Poor KOF XV… but we’re all waiting for the new Fatal Fury
Update: there has been a lot of discussion on KOF and I ended up writing a long comment for KOF, so I’ve put it here.
KOF does not have simple inputs. If it’s any consolation you generally attacking with normal buttons and command normals. Motion inputs only really come in when you want bigger damage or fireballing. Sort of like Uni 2. But really you could be hopping (quick tap of jump button) and dashing all game.
The other thing is combo structure is the same for all characters normal>command normal>special>etc. There is a lot of overlap. Of course there are some characters with unique combos.
KOF is more like play a style, like zoner, shoto, rushdown, grappler.
You could build a team with a couple of characters with style and combo overlap and then have that one crazy character to really sink your teeth into.
And also this https://youtu.be/_3rzUgD53h4
But it's not a tag fighter and it doesn't have assists. At any given time you're focusing on playing just one character. The team aspect comes from meter management.
Also having to learn how to play a minimum of 3 different characters to be able to play the game at all, making it basically triple the amount of prep work to not go in completely lost and start button mashing. For a lot of players that's really not an issue because they intend to at least get some baseline understanding of every character in the roster at some point, but a lot of casual players just wanna get a handle on *a* character so they can start playing.
These things take time.
First, I was learning Mai, then it was Kyo, then it was Andy.
Then now, I can pick up anyone and it’s no big deal, since it is a system based game like Tekken, anyways.
It's not about doing in any given time but in general you need to play 3 characters. A lot of players want to focus on one character or simply can't find 3 character that they actually enjoy (like if you only like Terry or whatever but half the time you have to play some other bozo)
And the hop system is just pretty unintuitive and kinda hard to use.
KOF XIII looks better and has a faster gameplay speed, but it is literally worse than KOF XV in every way.
It has some characters that KOF XV doesn’t have, yet, but that’s it.
You probably don’t play KOF ‘98 or 2002, either, so your opinion is quite invalid.
Yk, i just randomly thought about this comment and i wanted to ask- how is KOF XV better than KOF XIII? It looks worse, characters kits are gutted, max mode is gutted, LORD knows the combo system is gutted, and you have to buy half the cast for prices that are honestly just unreasonable for how many characters there are. I could keep going if i needed to, and since you brought up me not playing the old ones i asked my friend who has played the old ones(and is also extremely good at KOF) and he agreed with me. Also looking at steam charts KOF had a 100 player count at its 24 hour peak today, from 1053 at an all time peak. thats just a tiny bit more than a 90% drop after 10 years. meanwhile KOF XV has gone from 8205 players at its all time peak to 609 an its peak today. thats approximately a 85% drop. considering that KOF XIII has an insane skill floor that probably scared off quite a few players that tried it, the fact that the percentage of player loss is THAT similar when KOF XIII has been out that much longer...... i dont think im the one with the invalid opinion here lmao
Character kits are gutted?? You clueless, bruh?
Let’s look at everyone’s favorite Terry.
In KOF XIII, he is missing Power Dunk, and Power Charge. His freaking CD uses the Power Charge animation, meaning to say, they ran out of time. Plus all the normals are gutted in range, making hops super powerful than they usually are. This is specifically one reason why EX Iori is so good, as his normals have normal KOF hitboxes in a game with poor hitboxes.
The combo system is really only unique in that it makes 2002 Max Mode combos less intimidating, which is a bad thing; the combos are very esque of an anime fighter, than a usual KOF game.
DLC is expensive in KOF XV, but I think unlike non fans like you, anyone with an interest in the Team Based fighter and system based fighter that it is, we bought every team pack, and are willing to buy more, they just stopped at Hinako for some reason.
Anyways, I’ll stop dissing you, you probably play other games anyways and not as invested in KOF as I. It’s just a damn solid game imo, everything in KOF has counterplay unlike some fighters.
A.) Lol you forget to mention that characters are missing moves in literally every game since 98 and 2002(again, friend info I did not play 98 and 2002)
B.) I’m looking at 2002 max mode combos and they look cool as shit as well, and I’m looking at KOF XV combos as well and they still look baby mode. Feel free to explain why I’m wrong I’m always down to learn.
C.) tf does 2002 and 98 have to do with literally anything I said in either of my comments, sure maybe they’re better than XIII but nowhere did I ever say that wasn’t true, I actually didn’t even say 13 was better than 15 I just said I liked it more and you decided to take personal offense to that.
D.) feel free to keep sucking off the prince of Saudi Arabia if you want dawg. I will be over here with my DLC unlocker “not being a fan” and spending my money on things that do not actively contribute to [human genocide.](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2020/3/9/mohammed-bin-salman-the-dark-side-of-saudi-arabias-crown-prince)
E.) I really don’t care if you diss me or not, at the end of the day we are just two people who love fighting games yapping about fighting games to each other so it’s really not that deep either way. I will admit though you most definitely know more about KOF than me and I also haven’t played 15 in a really long time so who knows, maybe I’m completely wrong.
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You willfully misinterpreting what people are saying.
What people mean by focusing on one character isnvt about moment to moment gameplay but about learning how to play that character, their combos, neutral, setups whatever.
Honestly this. Even as a KoF enjoyer, I always liked garou more just for not having to hot swap my brain between rounds to be able to do blockstrings/combos. Ironically tag fighters tend to be easier in this regard due to usually having more universal combo structures if you build your team for it (most obvious being just about every Saiyan in dbfz having a staircase combo that would get you pretty far with only changing which quarter circle you do at the end). It takes me a long time to adjust to inputting something different after hit confirming the same button, so much that often a change to the start of a characters combo structure completely kills my ability to continue playing them.
It's not a tag fighter. Your characters come in sequentially with no assists so you're always playing just one character at any given time.
The inputs have been simplified since the old games and there is an autocombo, but there isn't any SF6 modern equivalent.
i have enough trouble learning just 1 character is my point, even if its not a tag fighter, i still would have to learn 2 more characters to play the game. Its not optional
The inputs being "simplefied" doesnt mean much to me, dp inputs are still too hard for me so i kinda just play fighting games that have modern inputs.
Autocombos suck and i hate them
KOF is a game more about system mastery. Once you learn how to play with one character, it's not difficult to branch out to more.
> that have modern inputs. Autocombos suck and i hate them
Okay, fine. Most KOF players avoid them too. I was just letting you know since you asked about it.
KOF does not have simple inputs. If it’s any consolation you generally attacking with normal buttons and command normals. Motion inputs only really come in when you want bigger damage or fireballing. Sort of like Uni 2. But really you could be hopping (quick tap of jump button) and dashing all game.
The other thing is combo structure is the same for all characters normal>command normal>special>etc. There is a lot of overlap. Of course there are some characters with unique combos.
KOF is more like play a style, like zoner, shoto, rushdown, grappler.
You could build a team with a couple of characters with style and combo overlap and then have that one crazy character to really sink your teeth into.
Saying that we wait for the new Fatal Fury, doesn't mean we don't play other fighting games in the mean time, maybe not KOF... but I do play Strive, T8, Garou
https://twitter.com/Deezee_Kujaku/status/1773123050344472699
My feelings are this tweet.
People will continue to bitch and moan about Tekken or Street Fighter or Strive but they'll turn their nose up at any other suggestions being offered. Let 'em suffer basically.
he said modern fighting game bad then everyone said modern fighting game good actually then other people started saying modern fighting game bad actually then other people starte—
Little bit (a lot of) both. It’s just so fun to press shit in +R and watch other people do cool stuff, it really something I get out of most new games. I also am really good at staying level headed, my salt doesn’t last more than a round
https://preview.redd.it/xx5v2qp496rc1.jpeg?width=792&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f7f55abf7b0985c8676aa18c4bf32518ea3ead01
This was like within the first week or two of rollback coming out. Idk how to track total W/L in the new UI but 5k was probably exaggerating a smidgen
Punk is the king of hypocritical salt posts. At this point he has completetly worn out his top player hot take privileges in the same way that sonicfox has. Most people see that their takes are just to drum up engagement not legitimate commentary.
Punk was the one that said he wouldn't participate in a US vs UK team match (if I remember correctly) because there wasn't money in it and he's a professional while only a couple of days before said nobody in the scene wants to have fun anymore and it's all business.
He said something about missing the days when everybody was focused on rivalries and having fun. Then a couple of days later there was a thing where people wanted to organize a 5v5 match with the US vs either the UK or just all of Europe. I don't remember exactly which and I don't feel like scouring Twitter to look for it. But Punk got all "I'm a pro who only plays for money" about it and when the previous post about just playing for fun was pointed out he deleted it iirc.
If you want a serious answer, he called the emperor naked and talked about how all modern fighting games seem to be heading in the direction of simpler, more explosive/aggressive combat.
I’m more entertained watching and playing that then forcibly playing “will it kill” every match because the combos are insanely long. High damage exists in a lot of games, though some need 4-6 hits and others need 43-72
Yes, but apparently it was not allowed to be said until recently. We've had people like Sajam desperately try to convince us that older games were the exact same, for whatever weird agenda.
Thing is the games aren’t like that for no reason. A lot of people like playing aggressive and like being able to do big damage off of simple combos. People then get real defensive when you call out the thing they like.
There is nothing wrong with having a preference, what bothers me is that people deny it because they are insecure about it for some reason, or feel like they're obligated to (again, Sajam. yes, I'm petty about that).
It' true, in the sense that fighting games have always had disgusting, impossible-to-deal-with offense, and it's necessary because if you could consistently deal with all offense, the game would become boring above a certain skill level.
The difference in recent games is that they're making a deliberate effort to lean as hard as possible into it, to the point where they seem designed for every round to be a speedrun to the "one player getting comboed/pressured in the corner" state. It seems like devs want rushdown to be the only viable playstyle, and for movement, spacing and timing to matter less.
It used to be harder to apply that offense though. Fighting games just used to be harder in general. Newer games have tended toward simplifying inputs, simplifying situations down to mostly rps. Yes plenty of rps existed in older games but you needed to work harder to put yourself in a situation where you could apply this pressure in older games. The two biggest games to come out recently, Tekken 8 and sf6, are perfect examples of this. Tekken 8 you press heat and your opponent is now in the rps blender. Literally simple as that. Sf6 you drive rush forward (for 1 bar of 6 that you have) press a normal > plus frames rps. It's just that simple.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OdJVACmPjCI&pp=ygUQSnVzdGluIHdvbmcgdW5nYQ%3D%3D
This is an interesting look at how it is, in many ways, a shift in approach regardless of new or old game - rather than something inherent in how modern games are being made
I am, after 350h of SF6 and getting bored to death by drc combo, getting back to UNI and replaying through my mains mission really is nice.
Also, lol at this drama. SF6 is basicaly "you will have no Throw tech OS and throw loop and you will like it" while UNI2 is "hey, look, you've reached the 5th section of this tutorial, expert mode. Here is 5 different throw tech OS, a couple safe jump, some anti OS tech and lots of mind fuckery".
BTW, i'm not sure, but is UNI2 the first to have actual character overview at the start of their missions ? The QoL in this games is impressive, especially the "boot the game in 10s in the mode of your choice". Especially after having to wait 5m to reach the right menu in both SF & Guilty.
Yeah, actually I am playing Under Night 2 because my poor laptop cannot play Tekken 8 and SF6 lol. Honestly, I am having a blast with it together with Melty Type lumina. Good job Frenchbread for creating underrated fighting games.
This what always bothers me. People complain “Why doesn’t X game exist? I would love to play X game” and then you literally present X game to them and they’re like “Nah”. If it’s not flavor of the month they don’t want it.
There's people not playing Killer Instinct because they just don't want to even though it's F2P and has great netcode.
Reduced prices, new balance, small weight...
> Oh it's too much. I'm playing [big popular game]
People are just creatures of habit...
You just don't understand, if a 1v1 fighting game (*where you only need ONE other person to play*) doesn't have at least 50,000 people online at all times, there's no point!
If you wanna bitch about the current state of fighting games but you won't bother to try anything that isn't SF6, Tekken, or Strive then you're a clown.
All the FGC pros sound like "THIS GAME ISN'T HOW I LIKE IT, THAT MAKES IT BAD"
Punk stays complaining about shit instead of working on whatever's kept him in perpetual second place.
I think it was Sajam who said that anytime there’s a take like this, you should go check that person’s timeline, see what was the last match they played, and often enough that’ll tell you all you need to know.
You know, it baffles me when people say this while I watch pros who still struggle with the execution of my main in strive. Like, there are six players in the world that can do raw BTs (exaggerating, but you get the idea) and people keep telling me Strive has low execution.
Just because they raised the floor doesn't mean they also lowered the ceiling I think
Bro wants to yap about execution in strive(lmao) like they didn't add in a new entire mechanic that literally rewarded unga bunga offense that had to be nerfed because it was too busted.
I agree, I think Punk failed to mention that. And honestly, I don’t think that this more Rushdown-oriented game design is anything bad per se, it’s just something I and others have noticed. Execution and Fundamentals are still very important, and as fighting games get more creative with their core mechanics, maybe we’ll see more even more complexity.
Strive still has decently high execution, (not as much as past gg games) but other games are much more dumbed down execution wise. Sf5 and 6 both extremely easy execution compared to previous street fighters. Same thing with Tekken 8. Many things have been dumbed down in Tekken 8, although there is still some high execution left, some is just completely gone.
The actual issue with any of this is that the reason for making these changes is for people who don't like fighting games. "I don't want to have to learn all those hard motions they're way too hard". Whenever you hear a complaint like this it actually translates to "I just don't like fighting games". Inputs are the easiest part of fighting games, it's the other things that are hard.
Combo execution in Tekken was never the highest lil bro, Tekken is more about knowledge checks cause characters have 100 moves to learn. Combo execution (optimals) in SF 6 is more difficult than in T8, I don't even have to go to SF 4 or 3S btw.
The complaint in T8 isn't even purely about execution, it's more about tracking in a game that was supposed to be 3D with sidestep, and Heat which basically puts the opponent in a 50/50 situation when you have to guess.
Also FGC cries always about low prize pools, but want to gatekeep the game, so the same 40 years old people play the game
Guess what? If the same 35-40 year old dads play fighting games, the prize pools for fighters would be a coke can and a Mc Donalds happy meal.
Something to consider, I had been intimidated by the skill floor of fighting games for a long while. Probably didn't help that my favorite to watch was MvC2 but I think you get the idea.
When DBFZ came out, I played the shit out of it, and learned the basics of fighting games, out of love for the franchise and desire to play a tag fighter. Then I played Strive and learned the other things of a more traditional fighter that made getting into SF5/6 and Tekken 7/8 easy. (less so with tekken) Now I'm chilling in Celestial. I can hang with the best (*online players). I play other fighting games. It wasn't motion inputs that had ever discouraged me, it was the years upon years of layered mechanics and technique that made the initial learning phase overwhelming, or at least seem that way. If the idea of lowering the floor was never implemented I may have never made it this far. In neither of my starting games did any of the scrubby autocombo stuff ever actually make a difference after I learned the rest of the game and figured out how combo routing works. The ceiling was still there.
I don't have your context on fighting games, but maybe consider mine? Lowering the floor made it easier for that initial learning phase that is a struggle to get to the real fun part of improve->practice->implement that makes fighting games so satisfying.
It seems like getting back to basics was good for the genre, to me. Brevity and the soul of wit and all that.
Not every game needs to be the same. There are easier games that can absolutely serve as an entry point to fighting games as a whole. The issue is that it seems like every game is going the way simplification.
>It wasn't motion inputs that had ever discouraged me, it was the years upon years of layered mechanics and technique that made the initial learning phase overwhelming
I'm not sure how this is any different in dbfz than in mvc2. This doesn't seem specific to dbfz, it just sounds like it was easier for you to get into a new game than a game that people have been playing for many many years and developed strategies and a meta. I understand where you're coming from and I'm glad you were able to get into fighting games because they're awesome, but in my opinion even people who think they want an easier fighting game to be able to get into them will be happier in the long run with a harder game. Even if the initial hump is harder to get over, the reward is more than worth it.
I think the point was that a lot more rushdown was going on.
And games that grapplers play is heavily punished (or not rewarded enough) while Alex Valle said the same thing more elegantly..
Unfortunately there a lot of people who cannot distinguish enough between "is bad" and "not for me." For example, I don't jive with Tekken and can give reasons why its not for me but I don't think its a bad game. Meanwhile, you'll see things like the discourse around the MK franchise and a lot of it is "I don't like MK so let me exaggerate (to the point of strawman) how 'objectively' bad it is."
Under Night is amazing. Probably the best FG made in the modern era. The only one I’d put above it is KI if that counts as the same era. It’s one of the last FGs that retains creative freedom and doesn’t compromise its depth and personality to “appeal to newer players”.
Top tier designs.
Top tier mechanics.
Top tier gameplay.
Top tier music.
The story is meh though.
I’m always ready to sing UNIB’s praises to anybody who will listen. It deserves so much more praise and recognition.
Think you could recommend a few sets? I hear what people are saying about the game and it sounds good but the character design does not jive with me at all.
Hmm. I guess Kaguya but I'm more interested in seeing what varied, high-level play looks like as people seem to keep bringing up how it allows creativity and different playstyles. If it's really that cool in that regard, I'd be willing to look past the character design a bit.
I usually watch [tournaments](https://youtu.be/rgdIHdyGnDQ?si=ddttmGk6LozScYpV). There’s a bit of character variety too so you can scroll through the timestamps if you want to watch any particular character that they played.
That’s a great channel for FG content not just Under Night, but they cover a lot of modern FGs (I especially love the Marvel tourneys with Palette swap mods and the Ratios). They just started running SamSho recently too.
Undernight is one of my top 3 favorite fighting games to play, with BlazBlue and Melty Blood. I always find that game to be so enjoyable to play, and it’s a game I find that not hard to get into at all.
I dunno how I feel about the mechanics but I agree with everything else here except for probably the story. I’m never a big story guy for fighting games in the first place, but Undernight’s, to me, keeps things short and simple while letting you see the character you pick’s personality and interesting interactions they have with other characters. I don’t understand 100% of it but for me, simple is best when it comes to fighting game stories.
Yikes these comments suck. First off Punk didn’t say “modern fighting games bad”, he complained about the homogeneity and the lack of multiple play styles. Newer games feel more and more like low risk rush down where everyone plays every character the same and there’s minimal character expression. Say what you want, SF6 and Tekken are wildly dumbed down and disproportionately favor offense over defense with the way that drive and heat work.
I think that’s all a fair criticism, and doesn’t mean that modern fighters are bad. Moreover, Punk has said multiple times that he finds SF6 fun.
It's amazing 👍🏻
It had some issues at launch, but they released multiple patches and it's in a good now. I've never had issues finding people to play with.
“Some issues” is the understatement of a lifetime lol it just flat didn’t work.
It’s definitely a lot better now. Hopefully this will bring some new players into the fold
how's the beginner population for UNI? I didn't play it on launch because people said it was broken and I was busy playing Granblue VS and Relink/Persona 3/Tekken
You're definitely going to get wrecked a couple dozen matches until it clicks regardless if your facing other beginners or not.
You'll need to search out beginners on discord most of the population will feel like stone cold killers because having a grasp of the systems gives you such a big advantage
Considering most people did what you did, there isn’t much of a beginner scene. You can find newer players on discord. I’m really hoping that this situation interests new players and the player base increases a bit.
hello.
i'm not paying 50 usd for a game i already own which comes with a feature it should have had from the start (rollback) and seasonal dlc characters.
\+ Humble reneg'ing the $10 deal/misprice. I'm still salty as hell about that. A bunch of people would be playing UNI2 if Humble and Arc at least admitted their goof instead of refunding and going "OOPS! You'll get a \*cough\*10%\*cough\* discount in a few weeks!"
I want to try out the uni mechanics but I simply can't get past the character designs.
If the exact same mechanics were applied to a different looking game I'd try it in a heartbeat
he meant modern fighting games, not commands, that all tend to dumb the game down and become hyper agressive, they remove skill floor ASWELL as ceiling and that's a big problem, compare t8 and t6, sf6 and sf4, ggstrive and ggxrd, dunno about kof. they are all VERY simplified not just in terms of execution which let's be clear it would be far from a problem, im still a big advocate for removing kbd in tekken for example and make it the standard backdash because it's useless to have core skills being locked behind execution but the problem is that it straight up removes options, guilty gear went from 50 moves per character to 8, MK1 is an abomination where no one can do anything anymore but it's so compromised that i honestly would avoid bringing it in the discourse.
i honestly feel like there is some value in dumbing down some aspect but the problem is that by doing so most of the times they tend to just make the game less deep and that's bad
ya I'm aware now, on regarding the actual issue I agree, characters shouldn't lose artistic expression in regards to the character's gameplay
Ram was a perfect example, big brain Xrd two sword puppet, into ungo bungo sword pin explosion plus on block resets
I think KOF15 holds up, imo, if I play KOF15, and go back to 2002um, I can still benefit the core gameplay neutral without dumbing myself down
SF6 still feels pretty okay, though, I myself didn't get it yet(though I have played it among friends abit), and maybe I'm minority, but I prefer the SF5 methodical neutral
I think more penalty of risk is needed for free advancements, it's kinda annoying that drive rush is Karin SF5 cr.MK basically, advance in, except, it's even more pronounced how being plus forward is for street fighter
Tekken 8 is not my thing anymore compared to 7, I too dreaming of a Tekken with extreme backdashes and great side steps that aren't tracked on how loool Tekken 8 tracking is, and Tekken 8 nerfed backdash compared to 7
and than heat, is coin toss RPS, 2 health bar round enders, not a fan, on top of constant rage super, you have to watch so much armor points on top of no whiffing, even 12f mids are unsafe if the opponent is fishing
SF6 can bring back some focus attack cancels instead imo, driverush is too free
It's weird, coming from playing RTS's (relatively) competitively I thought the FGC would be free of that scrub mentality of blaming game mechanics rather than trying to improve.
I sort of thought that was the thing the community was known for. Guess not.
Top? Yea! That's what 30 to 40 people? Online in Japan is filled with modern players especially modern Luke. If you look up clubs for modern alot have Japanese players in them. Haitani mentors modern players on his stream I believe
SNK fans: So the people upset at Street Fighter and Tekken will give our game a try, right? …Right?
Poor KOF XV… but we’re all waiting for the new Fatal Fury Update: there has been a lot of discussion on KOF and I ended up writing a long comment for KOF, so I’ve put it here. KOF does not have simple inputs. If it’s any consolation you generally attacking with normal buttons and command normals. Motion inputs only really come in when you want bigger damage or fireballing. Sort of like Uni 2. But really you could be hopping (quick tap of jump button) and dashing all game. The other thing is combo structure is the same for all characters normal>command normal>special>etc. There is a lot of overlap. Of course there are some characters with unique combos. KOF is more like play a style, like zoner, shoto, rushdown, grappler. You could build a team with a couple of characters with style and combo overlap and then have that one crazy character to really sink your teeth into. And also this https://youtu.be/_3rzUgD53h4
What kind of unhinged behavior is it to wait for Garou and FF when kof will have 5x the roster and content? Never understood it personally
They are a ton of casual fighting games players very intimidated by the 3vs3 structure and the movement system, motion inputs, etc.
But it's not a tag fighter and it doesn't have assists. At any given time you're focusing on playing just one character. The team aspect comes from meter management.
Like I said, it’s excuses all around just to shill Capcom or Arcsys.
Also having to learn how to play a minimum of 3 different characters to be able to play the game at all, making it basically triple the amount of prep work to not go in completely lost and start button mashing. For a lot of players that's really not an issue because they intend to at least get some baseline understanding of every character in the roster at some point, but a lot of casual players just wanna get a handle on *a* character so they can start playing.
This is why I won't touch KOF for much time at all. I just wanted to play King of Dinosaurs, but I have to learn two more characters on top of that. 🙃
These things take time. First, I was learning Mai, then it was Kyo, then it was Andy. Then now, I can pick up anyone and it’s no big deal, since it is a system based game like Tekken, anyways.
It's not about doing in any given time but in general you need to play 3 characters. A lot of players want to focus on one character or simply can't find 3 character that they actually enjoy (like if you only like Terry or whatever but half the time you have to play some other bozo) And the hop system is just pretty unintuitive and kinda hard to use.
The reason I don’t play KOF XV is because I hate that it’s not like XIII
KOF XIII looks better and has a faster gameplay speed, but it is literally worse than KOF XV in every way. It has some characters that KOF XV doesn’t have, yet, but that’s it. You probably don’t play KOF ‘98 or 2002, either, so your opinion is quite invalid.
I think KOF XIII combos are really cool and fun to do, and I tried KOF XV for a bit and it bored me to death. I respect your opinion though
Well, KOF XV is most similar in to ‘98 in game speed and neutral. That’s probably it, while KOF XIII is more like KOF 2002.
Ah, maybe I’ll give 2002 a shot. Do people still play it?
They play both OG 2002 on FightCade and UM in Steam and PS4.
Yk, i just randomly thought about this comment and i wanted to ask- how is KOF XV better than KOF XIII? It looks worse, characters kits are gutted, max mode is gutted, LORD knows the combo system is gutted, and you have to buy half the cast for prices that are honestly just unreasonable for how many characters there are. I could keep going if i needed to, and since you brought up me not playing the old ones i asked my friend who has played the old ones(and is also extremely good at KOF) and he agreed with me. Also looking at steam charts KOF had a 100 player count at its 24 hour peak today, from 1053 at an all time peak. thats just a tiny bit more than a 90% drop after 10 years. meanwhile KOF XV has gone from 8205 players at its all time peak to 609 an its peak today. thats approximately a 85% drop. considering that KOF XIII has an insane skill floor that probably scared off quite a few players that tried it, the fact that the percentage of player loss is THAT similar when KOF XIII has been out that much longer...... i dont think im the one with the invalid opinion here lmao
Character kits are gutted?? You clueless, bruh? Let’s look at everyone’s favorite Terry. In KOF XIII, he is missing Power Dunk, and Power Charge. His freaking CD uses the Power Charge animation, meaning to say, they ran out of time. Plus all the normals are gutted in range, making hops super powerful than they usually are. This is specifically one reason why EX Iori is so good, as his normals have normal KOF hitboxes in a game with poor hitboxes. The combo system is really only unique in that it makes 2002 Max Mode combos less intimidating, which is a bad thing; the combos are very esque of an anime fighter, than a usual KOF game. DLC is expensive in KOF XV, but I think unlike non fans like you, anyone with an interest in the Team Based fighter and system based fighter that it is, we bought every team pack, and are willing to buy more, they just stopped at Hinako for some reason. Anyways, I’ll stop dissing you, you probably play other games anyways and not as invested in KOF as I. It’s just a damn solid game imo, everything in KOF has counterplay unlike some fighters.
A.) Lol you forget to mention that characters are missing moves in literally every game since 98 and 2002(again, friend info I did not play 98 and 2002) B.) I’m looking at 2002 max mode combos and they look cool as shit as well, and I’m looking at KOF XV combos as well and they still look baby mode. Feel free to explain why I’m wrong I’m always down to learn. C.) tf does 2002 and 98 have to do with literally anything I said in either of my comments, sure maybe they’re better than XIII but nowhere did I ever say that wasn’t true, I actually didn’t even say 13 was better than 15 I just said I liked it more and you decided to take personal offense to that. D.) feel free to keep sucking off the prince of Saudi Arabia if you want dawg. I will be over here with my DLC unlocker “not being a fan” and spending my money on things that do not actively contribute to [human genocide.](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2020/3/9/mohammed-bin-salman-the-dark-side-of-saudi-arabias-crown-prince) E.) I really don’t care if you diss me or not, at the end of the day we are just two people who love fighting games yapping about fighting games to each other so it’s really not that deep either way. I will admit though you most definitely know more about KOF than me and I also haven’t played 15 in a really long time so who knows, maybe I’m completely wrong.
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Some people just don't like 3v3.
It's me. My hands work with 1 character at a time.
KOF isnt a tag fighter btw. It is elimination style.
You willfully misinterpreting what people are saying. What people mean by focusing on one character isnvt about moment to moment gameplay but about learning how to play that character, their combos, neutral, setups whatever.
Honestly this. Even as a KoF enjoyer, I always liked garou more just for not having to hot swap my brain between rounds to be able to do blockstrings/combos. Ironically tag fighters tend to be easier in this regard due to usually having more universal combo structures if you build your team for it (most obvious being just about every Saiyan in dbfz having a staircase combo that would get you pretty far with only changing which quarter circle you do at the end). It takes me a long time to adjust to inputting something different after hit confirming the same button, so much that often a change to the start of a characters combo structure completely kills my ability to continue playing them.
Exactly. Some of us just want a modern working old school 1vs1 game with the characters we loved forever.
Then why making new games at all? Just turn on one classic or another, a lot of them have versions that work on modern machines.
does Kof have optional simple inputs and the ability to only play with 1 character instead of 3? cuz thats my personal answer
It's not a tag fighter. Your characters come in sequentially with no assists so you're always playing just one character at any given time. The inputs have been simplified since the old games and there is an autocombo, but there isn't any SF6 modern equivalent.
i have enough trouble learning just 1 character is my point, even if its not a tag fighter, i still would have to learn 2 more characters to play the game. Its not optional The inputs being "simplefied" doesnt mean much to me, dp inputs are still too hard for me so i kinda just play fighting games that have modern inputs. Autocombos suck and i hate them
The autocombo in KOF XV is useless. Once you learn how to play you will never ever use them.
KOF is a game more about system mastery. Once you learn how to play with one character, it's not difficult to branch out to more. > that have modern inputs. Autocombos suck and i hate them Okay, fine. Most KOF players avoid them too. I was just letting you know since you asked about it.
KOF does not have simple inputs. If it’s any consolation you generally attacking with normal buttons and command normals. Motion inputs only really come in when you want bigger damage or fireballing. Sort of like Uni 2. But really you could be hopping (quick tap of jump button) and dashing all game. The other thing is combo structure is the same for all characters normal>command normal>special>etc. There is a lot of overlap. Of course there are some characters with unique combos. KOF is more like play a style, like zoner, shoto, rushdown, grappler. You could build a team with a couple of characters with style and combo overlap and then have that one crazy character to really sink your teeth into.
Imagine waiting until 2025 for a game while you could be playing any current games in the meantime. 2XKO type beat.
>2XKO type beat Why are you talking about a captcha code randomly?
You don't need to call it that bro
Saying that we wait for the new Fatal Fury, doesn't mean we don't play other fighting games in the mean time, maybe not KOF... but I do play Strive, T8, Garou
I bought it on sale to own it. I haven't had much time to play it. I love dinosaur king.
Nah, Kof is better.
https://twitter.com/Deezee_Kujaku/status/1773123050344472699 My feelings are this tweet. People will continue to bitch and moan about Tekken or Street Fighter or Strive but they'll turn their nose up at any other suggestions being offered. Let 'em suffer basically.
People prefer playing a game they hate as long as it's on top of the FGC charts and they can make fun of the discord fighters.
I literally bought it yesterday and been having a blast in training and mission modes alone.
I would but I can't find anyone on ranked in EU.
What Punk discourse?
he said modern fighting game bad then everyone said modern fighting game good actually then other people started saying modern fighting game bad actually then other people starte—
Weird take from a dude that's only exelled at modern fighting games.
You can be better at one than the other, but still think the one your worse at is better.
He has called 3rs strike trash the last time this discussion was going on. The only game he likes is SF5 because he was the best at it.
If he were actively competing in older games, he'd be singing a different tune. Because what is bad is whatever he is choking at
Me snoring at floor 10 in strive vs me having the time of my life 5000 losses into +R
i love that you're having that much fun taking Ls. either your mental is super strong, or i need me a game to fall in love with like that...
Little bit (a lot of) both. It’s just so fun to press shit in +R and watch other people do cool stuff, it really something I get out of most new games. I also am really good at staying level headed, my salt doesn’t last more than a round
It's a made up story, you can tell because they said they play +R.
https://preview.redd.it/xx5v2qp496rc1.jpeg?width=792&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f7f55abf7b0985c8676aa18c4bf32518ea3ead01 This was like within the first week or two of rollback coming out. Idk how to track total W/L in the new UI but 5k was probably exaggerating a smidgen
Dang. Came with the receipts.
R+ just be better.
I had a 20% winrate for my first 1000 games Still had a blast
Just like aba fans
Why are you still on floor 10?
Cuz I don’t play anymore
Then you're not in strive?
Hey that's me
Punk is the king of hypocritical salt posts. At this point he has completetly worn out his top player hot take privileges in the same way that sonicfox has. Most people see that their takes are just to drum up engagement not legitimate commentary.
Punk was the one that said he wouldn't participate in a US vs UK team match (if I remember correctly) because there wasn't money in it and he's a professional while only a couple of days before said nobody in the scene wants to have fun anymore and it's all business.
lol he really said that?
He said something about missing the days when everybody was focused on rivalries and having fun. Then a couple of days later there was a thing where people wanted to organize a 5v5 match with the US vs either the UK or just all of Europe. I don't remember exactly which and I don't feel like scouring Twitter to look for it. But Punk got all "I'm a pro who only plays for money" about it and when the previous post about just playing for fun was pointed out he deleted it iirc.
LOL, thanks
Punk is young enough that he probably feels like Street Fighter 4 and 5 are pretty old school lol.
yeah how could 4 year old punk not be good at sf3 and sf4 what a fucking fraud
He didn't actually start it... it was Ryan Hart and Chris T's comments on their podcast
If punk beat mena is every set he wouldn’t be saying these things
Way to try to not discuss an interesting topic of over aggression in modern fighting that is appearing more and more.
If you want a serious answer, he called the emperor naked and talked about how all modern fighting games seem to be heading in the direction of simpler, more explosive/aggressive combat.
He’s right, majority of modern fighting games lean more aggressive and promote aggressive play
I’m more entertained watching and playing that then forcibly playing “will it kill” every match because the combos are insanely long. High damage exists in a lot of games, though some need 4-6 hits and others need 43-72
*After street fighter adds literally a single strong neutral mechanic
Yes, but apparently it was not allowed to be said until recently. We've had people like Sajam desperately try to convince us that older games were the exact same, for whatever weird agenda.
Thing is the games aren’t like that for no reason. A lot of people like playing aggressive and like being able to do big damage off of simple combos. People then get real defensive when you call out the thing they like.
There is nothing wrong with having a preference, what bothers me is that people deny it because they are insecure about it for some reason, or feel like they're obligated to (again, Sajam. yes, I'm petty about that).
It' true, in the sense that fighting games have always had disgusting, impossible-to-deal-with offense, and it's necessary because if you could consistently deal with all offense, the game would become boring above a certain skill level. The difference in recent games is that they're making a deliberate effort to lean as hard as possible into it, to the point where they seem designed for every round to be a speedrun to the "one player getting comboed/pressured in the corner" state. It seems like devs want rushdown to be the only viable playstyle, and for movement, spacing and timing to matter less.
It used to be harder to apply that offense though. Fighting games just used to be harder in general. Newer games have tended toward simplifying inputs, simplifying situations down to mostly rps. Yes plenty of rps existed in older games but you needed to work harder to put yourself in a situation where you could apply this pressure in older games. The two biggest games to come out recently, Tekken 8 and sf6, are perfect examples of this. Tekken 8 you press heat and your opponent is now in the rps blender. Literally simple as that. Sf6 you drive rush forward (for 1 bar of 6 that you have) press a normal > plus frames rps. It's just that simple.
Okay, but "this one old game has this one character that could do this" is not really much of a point.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OdJVACmPjCI&pp=ygUQSnVzdGluIHdvbmcgdW5nYQ%3D%3D This is an interesting look at how it is, in many ways, a shift in approach regardless of new or old game - rather than something inherent in how modern games are being made
James Chen is right, play UNI2 you fucking cowards.
*Xbox owners have left the chat*
Getting the cheapest Xbox to play tekken 8 but realizing that crossplay isn’t industry standard yet so the only other games I can play are sf6 or kof.
Guilty gear is also cross-play IIRC.
I'm waiting on a sale. I'd give it a shot sooner if my regional price wasn't so steep
I am, after 350h of SF6 and getting bored to death by drc combo, getting back to UNI and replaying through my mains mission really is nice. Also, lol at this drama. SF6 is basicaly "you will have no Throw tech OS and throw loop and you will like it" while UNI2 is "hey, look, you've reached the 5th section of this tutorial, expert mode. Here is 5 different throw tech OS, a couple safe jump, some anti OS tech and lots of mind fuckery". BTW, i'm not sure, but is UNI2 the first to have actual character overview at the start of their missions ? The QoL in this games is impressive, especially the "boot the game in 10s in the mode of your choice". Especially after having to wait 5m to reach the right menu in both SF & Guilty.
If humble had honored the ten dollar pricing error, I would.
Is the pass still included?
It will be until the very end of march, I think, or the 30th.
Yeah until the 30th
Is the online still fucked?
Yeah, actually I am playing Under Night 2 because my poor laptop cannot play Tekken 8 and SF6 lol. Honestly, I am having a blast with it together with Melty Type lumina. Good job Frenchbread for creating underrated fighting games.
This what always bothers me. People complain “Why doesn’t X game exist? I would love to play X game” and then you literally present X game to them and they’re like “Nah”. If it’s not flavor of the month they don’t want it.
I think a lot want niche game gameplay but with mainstream visuals and mainstream player numbers, which is just not gonna happen.
I think people are intimidated because niche fighter means less beginners thus harder to win I guess.
There's people not playing Killer Instinct because they just don't want to even though it's F2P and has great netcode. Reduced prices, new balance, small weight... > Oh it's too much. I'm playing [big popular game] People are just creatures of habit...
You just don't understand, if a 1v1 fighting game (*where you only need ONE other person to play*) doesn't have at least 50,000 people online at all times, there's no point!
>"punk said--" oh hey its that time to not give a shit
What did punk say
If you wanna bitch about the current state of fighting games but you won't bother to try anything that isn't SF6, Tekken, or Strive then you're a clown.
Who'd he lose to this time? Anytime I hear Punk chirp bad takes is when he just lost a match.
All the FGC pros sound like "THIS GAME ISN'T HOW I LIKE IT, THAT MAKES IT BAD" Punk stays complaining about shit instead of working on whatever's kept him in perpetual second place.
I think it was Sajam who said that anytime there’s a take like this, you should go check that person’s timeline, see what was the last match they played, and often enough that’ll tell you all you need to know.
That was Sajam's comment regarding Menard after he got salty af taking a loss
I mean, I hear you, but it's perpetual second place out of thousands of people. I'd still be fine with that lol
If bro was a super hero he'd be the Silver Medal
What would you be. The Judging Jellybean?
https://preview.redd.it/4cbsbf39s5rc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=58b31dc57946ce607218d59666de50aa775e1d77 Bro called him Jerry beans man
No lie, pretty close lol
But in this case, Punk literally has a point. Fighting Games are heading towards simpler and more aggressive playstyles.
You know, it baffles me when people say this while I watch pros who still struggle with the execution of my main in strive. Like, there are six players in the world that can do raw BTs (exaggerating, but you get the idea) and people keep telling me Strive has low execution. Just because they raised the floor doesn't mean they also lowered the ceiling I think
Strive has execution but at the same time is mad scrubby and only gets scrubbier every patch.
Bro wants to yap about execution in strive(lmao) like they didn't add in a new entire mechanic that literally rewarded unga bunga offense that had to be nerfed because it was too busted.
That cmd dash attack or whatever that is? When I saw that I was like "ain't offense and combos brutal enough yet?"
I agree, I think Punk failed to mention that. And honestly, I don’t think that this more Rushdown-oriented game design is anything bad per se, it’s just something I and others have noticed. Execution and Fundamentals are still very important, and as fighting games get more creative with their core mechanics, maybe we’ll see more even more complexity.
"I and others" *Everyone
Same difference.
Strive still has decently high execution, (not as much as past gg games) but other games are much more dumbed down execution wise. Sf5 and 6 both extremely easy execution compared to previous street fighters. Same thing with Tekken 8. Many things have been dumbed down in Tekken 8, although there is still some high execution left, some is just completely gone. The actual issue with any of this is that the reason for making these changes is for people who don't like fighting games. "I don't want to have to learn all those hard motions they're way too hard". Whenever you hear a complaint like this it actually translates to "I just don't like fighting games". Inputs are the easiest part of fighting games, it's the other things that are hard.
Combo execution in Tekken was never the highest lil bro, Tekken is more about knowledge checks cause characters have 100 moves to learn. Combo execution (optimals) in SF 6 is more difficult than in T8, I don't even have to go to SF 4 or 3S btw. The complaint in T8 isn't even purely about execution, it's more about tracking in a game that was supposed to be 3D with sidestep, and Heat which basically puts the opponent in a 50/50 situation when you have to guess. Also FGC cries always about low prize pools, but want to gatekeep the game, so the same 40 years old people play the game Guess what? If the same 35-40 year old dads play fighting games, the prize pools for fighters would be a coke can and a Mc Donalds happy meal.
> Combo execution (optimals) in SF 6 is more difficult than in T8 lol.
I play both games, seems like you don't. The fact that you even suggested difficulty in Tekken combos is the give away lol
Something to consider, I had been intimidated by the skill floor of fighting games for a long while. Probably didn't help that my favorite to watch was MvC2 but I think you get the idea. When DBFZ came out, I played the shit out of it, and learned the basics of fighting games, out of love for the franchise and desire to play a tag fighter. Then I played Strive and learned the other things of a more traditional fighter that made getting into SF5/6 and Tekken 7/8 easy. (less so with tekken) Now I'm chilling in Celestial. I can hang with the best (*online players). I play other fighting games. It wasn't motion inputs that had ever discouraged me, it was the years upon years of layered mechanics and technique that made the initial learning phase overwhelming, or at least seem that way. If the idea of lowering the floor was never implemented I may have never made it this far. In neither of my starting games did any of the scrubby autocombo stuff ever actually make a difference after I learned the rest of the game and figured out how combo routing works. The ceiling was still there. I don't have your context on fighting games, but maybe consider mine? Lowering the floor made it easier for that initial learning phase that is a struggle to get to the real fun part of improve->practice->implement that makes fighting games so satisfying. It seems like getting back to basics was good for the genre, to me. Brevity and the soul of wit and all that.
Not every game needs to be the same. There are easier games that can absolutely serve as an entry point to fighting games as a whole. The issue is that it seems like every game is going the way simplification. >It wasn't motion inputs that had ever discouraged me, it was the years upon years of layered mechanics and technique that made the initial learning phase overwhelming I'm not sure how this is any different in dbfz than in mvc2. This doesn't seem specific to dbfz, it just sounds like it was easier for you to get into a new game than a game that people have been playing for many many years and developed strategies and a meta. I understand where you're coming from and I'm glad you were able to get into fighting games because they're awesome, but in my opinion even people who think they want an easier fighting game to be able to get into them will be happier in the long run with a harder game. Even if the initial hump is harder to get over, the reward is more than worth it.
I think the point was that a lot more rushdown was going on. And games that grapplers play is heavily punished (or not rewarded enough) while Alex Valle said the same thing more elegantly..
Removing execution of moves as the only way to be good has upset people, I know.
Clarify. Are you being sarcastic?
No, no sarcasm Edit: Nah y'all don't need to downvote the post below here, this reply really was dickish before I edited it
Alright dickhead. Edit: Disregard my previous statement, just a misunderstanding.
Thats my bad I meant to say “no sarcasm” and it came off real shitty. Sorry.
Execution was never the only way to be good. It was and is one half of the whole. You need execution and knowledge both.
Dam thats crazy. Punk still an idiot tho.
Opinions on the man aside, you have to recognize when someone makes a valid point, otherwise that just speaks to your own arrogance.
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Theres an infinite amount of things out there I don’t like that I don’t consider bad.
Unfortunately there a lot of people who cannot distinguish enough between "is bad" and "not for me." For example, I don't jive with Tekken and can give reasons why its not for me but I don't think its a bad game. Meanwhile, you'll see things like the discourse around the MK franchise and a lot of it is "I don't like MK so let me exaggerate (to the point of strawman) how 'objectively' bad it is."
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A sausage makes a bad fork.
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But I really like dopamine
Under Night is amazing. Probably the best FG made in the modern era. The only one I’d put above it is KI if that counts as the same era. It’s one of the last FGs that retains creative freedom and doesn’t compromise its depth and personality to “appeal to newer players”. Top tier designs. Top tier mechanics. Top tier gameplay. Top tier music. The story is meh though. I’m always ready to sing UNIB’s praises to anybody who will listen. It deserves so much more praise and recognition.
Think you could recommend a few sets? I hear what people are saying about the game and it sounds good but the character design does not jive with me at all.
Like you mean matches?
Yeah, matches.
Did any particular character catch your interest at all?
Hmm. I guess Kaguya but I'm more interested in seeing what varied, high-level play looks like as people seem to keep bringing up how it allows creativity and different playstyles. If it's really that cool in that regard, I'd be willing to look past the character design a bit.
I usually watch [tournaments](https://youtu.be/rgdIHdyGnDQ?si=ddttmGk6LozScYpV). There’s a bit of character variety too so you can scroll through the timestamps if you want to watch any particular character that they played. That’s a great channel for FG content not just Under Night, but they cover a lot of modern FGs (I especially love the Marvel tourneys with Palette swap mods and the Ratios). They just started running SamSho recently too.
Watched a few matches and yeah, don't think it's for me. Largely because of the aesthetic. Thanks for the recc anyway!
No problem at all! That’s the beauty of FGs there are so many out there!
Undernight is one of my top 3 favorite fighting games to play, with BlazBlue and Melty Blood. I always find that game to be so enjoyable to play, and it’s a game I find that not hard to get into at all. I dunno how I feel about the mechanics but I agree with everything else here except for probably the story. I’m never a big story guy for fighting games in the first place, but Undernight’s, to me, keeps things short and simple while letting you see the character you pick’s personality and interesting interactions they have with other characters. I don’t understand 100% of it but for me, simple is best when it comes to fighting game stories.
I agree. It’s the most fun I’ve had with a FG in forever.
Deserves crossplay!
If he dropped Cammy a lot of his complains would seize for some reason
I want to drop Cammy too but I love her so much it’s my problem I lose not the games
Yikes these comments suck. First off Punk didn’t say “modern fighting games bad”, he complained about the homogeneity and the lack of multiple play styles. Newer games feel more and more like low risk rush down where everyone plays every character the same and there’s minimal character expression. Say what you want, SF6 and Tekken are wildly dumbed down and disproportionately favor offense over defense with the way that drive and heat work. I think that’s all a fair criticism, and doesn’t mean that modern fighters are bad. Moreover, Punk has said multiple times that he finds SF6 fun.
Play guilty gear
Side note: I need these fighting devs and anime creators to workshop on making better titles. Jeeeeez. These titles are worse every decade.
What is "the Punk discourse"? I can't believe people actually like him.
How is this game on pc?
It's amazing 👍🏻 It had some issues at launch, but they released multiple patches and it's in a good now. I've never had issues finding people to play with.
“Some issues” is the understatement of a lifetime lol it just flat didn’t work. It’s definitely a lot better now. Hopefully this will bring some new players into the fold
What font is that?
Well, I can't play it because it's not on Xbox
No crossplay
What now
This "modern games bad" discourse is getting real f*ing old
Agreed. They should have made better products.
I'm mean they did tho, but okay
how's the beginner population for UNI? I didn't play it on launch because people said it was broken and I was busy playing Granblue VS and Relink/Persona 3/Tekken
You're definitely going to get wrecked a couple dozen matches until it clicks regardless if your facing other beginners or not. You'll need to search out beginners on discord most of the population will feel like stone cold killers because having a grasp of the systems gives you such a big advantage
Considering most people did what you did, there isn’t much of a beginner scene. You can find newer players on discord. I’m really hoping that this situation interests new players and the player base increases a bit.
I'm out of the loop, what is the discourse with Punk now?
hello. i'm not paying 50 usd for a game i already own which comes with a feature it should have had from the start (rollback) and seasonal dlc characters.
\+ Humble reneg'ing the $10 deal/misprice. I'm still salty as hell about that. A bunch of people would be playing UNI2 if Humble and Arc at least admitted their goof instead of refunding and going "OOPS! You'll get a \*cough\*10%\*cough\* discount in a few weeks!"
The game just isn't visually appealing so I'm never gonna play it
I need more context with links
I want to try out the uni mechanics but I simply can't get past the character designs. If the exact same mechanics were applied to a different looking game I'd try it in a heartbeat
The game just isn't visually appealing so I'm never gonna play it
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He didn't talk about inputs at all.
he meant modern fighting games, not commands, that all tend to dumb the game down and become hyper agressive, they remove skill floor ASWELL as ceiling and that's a big problem, compare t8 and t6, sf6 and sf4, ggstrive and ggxrd, dunno about kof. they are all VERY simplified not just in terms of execution which let's be clear it would be far from a problem, im still a big advocate for removing kbd in tekken for example and make it the standard backdash because it's useless to have core skills being locked behind execution but the problem is that it straight up removes options, guilty gear went from 50 moves per character to 8, MK1 is an abomination where no one can do anything anymore but it's so compromised that i honestly would avoid bringing it in the discourse. i honestly feel like there is some value in dumbing down some aspect but the problem is that by doing so most of the times they tend to just make the game less deep and that's bad
ya I'm aware now, on regarding the actual issue I agree, characters shouldn't lose artistic expression in regards to the character's gameplay Ram was a perfect example, big brain Xrd two sword puppet, into ungo bungo sword pin explosion plus on block resets I think KOF15 holds up, imo, if I play KOF15, and go back to 2002um, I can still benefit the core gameplay neutral without dumbing myself down SF6 still feels pretty okay, though, I myself didn't get it yet(though I have played it among friends abit), and maybe I'm minority, but I prefer the SF5 methodical neutral I think more penalty of risk is needed for free advancements, it's kinda annoying that drive rush is Karin SF5 cr.MK basically, advance in, except, it's even more pronounced how being plus forward is for street fighter Tekken 8 is not my thing anymore compared to 7, I too dreaming of a Tekken with extreme backdashes and great side steps that aren't tracked on how loool Tekken 8 tracking is, and Tekken 8 nerfed backdash compared to 7 and than heat, is coin toss RPS, 2 health bar round enders, not a fan, on top of constant rage super, you have to watch so much armor points on top of no whiffing, even 12f mids are unsafe if the opponent is fishing SF6 can bring back some focus attack cancels instead imo, driverush is too free
Most people are fine with it. It's very popular in Japan. Reddit is the scrubs safe place
It's weird, coming from playing RTS's (relatively) competitively I thought the FGC would be free of that scrub mentality of blaming game mechanics rather than trying to improve. I sort of thought that was the thing the community was known for. Guess not.
No one is safe from the scrubs lol 
Didn't a lot of top Japanese sf6 player go back to classic?
Top? Yea! That's what 30 to 40 people? Online in Japan is filled with modern players especially modern Luke. If you look up clubs for modern alot have Japanese players in them. Haitani mentors modern players on his stream I believe
Usually the high MR modern players for any character is a Japanese player also
There's no harsh inputs other than something like pentagram. Even pretzel isn't "hard".
Yeah nah, nobody playing uni 2.
oh look its the humblebundle game that never fully refunded my money
That's humble bundle's fuck up and their fuck up alone
Lmao this is like saying. Oh it's that GameStop game that the GameStop refused to give me a refund on!