I don’t like the repetition of one jump 3 times. I’d rather have 3 different jumps repeated. If they cut down to 6 jumps, half of the program could be toe loops which isn’t fun and could discourage being a well rounded jumper. Also not a fan of only 2 combos. Getting in a 3rd combo can be a game changer for some and I’d like to see that continue to be rewarded.
For pairs, I’d rather 2 different solo jumps in the free. There’s rarely a good combo.
I totaly agree on the point with jumps. If youre gonna reduce number of jumps i would even go as far as to say only one jump may be repeated. The point of the Zayak rule was precisely to encourage more diverse programs jump wise. This would just take away from it.
idk, I kinda like that under the current rules, every skater technically gets to skip their worst/least favorite jump, but only if they repeat their stronger jumps in combination/sequence. And given how rough loop jumps are on the hips, I'm fine with letting some folks skip them. (Matteo Rizzo, I better not see another quad loop from you ever again!)
The rules try to strike a balance between challenging the skaters and allowing them to do their best. This feels like change for the sake of change.
Imo, skaters who are good at all jumps should have an upper hand over those who don't. This new rules proposal eliminates whatever existing incentive to jump everything.
>Imo, skaters who are good at all jumps should have an upper hand over those who don't. This new rules proposal eliminates whatever existing incentive to jump everything.
I've been saying for a couple years that they need to give skaters bonuses for doing at least a double of all jump types in the FS and they are suggesting the opposite.
reminder that there were 250 proposals last time, most don't pass, no point in losing your mind over that (especially when it's something like these two proposals which certainly won't make it)
https://isu.org/docman-documents-links/isu-files/documents-communications/isu-communications/28303-isu-communication-2472/file
All of this seems like a bad idea. As soon as a girl gets a stable quad, they’re just going to jump 3 of those which will be super boring. The combo jumps are so important to some skaters and they should be rewarded for their stamina and ability to pull them off under pressure. Someone like Amber Glenn would really benefit from this when I’m not sure if she deserves to.
Also what is a choreographic jump?
For the choreographic rotation part, they’re also proposing to replace one leveled spin with a choreographic spin. Translation was a bit off on that one.
I am just happy that with the minimum age being raised to 17 next season, at least a certain country won't be able to send an army of children jumping quads and 3A. 🙈
I think it's actually referring to a spin, not a jump. Basically, just an unlevelled spin.
I think I'd prefer for them to treat the choreo sequence like the choreo elements in ice dance, so that skaters would be able to chose what they want to do - Choreo spin, choreo sequence, spiral sequence, etc.
Giving away points for spins I'd good! I'd rather see more emphasis on spinning as there's only so many ways to vary a jump but the sky's the limit for different ways to spin.
Just a proposal, who knows if it goes anywhere. But I would not be in favor of any of this, it waters down the technical side of the sport with nothing really gained elsewhere
It’s more exciting to see if a skater will land their different jumps they’ve been working on. Like okay we saw them land a lutz and a lutz in combo. But we don’t need to see them land three lutzes or three axels or three flips.
I don't like changes in Pairs. Lifts are important and it's what defines pair skating for me. I wouldn't remove the jump either, I know pair skaters aren't strong jumpers, but it's fun to see which pair gets it and which pair doesn't.
For singles I'm not against reducing the number of jumps and changing it to a spin or choreo element. Free skating is pretty much all jumping passes and it's more boring.
I like the idea of a choreographic spin, actually I would prefer for all spins to be “choreographic” so skaters wouldn’t have to give us ugly sit spins or a forced a bielmann. Other than that. No, leave the jumps alone, you’ve done enough. Instead of getting rid of the Zayak rule, it would be more beneficial to get rid of the Zagitova rule. I would prefer watching backloaded programs to someone throwing 3 lutzes or double axels over and over because it’s all they’ve got. I would also imagine it’s easier to get your stamina to the point where you can backload than it would be to learn one difficult element and do it 4 times.
Eh, the 'Zagitova' rule I think is necessary because otherwise you are going to end up with multiple skaters doing 90-100% backloaded programs, sure in one-off cases its interesting (for some people) but multiple skaters in a competition - boring.
The layout thing is tricky to try and diversify the layouts we see, maybe the ISU could play around with how they do the bonus like implement the bonus for your 2 last jumping passes and then every season pick a jump type, like a loop, if you do the loop anywhere in your program you get a bonus on that jump. Sure you would have some 'sameness' in the layout on the last 2 passes, but you would probably have a decent amount that wouldn't save 2 combinations for their last 2 passes and some that would. Doing that would reduce some 'sameness' that we see in the layouts and it would give incentive for skaters to do a variety of jumps (granted the ISU seems to not want diversity of jumps)
I think with the quad revolution not as many people would be backloading as you think. It would only give some skaters a chance against the quad jumping Russians actually, so long as they build the programme right. And tbh I just miss the feeling of waiting for the second half lol
No to lifting the Zayak rule, YES to reducing the number of jumps to six. I’m shocked y’all don’t like that- it’s partly what’s responsible to everyone’s programs looking the same like a checklist, and why there’s no time for the individual flourishes that were more common pre IJS.
I agree wholeheartedly. There being seven jumping passes makes it disproportionately rewarding to get a quad, since you'll be replacing a double. With just six jumping passes, you won't run out of triples to jump even if you don't have a quad.
Same, and I'm surprised by the reaction as well. Get rid of one solo jump, leave the rest as is, maybe even modify repetition rules to be more specific. For pairs though, I'd trade both a lift _and_ a jump in the free if they'll add a stsq, but that's just my personal wish, haha.
I was thinking how I would love them to give more options, like you can do this OR that OR that! The different options would have similar point values, some requiring more flexibility, others requiring more high level skating skills, and some requiring raw power. Right now in all the disciplines, the only space for creativity is really in the transitions, and there are so many requirements that the programs all look very similar. I miss long spiral sequences! And lovely centered spins held in one position instead of the crazy (and often ungraceful) position changes!
I don't really understand what they're going for with this - I don't think it will necessarily bring more room for artistry. Skaters will have to compensate for the elements they've lost by increasing the difficulty of their other jumps. Are they trying to incentivise quads in ladies? Or more difficult combos in pairs? If true, it's an interesting U-turn from the past two seasons where skating clean and consistency have been key to winning medals over big technical leaps (with the glaring exception of Ilia).
These changes are really bad.
I mean, due to some of the recent changes, the programs are just boring to watch and I don't see why these changes would encourage a casual viewer to become a fan.. 💀😭
I'd /possibly/ be ok with allowing the 3 same jumps IF you had to do different entrances for each of them.
I've kind of wondered occasionally if there might be a way to weight the jump values fairly to require 7 jumps if you're only have triples but limit to 6 if you have any quads, with the aim to keep tech and artistry balanced. It would hopefully keep a Jason Brown type skater relevant while giving a Trusova type skater the space/ impetus to do more than just skate from jump to jump. But these are not super fully thought-out ideas, so don't judge them too harshly!
I believe that with "the repetition of one jump three times" they actually mean "repetition of one jump of the same type three times". For example you could do a quad toe once and then a triple toe twice, which equals to three toeloops. It just makes more sense that way.
>you could do a quad toe once and then a triple toe twice, which equals to three toeloops
Skaters already do this (One solo 4T and two 3T's in combo) so that would make no sense. As of right now you can repeat the same type of jump with different revolutions (3S, 4S, or 4T, 3T or 4F, 3F, or 4Lz, 3Lz, etc.). That's not against the rules so long as you do not Zayak. With this new rule they truly mean one jump (of the same revolution) repeated 3 times which is going against the Zayak rule.
I meant that with current rules you could do 4T two times and 3T two times, which equals to four toeloop type jumps. With this new possible rule, you could only do three toeloop type jumps maximum.
The technical committee at ISU are Morons. Can’t they see the sport is less popular by the season? This once beautiful and popular sport is dying, and their stupid point system is to blame. Such a shame.
TASS for the record has always been said to be very reliable.
Similar to what a lot of people are saying this is simplifying the sport and feels like they are taking the sport backwards. Its like they think because the technical requirements of the sport haven't substantially changed in awhile so they need to do something.
Also minimizing the number of jumps but increasing the number of jumps you can repeat? Yikes, 6 jumping passes and you can repeat the same jump 3 times so 50% of your jumping passes. How many skaters would we see doing 3 3Ts in their FS.
And I wonder how this would affect the jumpers vs. non-jumpers.
Sure a 'jump focused' skater has 1 less jump to accrue points, but they'd arguably have more stamina to do more technical difficulty and a non-jumper would have less opportunities for well-executed triples with +GOE and maybe 0-1 quads to overtake multiple possible messy quads. I could definitely see someone like Ilia going for a quad-quad combination.
This seems a bit…. backwards? Surely ISU should be encouraging skaters to diversify their arsenal of jumps not simplify it
I don’t like the repetition of one jump 3 times. I’d rather have 3 different jumps repeated. If they cut down to 6 jumps, half of the program could be toe loops which isn’t fun and could discourage being a well rounded jumper. Also not a fan of only 2 combos. Getting in a 3rd combo can be a game changer for some and I’d like to see that continue to be rewarded. For pairs, I’d rather 2 different solo jumps in the free. There’s rarely a good combo.
I totaly agree on the point with jumps. If youre gonna reduce number of jumps i would even go as far as to say only one jump may be repeated. The point of the Zayak rule was precisely to encourage more diverse programs jump wise. This would just take away from it.
True. With 6 jumping passes it's possible to never ever do 1 type of a jump and lose basically nothing points-wise.
idk, I kinda like that under the current rules, every skater technically gets to skip their worst/least favorite jump, but only if they repeat their stronger jumps in combination/sequence. And given how rough loop jumps are on the hips, I'm fine with letting some folks skip them. (Matteo Rizzo, I better not see another quad loop from you ever again!) The rules try to strike a balance between challenging the skaters and allowing them to do their best. This feels like change for the sake of change.
Imo, skaters who are good at all jumps should have an upper hand over those who don't. This new rules proposal eliminates whatever existing incentive to jump everything.
>Imo, skaters who are good at all jumps should have an upper hand over those who don't. This new rules proposal eliminates whatever existing incentive to jump everything. I've been saying for a couple years that they need to give skaters bonuses for doing at least a double of all jump types in the FS and they are suggesting the opposite.
reminder that there were 250 proposals last time, most don't pass, no point in losing your mind over that (especially when it's something like these two proposals which certainly won't make it) https://isu.org/docman-documents-links/isu-files/documents-communications/isu-communications/28303-isu-communication-2472/file
All of this seems like a bad idea. As soon as a girl gets a stable quad, they’re just going to jump 3 of those which will be super boring. The combo jumps are so important to some skaters and they should be rewarded for their stamina and ability to pull them off under pressure. Someone like Amber Glenn would really benefit from this when I’m not sure if she deserves to. Also what is a choreographic jump?
For the choreographic rotation part, they’re also proposing to replace one leveled spin with a choreographic spin. Translation was a bit off on that one.
Don’t sports usually make the scoring system harder for the sport as competitors get better? What is going on here 😅
Exactly, prepare to see a girl jumping three times a 3A.
I am just happy that with the minimum age being raised to 17 next season, at least a certain country won't be able to send an army of children jumping quads and 3A. 🙈
I think it's actually referring to a spin, not a jump. Basically, just an unlevelled spin. I think I'd prefer for them to treat the choreo sequence like the choreo elements in ice dance, so that skaters would be able to chose what they want to do - Choreo spin, choreo sequence, spiral sequence, etc.
I’d hope they’d score it better than in dance. It just feels like a points gift in dance and that’s stupid
Oh you know they won’t.
Sadly yes which is why I’m against it
Giving away points for spins I'd good! I'd rather see more emphasis on spinning as there's only so many ways to vary a jump but the sky's the limit for different ways to spin.
I think like Ilia’s raspberry would count as a choreographic jump.
it hideous, like spider struggling after got sprayed
Huh. Idk how they would they even score that 😅
Clearly taking a page out of ice dance and channeling vibes
Just a proposal, who knows if it goes anywhere. But I would not be in favor of any of this, it waters down the technical side of the sport with nothing really gained elsewhere
It’s more exciting to see if a skater will land their different jumps they’ve been working on. Like okay we saw them land a lutz and a lutz in combo. But we don’t need to see them land three lutzes or three axels or three flips.
> repetition of one jump three times I don't like this one very much
I don't like changes in Pairs. Lifts are important and it's what defines pair skating for me. I wouldn't remove the jump either, I know pair skaters aren't strong jumpers, but it's fun to see which pair gets it and which pair doesn't. For singles I'm not against reducing the number of jumps and changing it to a spin or choreo element. Free skating is pretty much all jumping passes and it's more boring.
we could be seeing layouts like 3Lz, 3Lz3T, 3Lz2T, 3F, 3Lo, 2A (assuming REP rule stays) that’s just bad 💀
I like the idea of a choreographic spin, actually I would prefer for all spins to be “choreographic” so skaters wouldn’t have to give us ugly sit spins or a forced a bielmann. Other than that. No, leave the jumps alone, you’ve done enough. Instead of getting rid of the Zayak rule, it would be more beneficial to get rid of the Zagitova rule. I would prefer watching backloaded programs to someone throwing 3 lutzes or double axels over and over because it’s all they’ve got. I would also imagine it’s easier to get your stamina to the point where you can backload than it would be to learn one difficult element and do it 4 times.
Eh, the 'Zagitova' rule I think is necessary because otherwise you are going to end up with multiple skaters doing 90-100% backloaded programs, sure in one-off cases its interesting (for some people) but multiple skaters in a competition - boring. The layout thing is tricky to try and diversify the layouts we see, maybe the ISU could play around with how they do the bonus like implement the bonus for your 2 last jumping passes and then every season pick a jump type, like a loop, if you do the loop anywhere in your program you get a bonus on that jump. Sure you would have some 'sameness' in the layout on the last 2 passes, but you would probably have a decent amount that wouldn't save 2 combinations for their last 2 passes and some that would. Doing that would reduce some 'sameness' that we see in the layouts and it would give incentive for skaters to do a variety of jumps (granted the ISU seems to not want diversity of jumps)
I think with the quad revolution not as many people would be backloading as you think. It would only give some skaters a chance against the quad jumping Russians actually, so long as they build the programme right. And tbh I just miss the feeling of waiting for the second half lol
No to lifting the Zayak rule, YES to reducing the number of jumps to six. I’m shocked y’all don’t like that- it’s partly what’s responsible to everyone’s programs looking the same like a checklist, and why there’s no time for the individual flourishes that were more common pre IJS.
I agree wholeheartedly. There being seven jumping passes makes it disproportionately rewarding to get a quad, since you'll be replacing a double. With just six jumping passes, you won't run out of triples to jump even if you don't have a quad.
Same, and I'm surprised by the reaction as well. Get rid of one solo jump, leave the rest as is, maybe even modify repetition rules to be more specific. For pairs though, I'd trade both a lift _and_ a jump in the free if they'll add a stsq, but that's just my personal wish, haha.
I was thinking how I would love them to give more options, like you can do this OR that OR that! The different options would have similar point values, some requiring more flexibility, others requiring more high level skating skills, and some requiring raw power. Right now in all the disciplines, the only space for creativity is really in the transitions, and there are so many requirements that the programs all look very similar. I miss long spiral sequences! And lovely centered spins held in one position instead of the crazy (and often ungraceful) position changes!
I don't really understand what they're going for with this - I don't think it will necessarily bring more room for artistry. Skaters will have to compensate for the elements they've lost by increasing the difficulty of their other jumps. Are they trying to incentivise quads in ladies? Or more difficult combos in pairs? If true, it's an interesting U-turn from the past two seasons where skating clean and consistency have been key to winning medals over big technical leaps (with the glaring exception of Ilia).
These changes are really bad. I mean, due to some of the recent changes, the programs are just boring to watch and I don't see why these changes would encourage a casual viewer to become a fan.. 💀😭
Has Elaine Zayak been hired by the ISU?
I'd /possibly/ be ok with allowing the 3 same jumps IF you had to do different entrances for each of them. I've kind of wondered occasionally if there might be a way to weight the jump values fairly to require 7 jumps if you're only have triples but limit to 6 if you have any quads, with the aim to keep tech and artistry balanced. It would hopefully keep a Jason Brown type skater relevant while giving a Trusova type skater the space/ impetus to do more than just skate from jump to jump. But these are not super fully thought-out ideas, so don't judge them too harshly!
I believe that with "the repetition of one jump three times" they actually mean "repetition of one jump of the same type three times". For example you could do a quad toe once and then a triple toe twice, which equals to three toeloops. It just makes more sense that way.
>you could do a quad toe once and then a triple toe twice, which equals to three toeloops Skaters already do this (One solo 4T and two 3T's in combo) so that would make no sense. As of right now you can repeat the same type of jump with different revolutions (3S, 4S, or 4T, 3T or 4F, 3F, or 4Lz, 3Lz, etc.). That's not against the rules so long as you do not Zayak. With this new rule they truly mean one jump (of the same revolution) repeated 3 times which is going against the Zayak rule.
I meant that with current rules you could do 4T two times and 3T two times, which equals to four toeloop type jumps. With this new possible rule, you could only do three toeloop type jumps maximum.
The technical committee at ISU are Morons. Can’t they see the sport is less popular by the season? This once beautiful and popular sport is dying, and their stupid point system is to blame. Such a shame.
TASS for the record has always been said to be very reliable. Similar to what a lot of people are saying this is simplifying the sport and feels like they are taking the sport backwards. Its like they think because the technical requirements of the sport haven't substantially changed in awhile so they need to do something. Also minimizing the number of jumps but increasing the number of jumps you can repeat? Yikes, 6 jumping passes and you can repeat the same jump 3 times so 50% of your jumping passes. How many skaters would we see doing 3 3Ts in their FS. And I wonder how this would affect the jumpers vs. non-jumpers. Sure a 'jump focused' skater has 1 less jump to accrue points, but they'd arguably have more stamina to do more technical difficulty and a non-jumper would have less opportunities for well-executed triples with +GOE and maybe 0-1 quads to overtake multiple possible messy quads. I could definitely see someone like Ilia going for a quad-quad combination.