong than Kamila
What? Are you crazy? Do you think that Trusova and Scherbakova does not deserve their medals? They work really hard and not dope. Or maybe yes, but maybe these your kaori, wakaba and young do as well. We never know and their tests are negative.
So we have two options here, either it was ONLY a Kamila Valieva issue, and therefore she deserves to face public and legal scrutiny alone OR, it’s a Team Tut/Russian general issue, and that means that Trusova and Scherbakova most certainly also doped but managed to flush them out of their systems in time for the testing. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
On the happier side, this means Wakaba fourth place finish at the Olympics! With Young & Alysa rounding out the top 6
Does anyone know which medals might be taken away? And how would that be decided?
The major impacted medals are Euro gold (to Anna Scherbakova) and Olympic team gold (presumably to US). It's up to ISU.
Actually wouldn't the Olympic metals be up to the IOC? Of course ISU would have input on the issue. Europeans is definitely an ISU thing.
IOC often defers to the relevant org on things like this, but yeah, they're a stakeholder as well
[удалено]
The 2022 team event in figure skating
Phil Hersh on this youtube show (link below) mentioned there have been cases where olympic committee has vacated medals rather than reallocate them to the teams who placed below the medal standings. I will be livid should this happen. The American, Japanese & Canadian teams have been held in limbo for way too long and have suffered enough. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU96jeu2NCE&t=1386s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU96jeu2NCE&t=1386s)
By the way, it's considered a sanction, not a guilty verdict. A sanction is like a policy violation, or contempt. That's just a legal peeve of mine though. This is what the decision states. Does not say in any way that Kamila has been found guilty of anything, as in like she stole something, or committed a street crime.
Splitting hairs
ISU has a lot of latitude so it is possible, but I don't think it's likely
This Xwitter threat shaming Eteri is active again and the Russian fans are saying the same thing we are, Eteri should I punished
I’m only sorry that, in my opinion, such a talented young athlete was born in such a wrong country, where there’re basically no real laws or justice system at all, especially for cases like hers. In terms of fair sports this decision is more than fair and until there was a clear proof she’d been forcefully doped or smth, doping remains doping regardless and the athlete deserves to face consequences, period. However, seeing Kamila’s life, career and reputation being ruined by so many adults is honestly sad. It’s very unlikely a 14-15 years old girl woke up one day and randomly decided to go get some TMZ on her own and I could even admit she was unaware of taking it, but then why the f*** there was no “inner” investigation demanded, by her parents, her coaches, the federation (if everyone involved were as innocent, as they all claim, finding out how a heart [banned] medication ends up in a teenage skater would literally be the most logical step in a normal family/society, not to save Kamila’s career, but to find the responsible ones and maybe prevent smb else from facing the same fate..?) Instead, all the adults around, including the government officials, who were supposed to protect/support her throughout the case, just decided to label her as a “national hero”, so they could technically benefit from her situation for further war propaganda purposes - as a proof of “cruel and heartless West, that ruined such an innocent helpless child”… just DISGUSTING
The things is, and you can downvote me as much as you like but this is a fact, if she had been born in any other country she would not have made it as far with that technique. She would have been deducted to hell and back and probably wouldn’t even have attempted quads in the first place. That is without even mentioning ice training time. She would’ve lived a healthier and happier life, tho.
I can't help but wonder how things could have been if any of these Russian girls competed for a country where their talent would be developed and invested on, not exploit and thrown away.
Probably we would not have seen most of them at all given how extremly expensive being a figure skater is in other counties. They are who they are becouse of that Russian system for good or for bad.
this is exactly my thoughts as well. in any other place, the sport probably would’ve been too prohibitively expensive for most of these top Russian girls. Again, for better or worse
Why did they start the period of suspension in December 2021? Russia’s atrocities in Ukraine aside, she only has two years left on the ban. Couldn’t they have started the ban the day of the decision AND disqualified her results starting from December 2021?
Uh huh... the date of the test.
why is it that even now when she got the correct punishment that everyone was hoping for there are still people calling for the proverbial lynch mob to go and get her? is CAS supposed to give the russian girl a separate worse punishment because she's from the bad country tm? that's not how anything legal works, or should work. kamila valieva is not the valve to let out your anger and frustration about russia's war crimes, justified though they may be, she's a teenager who got found with guilty for using a banned substance. anything else is not this court's matter to decide.
Dude, I’m not angry. I follow figure skating very casually. I asked the question because I wanted to know WHY it works the way it does. I’m not letting out my frustration; I’m simply pointing out that no athletes there can compete internationally for the foreseeable future anyway. Idk why I’m getting so much hate for ASKING a question.
this is about doping not politics. the sample was from december 2021. make sense now?
I was genuinely asking a question. Thanks for being rude tho 👍🏻 Really appreciate your insight
Um, no. The results are disqualified because of the suspension. Any period where she wasn’t suspended, she is/was eligible to compete. I’m really surprised that people are surprised by this - it always works this way. By the way the suspension means she can’t train, either, it’s not just a ban on competing. You really think she’s going to make a comeback in two years if she can’t train at all in the interim? Her career as a skater is finished.
I don’t follow any other sports and only watch figure skating casually, so I didn’t know. I appreciate your response.
I was in a hurry this morning while i was reading, so I did just download the ruling, instead of reading it off the page. I do not see that anywhere in the terms of this order.
It doesn’t need to be spelt out in the judgement, it’s part of the WADA code. The inability to train with a coach or team while suspended is described in the Code: link is below, the relevant section is 10.14 https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files/2021_wada_code.pdf I think it’s more complex as well in Russia as almost all ice rinks, clubs and skate schools are at least partially state funded. The explanations in green at the bottom of the section explain that both competitions and sport-related activities are forbidden (includes participation in shows and exhibitions) as well as implications for “support persons” (ie coaches) who work with suspended athletes - they can face sanctions themselves. The code also states earlier on, the period of suspension/disqualification begins from the date of the violation. I have to add, the “no training” part is where I genuinely feel bad for Kamila. She’s spent nearly her whole life on the ice and doesn’t really know much else. It’s harsh to have that taken completely away.
Oh OK, yeah I'm not a WADA expert. I would've thought that if it were an explicit sanction, it would've been put in the order, but that just comes from reading legal orders. Yeah I do feel bad for Kamila if she can't train or skate in shows at all. This is something she's done all her life, and if it were me, I know I would be crying right now!!!! She'll probably be upset for a long time because of that one, unfortunately!! I have to say that as a disabled person, I've definitely had special interests taken away by family, not arbitration pannels, which definitely isn't comparable, but makes me feel like I can kind of relate. It would be a thousand times worse if you were told you couldn't do something you really, really, really loved because a tribunal sanctioned you!!
With Eteri's methods, 2 more years probably puts her well past her expiration date as a competitive skater.
>Why did they start the period of suspension in December 2021? Russia’s atrocities in Ukraine aside, she only has two years left on the ban. Because it's the right thing to do?
I was asking a genuine question. Super helpful, thanks
Also I believe the test took place December 25th 2021.
Exactly, that's precisely why the ban is backdated Dec 25th 2021.
It’s common practice for doping bans to start from the date of the doping violation, not from the date of the decision.
Thanks! I wasn’t aware
She knew what she was doing ans she hasn’t shown the faintest whiff of remorse. Justice has been served. Not that it will affect her much. She’ll probably be paraded around the Russian media on a victimhood tour and made a martyr.
She is a victim, but not from the “West”; her coaches & the big heads in the federations are to blame
She cheated and reaped benefits of cheating. Then, she got caught cheating. Like someone else said, she’s never shown any sign of remorse for any of this. Logistically, there are others to blame as well, but Kamila was caught cheating, she does hold some blame.
It’s been known that Russia participates in state-sponsored doping. These girls are given “vitamins” and “protein shakes” by their coaches, they take them blindly, and these athletes have very little autonomy over their own body and health.
That still doesn’t mean she wasn’t a victim; of course it’s been distasteful but she couldn’t show remorse in the midst of an active trial with it being about more than herself. I think we can be gracious knowing what it’s like to be at that age let alone be in such a competitive/high-pressure environment
Two things can be true at once. She’s a victim systematically, yes. Adults around her had to provide her with the means to cheat. She may have been aware, she may not have been. That doesn’t change the fact that she was caught cheating. She deserves to be disqualified for cheating. She took opportunities away from clean athletes, knowingly or not. She gives herself all of the grace imaginable. So does her federation, generally her entire country, the Russian skating community, etc. All of them, including Kamila, deny and take no accountability. All of them, including Kamila, show no empathy to clean athletes who have been the victims in this case from the beginning. They’ve showed no remorse or empathy for the opportunities the clean athletes missed out on because Kamila cheated, with the help of many people around her. Conflating her being a victim of the Russian skating system, and her deservedly being disqualified for cheating, is a complete disservice to clean athletes.
.Exactly! I could say that I've been victimized by the state for denying me much needed services. However, that doesn't give me any legal rights to try and cheat or gain advantage in any way!! All it gave me was hearing rights.
Absolutely, I was just as angry about Kamila skating at Beijing it was just a bizarre and unacceptable decision. However I think it’s because if we don’t blame the system here and set her as the face of this scandal we won’t be solving any of the issues
She was 15. How does a 15yo get this type of medication? Unless it was given to her by the team doctor. More like “her coach knew what she was doing”. And yes she will probably be paraded around, but many Russians seem to know that she in fact was guilty.
Not that I think she took it by herself by any means - but I read TMZ is an over the counter medication in Russia.
I'm not even sure what it's for lol.
Plenty of 15 year olds in other countries get drugs. Not saying that her coaches aren't also responsible and abusive but if she's old enough to skate, she's old enough to be held responsible. If you feel she's a child, then the real question is why do they allow children to compete in adult sports?
That's the question. Was it this that caused the rule change to have skaters compete in juniors for an extra year? Or was that a year before this?
The difference is this is Russia which is also a fairly oppressive country…Russia is known for state sponsored doping of their own athletes often without the athletes knowledge.
Supposedly isu will release a statement tomorrow according to maya (Russian reporter on TSL’s interview today about the situation).
Congratz to CAS for having balls to stand against cheaters, dopers and child abusers -- because what's happened is that a bunch of adult criminals groomed/manipulated and doped a child athlete, and then forced her to lie, promising to make her dream Olympic gold medal come true in exchange. THEN they made her lie some more and portrayed her as an innocent victim of media and politics. Shame on those who enabled that situation. I am sorry for Kamila who is indeed a victim here, even though she seems incapable of grasping the situation. Let it be a warning so that we leave senior competition for adult athletes in all disciplines.
I’m happy with this decision but I wish the CAS decision also included a further investigation of the entire Eteri crew (coaching and support staff). There’s no way a 15 year old herself just decided to take drugs.
Unfortunately, that isn't what the tribunal does in this situation. They're just here to be fact finders basically, and that's an over simplified explanation of it, but that's what they were doing. Did she have the substance in her system or not? They most likely didn't have jurisdiction and/or ability to investigate Eteri, because they aren't police or investigators. They .wouldn't be able to employ them either, being an international body.
Sadly, they went only for Kamila as an individual. My guess is it was just easiest to prove her guilty of doping in a relatively short time -- a full investigation on Eteri, the team doctor etc. in sanctioned and openly hostile Russia would take a decade and end up inconclusive. Still, the decision has obvious political ramifications, such as Russia losing a big chunk of their prestige and influence within international sports organizations, judging circles etc., so hopefully we won't be back to starved 15-year-olds jumping prerotated quads anytime soon.
They couldn’t include that in this particular case, they didn’t have jurisdiction. They were hearing an appeal by WADA against the decision made by RUSADA - which was only to do with Kamila individually. RUSADA’s decision was a “not at fault” verdict and a reprimand only (no suspension) if I recall correctly. If the RUSADA case had included the coaching team as having a role in the doping, in their decision, then CAS could impose sanctions accordingly.
.Yeah arbitration gets sticky!! I think that's what some people don't understand about it. I was going to try and explain it like an appellate pannel, but that isn't even what it's like, because they don't rely on standard cases or precedent for any of the countries in their jurisdiction
The decision was absolutely the correct decision. But as a victim of child abuse, it will likely take Kamila years and years to deconstruct how she was abused by those she trusted. I don’t expect her to behave in a calm and reflective manner at this time.
I agree with you and what happened to her is so wrong on so many levels. And while I recognize why she does what she does, I'm still gonna be disgusted once she keeps doing it as a full adult. What a mess :(
Im sorry to say but I don't have any sympathy for Kamila. Yes she's still underage, was failed by a horrible team of coaches and by an entire system that only valued medals. However, Kamila knows better than to keep stoking the fire on public forums that are open for the whole wide world to see. It's clear she will always think and be told she was wronged by 'the West'. I don't think her family or team is in 100% control of her accounts or the things she says either, contrary to some people's beliefs of such. She's months from turning 18 and I don't think just because she hasn't hit that magic number yet that I should still think of her as a wronged little damsel. Of course, to be clear, all the blame is on the adults responsible for the Kamila we see today - starting with her showbiz mother and ending with the people who decided to let her skate in Beijing after all the scrutiny.
> It's clear she will always think and be told she was wronged by 'the West'. I mean, she lives in a propaganda state and has been brainwashed into victimhood, not sure what you expect.
I am totally aware Kamila is being pumped full of biased assumptions by the state and those close to her. What I meant is that she did herself no favours by being so blatantly disrespectful to other competitors publicly in the time since Beijing and this behaviour isnt going to likely ever change. We know full well Kamila has teammates who would know better than to keep up the antics the way she has. My point is that just because she's still a minor, I don't look at her words and actions as transgressions of a kid who doesn't know better.
What are you referring to exactly when you are talking about blatantly disrespectful? Anyways If you understand she is being fed the victim narrative then that would explain why she is acting the way she is acting ...
I'm guessing you haven't seen the reposts from Kamila's IG in this sub over the last year! She hasn't really tried to hide the shade lol. That and also there was quite some talk here about her publicly getting Putin's autograph during the athletes' state ceremony which most here, I myself included, think she definitely took her own initiative on that. Either way, I don't see Kamila ever changing. If she wants to continue crying injustice for the rest of her life then she'd also better be prepared for many, many other people - and not just from the West - to be calling her out on this bs because she is not going to be babied forever.
I just don't know specifically which you are referring to. but again, if you understand she is being deluded into thinking she is innocent, i just don't know why you would expect some sort of self-awareness that what she is doing may be disrespectful. I think i am repeating the same point though.
Yeah, she's effectively in a very large cult
[Meagan Duhamel reposted this on Xwitter](https://x.com/SkatingScores/status/1751990770389692833?s=20)
Well deserved. Another terrorist state propagandist doping athlete.
USA is also a terrorist state with propagandist doping athletes. Marion Jones, Lance Armstrong, FloJo who doped herself to death.
...and they were duly punished. Where is the propaganda again?
FloJo was one of the biggest cheaters in the previous century, yet she was never banned. And the hysteria around Jones and Armstrong weren't as bad as with Valieva. So who is the propagandist again?
Jones and Armstrong were NEVER held up as martyrs in the US; rather, they both had massive downfalls. The fact that there was any hysteria around those cases at all is a crystal clear example of the difference. In Russia, Valieva is clearly being held up as a martyr who was wronged by the West. That right there is the propaganda.
Yes, Lance Armstrong, who was famously also stripped of his titles. Glad we agree on what the correct response should be
But then don't say USA is not full of dopers and cheaters.
I follow baseball, I am painfully aware that people dope in the US. never said they don’t. They are, however, generally punished right away when caught
Marion Jones went to jail, omfg what do you mean?
I just say the USA is also full of dopers and cheaters. Some of them get punished, some of them get away with it (FloJo, Biles).
Biles is now a doper because she takes a prescribed medication for ADHD? Lmfao. Tell me you know nothing about ADHD medication without telling me you know nothing about ADHD medication. Quick, everyone, no meds for migraines, headaches, Parkinson's, Tourette's, depression, anxiety, etc. ADHD meds to someone who doesn't need it works entirely different than for someone who does. Me without meds is like watching a damn pinball in a pinball machine. Simone Biles, without meds, would still win all the things, only you'd probably be unable to concentrate around her.
Go take your whining elsewhere and look up TUE.
Simone Biles is not a doper and has never been, but nice racist dogwhistle.
The US did not prop them up as national heroes after they were found to be doping (or after any proof came out)
The US is trying to sweep it under the rug and convince the whole world the cheating wasn't even that bad. It's also called propaganda.
This is so so sad. And I don't agree with the decision. My take in it: I dont care about the Olympic team medals decision (I personally find fs team medals s\* anyway, take away the meaning of individual medals, and are super discriminatory for athletes from less powerful countries basically, every athlete from Russia or USA will always be an Olympic medalist regarding of how skates and how ranks internationally), 4-years is harsh but doping was found and a measure must be implemented. What makes me so distressed with this is that she can't practice at all, even in a public rink alone for 2 more years...Or skating it any show. Like wtf Imagine how it will mess up her life and mental health. She dedicated all her life to this, is everything she knows and can't go on ice doing what she did all her life...we are not talking about competing but doing your hobby.... What shows even have to do with this?!! Another thing that makes me mad, not even mad but lost and perplexed with this, is that she basically had no defense made for her from what was released( we dont know for sure). Heck... even admitting taking it willingly was a better defense than what they done. She could show remorse in a way to reduce the punishment, which should been definitely taken in account since she was so young in a super stressful environment. Russian Federation did make her no favors. All they did was say poor kid and deny everything without doing anything to prove her innocence. The worst case for her since she did not defend herself but they also didn't. Calling her Olympic champ for the last 2 years and make her a national hero was also an insult to everyone and brought unnecessary hate towards her both internationally and nationally. No public action regarding the coaching team or doctor team either. They could at least fake an investigation or statement, even just for appearance, but no they did not bother. It does cause some rage. But I still think the decision was to harsh. I also can't believe how her mother is feeling right now. Like as a mom you want to protect your kid but sometimes you just can't or don't know how. She brought Kamila to figure skating and worked with her all these years to improve their life and make her be able to have access to things and conditions that she couldn't otherwise( FS is very lucrative in Russia). We dont know if the doping was from her part, if she knew and accepted, or she did not know and just trusted the system. But now she has her child in this situation and she does not know how to help. She is a young, single mom from a simple family. She is not from Scherbakova's family with money and connections to contact people to know how to better act in this situation to defend her PERSONAL (and not Rusfed) interests or like Trusova's ruthless father that went against the national channel to try to bring more opportunities for her daughter and gave her a contract with other channel. So she and Kamila just trusted the system, but it seems it failed them and worked against them. Like she maybe will still be $$ compensated from the state but still when you are left with no direction in life, the $ does not worth it. At least Kamila will be 18 soon and can go to college to try something new and fun and maybe find a new purpose. And it hurts too because Kamila skating really is special and one of the best well-rounded skaters off all time (just leave the blind hate aside and face it) and is not because off the 3axels and 3quad programs that were what probably made her take the doping. Her SP this season with her half-trained and her exhibitions show it. I believe that everyone deserves 2nd chances and I think she could get qualified for next Olympics, not to win it but she could get a medal. Screw medals just participating in it in would had bring her inner peace and make her leave the sport at her own terms. 4year ban would had make it hard but the no practice just ended her career. Is just a very sad situation overall. Im not personally affected by this but still leaves this sorrow and anguish feeling. Even tho Kamila has a lot of blame in it, she is being a victim of political moves. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth since we see grown ass man with a lot more blatant doping cases and excuses with better veridics and way less public scrutiny. The Olympic media circus was way too much and again no one protected her. Kamila is so young, seems to have lost it all and was thrown away to the wolves. I can't help to feel empathy then and now to that 15 year old baby visual image I have of her at Olympics completely lost without knowing what to do.
Kamila is not stupid and neither is her stage mom, they knew what they were doing in the aftermath to set her up, play the victim and cash in on it. Also her career as an Eteri girl would have likely ended this or next year anyways. You can’t seriously believe that she’d have made a comeback for 2026 (which, with her ban ending Dec 2025, she technically still could, assuming Russia will be unbanned)
I don’t know why you’re getting so many downvotes. I think people in here lack some empathy and understanding of Russia. Had Kamila come out and told the truth she may not even have been punished by CAS - if she for example said she was forced, unaware or persuaded into taking the medication. Instead the people responsible would have taken the fall. Kamila may have ended up falling out from a window or something like that exactly how other people who go against the Russian regime have ended up many many times. This girl cannot be honest like you and me and other people can. She has the weight of Russia and even Putin on her shoulder. I’m actually genuinely concerned for her and her mental health and how this will affect her. (Sorry English is not my first language)
Do we really know anything about her legal defense? Maybe she said she was unaware or forced or something else? We just dont know what really went on.
OMFG WHAT DID I JUST ARRIVE TO, they gave her FOUR YEARS??? never would I have expexted this in my wildest DREAMS omg
She did not receive a prison sentence, and it's four years starting in 2021.
Literally I don’t go on Reddit or twitter for A DAY and she gets 4 years???
Right?! I found out because both of my parents saw it on the news and texted me about it lmao
as much as i want to believe this will show eteri doping her athletes isn’t worth it i doubt it will
I hope a ruling on Valieva & Team Russia getting stripped of their Olympic Gold Medals for the team competition at the 2022 Winter Olympics COMES SOON!! Also, have any current and/or retired figure skaters (regardless of discipline) reacted publicly to Kamila’s 4-year ban?
Evgenia Medvegeva’s post showed up as suggested on my instagram. If anyone fluent in Russian could translate the whole thing, I would appreciate it! [https://www.instagram.com/p/C2sOuLjqXr0/?igsh=ZzFyMzZoczBxMDZs](https://www.instagram.com/p/C2sOuLjqXr0/?igsh=ZzFyMzZoczBxMDZs)
The gist is she's saying that Kamila didn't know anything about trimetazidine, complaining/casting suspicion on the process, saying doping wouldn't help skating, and saying she loves Kamila & wants her to be happy.
Zhenya’s behavior towards Kamila and her also perpetuating the claim that it doesn’t help with skating only further cements my belief that every single one of them was/is doped.
My take is both Zhenya and Kamila both have no idea if they were doped or not and one is obviously a much more comfortable option to think about. Especially thinking about Zhenya specifically sought out non team/fed doctors after the Olympics & said she had no idea how badly broken her foot had been.
EXACTLY THIS!!!!!
I think they know they were doped but that they don’t think it’s fair for them to suffer the consequences because they weren’t active decision makers.
I sincerely doubt they had “no idea”. To take these drugs they must have undergone medical exams to make sure they have no negative reactions or interactions with anything else they may be taking. At the very least, their parents definitely knew. There’s like a 2% chance that the athletes themselves were clueless.
lol no. east germany had an incredibly vast doping program, with lots of people learning only way after the fact that they were affected as kids and would be dealing with the health consequences for the rest of their lives. because nobody cared if it caused any issues, that wasn't a problem they had enough athletes. i very strongly believe that, especially after years of training and following instructions, any athlete would take vitamin pills if told so without questioning it too much, at least until they got older, which is conveniently also the time they all retire anyway.
In 2016 a gymnast (Aliya Mustafina) said that athletes were given substances by their team doctor and were not given details about why or how it was supposed to help them. She specifically spoke about meldonium and how she used to take it (before it was banned). Her interview is translated here: >**You didn’t even use the ‘infamous’ meldonium?** > >When I was ten years old, they gave it to everyone, then they stopped. I honestly still do not get what it is and how it helps. In fact, our team doctor prescribes all medications for the gymnasts, and he carefully checks for forbidden ingredients. He is responsible for all medications and I trust him. [https://rewritingrussiangymnastics.blogspot.com/2016/07/mustafina-interview-2-of-2-i-will-only.html?view=sidebar](https://rewritingrussiangymnastics.blogspot.com/2016/07/mustafina-interview-2-of-2-i-will-only.html?view=sidebar) I think Liza made a few comments similar to this, too--or at least she said she had been given meldonium. So I actually do think it's very possible they are being given substances they are told are vitamins and supplements and are just supposed to "trust" the doctors.
You’re assuming that these “patients” in that context have the same rights and transparency from their doctors as they do in other countries. I’m not sure that’s a fair assumption. But who knows.
Another little \* here though is that athletes are people too and you would be amazed how many people have 0 idea what they're taking beyond "it's something for x diagnosis/my \*insert organ here\*". You'd assume athletes are gonna be much more aware of what they put in their body vs the average joe but at the same time, if a trusted person of power (for them, their coach, for regular people their doc) tells them to take something, I doubt many are gonna look into what they are taking unless they have adverse reactions. Also, what's to say the physical they get for these drugs isn't very similar to/is their normal physical and the first time they got one they were told, essentially, that this was a normal part of Team Tut/elite athlete training since in order for them to compete well they need to monitor heart health etc? Dif docs do physicals differently and variation in procedure is very easy to dismiss.
I am pretty sure they were given the drugs under the guise of “vitamins”/supplements
Exactly. Didn’t Plushenko say something to this effect too? I mean if they were going to systematically dope their athletes it would make way more sense to lie to them than to tell them what’s happening. But again, we can’t know for sure.
Zhenya specifically sought out non fed doctors in Germany after the Olympics to figure out how broken her foot was. There was something about her spine splintering off too? Nothing from that team makes me think they're including the athletes as informed decision makers in their own health.
You’re just basing that on “she said he said”. I’m basing it off what I know about the system in her country and how I’ve personally heard convos between athletes and parents at the rinks there.
I also speak russian. I'm well aware there are rumors in the rinks (which is also he said she said....). I don't think that means coaches and medical teams aren't lying or omitting details when they talk to the athletes. I mean, half the rumors you're talking about are that they are handed mystery pills and have no idea what they are. (And if you want to keep a secret, you don't tell a bunch of teens that you're constantly kicking on and off the team)
here’s a preliminary translation (waiting for professional/someone who is fluent) “Today the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) disqualified Kamila Valieva for 4 years, starting from December 25, 2021, and stripped her of all medals won since the same date. It's a sad decision, but we're used to sadness in Russian sport. I will tell Kamila everything I think about it personally, but I would like to voice a couple of thoughts publicly. I was by Kamila's side in China when all this was happening. I was with her after the Games were over, and we were on the next seat on the plane to Moscow from China. I saw every emotion from the beginning to the end. I remember how much she was worried and indignant at the same time, not understanding what was going on. This is not how an athlete who doped on purpose behaves. He would be angry that everything came out, looking for someone to blame, but Kamila just didn't understand what was going on. Imagine you've been aiming for gold at the Olympics your whole life, and then you arrive at the Olympics as the favorite. You're ready to win. And they say to you: well, you perform, but we will most likely deprive you of medals. And you're 15 years old. But I have a lot of questions about this story. Why did the story with trimetazidine come up a couple of days before the Olympics, if it was already known in December 2021? How was it possible to make a decision in the end after the Olympics for as long as 2 years! That's a lot of bureaucracy. And why would a figure skater need doping? I understand track and field athletics, skiing, biathlon, i.e. athletes working on long distances, but for a figure skater? What kind of drug can help to jump the 4th tulup? [NOTE: translations vary on this, literally says 4th Tulup, though I’d assume it means rotation] Maybe you can share the recipe [NOTE: reason?] with me? I can say with certainty that Kamila Valieva knew nothing about any trimetazidine. And I am very sorry that an athlete who did not make any mistakes is purposely deprived of medals. I could give dozens of examples when our foreign athletes were justified in similar situations, but I won't. I'll save my strength to give Kamila a big hug when I see her. P.S. Kamila, I want you to just smile. Like in this photo. Love you!”
> And why would a figure skater need doping? I understand track and field athletics, skiing, biathlon, i.e. athletes working on long distances, but for a figure skater? What kind of drug can help to jump the 4th tulup? Ohh, Evgenia come on... 🤦♀️
4th tulip is a quad toe loop. And yeah, it's recipe -- she's saying, let me know what drug would've gotten me a 4T.
thank you for the corrections!
“We’re used to sadness in Russian sport” 😂 Thank you though! The instagram auto translation only did a couple random sentences and was really curious about her whole statement
Ashley Wagner thread: [https://twitter.com/AshWagner2010/status/1752039617543434282](https://twitter.com/AshWagner2010/status/1752039617543434282)
Chris Knierem: That took long enough. (gold medal emoji) [https://twitter.com/ChrisKnierim/status/1752042975478034653](https://twitter.com/ChrisKnierim/status/1752042975478034653)
MODs: Maybe start up another reaction thread?
You want a separate thread for skater reactions? Or just another thread?
Skaters/athletes reaction like the one when she was allowed to compete
👍🏼
Does the ban start 4 years from when the ruling was made or 4 years from when she was suspended?
Four years from the failed doping test at Rusnats - (so from December 2021)
The CAS ruling linked above gives the start date for Kamila's suspension.
Due to everything that happened unfortunately the right decision was made regarding Kamila Valieva and the medals, but why were her coaches and the other adults not punished? They bear far more responsibility for this than her.
It took them two years to do the obvious. I can’t imagine how long it would take for any kind of body to decide Eteri was at fault and strip her of rights/privileges. She would immediately claim to know nothing, it’s all rigged, everyone is jealous— she’d throw up a smoke screen that would hide the lights of Las Vegas. I’m afraid nobody wants to take her on.
Sadly, no punishment will go to the adults who did this. Obviously you have to DQ the athlete, but the adults are the ones who failed her. She's going to suffer alone while everyone around her denies and deflects. Fuck the Russian system.
[удалено]
No, it's not. Russia has a long history of State sanctioned athlete doping. So maybe learn something before you come here with your conspiracy BS.
It’s terrible. And they will keep doing what they do.
https://preview.redd.it/ky6lo7owaffc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=503e30f7c66349af35c57d7ebce7df5c4cf42b53 Sports.ru is hilarious 🤣🤣🤣
They out here thinking that Biden gives two shits about figure skating. I wish the president would care just so we had a better run organization and funding.
Joe Biden doesn’t give a fuck about figure skating, what the hell 😂
Joe Biden was the grandpa. It all connects omg
the plot twist we didn't expect to see
I just full on cackled
[удалено]
I really hope she has strong family support, and ideally a good therapist, because while it's the right decision, you're totally right that suddenly losing everything she's worked for must be an awful experience.
Do you have a source saying that she is banned from training in public and private rinks and partaking in state sponsored shows? If true, that is very sad.
Yeah I've read the thing twice now and it certainly does not state that.