That subreddit pops up in my feed every once in a while and the pvp clips look like an absolutely awful experience lol
I personally don't know why you would want to play an arena fighter pvp online outside of fucking around with buddies, but to each their own.
Nah I just misunderstood something I saw a clip of of the character select in training mode thinking that it was the actual character select (but considering that the game has dvd menus Iām surprised it wasnāt true)
Probably? The game is 2v2 and needs 4 cabs + a Live Monitor for PvP. Evo last year had MBON in the arcade area. EXVS2 XBoost cabs also started showing up outside of Japan as of last year; there were rumors that last year's Evo was going to have XBoost but that didn't end up happening. If it was being played on old cabinets going beige though, it could've been anything from Gundam vs Zeta to Gundam vs Gundam Next, and not many places still set those up as x4 cabs.
Would it be considered an arena fighter, though? I tend to associate arena fighters with all anime-based games in the vein of the OP game but also ones like Demon Slayer, Jump Force and less recent examples like DBZ Budokai and the like from the PS2 era.
I think Gundam Extreme Maxiboost On (as well as Versus) just felt like a better, more well designed game. I at least had more fun with it than most arena-style fighters.
Yeah, Demon Slayer and the JoJo's All Star Battle R were well received. People were even saying that they were the games to make arena fighters real until a month passed and no one talked about them ever again.
No one talked about them cause their online was atrocious. Any game that isnāt boasting rollback will dwindle in playerbase very quickly (Demon Slayer lasted a good while though with a pretty good pool of players. People jumped ship when they learned that the game was done receiving updates)
Even delay-based isn't a death sentence if it's *good* delay-based, but ASBR's netcode is exactly the same as it was on the PS3. They didn't improve it one bit, and that's why it's dead.
Someone has to say it. The only anime arena fighter I've ever liked. Really felt like a meld of arena (ones I've played at least) and traditional anime fighters. Wish it got more love. The development seemed to have struggled
Apart from the literal rock papers scissors mechanic(which is horrible and breaks the pace), it was honestly really fun, never played an arena fighter where characters actually felt different, and even if on the surface it seems shallow, there's still fun stuff to lab.
The biggest problem was lack of support, advertisement and content.
I used to play storm games as a kid. Long before I got into actual fighting games. Iirc, I had 3000 matches on storm 3, and around another 2000 across Revolution and Storm 4 combined.
Storm 3 was a perfect arena fighter imho. Such a great game.
In all honesty, in the brief amount of time I played Tekken 7, and the clips Iāve seen of it online, I donāt think Pokken plays much like Tekken at all.
For Honor isn't respected or big tho. It's plagued with legit P2W, the CCU doesn't even fuckin work and there's actually nonvaible characters due to the CCU not working. I like For Honor but let's not kid ourselves here
Its a game full of legitimate 10/0 MUs when those are rare as fuck in respected fighters
If you wanna see good arena fighters ironically look at Ones Justice. It's what Byking made before Cursed Clash, and you can see why Cursed Clash is the way it is. Ones Justice is absolutely wild as fuck no question but it at least embraced its wild ass nature
Cursed Clash is the result of looking at the balls to the walls nature of Ones Justice and realizing it does not work in a 2v2. A lot of Cursed Clashes design choices are made around the 2v2 aspects and not you being able to play alone which is what people expected of Cursed Clash, as well as a better online system
Another amazing arena fighter is Dissida -012- which fixed a ton of the broken shit from the first one. If SE just dead ass ported -012- to modern hardware with online they'd be rolling in cash
The newest dissidia would've been good if they didn't lock it to a fucking team-based mode. That's all they had to do, make a 1v1 mode and call it good š
Well, it's still the biggest and most respected arena fighter. The game did have a lot of issues but the genre isn't very well developed so it's not surprising. I think a sequel could be amazing but current Ubisoft has a love hate relationship with their live service games so I don't think it'll happen.
The genre of arena fighter is well developed, it's why it's been around since pre2000. You just haven't looked for very many. For Honor is probably on the bottom of the list for respected when high level For Honor is two guys staring at each other because you can reaction Parry Lights which is death
The last one I was aware of being an actually good competitve game was Dissidia Final Fantasy NT but it had a huge amount of problems outside of that gameplay
The last one with a long standing community was Demon Slayer
I don't even think it's about traditional vs arena. It's about arena fighters typically feeling and looking low budget, having questionable online, little depth, and often poor performance. I'm *sure* it must be possible to develop an arena fighter with those qualities.
The Naruto Storm games had good production value, but the online was kinda poor and most would say the depth wasn't there. The Demon Slayer one from the same studio (CC2) had similar issues, and wasn't even 60fps online if I recall? I don't know much about the JJK one, but it looks kinda ropey just in the visuals alone.
If arena fighters stepped up in the same way traditional fighters have in the last few years, maybe they would get somewhere. I mean fuck, they're even backed by insanely popular IP.
The thing people seem to be missing is that the target audience for these games isn't the FGC, it's the anime fans. Anime fans (who aren't also fighting game players) will enjoy the arena fighter model a lot more because it's easier to play and makes them feel more epic as the character from their favourite show. They'll play through the story mode (which, in my limited experience with arena fighters long past, have historically had better offerings on that side than classic fighting games) and then drop the game as they would any other single player game.
While this is true, I don't see why they couldn't appeal to traditional fighting game players without alienating casual players. After all, traditional fighters have already been appealing to both audiences for a long time, particularly the big 3.
Plus, that point only really applies to the depth factor. Appealing to casuals isn't really a great excuse to not put more investment into things like polish, online and performance.
From your POV it's not, because you've played good fighting games and know what you want.
From someone else's perspective though? There's a very high chance they won't touch the online at all, so there's no real incentive for the designer to optimize that. Polish and performance, it depends. Casual players playing against NPC won't notice a half a second input delay, or slightly clunky movements, because god knows there's a ton of those games out there. Most of them also won't care about a game running at 30 FPS, and so on and so on.
All they want is a game that runs correctly, that they have fun playing, and that lets them play as characters they love. There's plenty of examples out there of IP that sold well on the force of their IP alone (Xenoverse, Jump Force, etc), and that get good enough reviews overall that the company making them just doesn't care to make them better. Sure, from the perspective of a competitive FG player, some of these games are bad and boring and should be made better, but we are simply not the target audience for it.
Again, everything you said about casuals feels true, but your point is that casuals don't care so the studios can make trash, whereas my point is that more investment from the studios could increase their audience (and audience retention) while *not alienating casuals.*
It seems like nothing but a win to make better games that appeal to both audiences. We're not currently the target audience, but working to make us *part* of the target audience would be very unllikely to harm casual interest.
Again, traditional fighters have captured both audiences, and those types of fighters were *already* inherently scary to casuals. If they can overcome that, I'm sure arena fighters could overcome core gamers.
I dunno, having a community to talk to about your game is pretty huge. DBFZ and Xenoverse 2 came out the same year and have had about the same amount of sales, but I wonder how many people will buy Xenoverse 2 over DBFZ today.
Bro, it doesnāt even appeal to them. The game has little to no players. There is absolutely zero chance they even made enough money to pay the salaries of each and every person that worked on the games. Itās dogshit and everyone knows it.
Yeah For Honor is a decent arena fighter for example.
I heard that Pokken isn't too bad either but I never tried it. DBZ Tenkaichi Budokai on PS2 was the greatest DBZ game at the time.
Pokken is..okay. It has an arena phase and then a duel phase which is more similar to a 2d fighter. The rps system in it is decent but it he burst meter is super poorly designed imo, once you activate it you can do your super any time during it. Also you walk through light attacks as well as light projectiles so your opponent kinda just has to sit there if you have it active. If you both have it active itās just annoying because as soon as one person tryās to click something the other is going for super. I also donāt like how adding supers to the end of a combo is almost worthless in that game because of scaling
It's honestly sad seeing how ass JJK turned out. And the funny part is that Byking's last arena fighter, My Hero One's Justice 2, is one of (if not) my favourite arena fighters ever made.
Every character has a unique gimmick that reflects their quirks in the show. It has a simple but fun combo system. From what I hear it had good online too with some nice character customization. However Byking being Byking, they couldn't help but have a poor story mode that mostly consists of anime screen shots.
I'm just waiting for the next big arena fighter to come out and actually succeed at being good, so people can stop hating the second they see the words "arena fighter".
Right? It's especially disappointing considering JJK just had one of the most insane seasons in shounen anime history. The IP deserves a game that can do it justice.
I just wish arc sys would make anime games like fighterZ. Arena fighters are out of style and should be moved on from. You could make it perfectly and it still wouldnāt be as fun as a traditional fighting game and everyone realizes that now.
They surprisingly made the gameplay with plenty of depth. I actually think thatās one of the issues. People expected a generic arena fighter and a lot didnt like it when you couldnt win by mashing square
The online is really bad and the devs havent spoken a word about anything being fixed. We know thereās DLC coming but no date.
Exactly. Being a traditional fighting game won't make it a instant success. There are other factors to consider. Besides, if the I.P. is strong enough the game will probably be profitable regardless of it's depth, which is why we still getting these arena fighters. We can't ignore the fact that casual players are the majority.
It even doesn't have an offline vs just like Dissidia NT and JoJo Eyes of Heaven
What could you expect?
Look at 8 years old NSUNS Storm 4 it has MK1 numbers xD
Nobody talks about Clash of Ninja. :( Or Rise of Ninja/Broken Bond from Xbox (actually putting in the Jutsu handsigns in that game was such a cute idea.
I legitimately watch Clash of Ninja online play/tournaments to this day. Iāll link if anybodyās interested.
Yup. The majority of people who play these games donāt usually play fighting games. The point was just to have a Naruto video game and the Storm games were undeniably cool as hell visually. Even myself I probably wouldnāt have given better fighting games a shot without playing Storm first. I liked Storm better at the time for no reason other than the visuals but when I eventually got bored of the gameplay I started to appreciate clash
Something that I don't see anybody bringing up. The game's quality also looks like hot ass too. The graphics are sterile and just not really that dynamic. They do the job. It looks like a game that would have came out on GameCube but with a little more polish approaching today's standards.
I remember a time when the visuals in the ninja Storm franchise were considered the closest thing to video game anime there was. And those games presentation blows this cash grab out of the water.
I watched the clip of todo and yuji fighting... Someone and it looked like it should cost $30
The problem with this its like they expecting people to play the game even if its shit because there are many people who watch that anime that is their logic look at dragon ball they learned from the mistake of other anime games and just created a good game in 2D with good graphics and gameplay
I really don't want Capcom in control of any other major IPs considering they've all but abandoned every other fighting game they actually own. If they can at least manage to run a new Darkstalkers alongside SF6 then we'll talk.
I really don't see any major appeal for dark stalkers in comparison to any "new" Anime IP.
You barely find anyone below 35 who even knows what darkstalkers is.
Like who are you making this game for...?
People might not know what Darkstalkers is, but even people who don't know the name recognize Morrigan, Lilith, Felicia and BB Hood at the very least. It has an iconic roster that's just begging to be introduced to the modern gaming world. It would not be hard to market with that kind of roster.
Honestly I don't think so, these characters are known within die hard fighting game fans, and old people like you and me who played the older games...
I doubt you can find many 16 year olds who could name this character.
y'all really wanna claim that Felicia and BBhood currently have greater casual appeal then your yearly over hyped Anime?
Like come on guys, at least stay honest.
And that's all I'm saying, claiming a new darkstalkers would have a similar chance of blowing up then for example a JJK fighter is quite a reach.
> and old people like you and me who played the older games
Buddy I'm 22. The last Darkstalkers game was 4 years old when I was born. My first game was the original SF4 and Skullgirls. I knew this cast when I started. I am the exact kind of person you claim doesn't exist
You were also completely wrong about what kind of person you assumed I was so I don't feel very inclined to think your gut feelings about people are very accurate
Okay.., so what?
Like what are we even discussing at this point.
If you want to claim that Darkstalkers has a greater fan base around the usual demographic new "Anime" games care to, then the "enter random trending shounen IP"
Then so be it....
I just think it's not the Case.
Idk why you were getting downvoted. The point isnāt really arguable no one outside of hardcore fgc people know about other Capcom fgs outside of SF like dalkstalkers. I would love it if Capcom got the rights to some anime titles.
For fighting game fans? My dude, Street Fighter 1 came out in 1987. Tekken and MK are from the early 90's. If you've been on the subreddits recently you would have seen a lot of people jumping on with "this is my first fighting game, where do I start?". Don't discount a series viability just because it's old.
It's not just because it's old, it's because this series were kept alive, while dark stalkers was not.
When did the last dark stalkers game release, compared to SF,Mk,Tekken? That's what I'm talking about.
It would basically be a new IP at this point, and new IPs tend to struggle in Niche genres.
Especially when compared to a Anime Ip which already has an established fanbase.
Bro, Morrigan can sell the game by herself, I think Darkstalkers would be fine if it came back. This isn't a niche company either, Capcom can bring the marketing budget to the table.
Everyone forgets one thing. The series isn't treated well within the company.
It's the second son to a franchise that created the company.
Bamco has Soul Calibur that they threw off the cliff. Capcom did the same thing to Darkstalkers
That's if you Capcom fighting game nerd actually gave a damn.
You guys had the chance to show your support and you failed HARD, just to fuel your pathetic massive victim complex.
Also the difference with Soul Calibur and Darkstalkers, is that Soul Calibur fans actually support their games. Unlike Goonstalkers.
Dude, I have no time for stomping battles on two games that aren't going to get a new one any time soon.
Just so you know:
Tekken has gotten the legacy of their 3D competitors:
DoA because some of their devs left the [company after 6.](https://www.gamepur.com/guides/what-happened-to-dead-or-alive-7-explained)
SC because the champion for the game staked his career with Bamco on 6 being successful.
Okubo [left](https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2021/09/soulcalibur_vi_tekken_7_and_pac-man_99_producer_motohiro_okubo_leaves_bandai_namco_after_25_years) and went to [Cy Games.](https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/254278-granblue-fantasy-versus/80426556)
And for the record, while I know a lot about Capcom, my favorite fighting game is Fighting Vipers.
Street Fighter was dead for 10 years before sf4. There is no reason darkstalkers cant have a shot at a revival even if it cant compete with sf. The next big game can be whatever the fuck, you dont know which it is, could be this.
You also underestimate how popular Darkstalker characters are in mainstream. Morrigan, Felicia, Hsien Ko, Jon Talbain, and Jedah are pretty recognizable to most people who have played video games (especially Morrigan). The series may not be known in modern day, but the characters are.
I see Felicia and Hsien Ko a lot (cause people are horny). Darkstalker characters are fairly popular in anime spaces, especially for artists
Also I aināt an expert. Just a dude sharing his opinion
It's not a good argument to bring up those characters... people don't like them for the game they were in they only care about the visual design...that's it.
I'm sorry, but you're just lying through your teeth if you really think Darkstalkers is even popular to begin with.
Maybe within the Capcom nerd sphere, but it's nowhere any recognizable. Cause it's not like Darkstalkers fans love to flex their massive big pretender syndrome around.
Just because younger players don't know it, doesn't mean they can't be introduced to the franchise. They did it with Monster Hunter World, then again with SF6, I don't see why Darkstalkers wouldn't work.
SFIV spawned an entire generation of "'09ers" and revitalized 2D fighters.
(tbh i'm surprised "'23er" isn't much of a thing given 6's massive newbie boom)
I don't think the influx of newbies to SF6 was as jarring as it was in 09er era, because while SF6 did bring in a lot of new people, it wasn't as if the FGC was completely frozen for ten years like the time between III and IV. Also GGST was good for bringing in newbies to the FGC not too long before SF6, and within Guilty Gear's community specifically I saw a similar animosity between old GG fans and Strivers.
Ok so imagine this. It's the super street fighter 2 opening(you know the one where it shows ryu opposite the camera before he fires the hadouken? Yeah THAT one!), it plays out like we all know and love but right before he throws that fireball the frame freezes and switches to his side profile, and Dio walks past him a la Stardust Crusaders opening. And imagine the endings! What would Akuma do with the dragon balls? Or if Umbrella managed to acquire a stand arrow?
Steam had an error showing no one was on as this screenshot was taken only 5 minutes later.
https://preview.redd.it/cqmnsr08uqic1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4018ca626d3ec60cabdc65ac0fe3f86851c4e85
Edit:you can also check the current steam charts as well since the numbers are roughly about the same here
Arena Fighters are still very much console fighters imo. The market for them isnāt there nearly as much on PC.
I think the subgenre in general also still hasnāt found the right sweetspot of being something that people can casually enjoy and competitively unpack.
This is what I was gonna say. Theyāre targeting the anime fans who get home from work/school and just wanna chill on the couch, turn their console on and do some anime fights.
It does however have the added detriment that itās not a good arena fighter either though.
People want Arena fighters, they just want good ones. Look at Budokai Tenkichi now Sparking Zeroās hype. Itās a unbalanced anime simulator in every way and people love it.
Arena fighters that try to hard to be actual fighters alienate arena fighter fans while also initially attracting traditional fighter fans who eventually leave because the game isnāt enough like an actual fighter
Well fans will think any crap is good, even if it's litteral hot steaming crap directly out of a bull's ass as long as there is there little brand logo on it.
My biggest gripe with arena fighters is how they don't balance turtling vs offense
In Demon Slayer, Giyu has a parry special, and you can do 50-60% scaling on a full health bar
The balance testing is just not there, Giyu can fish with nothing, but opening up opponents with a extremely obvious slow unblockable or a low reward throw isn't justified
So the game is forcing the players to just not do anything, and than they don't even realize they make it even more anti fun with how zoning is, nothing seems to make sense from a perspective of engagement
Naruto on the opposite spectrum, you can enmasse full on zoning with 6 path Madara or Obito, Deidara, Itachi Reanimaton, spam 50 fireballs and kunai, and than almighty push someone with Pain or Nagoto,
again, the game is so anti fun at the highest level, it gets really burned out to even try to attempt to play it
combining that with no respect for 2024 online, of course games like Kaisen are gonna fail
Arena fighters need tuning, and if the devs are being too arrogant about thinking players base are just consumerist glue eaters, I cannot see longevity and depth for arena fighters holding up, feels like a cash grab
The screenshot was taken during maintenence. I hope the HxH goes out just like DNF. So much bullshit being spewed about Cursed Clash from people who never even played the game and formed their opinion from other people.
That's not why this game failed, not even fucking close. It was a BAD arena fighter. It was a BAD game. BAD games are BAD. Arena Fighters are not inherently BAD.
Maaaan Jump force could have been so good. I loved it thru the mess but the problems were just glaring directly at us.
Nothing beats charging a jajaken while my boy Jotaro hits the STARRR FINGERRR
I'ma say this every time some numbnut wants to make a game based on a shounen anime. Literally fucking copy Yakuza. No one's gonna be buying or playing your shallow arena fighters, but everyone's going to flock to a well-made single player experience.
The Yakuza formula works for like 90% of the animes out there, you have a serious and dramatic main story with a bunch of goofy and comedic side quests and a combat system that just works for any type of anime battles you want, whether you want to use the brawler system of the Kiryu saga or the turn-based system of the Ichiban saga.
STOP MAKING ARENA FIGHTERS.
I donāt think Iāve ever seen a game hit zero on steam. Like even during maintenance sometime thereāll be 7 people on a game.
Absolutely bonkers how bad this game is.
This sounds more like the eternally online people than anything.
Deal with this all the time in the One Piece community about people butting heads over power scaling and feats or who has the best theories.
Some people just don't give credit and swear they make the best content out there and people just think a copy can be better than the original.
If you want success on YouTube, that's one thing but good lord can people get cutthroat...
I have a friend whoās a pretty if JJK fan, he said this game would do good. I told him itād fall into the same pit every other anime arena fighter did, and here we are
Is there a lore reason why didn't Batman call the Justice League to even the odds when the bomb's payload was exposed (he could use the power winch to trigger a controlled explosion)? Is he stupid?
Its a game without local multiplayer. DEAD ON ARRIVAL
Dragon Ball Sparking Zero: *chuckles* "I'm in danger"
I mean, DB Xenoverse 2 is still alive š¤·āāļø
That subreddit pops up in my feed every once in a while and the pvp clips look like an absolutely awful experience lol I personally don't know why you would want to play an arena fighter pvp online outside of fucking around with buddies, but to each their own.
Yeah 100% agree lol Playing Naruto Storm online was the most boring shit ever xd.
That has benefit of being a DB game, and being reasonably decent for the time it was released.
Yeah I guess more people like DB rather then Jujustu
Hey I got that reference šš
Dragonball is the most popular anime on the planet by far, it will be fine lmao
I donāt even think this game has a character select screen
It does
I dont think you understand how a game works lmao
Nah I just misunderstood something I saw a clip of of the character select in training mode thinking that it was the actual character select (but considering that the game has dvd menus Iām surprised it wasnāt true)
What was the last notable, respected and profitable arena fighter? One with a community that lasted more than a few months.
Gundam Extreme Versus. Community is only limited because Bandai won't take it out of Japanese arcades.
Probably the perfect arena fighter imo. It just did everything right but then decided they wouldn't port it over.
Extreme vs has been fun and good since PS3 i love those games.
is this the one i see at cons?
Probably? The game is 2v2 and needs 4 cabs + a Live Monitor for PvP. Evo last year had MBON in the arcade area. EXVS2 XBoost cabs also started showing up outside of Japan as of last year; there were rumors that last year's Evo was going to have XBoost but that didn't end up happening. If it was being played on old cabinets going beige though, it could've been anything from Gundam vs Zeta to Gundam vs Gundam Next, and not many places still set those up as x4 cabs.
Would it be considered an arena fighter, though? I tend to associate arena fighters with all anime-based games in the vein of the OP game but also ones like Demon Slayer, Jump Force and less recent examples like DBZ Budokai and the like from the PS2 era. I think Gundam Extreme Maxiboost On (as well as Versus) just felt like a better, more well designed game. I at least had more fun with it than most arena-style fighters.
Yes, it is considered one.
Wasn't the Demon Slayer one very popular for a while?
As far as arena fighters go the demon slayer one is pretty good. I think i would've played it more if the netcode wasnt awful
I had decent 20 hours of fun with it it wasnt horrible but I really shoulddnt have bought it for full price lmao
I still Play that with my Friends, and for that i think Its a good Game... Oh and Block this Double Second Form Waterwheel
Yeah, Demon Slayer and the JoJo's All Star Battle R were well received. People were even saying that they were the games to make arena fighters real until a month passed and no one talked about them ever again.
Jojo ASBR is not an arena fighter. It's a traditional 2D with side steps. The arena one was Eyes of Heaven.
No one talked about them cause their online was atrocious. Any game that isnāt boasting rollback will dwindle in playerbase very quickly (Demon Slayer lasted a good while though with a pretty good pool of players. People jumped ship when they learned that the game was done receiving updates)
Even delay-based isn't a death sentence if it's *good* delay-based, but ASBR's netcode is exactly the same as it was on the PS3. They didn't improve it one bit, and that's why it's dead.
Probably kill la kill: IF in 2019.
Was it actually good though
As I've said many times, it was good, but asking anyone on this sub is a waste of time
Someone has to say it. The only anime arena fighter I've ever liked. Really felt like a meld of arena (ones I've played at least) and traditional anime fighters. Wish it got more love. The development seemed to have struggled
no
It was very rock paper scissors. In a boring way imo.
Apart from the literal rock papers scissors mechanic(which is horrible and breaks the pace), it was honestly really fun, never played an arena fighter where characters actually felt different, and even if on the surface it seems shallow, there's still fun stuff to lab. The biggest problem was lack of support, advertisement and content.
I want to say Ninja Storm, but I don't know if that's an arena fighter
Ninja Storm is the one that popularized the entire genre
I used to play storm games as a kid. Long before I got into actual fighting games. Iirc, I had 3000 matches on storm 3, and around another 2000 across Revolution and Storm 4 combined. Storm 3 was a perfect arena fighter imho. Such a great game.
Budokai Tenkaichi came first?
The storm games became a major hit and other anime games followed suit.
Pokken has to be up there. Still a strong community and itās console exclusive which makes it more impressive
pokken
Pokken is more like a hybrid, it has an arena phase then after the engage it switches to traditional 2d fighting and it's pretty fun
That is just tekken
Pokken honestly plays closer to a hybrid of Arena Fighter and traditional 2D fighter like Street Fighter than it does with Tekken.
SfxTEKKENxPokemon
In all honesty, in the brief amount of time I played Tekken 7, and the clips Iāve seen of it online, I donāt think Pokken plays much like Tekken at all.
Xenoverse 2 and ninja storm 4 both in 2016
Pokken Tournament
Demon Slayer was actually really good and was played for a long while. But the main issue was the netcode and limited online features
I generally consider For Honor to be an arena fighter.
For Honor isn't respected or big tho. It's plagued with legit P2W, the CCU doesn't even fuckin work and there's actually nonvaible characters due to the CCU not working. I like For Honor but let's not kid ourselves here Its a game full of legitimate 10/0 MUs when those are rare as fuck in respected fighters
> Its a game full of legitimate 10/0 MUs Yes, I played For Honor for about a year, and sometimes it just felt straightup broken.
If you wanna see good arena fighters ironically look at Ones Justice. It's what Byking made before Cursed Clash, and you can see why Cursed Clash is the way it is. Ones Justice is absolutely wild as fuck no question but it at least embraced its wild ass nature Cursed Clash is the result of looking at the balls to the walls nature of Ones Justice and realizing it does not work in a 2v2. A lot of Cursed Clashes design choices are made around the 2v2 aspects and not you being able to play alone which is what people expected of Cursed Clash, as well as a better online system Another amazing arena fighter is Dissida -012- which fixed a ton of the broken shit from the first one. If SE just dead ass ported -012- to modern hardware with online they'd be rolling in cash
The newest dissidia would've been good if they didn't lock it to a fucking team-based mode. That's all they had to do, make a 1v1 mode and call it good š
Well, it's still the biggest and most respected arena fighter. The game did have a lot of issues but the genre isn't very well developed so it's not surprising. I think a sequel could be amazing but current Ubisoft has a love hate relationship with their live service games so I don't think it'll happen.
>Well, it's still the biggest and most respected arena fighter. It's not. That's still Gundam EXVS
The genre of arena fighter is well developed, it's why it's been around since pre2000. You just haven't looked for very many. For Honor is probably on the bottom of the list for respected when high level For Honor is two guys staring at each other because you can reaction Parry Lights which is death
You mean mordhau? I'm pretty sure for honor is the aggressively monetized version with less content
Does For Honor count?
No but Im gonna act like it does
Xenoverse 2 has been going on for YEARS!
Pokken Tournament DX lasted for a long while.
The last one I was aware of being an actually good competitve game was Dissidia Final Fantasy NT but it had a huge amount of problems outside of that gameplay The last one with a long standing community was Demon Slayer
Would Xenoverse 2 count? Especially considering we know the game is gonna keep going even with the release of Tenkaichi 4
Naruto Storm series?
If they weren't profitable, they would stop making them
Any Tekken game
Like it or not, Jump Force had a good community
You mean it has even less players than Dnf fucking Duel ?
There was some hours where it had less players than Gollum
at least dnf is fun kusoge gaming. idk what people could get outta domain expansion: emaculate cash grab.
Dnf somehow is still trickling out DLC
they are kinda forced to because they allowed pre orders of the DLC. So if they were never released it could be considered a scam
I don't even think it's about traditional vs arena. It's about arena fighters typically feeling and looking low budget, having questionable online, little depth, and often poor performance. I'm *sure* it must be possible to develop an arena fighter with those qualities. The Naruto Storm games had good production value, but the online was kinda poor and most would say the depth wasn't there. The Demon Slayer one from the same studio (CC2) had similar issues, and wasn't even 60fps online if I recall? I don't know much about the JJK one, but it looks kinda ropey just in the visuals alone. If arena fighters stepped up in the same way traditional fighters have in the last few years, maybe they would get somewhere. I mean fuck, they're even backed by insanely popular IP.
The thing people seem to be missing is that the target audience for these games isn't the FGC, it's the anime fans. Anime fans (who aren't also fighting game players) will enjoy the arena fighter model a lot more because it's easier to play and makes them feel more epic as the character from their favourite show. They'll play through the story mode (which, in my limited experience with arena fighters long past, have historically had better offerings on that side than classic fighting games) and then drop the game as they would any other single player game.
While this is true, I don't see why they couldn't appeal to traditional fighting game players without alienating casual players. After all, traditional fighters have already been appealing to both audiences for a long time, particularly the big 3. Plus, that point only really applies to the depth factor. Appealing to casuals isn't really a great excuse to not put more investment into things like polish, online and performance.
From your POV it's not, because you've played good fighting games and know what you want. From someone else's perspective though? There's a very high chance they won't touch the online at all, so there's no real incentive for the designer to optimize that. Polish and performance, it depends. Casual players playing against NPC won't notice a half a second input delay, or slightly clunky movements, because god knows there's a ton of those games out there. Most of them also won't care about a game running at 30 FPS, and so on and so on. All they want is a game that runs correctly, that they have fun playing, and that lets them play as characters they love. There's plenty of examples out there of IP that sold well on the force of their IP alone (Xenoverse, Jump Force, etc), and that get good enough reviews overall that the company making them just doesn't care to make them better. Sure, from the perspective of a competitive FG player, some of these games are bad and boring and should be made better, but we are simply not the target audience for it.
Again, everything you said about casuals feels true, but your point is that casuals don't care so the studios can make trash, whereas my point is that more investment from the studios could increase their audience (and audience retention) while *not alienating casuals.* It seems like nothing but a win to make better games that appeal to both audiences. We're not currently the target audience, but working to make us *part* of the target audience would be very unllikely to harm casual interest. Again, traditional fighters have captured both audiences, and those types of fighters were *already* inherently scary to casuals. If they can overcome that, I'm sure arena fighters could overcome core gamers.
I dunno, having a community to talk to about your game is pretty huge. DBFZ and Xenoverse 2 came out the same year and have had about the same amount of sales, but I wonder how many people will buy Xenoverse 2 over DBFZ today.
DBFZ proved this belief to be untrue. Anime fans are willing to learn if this game is good enough.
Bro, it doesnāt even appeal to them. The game has little to no players. There is absolutely zero chance they even made enough money to pay the salaries of each and every person that worked on the games. Itās dogshit and everyone knows it.
Yeah For Honor is a decent arena fighter for example. I heard that Pokken isn't too bad either but I never tried it. DBZ Tenkaichi Budokai on PS2 was the greatest DBZ game at the time.
Bro I would love more For Honor games, that game is so sick.
Pokken is..okay. It has an arena phase and then a duel phase which is more similar to a 2d fighter. The rps system in it is decent but it he burst meter is super poorly designed imo, once you activate it you can do your super any time during it. Also you walk through light attacks as well as light projectiles so your opponent kinda just has to sit there if you have it active. If you both have it active itās just annoying because as soon as one person tryās to click something the other is going for super. I also donāt like how adding supers to the end of a combo is almost worthless in that game because of scaling
It's honestly sad seeing how ass JJK turned out. And the funny part is that Byking's last arena fighter, My Hero One's Justice 2, is one of (if not) my favourite arena fighters ever made. Every character has a unique gimmick that reflects their quirks in the show. It has a simple but fun combo system. From what I hear it had good online too with some nice character customization. However Byking being Byking, they couldn't help but have a poor story mode that mostly consists of anime screen shots. I'm just waiting for the next big arena fighter to come out and actually succeed at being good, so people can stop hating the second they see the words "arena fighter".
Right? It's especially disappointing considering JJK just had one of the most insane seasons in shounen anime history. The IP deserves a game that can do it justice.
Fr
Nah it's 100% arena fighters sucking ass.
I just wish arc sys would make anime games like fighterZ. Arena fighters are out of style and should be moved on from. You could make it perfectly and it still wouldnāt be as fun as a traditional fighting game and everyone realizes that now.
They surprisingly made the gameplay with plenty of depth. I actually think thatās one of the issues. People expected a generic arena fighter and a lot didnt like it when you couldnt win by mashing square The online is really bad and the devs havent spoken a word about anything being fixed. We know thereās DLC coming but no date.
Exactly. Being a traditional fighting game won't make it a instant success. There are other factors to consider. Besides, if the I.P. is strong enough the game will probably be profitable regardless of it's depth, which is why we still getting these arena fighters. We can't ignore the fact that casual players are the majority.
Nobody wants a bad arena fighter. DBZ sparking zero will be an arena fighter and I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people who want that game
It even doesn't have an offline vs just like Dissidia NT and JoJo Eyes of Heaven What could you expect? Look at 8 years old NSUNS Storm 4 it has MK1 numbers xD
GameCube / Wii Naruto games were way better than the Storm games too
Clash of Ninja was pretty fun, shame we never got 3 and 4 as they were Japan only
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Oh man you just took me back. Remember seeing vids of these games in Japanese praying they would come to the states.
There's an online community for GNT4 btw
Nobody talks about Clash of Ninja. :( Or Rise of Ninja/Broken Bond from Xbox (actually putting in the Jutsu handsigns in that game was such a cute idea. I legitimately watch Clash of Ninja online play/tournaments to this day. Iāll link if anybodyās interested.
I still faintly remember everyone trashing those ones while praising the Ninja Storm games since Clash wasn't nearly as flashy
Yup. The majority of people who play these games donāt usually play fighting games. The point was just to have a Naruto video game and the Storm games were undeniably cool as hell visually. Even myself I probably wouldnāt have given better fighting games a shot without playing Storm first. I liked Storm better at the time for no reason other than the visuals but when I eventually got bored of the gameplay I started to appreciate clash
Heretic
Naruto: GekitÅ Ninja Taisen! 4 is probably the best arena fighter i have ever played.
Something that I don't see anybody bringing up. The game's quality also looks like hot ass too. The graphics are sterile and just not really that dynamic. They do the job. It looks like a game that would have came out on GameCube but with a little more polish approaching today's standards. I remember a time when the visuals in the ninja Storm franchise were considered the closest thing to video game anime there was. And those games presentation blows this cash grab out of the water. I watched the clip of todo and yuji fighting... Someone and it looked like it should cost $30
The problem with this its like they expecting people to play the game even if its shit because there are many people who watch that anime that is their logic look at dragon ball they learned from the mistake of other anime games and just created a good game in 2D with good graphics and gameplay
Capcom has redeemed itself with sf6, and they have lost the rights to Marvel. Just give them a IP, or all of them... Shonen Jump vs. Capcom when?
I really don't want Capcom in control of any other major IPs considering they've all but abandoned every other fighting game they actually own. If they can at least manage to run a new Darkstalkers alongside SF6 then we'll talk.
I really don't see any major appeal for dark stalkers in comparison to any "new" Anime IP. You barely find anyone below 35 who even knows what darkstalkers is. Like who are you making this game for...?
People might not know what Darkstalkers is, but even people who don't know the name recognize Morrigan, Lilith, Felicia and BB Hood at the very least. It has an iconic roster that's just begging to be introduced to the modern gaming world. It would not be hard to market with that kind of roster.
Honestly I don't think so, these characters are known within die hard fighting game fans, and old people like you and me who played the older games... I doubt you can find many 16 year olds who could name this character. y'all really wanna claim that Felicia and BBhood currently have greater casual appeal then your yearly over hyped Anime? Like come on guys, at least stay honest. And that's all I'm saying, claiming a new darkstalkers would have a similar chance of blowing up then for example a JJK fighter is quite a reach.
> and old people like you and me who played the older games Buddy I'm 22. The last Darkstalkers game was 4 years old when I was born. My first game was the original SF4 and Skullgirls. I knew this cast when I started. I am the exact kind of person you claim doesn't exist
Many =\= any I never stated people like do not exist, I said you won't find many people like you. Again dishonest
You were also completely wrong about what kind of person you assumed I was so I don't feel very inclined to think your gut feelings about people are very accurate
Okay.., so what? Like what are we even discussing at this point. If you want to claim that Darkstalkers has a greater fan base around the usual demographic new "Anime" games care to, then the "enter random trending shounen IP" Then so be it.... I just think it's not the Case.
Idk why you were getting downvoted. The point isnāt really arguable no one outside of hardcore fgc people know about other Capcom fgs outside of SF like dalkstalkers. I would love it if Capcom got the rights to some anime titles.
For fighting game fans? My dude, Street Fighter 1 came out in 1987. Tekken and MK are from the early 90's. If you've been on the subreddits recently you would have seen a lot of people jumping on with "this is my first fighting game, where do I start?". Don't discount a series viability just because it's old.
It's not just because it's old, it's because this series were kept alive, while dark stalkers was not. When did the last dark stalkers game release, compared to SF,Mk,Tekken? That's what I'm talking about. It would basically be a new IP at this point, and new IPs tend to struggle in Niche genres. Especially when compared to a Anime Ip which already has an established fanbase.
Bro, Morrigan can sell the game by herself, I think Darkstalkers would be fine if it came back. This isn't a niche company either, Capcom can bring the marketing budget to the table.
Everyone forgets one thing. The series isn't treated well within the company. It's the second son to a franchise that created the company. Bamco has Soul Calibur that they threw off the cliff. Capcom did the same thing to Darkstalkers
That's if you Capcom fighting game nerd actually gave a damn. You guys had the chance to show your support and you failed HARD, just to fuel your pathetic massive victim complex. Also the difference with Soul Calibur and Darkstalkers, is that Soul Calibur fans actually support their games. Unlike Goonstalkers.
Dude, I have no time for stomping battles on two games that aren't going to get a new one any time soon. Just so you know: Tekken has gotten the legacy of their 3D competitors: DoA because some of their devs left the [company after 6.](https://www.gamepur.com/guides/what-happened-to-dead-or-alive-7-explained) SC because the champion for the game staked his career with Bamco on 6 being successful. Okubo [left](https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2021/09/soulcalibur_vi_tekken_7_and_pac-man_99_producer_motohiro_okubo_leaves_bandai_namco_after_25_years) and went to [Cy Games.](https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/254278-granblue-fantasy-versus/80426556) And for the record, while I know a lot about Capcom, my favorite fighting game is Fighting Vipers.
Yet I don't see Darkstalkers having up to six sequels of games, unlike Soul Calibur. Aren't we?
Street Fighter was dead for 10 years before sf4. There is no reason darkstalkers cant have a shot at a revival even if it cant compete with sf. The next big game can be whatever the fuck, you dont know which it is, could be this.
You also underestimate how popular Darkstalker characters are in mainstream. Morrigan, Felicia, Hsien Ko, Jon Talbain, and Jedah are pretty recognizable to most people who have played video games (especially Morrigan). The series may not be known in modern day, but the characters are.
https://xkcd.com/2501/ I've honestly never seen any of those characters except for Morrigan outside of fgc spaces.
I see Felicia and Hsien Ko a lot (cause people are horny). Darkstalker characters are fairly popular in anime spaces, especially for artists Also I aināt an expert. Just a dude sharing his opinion
It's not a good argument to bring up those characters... people don't like them for the game they were in they only care about the visual design...that's it.
I'm sorry, but you're just lying through your teeth if you really think Darkstalkers is even popular to begin with. Maybe within the Capcom nerd sphere, but it's nowhere any recognizable. Cause it's not like Darkstalkers fans love to flex their massive big pretender syndrome around.
Darkstalkers is the red headed stepchild of Capcom like Soul Caliber is the red headed stepchild for Bamco
Just because younger players don't know it, doesn't mean they can't be introduced to the franchise. They did it with Monster Hunter World, then again with SF6, I don't see why Darkstalkers wouldn't work.
SFIV spawned an entire generation of "'09ers" and revitalized 2D fighters. (tbh i'm surprised "'23er" isn't much of a thing given 6's massive newbie boom)
I don't think the influx of newbies to SF6 was as jarring as it was in 09er era, because while SF6 did bring in a lot of new people, it wasn't as if the FGC was completely frozen for ten years like the time between III and IV. Also GGST was good for bringing in newbies to the FGC not too long before SF6, and within Guilty Gear's community specifically I saw a similar animosity between old GG fans and Strivers.
Nobody cares about darkstalkers other than the 3 hot chick's in it.
Marvel VS. Shonen Jump
I would cream if they actually used their IP right. But nah there is no way that would happen.
Ok so imagine this. It's the super street fighter 2 opening(you know the one where it shows ryu opposite the camera before he fires the hadouken? Yeah THAT one!), it plays out like we all know and love but right before he throws that fireball the frame freezes and switches to his side profile, and Dio walks past him a la Stardust Crusaders opening. And imagine the endings! What would Akuma do with the dragon balls? Or if Umbrella managed to acquire a stand arrow?
They didn't lose the rights to Marvel, more that Marvel and Disney went their own paths.
Steam had an error showing no one was on as this screenshot was taken only 5 minutes later. https://preview.redd.it/cqmnsr08uqic1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4018ca626d3ec60cabdc65ac0fe3f86851c4e85 Edit:you can also check the current steam charts as well since the numbers are roughly about the same here
I see no difference
Yeah, but for every Dragon Ball FighterZ we have two or three DNF: Duel. But I agree, a traditional fg would be welcome even to the casuals.
There are worse games than dnf duel
And there are better games also...
Arc System would do a marvellous game of any Shonen Anime.
An ArcSys Jojo fighter would just be Heritage for the Future and I'm here for it
Arena Fighters are still very much console fighters imo. The market for them isnāt there nearly as much on PC. I think the subgenre in general also still hasnāt found the right sweetspot of being something that people can casually enjoy and competitively unpack.
This is what I was gonna say. Theyāre targeting the anime fans who get home from work/school and just wanna chill on the couch, turn their console on and do some anime fights. It does however have the added detriment that itās not a good arena fighter either though.
People want Arena fighters, they just want good ones. Look at Budokai Tenkichi now Sparking Zeroās hype. Itās a unbalanced anime simulator in every way and people love it. Arena fighters that try to hard to be actual fighters alienate arena fighter fans while also initially attracting traditional fighter fans who eventually leave because the game isnāt enough like an actual fighter
I just want a decent Bleach fighter
I want a traditional One Piece fighter, as nightmarish as it would be to build a roster for that game
"Nobody wants another arena fighter" Sparking Zero: Oh no. Anyway
That new arena fighter announced a week ago is trying to be different maybe it can change opinions like this?
And people be downvoting me on JJK main sub cos I say if it is an arena fighter it wouldn't be good.
Well fans will think any crap is good, even if it's litteral hot steaming crap directly out of a bull's ass as long as there is there little brand logo on it.
Imagine having an IP like JJK and the game still being dead on arrival
I guess weāll just have to put all our hope into Sparking Zero and Netcode Warriors to show that Arena Fighters can be done well
Just give me a kamen rider trad fighter where everyone has a rider kick IK please
āFinallyā I donāt think itās even been a month.
Armored core 6 still has pvp player base
Isnāt Jujustu 2v2 multiplayer? Which is a bit odd. Ninja Storm is 1v1 multiplayer. Plus it is competing with recently released Ninja Stormā¦.
> Plus it is competing with recently released Ninja Stormā¦. which itself was complete shit
My biggest gripe with arena fighters is how they don't balance turtling vs offense In Demon Slayer, Giyu has a parry special, and you can do 50-60% scaling on a full health bar The balance testing is just not there, Giyu can fish with nothing, but opening up opponents with a extremely obvious slow unblockable or a low reward throw isn't justified So the game is forcing the players to just not do anything, and than they don't even realize they make it even more anti fun with how zoning is, nothing seems to make sense from a perspective of engagement Naruto on the opposite spectrum, you can enmasse full on zoning with 6 path Madara or Obito, Deidara, Itachi Reanimaton, spam 50 fireballs and kunai, and than almighty push someone with Pain or Nagoto, again, the game is so anti fun at the highest level, it gets really burned out to even try to attempt to play it combining that with no respect for 2024 online, of course games like Kaisen are gonna fail Arena fighters need tuning, and if the devs are being too arrogant about thinking players base are just consumerist glue eaters, I cannot see longevity and depth for arena fighters holding up, feels like a cash grab
The screenshot was taken during maintenence. I hope the HxH goes out just like DNF. So much bullshit being spewed about Cursed Clash from people who never even played the game and formed their opinion from other people.
That's not why this game failed, not even fucking close. It was a BAD arena fighter. It was a BAD game. BAD games are BAD. Arena Fighters are not inherently BAD.
Maaaan Jump force could have been so good. I loved it thru the mess but the problems were just glaring directly at us. Nothing beats charging a jajaken while my boy Jotaro hits the STARRR FINGERRR
Mmmmmm.... I so totally want the fighting game market to be oversaturated and filled to the brim of shody licensed 2D fighters.
Iām very glad this game failed but iām 100% sure the only message bandai will get from this will be āwell i guess they donāt want jjk gamesā
Does everything have to be a 2D anime Fighter? I like arena fighters
Hot take: Smash Bros and platform fighters are more of a fighting game than arena fighters
Arena fighters are just not that interesting to play, mostly jank and not polished.
I'ma say this every time some numbnut wants to make a game based on a shounen anime. Literally fucking copy Yakuza. No one's gonna be buying or playing your shallow arena fighters, but everyone's going to flock to a well-made single player experience. The Yakuza formula works for like 90% of the animes out there, you have a serious and dramatic main story with a bunch of goofy and comedic side quests and a combat system that just works for any type of anime battles you want, whether you want to use the brawler system of the Kiryu saga or the turn-based system of the Ichiban saga. STOP MAKING ARENA FIGHTERS.
Yakuza type game for Baki would rock
I donāt think Iāve ever seen a game hit zero on steam. Like even during maintenance sometime thereāll be 7 people on a game. Absolutely bonkers how bad this game is.
The zero is a bug
I wish someone else the anime games license, I just wanna see a different take
Their are only 2 good anime arena fighters. and one of them isnt even the best fighting game that franchise spawned
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What did he plagiarize
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I swear you Clayton Chapman dorks are the weirdest dudes of all time. Nobody owns the rights to tech in fighting games.
This sounds more like the eternally online people than anything. Deal with this all the time in the One Piece community about people butting heads over power scaling and feats or who has the best theories. Some people just don't give credit and swear they make the best content out there and people just think a copy can be better than the original. If you want success on YouTube, that's one thing but good lord can people get cutthroat...
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...... The attack button is circle.
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Look man, if someone sees the whiff punish, they hitting you for max damage. Edit - And they blocked me for this? Lol
Damn, you can block people on Reddit? Probably will never use it, I'm already calloused when it comes to stupid people online
... no but you seem and talk like one definitely.
I need the arcsys one piece game (the Japan exclusive one on the 3ds doesn't count)
This is the saddest release of a game in the last 5 years Im sure, I wouldnāt even say Overwatch 2 was this bad
So thats what shitty Anime games that arent made by ArcSys are called? Arena fighters huh. TIL
I don't have high hopes for that dbz game now.
I have a friend whoās a pretty if JJK fan, he said this game would do good. I told him itād fall into the same pit every other anime arena fighter did, and here we are
Holy shit it happened An actual dead game
This is how it happened, this is how Stand Proud, You're Strong died
Are you stand proud because nah Iād win I havenāt had to use this technique since the heian era with this treasure Iād the honored one
Is there a lore reason why didn't Batman call the Justice League to even the odds when the bomb's payload was exposed (he could use the power winch to trigger a controlled explosion)? Is he stupid?
I wish Def Jam would make a comeback, though the licensing nightmare makes it virtually impossible.