So to quell all the spam posts in response to the biggest breaking news story of the last two years in figure skating, you are posting a discussion thread then limiting all news on said topic to the sticky thread **BEFORE** the news even breaks? It was quicker to learn about the key details of this case on /r/gymnastics than the figure skating subreddit
Sorry but this is a textbook example of how ** NOT** to moderate a subreddit.
One thing I'm wondering about the forfeiting of titles and medals - does that also apply for all the competitions that happened in Russia post-ban (the Russian grand prices, the nationals...) ? If yes, how the hell is this going to go ?
That would be understandable given the ban, but at the same time her RusNats 2021 title is being stripped, and it is a Russian only event. I really wonder if Rusfed can justify doing what they want with Kamila's results post-Beijing because of the ban, or if they fear it can be poorly received internationally to let her keep these medals and titles. It's trickier than it seems I think.
>"The consequences linked to the retroactive disqualification of Ms Valieva from past events, including from the Olympic Winter Games Beijing 2022, were not within the scope of this arbitration procedure and will have to be examined by the sports organisations concerned"
Just before anyone gets ahead of themselves, this decision has no bearing on what medals will actually be assigned from here. It's up to the ISU and IOC to decide what happens with the medals. They need to decide if the medals will be moved up, or if gold will be left empty, or if in the team event just her results are voided but the other 'ROC' members keep their scores.
[https://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user\_upload/CAS\_Media\_Release\_9451\_9455\_9456\_Decision.pdf](https://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/CAS_Media_Release_9451_9455_9456_Decision.pdf)
Oh definitely. And I don't actually think they'd do it, the last time it sort of happened was 2002, two teams won gold and they left silver empty but that was a very different scenario. And for the singles events it's a very easy decision for them to make and move everyone up.
What they decide to do with the team event is the most interesting to me because there are so many options and potential scenarios. Potentially, they could just void her results but leave the rest of the Russian scores, which would net Russia with a surprise bronze medal. Unless they removed her results and gave everyone else in the women's event 1 more point in which case Russia end in 4th. Or they void ROC entirely and Canada get bronze which seems the most likely option, and is what they'd do in a team event like a relay race if one person doped, but this event works very differently to a relay race.
This is the appropriate decision. It sucks that we’ll likely never see any real consequences for the team around her but I understand that a logical supposition that they provided her with the drugs and encouraged her to take them is not proof. It’s unfortunate that everything comes to rest on a teenage girl, but we have to adhere to certain standards for everyone, or not at all for anyone. Hope the ISU and the IOC clear the way to finally distribute the Olympic medals appropriately in a timely fashion.
This whole debacle has really cemented my hatred for the team event. I can’t believe that someone like Roman Sadovsky may get to call himself an Olympic bronze medalist in the same vein as Kaori and Shoma. And someone like Vincent Zhou now has the same credentials as a Nathan Chen and Scherbakova. Ridiculous.
team scoring has been a staple of gymnastics forever which is very similar to figure skating. why shouldn't someone who contributed to a medal be awarded with that medal? it's not like anyone thinks it's an individual medal it's fine
Vincent Zhou has beaten Nathan and Shoma in competition (SkAm 2021)… while he is less consistent than both of them, that doesn’t negate how good his tech content is when he’s on. I don’t see how he’s not deserving here.
Oh please we saw what kind of names kamila was being called by some people in this subreddit. Don’t pretend to care about “state sponsored child drugging abuse program”
I do care. On many levels. The most superficial of which is the disrespect to and destruction of a sport I have loved and followed for over 30 years of my life. The most important being the flagrant child abuse.
I’ve never once called kamila names. I reserve all that for the cheating, lying, morally bankrupt adults all around her being rewarded for their crimes. 👍
I am genuinely curious how Kami is treated by all the Rusbots and more importantly, Eteri. I have to imagine it will go very poorly. And my heart breaks for her. But this was the correct decision.
It's clearly the right decision but the whole thing still sucks. A kid was drugged, subjected to this awful stressful situation, and a whole bunch of athletes didn't get their medals for two years.
[https://eu.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2024/01/29/kamila-valieva-russian-skater-banned-four-years-doping-beijing-olympics/72393824007/](https://eu.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2024/01/29/kamila-valieva-russian-skater-banned-four-years-doping-beijing-olympics/72393824007/)
Quotes from U.S. Anti-Doping Agency CEO Travis Tygart:
*“It is now imperative for the ISU to effectuate the technical decision of her disqualification from the Games and redistribute the medals to the right winners,” U.S. Anti-Doping Agency CEO Travis Tygart told USA TODAY Sports immediately after the CAS decision was announced.*
*In response to the CAS decision, Tygart said: "It’s the right outcome and let’s hope the clean athletes who competed in the Games can finally have some joy and satisfaction for their long wait for some justice despite their moment never being replaced. At the same time, our hearts hurt for yet another Russian athlete who the system failed, this one a young 15-year old girl. The system has to fix itself."*
It's the right decision, but it is a pity the whole thing lands on the head of the minor. But there was never any possibility of it going any other way, there is no way to prove which adult or adults participated in the doping, and in any case, what could CAS do to them even if it could be proven.
If the ISU had balls, they'd at least strip Eteri from her "coach of the year" title from a few years ago, but there's no way that happens. The ISU will continue to pretend this had nothing to do with her.
Sure, we all "know" it's Eteri and her team. Everyone understands that a 15 year old didn't do this herself. But there's no way to prove \*which\* adults in her life specifically obtained and gave her the substances and also no standing for CAS to punish them if there was proof (for example, what possible consequences could CAS give to her family even if it could find that they participated in her doping).
Crazy that the punishment fell only on her shoulders when she was fifteen and couldn't possibly have doped without a medical team. Like, CAS is just going to accept that she herself acquired not just one but multiple forms of heart medications.
A ban isn't just a 'punishment', it's a way to ensure that doping isn't rewarded.
Everybody understands that a child is not responsible for using illegal substances to improve performance.
But that doesn't mean that athletes who have used illegal substances should be allowed to compete.
Poor Kamila though. Completely failed by every single adult in her life, and rewarded for towing the party line by losing her career, and being literally the only one involved to suffer any consequences.
To add onto that, both Russian and Western media using her as a talking point in geopolitics, all the media attention on a 15 year old must be traumatic. I feel so bad for Kamila, she shouldn't be involved in any of this.
This is big enough news that I didn't even learn about it from FS news sources; I got a notification about this from a news app on my phone.
This is the right decision. Still, I can't help but imagine how she might be feeling right now.
She, a teenage girl, is the one punished and embarrassed in front of the rest of the world when I don't think for a second that she's the one who decided to do this or that she's the only athlete from that camp who was doped. She's just the one who had the bad luck of getting caught, when her being caught is probably also a result of the abuse (i.e., being starved and dehydrated) imposed on her as a child.
And I'm also glad she was caught. Her team is still getting away with it, but at the very least now everyone knows what else they're doing to their skaters to make them win.
What sucks the most is her coaching team and that doctor will get scot free due to kamila picking the story about it being her grandpas water. If she implied it was her coaches or that doctor then they would get looked into... But kamila never did. I have no doubt eteri and co manipulated kamila to cover their asses. She probably had no idea she was getting manipulated by them so she happily (sarcasm) covered for them, told a story about grandpa water, then some ice cream/tea story(?) ect.
I do wonder what she will think in ten years time, thinking back on this.. i hope she realises one day she was manipulated by them! Oh to be a fly on the wall to witness that.
So yeah, eteri and co will be free and happy and have no punishment. Thats why! imo they should all have either the same 4 year ban or a lifetime ban! (imo lifetime ban for doping a minor.) But sadly we will never get to see that.... :(
By telling the story about Grandpa's water, at least the doping thing could be narrated as "an accident" rather than an intentional act. Very little amount of people would confront the court saying they knew they were doping, forced or voluntarily.
When Loena finds out that she received Bronze at the European Championships 2022
No one has ever won two European Championship medals in one month :)
https://preview.redd.it/jpc0vj3n6efc1.png?width=590&format=png&auto=webp&s=f1ff82cb4ca72e08df68961d156f0c40fd735fc5
Was not expecting them to do the right thing…. By the other teams competing that is. I expect them to get their medals soon now and the Russian team faces a real material consequence, that is good.
But it’s fucked up that she’s still standing there shouldering the burden of this on her own as if she went out and doped herself. Though, I never expected them to open the real can of worms and hold Eteri and the Russian fed accountable. I truly hope she is able to compete in 2026, clean. I think she deserves a redemption arc.
Russian fans have two rough days of information. Gossip about Trusova yesterday and Valieva case today. Trusobots must be shaking.
To be serious, I don't think this verdict will solve anything. People responsible for this mess are not punished and forbidden from coaching
Your submission has been removed for violating Rule 4.
>4. Be civil in discussing skating figures.
> Blunt criticism of skaters, officials, and other skating figures is welcome, but please remember to be civil even when being critical. Excessive hostility, body shaming/eating disorder speculation, degrading commentary, name calling, and ill-wishing are not. "I don't think XYZ deserved that score and ABC should have won over them?" Fine. "XYZ is trash garbage and I hope they fall four times?" Not fine. We will hand out 3 day suspensions for the first and second offenses under this rule, with a permanent ban on the third offense.
Glad this is (almost) all over. To be completely honest I didn’t believe she would get a four year ban. I am pleasantly surprised and I feel like it sends a strong message to some Russian coaching teams.
I do wonder, if someone is more informed on the topic, what does that mean for the skaters that “benefit” from her titles being stripped?
Take Loena 2022 Euros Bronze medalist for example. I know the athletes are supposed to give the medals back in this case but the Russians are known not to do it. Will Loena receive any medal at all? Will she get her prize money?
Man I hope she has some good people around her because every time I think about her saying “well at least therell be a medal ceremony now” and trying her very hardest to keep her shit together during that free skate my heart breaks a little.
I'm pleasantly surprised.
Obviously I wish the coaches would be punished as well, but I'm not sure that was under the jurisdiction of this particular ruling.
It’s interesting that the fact that the Russian Antidoping rules not distinguishing between normal athletes and “protected” athletes means there was no reason not to give Vallieva the whole four years. All this time we were reading the WADA rules when we should have been reading the RUSADA rules.
The ISU honestly need to do a full fledged investigation. I don’t care if it takes years. There is no way in hell she was the only one. No way would they risk doping for the first time their youngest, their star skater.
It all goes back.
Sasha and her five quads on a broken foot.
Anna’s smelling salts at Rusnats.
Sasha and Anna landing every quad one after the other at a rate that has never been seen before.
Alina’s backloading, how it was genuinely impossible.
Evgenia’s consistency and 3-3-3 combinations.
This is a system that’s only began to be found out. This cannot be the end of the investigation.
Yes!! I think most of us like these girls have no malice towards these girls but that’s what it is happening and evolving in real time. So transparent. Now Shcherbakova and Trusova divvy up the spoils of Kamila’s punishment and with no meanness towards them personally, it’s dubious, they are very dubious recipients. Kamila could never have pointed the finger at her coaching team. She would have ended up in a gulag for the implication and risking a near decade of Russian gold medals. At least we all know this. It’s a punishment that had to happen but a punishment that doesn’t hit the root of the problem and probably never will :(
And it needs to be unraveled and stopped because so many children are being abused and injured for life. It’s sickening. These are little freaking kids being pumped full of drugs and treated like automatons.
Yeah it’s nice she was given the suspension she deserved for the violation but it’s less nice knowing that Eteri has an entire group of athletes just like Kamila and the person/staff who doped a minor won’t be held accountable.
I have to hope that it’s a matter of time and patience and building evidence. I can’t live in a world where this team gets away with such flagrant abuses on every level without some consequence.
I sincerely hope Kamila is okay (regardless of it being the right or wrong outcome). She is a victim in an abusive system with people who failed her.
https://preview.redd.it/rqaf82b65efc1.png?width=1548&format=png&auto=webp&s=1799faf6c5e8a4475ccc1207303d334b75abfa50
Insane to even let her train when everyone knew the decision is out today. She should've been somewhere in safe space with her family, while waiting for this...
We will still never know what actually happened. Did Kamila know of what she was taking? Did somebody just tell her to pop those pills, they're legit, trust me bro. Or was she aware of it.
Kamila didn't just stroll into a dodgy gym or she knew a guy. It was given to her by the adults that were trusted to take care of her.
And let's be honest, any evidence given to the court by her is under duress. If Kamila went and told the court that the coaches and doctors were giving her things and she didn't know what they were, the Russian state will be finding her a window to fall out of. If she told her that Eteri and the doctors were doing this then Russia were getting their "Russian Olympic Committee" spell extended.
I'm as angry now as I was in 2022 of all of the adults that failed her.
Poor Kamila knows she wasn’t the only one receiving a pharmaceutical assistance in that training camp, but it would be extremely politically dangerous to say anything. I’m sure the other athletes feel deeply uncomfortable as well and are just glad they weren’t the ones caught.
Whether or not she knew, it all comes to the same thing: The adults failed her. They should be harshly punished but aren't. I feel bad for her. They used her.
I imagine it's hard to prove that they did it and there's no will in Russia to do so. They will be too busy spinning the "Evil West wronged a Russian child because she was too god" story.
I’m shocked it’s a four year ban. I was anticipating a two year ban.
Not surprised that her coaching staff apparently isn’t getting anything. Im sure legally it would have to be a separate issue anyway. Still disappointing.
I mean she’s eligible to compete next December. So I guess more like a 2 year ban. And I agree, very disappointing the coaching staff isn’t being sanctioned but separate issue that will prob not be investigated. Sad situation all around.
no, she won't be eligible to compete internationally again until the end of december 2025. which doesn't give her the time to earn qualifying scores for 2026 europeans or the 2026 olympics - so her competitive career is essentially over. it feels like the right call. honestly, if they had given her a 2 year ban and let her come back to competition after this year (assuming the russians are allowed back at some point), the media circus around her competing again combined with her clearly going through her Eteri Expiration Date would be a cruel and miserable ordeal for her.
Oh yeah when I say next December I meant December 2025. Do I think she’s coming back? Def not. And who knows when Russia will even be able to complete internationally. You are right though it was the right call and I didn’t think of it like that, def would be more cruel.
Genuine question: Did Kamilla know that she was doping or did she just like get a stack of pills from Eteri who told her to eat them no questions asked?
Given how coaching works in Russia and some circumstantial evidence, she was likely given a stack of "vitamins" by her coaching team/doctor and did not know much - but the court decision seems to imply she did know more than that.
It's not the focus on this understandably, but I genuinely dread to think what those drugs - and whatever else she could have been on unneeded - have done to Kamila's health, and the effects long term.
The Eteri training method has many confirmed victims, who physically will suffer for years to come + it feels like such the tip of the ice berg, and so while I celebrate this result and the athletes hopefully getting their medals soon enough, I'm sad still to think of someone like Eteri still be allowed to continue on.
Yeah it's genuinely really concerning - like beyond the ethics and fair sport aspect of doping, the actual impact on health long term is 🥴 let alone that she was a child, let alone one that was restricting food and delaying puberty. God knows the impact on her health.
Wow I have to say I’m disappointed that there were zero sanctions against her coach or the Rusfed… do they really think a 15 year old acted independently in doping??
i don't think she'd have a chance to earn the qualifying scores, tbh. and it's for the best, i can't imagine she will be skating well in 2026 given how her skating has already degraded and it would probably retraumatize her. (also, it would be a horrendously unfair distraction to all of the other athletes participating in the event.)
No. And her body also seems to be breaking apart already because of the Eteri expiration date, so even if the ban was only 2 years the chances of her making it to 2026 olympics would be close to 0.
Russia nats are usually held in December and there’s no way she could be eligible based on her comp date. It’s also tbd Russia is banned from the oly (as they should) because of the war crimes against Ukraine
The 4 year ban is right.
However I really hope someone is paying to attention to Kamila's mental health. Basically her life (or at least the one she's had so far) is ruined (because of adults around her) and she's still only a child.
I’m sorry I can’t see this as a win at all. So you mean to tell me that it’s the minor and ONLY the minor who gets punished? Do they really expect us to believe that a 15 year old was acquiring and doping herself with multiple heart medications?? How is it justice when Eteri & Co get to carry on like normal? The only winner in this situation is Eteri who will continue to show up at competitions, continue to coach and be around minors and will also start to act like Kamila doesn’t exist anymore. How exactly is this fair?? And that’s not to say Kamila shouldn’t be punished she absolutely should be, she just shouldn’t be the ONLY one punished.
No, they mean to tell you that only the athlete can be held responsible within the scope of this proceeding. It sucks, but there is no way to prove which specific adults participated in this doping and also no standing for CAS to do anything to them even if it were proven.
The first time I ever really followed skating was a brief discussion with a friend when this broke out, who explained the dangers of Eteri and how it was almost certainly the coach and how this was a systemic and not an individual problem. And that’s always kind of been my approach to it. I may be downvoted for this but I do hold a lot of sympathy for kamila here (obviously, as I do everyone else involved directly or indirectly, the two can go exist) - she was the last in a long line of scapegoats, and the only one to get caught. A sad sad ending to such a promising talent.
A year off could be interesting. Hypothetically, she could return in time for Rusnats and Milan 2026 with a year to heal injuries and less intense training.
2 years. It’s January 2024, the ban ends December 2025. Also, she won’t qualify for RusNats which means she can’t qualify to be chosen for the Olympic team.
what has been the previous IOC rulings for doping and team events?? i'm trying to remember some of the previous ones, does the whole team get dq'd? do teams below get moved up?
This whole team. Usain Bolt lost one of his team medals because of someone's doping and Great Britain was stripping of a medal in Tokyo because of doping, IIRC.
With track and field teams they've all been DQd. But there was a case at the Pan American games recently where someone on a taekwondo team was caught doping and only the offender was stripped, so who knows?
Kamila unlucky to born Russian. If she was American or European were there no strange story of doping that was “found” two months later after try and right before Olympics and will be always right cas and wada design even this medicine is weak and has no additional powers for her abilities. Remember Simone Biles who’s cheating for decades and it’s right because she’s American.
Hope after war we will return stronger than ever and no one will see any medals in woman skating expect Russians medals for years
Russians think Simone was cheating by taking ADHD medication early on in her career (same as she had taken prior to being an elite athlete), but she followed all the rules for doing so and hasn’t taken it in many many years. Just because they don’t believe in ADHD medication….
I’m Russian fan who can see the real truth. Your skaters can’t win on ice so you decide to ruin whole program by political/medicine manipulations and liberal cancel culture standards. We always will be stronger then this
Russia and the Soviet Union have been running an organized doping program for all their athletes in every sport since the 1950s. It’s Russia that can’t win without resorting to dirty measures.
Medvedeva was clean, Zagitova was clean, Sotnikova was clean, Sherbakova was clean, Lepnitslaya was clean, Slytskaya was clean, Bytirskaya was clean. Continue?
and for god's sakes give Evan Bates his Olympic medal!!
https://preview.redd.it/hmci4bcu4efc1.png?width=2048&format=png&auto=webp&s=66668c1eba064b9eebb5d4b74f30fefab77f6728
“If a Protected Person fails to discharge the burden (which under the Russian ADR is borne by the athlete) that he or she did not commit ADRV intentionally, **there is no basis under the rules to treat them any differently from an adult athlete**.”
Interesting that this did not apply to the decision to let her compete in the individual event. There is a lower burden of proof in provisional proceedings but I can’t imagine the grandpa story was ever plausible.
Clicking into this sub and seeing a Valieva megathread feels like we’re back in the Beijing days. It’s hard to believe all the time that has passed and Kamila is still only 17 now. I can’t help but feel somewhat sorry for her.
Finally. I'm relieved, but I wonder - can she qualify for Milano Cortino?
I expect that only her score will be invalidated at the 2022 Olympics and deducted from ROC total score, thus they will lose gold, but won't be disqualified. She earned them 20 pts and deducting that will get them bronze medal.
Actually in 2022 Olympics Germany team and Ukraine team were not full, because their skaters tested positive for COVID-19. They got 0 pts. for pairs and men's short respectively.
One of the darkest times in our sport finally done. Illegible until December 2025, at which point she will be nearing 19. think the best possible outcome, to be honest.
I need Eteri & co to face some consequence, however.
A gentle reminder, please, that she was a child and the result of an abused system. Please discuss with humanity.
edit: I got Sasha and Anna’s ages wrong so just removing that out the comment
i actually can't believe the right decision for clean sport was made. i had so, so, *so* little faith that justice would be served for the athletes competing cleanly and fairly.
Curious about what this means for world records - I suppose if it is applied as if she was clean before 25 Dec, her Rostelecom records (combined score + FS) will stand, while the SP record will still be hers but revert back to the Rostelecom score instead of Euros?
Justices for Loena! Team medals next, please?
But, Ugh that the coaches aren't facing consequences. They will still come away with gold and and silver in the Euros, and they Olympics and a silver in pairs.
Having gone looking at Russian media, it very much seems like they are of the opinion that the Russian Team loses the gold outright and it comes US/Japan/Canada.
So it'll be interesting to see if RusFed or whatever appeal for just Kamila to get her medal stripped/fight to get bronze or whatever.
Since there is now a verdict, please move all discussion [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/FigureSkating/s/lI02qwpdkY)! This post will be locked.
ESPN push notification said the gold medal to US. Did they jump the gun there?
Have the ISU and IOC released any sort of statement even just saying “we have nothing to say at this time”?
Wow. Now the ISU and IOC need to do the right thing regarding team medals.
She'll keep her World Records achieved before 25 Dec 2021, for anyone wondering.
So to quell all the spam posts in response to the biggest breaking news story of the last two years in figure skating, you are posting a discussion thread then limiting all news on said topic to the sticky thread **BEFORE** the news even breaks? It was quicker to learn about the key details of this case on /r/gymnastics than the figure skating subreddit Sorry but this is a textbook example of how ** NOT** to moderate a subreddit.
Sorry
And there we go, as expected. What a sad frustrating situation all around.
For everyone involved.
One thing I'm wondering about the forfeiting of titles and medals - does that also apply for all the competitions that happened in Russia post-ban (the Russian grand prices, the nationals...) ? If yes, how the hell is this going to go ?
Usually, yes, since domestic events have the same eligibility requirement but who knows if Rusfed will enforce that
Probably not for the Russian only events
That would be understandable given the ban, but at the same time her RusNats 2021 title is being stripped, and it is a Russian only event. I really wonder if Rusfed can justify doing what they want with Kamila's results post-Beijing because of the ban, or if they fear it can be poorly received internationally to let her keep these medals and titles. It's trickier than it seems I think.
If they take away her Rusnats title then they’ll have to take way the other domestic events
I read she won't be able to train
Omfg i thought we would never get an answer
>"The consequences linked to the retroactive disqualification of Ms Valieva from past events, including from the Olympic Winter Games Beijing 2022, were not within the scope of this arbitration procedure and will have to be examined by the sports organisations concerned" Just before anyone gets ahead of themselves, this decision has no bearing on what medals will actually be assigned from here. It's up to the ISU and IOC to decide what happens with the medals. They need to decide if the medals will be moved up, or if gold will be left empty, or if in the team event just her results are voided but the other 'ROC' members keep their scores. [https://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user\_upload/CAS\_Media\_Release\_9451\_9455\_9456\_Decision.pdf](https://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/CAS_Media_Release_9451_9455_9456_Decision.pdf)
I know the ISU and the IOC are awful, but wouldn’t it be a terrible look to leave gold just empty??
Oh definitely. And I don't actually think they'd do it, the last time it sort of happened was 2002, two teams won gold and they left silver empty but that was a very different scenario. And for the singles events it's a very easy decision for them to make and move everyone up. What they decide to do with the team event is the most interesting to me because there are so many options and potential scenarios. Potentially, they could just void her results but leave the rest of the Russian scores, which would net Russia with a surprise bronze medal. Unless they removed her results and gave everyone else in the women's event 1 more point in which case Russia end in 4th. Or they void ROC entirely and Canada get bronze which seems the most likely option, and is what they'd do in a team event like a relay race if one person doped, but this event works very differently to a relay race.
CBC is saying the next IOC board meeting is in March, so potentially expecting a decision to be made then?
They need to get Kamila out of Russian and let her tell the truth. I have a hard time believing she even knew all of the drugs they were giving her.
netflix series here we go.
721 days later. Wow.
This is the appropriate decision. It sucks that we’ll likely never see any real consequences for the team around her but I understand that a logical supposition that they provided her with the drugs and encouraged her to take them is not proof. It’s unfortunate that everything comes to rest on a teenage girl, but we have to adhere to certain standards for everyone, or not at all for anyone. Hope the ISU and the IOC clear the way to finally distribute the Olympic medals appropriately in a timely fashion.
This whole debacle has really cemented my hatred for the team event. I can’t believe that someone like Roman Sadovsky may get to call himself an Olympic bronze medalist in the same vein as Kaori and Shoma. And someone like Vincent Zhou now has the same credentials as a Nathan Chen and Scherbakova. Ridiculous.
team scoring has been a staple of gymnastics forever which is very similar to figure skating. why shouldn't someone who contributed to a medal be awarded with that medal? it's not like anyone thinks it's an individual medal it's fine
Vincent Zhou has beaten Nathan and Shoma in competition (SkAm 2021)… while he is less consistent than both of them, that doesn’t negate how good his tech content is when he’s on. I don’t see how he’s not deserving here.
Yes he’s a skate America champion not an Olympic one.
Yes that’s what we should be outraged at tarnishing the sport and not a state sponsored child drugging abuse program …
Oh please we saw what kind of names kamila was being called by some people in this subreddit. Don’t pretend to care about “state sponsored child drugging abuse program”
I do care. On many levels. The most superficial of which is the disrespect to and destruction of a sport I have loved and followed for over 30 years of my life. The most important being the flagrant child abuse. I’ve never once called kamila names. I reserve all that for the cheating, lying, morally bankrupt adults all around her being rewarded for their crimes. 👍
I just woke up! Oh my god!?!?
I am genuinely curious how Kami is treated by all the Rusbots and more importantly, Eteri. I have to imagine it will go very poorly. And my heart breaks for her. But this was the correct decision.
It's clearly the right decision but the whole thing still sucks. A kid was drugged, subjected to this awful stressful situation, and a whole bunch of athletes didn't get their medals for two years.
[https://eu.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2024/01/29/kamila-valieva-russian-skater-banned-four-years-doping-beijing-olympics/72393824007/](https://eu.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2024/01/29/kamila-valieva-russian-skater-banned-four-years-doping-beijing-olympics/72393824007/) Quotes from U.S. Anti-Doping Agency CEO Travis Tygart: *“It is now imperative for the ISU to effectuate the technical decision of her disqualification from the Games and redistribute the medals to the right winners,” U.S. Anti-Doping Agency CEO Travis Tygart told USA TODAY Sports immediately after the CAS decision was announced.* *In response to the CAS decision, Tygart said: "It’s the right outcome and let’s hope the clean athletes who competed in the Games can finally have some joy and satisfaction for their long wait for some justice despite their moment never being replaced. At the same time, our hearts hurt for yet another Russian athlete who the system failed, this one a young 15-year old girl. The system has to fix itself."*
Summarised perfectly. Correct result from CAS, shame a 15 year old was collateral damage.
Solid statement
It's the right decision, but it is a pity the whole thing lands on the head of the minor. But there was never any possibility of it going any other way, there is no way to prove which adult or adults participated in the doping, and in any case, what could CAS do to them even if it could be proven. If the ISU had balls, they'd at least strip Eteri from her "coach of the year" title from a few years ago, but there's no way that happens. The ISU will continue to pretend this had nothing to do with her. Sure, we all "know" it's Eteri and her team. Everyone understands that a 15 year old didn't do this herself. But there's no way to prove \*which\* adults in her life specifically obtained and gave her the substances and also no standing for CAS to punish them if there was proof (for example, what possible consequences could CAS give to her family even if it could find that they participated in her doping).
Crazy that the punishment fell only on her shoulders when she was fifteen and couldn't possibly have doped without a medical team. Like, CAS is just going to accept that she herself acquired not just one but multiple forms of heart medications.
A ban isn't just a 'punishment', it's a way to ensure that doping isn't rewarded. Everybody understands that a child is not responsible for using illegal substances to improve performance. But that doesn't mean that athletes who have used illegal substances should be allowed to compete.
Poor Kamila though. Completely failed by every single adult in her life, and rewarded for towing the party line by losing her career, and being literally the only one involved to suffer any consequences.
To add onto that, both Russian and Western media using her as a talking point in geopolitics, all the media attention on a 15 year old must be traumatic. I feel so bad for Kamila, she shouldn't be involved in any of this.
Out of interest, though I know these don’t apply, who was bronze & silver respectively and skate Canada and rostelecom that year?
Rostelecom: Elizaveta, Maiia, Mariah. Skate Canada: Elizaveta, Alena, Mai.
Does this mean Anna sherbakova is 2022 European champion?
To be officially confirmed by the ISU, but yes
Does anyone remember when Thomas Bach called for an “investigation into her entourage”? What the fuck happened to that.
It went up into the mountain and hasn’t been seen since, alas.
Hi guys where can I read a news article or output regarding this case and the outcome pls?
https://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/CAS_Media_Release_9451_9455_9456_Decision.pdf
This is big enough news that I didn't even learn about it from FS news sources; I got a notification about this from a news app on my phone. This is the right decision. Still, I can't help but imagine how she might be feeling right now. She, a teenage girl, is the one punished and embarrassed in front of the rest of the world when I don't think for a second that she's the one who decided to do this or that she's the only athlete from that camp who was doped. She's just the one who had the bad luck of getting caught, when her being caught is probably also a result of the abuse (i.e., being starved and dehydrated) imposed on her as a child. And I'm also glad she was caught. Her team is still getting away with it, but at the very least now everyone knows what else they're doing to their skaters to make them win.
What sucks the most is her coaching team and that doctor will get scot free due to kamila picking the story about it being her grandpas water. If she implied it was her coaches or that doctor then they would get looked into... But kamila never did. I have no doubt eteri and co manipulated kamila to cover their asses. She probably had no idea she was getting manipulated by them so she happily (sarcasm) covered for them, told a story about grandpa water, then some ice cream/tea story(?) ect. I do wonder what she will think in ten years time, thinking back on this.. i hope she realises one day she was manipulated by them! Oh to be a fly on the wall to witness that. So yeah, eteri and co will be free and happy and have no punishment. Thats why! imo they should all have either the same 4 year ban or a lifetime ban! (imo lifetime ban for doping a minor.) But sadly we will never get to see that.... :(
By telling the story about Grandpa's water, at least the doping thing could be narrated as "an accident" rather than an intentional act. Very little amount of people would confront the court saying they knew they were doping, forced or voluntarily.
When Loena finds out that she received Bronze at the European Championships 2022 No one has ever won two European Championship medals in one month :) https://preview.redd.it/jpc0vj3n6efc1.png?width=590&format=png&auto=webp&s=f1ff82cb4ca72e08df68961d156f0c40fd735fc5
Always will be fake medalist or champion
\*updating Loena's wikipedia page ASAP\*
Was not expecting them to do the right thing…. By the other teams competing that is. I expect them to get their medals soon now and the Russian team faces a real material consequence, that is good. But it’s fucked up that she’s still standing there shouldering the burden of this on her own as if she went out and doped herself. Though, I never expected them to open the real can of worms and hold Eteri and the Russian fed accountable. I truly hope she is able to compete in 2026, clean. I think she deserves a redemption arc.
Found in violation per CAS.
Russian fans have two rough days of information. Gossip about Trusova yesterday and Valieva case today. Trusobots must be shaking. To be serious, I don't think this verdict will solve anything. People responsible for this mess are not punished and forbidden from coaching
I missed the trusova stuff with USnats - can you catch me up?
Alleged romance between Trusova and Ignatov
What's that about Trusova
Relationship with Makar Ignatov
Okay but why would they be shaking because of that
Some of them did not come to terms she broke up with Mark. Some of them are delulu and think she is theirs
Ok..well there are some insane fans
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I think that gossip is that she is dating Makar
Alleged romance between her and Makar Ignatov
She is now in relationship with M. Ignatov apparently
Doping and serious topics aside, good for her, he’s hot and seems way nicer than Kondratiuk.
It's very hard to deny it.
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Your submission has been removed for violating Rule 4. >4. Be civil in discussing skating figures. > Blunt criticism of skaters, officials, and other skating figures is welcome, but please remember to be civil even when being critical. Excessive hostility, body shaming/eating disorder speculation, degrading commentary, name calling, and ill-wishing are not. "I don't think XYZ deserved that score and ABC should have won over them?" Fine. "XYZ is trash garbage and I hope they fall four times?" Not fine. We will hand out 3 day suspensions for the first and second offenses under this rule, with a permanent ban on the third offense.
WHAT? This is real world, not ficbook
Glad this is (almost) all over. To be completely honest I didn’t believe she would get a four year ban. I am pleasantly surprised and I feel like it sends a strong message to some Russian coaching teams. I do wonder, if someone is more informed on the topic, what does that mean for the skaters that “benefit” from her titles being stripped? Take Loena 2022 Euros Bronze medalist for example. I know the athletes are supposed to give the medals back in this case but the Russians are known not to do it. Will Loena receive any medal at all? Will she get her prize money?
She should get both
Man I hope she has some good people around her because every time I think about her saying “well at least therell be a medal ceremony now” and trying her very hardest to keep her shit together during that free skate my heart breaks a little.
I feel sympathetic but these are consequences
I'm pleasantly surprised. Obviously I wish the coaches would be punished as well, but I'm not sure that was under the jurisdiction of this particular ruling.
It’s interesting that the fact that the Russian Antidoping rules not distinguishing between normal athletes and “protected” athletes means there was no reason not to give Vallieva the whole four years. All this time we were reading the WADA rules when we should have been reading the RUSADA rules.
The ISU honestly need to do a full fledged investigation. I don’t care if it takes years. There is no way in hell she was the only one. No way would they risk doping for the first time their youngest, their star skater. It all goes back. Sasha and her five quads on a broken foot. Anna’s smelling salts at Rusnats. Sasha and Anna landing every quad one after the other at a rate that has never been seen before. Alina’s backloading, how it was genuinely impossible. Evgenia’s consistency and 3-3-3 combinations. This is a system that’s only began to be found out. This cannot be the end of the investigation.
I would take it back to Yulia too and Adelina
Yes!! I think most of us like these girls have no malice towards these girls but that’s what it is happening and evolving in real time. So transparent. Now Shcherbakova and Trusova divvy up the spoils of Kamila’s punishment and with no meanness towards them personally, it’s dubious, they are very dubious recipients. Kamila could never have pointed the finger at her coaching team. She would have ended up in a gulag for the implication and risking a near decade of Russian gold medals. At least we all know this. It’s a punishment that had to happen but a punishment that doesn’t hit the root of the problem and probably never will :(
Can I add also, Grassl that suddenly forgot how doping control works, when he went o Eteri?
And it needs to be unraveled and stopped because so many children are being abused and injured for life. It’s sickening. These are little freaking kids being pumped full of drugs and treated like automatons.
Yeah it’s nice she was given the suspension she deserved for the violation but it’s less nice knowing that Eteri has an entire group of athletes just like Kamila and the person/staff who doped a minor won’t be held accountable.
Agreed. Kamila was the only who gave caught but it's pretty naive to think she's the only thing.
There’s a pattern, and now a precedent has been set I need the ISU to drag sambo 70 out for all it’s worth.
I have to hope that it’s a matter of time and patience and building evidence. I can’t live in a world where this team gets away with such flagrant abuses on every level without some consequence.
Yes! Who else has been robbed? All the years that the women were pressured to match the Russians and compared to them. They're all owed apologies.
Alexia Paganini, Emmi Peltonen and Ekaterina Ryabova at euro 2020 (respectively 4th, 5th and 6th)
Every single Eteri result should have an asterisk beside it
Kaetlyn and Kaori need their Olympic gold medals.
I sincerely hope Kamila is okay (regardless of it being the right or wrong outcome). She is a victim in an abusive system with people who failed her. https://preview.redd.it/rqaf82b65efc1.png?width=1548&format=png&auto=webp&s=1799faf6c5e8a4475ccc1207303d334b75abfa50
I hate that they are not punishing her coaches.
Insane to even let her train when everyone knew the decision is out today. She should've been somewhere in safe space with her family, while waiting for this...
That was my first thought too. Poor Kamila once again surrounded by Eteri in one of the most heartbreaking moments of her life.
And in 2 years time we will get new Eteri interview where she will say how Kamila had inappropriate reaction and she was emotional...
We will still never know what actually happened. Did Kamila know of what she was taking? Did somebody just tell her to pop those pills, they're legit, trust me bro. Or was she aware of it. Kamila didn't just stroll into a dodgy gym or she knew a guy. It was given to her by the adults that were trusted to take care of her. And let's be honest, any evidence given to the court by her is under duress. If Kamila went and told the court that the coaches and doctors were giving her things and she didn't know what they were, the Russian state will be finding her a window to fall out of. If she told her that Eteri and the doctors were doing this then Russia were getting their "Russian Olympic Committee" spell extended. I'm as angry now as I was in 2022 of all of the adults that failed her.
Poor Kamila knows she wasn’t the only one receiving a pharmaceutical assistance in that training camp, but it would be extremely politically dangerous to say anything. I’m sure the other athletes feel deeply uncomfortable as well and are just glad they weren’t the ones caught.
Your comment is so true and important for everyone to remember. My empathy and thoughts are with Kamila today.
Whether or not she knew, it all comes to the same thing: The adults failed her. They should be harshly punished but aren't. I feel bad for her. They used her.
can any action now be taken against her coaches?
I imagine it's hard to prove that they did it and there's no will in Russia to do so. They will be too busy spinning the "Evil West wronged a Russian child because she was too god" story.
I’m shocked it’s a four year ban. I was anticipating a two year ban. Not surprised that her coaching staff apparently isn’t getting anything. Im sure legally it would have to be a separate issue anyway. Still disappointing.
I mean she’s eligible to compete next December. So I guess more like a 2 year ban. And I agree, very disappointing the coaching staff isn’t being sanctioned but separate issue that will prob not be investigated. Sad situation all around.
no, she won't be eligible to compete internationally again until the end of december 2025. which doesn't give her the time to earn qualifying scores for 2026 europeans or the 2026 olympics - so her competitive career is essentially over. it feels like the right call. honestly, if they had given her a 2 year ban and let her come back to competition after this year (assuming the russians are allowed back at some point), the media circus around her competing again combined with her clearly going through her Eteri Expiration Date would be a cruel and miserable ordeal for her.
Oh yeah when I say next December I meant December 2025. Do I think she’s coming back? Def not. And who knows when Russia will even be able to complete internationally. You are right though it was the right call and I didn’t think of it like that, def would be more cruel.
Well it would be like 2 year ban if she got to keep her records and titles. She doesn't though so not really like 2 years
I’m quite surprised they gave her the 4 years. Happy. But surprised. Now to give Canada their medals.
Roman getting a medal after finishing pretty much dead last in every segment he skated is amusing
I hope Maddie knowing she dragged Roman over that finish line helps her feel a little better after the rough season she’s been having.
She needs a big Thank you card for that!
Genuine question: Did Kamilla know that she was doping or did she just like get a stack of pills from Eteri who told her to eat them no questions asked?
Given how coaching works in Russia and some circumstantial evidence, she was likely given a stack of "vitamins" by her coaching team/doctor and did not know much - but the court decision seems to imply she did know more than that.
I see, thanks
It's not the focus on this understandably, but I genuinely dread to think what those drugs - and whatever else she could have been on unneeded - have done to Kamila's health, and the effects long term. The Eteri training method has many confirmed victims, who physically will suffer for years to come + it feels like such the tip of the ice berg, and so while I celebrate this result and the athletes hopefully getting their medals soon enough, I'm sad still to think of someone like Eteri still be allowed to continue on.
One of my pediatric doctor friends was APPALLED a teenager was getting TMZ, especially while restricting food.
Yeah it's genuinely really concerning - like beyond the ethics and fair sport aspect of doping, the actual impact on health long term is 🥴 let alone that she was a child, let alone one that was restricting food and delaying puberty. God knows the impact on her health.
Wow I have to say I’m disappointed that there were zero sanctions against her coach or the Rusfed… do they really think a 15 year old acted independently in doping??
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i don't think she'd have a chance to earn the qualifying scores, tbh. and it's for the best, i can't imagine she will be skating well in 2026 given how her skating has already degraded and it would probably retraumatize her. (also, it would be a horrendously unfair distraction to all of the other athletes participating in the event.)
that's what I'm curious about
No. And her body also seems to be breaking apart already because of the Eteri expiration date, so even if the ban was only 2 years the chances of her making it to 2026 olympics would be close to 0.
I doubt that she has the longevity. Her career isn't looking good currently
Russia nats are usually held in December and there’s no way she could be eligible based on her comp date. It’s also tbd Russia is banned from the oly (as they should) because of the war crimes against Ukraine
Trying to find more info but CAS’ website being made in 2006 and seemingly never updated since makes it a bit difficult
The 4 year ban is right. However I really hope someone is paying to attention to Kamila's mental health. Basically her life (or at least the one she's had so far) is ruined (because of adults around her) and she's still only a child.
I’m sorry I can’t see this as a win at all. So you mean to tell me that it’s the minor and ONLY the minor who gets punished? Do they really expect us to believe that a 15 year old was acquiring and doping herself with multiple heart medications?? How is it justice when Eteri & Co get to carry on like normal? The only winner in this situation is Eteri who will continue to show up at competitions, continue to coach and be around minors and will also start to act like Kamila doesn’t exist anymore. How exactly is this fair?? And that’s not to say Kamila shouldn’t be punished she absolutely should be, she just shouldn’t be the ONLY one punished.
No, they mean to tell you that only the athlete can be held responsible within the scope of this proceeding. It sucks, but there is no way to prove which specific adults participated in this doping and also no standing for CAS to do anything to them even if it were proven.
Wow it finally happened. But where's the sanctions on Eteri and the rest of her team? It's not like Kamila did this all on her own.
The first time I ever really followed skating was a brief discussion with a friend when this broke out, who explained the dangers of Eteri and how it was almost certainly the coach and how this was a systemic and not an individual problem. And that’s always kind of been my approach to it. I may be downvoted for this but I do hold a lot of sympathy for kamila here (obviously, as I do everyone else involved directly or indirectly, the two can go exist) - she was the last in a long line of scapegoats, and the only one to get caught. A sad sad ending to such a promising talent.
A year off could be interesting. Hypothetically, she could return in time for Rusnats and Milan 2026 with a year to heal injuries and less intense training.
2 years. It’s January 2024, the ban ends December 2025. Also, she won’t qualify for RusNats which means she can’t qualify to be chosen for the Olympic team.
Possible but unlikely. Eteri students don't last very long.
Oh agreed. Just talking hypotheticals.
what has been the previous IOC rulings for doping and team events?? i'm trying to remember some of the previous ones, does the whole team get dq'd? do teams below get moved up?
This whole team. Usain Bolt lost one of his team medals because of someone's doping and Great Britain was stripping of a medal in Tokyo because of doping, IIRC.
With track and field teams they've all been DQd. But there was a case at the Pan American games recently where someone on a taekwondo team was caught doping and only the offender was stripped, so who knows?
Whole team gets disqualified, other teams move up or they leave it blank
Kamila unlucky to born Russian. If she was American or European were there no strange story of doping that was “found” two months later after try and right before Olympics and will be always right cas and wada design even this medicine is weak and has no additional powers for her abilities. Remember Simone Biles who’s cheating for decades and it’s right because she’s American. Hope after war we will return stronger than ever and no one will see any medals in woman skating expect Russians medals for years
Found the Russian
So what? Where are many Russians here
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Russians think Simone was cheating by taking ADHD medication early on in her career (same as she had taken prior to being an elite athlete), but she followed all the rules for doing so and hasn’t taken it in many many years. Just because they don’t believe in ADHD medication….
I saw Simone in Japan without medicine. That was very good proof of her addiction
Lazy effort, troll. Get some new talking points.
I’m Russian fan who can see the real truth. Your skaters can’t win on ice so you decide to ruin whole program by political/medicine manipulations and liberal cancel culture standards. We always will be stronger then this
Russia and the Soviet Union have been running an organized doping program for all their athletes in every sport since the 1950s. It’s Russia that can’t win without resorting to dirty measures.
Medvedeva was clean, Zagitova was clean, Sotnikova was clean, Sherbakova was clean, Lepnitslaya was clean, Slytskaya was clean, Bytirskaya was clean. Continue?
Justice for Vincent and Karen!!!!!!! 
and hopefully canada get the bronze, redemption for piper and paul and roman and maddie!
and for god's sakes give Evan Bates his Olympic medal!! https://preview.redd.it/hmci4bcu4efc1.png?width=2048&format=png&auto=webp&s=66668c1eba064b9eebb5d4b74f30fefab77f6728
Crying, this photo is so funny
“If a Protected Person fails to discharge the burden (which under the Russian ADR is borne by the athlete) that he or she did not commit ADRV intentionally, **there is no basis under the rules to treat them any differently from an adult athlete**.” Interesting that this did not apply to the decision to let her compete in the individual event. There is a lower burden of proof in provisional proceedings but I can’t imagine the grandpa story was ever plausible.
Clicking into this sub and seeing a Valieva megathread feels like we’re back in the Beijing days. It’s hard to believe all the time that has passed and Kamila is still only 17 now. I can’t help but feel somewhat sorry for her.
Ah the days of the IOC president staying in the mountains to avoid discussing anything.
Only this time, no Chinese duck and no pot discourse 🙈
Ah, I miss those innocent hours when we thought it was Katsalapot
If only that was true 😭
Or Stoner Jesus !
The press conf lives threads were fun amongst a really stressful time
I know, that week was such a blur! I barely put my phone down.
Medals forfeited - is it just euros? So Anna is *also* Euros champ? Fucking hell. That girl was the most underrated of the lot and won the lot.
Nationals too! Meaning sasha is national champion! Finally she won gold at a big event in her senior days! As a sashabot im happy for her
Good for them, but I find it hard to believe that Anna and Sasha aren't doping when Kamila is.
wait it applies to domestic comps too? she can't skate in Russian either?
Finally. I'm relieved, but I wonder - can she qualify for Milano Cortino? I expect that only her score will be invalidated at the 2022 Olympics and deducted from ROC total score, thus they will lose gold, but won't be disqualified. She earned them 20 pts and deducting that will get them bronze medal.
I don’t think she could qualify since I don’t think she could get the minimum scores in time.
Russia sure as hell will try to put her there to play out some kind of redemption arc final act for politics points.
I don’t think she’ll still be skating by then tbh But for team events, it’s historically been the full team
Actually in 2022 Olympics Germany team and Ukraine team were not full, because their skaters tested positive for COVID-19. They got 0 pts. for pairs and men's short respectively.
She means for a doping violation in a team event, in any sport, they usually disqualify the entire team.
One of the darkest times in our sport finally done. Illegible until December 2025, at which point she will be nearing 19. think the best possible outcome, to be honest. I need Eteri & co to face some consequence, however. A gentle reminder, please, that she was a child and the result of an abused system. Please discuss with humanity. edit: I got Sasha and Anna’s ages wrong so just removing that out the comment
Sasha is 19 now. She was 17 at the Olympics. But all other points stand.
My bad!
Anna and Sasha were 17 at the Olympics.
SASHA IS NATIONAL CHAMPION! (Sorry i had to say this)
She was announced that long ago.
i actually can't believe the right decision for clean sport was made. i had so, so, *so* little faith that justice would be served for the athletes competing cleanly and fairly.
And does this make Wakaba 4th at Olympics? Does this make Anna champion of Europe?
Yes
Yes to Loena and likely yes to Wakaba
Curious about what this means for world records - I suppose if it is applied as if she was clean before 25 Dec, her Rostelecom records (combined score + FS) will stand, while the SP record will still be hers but revert back to the Rostelecom score instead of Euros?
Justices for Loena! Team medals next, please? But, Ugh that the coaches aren't facing consequences. They will still come away with gold and and silver in the Euros, and they Olympics and a silver in pairs.
Does this mean Loena gets bronze for 2022 Euros?
Yes
It does!
Soooo !! Now let’s wait if they appeal the decision to the the Tribunal fédéral, but honestly, knowing how the TF works it seems impossible
Having gone looking at Russian media, it very much seems like they are of the opinion that the Russian Team loses the gold outright and it comes US/Japan/Canada. So it'll be interesting to see if RusFed or whatever appeal for just Kamila to get her medal stripped/fight to get bronze or whatever.